be it from JVC or Sony or both

UHP or Xenon (Xenon would cost 4-5x more)
2500ansi ideally for bright 300-450cm screens even after 500hrs
if possible native 15000:1 still (new panels exist, up to 40000:1)
iris would be nice (manual)
500:1 ansi contrast (lots of work to do there)

price: if possible in the $10K range

remember: a 2K DLP in digital cinemas with constant height screen gives a marvelous image yet it has only 2000:1 on off (but problably 500-600:1 ansi). absence of "black" bars helps a lot. lumens help a lot too ! (up to 25,000 lumens)

so now the race imho should be on:
LUMENS and ANSI CONTRAST; not on off exclusively.

Misters at JVC and Sony, the ball is in your camp :)

Digital2004
I doubt 3 panel lcos will ever give you 500 ANSI contrast. In that case we need a 4-panel approach which has already been done by SEOS.
In my mind we should forget xenon and uhp for high lumen lcos projectors and focus our dreams on lasers. I am pretty confident laser sources can give you the kind of lumen you want but at what cost?

be it from JVC or Sony or both

UHP or Xenon (Xenon would cost 4-5x more)
2500ansi ideally for bright 300-450cm screens even after 500hrs
if possible native 15000:1 still (new panels exist, up to 40000:1)
iris would be nice (manual)
500:1 ansi contrast (lots of work to do there)

price: if possible in the $10K range

remember: a 2K DLP in digital cinemas with constant height screen gives a marvelous image yet it has only 2000:1 on off (but problably 500-600:1 ansi). absence of "black" bars helps a lot. lumens help a lot too ! (up to 25,000 lumens)

so now the race imho should be on:
LUMENS and ANSI CONTRAST; not on off exclusively.

Misters at JVC and Sony, the ball is in your camp :)

Yes please,please,please,please.................

again, once one considers a constant height screen, the "issue" of black level vs the "black" bars becomes almost academic (black bars aside from the 'hand' test, being the most immediate element of comparison).
again the very exemple of digital cinema with 2K DLP from BARCO and CHRISTIE speaks for itself. i've seen recently TRANSFORMERS, PIRATES 3 and MI3. with "only" 2000:1 on off on those machine (but ansi 2x perhaps the LCOS ansi contrast and one ton of lumens).

it would be extremely marketing wise to work and release a 2000-2500ansi lumens machine based on JVC and SONY latest LCOS developments.

with UHP lamp(s) 'cause XENON would be too costly in terms of use.
and selectable lamp power modes and manual iris. so the versatility goes from 100" to 200" screens.
it would also fill the need for people who do diapo presentations etc.
and of course the never ending issue of lamp brigthness drop after only a few hundreds hours.

the dB noise : well hush box and or technical booth/wall for fixed installations. progress has been made in cooling noise these years too.

One problem might be that many want lumen and a lowe noise level. I guess thay can not do both at the same time. It must be that lcos panels need more cooling than do dlp chips. This is not surprising. Canon is about to launch sx7 a sxga lcos projector with 3000+ ANSI lumen but the contrast is only 1000:1.

for a dedicated room with husbox and or rear technical wall it's no issue imho.
i didnt say 5000 or 10000 ansi lumens, then it's really loud in cooling

2000ANSI real (at 6500K-7000K) is doable at acceptable noise levels imho.

the QX1 did 10000 ansi lumens and it's a dila. so does the sony RX 4K but lol these a tanks.

the tricky part however remains the gain paint and the FTL. there's a short range of FTl that don't make visible the gain. above a certain level and you see the gain on the screen.
so the adjustable power/iris is important to fine tune this.

the screen research seems better in that field having seen the RUNCO 3DLP with 2700lumens (though i dont know exactly how much ftl was on screen) on a curved 350cm wide SR screen (ISE AMSTERDRAM / RUNCO ADA booth)
it looked great and punchy.

here's the kind of punch-brigthness from the HD1 on a 170" wide 1.4 mp screen. i have to peak the whites a bit to get the most possible "punch".
pj is in eco mode. (the difference with fullpower isn't very substantial butthe noise is).

Digital 2004, just get a C3X Pro with 4k lumens and 3DLP ;-)

1Million elements missing :)

they have now a 4Klumens ??? how much 2millions ? :)

SIM will be releasing a 1080p version of the C3X for ~$30K!

for a dedicated room with husbox and or rear technical wall it's no issue imho.
i didnt say 5000 or 10000 ansi lumens, then it's really loud in cooling

2000ANSI real (at 6500K-7000K) is doable at acceptable noise levels imho.

the QX1 did 10000 ansi lumens and it's a dila. so does the sony RX 4K but lol these a tanks.

the tricky part however remains the gain paint and the FTL. there's a short range of FTl that don't make visible the gain. above a certain level and you see the gain on the screen.
so the adjustable power/iris is important to fine tune this.

the screen research seems better in that field having seen the RUNCO 3DLP with 2700lumens (though i dont know exactly how much ftl was on screen) on a curved 350cm wide SR screen (ISE AMSTERDRAM / RUNCO ADA booth)
it looked great and punchy.

here's the kind of punch-brigthness from the HD1 on a 170" wide 1.4 mp screen. i have to peak the whites a bit to get the most possible "punch".
pj is in eco mode. (the difference with fullpower isn't very substantial butthe noise is).

Dude, those screen shots dont look good at all, thats not punch. Your machine is way out of cal, looks like contrast and color are way off. Get a cal disk and you will see far better images. The whites are killing the image due to the low ANSI. The HD-1 is capable of a better image than that. If you need help or advice just shout. The reflections are also killing your CR. The rear illumination on the seats is light heading to the screen that will kill your image as well. Looks like things are in the way of the screen as well, good idea to have a good FOV. Looks like some barrel distortion too, does the lens need adjusting? can you move it closer to the primary? I'm using an ISCO3 and have found distance to primary to be very important. Whats your beam angle and distance?

hi Cold
the digicam alterates the real visual perception but some scenes have amazing 3D. images are less peaky in real life
the problem is the brigthness and the ISCO. the ISCO 3 i know kills 30% of the ansi contrast (and on a DILA LCOS it's only 300:1 at best already). this is ISCO II so i think its even worse !!!
the on off fares better.
for that screen size one would need 2000 ansi lumens, like a C3X 250.
2000ansi lumens and 600:1 are a must and there JVC/SONY lack severly.

so i have to tweak it and make a compromise. no one would want 5FT on screen.
even SMPTE rec of 10-12FTM is too low !!! it should imho 20-25FTL.

the lights (ceiling) were turned on on purpose for one screenshot. indirect ceiling light are very screen friendly
compared to an inch of sunlight or light ceiling etc. ceiling is black velvet.

the image is much better on a 10ft max screen and untweaked pj with great greyscale etc (that i put in another memory).

it's a compromise but the result is nice believe me.

again for a 400cm screen and with the isco, one would need 2000ANSI lumens.
especially since the pj is almost ceiling installed (6.5ft) and at about 25ft from the screen.

yes there's stuff in front i'm doing room 2 so i had to put stuff somewhere :)
otherwise it's empty in front of rows

I hear you. Screenshots never seem to do anyones theatre justice.

There's no going back when you've been ISCOed

hi Cold

well, the ISCO harms ansi contrast (30% drop i've been told by reputable source). i didn"t see much difference in on off dark scenes contrast but yes on dailight scenes; one could say the ISCO fits better DLP whith its much higher ANSI contrast.

i lowered my HD1 ISCO installation and brigthness contrast have increased since it approaches eyes height and screen middle height. centering the pjlens to the ISCO is lens also PARAMOUNT.

have you seen the SIM2 C3X 1080 yet ?

Revisit the thread in the 20K forum you were posting in regarding that subject

That figure of 30%, you will be pleased to know, is utter crap. I have a reduction of way under 10% on my 5k. The 3K and 380 are all the same sort of figure. Those are proper calibration figures, so dont give up on the lens, position and angle are critical. Some people have had compatibilty issues with non 1080 certified lenses and some crap DIY installs. Are you saying you regained all your lost contrast by repositionong. I hope so.

I've also heard people talk about light loss. That is also total bs. Its alsmost unmeasurable. I think some are confusing the lumens drop due to the real estate increase. I've got the figure on my cal certificate... I cant recall exactly but its way below 1% ie totally invisible.

Wont see the new machine for a few weeks

Hope this helps.

PS amongst all the technical issues we are discussing, I rudely forgot to compliment you on a nice setup.

be it from JVC or Sony or both

UHP or Xenon (Xenon would cost 4-5x more)
2500ansi ideally for bright 300-450cm screens even after 500hrs
if possible native 15000:1 still (new panels exist, up to 40000:1)
iris would be nice (manual)
500:1 ansi contrast (lots of work to do there)

price: if possible in the $10K range

remember: a 2K DLP in digital cinemas with constant height screen gives a marvelous image yet it has only 2000:1 on off (but problably 500-600:1 ansi). absence of "black" bars helps a lot. lumens help a lot too ! (up to 25,000 lumens)

so now the race imho should be on:
LUMENS and ANSI CONTRAST; not on off exclusively.

Misters at JVC and Sony, the ball is in your camp :)- What LCoS has native CR 40,000:1?

- Why would it be lots of work or challenge to get ANSI CR 500:1 for LCoS (DILA or SXRD)?

It'll have to be LEDs in a new package.

150l/W leds are barely out of lab. 200l/W on the planning table.

Wait for mass production (2-3 years min.).

New lighting system around those (1-2 years min).

Design, testing, etc (1-2 years min).

(much of the above can proceed parallel, but it could still take 3-6 years).

Remove some lighting efficiency due to colour correction filters.

Then and only then we'll we have 20-22dB quiet projectors with 2000 ANSI lumens.

Until then, it's either the vacuum cleaner (28+ dB, usually way above 30) or the dim candle (600 ANSI calibrated).

Pick your poison >:)

I do not think LED or Laser will have enough light for a big screen until the product matures a few generations.

- What LCoS has native CR 40,000:1?



http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?item=605&pageID=1