This is from the Blu-ray forum (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=14111&page=14):

'The thing with listing Disney titles is this. I was at the Annual shareholders meeting for the Walt Disney Company. one of the items discussed was Disney's anticipation and Mr. Eiger/Iger however you spell the guys name and his statement that Disney is looking to release on both formats in the Hi Def arena to help increase rev streams for their shareholders myself being one of them.'


Sounds promising - IMO if true that could pretty much finalize the format war by itself!

makes sense.... because they already are releasing movies on the xbox live marketplace.

Well, then they need to jump on board.....and soon! :D

if this is true,i think blu ray is gone.

We already have a large discussion thread about the next studio would be? to go neutral

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=893360

If that eventuates, then HD DVD will for the first time since launch hold the majority of studios - including an even split of the major 6;

HD: Warner, Universal, Paramount, Disney
BD: Warner, Sony, Fox, Disney


This scenario would mean that the war then becomes Universal-Paramount versus Sony-Fox.

Pretty easy to pick a winner there.

It depends on how much cash Microsoft and Toshiba want to spend on a format that few want to buy! Dream on.

Depends on who "over there" said that (I seldom venture over there, no need), but if that came from the likes of say, beatleboy, pardon me if I chalk it up to pure crap-ola from another one of those phantom friends...they have always either given "insider tips" that can actually already easily be found elewhere on the web, or are just out and out wrong everytime...BUT, if its true, well good for HD DVD, but I really could live without Dizney anyway, think to this day I've only bought one of thier flicks, The Incredibles.

We already have a large discussion thread about the next studio would be? to go neutral

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=893360

I thought that thread was about which studio would be next to go 'Exclusive'?

It depends on how much cash Microsoft and Toshiba want to spend on a format that few want to buy! Dream on.Did I miss something, or wasn't it a 59%:41% split in total sales the last time I checked?!

I will believe it when it happens, no since talking about it now because it's all rumors and speculations. All it does is breed miscontent and that is something we do not need.

BUT, if its true, well good for HD DVD, but I really could live without Dizney anyway, think to this day I've only bought one of thier flicks, The Incredibles.
The thing is that parents buy Disney for their kids - that is the big market. So Disney would have a significant impact on sales.

It depends on how much cash Microsoft and Toshiba want to spend on a format that few want to buy! Dream on.

Just 24 hours ago if someone would have posted that they think Paramount will walk away from Blu-Ray for whatever reasons, the Blu crowd would have said they were crazy. So it looks like dreams do come true. Dream on, indeed.

The thing is that parents buy Disney for their kids - that is the big market. So Disney would have a significant impact on sales.

And for Disney the kid angle means the need for cheaper players is more critical and the interactivity (including web enhancement) is critical to gain a closer relationship with the kids to sell them more stuff. This is all speculation, but it seems to me that Disney would benefit from the HD-DVD advantages more so than Paramount. But time will tell.

It depends on how much cash Microsoft and Toshiba want to spend on a format that few want to buy! Dream on.

"Few want to buy" lol

How do those grapes taste? Sour?!?

i believe that two studios are gonna move shortly ,1 (major)will go exclusive and 2 (smaller) will go neutral !!!

By '1' you mean Warner I presume?

And by '2' would one of them be Lionsgate?

2 competing format

both here to stay for the long haul!

Iger said he was considering on supporting HD DVD too a year ago at the annual shareholders meeting, so I'm sure it was more to please the shareholders than anything substantial.

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=16554

...so I'm sure it was more to please the shareholders than anything substantial.

Maybe I'm way off - but isn't pleasing shareholders like really something substantial?!

I say by next christmas (2008) that they'll be neutral.

Substantial as in something actually coming true out of that. Of course he's going to say anything that will reassure and please the investors. But anything goes after they leave the conference room. This is the second year in a row that he's mentioned something like that, yet no other sign of Disney creeping neutrality. It's going to be a while before anything HD DVD will come out of Disney, considering they've got that whole Blu-ray tour going on.

Not very likely.

A Disney spokesman said the company might expand a new campaign to sell consumers on Blu-ray, and Fox announced plans to flood the market with 29 new Blu-ray releases

Full article here for your speculations:New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/technology/21disney.html?ei=5088&en=d4e1f285e2f41437&ex=1345348800&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1187698143-B5wO3L/F+4r1NyAsum87vQ)

It depends on how much cash Microsoft and Toshiba want to spend on a format that few want to buy! Dream on.

You've said that you've sold all of your HD DVD titles and only use your HD DVD player for upconverting SD DVDs, right? So why do you still post here?

Sold all of my HD DVDs and replaced them with Blu-ray editions. I will wait for the Warner titles that are MIA and will wait till hell freezes over, if need be, for Universal.
Another AVS member even offered to buy the HD A1 from me. But I would rather use it as an upconverting DVD player and reserve the PS3 for Blu-ray playback. If anyone would like to pay me $250 for an HD DVD player with all the current firmware upgrades I would sell. That is half of what I paid for it. Any takers? I didn't think so.
If you're not here for HD DVD, move on.

Disney will be nuetral . This is something that has been known since last year.
Sony was stupid enough to pay for exclusivity too early on this game.
Now is the time when the studios are going to start showing their true interest.

And for Disney the kid angle means the need for cheaper players is more critical and the interactivity (including web enhancement) is critical to gain a closer relationship with the kids to sell them more stuff. This is all speculation, but it seems to me that Disney would benefit from the HD-DVD advantages more so than Paramount. But time will tell.

I would also think that the Combo would be something that would benefit Disney the most. Being able to watch in the MiniVan, or the kids bedroom would be a feature that a majority of disney purchasers would utilize.

About as likely as Universal going neutral...keep dreaming.

Disney will be nuetral . This is something that has been known since last year.
Sony was stupid enough to pay for exclusivity too early on this game.
Now is the time when the studios are going to start showing their true interest.

I think the euphoria from the Paramount announcement went to your head...

I think the euphoria from the Paramount announcement went to your head...
I think you should go back to the BD area, where you belong...

i believe that two studios are gonna move shortly ,1 (major)will go exclusive and 2 (smaller) will go neutral !!!

Would you please give some clues as to your affiliation to validate some credibility?

Um, interesting not much more than speculation at the moment.
It would not be the first time Disney has said they might support HD.
If HD has a successful blitzkrieg this 4thQ Disney may look seriously at them.

The most interesting thing from their personal observations is the comments about Sony and Disney exclusives being available in Europe on HD. I wonder if that has impact on their (House of mouse's) thinking?

i believe that two studios are gonna move shortly ,1 (major)will go exclusive and 2 (smaller) will go neutral !!!

If, and that is a a big IF, this is backed by any evidence, I suspect Paramount would have been the big studio to go exclusive. If it wasn't Paramount I'd find it hard to believe that HD DVD could sway another major studio to go exclusive in a week, unless.... It is possible that besides a monetary payoff Paramount received inside information that we as consumers don't have. It wouldn't be beyond the major companies to have more access to retail sales figures than we do. They know the real story. Perhaps aside from any monetary payouts, Paramount sees the attach rate, less players (including PS3) selling hardly any less titles. This means to them that PS3 owners are not buying as many titles, hence the war is more even than it appears on the surface with number of players sold. Selling more titles is the ultimate goal, so if an HD DVD owner buys two titles for every one they'd have sold on Blu Ray it will even the gap. Companies are not stupid, if HD DVD was to show a great potential in increased revenue (say a million Chinese HD DVD players for the fall season selling through), if contracts preventing a studio from releasing another format they won't back away from the potential revenue be it Disney, Warner or Fox, unless Sony was to pay them more than the expected revenue to stay Blu Ray exclusive.

Weinstein is you best bet to go neutral, they have a smaller catalog and might release on Blu Ray to shore up revenue, it wouldn't exactly be a dumb move. As far as the second smaller studio to go neutral that is a harder guess.

makes sense.... because they already are releasing movies on the xbox live marketplace.

yup, it's possible

Um, interesting not much more than speculation at the moment.
It would not be the first time Disney has said they might support HD.
If HD has a successful blitzkrieg this 4thQ Disney may look seriously at them.

The most interesting thing from their personal observations is the comments about Sony and Disney exclusives being available in Europe on HD. I wonder if that has impact on their (House of mouse's) thinking?

I could be quite wrong--and would like to be wrong here--but I think Disney is too stubborn (and too worried about piracy) to go neutral. They would probably be the last studio to be Blu-ray exclusive, if it came to that.

Weinstein is you best bet to go neutral, they have a smaller catalog and might release on Blu Ray to shore up revenue, it wouldn't exactly be a dumb move. As far as the second smaller studio to go neutral that is a harder guess.

Definitely true for Weinstein... especially since they have an exclusive deal with Blockbuster for rental of their DVDs. It was long suspected that the BB/blu-ray announcement would impact their status. (That's assuming that BB maintains their position... something I'm pretty convinced they have to be reconsidering.)

Starz or Lionsgate would be the next logical options for neutrality. Assuming that sales of HD DVDs (and players) remain brisk through Q4, I don't see any logic in maintaining an exclusive BD relationship for them.


We'll see... this is going to be a really fun Q4. I think we're going to see a LOT of changes going into 2008.

Um, interesting not much more than speculation at the moment.
It would not be the first time Disney has said they might support HD.
If HD has a successful blitzkrieg this 4thQ Disney may look seriously at them.

The most interesting thing from their personal observations is the comments about Sony and Disney exclusives being available in Europe on HD. I wonder if that has impact on their (House of mouse's) thinking?

Chances=Zero to none.

Sony would never ever let this happen.

Definitely true for Weinstein... especially since they have an exclusive deal with Blockbuster for rental of their DVDs. It was long suspected that the BB/blu-ray announcement would impact their status. (That's assuming that BB maintains their position... something I'm pretty convinced they have to be reconsidering.)

Starz or Lionsgate would be the next logical options for neutrality. Assuming that sales of HD DVDs (and players) remain brisk through Q4, I don't see any logic in maintaining an exclusive BD relationship for them.


We'll see... this is going to be a really fun Q4. I think we're going to see a LOT of changes going into 2008.

Doesn't Viacom own BB? If so, what a mess!

Chances=Zero to none.

Sony would never ever let this happen.
And Sony let Paramount happen?

Disney is a stubborn company, they have a monopoly on their unique brand image. In the end it the companies that will decide whats best form them not Sony or whatever format is being pimped. Sooner or later it is going to dawn on these Studios that Sony is their competitor not their friend.

The way I see it is Sony gains from Disney's support and Disney really gets nothing out of it. The revenue from blu sales can't be much. In exchange Sony and panasonic get to use Disney's image.

The only thing keeping Disney from going neutral in my opinion, is Steve Jobs ego battle with Bill Gates. He's the largest shareholder the company has and loves to undermine Microsoft any chance he gets. Thats all good, but sooner or later Disney is going to want a piece of the HD DVD pie. They've never exactly been bashful when it comes to marketing a product.;)

Doesn't Viacom own BB? If so, what a mess!

I think they sold their interest some time in the last few years (?)
I think Sony has more to do with them now. And that new download service BlockBuster just bought in to.

I think they sold their interest some time in the few years (?)
I think Sony has more to do with them now. And that new download service BlockBuster just bought in to.


Okees! thanks!

I just wish that one format or the other would win out as soon as possible.....Knowing my luck I have chosen more HDDVD movies over Blu-Ray so far about 15 HDDVD and about 5 Blu-Ray.....I just dont want to keep buying for both only to have 1 fail.....Thats why Im so hesitate about buying any HD movies right now!!!

BUT IF BLU-RAY were to FAIL then I would still have my PS3 for gaming and Internet browsing!!So in many ways I hope HDDVD is the winning format!!!

The only thing keeping Disney from going neutral in my opinion, is Steve Jobs ego battle with Bill Gates. He's the largest shareholder the company has and loves to undermine Microsoft any chance he gets. Thats all good, but sooner or later Disney is going to want a piece of the HD DVD pie. They've never exactly been bashful when it comes to marketing a product.;)

well I was reading some intresting bits from the HD-DVD steering commitee. Mind you Disney still votes unlike Sony which has abstained since... oh 2004.

And they say MS paid paramount of heftly.... The same probbaly could be said about Sony and Disney.

if this is true,i think blu ray is gone.

Why would Blu-ray be gone? They would still have exclusive support from the likes of 20th Century Fox, Lionsgate, and of course Sony themselves. The only way I can see a format dying is if one format got all the major studio support.

I don't think Steve would mind receiving some money from Bill. They do have the utmost respect for each other, regarding their respective companies. Sure, Steve sure does poke fun at MS, but it's all in good nature. He knows that the whole world isn't going to adopt Mac OSX. It's never going to become as ubiquitous as Windows is. That's why Apple has expanded its focus onto communications (iPhone) and music (iPod/iTunes).

You've said that you've sold all of your HD DVD titles and only use your HD DVD player for upconverting SD DVDs, right? So why do you still post here?



If you're not here for HD DVD, move on.

+1

Why would Blu-ray be gone? They would still have exclusive support from the likes of 20th Century Fox, Lionsgate, and of course Sony themselves. The only way I can see a format dying is if one format got all the major studio support.

With the hardware pricing advantage HD DVD has, it would just be a matter of time. Consumers have already shown that although they like the PS3, they don't like the high-priced standalone BD players. If enough consumers continue to buy the lower-priced HD DVD players, Fox and Lionsgate will most assuredly begin to release on the format to avoid lost revenue. Sony by itself is not a big enough studio to keep people from buying a format.

QED

With the hardware pricing advantage HD DVD has, it would just be a matter of time. Consumers have already shown that although they like the PS3, they don't like the high-priced standalone BD players. If enough consumers continue to buy the lower-priced HD DVD players, Fox and Lionsgate will most assuredly begin to release on the format to avoid lost revenue. Sony by itself is not a big enough studio to keep people from buying a format.

QED

You do realize that prices aren't permanent? The gap is shrinking at an extremely fast rate. By the end of this year, finalized spec (yes, finally! haha) blu-ray players will be about $299 retail and HD DVD players will probably be around $199 retail. It's only about 4 months away. Not much time for any drastic changes to the install base of either format. This format war is definitely interesting. It's a fierce battle for sure.

You do realize that prices aren't permanent? The gap is shrinking at an extremely fast rate. By the end of this year, finalized spec (yes, finally! haha) blu-ray players will be about $299 retail and HD DVD players will probably be around $199 retail.

Is that finalized Blu-Ray spec 1.1 or 2.0?;)

Actually, I'd say that the price gap has held steady for quite some time, perhaps even gotten worse. The gap is 50%, i.e., $299 is 50% more than $199. It used to be $599 vs. $899 - again, about a 50% gap. Yes, the raw $$ gap is smaller, but 50% more is still 50% more.

This format war is definitely interesting. It's a fierce battle for sure.

Very true. Watching this is almost as good as some of the movies that we SHOULD be watching!

Disney - Neutral by Xmas?
Too early!
They would have to put HD DVD into their 4Q plans, like yesterday.
Yet, if sales of $200US HD DVD players do sky rocket in the 4Q,
maybe 2Q of '08 (announcement at CES). JMO!

I think part of Paramount's deal was that they saw fully functional BD players (the ones that match HDDVD's interactivity and networking) were going to be very expensive and weren't really going to be available until the middle of next year. Then there would be several generations of BD players that couldn't do same part of the BD spec. No matter how attached to BD one is, they have to see that is a mess.

Oh ****! Paramount's CTO, Alan Bell said everything I just said.

The only thing keeping Disney from going neutral in my opinion, is Steve Jobs ego battle with Bill Gates. He's the largest shareholder the company has and loves to undermine Microsoft any chance he gets. Thats all good, but sooner or later Disney is going to want a piece of the HD DVD pie. They've never exactly been bashful when it comes to marketing a product.;)


What you wrote does not make too much sense now that Disney decided to do bussiness with Microsoft via XBox Live.
I guess you are not aware of the news. Right now they have a great list of Disney titles available to buy on the XBox live market.

Hey, let's all start rumors based purely on conjecture, because we're all big Hollywood players with insider information. Then we can call anyone who doesn't agree with our creation an idiot...

This is old news from 2006:

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060313-6374.html

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=16554


I hope that Disney does publish their movies on HD DVD. They are the only Blu-ray exclusive studio that I really care about.

Anyone who thinks Disney is going neutral ANY TIME soon is a fool. Lets take a look at a few simple facts. Steve Jobs owns a majority share in Disney. Steve Jobs also runs Apple. Apple is a "Supporting Member" of the BDA.

Why would Steve allow one company Apple to support a format that he is not going to support with his other company?

Use simple logic.

I also doubt Disney would go neutral......not anytime soon atleast.

I think part of Paramount's deal was that they saw fully functional BD players (the ones that match HDDVD's interactivity and networking) were going to be very expensive and weren't really going to be available until the middle of next year. Then there would be several generations of BD players that couldn't do same part of the BD spec. No matter how attached to BD one is, they have to see that is a mess.I think there's probably some truth to that. But neither BD-J functionality, player prices, nor media prices are fixed; all presumably will mature. I just think maybe Paramount decided it wouldn't mature quickly enough; took some incentives to go back to the "safer" format (more mature); and have another look at some point in the future when some of these issues were resolved or answered, one way or the other.

Anyone who thinks Disney is going neutral ANY TIME soon is a fool. Lets take a look at a few simple facts. Steve Jobs owns a majority share in Disney. Steve Jobs also runs Apple. Apple is a "Supporting Member" of the BDA.

Why would Steve allow one company Apple to support a format that he is not going to support with his other company?

Use simple logic.

Jobs does not own "a majority share in Disney". When Disney bought Pixar Studios, Jobs was offered a lot of shares and became "the largest shareholder at Disney". He also sits on their board of directors. In both cases, Jobs is one voice of many; albeit a loud and respected voice.

Disney is a movie studio and selling movies is their bread and butter. Disney will go nuetral if market conditions demand it. We're still in the early stages of the HD format war, so it's hard to say who/what/when will happen next.

reference: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_06/b3970001.htm

I think Disney has been pretty stauch in their support for BD; and I don't expect them to go neutral anytime soon. OTOH I'm not too sure that Jobs would even try to influence them one way or the other, Apple has been awfully quiet of late on their futur BD plans.

Disney and fox will not go neutral as fox they what region coding and BD+ on there discs HD DVD has no region coding on there discs

Thats all good, but sooner or later Disney is going to want a piece of the HD DVD pie. They've never exactly been bashful when it comes to marketing a product.;)

Is it me, or did you just toss a dwarf pun into a Disney thread? Well done!

Neutral by Xmas? Doubtful.

Neutral by sometime next year? It wouldn't surprise me.

blu ray will be the one at the end

blu ray will be the one at the end

...of their rope?

Yes, I expect so!

:D

...of their rope?

Yes, I expect so!

:D

what do you think

I don't think Disney will go neutral. I would be shocked if they did. I would also be extremely happy. Hopefully they do though.

I could be quite wrong--and would like to be wrong here--but I think Disney is too stubborn (and too worried about piracy) to go neutral. They would probably be the last studio to be Blu-ray exclusive, if it came to that.
That does not make sense - as all current Blu-ray releases can be decrypted.

Fox was too worried and immediately stopped releasing until BD+; however Disney did not - they kept full steam ahead (and by doing so single-handedly saved Blu-ray from sinking).

So if Disney's sole reason for backing Blu-ray is piracy-prevention then what's with the hypocritical behaviour?!

(not to mention the fact that BD+ is less robust than AACS from a security perspective)

I don't think Disney will go neutral. I would be shocked if they did. I would also be extremely happy. Hopefully they do though.

:)

This is from the Blu-ray forum (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=14111&page=14):
'The thing with listing Disney titles is this. I was at the Annual shareholders meeting for the Walt Disney Company. one of the items discussed was Disney's anticipation and Mr. Eiger/Iger however you spell the guys name and his statement that Disney is looking to release on both formats in the Hi Def arena to help increase rev streams for their shareholders myself being one of them.' Sounds promising - IMO if true that could pretty much finalize the format war by itself!
It's Robert Iger (http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/bios/robert_iger.html) and I sent him a letter (couldn't find his email address) a few months ago pleading with him to go neutral. Sadly, he hasn't gotten back to me...yet. ;)

If he writes back (unlikely) I will let you know.

He's hoping your predication is correct!

Jobs does not own "a majority share in Disney". When Disney bought Pixar Studios, Jobs was offered a lot of shares and became "the largest shareholder at Disney". He also sits on their board of directors. In both cases, Jobs is one voice of many; albeit a loud and respected voice.

Disney is a movie studio and selling movies is their bread and butter. Disney will go nuetral if market conditions demand it. We're still in the early stages of the HD format war, so it's hard to say who/what/when will happen next.

reference: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_06/b3970001.htm

On January 24, 2006, Disney announced that it had agreed to buy Pixar for approximately $7.4 billion in an all-stock deal. Following Pixar shareholder approval, the acquisition was completed May 5, 2006. The transaction catapults Jobs, who was the majority shareholder of Pixar with 50.1%, to Disney's largest individual shareholder with 7% and a new seat on its board of directors. Jobs' new Disney holdings outpace holdings belonging to ex-CEO Eisner, the previous top shareholder who still held 1.7%, and Disney Director Emeritus Roy E. Disney who held almost 1% of the corporation's shares. Roy Disney's criticisms of Eisner included the soured Pixar relationship and accelerated Eisner's ouster.

The largest single institution share in Disney is FIDELITY with 4.8%......

Look how Jobs brought Apple back, it was not with a new computer or OS but by providing the entire package. Do you really think that he is going to break this? (while i know he does want everything on-demand over the internet a-la iTunes - this will never happen as long as the MPAA exists). It is all tied together.

Also, Disney = Kids. Kids + HDDVD = :( (no protective hard coat)

If you see Apple roll out of the BDA then Disney will probably follow.

I was onboard with HDDVD originally. I moved to BRD recently and have not looked back. At this point I really do not care who wins but I just want this entire thing to end.

I will believe it when it happens, no since talking about it now because it's all rumors and speculations. All it does is breed miscontent and that is something we do not need.

No Sense, not since. Sorry to correct you.

On January 24, 2006, Disney announced that it had agreed to buy Pixar for approximately $7.4 billion in an all-stock deal. Following Pixar shareholder approval, the acquisition was completed May 5, 2006. The transaction catapults Jobs, who was the majority shareholder of Pixar with 50.1%, to Disney's largest individual shareholder with 7% and a new seat on its board of directors. Jobs' new Disney holdings outpace holdings belonging to ex-CEO Eisner, the previous top shareholder who still held 1.7%, and Disney Director Emeritus Roy E. Disney who held almost 1% of the corporation's shares. Roy Disney's criticisms of Eisner included the soured Pixar relationship and accelerated Eisner's ouster.

The largest single institution share in Disney is FIDELITY with 4.8%......

Look how Jobs brought Apple back, it was not with a new computer or OS but by providing the entire package. Do you really think that he is going to break this? (while i know he does want everything on-demand over the internet a-la iTunes - this will never happen as long as the MPAA exists). It is all tied together.

Also, Disney = Kids. Kids + HDDVD = :( (no protective hard coat)

If you see Apple roll out of the BDA then Disney will probably follow.

I was onboard with HDDVD originally. I moved to BRD recently and have not looked back. At this point I really do not care who wins but I just want this entire thing to end.


Like you say. Jobs is the largest individual shareholder, which means he can profit the most if Disney goes neutral. More sales, more revenue, more money for Jobs. My logic on the protective disc if I was Disney:

Disney=Kids Kids + HDDVD= No protective coat= Good for disney, because mom will need to buy another copy for the kids=More money for Disney!

You assume Disney is in it for the consumer. Everything they do is so they can profit the most money. BD+ so less copying= More have to buy from Disney=MORE MONEY!

Disney, "Buy it now, because were locking it in the vault for the next 7 years, when we will release again and get you to buy it again!" = MORE MONEY for Disney. You get the picture now, Disney doesn't care about you. Like the insurance boss in The Incredibles says, "I don't care about your people, tell me what you are doing for our people, the board and stockholders"!

Seriously with the BD "protective coat" in an HD forum?? That is absolute garbage. HD DVDs have the same protection that standard DVDs do and DO NOT NEED A PROTECTIVE COAT. BluRay discs require the coating as the information would be easily compromised without additional protection. Just another added cost that somehow turned into a benefit by the monster spin machine we call Sony. You Blue fellas are reaching (again) !!