I would not put silver on the K702, seems like they would be way to bright.

My D5000 are getting the Apuresound re-cable as we speak, I've been wanting to do it for a while and I finally just decided to nut up or shut up. I heard a pair at a meet a while back and was impressed with the improvements over my stock D5000.

Mogami 2534... it's what I had lying around. It was a fun exercise though (trying to keep single entry and modding the headband... then decided halfway through that I'm just gonna go dual entry instead. Don't get me wrong, you can hear an improvement... it's just not huge (especially for the amount of work)... but I still like it! ...this will be my closed 'phones for now... while I save up for my Denons... now contemplating going up from the D2000... as I want WOOD CUPS!Sweet! The 2534 is supposed to sound good. Is that what you've been using for the K702s also?

I would not put silver on the K702, seems like they would be way to bright.

My D5000 are getting the Apuresound re-cable as we speak, I've been wanting to do it for a while and I finally just decided to nut up or shut up. I heard a pair at a meet a while back and was impressed with the improvements over my stock D5000.Yeah I wouldn't put silver on the K702 based on everything I've read, I just meant that if you did, it should be a noticeable difference. The apuresound cables are supposed to be great, that will be awesome!

Lately I've been wanting to start recabling, but I'm starting to acquire so many headphones that I can't possibly afford to get nice cables for all of them, so I'm toying with the idea of basically recabling all of my headphones to be ~0.5-1 foot long, terminated in mini xlr 3 or 4 pin, then get one nice cable ~5-6 foot length cable that is terminated on one end in mini xlr 3 or 4 pin and 1/4" plug on the other. This way I could use the same headphone cable(s) for all my headphones. I then wouldn't feel as bad paying more for that 5-6 foot section since I can use it on more than one headphone.

There really isn't a stand alone dolby processor with a dedicated line out is there?

I spent a long time searching for what you described but no luck. I finally settled on the HK AVR 254. This can be had from ebay as a refurb for about $240 with shipping. As long as you have headphones connected to the AVR, you can run stereo phono cables from the audio out in the back to a headphone amp and enjoy DH processing. I verified this for being a real line out by turning the volume up and down on the receiver with no success - it can only be adjust with the headphone amp. I did this myself with the MixAmp with the MP3 jack on the back. The AVR 254 uses Dolby Headphone version 2 so if I remember correctly it utilizes the latest and more efficient DH2.

Sweet! The 2534 is supposed to sound good. Is that what you've been using for the K702s also?

Yeah I wouldn't put silver on the K702 based on everything I've read, I just meant that if you did, it should be a noticeable difference. The apuresound cables are supposed to be great, that will be awesome!

Lately I've been wanting to start recabling, but I'm starting to acquire so many headphones that I can't possibly afford to get nice cables for all of them, so I'm toying with the idea of basically recabling all of my headphones to be ~0.5-1 foot long, terminated in mini xlr 3 or 4 pin, then get one nice cable ~5-6 foot length cable that is terminated on one end in mini xlr 3 or 4 pin and 1/4" plug on the other. This way I could use the same headphone cable(s) for all my headphones. I then wouldn't feel as bad paying more for that 5-6 foot section since I can use it on more than one headphone.

If you're up to the task more power to you man! I know that I could not do it, I don't work well with small parts like that, changing opamps or tubes is about as much as I want to do:p

Sweet! The 2534 is supposed to sound good. Is that what you've been using for the K702s also?
Yes...

Lately I've been wanting to start recabling, but I'm starting to acquire so many headphones that I can't possibly afford to get nice cables for all of them, so I'm toying with the idea of basically recabling all of my headphones to be ~0.5-1 foot long, terminated in mini xlr 3 or 4 pin, then get one nice cable ~5-6 foot length cable that is terminated on one end in mini xlr 3 or 4 pin and 1/4" plug on the other. This way I could use the same headphone cable(s) for all my headphones. I then wouldn't feel as bad paying more for that 5-6 foot section since I can use it on more than one headphone.

Get one of these!
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/cafed6ee.jpg
^- Thats female 1/8th stereo to 3 pin male mini-xlr

I spent a long time searching for what you described but no luck. I finally settled on the HK AVR 254. This can be had from ebay as a refurb for about $240 with shipping. As long as you have headphones connected to the AVR, you can run stereo phono cables from the audio out in the back to a headphone amp and enjoy DH processing. I verified this for being a real line out by turning the volume up and down on the receiver with no success - it can only be adjust with the headphone amp. I did this myself with the MixAmp with the MP3 jack on the back. The AVR 254 uses Dolby Headphone version 2 so if I remember correctly it utilizes the latest and more efficient DH2.

That would be a very nice feature to have but I upgraded my receiver to a Denon AVR-988 about 6 months ago and am very very happy with it. I watch more movies than anything else so having something that would process lossless audio codecs was huge. Prior to that I was running the 5.1 analog out of my BD player and could never get the receiver to sound properly calibrated in that configuration.

I guess I'll just have to live with the mixamp until someone else puts out something to compete with it.

Damn you have a Bel Canto:eek: I always wanted to hear one of those, everything I've read has been very positive!
My Bel Canto DAC2 is also modded & balanced.. As I stated, as god as the SABRE32 is it doesn't embarrass it.. The BC does a great job at combating my amps brightness, & relaxes the highs a bit.. The SABre32 sounds a bit bright, neutral, & non musical... When you have a amp.DAC/headphones that are neutral with minimal colorization, the music becomes a bit less involving.. I actually depend the the songs colorization.. Since my gear itself practically doesn't have any.

Whoa whoa, I meant your old TV. Your 1980 POS. Actually any old SDTV vs HDTV. I would much rather have more pixels and worse black levels than SD and less pixels/detail. In general anyway.

Regarding using a good DAC for gaming.. how do you achieve this? Does it do 5.1? Or are you gaming in 2 channel / no mixamp? Or am I missing something with the way you connect it and maintain 5.1? Or do you have a receiver or something that does the dolby headphone and passes a digital signal of it out so you can use an external DAC?

Also, is it even worth it? The games I've played on the 360 don't seem to warrant more detail as I can hear compression artifacts even with the DT880s and D4? I suppose games with lossless soundtracks may be worth it, but I'm not sure how many there are for the 360 anyway.
I just connect my DAC to the console through optical, & RCA out to my amp.. I don't us dolby for that configuration. Getting a good dac is very much worth it IMO.. Especially a good, used, vintage model, which can better many of todays models..

Have you heard the Nuforce OPPO BDP-83se? I had an OPPO BDP-83 in my system for a couple months and loved it. Can't imagine what the higher end versions sound like. I heard the jump is just as big going from the oppo to the oppose,& the Nu force..Silly sally who has both, said the oppoSE sounds veiled in comparison. I might get mine done, since Nu force is located in my area.. Not to diss PS3 fans, but the oppo (with the right settings) is around 25% better in terms of PQ then the PS3 for BR. More 3d like, better clarity & definition, color saturation is deeper, blacks seem blacker.. Br always impressed me with the PS3, but I wasn't in the, this film looks so great on blu ray crowd.. Getting the oppo has changed my thinking a bit.. I just got commando.. & the opening scene is pristine, Arnolds face is ultra clear with every little facial nuance.. & this with a 1080i display, & only 26inches..

Not to diss PS3 fans, but the oppo (with the right settings) is around 25% better in terms of PQ then the PS3 for BR. More 3d like, better clarity & definition, color saturation is deeper, blacks seem blacker.. Br always impressed me with the PS3, but I wasn't in the, this film looks so great on blu ray crowd.. Getting the oppo has changed my thinking a bit.. I just got commando.. & the opening scene is pristine, Arnolds face is ultra clear with every little facial nuance.. & this with a 1080i display, & only 26inches..

Nice! ...now, to think that the PS3 was only a $600 player at the beginning... and now only $300. I'm impressed with it, but then again... I haven't seen anything else... and my TV is a puny 32" 720p display (that I don't get to use much, 'cause the kids hog it with their movies or PS3 games).:rolleyes: I'd LOVE to see your Oppo running on a 52" LED TV or something equally as great with some killer Audio gear to go with it.

Note: The HPX was killer for bass... but these Re-Cabled HD428S... BETTER! ...that is until you plug that STUIPID HPX-SS Cable into your PC... then I've NEVER heard headphones go that DEEP for bass... totally nauseating!

Nice! ...now, to think that the PS3 was only a $600 player at the beginning... and now only $300. I'm impressed with it, but then again... I haven't seen anything else... and my TV is a puny 32" 720p display (that I don't get to use much, 'cause the kids hog it with their movies or PS3 games).:rolleyes: I'd LOVE to see your Oppo running on a 52" LED TV or something equally as great with some killer Audio gear to go with it.

Note: The HPX was killer for bass... but these Re-Cabled HD428S... BETTER! ...that is until you plug that STUIPID HPX-SS Cable into your PC... then I've NEVER heard headphones go that DEEP for bass... totally nauseating!
The oppo is just as fast, but the PS3 still owns for firmware.. & is still a very good player..

Spending more time with the M50s. I wanna say just how much I love them. I LOVE THEM. They even sound awesome with the Fiio E5s Bass Boost option! No small feat.

They are my absolute fave headphones as of yet, and I wouldn't dare upgrade for another pair of closed headphones. They're that good for me. Price, comfort, fit, sq... all great. I'm 100% happy with them. Thanks to all who pushed me on getting these.

They are the ONLY headphones that I have worn that have the trifecta of comfort, fit, and right amount of clamp. I have worn these for hours and I don't get any fatigue whatsoever.

The piercing highs have also balanced out. No more issue there. <3

Spending more time with the M50s. I wanna say just how much I love them. I LOVE THEM. They even sound awesome with the Fiio E5s Bass Boost option! No small feat.

They are my absolute fave headphones as of yet, and I wouldn't dare upgrade for another pair of closed headphones. They're that good for me. Price, comfort, fit, sq... all great. I'm 100% happy with them. Thanks to all who pushed me on getting these.

They are the ONLY headphones that I have worn that have the trifecta of comfort, fit, and right amount of clamp. I have worn these for hours and I don't get any fatigue whatsoever.

The piercing highs have also balanced out. No more issue there. <3


Try them out with some Metal, Symphonic Metal, Pop, RnB, and Jazz for me.... and report back... I'm still looking for my perfect closed phone... I still think a Woodied Denon might be it... just felt a little heartbroken when I found out the D2000 shouldn't be driven by a Tube Amp.. as I really wanted to try one out.:rolleyes:

This is more info on this DAC.. For you DIYers you can actually build a 'buffalo32' DAC.. You can find the schematics online, plus theres websites that sell the chips/boards & other material.

The SABRE32 Reference audio DAC series is the world’s highest performance 32-bit audio DAC solution targeted for consumer applications such as Blu-ray player, audio pre-amplifier, A/V receiver and professional applications such as recording systems, mixer consoles and digital audio workstations. With ESS patented 32-bit Hyperstream™ DAC architecture and Time Domain Jitter Eliminator, the SABRE32 Reference Stereo DAC delivers an unprecedented DNR of up to 135dB and THD+N of -120dB, the industry’s highest performance level that will satisfy the most demanding audio enthusiasts.

This is for the general
Bel Canto DAC2 VS SABRE32
Dynamic range 117 Dynamic range 135
Bit depth 16-24 bit 16-32 bit
THD 0.003% -120. (Found a lesser SABRE DAC chip that THD is -110 which equals to 0.0003%
FR 2HZ to 80kHZ FR 2HZ to 100kHZ (full range)

Nice, 12,000 DAC!

http://www.audiovisionsf.com/?page=detail&product_id=1540

I spent a long time searching for what you described but no luck. I finally settled on the HK AVR 254. This can be had from ebay as a refurb for about $240 with shipping. As long as you have headphones connected to the AVR, you can run stereo phono cables from the audio out in the back to a headphone amp and enjoy DH processing. I verified this for being a real line out by turning the volume up and down on the receiver with no success - it can only be adjust with the headphone amp. I did this myself with the MixAmp with the MP3 jack on the back. The AVR 254 uses Dolby Headphone version 2 so if I remember correctly it utilizes the latest and more efficient DH2.

Are you certain that the line out signal is DH processed? I always thought the DH is limited to the headphone output.

Try them out with some Metal, Symphonic Metal, Pop, RnB, and Jazz for me.... and report back... I'm still looking for my perfect closed phone... I still think a Woodied Denon might be it... just felt a little heartbroken when I found out the D2000 shouldn't be driven by a Tube Amp.. as I really wanted to try one out.:rolleyes:

The general consensus is that the m50 is a great all arounder. I have to agree. They sound great with everything I have thrown at it. They lean on the warm side, and they seem to have a slight v shape equalization. The low and high end is more prominent than the mids.

I prefer it this way. i think the mids are the least important from everything i listen to anyway. They are very exciting to listen to. Reminds me of a better balanced XB700. Slightly less bass but more of everything else. Trust me, they have a LOT of bass, but it doesnt drown out other sounds like the XB700.


They sound amazing with video games, but they lack soundstage, which to me is the only downside.

My DT880s were waiting for me when I got home from IHOP!

Sexiest. Headphones. EVAR!!1!1!

Biggest surprise? They are smaller than I thought they would be. This is an extremely good thing. I expected the cups to be as big as the AD700s. They're actually as big as the M50s. :)

OMFG are they comfy. I kinda just put them on and they feel like heaven on the ears. Though I did have to adjust them to be at their longest to fit my head right. I guess I have a long head?

First reaction to their sound via my phone + Fiio E5... they are definitely on the warm side. They sound completely opposite from my AD700s.

I have just put them on, so I'm gonna spend all day with them before saying anything on their sound quality. So far I can see why they are expensive, lol.

My DT880s were waiting for me when I got home from IHOP!

Sexiest. Headphones. EVAR!!1!1!

Biggest surprise? They are smaller than I thought they would be. This is an extremely good thing. I expected the cups to be as big as the AD700s. They're actually as big as the M50s. :)

OMFG are they comfy. I kinda just put them on and they feel like heaven on the ears. Though I did have to adjust them to be at their longest to fit my head right. I guess I have a long head?

First reaction to their sound via my phone + Fiio E5... they are definitely on the warm side. They sound completely opposite from my AD700s.

I have just put them on, so I'm gonna spend all day with them before saying anything on their sound quality. So far I can see why they are expensive, lol.Sweet! I've been checking this thread every day waiting for you to get these babies. I thought you might like the comfort! Can't wait to hear more impressions as you burn them in and such.

I don't know if the 32 ohm are the same as the others, but after ~20 hours the brightness settles down. The 600 ohm actually sounded quite different (in a pretty bad way) out of the box as they did after ~20 hours. Dunno why.

So I've moved forward on cables for my headphones using the mini xlr modular cable idea. I contacted Rick Warren of Warren Audio (http://www.warren-audio.com/) and I'm having him make me a 6 foot headphone "extension" cable which is basically a 1/4 to mini xlr 4 pin female. Then I have 3 adapters coming to use this cable.. each terminated in mini xlr male 4 pin on one end and their respective headphone adapter on the other. One for the HD600 (senn connectors), one for K702 (mini xlr 3 pin female), and one with bare leads that I'm going to solder onto my DT880s. Can't wait to try them out! Basically all of my headphones will disconnect at the Y. So I can leave my one headphone cable plugged into the amp(s) and just swap headphones and plug in the 1 foot headphone cable mini xlrs and be done. Should save a ton of wiring mess overall, and even storing the headphones, they will only have the 1 foot cable on them, so it would be neater for that too.

Then, in the future, any headphone I get I will just need to make a 1 foot cable... mini xlr 4 pin male on one end and whatever the headphone takes on the other and I'm ready to go... no need to buy an expensive full length custom cable. Also, if I ever want to try a silver cable or something different, I can get a single one and use it on all of my headphones without any modifications, though it would be going through a 1 foot section of OCC copper if I don't change the headphone tails as well. And then if I want to ever switch to a balanced setup, I can either buy one new 6 foot balanced extension, or cut the 1/4 plug off and solder on balanced connectors and then instantly all of my headphones are now balanced.

Anyway I'm pretty excited!

from shin's comments, i'm glad i didnt go with the DT880.... the K702 enhances everything the AD700 does, i dont want something the polar opposite.

must.....resist......buying K702's........... :confused:


I'm happy with AD700's, but the curiosity of something better is always in the back of my head ha ha!

must.....resist......buying K702's........... :confused:


I'm happy with AD700's, but the curiosity of something better is always in the back of my head ha ha!

JUST DO IT! ...and get one of these...
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/e083bf7f.jpg

So I've moved forward on cables for my headphones using the mini xlr modular cable idea. I contacted Rick Warren of Warren Audio (http://www.warren-audio.com/) and I'm having him make me a 6 foot headphone "extension" cable which is basically a 1/4 to mini xlr 4 pin female. Then I have 3 adapters coming to use this cable.. each terminated in mini xlr male 4 pin on one end and their respective headphone adapter on the other. One for the HD600 (senn connectors), one for K702 (mini xlr 3 pin female), and one with bare leads that I'm going to solder onto my DT880s. Can't wait to try them out! Basically all of my headphones will disconnect at the Y. So I can leave my one headphone cable plugged into the amp(s) and just swap headphones and plug in the 1 foot headphone cable mini xlrs and be done. Should save a ton of wiring mess overall, and even storing the headphones, they will only have the 1 foot cable on them, so it would be neater for that too.

Then, in the future, any headphone I get I will just need to make a 1 foot cable... mini xlr 4 pin male on one end and whatever the headphone takes on the other and I'm ready to go... no need to buy an expensive full length custom cable. Also, if I ever want to try a silver cable or something different, I can get a single one and use it on all of my headphones without any modifications, though it would be going through a 1 foot section of OCC copper if I don't change the headphone tails as well. And then if I want to ever switch to a balanced setup, I can either buy one new 6 foot balanced extension, or cut the 1/4 plug off and solder on balanced connectors and then instantly all of my headphones are now balanced.

Anyway I'm pretty excited!
I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure headphones need to be wired with 4 wires in order to be balanced (i.e. no common ground). Are you going to wire the 1ft portion that way to give you that upgradability?

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure headphones need to be wired with 4 wires in order to be balanced (i.e. no common ground). Are you going to wire the 1ft portion that way to give you that upgradability?Yeah the adapter pigtails will be 4 wires except for the K702 which is going to the 3 pin xlr for now. That one would actually require a rewire to be balanced. Shouldn't be hard though... would be a matter of cutting the xlr 3 pin off the adapter I'll have and wiring the 4 leads to the drivers.

That's why I chose the 4 pin mini xlr at the Y though .. to keep everything as ready as I can for balanced, just in case.

Yeah the adapter pigtails will be 4 wires except for the K702 which is going to the 3 pin xlr for now. That one would actually require a rewire to be balanced. Shouldn't be hard though... would be a matter of cutting the xlr 3 pin off the adapter I'll have and wiring the 4 leads to the drivers.

That's why I chose the 4 pin mini xlr at the Y though .. to keep everything as ready as I can for balanced, just in case.
I figured that's what the 4 pin xlr was for. Too bad the AKGs don't come wired balanced with a 4 pin mini xlr.
Seems like a nice setup.

from shin's comments, i'm glad i didnt go with the DT880.... the K702 enhances everything the AD700 does, i dont want something the polar opposite.

Hold it right there, buster!

My initial impression of the DT880s was from listening to them for 5 minutes off my phone and Fiio E5, lol.

Although I have not burned them in, I HAVE been playing ME2 with the Mixamp and the DT880s for over 2 hours now.

Verdict: BESTEST GAMING HEADPHONES EVAR.

I totally have no reason to go back to the AD700s after this, and they aren't even burned in yet!

The game truly comes to life with the DT880s. I mean, I'm getting all the bass impact, MOST of the soundstage of the AD700s, and overall more clarity and balance. As far as I am concerned, the AD700s sound like a weaker, brighter, bassless version of the DT880s.

'nerd, they are VERY clear, more so than the AD700s. The highs aren't piercing, nor are they lacking impact like the AD700s. They have a GREAT soundstage, enough to say I won't miss the AD700s soundstage. These are just so much more fun to use while gaming.

I thought they were warm until I started gaming with them with the Mixamp. They sound so silky smooth and natural. I'd say that the M50 is obviously warmer, while the AD700s are brighter. They fall in between, getting the best of both, while having their own distinct sound.

Are they MUCH better than the AD700s for gaming? No, they're not. Are they better? Yes. They do everything better except soundstage, which I can say they have 95% of.

Are they worth 200 bucks more than the AD700s? For normal people, hell no. I needed something to do as good as the AD700s, with better fit, comfort, and bass. These babies are it.

In the end, we can all agree that the AD700s are IN-EFFING-CREDIBLE for the price.

Hold it right there, buster!

My initial impression of the DT880s was from listening to them for 5 minutes off my phone and Fiio E5, lol.

Although I have not burned them in, I HAVE been playing ME2 with the Mixamp and the DT880s for over 2 hours now.

Verdict: BESTEST GAMING HEADPHONES EVAR.

I totally have no reason to go back to the AD700s after this, and they aren't even burned in yet!

The game truly comes to life with the DT880s. I mean, I'm getting all the bass impact, MOST of the soundstage of the AD700s, and overall more clarity and balance. As far as I am concerned, the AD700s sound like a weaker, brighter, bassless version of the DT880s.

'nerd, they are VERY clear, more so than the AD700s. The highs aren't piercing, nor are they lacking impact like the AD700s. They have a GREAT soundstage, enough to say I won't miss the AD700s soundstage. These are just so much more fun to use while gaming.

I thought they were warm until I started gaming with them with the Mixamp. They sound so silky smooth and natural. I'd say that the M50 is obviously warmer, while the AD700s are brighter. They fall in between, getting the best of both, while having their own distinct sound.

Are they MUCH better than the AD700s for gaming? No, they're not. Are they better? Yes. They do everything better except soundstage, which I can say they have 95% of.

Are they worth 200 bucks more than the AD700s? For normal people, hell no. I needed something to do as good as the AD700s, with better fit, comfort, and bass. These babies are it.

In the end, we can all agree that the AD700s are IN-EFFING-CREDIBLE for the price.Glad you like em. I thought they would be right up your alley! You'll have to listen to some more music on them. Listen to some high quality songs with real instruments (as opposed to the synthesized mainstream stuff) and listen to the difference in how the sound is reproduced vs the AD700s. Night and day, in my setup at least. I can't even listen to music on the AD700s anymore.

To add, I don't think the DT880 is the polar opposite. I'd say they're better balanced than the AD700s, without losing that loving clarity we need for gaming.

Another thing to add, I'm glad I went with the 32ohm.

Hell, I must like it loud because I have the mixamp on Game 100%, while the volume knob is at 2 o'clock.

Had I gone with the K702, I would have been severely disappointed, especially if I ever actually need the voice chat, meaning even less volume.

Remember, I LOOOOVE the AD700s sound. It's a big deal to say that I prefer the DT880/32 over the AD700 for gaming. Take that as you will. Had I not been content with the upgrade, you guys would be the first to know it. I'm VERY glad to have spent the 300 smackers for them.

Glad you like em. I thought they would be right up your alley! You'll have to listen to some more music on them. Listen to some high quality songs with real instruments (as opposed to the synthesized mainstream stuff) and listen to the difference in how the sound is reproduced vs the AD700s. Night and day, in my setup at least. I can't even listen to music on the AD700s anymore.

You know I will. :D
I agree with you on one major thing. I do NOT like the AD700s at ALL for music. They have absolutely no excitement to them in that regard.

The DT880s are actually nearly as exciting as the M50s with music. I expected more clarity and less excitement. I got more clarity and almost as much excitement, though having less bass than the M50, but we all know about open vs closed. These have plenty of bass for an open design.
Still, the M50s are an absolute beast at the price point. I will be using them heavily with music and late night use.

I'll be burning the DT880s in for a few days to get a better idea of how they will sound in the future.

In the end, I'm pretty much done when it comes to finding the perfect pair of gaming headphones, closed headphones, and portable headphones. My last headphone purchase will be ones I leave at work, which will undoubtedly be the Koss KSC75. :)

Who knows? Maybe the Sony NC7s Im getting for free will be good enough for work.

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/a708d512.jpg
:eek:

I totally think these will PWN everything...
:D

Update: Not trying to be stupid or anything... but these things for $5... ARE BASS MONSTERS! I'm totally impressed with them for BASS! The rest, well... they are more in-line with $15-20 IEMs. I actually picked up some Sennheiser CX250. They're not bad, haven't been burned in... but they sound like they'd be better for my Jazz stuff... and these will be my David Guetta 'phones. Listening to Sexy Bytch now... Nice and deep bass! :D:D:D:D

Hold it right there, buster!

My initial impression of the DT880s was from listening to them for 5 minutes off my phone and Fiio E5, lol.

Although I have not burned them in, I HAVE been playing ME2 with the Mixamp and the DT880s for over 2 hours now.

Verdict: BESTEST GAMING HEADPHONES EVAR.

I totally have no reason to go back to the AD700s after this, and they aren't even burned in yet!

The game truly comes to life with the DT880s. I mean, I'm getting all the bass impact, MOST of the soundstage of the AD700s, and overall more clarity and balance. As far as I am concerned, the AD700s sound like a weaker, brighter, bassless version of the DT880s.

'nerd, they are VERY clear, more so than the AD700s. The highs aren't piercing, nor are they lacking impact like the AD700s. They have a GREAT soundstage, enough to say I won't miss the AD700s soundstage. These are just so much more fun to use while gaming.

I thought they were warm until I started gaming with them with the Mixamp. They sound so silky smooth and natural. I'd say that the M50 is obviously warmer, while the AD700s are brighter. They fall in between, getting the best of both, while having their own distinct sound.

Are they MUCH better than the AD700s for gaming? No, they're not. Are they better? Yes. They do everything better except soundstage, which I can say they have 95% of.

Are they worth 200 bucks more than the AD700s? For normal people, hell no. I needed something to do as good as the AD700s, with better fit, comfort, and bass. These babies are it.

In the end, we can all agree that the AD700s are IN-EFFING-CREDIBLE for the price.

That's why I list them as the best headphones for gaming for under 400. 5 stars.. Glad you agree..:D IMO, the DT880 SS is better then the AD700.. More holographic & out of head, that's my experience.. Weird, how we hear things.. I hated the DT880 for music, but were my fav gaming/movie cans..

I seen some used 701 for as low as 185 on headfi.. From most reports they are nearly identical sound wise.. I hope others move towards the more hi end of headphones for gaming...DT880/701/2.. For most people, that will be the pinnacle & will never want to go beyond that.. I might be getting a 702 too..:) I don't think my D48 are doing my oppo83se justice.. Will be a place holder for the HD800.. Still want the D7000, since they replicate a TH so perfectly, especially in the bass area..

Are you certain that the line out signal is DH processed? I always thought the DH is limited to the headphone output.

I can assure you it is. I played a few minutes of MAG with DTS and even tried a THX mastered DVD with the speaker calibration just to be sure I was getting audio from all directions. I believe it can also output DH with DTS-MA and Dolby TruHD BDs - I can verify this soon if you like. I was already going to do it later once my powered HDMI splitter arrived from monoprice to use with my slim PS3 on bitstream HDMI mode.

Yeah the adapter pigtails will be 4 wires except for the K702 which is going to the 3 pin xlr for now. That one would actually require a rewire to be balanced. Shouldn't be hard though... would be a matter of cutting the xlr 3 pin off the adapter I'll have and wiring the 4 leads to the drivers.

That's why I chose the 4 pin mini xlr at the Y though .. to keep everything as ready as I can for balanced, just in case.

Dang, Now I'm thinking of getting K702s and doing like this guy... I already started checking into it...
Balanced dual entry K702 (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/diy-cable-gallery-71148/index366.html#post6526074)
Interesting huh!?

That's why I list them as the best headphones for gaming for under 400. 5 stars.. Glad you agree..:D IMO, the DT880 SS is better then the AD700.. More holographic & out of head, that's my experience.. Weird, how we hear things.. I hated the DT880 for music, but were my fav gaming/movie cans..

I totally agree. All in all, the DT880 is CLEARLY superior in every single way over the AD700s. While the AD700s reach out farther in length when it comes to soundstage, the surround effect on the DT880s sounds like you're completely immersed in your game surroundings. I mean, holy cow. These babies are so damn good, I can't possibly go back to the AD700s. They're no slouch in soundstage. Hell, based off soundstage alone, I really do give them 95% of the AD700s 'reach'.

You're getting a complete package with the DT880s. I couldn't possibly see anything better for gaming, nor do I need to. With the AD700s, I was still missing the impact and wanted more. With the DT880s, I got everything I was missing from the AD700s and more. For gaming, I can EASILY say that they are missing absolutely NOTHING. Well, except for a mic, lol. I dunno how they compare to the 702s, but for a low impedance headphone that needs nothing but the Mixamp, they are perfect, imho.

Had I gone with the K702, I would have been severely disappointed, especially if I ever actually need the voice chat, meaning even less volume.

with my k702's my master volume is at 2 o'clock and my voice is at 3 o'clock.... only difference from my ad700's is that they were at 1 and 2-3 respectively

and impedance doesnt even tell a large part of the story, the k702's are 62ohm and harder to drive than the 600ohm dt880's according to some people.

Still, I'd rather not take the gamble as there are conflicting reports on how well the 702s are driven straight off the mixamp. I don't regret getting the DT880/32, besides it hurting my bank a bit. I also sincerely doubt the 702s are as comfy as the DT880s, which was also the biggest reason why I got them in the first place. Had AT made a non-winged version of the AD700 with adjustable headband like the DT880s, I would've easily gotten them as long as they were in the normal AD700 price range. There isn't, so getting something better in nearly every regard without additional equipment was my best bet. DT880s are it. :D

I can assure you it is. I played a few minutes of MAG with DTS and even tried a THX mastered DVD with the speaker calibration just to be sure I was getting audio from all directions. I believe it can also output DH with DTS-MA and Dolby TruHD BDs - I can verify this soon if you like. I was already going to do it later once my powered HDMI splitter arrived from monoprice to use with my slim PS3 on bitstream HDMI mode.
Good to know. Too bad it takes a full blown AVR to get a line out DH signal.

with my k702's my master volume is at 2 o'clock and my voice is at 3 o'clock.... only difference from my ad700's is that they were at 1 and 2-3 respectively

and impedance doesnt even tell a large part of the story, the k702's are 62ohm and harder to drive than the 600ohm dt880's according to some people.

Nerd, whaddaya think so far?

Still, I'd rather not take the gamble as there are conflicting reports on how well the 702s are driven straight off the mixamp. I don't regret getting the DT880/32, besides it hurting my bank a bit. I also sincerely doubt the 702s are as comfy as the DT880s, which was also the biggest reason why I got them in the first place. Had AT made a non-winged version of the AD700 with adjustable headband like the DT880s, I would've easily gotten them as long as they were in the normal AD700 price range. There isn't, so getting something better in nearly every regard without additional equipment was my best bet. DT880s are it. :D

I'm running 702s straight off the mixamp with no issue. Volume to spare.

http://i41.tinypic.com/116ie81.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/do88es.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/24e9imr.jpg

My two new babehs!

with my k702's my master volume is at 2 o'clock and my voice is at 3 o'clock.... only difference from my ad700's is that they were at 1 and 2-3 respectively

and impedance doesnt even tell a large part of the story, the k702's are 62ohm and harder to drive than the 600ohm dt880's according to some people.
My experience is that when paired with the mixamp, the K702s are easier to drive than the DT880-250, and just a smidge harder to drive than the DT880-32.

One thing to keep in mind, especially with the K701/2s, is that they say just because it's loud enough doesn't mean it's properly driven. I'm sure it's more than fine for gaming though. I'll find out for myself tomorrow!

One thing to keep in mind, especially with the K701/2s, is that they say just because it's loud enough doesn't mean it's properly driven. I'm sure it's more than fine for gaming though. I'll find out for myself tomorrow!
Volume is only half the equation... Loud doesn't always equate to being driven well..

Volume is only half the equation... Loud doesn't always equate to being driven well..

Very true but on the same token when it comes to gaming being unable to adjust upward in volume to suit ones personal tastes could be a deal killer. Especially if it means you have to adjust the chat volume down and then have trouble hearing friends.

Very true but on the same token when it comes to gaming being unable to adjust upward in volume to suit ones personal tastes could be a deal killer. Especially if it means you have to adjust the chat volume down and then have trouble hearing friends.

...what if I have no friends? :rolleyes:

Good to know. Too bad it takes a full blown AVR to get a line out DH signal.

What's funny is that I had given up on the features that I was looking for when I settled on the AVR 254. It was merely coincidence that it was able to do all the things I wanted in the first place. Originally, I just wanted to compare this receiver with the Pioneer DH amp I had previously bought (which I later gave to my younger brother along with a new pair of Senns 555 for his birthday). I then thought, well, since it handles lossless surround I may as well upgrade my speakers, so I did that too. As time went by I realized all the cool things that it could do and am very glad I bought it to begin with.

One more thing, I can always line out this to the MixAmp and enjoy the voice chat mixing simultaneously if I wanted to.

I think people like Shin should try attending some headphone meets so they can hear great sounding/amps/dacs/etc... If it's a home meet, just bring your console & use a great amp/DAC, it will enhance your experience.. Or maybe going STAX is the next level of gaming.. I like my GP V5 amp for gaming.. but most here are not interested in spending 550 for a headphone amp.. Which I understand..

What about a Sony MDR-SA5000?

I think people like Shin should try attending some headphone meets so they can hear great sounding/amps/dacs/etc... If it's a home meet, just bring your console & use a great amp/DAC, it will enhance your experience.. Or maybe going STAX is the next level of gaming.. I like my GP V5 amp for gaming.. but most here are not interested in spending 550 for a headphone amp.. Which I understand..

I'm actually highly interested in the GS-1 from headamp.com. Would I not wonder where most of my tax refund money went I would have bought that. Next year for sure...

I'd be very interested in meets, but I know myself enough to know that I don't wanna deal with another device between my headphones and sources. This is one instance in which I rather enjoy the setups I have, and not 'realize' how much better more expensive setups are. I'm incredibly happy with the ATH-M50s for closed sessions and DT880s for open sessions driven with a cheap portable amp or mixamp.

The DT880s DID show me just how much better $300 headphones are compared to $100 headphones. I'll stick to just THESE $300 headphones and not want more out of my setups. XD

And...

Volume is only half the equation... Loud doesn't always equate to being driven well..

THIS X 1000.

I know that if I bought the K701/2, I would always believe that I'm not getting the best I can get for gaming until I spent another couple of hundred on an amp that can drive them well. It might sound 'fine', but I don't want to spend a few hundred on fine. I want to make sure my devices can drive them properly, and using them properly.

I think if I ever upgrade into the future, it will be along the lines of low impedance, easy to drive headphones. Something like the DT770/80, or the D2000, things along those lines. Hell, maybe in the next few years I can get a beastly DAC/AMP and end up with some like the K702. ;) That is a possibility. Just not one anytime soon.

edit: Update on my Dt880s. I'm absolutely loving their sound with music. There's so much detail and clarity to these things, I can't believe how good they are. I'm in love. These are really missing nothing to me.

Not to derail from "Amp Talk" :eek:, but did AVS used to have ads along the right side when you're logged in?

Here's a pic of the circuit board of the Tritton AX720. I haven't looked at it enough to guess where the hiss is coming from. I didn't mark it up because I'm kinda lazy, but here are the major ASICs on the board:

The giant chip on the bottom right: PTC PT8501 Dolby Digital decoder
Smaller chip up & right from that: CM119 USB Audio controller (for the PS3)
Chip top-right: Sonix SN8P microcontroller (for handling volume, DD/DPL selection, etc)
Chip dead center: JRC NJU26220 Dolby Headphone decoder
Down & left from there: Wolfson WM8728 stereo DAC
Just to the left of that, as well as the two identical setups in the top left: Princeton Technology PT2308 stereo headphone driver (I haven't figured out why there are 3 of these, maybe the one next to the DAC is for the chat signal, one mono signal for each headphone output)
3 pin chip bottom left above power connector: UTC 78D05AL 5V linear regulator

Not to derail from "Amp Talk" :eek:, but did AVS used to have ads along the right side when you're logged in?

i always had ads on the right before ABP.

What about a Sony MDR-SA5000?
IMO they are awesome.. I favored them over the DT880 in general.. Speed. Clarity. detail. Ranks with the best of them currently out, not including Electro's.. I sold them, which I regret, because my DT48 are even better in those areas & in general, but the DT48 are very polarizing & uncoventional.. The SA5000 sounds more pleasurable with a bigger & more 3d like sound stage, & much better bass extension Not even close.. The DT48 bass begins to rolls off between 50-60hkz, or somewhere along those lines.. & the SA5000 sounds more like a stereo system, while the DT48, sound like, well, headphones..:)

I'm actually highly interested in the GS-1 from headamp.com. Would I not wonder where most of my tax refund money went I would have bought that. Next year for sure...
GS-1 is a great amp.. I think the GP V5 I have is close to it sonically, or maybe even betters it in some ways.. But I heard the GS-1 without the Stepped Att, & module upgrades, which, I'm sure would surpass the GP V5..

Here's a pic of the circuit board of the Tritton AX720. I haven't looked at it enough to guess where the hiss is coming from. I didn't mark it up because I'm kinda lazy, but here are the major ASICs on the board:

The giant chip on the bottom right: PTC PT8501 Dolby Digital decoder
Smaller chip up & right from that: CM119 USB Audio controller (for the PS3)
Chip top-right: Sonix SN8P microcontroller (for handling volume, DD/DPL selection, etc)
Chip dead center: JRC NJU26220 Dolby Headphone decoder
Down & left from there: Wolfson WM8728 stereo DAC
Just to the left of that, as well as the two identical setups in the top left: Princeton Technology PT2308 stereo headphone driver (I haven't figured out why there are 3 of these, maybe the one next to the DAC is for the chat signal, one mono signal for each headphone output)
3 pin chip bottom left above power connector: UTC 78D05AL 5V linear regulator

I'm suprised to see the Wofson dac being used.. Don't know how well the WM8728 really is, but Wolfson is well respected..

IMO they are awesome.. I favored them over the DT880 in general.. Speed. Clarity. detail. Ranks with the best of them currently out, not including Electro's.. I sold them, which I regret, because my DT48 are even better in those areas & in general, but the DT48 are very polarizing & uncoventional.. The SA5000 sounds more pleasurable with a bigger & more 3d like sound stage, & much better bass extension Not even close.. The DT48 bass begins to rolls off between 50-60hkz, or somewhere along those lines.. & the SA5000 sounds more like a stereo system, while the DT48, sound like, well, headphones..:)

Could be a HOT ticket for my "Open" Audio set. I think I can deal with my IEMs for closed (or my modded HD428s for my BASS heavy binges).

i always had ads on the right before ABP.

Huh. I could have sworn that, within a thread, I didn't have any ads taking up space along the right hand side of certain posts when I was logged in. Oh well.

Huh. I could have sworn that, within a thread, I didn't have any ads taking up space along the right hand side of certain posts when I was logged in. Oh well.I never noticed them either until now if they were there.

Ads on the side are new.

Ads on the side are new.

iPad?

iPad?
uBleeding?

uBleeding?

:eek:

The AD700s are no longer in my home.

I will miss thee, my dearly departed! :(

I spent sometime today gaming with the M50s with the Mixamp after some serious burning in.

Wow. These babies sound GREAT while gaming. They obviously don't have the soundstage of the AD700s or DT880s, but they have more than enough soundstage for a closed back, and they do amazingly well in positional cues. I would have absolutely no problems using these for late night gaming.

That said, my friend loves them so much, he's willing to pay me the exact amount I paid for them.

What do you guys think of the DT770/32? I'd want the 32ohm version because of how easy my DT880s are to drive, even with the Fiio E5 off my phone. I would go for the DT770 pro 80ohm (which are cheaper), but I'm not sure. The MMX300 seems to be the DT770/32 with a mic, so how good are they?

I just don't want them to be the exact same color as my DT880/32, which they seem to be. O_O

In the end, I may just keep my M50s because how great they truly are.

I spent sometime today gaming with the M50s with the Mixamp after some serious burning in.

Wow. These babies sound GREAT while gaming. They obviously don't have the soundstage of the AD700s or DT880s, but they have more than enough soundstage for a closed back, and they do amazingly well in positional cues. I would have absolutely no problems using these for late night gaming.

That said, my friend loves them so much, he's willing to pay me the exact amount I paid for them.

What do you guys think of the DT770/32? I'd want the 32ohm version because of how easy my DT880s are to drive, even with the Fiio E5 off my phone. I would go for the DT770 pro 80ohm (which are cheaper), but I'm not sure. The MMX300 seems to be the DT770/32 with a mic, so how good are they?

I just don't want them to be the exact same color as my DT880/32, which they seem to be. O_O

In the end, I may just keep my M50s because how great they truly are.

You have them, you like them, keep them... you don't know if you'd like the DT770... why leave it up to chance?

It's all about diminishing returns now Shin...

I mean no offense here but for the most part, you've got mad praise for your current flavor of the week headphones.:o

It was the AD700s and now you're going gaga over the M50s as well as the DT880s. I don't know if you are going to change your mind again after a couple of weeks?:D:o:p

It seems that your source is also lacking. From what I've read as well over at Head-Fi, once you go with the higher impedance phones, you're talking more CLEAN power to make them truly sing but the advantage of higher impedance headphones is their range. At least that's what I've found along my own experience.

I don't claim to be an expert and this, like many of you guys out there, is all based on personal experience.

I had the AD700 for 2 days. Hated the fact that EVERYONE could hear what I was listening to AND, well it didn't have the slam that MUSIC is supposed to have. It's gone now, like yours and a bunch of other people here. Bass gives you that chewiness to the music. Like cutting into a thick steak vs. a steak and eggs breakfast at Denny's.

I had the RX900; a very capable cheapo budget semi-open headphone. It had it all, bass and highs along with the dynamics in between BUT, being a bass head, I wanted more so away they also went to my friend who absolutely appreciates every minute he has them on.

The DT770/250 is my current weapon of choice and after some critical listening to them with all sorts of HIGH QUALITY source material, I can honestly say that they're the best headphones I've ever listened to and want to listen to. Running off a Maxi Moy design headphone amp off the laptop produces some superb music to serve as background music while I work. The biggest upgrade that I can say right off the bad is the comfort. No contest over the other 2. Then the low end, copious amounts of bass to gently massage my ear drums at just the right pressure relaxing those muscles after a good workout on the court. The range of the 770/250 is much wider than the RX900 which is why I suspect that why these babies need that amount of power. Power is needed to flush out those notes that are otherwise getting lost giving you a fuller more articulate and defined sound.

Buy once, cry once and ENJOY EVERY TIME.

Don't forget, headphones are also subjective and ears are different but I'm pretty confident in saying you should trade/return both M50 and 880/32 for the DT770/250 and get an AMP....I think that is what you are looking for. If not, then you're back to square 1. Sorry man!

Right now, classical music; 1812 Overture, Op. 49 off off FLAC. AWESOME!

here's a little bit of salt to have with my post.

It's all about diminishing returns now Shin...

I mean no offense here but for the most part, you've got mad praise for your current flavor of the week headphones.:o

It was the AD700s and now you're going gaga over the M50s as well as the DT880s. I don't know if you are going to change your mind again after a couple of weeks?:D:o:p

It seems that your source is also lacking. From what I've read as well over at Head-Fi, once you go with the higher impedance phones, you're talking more CLEAN power to make them truly sing but the advantage of higher impedance headphones is their range. At least that's what I've found along my own experience.

I don't claim to be an expert and this, like many of you guys out there, is all based on personal experience.

I had the AD700 for 2 days. Hated the fact that EVERYONE could hear what I was listening to AND, well it didn't have the slam that MUSIC is supposed to have. It's gone now, like yours and a bunch of other people here. Bass gives you that chewiness to the music. Like cutting into a thick steak vs. a steak and eggs breakfast at Denny's.

I had the RX900; a very capable cheapo budget semi-open headphone. It had it all, bass and highs along with the dynamics in between BUT, being a bass head, I wanted more so away they also went to my friend who absolutely appreciates every minute he has them on.

The DT770/250 is my current weapon of choice and after some critical listening to them with all sorts of HIGH QUALITY source material, I can honestly say that they're the best headphones I've ever listened to and want to listen to. Running off a Maxi Moy design headphone amp off the laptop produces some superb music to serve as background music while I work. The biggest upgrade that I can say right off the bad is the comfort. No contest over the other 2. Then the low end, copious amounts of bass to gently massage my ear drums at just the right pressure relaxing those muscles after a good workout on the court. The range of the 770/250 is much wider than the RX900 which is why I suspect that why these babies need that amount of power. Power is needed to flush out those notes that are otherwise getting lost giving you a fuller more articulate and defined sound.

Buy once, cry once and ENJOY EVERY TIME.

Don't forget, headphones are also subjective and ears are different but I'm pretty confident in saying you should trade/return both M50 and 880/32 for the DT770/250 and get an AMP....I think that is what you are looking for. If not, then you're back to square 1. Sorry man!

Right now, classical music; 1812 Overture, Op. 49 off off FLAC. AWESOME!

here's a little bit of salt to have with my post.

Very well put. I think if Shin picks up a uDac... he'll get the clean audio and power to push his headphones. With the benefit of being able to quickly pop the uDac and USB cable into his Netbook bag and take it with him (it's a portable DAC/Amp, just not a mobile one). Then, he can properly audition his phones and some higher ones without worry too much worry.

Hey PJ Rage, weren't you gonna test the K702s with an amp inline with the mixamp this weekend (or last, can't remember)? Did you ever do that??

It's all about diminishing returns now Shin...

I mean no offense here but for the most part, you've got mad praise for your current flavor of the week headphones.:o

It was the AD700s and now you're going gaga over the M50s as well as the DT880s. I don't know if you are going to change your mind again after a couple of weeks?:D:o:p

It seems that your source is also lacking. From what I've read as well over at Head-Fi, once you go with the higher impedance phones, you're talking more CLEAN power to make them truly sing but the advantage of higher impedance headphones is their range. At least that's what I've found along my own experience.

I don't claim to be an expert and this, like many of you guys out there, is all based on personal experience.

I had the AD700 for 2 days. Hated the fact that EVERYONE could hear what I was listening to AND, well it didn't have the slam that MUSIC is supposed to have. It's gone now, like yours and a bunch of other people here. Bass gives you that chewiness to the music. Like cutting into a thick steak vs. a steak and eggs breakfast at Denny's.

I had the RX900; a very capable cheapo budget semi-open headphone. It had it all, bass and highs along with the dynamics in between BUT, being a bass head, I wanted more so away they also went to my friend who absolutely appreciates every minute he has them on.

The DT770/250 is my current weapon of choice and after some critical listening to them with all sorts of HIGH QUALITY source material, I can honestly say that they're the best headphones I've ever listened to and want to listen to. Running off a Maxi Moy design headphone amp off the laptop produces some superb music to serve as background music while I work. The biggest upgrade that I can say right off the bad is the comfort. No contest over the other 2. Then the low end, copious amounts of bass to gently massage my ear drums at just the right pressure relaxing those muscles after a good workout on the court. The range of the 770/250 is much wider than the RX900 which is why I suspect that why these babies need that amount of power. Power is needed to flush out those notes that are otherwise getting lost giving you a fuller more articulate and defined sound.

Buy once, cry once and ENJOY EVERY TIME.

Don't forget, headphones are also subjective and ears are different but I'm pretty confident in saying you should trade/return both M50 and 880/32 for the DT770/250 and get an AMP....I think that is what you are looking for. If not, then you're back to square 1. Sorry man!

Right now, classical music; 1812 Overture, Op. 49 off off FLAC. AWESOME!

here's a little bit of salt to have with my post.

Nah, you're right. I seem to try so many headphones each week, which makes it seem like I'll never be happy.

Actually though, I would have been happy with the AD700s for JUST gaming IF they fit on my head like say the DT880 or M50s. They didn't, so they had to go. If someone had some AD700s modded with a normal adjustable headband, I'd have bought those no questions asked. I wouldn't have wanted for more for gaming headphones until I tried out my DT880s. Even now, I miss the never ending soundstage of the AD700s.

As far as the M50s go, I DON'T wanna give them up. It's just that I just got rid of the AD700s and with my friend wanting to get my M50s for money I spent, that puts me RIGHT THERE for the DT770s for less than 30 bucks more out of my own pocket. I'm 100% satisfied with my DT880s for gaming. They aren't going anywhere. I'm 100% satisfied with my M50s, but I wonder how much better the DT770s are. Ironically, someone on Head-Fi has M50s, DT770s/250, and D2000, and the M50s are his faves. I can see why. I still prefer them over ALL other headphones for music. If I had to put them in rank (out of the ones I have tried on for days), I'd say...

Music:

1. M50s
2. Sony XB700s (had the stitching not hurt my head where the pads rest, they would have been my go to closed headphones, no question. I would've never upgraded. They are that awesome IMHO.)
3. DT880
4. Head-Direct/HiFiman RE0
4. Senn HD280
5. AD700s - Never did like them for music AT ALL.

Gaming:

1. DT880
2. AD700s
3. M50s
4. Senn HD201 ($20)
5. Philips SHP2500 ($20)
6. A40s

In the end, after considerable time thinking about it, I'm keeping my M50s. I actually prefer their fit over the DT880s. I'm weird like that.

This way I can get a real amp/dac and some beefy high impedance cans later on in life instead of constantly upgrading my low juice requiring headphones. ;)

For real though, with altered comfort and fit, I would've been 10000% happy with the AD700s for open cans, and XB700s for closed. No more upgrading if that were the case.

For real though, with altered comfort and fit, I would've been 10000% happy with the AD700s for open cans, and XB700s for closed. No more upgrading if that were the case.

I'm gonna replace the headband on the AD700s with something similar to the HPXs.

Shin, Get some of these... HD660 (http://www.superlux.com.tw/new/html/products/headphones/HD660.html)

I'm gonna replace the headband on the AD700s with something similar to the HPXs.

Shin, Get some of these... HD660

Many pics or it didn't happen! :eek:

Seriously though, to anyone who ever asks me what headphones to get for gaming, I will ALWAYS tell them to get the AD700s above all. While the DT880s are indeed better for me, the sound isn't leaps above the AD700s. Not for $200 more. I paid the premium for fit and comfort. The build quality is what makes them pricey, I'm sure. They are built like tanks. :D

The DT880s are RIDICULOUSLY comfortable. I'm hard-pressed to believe anything can beat them in that. I do think the M50s sit on my head better though. If I had to choose which one has the better fit/comfort on average, I'd say the M50s. They have more clamp which I like. The DT880s don't clamp at all, lol. They just sort of rest on your head and close in on the ears enough to know they are there, but not loose like the AD700s.

WTF, the HD660 looks exactly like the DT770 Pro! :eek:

Is this a joke? I'm lost. :D

The 770 are very different then the DT880. More fun with games that have a lot of explosions and heavy weaponary.. Get the DT770 80ohm pro version. These are the bass monsters.. And very fun for gaming.. They just lack the DT880 technical expertise, but make up for it in the fun factor.. BF 2/COD MW/ You will feel every explostion and heavy artilary type weapon. Every gamer should experience the 770 pro once in their gaming life

The 770 are very different then the DT880. More fun with games that have a lot of explosions and heavy weaponary.. Get the DT770 80ohm pro version. These are the bass monsters.. And very fun for gaming.. They just lack the DT880 technical expertise, but make up for it in the fun factor.. BF 2/COD MW/ You will feel every explostion and heavy artilary type weapon. Every gamer should experience the 770 pro once in their gaming life

Re-Cabled Sennheiser HD428S are RIDONCULOUS on BASS too! I would love for DaeKwon to listen to some Sexy Bytch with these.... it gives me a headache! :D:D:D:D

The 770 are very different then the DT880. More fun with games that have a lot of explosions and heavy weaponary.. Get the DT770 80ohm pro version. These are the bass monsters.. And very fun for gaming.. They just lack the DT880 technical expertise, but make up for it in the fun factor.. BF 2/COD MW/ You will feel every explostion and heavy artilary type weapon. Every gamer should experience the 770 pro once in their gaming life

Does the Mixamp drive the DT770 Pro/80 well? I like it loud, and admit to having my DT880/32 at Game 100% and the volume knob at about 1 o/clock.

If so, these are the babies for me. They won't cost me hardly anything considering the money coming to me.

Does the Mixamp drive the DT770 Pro/80 well? I like it loud, and admit to having my DT880/32 at Game 100% and the volume knob at about 1 o/clock.

If so, these are the babies for me. They won't cost me hardly anything considering the money coming to me.
The amp should drive them fine. Foe hammer seems to enjoy his 250ohm with the mixamp. Good thing about the 770 is the fact, they retain their re sale value well. I made the mistake of buying the 250ohm version, which fixes some of the pro's problems but you loose that subfoofer type bass.. Think Skull Candy type bass, but MUCH, MUCH, better in quality and control. Lacks the flab and muddiness of the subwoofer SC.. Plus the build quality and comfort are leagues better.. I would use the DT880 for more serious, competitive play.. And the DT770 for fun, and when you are just in the mood to blow sh*t up.

Then I'm getting them, right now! :D

Hey PJ Rage, weren't you gonna test the K702s with an amp inline with the mixamp this weekend (or last, can't remember)? Did you ever do that??Yeah I'm evaluating them now. I've been listening to them since Saturday and I've gamed a bit with them as well, both with and without external amps. I'm still getting a feel for them though. I'm having a harder time getting to know them than I did with the DT880/600 and HD600.

I might be able to post some details tonight after a little more listening and if I get some time to write something up.

Yeah I'm evaluating them now. I've been listening to them since Saturday and I've gamed a bit with them as well, both with and without external amps. I'm still getting a feel for them though. I'm having a harder time getting to know them than I did with the DT880/600 and HD600.

I might be able to post some details tonight after a little more listening and if I get some time to write something up.

Were these purchased new or used (burn in or not)? Also what amps are you using?

So I ordered the DT770 Pro/80ohms. I got them from a 3rd party store on Amazon with a 45 day return window even if opened. Best of all, I can A/B them with the DT880 and M50. :)

I look forward to good things. It sounds like these will be along the lines of the XB700s with better controlled bass, and bigger soundstage. I couldn't ask for more.

So I ordered the DT770 Pro/80ohms. I got them from a 3rd party store on Amazon with a 45 day return window even if opened. Best of all, I can A/B them with the DT880 and M50. :)

I look forward to good things. It sounds like these will be along the lines of the XB700s with better controlled bass, and bigger soundstage. I couldn't ask for more.

Return the DT770 and DT880 and just get the D7000... that is the goal you are working towards;)

Actually I have time now so I'll make a few comments on the K702s.

First, they look great. I think they are the most professional looking headphones I've seen. They have a very comfortable fit. They have an auto-adjustable headband, sort of like the AD700s, but they did it right because these fit perfect with just the right amount of clamping force to stay on your head. Since the headband is continuous, it works more like the AD700s with rubberband mod. The cups are generously big and have nice pads that are comfy. I've noticed when wearing them for anything more than an hour, the top of my head hurts a little bit where the headband is, but for short listening sessions they are very comfy. After that hour or so, I have to start fiddling with the headband every so often readjusting it to a slightly different spot.

For now they have the stock cable, and this pair I bought use with approx 500-600 hours on them, so they should be fully burnt in.

I've been driving them with the head-direct EF1 amp and I've tried them with the MKIII, and also with the mixamp just for gaming. I primarily used the EF1 with them, though.

On to the sound... All comments on sound were noted playing high quality mp3/aac/lossless music played through my D4 DAC unless otherwise noted as gaming. When I refer to DT880s, it's the DT880/600 (typically driven with the MKIII with M8100 driver tubes).

They sound very good. Like the HD600 and DT880 they sound natural such that instruments sound close to real life. This is my new important characteristic for headphones and although this may not be the best way to describe it (maybe there's a word for it), it's very apparent to me when I'm listening to a headphone of this level vs something lower, just in how natural they sound. It may be a combination of the clarity, detail, and timbre, but either way, it's the most apparent in-your-face factor IMO when considering headphones of this level vs lower quality ones. I'll go into a little more detail later in terms of naturalness I just wanted to say this up front that they definitely sound "very good."

I'll start with some of the pros I've noted. The sound stage is very big. It's bigger than both the HD600 and DT880. It's maybe as big as the AD700 but much more precise and crisp overall. The AD700 soundstage is big, but the rest of the headphone sounds so bad (in comparison) that it's hard to draw exact comparisons. Instruments are clearly placed on the soundstage both in width and depth. The DT880 I've found has a soundstage that is big, and almost as wide as the 702s, but I've always found that it lacks a little depth for whatever reason when comparing to the HD600 (which is not as wide but shows more depth IMO) and the AD700s (which I find slightly wider and revealing more depth) and even my Westone 3s.

I don't know if this is right or wrong, and it's hard to put into words for me, but I'll try.... for this paragraph I'm going to refer to "detail" as the ability to reproduce some of the small nuances of the music, and "clarity" as the ability to make these small nuances really pronounced and clear, as well as the rest of the music sounding crisp and clear. So "detail" is "yes the details are there" (ie "I'm hearing things I never heard before!") and "clarity" is I guess the micro-detail in how clearly everything is presented, if that makes sense. Maybe as I'm describing detail it's actually resolution and clarity is just clarity, I don't know (I'm terrible at these reviews because I can't find the right words to describe what I hear, but bear with me). Anyway, the K702 have great detail and clarity. I personally find the DT880 to offer a good bit more detail than the HD600, and more clarity as well. And the K702 I think is almost as good as the DT880 in these areas. At this point, I truly think I'm limited by my source (D4 DAC) so I'm looking to upgrade that next because I think it's starting to hold me back in terms of detail and clarity. But with it, I do think the K702s offer almost as much detail as the DT880s, and seem to me to offer possibly even more clarity. The clarity of the K702s in comparison, though, is more "piercing" to me and I think this attributed to the brightness. Don't get me wrong the DT880s I think offer more detail and are very clear, but the K702s have an in-your-face piercing clarity, again, I feel is due to the bright signature. I'll get into some reasons why this clarity thing might be the case (IMO) in a bit.

Another note on the K702s is that there seems to be no limit to the high frequencies. Where some other headphones can sound as if they are struggling a little to reproduce highs, the K702 highs sound completely effortless and they seem to extend forever. There is also fantastic detail and clarity in the highs. I will say, though, that they would definitely be considered a "bright" headphone for sure. One note here is that I had to change tubes in my EF1 from the RCA cleartop which provides some nice treble extension and a little brightness to the HD600 that I was liking, because it made the K702 so bright that it was quite sibilant at parts. I guess the headphones are so bright that they are right on the edge of being sibilant. Once I changed to a warmer tube, a CV4003 short plate, it was much much better.

Now, on to some negatives.

First thing... Back to naturalness for a second, I want to say that I agree with what I've read about the K702s before in that they produce female vocals especially well, as well as pianos I think sound great on them. For the things they do well, such as the female voices and pianos, they do very well, but IMHO not better than the DT880 overall, and additionally, the DT880s, to my ears, are more natural in a wider frequency range, which encompasses instruments that naturally have a little lower register. Most things (especially anything that doesn't heavily focus on low notes) sound good on the K702, but when I go back to the DT880 I honestly feel that it sounds fuller and richer and more natural overall.

The biggest two negatives for me, though, and perhaps they are even indirectly related, is that first, the bass has very little impact, and second, for some reason voices and sounds in that frequency range can pierce through the rest of the music such that you can't get the music loud enough to suit your needs without the voices hurting your ears.

First, the voices thing. This might sound weird. You might think "well if it's hurting your ears, isn't it loud enough?" The simple answer is no, it's not. For normal listening I don't notice this problem much, but if I'm feeling a song, or a part of a song and I start cranking it, it's a weird feeling that I don't get with the HD600 or DT880. It's like the voices get abnormally loud in comparison to the music that's rocking you. So you don't get the fullness of the music loud enough, but the voices (and high notes to a degree) literally pierce your ear drums. That's really the best I can describe it. My Westone 3 IEMs exhibit a similar problem, but theirs is with midbass. You basically can only get them so loud because the midbass completely takes over everything and is unbearable, but at reasonable listening levels they sound fine. In both cases, I don't know if this has something to do with frequency response not being flat, or just that the K702 are bright and the W3s have a midbass hump, I dunno.

On to the bass problem. First, the bass extension (as far as how deep they can hit) is not bad. Not as deep as the DT880, HD600 or W3s, but better than the AD700s and most certainly reasonable enough. In terms of things like bass guitar and stuff sounding good, there's not a real problem to note - they sound good and have good detail too. My big problem with the bass is it's weight and more notably it's impact. Things like the bass drum are not "felt" at all like they are with the DT880 (which among the headphones I have, I think nails impact and sort of defines the word for me... but this is one of the things that the 600 ohm version supposedly "fixes" over the other impedances, so YMMV). So when playing a rock song for example, where there is a drum beat, when the bass drum hits, you don't feel it. You can hear decent detail within the drum, but there is just no impact IMO. In this regard, the bass is similar to the AD700, but honestly that comparison is not fair because the K702 bass detail smokes the AD700. The other effect that this lack of impact has is that there is no weight to the low end. No ass there. This makes listening to rock and metal not too great. When listening to it, there is just no weight in the lower end and it sounds very thin. Suffice to say that rock/metal is not this headphone's forte. In truth though, rock and metal are the only genres that I've noticed this lack of bass impact and overall thin sound. In classical, and things like piano/voice, jazz, etc, it sounds great to me and I don't notice any thin sound or notice the lack of impact as much. Even electronic music (trance), which I listen to quite a bit, sounds OK (but this is probably a personally preference thing). The lack of impact is noticed with this genre, but personally, I don't need a really impactful bassline when I listen to this type of music because for me it's more about the synths, which sound great on the K702. (The DT880 is still by far my favorite for trance, followed by the W3, but the K702 is still very respectable with this genre IMO due to their ability to make the synths sound great). In regard to this lack of bass, I want to get back to clarity for a second to mention that I think the lack of lower end presence may amplify the clarity of the rest of the range and cause it's "piercing" nature. I'm not positive, but it seems logical without the lower presence there, it's easier to pick out details and to offer more clarity in the upper mid range and highs that is in-your-face.

That about sums up my notes I've taken so far with my time with the K702 with regard to music. To summarize, on the plus side, they look great, are very comfortable, have great high end extension and detail, and offer great clarity. On the down side, they have very little impact in the bass, sound thin with rock and metal, and have a strange note I've observed on songs with vocals where the vocals get incredibly loud before the rest of the music (but this isn't that big of a deal unless you listen loud). A neutral statement would be that they would be considered quite a bright headphone.. bordering on sibilant (but not sibilant with the right equipment). I think a pretty fair assessment of this headphone is that it is a much (much!) better version of the AD700. It takes the basic sound signature of the AD700 and improves on it in a number of ways (most notably detail, clarity, and naturalness).

Now this is already getting long, but I'll throw in a few comments with regard to using the K702s for gaming.

I used them both with the mixamp alone, and with the EF1 amping the mixamp output. With the mixamp alone, I found them to be very similar in volume ability as the HD600. Basically, for single player gaming, they can get more than loud enough. Once you start mixing in voice with the voice/game dial, for my tastes, once I hit around 1:30 or 2 on the dial, that was the limit for me before the overall volume started to dip below my threshold and become too quiet. Since I generally need to keep the voice/game dial at 3 or 3:30 for gaming to clearly hear my friends, the K702 simply would not work for me out of the mixamp alone when gaming and chatting with friends. Out of the EF1, of course, there is plenty of volume. (Just a side-note, with the A40 and AD700 I can get plenty of volume at 3 or 3:30 for multiplayer gaming).

I didn't notice any significant difference in soundstage or positioning when amping the mixamp output with the EF1. Perhaps the mixamp offered slightly better positioning, but the difference is so little it's hard to tell. I felt that the headphones sounded much better through the EF1 also, so that made it even harder to tell if there was a soundstage/positioning difference.

I only played MW2 online (hey the map pack came out, what was I supposed to do???) For me, playing with the K702s is like playing with a much better version of the A40 headset or AD700s (which are currently my go-to multiplayer headset until WTC gets me my gaming cable for the 702). Things are more clear, and there is a little more bass which is nice. As far as positioning, I felt that it was very good. I think better than the A40, and close to the AD700. With the 702s, I could very easily tell the direction, but the depth wasn't as clear. So I would know the guy is at 8 o'clock but the exact depth wasn't as readily available. However, after playing with them a bit, I really got used to it, and it became easier to tell the distance. It was pretty enjoyable overall with them too. I think part of the positioning thing is that they offer such clarity over the AD700 (my reference for positioning) that I could even more clearly tell position, but I've just become so accustomed to the AD700 that I've adjusted to where exactly someone is based on the sound. I think in time the 702 will have as good or better positioning (once I adjust a tad more). And of course the 702s sound much better overall, so it's a nice upgrade for gaming.

I think the positioning surpasses the HD600 as well (which impressed me for gaming), however the HD600 have a much fuller sound (more bass) which makes them sound more realistic and full engaging when playing. I would probably sacrifice a little positioning to use the HD600 as my main gaming cans instead if I had a good way to use a mic with them, but it's close enough that I will fully enjoy using my 702s for gaming when I get the cable to use the mic. It is possible that I'll continue to use the DT880 and HD600 for single player games though, just to enjoy some more bass.

So that about sums it up. If you asked me to rate my cans, it would be hard. I like them all for different reasons. I would say that the K702s offer a nice big accurate soundstage, and a piercing type of clarity that lends itself to really analyzing the music, but are definitely not the best all-arounders in terms of the genres they shine with. The DT880s have a very open and natural sound that is full and balanced, and are also very detailed and clear... there really isn't a major fault I have with them. The HD600s are very fun to listen to because there is a very engaging sweet spot with them in the vocal region/midrange piano/acoustic guitar that makes the sound palpable and a pleasure to listen to.

Hope you had fun reading all of this, lol. Sorry it got so long :o

No ass there.

<3

Sounds like the K702 has the same issues the AD700s. For such an expensive headphone, I'm glad I didn't get them. I prefer more overall balance. I want it all, bass AND clarity. The DT880s are right there for me. It seems like an overall improvement over the AD700s just won't cut it for a high end headphone.

I'd pay $100 for adjustable AD700, but not $250. I'd definitely want bass.

Return the DT770 and DT880 and just get the D7000... that is the goal you are working towards;)

They'd have to be AMAZING with the Mixamp for that price. :eek:

They low 25ohm impedance sounds appealing though. :D

...Now this is already getting long, but I'll throw in a few comments with regard to using the K702s for gaming.

I used them both with the mixamp alone, and with the EF1 amping the mixamp output. With the mixamp alone, I found them to be very similar in volume ability as the HD600. Basically, for single player gaming, they can get more than loud enough. Once you start mixing in voice with the voice/game dial, for my tastes, once I hit around 1:30 or 2 on the dial, that was the limit for me before the overall volume started to dip below my threshold and become too quiet. Since I generally need to keep the voice/game dial at 3 or 3:30 for gaming to clearly hear my friends, the K702 simply would not work for me out of the mixamp alone when gaming and chatting with friends. Out of the EF1, of course, there is plenty of volume. (Just a side-note, with the A40 and AD700 I can get plenty of volume at 3 or 3:30 for multiplayer gaming).

I didn't notice any significant difference in soundstage or positioning when amping the mixamp output with the EF1. Perhaps the mixamp offered slightly better positioning, but the difference is so little it's hard to tell. I felt that the headphones sounded much better through the EF1 also, so that made it even harder to tell if there was a soundstage/positioning difference.


Thanks for the review! I'm interested in the mixamp vs mixamp + EF1 difference. Acousticly, was it just louder, or did you feel like they were finally being driven properly with the EF1 inline and the sound was much better than with mixamp alone?

I don't have any issues with volume just using the mixamp, do you think it is a worthwhile excercise for me to test another amp to use with it? Does there seem to be enough difference in sound quality?

For me, playing with the K702s is like playing with a much better version of the A40 headset or AD700s (which are currently my go-to multiplayer headset until WTC gets me my gaming cable for the 702).

Was going to build & ship today... till I realized Markertek screwed up my order and left out the 1/4" Plug. I called, they're shipping out immediately. :mad:

Now I have to wait till the 1/4" gets here to use my new testing cable...
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/8dc722c9.jpg

Note: Anyone with the K702s have a Multimeter? ATB? I pulled the wiring diagram from the 'net... but I want to confirm before shipping any further cables...
Pin 1= Ground (Sheath)
Pin 2= Right (Ring)
Pin 3=Left (Tip)

Please confirm for me.

Thanks for the review! I'm interested in the mixamp vs mixamp + EF1 difference. Acousticly, was it just louder, or did you feel like they were finally being driven properly with the EF1 inline and the sound was much better than with mixamp alone?

I don't have any issues with volume just using the mixamp, do you think it is a worthwhile excercise for me to test another amp to use with it? Does there seem to be enough difference in sound quality?I will try to set up some tests to specifically pay more attention to this tonight. I did feel that they sounded better with the EF1 after the mixamp, but I don't remember well enough to quantify. Last night I very very briefly listened to music using the mixamp vs the EF1. Both were hooked up to the D4 DAC using the same high quality tracks I'm becoming familiar with to perform my tests. This was very brief, but going back and forth was quite noticeable, with the EF1 sounding quite a bit better. Right away the EF1 presented more detail, much more clarity and a bigger and more well defined soundstage. The mixamp really didn't sound that great to me TBH. I think that if I had only used the mixamp with the K702 instead, my review of the 702s would have been a little different. They really have the overall feel of being underamped when using the mixamp and sound like they have much cleaner, more powerful, better amplification using the EF1. Sound is cleaner, crisper, and clearer. If you've ever experienced an upgrade from a lower end amp that is struggling to using a more powerful and cleaner amp, even in home (or I guess car) audio, it's the same thing and same effect. I suspect when gaming, the improvements were similar using the EF1, but again, I was paying more attention to slaying noobs and the ability to perceive enemy positions rather than the nuances of the sound effects. To be honest, I would say that if your intent is for gaming, I wouldn't bother with another amp unless you have money to burn or you need more volume, or I guess if you play a lot of single player games and want better sound. If it's for music, I think the upgrade is definitely worthwhile.

And my disclaimer... I do think that it definitely does sound much better with the EF1, IMO, but it's not mindblowingly different to the point that you're going to jump up and down and simply not believe your ears. Going from the mixamp driving the 702 to the EF1 driving the 702 isn't as dramatic as going from the AD700 to the 702 for example, unless you factor in volume and how loud it can go cleanly. Sometimes it's hard to portray just how much difference some of the differences in audio can be. Once you hear them and know what to look for, it's hard to go back to the lesser system, and it's easy to use words like "much better", but to people who aren't really paying close attention, haven't done a lot of critical listening, or have high expectations, the differences may not be worth it to them, or maybe not even noticeable at all. I actually usually find that it's more dramatic going from the "better" system to "worse" system than the other way around. A case of "you don't know what you have until it's gone". Or maybe it's a matter of expectations. Anyway I do hesitate to tell anyone to go out and buy an expensive desktop amp and then have them be disappointed that they feel the sound is only marginally better. I would be very surprised if someone couldn't hear the differences between the mixamp and EF1 and recognize that the EF1 sounds better, but I wouldn't be surprised if most (non-audiophile types) thought it wasn't worth it given that a proper amp costs more than the headphones themselves. If that makes sense.

Was going to build & ship today... till I realized Markertek screwed up my order and left out the 1/4" Plug. I called, they're shipping out immediately. :mad:

Now I have to wait till the 1/4" gets here to use my new testing cable...
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/8dc722c9.jpg

Note: Anyone with the K702s have a Multimeter? ATB? I pulled the wiring diagram from the 'net... but I want to confirm before shipping any further cables...
Pin 1= Ground (Sheath)
Pin 2= Right (Ring)
Pin 3=Left (Tip)

Please confirm for me.No problem! Just let me know when you get it and/or finish it and/or need payment :)

I'll check my K702s for the pinout when I get home if no one has reported back before then.

No problem! Just let me know when you get it and/or finish it and/or need payment :)

I'll check my K702s for the pinout when I get home if no one has reported back before then.

Cool beans!

Note: Anyone with the K702s have a Multimeter? ATB? I pulled the wiring diagram from the 'net... but I want to confirm before shipping any further cables...
Pin 1= Ground (Sheath)
Pin 2= Right (Ring)
Pin 3=Left (Tip)

Please confirm for me.
That is the correct pinout.

That is the correct pinout.

Thanks!

I'm gonna replace the headband on the AD700s with something similar to the HPXs.

Shin, Get some of these... HD660 (http://www.superlux.com.tw/new/html/products/headphones/HD660.html)

I was at the local bar/club last week for a buddy's concert and was peeking over at the sound guy's booth. Cool board, blah blah blah, cost him $50k for the thing alone. Pointed out his reference mic and how he's tweaking things differently for a hip hop concert vs. a rock concert and then for some weird reason I felt compelled to ask him what kind of headphones he had.

He pulls his bag out and out comes a DT770 Pro version.

DT770....YEAH BOI!!!!

I was at the local bar/club last week for a buddy's concert and was peeking over at the sound guy's booth. Cool board, blah blah blah, cost him $50k for the thing alone. Pointed out his reference mic and how he's tweaking things differently for a hip hop concert vs. a rock concert and then for some weird reason I felt compelled to ask him what kind of headphones he had.

He pulls his bag out and out comes a DT770 Pro version.

DT770....YEAH BOI!!!!

I'll be joining that camp hopefully by the end of the week. :D

Anyone interested in a used pair of D2000 there are some on headfi right now for $200.

Anyone interested in a used pair of D2000 there are some on headfi right now for $200.

Or new on Amazon for $238, delivered.:)

Or new on Amazon for $238, delivered.:)

oh, good deal! I thought those were selling for around $299.

Wood cupped D2000 are uber Sweet!

dt770/250 for $110 shipped

I'll be joining that camp hopefully by the end of the week. :D


Niiice!


---oofffffff ttttoooppppiiiiicccccc---

I've never really been a "real" sneaker addict but man, these TS Supernatural Creators are frigging AMAZING to play basketball in I'm considering buying another pair to back them up and then another pair as just a collectors item never to be used.

I'm a terrible basketball wanna be player but man, I feel like I can play for HOURS in these. Kinda like how I've found my headphones for a while, I've found my workout shoes for the foreseeable future.

Kind of like how the 770s are top notch comfort, same with the shoes. Love the bass of the 770s, kinda like the lock down grip of the hardwood feel of these supernaturals. They're friggin sweet!

Yes, I just pulled an analogy between shoes AND headphones...

dt770/250 for $110 shipped

KBI says the 80ohm has more bass. Find me a DT770 pro 80 for $110, and I'll return the ones I ordered for $200. :D

Niiice!


---oofffffff ttttoooppppiiiiicccccc---

I've never really been a "real" sneaker addict but man, these TS Supernatural Creators are frigging AMAZING to play basketball in I'm considering buying another pair to back them up and then another pair as just a collectors item never to be used.

I'm a terrible basketball wanna be player but man, I feel like I can play for HOURS in these. Kinda like how I've found my headphones for a while, I've found my workout shoes for the foreseeable future.

Kind of like how the 770s are top notch comfort, same with the shoes. Love the bass of the 770s, kinda like the lock down grip of the hardwood feel of these supernaturals. They're friggin sweet!

Yes, I just pulled an analogy between shoes AND headphones...

Lotta money... I don't normally go above $60 for sneaks... but wife picked me up some Ecko for $90... and those damn things broke in like... 6-7 mos. So, I'm back to Skechers, my favorite brand anyway. Though, I'm not bad in b-ball... but I know I can't keep up with the young guys... I can shoot like a mad man though, so hopefully I don't have to run much... :D

Shin for your next headphone purchase you should treat yourself to a udac. Only $99.

Shin for your next headphone purchase you should treat yourself to a udac. Only $99.

Booya! I second that thought!
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/MonMar01101341EST2010.jpg
Single best Audio purchase I've made thus far!

Shin for your next headphone purchase you should treat yourself to a udac. Only $99.

http://www.amazon.com/NuForce-Icon-uDAC-USB-headphone/dp/B002VNIRWM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1270595482&sr=1-2

Is this it? Will this power a 250 ohm headphone? I mean, I'm not getting a 250ohm headphone, but I'd like the uDAC or whatever to drive the DT770 Pro 80ohm well. Would this be all I need? I've been pretty happy with just the Mixamp and Fiio E5 so far, but I definitely hit a limit with them on certain devices like the PSP.

So how would I use this in conjunction with the Mixamp?

I'm not sure the UDAC is what I need. I need one that can be used WITHOUT a computer. I don't care for portability (as in I don't need one for my phone on the go or anything of the sort). I need something to help power my hungrier headphones with ANY device. I don't care if the device has to be plugged in to the wall or through USB or something.

http://www.amazon.com/NuForce-Icon-uDAC-USB-headphone/dp/B002VNIRWM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1270595482&sr=1-2

Is this it? Will this power a 250 ohm headphone? I mean, I'm not getting a 250ohm headphone, but I'd like the uDAC or whatever to drive the DT770 Pro 80ohm well. Would this be all I need? I've been pretty happy with just the Mixamp and Fiio E5 so far, but I definitely hit a limit with them on certain devices like the PSP.

edit: I'm gonna get it then... hopefully this is all I will need for quite some time.

So how would I use this in conjunction with the Mixamp?

It'll power up to 300 ohm.

It'll power up to 300 ohm.

Errm, read my last post again, I edited it. I'm still not sure.

I don't care for portability (as in I don't need one for my phone on the go or anything of the sort). I need something to help power my hungrier headphones with ANY device. I don't care if the device has to be plugged in to the wall or through USB or something.

In that case....

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/iamjackspictures/wa5_front.jpg

The uDAC is meant really to be used as a DAC. It has a headphone amplifier and it supposedly can do decent with certain higher impedance headphones, but is more ideal for lower impedance headphones. The basic purpose of a DAC is to make the headphone output of your computer sound much much better than it does right now. The uDAC wouldn't be used with the mixamp or your phone or anything but a computer. But now that you are getting nice headphones, you should really be making the most of them, and the uDAC is a great start at $99. It would be really easy to resell if you don't like it and can't return it. It also scales pretty well as a DAC too if you ever look at a different or more powerful headphone amplifier.

In that case....

I LIKE, too bad they cost an arm and a leg! I've seen that before, but who makes it again? ...and what is the price, $2500?

I LIKE, too bad they cost an arm and a leg! I've seen that before, but who makes it again? ...and what is the price, $2500?Woo audio WA5 (http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa5.html). Great looking amps, but out of my price range starting @ $3150 :eek: But of course you need to max it out for a little over $5k :p

Woo audio WA5 (http://www.wooaudio.com/products/wa5.html). Great looking amps, but out of my price range starting @ $3150 :eek: But of course you need to max it out for a little over $5k :p

Yea, I'm thinking that all I want is a Tube Amp w/nice closed headphones and I'm all set for awhile. I think I'm gonna get rid of my HD428s on eBay or Head-Fi. They sound good, but the cushions hurt my ears (I feel like Shin or something)...

Wow. This thread goes off topic quickly. I tried to read it but daaamn.. 230 pages??
Look, I'm considering getting 5.1 headphones for my Xbox 360. Price range around $100-$250. Wireless if they actually work, otherwise wired; which I assume is best. Can I get a quick recap of what was decided here as the best?? Want a nice mic with it and comfort for up to 6 hour sessions too.

Thanks guys. :)

A used BADA12 would be a great start.. Awesome Hybrid amp.. Seen some sold as low as 225.00...IMO, they spanked the much costlier HR2.. It will take the 702/880 to a whole nother level from mix amp & Filo, etc.. I got immense pleasure gaming on the Bada12 & the Sen 216 pro...

lets have a 5-10 grand headphone gaming rig shoot out!

KBI says the 80ohm has more bass. Find me a DT770 pro 80 for $110, and I'll return the ones I ordered for $200. :D
It's true.. What headfi says as well..

Wow. This thread goes off topic quickly. I tried to read it but daaamn.. 230 pages??
Look, I'm considering getting 5.1 headphones for my Xbox 360. Price range around $100-$250. Wireless if they actually work, otherwise wired; which I assume is best. Can I get a quick recap of what was decided here as the best?? Want a nice mic with it and comfort for up to 6 hour sessions too.

Thanks guys. :)

Multi-driver phones don't work well, so stay away from those. I say, get a Tritton AX720... and then RUN! Otherwise, you'll get KICKED in the Wallet... good and HARD! You've been warned!:D

Wow. This thread goes off topic quickly. I tried to read it but daaamn.. 230 pages??
Look, I'm considering getting 5.1 headphones for my Xbox 360. Price range around $100-$250. Wireless if they actually work, otherwise wired; which I assume is best. Can I get a quick recap of what was decided here as the best?? Want a nice mic with it and comfort for up to 6 hour sessions too.

Thanks guys. :)

ok, for starters, theres really no such thing as a 5.1 headphone... sure there are gimmicky headsets with 3 or 4 drivers per cup, but they're generally crap (hpx is an exception, but for xbox it doesnt use all those gimmicky drivers, and you need the mixamp for it)

most cheap options are 2.0ch with no dolby processing or surround simulation... the two best are probably these:

$80 - tb px21 http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/efp21/home.aspx
ax720

$75 - AX180 - http://www.amazon.com/Tritton-TRIAX180-Universal-Gaming-Headset/dp/B002P77432/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1270602142&sr=8-1

in this category, i'd go with the TB, but with your price range, i wouldnt choose either.

you basically have 4 options, i'll rank them from best to worst in terms of pure performance, sound, etc.

#1. Audio Technica AD700, Astro Mixamp, Generic mic (and a way to attach it, most people use the labtec LVA-7330 and velcro). This is the best performance, but probably the worst look with the most amount of work (which is very little btw). $220 est.

#2. Turtle Beach HPX headset, Astro Mixamp, Mic included w/ hpx, easy setup, looks good, good comfort $210 est.

#3. The astro mixamp A40 package, this includes the headphones, mic, mixamp, etc.... good setup, pricey though as the headphones arent worth anywhere near as much as offering #1 or #2.... priciest option as well at the very top of your budget. $250 est.

#4. The AX720, not as advanced, well built, comfortable, or as good performing as the other, but still a solid option, good looks, all in one package, great pricing. $130 est.




thats about it... you can always take formula #1 and put whatever headphone you want there, but you wont find a better gaming headphone for the price.

IMO, the only options are #1 and #2.... if sound is more important, go with #1, if looks or ease of use (not needing to get a seperate mic and attach it), go with #2... either way you wont be disappointed.... also, i should note that people with weak necks and tiny heads have complained about ad700's fitment :D

Bah, the uDAC isn't what I'm looking for then. I'm looking for something more along the lines of a superpowered upgrade to the Fiio E5 (something to drive some hungrier headphones AWAY from a computer, which can be chained with the Mixamp for gaming). I know KBI said the Audio GD Fun, but MAN is that thing costly.

If I can't find an affordable solution and find the DT770/80 to lack volume, I may end up going the cheapsaket route and connecting the DT770s to the Fiio E5 that's mated with the Mixamp. Hopefully that will be a temp fix while using them.

Hell, perhaps I NEED the uDAC, as my headphone out on my netbook sounds like complete crap and tends to crackle, pop, hiss and all other sorts of bad things randomly.

And yes, STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM 5.1 SURROUND HEADPHONES. The HPX/HPA2 is the exception as they don't use all those drivers with the mixamp. I myself bought the Tritton Ax Pros and heard firsthand how awful multi-speaker headphones sound. A GOOD 2 channel headphone + Mixamp = PURE GAMING BLISS compared to the crappy true surround headphones.

Oh yeah, I went to BB and saw the Turtle Beach PX21. MAN, those cans are SEXEH! I wonder how they sound.

#2. Turtle Beach HPX headset, Astro Mixamp, Mic included w/ hpx, easy setup, looks good, good comfort $210 est.


This is all you need! :D:D:D:D

Bah, the uDAC isn't what I'm looking for then. I'm looking for something more along the lines of a superpowered upgrade to the Fiio E5 (something to drive some hungrier headphones AWAY from a computer, which can be chained with the Mixamp for gaming). I know KBI said the Audio GD Fun, but MAN is that thing costly.

If I can't find an affordable solution and find the DT770/80 to lack volume, I may end up going the cheapsaket route and connecting the DT770s to the Fiio E5 that's mated with the Mixamp. Hopefully that will be a temp fix while using them.

Hell, perhaps I NEED the uDAC, as my headphone out on my netbook sounds like complete crap and tends to crackle, pop, hiss and all other sorts of bad things randomly.

And yes, STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM 5.1 SURROUND HEADPHONES. The HPX/HPA2 is the exception as they don't use all those drivers with the mixamp. I myself bought the Tritton Ax Pros and heard firsthand how awful multi-speaker headphones sound. A GOOD 2 channel headphone + Mixamp = PURE GAMING BLISS compared to the crappy true surround headphones.

Oh yeah, I went to BB and saw the Turtle Beach PX21. MAN, those cans are SEXEH! I wonder how they sound.

Talk to PJ, he has a iBasso D4. That might be what you're looking for.

Bah, the uDAC isn't what I'm looking for then. I'm looking for something more along the lines of a superpowered upgrade to the Fiio E5 (something to drive some hungrier headphones AWAY from a computer, which can be chained with the Mixamp for gaming). I know KBI said the Audio GD Fun, but MAN is that thing costly.

If I can't find an affordable solution and find the DT770/80 to lack volume, I may end up going the cheapsaket route and connecting the DT770s to the Fiio E5 that's mated with the Mixamp. Hopefully that will be a temp fix while using them.

Hell, perhaps I NEED the uDAC, as my headphone out on my netbook sounds like complete crap and tends to crackle, pop, hiss and all other sorts of bad things randomly.

And yes, STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM 5.1 SURROUND HEADPHONES. The HPX/HPA2 is the exception as they don't use all those drivers with the mixamp. I myself bought the Tritton Ax Pros and heard firsthand how awful multi-speaker headphones sound. A GOOD 2 channel headphone + Mixamp = PURE GAMING BLISS compared to the crappy true surround headphones.

Oh yeah, I went to BB and saw the Turtle Beach PX21. MAN, those cans are SEXEH! I wonder how they sound.The udac out of your laptop will sound much better than the headphone out does now, especially if it has those problems. If you can hear the difference between different mp3 bitrates, it's a similar effect. Figure that even with lossless files, your headphone out of your laptop is like 128kbps and using the udac is like upgrading it to 320kbps or something. Maybe that's a bad comparison, but that's the idea. If you don't ever listen from your computer, it's not worth it, but if you do listen from your computer, you'd be cheating yourself not to get a dac with the headphones you have IMO.

If you're really looking for a better portable headphone amp than the fiio, what's your budget? The D4 ($219) is pretty powerful and portable and sounds great, plus it has a nice DAC in it too so you wouldn't need the udac. It's a great value IMO. The only downside for portability is that it doesn't have a built in rechargeable battery, so unless you're near a usb port to power the amp, you would need to power it with a standard 9V battery. It can last quite a while per battery, but you would need to buy a rechargeable 9V battery setup if you wanted rechargeable. The ibasso T3 ($119) is a great tiny portable amp that supposedly sounds awesome for it's size and price also, and has a built in rechargeable battery, but it's not as powerful as the D4 and doesn't have a DAC.

If you're talking pure volume and you don't care how good it sounds, the fiio is probably still your best bet especially for the price. It puts out pretty good power for it's size and class. I think the power of the T3 is a little more, and the power of the D4 is quite a bit more, so you can expect a little more volume potential from the T3 and a lot more from the D4. I know the D4 gets my 300ohm HD600s plenty loud anyway. If you're looking for the amp specifically to power more powerful headphones, the T3 probably isn't the ticket. If you want a little more power than you have now and also to improve the sound quality, the T3 is probably a good fit. If you can stretch your budget to the D4, it would provide a lot more power, sound even better yet, and have the benefit of being a good dac as well.

i returned the tritton axpros last week and thought they sounded okay. i had the typical mic problem that i read about before buying so i purchased them at costco about 4 months ago. i put them in a grocery bag and they took them back and gave me cash. So, on Friday i ordered the astro a30 headset package.

You should check out the new A30s. They are getting really great reviews, just came out last month, and their portability looks really awesome compared to the A40s. Astro is known for their quality so I'm crossing my fingers. They also let you return them within 15 days if you aren't satisfied. I should get mine this week and will let you know. I plan to use them for xbox 360, PS3, and laptop.

Wow. This thread goes off topic quickly. I tried to read it but daaamn.. 230 pages??
Look, I'm considering getting 5.1 headphones for my Xbox 360. Price range around $100-$250. Wireless if they actually work, otherwise wired; which I assume is best. Can I get a quick recap of what was decided here as the best?? Want a nice mic with it and comfort for up to 6 hour sessions too.

Thanks guys. :)Agree with others that have posted. Your best two bets are to either buy the Tritton AX720 for $130, or if you can afford it, the next logical and easy upgrade is to get the astro mixamp ($130) and the turtle beach HPX headset ($80). Both of these setups would give you the awesome surround sound effect of dolby headphone. Just make sure whatever you get uses dolby headphone, not anything else, including using 2 or more speakers in each headphone to give you "surround sound". It sounds like crap compared to dolby headphone.

Also make sure your 360 has the adapter or hdmi kit that breaks out the optical audio so you can run the optical audio to the Tritton or mixamp. If you are currently using the optical audio with something now and you'd like to keep using it along with your headphone setup, you'll need an optical splitter. I don't use one but if you need it ask here and some guys that do use them will recommend you a good one.

The udac out of your laptop will sound much better than the headphone out does now, especially if it has those problems. If you can hear the difference between different mp3 bitrates, it's a similar effect. Figure that even with lossless files, your headphone out of your laptop is like 128kbps and using the udac is like upgrading it to 320kbps or something. Maybe that's a bad comparison, but that's the idea. If you don't ever listen from your computer, it's not worth it, but if you do listen from your computer, you'd be cheating yourself not to get a dac with the headphones you have IMO.

If you're really looking for a better portable headphone amp than the fiio, what's your budget? The D4 ($219) is pretty powerful and portable and sounds great, plus it has a nice DAC in it too so you wouldn't need the udac. It's a great value IMO. The only downside for portability is that it doesn't have a built in rechargeable battery, so unless you're near a usb port to power the amp, you would need to power it with a standard 9V battery. It can last quite a while per battery, but you would need to buy a rechargeable 9V battery setup if you wanted rechargeable. The ibasso T3 ($119) is a great tiny portable amp that supposedly sounds awesome for it's size and price also, and has a built in rechargeable battery, but it's not as powerful as the D4 and doesn't have a DAC.

If you're talking pure volume and you don't care how good it sounds, the fiio is probably still your best bet especially for the price. It puts out pretty good power for it's size and class. I think the power of the T3 is a little more, and the power of the D4 is quite a bit more, so you can expect a little more volume potential from the T3 and a lot more from the D4. I know the D4 gets my 300ohm HD600s plenty loud anyway. If you're looking for the amp specifically to power more powerful headphones, the T3 probably isn't the ticket. If you want a little more power than you have now and also to improve the sound quality, the T3 is probably a good fit. If you can stretch your budget to the D4, it would provide a lot more power, sound even better yet, and have the benefit of being a good dac as well.

Great, sounds like the D4 is what I'm looking for. The Fiio is barely loud enough for my phone and PSP, but plenty loud for my netbook. I'm gonna assume that since the DT770 Pro is 80ohm compared to the 32/40 ohm cans I have been using, the Fiio won't juice them properly on my phone or PSP whenever I get the urge to use the DT770s on them. I quite REALLY enjoy the EQs that the PSP has especially the Jazz Preset. I like it more than whatever the netbook has to offer with Winamp and other ones, IMHO.

I don't mind running the D4 off a USB for power, since I'm almost always near a power source/something with a USB port when I listen to music/game/watch movies anyway. Same with the Mixamp and Fiio. They are always plugged in to a power source. For truly portable listening, I use the RE0s with a cheap-o Radio Shack in-line volume control, which works fine. No need for any amp.

I'm definitely considering the D4, but I'm first gonna wait on the DT770s to see how they sound with what I have. If I'm satisfied, I'll wait a while until I get the D4, but it's most definitely a future purchase unless something better comes along at around that price point. Where can I get the D4 anyway?

I LIKE, too bad they cost an arm and a leg! I've seen that before, but who makes it again? ...and what is the price, $2500?

It sounds even better than it looks. That's the setup I heard at the meet with a Lavry (can't remember if it was the DA10 or Gold) and some HD600... and yes I found it more impressive than the Apache and Supra.

I owned an Single Power PPX3 Slam for a while and had some nice tubes for it. Ran it with my Grado PS-1's and it was heaven... there is really something magical about tube amps when matched with the right cans.

Great, sounds like the D4 is what I'm looking for. The Fiio is barely loud enough for my phone and PSP, but plenty loud for my netbook. I'm gonna assume that since the DT770 Pro is 80ohm compared to the 32/40 ohm cans I have been using, the Fiio won't juice them properly on my phone or PSP whenever I get the urge to use the DT770s on them. I quite REALLY enjoy the EQs that the PSP has especially the Jazz Preset. I like it more than whatever the netbook has to offer with Winamp and other ones, IMHO.

I don't mind running the D4 off a USB for power, since I'm almost always near a power source/something with a USB port when I listen to music/game/watch movies anyway. Same with the Mixamp and Fiio. They are always plugged in to a power source. For truly portable listening, I use the RE0s with a cheap-o Radio Shack in-line volume control, which works fine. No need for any amp.

I'm definitely considering the D4, but I'm first gonna wait on the DT770s to see how they sound with what I have. If I'm satisfied, I'll wait a while until I get the D4, but it's most definitely a future purchase unless something better comes along at around that price point. Where can I get the D4 anyway?You can get it here (http://www.ibasso.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=44). It's currently out of stock but has been going in and out of stock since it launched. It's pretty popular given the value.

It sounds even better than it looks. That's the setup I heard at the meet with a Lavry (can't remember if it was the DA10 or Gold) and some HD600... and yes I found it more impressive than the Apache and Supra.

I owned an Single Power PPX3 Slam for a while and had some nice tubes for it. Ran it with my Grado PS-1's and it was heaven... there is really something magical about tube amps when matched with the right cans.It seems like you've owned tons of great gear at one point or another... but if you don't mind my asking, what made you unload everything? I know you kept the p51 and a few great headphones/IEMs, which I'm guessing match great with it, but I'm still curious if you kept any of the desktop amps or more interestingly, any sources?

It seems like you've owned tons of great gear at one point or another... but if you don't mind my asking, what made you unload everything? I know you kept the p51 and a few great headphones/IEMs, which I'm guessing match great with it, but I'm still curious if you kept any of the desktop amps or more interestingly, any sources?

Once I had my little girl, bought a house and a decent HT my listening habits dramatically changed. Music at home I now listen to through my speakers and my headphone listening mostly happens at work (office). I really enjoy relaxing and listening at home with headphones but the free me time I have now I enjoy watching bluray flicks more. I sold my PS-1's to buy a new rifle (another hobby) and switched to only closed headphones for work. Now I'm looking to upgrade my desktop rig since my headphone rig needs have shifted from portable to transportable... up and down up and down:D

btw - how are you liking those K702? I'm seriously thinking of picking up a Graham Slee Solo for my D5000 and K702.

You can get it here (http://www.ibasso.com/en/products/show.asp?ID=44). It's currently out of stock but has been going in and out of stock since it launched. It's pretty popular given the value.

Ah okay. I'll keep an eye on this website for sure. :o

Once I had my little girl, bought a house and a decent HT my listening habits dramatically changed. Music at home I now listen to through my speakers and my headphone listening mostly happens at work (office). I really enjoy relaxing and listening at home with headphones but the free me time I have now I enjoy watching bluray flicks more. I sold my PS-1's to buy a new rifle (another hobby) and switched to only closed headphones for work. Now I'm looking to upgrade my desktop rig since my headphone rig needs have shifted from portable to transportable... up and down up and down:D

btw - how are you liking those K702? I'm seriously thinking of picking up a Graham Slee Solo for my D5000 and K702.I figured it was something along those lines! I'd definitely love to upgrade my home theater if I could, but it's tough in a condo because I have to respect the neighbors :mad:, so I don't want to dump too much into something I can't fully enjoy. Another negative is that comparable equipment for home theater is orders of magnitude more expensive!

Regarding the K702s... did you see my lengthy review here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18438772#post18438772)? It about sums up my feeling on them. Anyway, they sound different enough from the others I have to warrant keeping. That is until I sell everything and buy T1s lol :p Also, with the mic-ready cable I'm getting from WTC, the plan is that they will replace the AD700s as my gaming headset, so maybe they will survive the great T1-funding yardsale.

I figured it was something along those lines! I'd definitely love to upgrade my home theater if I could, but it's tough in a condo because I have to respect the neighbors :mad:, so I don't want to dump too much into something I can't fully enjoy. Another negative is that comparable equipment for home theater is orders of magnitude more expensive!

Regarding the K702s... did you see my lengthy review here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=18438772#post18438772)? It about sums up my feeling on them. Anyway, they sound different enough from the others I have to warrant keeping. That is until I sell everything and buy T1s lol :p Also, with the mic-ready cable I'm getting from WTC, the plan is that they will replace the AD700s as my gaming headset, so maybe they will survive the great T1-funding yardsale.

Wow, not sure how I missed that but thanks for posting the link.

I agree with a lot of what you said about the K702 however I did not find the vocals to be as piercing as you did. The DT880's are a smother headphone that do sound fuller but I still feel like their soundstage has a certain boundary that can be audible where as the K702 seem more limitless to my ears. There were times I felt there was something somewhat unnatural about the vocals on the K702. I think your statement about how they sound with rock and metal and your tube amps is probably a pretty good reiteration that these are not a one size fits all headphone. While the DT880's do not excel with rock or metal IMO they are much more forgiving to these and other genres than the K701/2 are. This is where you start to decide if you want different cans for different purposes. I think guitar strings have a much more natural sound on the DT880 but violin, viola, fiddle, cello, etc. sound much better to me on the K702. I also preferred the K702 for classical by a large margin and for Jazz, Latin, any and Big Band by a smaller margin. Swing, Blues, Folk, etc. I liked better on the DT880.

In short I don't really see the value in owning both the DT880 and the K702 for my tastes. I'd prefer to have headphones that differ more from each other and excel with certain music. I can see myself reaching for the K702 for classical, jazz, latin, and big band and then grabbing my D5000 for rock, metal, electronic, swing, blues, etc. etc. etc.

Anyways, thanks for sharing your impressions, sounds like you are enjoying trying these things out. Since you have some headphones that do share some similar characteristics I'd recommend maybe trying some SR225's if you can find a good deal on some or even some Denons.

Wow, not sure how I missed that but thanks for posting the link.

I agree with a lot of what you said about the K702 however I did not find the vocals to be as piercing as you did. The DT880's are a smother headphone that do sound fuller but I still feel like their soundstage has a certain boundary that can be audible where as the K702 seem more limitless to my ears. There were times I felt there was something somewhat unnatural about the vocals on the K702. I think your statement about how they sound with rock and metal and your tube amps is probably a pretty good reiteration that these are not a one size fits all headphone. While the DT880's do not excel with rock or metal IMO they are much more forgiving to these and other genres than the K701/2 are. This is where you start to decide if you want different cans for different purposes. I think guitar strings have a much more natural sound on the DT880 but violin, viola, fiddle, cello, etc. sound much better to me on the K702. I also preferred the K702 for classical by a large margin and for Jazz, Latin, any and Big Band by a smaller margin. Swing, Blues, Folk, etc. I liked better on the DT880.

In short I don't really see the value in owning both the DT880 and the K702 for my tastes. I'd prefer to have headphones that differ more from each other and excel with certain music. I can see myself reaching for the K702 for classical, jazz, latin, and big band and then grabbing my D5000 for rock, metal, electronic, swing, blues, etc. etc. etc.

Anyways, thanks for sharing your impressions, sounds like you are enjoying trying these things out. Since you have some headphones that do share some similar characteristics I'd recommend maybe trying some SR225's if you can find a good deal on some or even some Denons.I can understand what you mean about the soundstage of the K702 vs DT800. Not to say that the DT880 soundstage is small, because it's really not, but the 702 does reach further in all dimensions and seems effortless in doing so. Actually effortless is probably a good way to describe everything it does. Every sound it does sounds effortless.

I guess it's possible that the piercing vocal range when I push the volume is a function of the particular tube I've been using in the EF1. I might play around a little with a few of the other tubes I have and see if it changes this effect.

In terms of the naturalness of the headphones, I have to admit that the K702 lulled me over for a good bit. I listened to it almost exclusively after I got it, continually trying to evaluate it. I began to think that certain passages from some of my test tracks (almost all of which include "real" instruments like the piano, violin, cello, acoustic guitar, etc, etc) sounded more natural. It wasn't until I put the DT880s back on that I realized how much lower end weight truly was missing and how much this impact the natural sound of some of these instruments lower registers. As I mentioned, I think a lot of the range of the piano sounds better on the K702, particularly the higher notes where IMO the difference in naturalness becomes great and the K702 sounds incredibly realistic. But then on some of the lower notes, the edge starts to go to the DT880. For the violin and fiddle, being that it never hits all that low, I do agree the K702 is better with it. For the cello, I think I like the DT880 better since it tends toward the lower spectrum where I think the DT880 shines. And then for instruments like the bass or double bass, the DT880 really pulls away IMO. For acoustic guitar, I don't think either nail it as well as the HD600. I'm not even sure that the HD600 is the most "realistic" in this area, but for sure is the best and sweetest to listen to acoustic guitar on. You literally feel the energy of the acoustic guitar in your body and I find myself wanting to reach into the air to grab the notes. Between the 702 and DT880 though, for acoustic guitar, I would also give the edge to the DT880. I'm not sure either one nails it perfectly, but I feel that the brightness of the K702 takes a little bit away from it and the warmer sound of the DT880 suits the instrument better.

Your assessment of the genres the two headphones are good with is similar for me, but the lack of low end weight in the K702 makes me take pause and not able to blanket statement the genres so easily. For most classical I think the K702 is probably better in general, but I would still grab the DT880 just in hopes that there is some sweet bass or double bass action going on, or maybe some tasty cello. Really that's my thing with the K702. They are so bright and clear and sound great, but the lack of low end weight and impact makes me feel like I need to be changing headphones more frequently, like one song suits them perfectly, then the next song in the same genre I feel is lacking a little something (in the low end). This concern is then confirmed when I switch the DT880s.

I can see your dilemma between the DT880 and K702 though. They sound quite different from each other, but at the same time, they suit similar genres, especially with respect to the D5000 that you also have. For me, if I were to part with one, it would be the 702s because I feel that the DT880s are more well rounded, but I would miss the piercing clarity for really analyzing certain tracks or amplifying the effect of changing tubes or opamps (or cables for that matter). But since I'm making them my gaming headphones, it's a great reason to keep them :) Honestly, I think my ideal headphones would be if the DT880s and the K702s had an even higher fidelity baby. I'm hoping that's what the T1 (or HD800, etc) is.

The SR225 are (were?) next on my list for headphones, or at least equal to the D2000/D5000 to try. After one or both of those, I think it's going to be a sale of all my headphones to buy some T1s or HD800s. Before all of that though, the next big thing on my list is definitely a new source. Then it will be a decision of whether to build a balanced beta22, buy an SR225 and/or D2k/5k, or maybe try an entry to mid level stax setup. After getting the EF1 I've also been looking at the HE-5 a bit too as some orthodynamic phones that supposedly sound great, and not too expensive in comparison to the HD800 they apparently can compete with and even best on some levels. So many options and interests, so little money lol.

Great, sounds like the D4 is what I'm looking for. The Fiio is barely loud enough for my phone and PSP, but plenty loud for my netbook. I'm gonna assume that since the DT770 Pro is 80ohm compared to the 32/40 ohm cans I have been using, the Fiio won't juice them properly on my phone or PSP whenever I get the urge to use the DT770s on them. I quite REALLY enjoy the EQs that the PSP has especially the Jazz Preset. I like it more than whatever the netbook has to offer with Winamp and other ones, IMHO.

I don't mind running the D4 off a USB for power, since I'm almost always near a power source/something with a USB port when I listen to music/game/watch movies anyway. Same with the Mixamp and Fiio. They are always plugged in to a power source. For truly portable listening, I use the RE0s with a cheap-o Radio Shack in-line volume control, which works fine. No need for any amp.

I'm definitely considering the D4, but I'm first gonna wait on the DT770s to see how they sound with what I have. If I'm satisfied, I'll wait a while until I get the D4, but it's most definitely a future purchase unless something better comes along at around that price point. Where can I get the D4 anyway?

Shin, if you don't necessarily need a amp/Dac unit, I've been thinking about selling my Ibasso P3+. It has the same or a bit better amp section as the D4 (I've never been able to fully get clarification on that part). Not USB powered though, it's either battery or plug in - not sure if that's important to you or not. Anyway thought I'd throw it out there since you're looking at the Ibassos.

Got my 702 modded cable from WTC yesterday. Well, actually it came Monday but I didn't realize it. The package sat on my front porch in the rain all night. :( Thankfully, WTC packaged it in a ziplock!

The cable seems great so far, I had no problems with it and it looks really nice. The only minor comment I have after using it is that it is a bit stiff at the headset connector end of it, such that when you sit down the cable is kind of pushing into my upper chest instead of laying down on my chest. Slight though. Just kinda lets you know it's there every once in a while when you move around. But I thought I'd get it out there in case it is an improvement WTC can make on future cables.

The other thing I noticed is that the GT mic swivels a bit too easy in the 3.5mm connector. But that is just the way the connection between the two is, nothing to do with how WTC created the cable.

Good playin' MW2 with you last night WTC, and thanks for putting this together for me!

Shin, if you don't necessarily need a amp/Dac unit, I've been thinking about selling my Ibasso P3+. It has the same or a bit better amp section as the D4 (I've never been able to fully get clarification on that part). Not USB powered though, it's either battery or plug in - not sure if that's important to you or not. Anyway thought I'd throw it out there since you're looking at the Ibassos.Vs the D4 (amp), the P3+ has just a touch more power (250mW/channel into 32 ohms vs 230mW for the D4) and is more customizable in what can be easily changed and upgraded inside. IIRC it reportedly sounds as good or slightly better than the D4 (stock vs stock).

Shin, if you don't necessarily need a amp/Dac unit, I've been thinking about selling my Ibasso P3+. It has the same or a bit better amp section as the D4 (I've never been able to fully get clarification on that part). Not USB powered though, it's either battery or plug in - not sure if that's important to you or not. Anyway thought I'd throw it out there since you're looking at the Ibassos.

Thx coyote, I'll definitely keep this in mind. It looks like a pretty awesome amp. It's just that now that I know EXACTLY what a DAC is (I didn't have a clue until yesterday, lmao), the D4 sounds like EXACTLY what I need, since it can be both a portable amp, and the replacement for my incredibly crappy headphone out on my netbook. My netbook WOULD be my main music player if the headphone out didn't have so many issues. The D4 would be the all in one item that I'd need for the long run.

Got my 702 modded cable from WTC yesterday. Well, actually it came Monday but I didn't realize it. The package sat on my front porch in the rain all night. :( Thankfully, WTC packaged it in a ziplock!

The cable seems great so far, I had no problems with it and it looks really nice. The only minor comment I have after using it is that it is a bit stiff at the headset connector end of it, such that when you sit down the cable is kind of pushing into my upper chest instead of laying down on my chest. Slight though. Just kinda lets you know it's there every once in a while when you move around. But I thought I'd get it out there in case it is an improvement WTC can make on future cables.

The other thing I noticed is that the GT mic swivels a bit too easy in the 3.5mm connector. But that is just the way the connection between the two is, nothing to do with how WTC created the cable.

Good playin' MW2 with you last night WTC, and thanks for putting this together for me!

I was thinking about how stiff the "Y" is on the headset side. I think what I might do is actually give it 6" of length and put that in 1/8" Nylon braiding. Then, the only stiff part will be the actual connector instead of the adapter and 2" below that (which is currently wrapped in Shrink Tube).

I tried a few different connections for the Mic, but the Neutrik one was the best. I'm gonna look into how I can make the move less, but unfortunately, that will demand that whatever Mic I migrate to, will have to become part of the cable. (as I'm thinking if I somehow notch it or something). Maybe a thin rubber washer might work as well (on the plastic part, not the metal part).

As far as gaming, ... Good gaming with you too. Sorry if I was off pace, but daughter was still running around (2yr olds swear they can choose their own bedtime).

Hey guys is there another brand that has anything like the D4 for a similar price/performance?

I can understand what you mean about the soundstage of the K702 vs DT800. Not to say that the DT880 soundstage is small, because it's really not, but the 702 does reach further in all dimensions and seems effortless in doing so. Actually effortless is probably a good way to describe everything it does. Every sound it does sounds effortless.

I guess it's possible that the piercing vocal range when I push the volume is a function of the particular tube I've been using in the EF1. I might play around a little with a few of the other tubes I have and see if it changes this effect.

In terms of the naturalness of the headphones, I have to admit that the K702 lulled me over for a good bit. I listened to it almost exclusively after I got it, continually trying to evaluate it. I began to think that certain passages from some of my test tracks (almost all of which include "real" instruments like the piano, violin, cello, acoustic guitar, etc, etc) sounded more natural. It wasn't until I put the DT880s back on that I realized how much lower end weight truly was missing and how much this impact the natural sound of some of these instruments lower registers. As I mentioned, I think a lot of the range of the piano sounds better on the K702, particularly the higher notes where IMO the difference in naturalness becomes great and the K702 sounds incredibly realistic. But then on some of the lower notes, the edge starts to go to the DT880. For the violin and fiddle, being that it never hits all that low, I do agree the K702 is better with it. For the cello, I think I like the DT880 better since it tends toward the lower spectrum where I think the DT880 shines. And then for instruments like the bass or double bass, the DT880 really pulls away IMO. For acoustic guitar, I don't think either nail it as well as the HD600. I'm not even sure that the HD600 is the most "realistic" in this area, but for sure is the best and sweetest to listen to acoustic guitar on. You literally feel the energy of the acoustic guitar in your body and I find myself wanting to reach into the air to grab the notes. Between the 702 and DT880 though, for acoustic guitar, I would also give the edge to the DT880. I'm not sure either one nails it perfectly, but I feel that the brightness of the K702 takes a little bit away from it and the warmer sound of the DT880 suits the instrument better.

Your assessment of the genres the two headphones are good with is similar for me, but the lack of low end weight in the K702 makes me take pause and not able to blanket statement the genres so easily. For most classical I think the K702 is probably better in general, but I would still grab the DT880 just in hopes that there is some sweet bass or double bass action going on, or maybe some tasty cello. Really that's my thing with the K702. They are so bright and clear and sound great, but the lack of low end weight and impact makes me feel like I need to be changing headphones more frequently, like one song suits them perfectly, then the next song in the same genre I feel is lacking a little something (in the low end). This concern is then confirmed when I switch the DT880s.

I can see your dilemma between the DT880 and K702 though. They sound quite different from each other, but at the same time, they suit similar genres, especially with respect to the D5000 that you also have. For me, if I were to part with one, it would be the 702s because I feel that the DT880s are more well rounded, but I would miss the piercing clarity for really analyzing certain tracks or amplifying the effect of changing tubes or opamps (or cables for that matter). But since I'm making them my gaming headphones, it's a great reason to keep them :) Honestly, I think my ideal headphones would be if the DT880s and the K702s had an even higher fidelity baby. I'm hoping that's what the T1 (or HD800, etc) is.

The SR225 are (were?) next on my list for headphones, or at least equal to the D2000/D5000 to try. After one or both of those, I think it's going to be a sale of all my headphones to buy some T1s or HD800s. Before all of that though, the next big thing on my list is definitely a new source. Then it will be a decision of whether to build a balanced beta22, buy an SR225 and/or D2k/5k, or maybe try an entry to mid level stax setup. After getting the EF1 I've also been looking at the HE-5 a bit too as some orthodynamic phones that supposedly sound great, and not too expensive in comparison to the HD800 they apparently can compete with and even best on some levels. So many options and interests, so little money lol.

That weight, warmth, and fullness that the DT880 lacks is exactly when I'd reach for my D5000 which IMO surpass the DT880 in these areas and also renders vocals in a way that I find more pleasing. They also handle rock/metal much better and are simply more engaging for these genres.

The K702 is a more fatiguing headphone but with that I think they are also a bit more dynamic. They don't seem as even keeled as the DT880's but that also makes them a little more fun to my ears where with the DT880 I kinda get bored with them after an hour or two. YMMV of course, this hobby is all about personal taste and finding that sweet spot but again I can not express how important synergy is. If I have learned anything in this hobby that is it.

That weight, warmth, and fullness that the DT880 lacks is exactly when I'd reach for my D5000 which IMO surpass the DT880 in these areas and also renders vocals in a way that I find more pleasing. They also handle rock/metal much better and are simply more engaging for these genres.

The K702 is a more fatiguing headphone but with that I think they are also a bit more dynamic. They don't seem as even keeled as the DT880's but that also makes them a little more fun to my ears where with the DT880 I kinda get bored with them after an hour or two. YMMV of course, this hobby is all about personal taste and finding that sweet spot but again I can not express how important synergy is. If I have learned anything in this hobby that is it.I haven't heard the D5000 yet, so I'm not sure what differences exactly that would bring, but I definitely wouldn't describe the DT880/600 as lacking weight, warmth, or fullness. It's funny, because those 3 characteristics are among the few that I would say define the DT880 for me: weight/impact, warmth, fullness, and clarity/detail. Now, I do have the 600 ohm version which they say is different enough from the 250 ohm that it's almost like a different headphone, and I think some of the noted differences are in the weight and impact, particularly in the low end. And then I'm listening to it fed into a tube amp, which adds that warm tube sound itself, plus the 600 ohm supposedly synergizes well with tube amps. So I guess it's entirely possible that we are hearing two things that are different enough that we each may feel differently if we heard the other's setup? Or maybe they sound different, but still close enough that I would completely agree if I heard the D5k. Guess I won't know unless I try the D5000 :p

My Sony NC7 just arrived. OMFG, this thing is horrid. Lol. I'll test it out more, but I'm not optimistic, lolz. Good thing it's free.

Wow.. thanks for the advice on my question guys! Lots of great info. Especially from formulanerd. :)

I can understand what you mean about the soundstage of the K702 vs DT800. Not to say that the DT880 soundstage is small, because it's really not, but the 702 does reach further in all dimensions and seems effortless in doing so. Actually effortless is probably a good way to describe everything it does. Every sound it does sounds effortless.

I guess it's possible that the piercing vocal range when I push the volume is a function of the particular tube I've been using in the EF1. I might play around a little with a few of the other tubes I have and see if it changes this effect.

In terms of the naturalness of the headphones, I have to admit that the K702 lulled me over for a good bit. I listened to it almost exclusively after I got it, continually trying to evaluate it. I began to think that certain passages from some of my test tracks (almost all of which include "real" instruments like the piano, violin, cello, acoustic guitar, etc, etc) sounded more natural. It wasn't until I put the DT880s back on that I realized how much lower end weight truly was missing and how much this impact the natural sound of some of these instruments lower registers. As I mentioned, I think a lot of the range of the piano sounds better on the K702, particularly the higher notes where IMO the difference in naturalness becomes great and the K702 sounds incredibly realistic. But then on some of the lower notes, the edge starts to go to the DT880. For the violin and fiddle, being that it never hits all that low, I do agree the K702 is better with it. For the cello, I think I like the DT880 better since it tends toward the lower spectrum where I think the DT880 shines. And then for instruments like the bass or double bass, the DT880 really pulls away IMO. For acoustic guitar, I don't think either nail it as well as the HD600. I'm not even sure that the HD600 is the most "realistic" in this area, but for sure is the best and sweetest to listen to acoustic guitar on. You literally feel the energy of the acoustic guitar in your body and I find myself wanting to reach into the air to grab the notes. Between the 702 and DT880 though, for acoustic guitar, I would also give the edge to the DT880. I'm not sure either one nails it perfectly, but I feel that the brightness of the K702 takes a little bit away from it and the warmer sound of the DT880 suits the instrument better.

Your assessment of the genres the two headphones are good with is similar for me, but the lack of low end weight in the K702 makes me take pause and not able to blanket statement the genres so easily. For most classical I think the K702 is probably better in general, but I would still grab the DT880 just in hopes that there is some sweet bass or double bass action going on, or maybe some tasty cello. Really that's my thing with the K702. They are so bright and clear and sound great, but the lack of low end weight and impact makes me feel like I need to be changing headphones more frequently, like one song suits them perfectly, then the next song in the same genre I feel is lacking a little something (in the low end). This concern is then confirmed when I switch the DT880s.

I can see your dilemma between the DT880 and K702 though. They sound quite different from each other, but at the same time, they suit similar genres, especially with respect to the D5000 that you also have. For me, if I were to part with one, it would be the 702s because I feel that the DT880s are more well rounded, but I would miss the piercing clarity for really analyzing certain tracks or amplifying the effect of changing tubes or opamps (or cables for that matter). But since I'm making them my gaming headphones, it's a great reason to keep them :) Honestly, I think my ideal headphones would be if the DT880s and the K702s had an even higher fidelity baby. I'm hoping that's what the T1 (or HD800, etc) is.

The SR225 are (were?) next on my list for headphones, or at least equal to the D2000/D5000 to try. After one or both of those, I think it's going to be a sale of all my headphones to buy some T1s or HD800s. Before all of that though, the next big thing on my list is definitely a new source. Then it will be a decision of whether to build a balanced beta22, buy an SR225 and/or D2k/5k, or maybe try an entry to mid level stax setup. After getting the EF1 I've also been looking at the HE-5 a bit too as some orthodynamic phones that supposedly sound great, and not too expensive in comparison to the HD800 they apparently can compete with and even best on some levels. So many options and interests, so little money lol.

IMO, the hybrid Dynamic/stat k340 best the 701/2 by a good margin when properly amped.. They are as good as any headphone under 1,000 imo.. They do string instruments very, very, well.. These were made in 78, & almost as hard to drive as the K1000.. Really need a good power amp & speaker wire termination to get the most out of them.. But they still sounded excellent with the HR2, which has gobs of power..

Thx coyote, I'll definitely keep this in mind. It looks like a pretty awesome amp. It's just that now that I know EXACTLY what a DAC is (I didn't have a clue until yesterday, lmao), the D4 sounds like EXACTLY what I need, since it can be both a portable amp, and the replacement for my incredibly crappy headphone out on my netbook. My netbook WOULD be my main music player if the headphone out didn't have so many issues. The D4 would be the all in one item that I'd need for the long run.

No prob :)



As far as gaming, ... Good gaming with you too. Sorry if I was off pace, but daughter was still running around (2yr olds swear they can choose their own bedtime).

LOL, yeah I'm really lucky in that regard. My 2 yr old hasn't started complaining about 7:30 bedtime.... knock on wood.

Also means I have no excuses for my shabby play last night! ;)

I haven't heard the D5000 yet, so I'm not sure what differences exactly that would bring, but I definitely wouldn't describe the DT880/600 as lacking weight, warmth, or fullness. It's funny, because those 3 characteristics are among the few that I would say define the DT880 for me: weight/impact, warmth, fullness, and clarity/detail. Now, I do have the 600 ohm version which they say is different enough from the 250 ohm that it's almost like a different headphone, and I think some of the noted differences are in the weight and impact, particularly in the low end. And then I'm listening to it fed into a tube amp, which adds that warm tube sound itself, plus the 600 ohm supposedly synergizes well with tube amps. So I guess it's entirely possible that we are hearing two things that are different enough that we each may feel differently if we heard the other's setup? Or maybe they sound different, but still close enough that I would completely agree if I heard the D5k. Guess I won't know unless I try the D5000 :p

Oops! Sorry man that should have read "That weight, warmth, and fullness that the K702 lacks" I agree that the DT880 does have weight, warmth and fullness but I feel the D5000 does all that better but falls short on soundstage and instrument separation, which again is when I'd reach for the K702.

Oops! Sorry man that should have read "That weight, warmth, and fullness that the K702 lacks" I agree that the DT880 does have weight, warmth and fullness but I feel the D5000 does all that better but falls short on soundstage and instrument separation, which again is when I'd reach for the K702.

Stop making me want the D5000! I was settled on the D2000, but now 'am rethinking on getting the D5000... but it's almost twice as much. What do you have to drive the D5000? Anything tubed?

I have decided to sell my Beyerdynamic MMX 300 headset, since I've now switched over to a mic-modded AKG K702. The MMX 300 is pretty much the ultimate gaming headset and I have really debated whether or not to let it go. In the end the K702's open design is better for me. (It allows me to hear my kids if they wake up while I'm playing. I know..."why would he want to hear his kids?")

I'm probably not supposed to list things for sale here, but wanted loyal followers of this thread to have dibs. It is in mint condition and I have all the original packaging and accessories it comes with. PM me if you are interested.

The other thing I noticed is that the GT mic swivels a bit too easy in the 3.5mm connector. But that is just the way the connection between the two is, nothing to do with how WTC created the cable.


Here you go Coyote...
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/th_a89a404e.jpg (http://s699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/?action=view&current=a89a404e.jpg)http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/th_181e8d26.jpg (http://s699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/?action=view&current=181e8d26.jpg)http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/th_054e8d8c.jpg (http://s699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/?action=view&current=054e8d8c.jpg)

The "O" ring was sourced from Home Depot for $1.90 or so for a box of 10 (I'm including one in all future cables). The part number is: 96722 by Danco (#5 O-Ring). It doesn't STOP it from spinning, but it definitely makes it more difficult to spin.

Note: It seems to fit perfect, but I haven't actually tested this yet. I will as soon as I build my next cable (hopefully tomorrow to ship by Weekend).

Great idea. I'll be putting one of those on my mic mod as well.
Here you go Coyote...
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/th_a89a404e.jpg (http://s699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/?action=view&current=a89a404e.jpg)http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/th_181e8d26.jpg (http://s699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/?action=view&current=181e8d26.jpg)http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/th_054e8d8c.jpg (http://s699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/?action=view&current=054e8d8c.jpg)

The "O" ring was sourced from Home Depot for $1.90 or so for a box of 10 (I'm including one in all future cables). The part number is: 96722 by Danco (#5 O-Ring)

Stop making me want the D5000! I was settled on the D2000, but now 'am rethinking on getting the D5000... but it's almost twice as much. What do you have to drive the D5000? Anything tubed?

No, in fact I have not liked the synergy they have with the tube amps I have heard them on which includes some nice ones like the Raptor with some pricey tubes. I'm currently using just my P-51 Mustang which has fantastic synergy with the D5000. The other amp that had great synergy with them was the Lisa III and the Pico. I was underwhelmed with the amp section of the DAC1. The HR-2 was a nice combo as well. I've also read good things about their synergy with the X-Can V8P and Graham Slee SRGII. I wouldn't mind checking out either of those or a Burson HA-160.

No, in fact I have not liked the synergy they have with the tube amps I have heard them on which includes some nice ones like the Raptor with some pricey tubes. I'm currently using just my P-51 Mustang which has fantastic synergy with the D5000. The other amp that had great synergy with them was the Lisa III and the Pico. I was underwhelmed with the amp section of the DAC1. The HR-2 was a nice combo as well. I've also read good things about their synergy with the X-Can V8P and Graham Slee SRGII. I wouldn't mind checking out either of those or a Burson HA-160.

Ok, I'll be honest... I wanted a Tube Amp for 2 reasons....
1. They look Cool!
2. PJ has one and likes it...

So, if staying with SS is easier (and cheaper) than going tube... I'll just stay that route.

I have decided to sell my Beyerdynamic MMX 300 headset, since I've now switched over to a mic-modded AKG K702. The MMX 300 is pretty much the ultimate gaming headset and I have really debated whether or not to let it go. In the end the K702's open design is better for me. (It allows me to hear my kids if they wake up while I'm playing. I know..."why would he want to hear his kids?")

I'm probably not supposed to list things for sale here, but wanted loyal followers of this thread to have dibs. It is in mint condition and I have all the original packaging and accessories it comes with. PM me if you are interested.

Damn, I wish you would have done this a week ago. I would have bit.

Got my TB X1 replacement Talk back cable (actually ordered 2)... SO LONG ASTRO CRAP CABLE! Hello TB Cable!
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/X31_41_talkback_cable.jpg

On a side note: Got my AD700s from Coyote today... Nice headphones! Very big! I have a big head I guess, cause they seem to fit ok. I did try them on and played a quick blast of Ozzy. I played the HPX (lower mids and bass stuff were pronounced and kicked the AD700s arse). Everything else, the AD700s kicked the HPXs arse! So... I'll see how gaming goes later tonight. I definitely liked how the instruments sounded on the AD700s... I used to like how the HPXs sounded for music... but now I can see them lacking again (since I got rid of my AKGs).

Can someone recommend a usb/toslink DAC for my denon ah-d5000 & alo amphoria. I have a $600 limit and i dont want to lose the deep bass i have.

Pure tube amps generally look awesome and sound great with the right headphones. A lot of the designs are OTL and better suited for higher impedance headphones. Also, a lot of times they have a warmer sound signature characterized by "liquid" mids, and this signature suits some headphones better than others.

If you still really want some tubeness, you can consider a hybrid which is part tube, part solid state, which generally excel at low impedance headphones like the denons. I actually believe hybrids like the Little Dot I+ hyrbrid and the EF1 are touted as awesome amps for the D2000. Not sure how they do with the D5000 though I would imagine just as well.

Ok, I'll be honest... I wanted a Tube Amp for 2 reasons....
1. They look Cool!
2. PJ has one and likes it...

So, if staying with SS is easier (and cheaper) than going tube... I'll just stay that route.

With the headphones I have owned I have preferred the sound of tubes over SS for the most part but I was always buying different tubes to try and it gets expensive fast. I like the simplicity of SS and for my D5000 I've found that they are less picky with SS than they are with tubes. Like I've said before, so much of this hobby is about synergy and with tube amps that gets harder to pin down. You find recommendations for certain amps but they forget to tell you they've changed out the tubes from the stock ones or something like that.

Wow.. thanks for the advice on my question guys! Lots of great info. Especially from formulanerd. :)
for sure! let us know what you decide.

With the headphones I have owned I have preferred the sound of tubes over SS for the most part but I was always buying different tubes to try and it gets expensive fast. I like the simplicity of SS and for my D5000 I've found that they are less picky with SS than they are with tubes. Like I've said before, so much of this hobby is about synergy and with tube amps that gets harder to pin down. You find recommendations for certain amps but they forget to tell you they've changed out the tubes from the stock ones or something like that.

Ok, I'll save up for a Woo Audio stuff in the future... I think I'm gonna look for a nice SS amp that allows for OpAmp rolling. I want to keep the amp fairly inexpensive. For now though, I'm gonna save up a little to get the D5000 and run that off of the uDac. Then, I'll get an amp to finish it up. In a few years, I'll probably go through the process again for a more dedicated listening station (with a nice comfy lounge chair and the like).

Im anxious to hear what WTC thinks of the AD700s for gaming.

Im having second thoughts getting rid of the M50s. I know I have the DT880s and the DT770s are on their way, but I'll miss the versatility of the M50s. I could just throw them in my bag, and use them anywhere without a problem. The DT880s are open, and the DT770s are too hungry for everyday stuff. :(

Im anxious to hear what WTC thinks of the AD700s for gaming.

Im having second thoughts getting rid of the M50s. I know I have the DT880s and the DT770s are on their way, but I'll miss the versatility of the M50s. I could just throw them in my bag, and use them anywhere without a problem. The DT880s are open, and the DT770s are too hungry for everyday stuff. :(

Jump on tonight for some FFA! I LOVE FFA! :D:D:D:D

Stupid phone wont let me edit my post.

To add, I probably should just wait for the iBasso D4 to be in stock again and be able to use any of my headphones anywhere... there really isnt a need to have the M50s if I already have two headphones that can outperform them.

Still, I think I would've been happy with just the M50s for everything, even gaming. They're great for pretty much everything, IMHO.

Update on the Sony NC7.

With mixamp: The very worst headphone I have ever tested when it comes to soundstage. Don't ever try gaming with these.

SQ overall was decent. If I press the cups to my ears, they have a pretty great sound. Leave the cups alone and you'll miss half the detail. I'm not kidding. There was so much detail lost in the songs I am used to testing out with all headphones.

It doesnt help that you NEED a battery to get them to sound halfway decent. With NC off, they sound like dollar store headphones. They are that bad.

Comfort is okay for an on ear design. I greatly prefer the Sony XB300s comfort. The NC7s slide like crazy, and dont stay in place.

No thanks. Getting rid of these ASAP. I can just give them to someone as they were free. Dont think anyone would ever buy these if they heard them.

I should be on after 9 PST tonight with a couple other friends if anyone wants to get some MW2 in.

Bah, in the end, Im keeping the M50s. I cant give them up. They're too good. I guess I'll be a 4 headphone guy. XD

SQ overall was decent. If I press the cups to my ears, they have a pretty great sound. Leave the cups alone and you'll miss half the detail. I'm not kidding. There was so much detail lost in the songs I am used to testing out with all headphones.

You need the Shin CZ Mod then!
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/Shinz-Mod.jpghttp://www.kk.org/streetuse/handsfree.jpg

Holy crap! Those ARE the NC7s! HAHAHAHA. It's totally true! That funny looking mod would actually make the NC7s sound good!

You just made my day. XD

I just realized you shop'd those in. No thanks to my crappy phone. I thought it was a real image. Lol. It still made my day. :D

I just realized you shop'd those in. No thanks to my crappy phone. I thought it was a real image. Lol. It still made my day. :D

Yea, I did... for you tho.

I wish I still had MW2. I was 90% free for all myself. I was usually first or second place. Would've liked to go against you. My DT880 would give me an unfair advantage. :p

I'm totally hoping my DT770s are loud enough with just the Mixamp, because I really don't wanna buy anything else for at least another month. XD

With the headphones I have owned I have preferred the sound of tubes over SS for the most part but I was always buying different tubes to try and it gets expensive fast. I like the simplicity of SS and for my D5000 I've found that they are less picky with SS than they are with tubes. Like I've said before, so much of this hobby is about synergy and with tube amps that gets harder to pin down. You find recommendations for certain amps but they forget to tell you they've changed out the tubes from the stock ones or something like that.But what about rolling opamps ;) Unless you're talking a discrete design.

Rolling tubes is fun but yeah, can get expensive. The best most popular tubes can get pretty darn pricey, more than the amp they are going in, in some cases! And if you need two, a matched pair, or even 4, a matched quad, it's even worse!

The hybrids get the best of both worlds (or is it the worst? lol)... rolling both tubes and opamps. I've got a few tubes for the EF1 and I'm gonna order the topkit for it soon to roll a few different opamps as well :)

I wish I still had MW2. I was 90% free for all myself. I was usually first or second place. Would've liked to go against you. My DT880 would give me an unfair advantage. :p

I'm totally hoping my DT770s are loud enough with just the Mixamp, because I really don't wanna buy anything else for at least another month. XD

Well, played some with the AD700s. Sound stage may be a little larger than on the HPX... but not a lot. I like the bass extension and mid/lower mid definition better on the HPXs though. I also think, that my HPXs are a little more comfortable. If I had to choose 1 right now, it would be the HPX. I'm gonna still play more with the AD700s so that I can get a better feel for them. I can't really say I like one over the other, because I haven't give the AD700s a fair shake yet.

I don't blame you. I mean, I think the sound from the AD700s are nearly perfect for gaming, but after hearing how good games sound with my DT880s, I can't possibly go back to headphones that lack bass impact even at the cost of a little soundstage depth. Hell, I would be fine with Steelseries Siberia that I got for my girl, had I not already tried on so many good headphones. I think if I had bought the HPX long ago, we wouldn't be having this convo.

I don't see any reason for ME to own the HPX now, but I sure as hell am still curious about them. Ship them to me, and I'll ship them back after a few days. ;) But really though, the next time a close friend wants to jump into gaming with headphones, Im gonna really try to pressure them towards the HPX for my own devilish desire to test them out. o_o

No, in fact I have not liked the synergy they have with the tube amps I have heard them on which includes some nice ones like the Raptor with some pricey tubes. I'm currently using just my P-51 Mustang which has fantastic synergy with the D5000. The other amp that had great synergy with them was the Lisa III and the Pico. I was underwhelmed with the amp section of the DAC1. The HR-2 was a nice combo as well. I've also read good things about their synergy with the X-Can V8P and Graham Slee SRGII. I wouldn't mind checking out either of those or a Burson HA-160.
Don't leave out the GP V5.. They control the bass like no amp I ever heard or owned before..

Ok, I'll save up for a Woo Audio stuff in the future... I think I'm gonna look for a nice SS amp that allows for OpAmp rolling. I want to keep the amp fairly inexpensive. For now though, I'm gonna save up a little to get the D5000 and run that off of the uDac. Then, I'll get an amp to finish it up. In a few years, I'll probably go through the process again for a more dedicated listening station (with a nice comfy lounge chair and the like).
The GD fun comes to mind.. A used Compass.. Or Fire audio 'cute' amp..

I might just get the D7000..For 600, I would recommend them. They are the most TH like experience with the deepest bass for a headphone that I know of. One octave lower then others Headroom has tested.. They are colored & fun.. As much as I love my DT48.. I have 9 models.. They lack the TH experience.. & would like something totally different..

I don't blame you. I mean, I think the sound from the AD700s are nearly perfect for gaming, but after hearing how good games sound with my DT880s, I can't possibly go back to headphones that lack bass impact even at the cost of a little soundstage depth. Hell, I would be fine with Steelseries Siberia that I got for my girl, had I not already tried on so many good headphones. I think if I had bought the HPX long ago, we wouldn't be having this convo.

I don't see any reason for ME to own the HPX now, but I sure as hell am still curious about them. Ship them to me, and I'll ship them back after a few days. ;) But really though, the next time a close friend wants to jump into gaming with headphones, Im gonna really try to pressure them towards the HPX for my own devilish desire to test them out. o_o

Haha... yea, no need for HPX for you. Though, I'm very happy that I chose these as my gaming headset... and plan to keep these around for a long time (until they break that is, then who knows)...

I should consider returning all my headphones and just getting the D7000. They're easy to drive, bass heavy, and 'fun'.

My girl would kill me. :D

I should consider returning all my headphones and just getting the D7000. They're easy to drive, bass heavy, and 'fun'.

My girl would kill me. :Dhttp://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/em82-1.gif

Got my 702 modded cable from WTC yesterday. Well, actually it came Monday but I didn't realize it. The package sat on my front porch in the rain all night. :( Thankfully, WTC packaged it in a ziplock!

The cable seems great so far, I had no problems with it and it looks really nice. The only minor comment I have after using it is that it is a bit stiff at the headset connector end of it, such that when you sit down the cable is kind of pushing into my upper chest instead of laying down on my chest. Slight though. Just kinda lets you know it's there every once in a while when you move around. But I thought I'd get it out there in case it is an improvement WTC can make on future cables.

The other thing I noticed is that the GT mic swivels a bit too easy in the 3.5mm connector. But that is just the way the connection between the two is, nothing to do with how WTC created the cable.

Good playin' MW2 with you last night WTC, and thanks for putting this together for me!

My Logo was the best part on the cable.... right? :D

Well, played some with the AD700s. Sound stage may be a little larger than on the HPX... but not a lot. I like the bass extension and mid/lower mid definition better on the HPXs though. I also think, that my HPXs are a little more comfortable. If I had to choose 1 right now, it would be the HPX. I'm gonna still play more with the AD700s so that I can get a better feel for them. I can't really say I like one over the other, because I haven't give the AD700s a fair shake yet.

You'd better like the HPX better since YOU convinced me to get them! :p:D

I don't blame you. I mean, I think the sound from the AD700s are nearly perfect for gaming, but after hearing how good games sound with my DT880s, I can't possibly go back to headphones that lack bass impact even at the cost of a little soundstage depth. Hell, I would be fine with Steelseries Siberia that I got for my girl, had I not already tried on so many good headphones. I think if I had bought the HPX long ago, we wouldn't be having this convo.

I don't see any reason for ME to own the HPX now, but I sure as hell am still curious about them. Ship them to me, and I'll ship them back after a few days. ;) But really though, the next time a close friend wants to jump into gaming with headphones, Im gonna really try to pressure them towards the HPX for my own devilish desire to test them out. o_o

Yeah, right. You've only said "This is the last headphone I'll ever need!" like 20 times! I don't think I trust you anymore. :D

You'd better like the HPX better since YOU convinced me to get them! :p:D

Played all night with the AD700s... guess what? Still like the HPX better. I'm happy with my HPX decision. How do you like yours? Though, I will say, that if you have either... it's not worth moving to the other one... as it's pretty much a lateral move.

Played all night with the AD700s... guess what? Still like the HPX better. I'm happy with my HPX decision. How do you like yours? Though, I will say, that if you have either... it's not worth moving to the other one... as it's pretty much a lateral move.

So do you think the HUGE soundstage of the AD700 is a bit overblown or is the HPX that much underrated?

As for me, I like the HPX. I think it's growing on me. I don't know if it's burning in or I'm just getting used to it but I think it's getting better.

But what about rolling opamps ;) Unless you're talking a discrete design.

Rolling tubes is fun but yeah, can get expensive. The best most popular tubes can get pretty darn pricey, more than the amp they are going in, in some cases! And if you need two, a matched pair, or even 4, a matched quad, it's even worse!

The hybrids get the best of both worlds (or is it the worst? lol)... rolling both tubes and opamps. I've got a few tubes for the EF1 and I'm gonna order the topkit for it soon to roll a few different opamps as well :)

You know, most of the SS amps I've owned have had a good sound and I did not roll opamps. I did a lot when I had my Xin amps but to be honest I found that I spent more time screwing around with opamps and looking for different ones to try than just enjoying what already sounded good and listening to music. I'm such a gear hound that the curiosity just kills me so I've tried to make decisions that involve more of a plug in and enjoy result vs. order this PSU, these opamps, these tubes, to pair with [insert headphones here] but order blah blah blah blah for these headphoens.. .wears me out thinking about it:p

So do you think the HUGE soundstage of the AD700 is a bit overblown or is the HPX that much underrated?

As for me, I like the HPX. I think it's growing on me. I don't know if it's burning in or I'm just getting used to it but I think it's getting better.

I was looking for this 'huge' sound stage too.... but guess what, it's a little larger than the HPXs, and directional cues are pretty much the same. So, in the end.... basically, the AD700s are nice, the HPXs are nice... the AD700s have it for upper end, the HPXs for lower end... they kinda mingle in the middle... It depends on what you like. I don't like the AD700s much for music, nor do I like the HPXs for that matter. I guess, if given a choice... I'd take the HPX for the lower end (more fun to me) and built in Mic. So yes, I'm done looking for gaming headphones. ...but, I will Mod these AD700s and see if I can beef up the lower end a bit (which don't lack as much as people say they do). The low end is definitely light, and lighter than the AKG K240s... but you can still hear it (not feel it though).

I felt the same way about the burning in of the HPX, but the more I used it... the more I liked it. Most likely it's a little of both (burning in and just getting used to the sound).

Yeah, right. You've only said "This is the last headphone I'll ever need!" like 20 times! I don't think I trust you anymore. :D

Here's the god honest truth: I don't even trust myself! :(

But in all seriousness, I would have never bought another headphone for gaming if the AD700s had the fit and adjustable band like typical headphones.

Though what made me want bass impact was when I got the XB700s for late night gaming. They ended up sucking for gaming, but the bass impact was so delicious, it made me want more out of my headphones. DAMN upgraditis!

But I'm more than one million percent happy with the DT880s. There is absolutely nothing missing from them, so I see no need to ever upgrade it. I will never EVER buy another open back headphone, until these die on me.

The M50s are also perfect for me as a late night and work horse solution.

If there is a guilty purchase, its the DT770. I bought it just because of how bassy they are. I had so much fun with the XB700s, and had they not hurt my ears, I would have never bought the M50s and DT770s.

You know, most of the SS amps I've owned have had a good sound and I did not roll opamps. I did a lot when I had my Xin amps but to be honest I found that I spent more time screwing around with opamps and looking for different ones to try than just enjoying what already sounded good and listening to music. I'm such a gear hound that the curiosity just kills me so I've tried to make decisions that involve more of a plug in and enjoy result vs. order this PSU, these opamps, these tubes, to pair with [insert headphones here] but order blah blah blah blah for these headphoens.. .wears me out thinking about it:pI know what you mean. Every listening session winds up being a test session also, determine how XXX has done XXX to XXX. I kind of like that though, for now :p

I like listening, enjoying, and then thinking, wait, this can get even better?! Then my wallet's heart sinks.

My Logo was the best part on the cable.... right? :D

LOL, yeah I forgot to comment on the sweet branding! :D

LOL, yeah I forgot to comment on the sweet branding! :D

Hehe... well, thanks to your suggestion, Cable v2.0 is now complete...
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/PJ_Cable.jpg

Hell now I just want the k702s to support WTC's effort. Good looking you are doing there in the name of HiFi surround headset gaming.

Hell now I just want the k702s to support WTC's effort. Good looking you are doing there in the name of HiFi surround headset gaming.

:D:D:D:D, Sweet!

I searched a bunch of pages back, but what was used to remove the paint from the AD700 grills? Was it Oven Cleaner? I'm gonna play tonight with the new cable, and the AD700s... then order my 4 pole parts to give them a removable cable and a few other mods.

Hell now I just want the k702s to support WTC's effort. Good looking you are doing there in the name of HiFi surround headset gaming.The K702s sound great overall and that cable looks awesome and will be perfect for gaming (the one in that pic is mine :D), but I feel compelled to reiterate one important thing about the 702s before you click the button...

If you currently find yourself with your mixamp voice/game dial past 2 o'clock on a regular basis, I think you'd be disappointed with the total volume level you can get out of them with just the mixamp. At least I was. I generally play with it a *little* loud so as to not miss any details, and I couldn't achieve my normal gaming volumes with the game/voice knob past 1 to 1:30. At 12 o'clock and less (heading into the "game" side), it's more than loud enough. Between 12 and 2 is probably personal preference for "it gets loud enough". Past 2, I would be surprised if most people find that to be definitely loud enough and never want more. Just my opinion, YMMV, but consider yourself warned :p

:D:D:D:D, Sweet!

I searched a bunch of pages back, but what was used to remove the paint from the AD700 grills? Was it Oven Cleaner? I'm gonna play tonight with the new cable, and the AD700s... then order my 4 pole parts to give them a removable cable and a few other mods.

yea, i used oven cleaner to get them silver... you can put it in a plastic bowl out in the garage, or even in your oven if you need to (heat off obviously), just be careful, very caustic fumes.

The K702s sound great overall and that cable looks awesome and will be perfect for gaming (the one in that pic is mine :D), but I feel compelled to reiterate one important thing about the 702s before you click the button...

If you currently find yourself with your mixamp voice/game dial past 2 o'clock on a regular basis, I think you'd be disappointed with the total volume level you can get out of them with just the mixamp. At least I was. I generally play with it a *little* loud so as to not miss any details, and I couldn't achieve my normal gaming volumes with the game/voice knob past 1 to 1:30. At 12 o'clock and less (heading into the "game" side), it's more than loud enough. Between 12 and 2 is probably personal preference for "it gets loud enough". Past 2, I would be surprised if most people find that to be definitely loud enough and never want more. Just my opinion, YMMV, but consider yourself warned :p


what is your master volume at? my master is at about 2:00, and my voice is closer to 3:00, everything sounds fine to me, i can go louder but have no wish to do so.... how are you powering your mixamp? i'm running mine off of a 700ma wall wart, i wonder if that makes a difference? what is usb out of the xbox supposed to be at? something like 320ma?

The K702s sound great overall and that cable looks awesome and will be perfect for gaming (the one in that pic is mine :D), but I feel compelled to reiterate one important thing about the 702s before you click the button...

If you currently find yourself with your mixamp voice/game dial past 2 o'clock on a regular basis, I think you'd be disappointed with the total volume level you can get out of them with just the mixamp. At least I was. I generally play with it a *little* loud so as to not miss any details, and I couldn't achieve my normal gaming volumes with the game/voice knob past 1 to 1:30. At 12 o'clock and less (heading into the "game" side), it's more than loud enough. Between 12 and 2 is probably personal preference for "it gets loud enough". Past 2, I would be surprised if most people find that to be definitely loud enough and never want more. Just my opinion, YMMV, but consider yourself warned :p
My K702s are plenty loud on my setup, and the mixamp has enough to drive them even with the game/voice mix turned to 3:00. Voices on chat get pretty loud if I turn the mix knob that far.

I wonder if our mixamps have differences in the amp section? My mixamp is a first generation model and I run it on USB power. Let me know if you want to run a test of some sort since we have the same setup otherwise.

My K702s are plenty loud on my setup, and the mixamp has enough to drive them even with the game/voice mix turned to 3:00. Voices on chat get pretty loud if I turn the mix knob that far.

I wonder if our mixamps have differences in the amp section? My mixamp is a first generation model and I run it on USB power. Let me know if you want to run a test of some sort since we have the same setup otherwise.

i have a first gen as well, and agree with you on the points you make.

I agree, that I'm usually confused. :rolleyes:

what is your master volume at? my master is at about 2:00, and my voice is closer to 3:00, everything sounds fine to me, i can go louder but have no wish to do so.... how are you powering your mixamp? i'm running mine off of a 700ma wall wart, i wonder if that makes a difference? what is usb out of the xbox supposed to be at? something like 320ma?
USB spec is a max of 5V and 500ma. Is your wall wart powering a USB hub? Does your mixamp put out same volume when you power it using USB from the 360?

Shin - following your headphone journey has been a wild ride. I couldn't resist posting this chart comparing the frequency response of a couple of the headphones you've had as it's been the whole gamut with you. Those Sony XB700s have a ridiculous amount of bass (+15db!), and the AD700s are tin cans in comparison. The DT880s are very flat relative to what you've tried before.
I included the K702 plot for Daekwan's benefit.
http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=73&graphID[]=143&graphID[]=723&graphID[]=1193

That's just crazy!
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/headphonegraph.png

I wonder where my re-cabled HD428s sit, doubt anywhere near the XB700... and they have too much bass for me.... sheesh! Looks like I made a mistake by dumping my K240s... DOH!

Wow, thanks for the chart ATB! Looks like the DT880 and K702s are like rivals in the same things, lol.

Yeah, the XB700s have thunderous bass. Its only use really is for music if you want to get lost in a sea of monstrous bass. I sure did, and loved it. The XB700s are the funnest headphones I have owned. Not necessarily an audiophile headphone, but totally worth the 80 bucks I spent if the pads didnt have that defect that only I seem to have issues with.

Seriously though, the XB700s stayed away from getting muddy in the treble department, but the bass was so powerful that it's hard to focus on anything else. Still, VERY enjoyable.

I wonder how the M50s fare, as well as the DT770 pro 80 against the XB700s in bass.

According to this Graph, I feel better about my next purchase (Denon D5000).
http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/headphone650vs5000.png

Don't leave out the GP V5.. They control the bass like no amp I ever heard or owned before..


The GD fun comes to mind.. A used Compass.. Or Fire audio 'cute' amp..

I might just get the D7000..For 600, I would recommend them. They are the most TH like experience with the deepest bass for a headphone that I know of. One octave lower then others Headroom has tested.. They are colored & fun.. As much as I love my DT48.. I have 9 models.. They lack the TH experience.. & would like something totally different..

Have your heard the Burson HA-160? I think I am leaning in that direction or the Graham Slee for my desktop rig.

Shin - following your headphone journey has been a wild ride. I couldn't resist posting this chart comparing the frequency response of a couple of the headphones you've had as it's been the whole gamut with you. Those Sony XB700s have a ridiculous amount of bass (+15db!), and the AD700s are tin cans in comparison. The DT880s are very flat relative to what you've tried before.
I included the K702 plot for Daekwan's benefit.
http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=73&graphID[]=143&graphID[]=723&graphID[]=1193

Oh nice! Something I can wrap my mind around.....plots! Where did you get these? From your own measurements or on head-fi maybe?

graphic says "headroom" in big letters :D

USB spec is a max of 5V and 500ma. Is your wall wart powering a USB hub? Does your mixamp put out same volume when you power it using USB from the 360?

no, originally i had issues with the mixamp buzzing (pc usb) so rather than try the xbox usb, i just grabbed an extra usb wallwart from my cell phone (my dock came with an extra) and since my phone is power hungry, it has a 700ma output.... i've read about people powering headphone amps with higher output wall warts, so i figured it wouldnt hurt.

i could test the xbox, but wall-wart vs pc usb is no comparison, but its probably something wrong with the front jacks on my pc.

Just started watching Tenacious D... yea, I know... it's old and I'm slow... but I kinda like them... Funny, NEVER been a Jack Black fan.

thats funny, a friend of mine hates jack black, and he's(jack black) in a track on the incredibad cd(andy samberg from snl), so i told my buddy to just give tenacious d a chance.... he loves it.

thats funny, a friend of mine hates jack black, and he's(jack black) in a track on the incredibad cd(andy samberg from snl), so i told my buddy to just give tenacious d a chance.... he loves it.

Too funny! That's how it happened for me... I liked that song too (Sax Man)... good stuff! I also like Natalie Portman's rap... it's kinda funny.

Have your heard the Burson HA-160? I think I am leaning in that direction or the Graham Slee for my desktop rig.
No.. But one owner who has the Graham slee with the PS favors the GP V5.. No comparison with the Burson 160.. I'm sure it will be just as good if not better.. The GP excels in the 'focus' of the music, (strange term) detail/resolve is beyond it's price point. (550) Neutrality, transparency, & amazing bass control.. I would team it up with a non bright source though.. As the GP leans towards the bright side.. Has stepped att as well.. My next amp will be the auditor, but still need to get the NUforce mods, HD800 or D7000.

Hmmmm, AKG 702s...

"Final comments & suggestions (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/akg2/702.html): Demands top quality amplification with drive and painfully long break-in. Essentially a studio monitor spoon-fed on neutrality and resolution, not an editorializing home hifi design. Properly driven, it is not however a flat, dull, uninvolving sound at all. It simply needs muscular amplification of high caliber. The €499 Burson Audio HA-160 is just perfect." per Srajan Ebaen of 6 Moons Audio. Interesting!

With the 702s and mixamp, with the master volume at 2 o'clock, and the voice/game knob at 3 o'clock, the volume is lower than I like, but usable. With the master volume at full (3 o'clock) and the voice/game still at 3 o'clock, it's acceptable to me. I still would prefer it a smidgen louder, but I could get by.

The bottom line for me is that it's just just barely enough. If you want to dial heavily into voice, if you like it loud, or if you just want to play loud one day, you might find it lacking. If you don't really ever find yourself dialing over to 3 o'clock on the voice/game knob currently with whatever you're using, you'd probably be fine with the 702 volume.

Maybe I like it louder than others, or maybe I dial too heavily into voice, or maybe the old mixamp does have more power. I am using usb power from the xbox, but I would think this would produce distortion rather than less volume (vs wallwart usb), if anything, which I have noticed on loud passages, like airstrikes, if the master volume is maxed on the mixamp, I get clipping in the form of crackling. Not just with the K702s/etc but even if feeding another amp and you max the master volume.

At any rate, due to this volume issue, whatever the root cause, I hesitate to offer the K702 as a no-hassle solution without fully disclosing what I believe to be a potential problem. I guess some people find it to be fine and others not so much. Kind of like the DT880/250 -- some people say it's perfectly fine for gaming straight out of the mixamp, and some people say they don't have enough volume. I really think it's a matter of where they keep the voice/game knob most of the time, and just how loud they like to play.

Hmmmm, AKG 702s...

"Final comments & suggestions (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/akg2/702.html): Demands top quality amplification with drive and painfully long break-in. Essentially a studio monitor spoon-fed on neutrality and resolution, not an editorializing home hifi design. Properly driven, it is not however a flat, dull, uninvolving sound at all. It simply needs muscular amplification of high caliber. The €499 Burson Audio HA-160 is just perfect." per Srajan Ebaen of 6 Moons Audio. Interesting!
The 701/2 are more geared towards mixing applications.. Monitor headphones for the most part are closed.. They are neutral, but not to the extreme as the DT48/240DF/CD900ST/DT100/4070/HP1/2/HD800/K1000.. Their neutrality prowess is usually based on listeners not familiar with reference grade studio monitors. I would include this reviewer, since they review audiophile type headphones, instead of reference grade studio headphones. They have reviewed the HD800 & K1000.. But 6 moons has a lot of reviewers..

Hmmmm, AKG 702s...

"Final comments & suggestions (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/akg2/702.html): Demands top quality amplification with drive and painfully long break-in. Essentially a studio monitor spoon-fed on neutrality and resolution, not an editorializing home hifi design. Properly driven, it is not however a flat, dull, uninvolving sound at all. It simply needs muscular amplification of high caliber. The €499 Burson Audio HA-160 is just perfect." per Srajan Ebaen of 6 Moons Audio. Interesting!
I think many here would be surprised how well the 701/2 re capable of sounding.. The HEED Canamp has good synergy with the 701/2.. 400 or less.. The amp is really known for it's drive & prominent bass. & must be doing somthing right.. There is HUGE thread dedicated to this amp on headfi.. The MF Can8 is also a great option in the 600 range.. I know 600 is like 6,000 to a lot of people looking for gaming headphones & a cheap but good amp.. Just throwing things out there.. The more jaws that hit the floor the better.. These amps are also great for BR/DVD/music. The oppos down mixes 5.1 HD codecs very well.. I also seen some BR disc with 2.0 uncompressed audio.. I'm listening to kick boxer now, & the sound is incredible compared to the lossy version..

No.. But one owner who has the Graham slee with the PS favors the GP V5.. No comparison with the Burson 160.. I'm sure it will be just as good if not better.. The GP excels in the 'focus' of the music, (strange term) detail/resolve is beyond it's price point. (550) Neutrality, transparency, & amazing bass control.. I would team it up with a non bright source though.. As the GP leans towards the bright side.. Has stepped att as well.. My next amp will be the auditor, but still need to get the NUforce mods, HD800 or D7000.

Is that the Goldpoint pro amp that comes in a flat or upright version? I tend to shy away from the bright, analytical amps. I like the RSA house sound and I was a big fan of the Lisa when I owned it. Headrooms amps have for the most part sounded somewhat uninvolving to me. Times like this I really wish I'd have gone to a meet recently. I'd love to put the T1 or HD800 in my crosshairs but it would be a waste with nothing more than my Mustang right now.

This is precisely why I won't dabble into high grade headphones. I'm a pretty simplistic guy, usually happy and finding good performance from not so high end equipment. This is why I have been more than happy at sticking at low impedance, easy to drive headphones that don't necessarily NEED an amp to sound great. The Mixamp and Fiio E5 have served me well with pretty much all the headphones I have bought and/or tested, and I would very much like to keep it this way. I'm quite scared that the DT770s 80ohm won't sound great with the Fiio and Mixamp? I really dont wanna end up getting an amp/dac just to make them sound good, so I might end up returning them and leaving all my headphone purchases strictly to just low impedance, easy to drive headphones.

Contrary to what people may think as to how I have been splurging quite a bit lately, I don't have money to spend, and yet I'm spending it. It has come to the point where I have to force myself to stop after my DT770s arrive. If I find them good enough for the mixamp, but not for the Fiio, I'll keep them for late night gaming, and get an amp/dac for music much further down the line when I have some actual cash to spend. :(

This is precisely why I won't dabble into high grade headphones. I'm a pretty simplistic guy, usually happy and finding good performance from not so high end equipment. This is why I have been more than happy at sticking at low impedance, easy to drive headphones that don't necessarily NEED an amp to sound great. The Mixamp and Fiio E5 have served me well with pretty much all the headphones I have bought and/or tested, and I would very much like to keep it this way. I'm quite scared that the DT770s 80ohm won't sound great with the Fiio and Mixamp? I really dont wanna end up getting an amp/dac just to make them sound good, so I might end up returning them and leaving all my headphone purchases strictly to just low impedance, easy to drive headphones.

Contrary to what people may think as to how I have been splurging quite a bit lately, I don't have money to spend, and yet I'm spending it. It has come to the point where I have to force myself to stop after my DT770s arrive. If I find them good enough for the mixamp, but not for the Fiio, I'll keep them for late night gaming, and get an amp/dac for music much further down the line when I have some actual cash to spend. :(

AD700 - $85
DT880 - $260
XB700 - $80
M50 - $100
DT770 - $200

Total - $725 = D7000 game over;)

Hahaha, yeah. But I did came onto this obsession looking a great gaming headphone.

It started with the A40s. Then they died.

Then:

-AD700
RE0
-Senn HD201
-AX Pros
-XB700
M50s
DT880
DT770

I could've easily bought the HPX for gaming and D7000 for everything else with all this, lol. This addiction has been a wild ride, but I'm pretty happy with what I currently have. I have one for all situations, and then the DT770s. :D

Should've told me the D7000s were low impedance. I would have went with those earlier. :p

Based on the graphs of the D2000, D5000, and D7000... They're fairly similar... but the D5000 looked to have Bass in between the D2k and D7k... but also had a more flat response and didn't trail off in the highs as much as the other 2. It seems to me to be the better of the three (again, according to the graph.... unless I read it wrong). I also looked at the Ultrasone HFI-780 and when it got close to the 10k mark... it fell on it's face, so... no HFI-780 for me!

...if anything, which I have noticed on loud passages, like airstrikes, if the master volume is maxed on the mixamp, I get clipping in the form of crackling. Not just with the K702s/etc but even if feeding another amp and you max the master volume.


So is the answer when using another amp inline to not crank the mixamp master volume to max and adjust volume using the other amp? Does that eliminate the crackling?

Uh Oh, joined the Denon D2k,D5k,D7k appreciation thread over on Head-Fi... they have much love for them, and all I can think about is how much my wallet is going to hurt. General Kenobi, I was on Lawton's Audio page, and to get some D2k Lites are about $769. I was thinking of going with the D2k again (as a base), and then eventually upgrading to D5k or D7k cable with stock D5k cups (with MarkL Mods done to them). It seems like it would be a nice upgrade, and it's something that I can upgrade over time. The D2k seems to mesh pretty good with my uDac as well. I think this might be my way to go (headphones first, and then upgrade to a decent amp.... or Dac & Amp), then go for either upgrading the headphones or a different style of headphone to complement my other musical tastes. I do like the upgradability of these headphones though.

Based on the graphs of the D2000, D5000, and D7000... They're fairly similar... but the D5000 looked to have Bass in between the D2k and D7k... but also had a more flat response and didn't trail off in the highs as much as the other 2. It seems to me to be the better of the three (again, according to the graph.... unless I read it wrong). I also looked at the Ultrasone HFI-780 and when it got close to the 10k mark... it fell on it's face, so... no HFI-780 for me!Just as a note... those graphs aren't the bible in terms of how headphones sound. They graphs don't cover show clarity and resolution for one thing. But for another, even with the frequency response, it does tell you something generally speaking, but each person will still hear the headphones a little differently, and the exact design of the headphone can make actually listening to them have a slightly different result than the test setup did when it captured the frequency sweep. In other words, use the graphs as a tool to get the basic idea of how flat (or not) a headphone is, but realize that even if two headphones look exactly the same on the graph, it's possible that they sound quite different. And vice versa, they might have different graphs but sound quite similar.

So is the answer when using another amp inline to not crank the mixamp master volume to max and adjust volume using the other amp? Does that eliminate the crackling?Yeah, if I keep the volume between 1 and 2 it seems to eliminate the crackling. And yeah, I then just use the external amp volume as the master volume. Works great this way.. not as good as a line out, but good enough.

Just as a note... those graphs aren't the bible in terms of how headphones sound. They graphs don't cover show clarity and resolution for one thing. But for another, even with the frequency response, it does tell you something generally speaking, but each person will still hear the headphones a little differently, and the exact design of the headphone can make actually listening to them have a slightly different result than the test setup did when it captured the frequency sweep. In other words, use the graphs as a tool to get the basic idea of how flat (or not) a headphone is, but realize that even if two headphones look exactly the same on the graph, it's possible that they sound quite different. And vice versa, they might have different graphs but sound quite similar.

That's true (and understandable), it's just a reference type of thing. I'm actually surprised how the Sennheiser HD428 shows to have very little bass, but to my ears... they are almost on par (and beat in stereo mode) the HPXs... which are no slouch for bass. The HD428 are a little sloppier, but after the re-cable, they improved. I would like to see where they fall on the graph at this point.

I'd like to see a graph where the Y axis is Shin's love for the headphone and the X axis would be time owned. All of them would start really high and then drop off as time went by. :D

Sorry Shin, I just couldn't resist picking on you a little...

I was curious about the D7000 for a while, wondering if I should upgrade my D5000 but most of what I read did not make me think the $$ would be worth it. One post I read on headfi seemed to mirror the things I like about the D5000 and grounded me in my decision to keep my D5000 and look at other cans for my upgradidus, here's the post:

I've been burning my D7000s in for several days now...probably on 60 hrs total...and since I replaced a set of D5000s with these, maybe I can comment with some authority.

The D5000 has, to my ears, a hump in the upper bass that makes a lot of my rock and funk sound *really* good. It also had a slight rolloff in the highs that I personally like. I am not big on "ear bleeder" headphones with ultimate extension up there, so consider that bias on my part. The downside of that bass hump is that, sometimes, I had that repeatedly-punched-in-the-ears feeling after taking off my cans. It was too much of a good thing on some music (even rock and funk), and got more noticeable as time went on. In addition to that, the low end extension is very muddy. Some people say "slightly"; I say "very". You only really noticed on music with a lot of complex bass, but I noticed and it is my major problem with this headphone. Mids were fantastic...bar none, great mids.

Okay, now to the D7000. Upper bass hump is GONE...yet I kinda miss it. . I wish a slight, slight emphasis there remained, but I can't detect that at all. Highs are definitely not rolled off. Not harsh like the K701 or a Grado set, but right on the edge of too much. I am normally pretty skeptical of burn-in radically changing a headphone, but in this case I think time will smooth out the highs to where I appreciate the extra extension. But, at this point, I prefer the D5000 highs. Low end mud is history. I'm not sure if it goes any lower than the D5000, but it doesn't "woooom" down there like the D5000 did at times. (that's a technical term, heh) Mids are similiarly sweet like the D5000, but I think I like the D5000 mids a little more. (might be due to the extra upper bass thickness)

And Denon...can you PLEASE shorten the fricking cable? I can booby-trap the opening to my office with it and still have plenty of length between my head and my amp left over. Sheesh.

Bottom line...the D7000 isn't worth anywhere near twice the price of the D5000. It's probably the more accurate headphone, but the D5000 is just fun. Even if it did sound like an '80s boombox at times. Pay yer $450 and be done with it, I say. Very nice.

Why the disparity in pricing?
http://www.buy.com/retail/usersearchresults.asp?querytype=home&qu=denon+ah-d2000&qxt=home&display=col

Nice review by the way. Do you think you might do a MarkL mod to your phones? I'm thinking of doing a stepped process...

1. Stock D2000
2. Wood Cups with MarkL Mod
3. Full Recable (but with either the D5000-D7000 Cable, or something else).

- I want to wait on the re-cable, because I want to 'learn' the sound of the stock headphones first. Then improve upon them with the Wood Cups and MarkL Mod (I so need wood cups... just gotta have 'em). Then finally the re-cable, but only to compensate with the wood cups (if the wood cups change the sound a little, then the cable could help me bring it in-line or accentuate it).

Why the disparity in pricing?
http://www.buy.com/retail/usersearchresults.asp?querytype=home&qu=denon+ah-d2000&qxt=home&display=col

Nice review by the way. Do you think you might do a MarkL mod to your phones? I'm thinking of doing a stepped proces...

1. Stock D2000
2. Wood Cups with MarkL Mod
3. Full Recable (but with either the D5000-D7000 Cable, or something else).

- I want to wait on the re-cable, because I want to 'learn' the sound of the stock headphones first. Then improve upon them with the Wood Cups and MarkL Mod (I so need wood cups... just gotta have 'em). Then finally the re-cable, but only to compensate with the wood cups (if the wood cups change the sound a little, then the cable could help me bring it in-line or accentuate it).

No, first off I would much sooner send them to Larry at Headphile, he does good work and is a nice guy. I've never liked MarkL and have had several arguments with him so consider me bias. Second, his mods to "control" the bass bloat of the D5000 are overkill and while it "corrects" the bloat it waaaaay over corrects it and I feel the flabby bass complaints on the D5000 are exaggerated and easily tightened up with a good amp. Just my 2¢ YMMV.

I sent my D5000 to Alex at Apuresound for a recable and should have them back early next week. The D5000 I heard at a meet that he recabled were more detailed, darker between the notes, and had tighter bass... over all a cleaner presentation of everything I love about the D5000. Beyond that I have not desire to tweak them further, I really enjoy them as they are.

No, first off I would much sooner send them to Larry at Headphile, he does good work and is a nice guy. I've never liked MarkL and have had several arguments with him so consider me bias. Second, his mods to "control" the bass bloat of the D5000 are overkill and while it "corrects" the bloat it waaaaay over corrects it and I feel the flabby bass complaints on the D5000 are exaggerated and easily tightened up with a good amp. Just my 2¢ YMMV.

I sent my D5000 to Alex at Apuresound for a recable and should have them back early next week. The D5000 I heard at a meet that he recabled were more detailed, darker between the notes, and had tighter bass... over all a cleaner presentation of everything I love about the D5000. Beyond that I have not desire to tweak them further, I really enjoy them as they are.

Awesome! If you don't mind my asking. What re-cable did you get, and what was the going rate? You kinda threw me for a loop with the MarkL dislike thing here... but I do like the work Headphile does, I read somewhere that he doesn't do wood cups anymore for the Denon though. I was hoping to order for end of next week... but if skipping the upgrades on the D2000 is smart, then I'll just pickup the D5000 and call it a day (for awhile anyway). I wonder how'd they sound driven off of a uDac for a bit...

Oh, btw... don't listen to WTC, he's a jerk!

yea, i used oven cleaner to get them silver... you can put it in a plastic bowl out in the garage, or even in your oven if you need to (heat off obviously), just be careful, very caustic fumes.

I couldn't stand the "Prince Purple" on my 700s either. I just masked carefully the other areas and painted them flat black. Looks great.

Does anyone have a link or further info on cable-modding these? I've never done it before w/ headphones, but I'd like info on replacing the headphones or as mentioned, making the cable removable, etc...

Got my DT770s!

All my fears of them being too hungry for the Fiio have been put to rest! They are obviously lower in volume than the M50s, but they get loud enough with the Fiio with my netbook. edit: They are just barely loud enough with the Mixamp. This is definitely an issue for me.

Initial testing, pre-burn in:

Looks like I AM giving the M50s to my roomie. :D

They sound AS good as the M50s right now, with slightly clearer sound, and just a teeny bit less bass. I'd say they right now sound like they have 95% the bass of the M50s, but the M50s were burned in for over 3 days straight, while I tested the DT770s for 2 minutes, lol.

I'm officially now a 2 full sized headphone guy!

They sound kinda similar right now, so I see no need to own both.

I couldn't stand the "Prince Purple" on my 700s either. I just masked carefully the other areas and painted them flat black. Looks great.

Does anyone have a link or further info on cable-modding these? I've never done it before w/ headphones, but I'd like info on replacing the headphones or as mentioned, making the cable removable, etc...

Have any pics of your headphones? Did you mask the headphones themselves and paint the grill, or vice versa?

Got my DT770s!

All my fears of them being too hungry for the Fiio have been put to rest! They are obviously lower in volume than the M50s, but they actually sound about the same volume as the DT880s. Just have to raise the volume a bit on the Fiio to be satisfied, which I am. :)

Initial testing, pre-burn in:

Looks like I AM giving the M50s to my roomie. :D

They sound AS good as the M50s right now, with slightly clearer sound, and just a teeny bit less bass. I'd say they right now sound like they have 95% the bass of the M50s, but the M50s were burned in for over 3 days straight, while I tested the DT770s for 2 minutes, lol.

I'm officially now a 2 full sized headphone guy!

They sound kinda similar right now, so I see no need to own both.

I guess we'll need to add the M50s to my graph now. :p

This forum needs a "This user used to be XXXX" by the screen names! Just sayin...

Testing out, ME2 with the DT770s. I have to max out the mixamp volume, and put the game/voice knob at full 100% game. They are JUST loud enough for my taste.

I can 'deal' with this for now, but I'm obviously gonna have to add in an amp in between to be satisfied. I told y'all I liked it loud. There's NO way I could see myself with the K702's or 250ohm headphones with just the mixamp. It wouldn't work for me at all.

I added the Fiio E5 in between the mixamp and DT770s and it's definitely more than loud enough. Perhaps that's all I'll need if I want it loud. I just wish it were a little louder with just the mixamp.

To let you guys know, the ATH-M50s is a better deal for SURE. The DT770s are just slightly better. I like their styling more, but SQ wise, I'd put them in the same territory.

If I had to choose just one to recommend, I'd say the M50s. Fraction of the price, similar performance. That is unless the DT770s do a complete 180 on me after burn in.

I guess we'll need to add the M50s to my graph now. :p

Yeah, please do.

Can you make a graph with:

DT770 Pro 80
DT880 32
XB700
M50
AD700

Please? Unless I have weird ears, I feel that the M50s and DT770s are very similar. But are VERY bassy (after raising up the low end a little), but still can't match the XB700s. But at least the M50s and DT770s are usable for gaming. The XB700s were way too much for video games, lol.

I'm gonna buy another Fiio E5, as my girlfriend needs one paired up with her PS3 (running the ps3 composites to a 3.5mm adapter) for when she games while I'm sleeping.

All I need is a Fiio E5 with the Mixamp, and I'm more than happy. :)

That's it for me. I'm gonna get the KSC75 for work and I'm done. Can't really take my Beyers to work. o_O

"http://rwaudio.com/amp1"

Yeah, please do.

Can you make a graph with:

DT770 Pro 80
DT880 32
XB700
M50
AD700

Please? Unless I have weird ears, I feel that the M50s and DT770s are very similar. But are VERY bassy (after raising up the low end a little), but still can't match the XB700s. But at least the M50s and DT770s are usable for gaming. The XB700s were way too much for video games, lol.

I'm gonna buy another Fiio E5, as my girlfriend needs one paired up with her PS3 (running the ps3 composites to a 3.5mm adapter) for when she games while I'm sleeping.

All I need is a Fiio E5 with the Mixamp, and I'm more than happy. :)

That's it for me. I'm gonna get the KSC75 for work and I'm done. Can't really take my Beyers to work. o_O

http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php

Awesome! If you don't mind my asking. What re-cable did you get, and what was the going rate? You kinda threw me for a loop with the MarkL dislike thing here... but I do like the work Headphile does, I read somewhere that he doesn't do wood cups anymore for the Denon though. I was hoping to order for end of next week... but if skipping the upgrades on the D2000 is smart, then I'll just pickup the D5000 and call it a day (for awhile anyway). I wonder how'd they sound driven off of a uDac for a bit...

Oh, btw... don't listen to WTC, he's a jerk!

I got the 4' V3 clear with 1/8" termination which was $200. A bit pricey and I probably would not have done it had I not heard the difference but I've lived with the D5000 long enough to know that I really like them and I do not solder and have no interest in learning so I feel good sending them to a good guy that does quality work.

As for MarkL I know there have been a lot of headfiers happy with his mods so best thing to do is get the D5000 or D2000 and see what you don't like about them (if anything) and go from there. I really like their overall character and know that my sonic tastes are not in sync with MarkL's sonic tastes so I would not send him a headphone I already like to have him turn it into something he likes.

As for the uDac I have not heard it so can not say but the D5000 in my experience has been easy to drive and not too picky when matching with other gear.

http://i44.tinypic.com/1pgu21.png

Looks like I was right, going by the graph. They are similar until you get to the top end. The more I hear the DT770s, the more I hear and feel the bass. I have no doubts the bass is punchier than the M50s after burn in.

Damn, I can't believe how deliciously flat the DT880s are. :)

Testing out, ME2 with the DT770s. I have to max out the mixamp volume, and put the game/voice knob at full 100% game. They are JUST loud enough for my taste.

I can 'deal' with this for now, but I'm obviously gonna have to add in an amp in between to be satisfied. I told y'all I liked it loud. There's NO way I could see myself with the K702's or 250ohm headphones with just the mixamp. It wouldn't work for me at all.


those sound much much harder to drive than the k702 for pure volume.... if i put my mixamp on those settings with the k702's i think my ears would bleed.... the k702's with the mixamp are just a tiny hair harder to drive than the ad700.

"http://rwaudio.com/amp1"
thanks for the link, looks promising... it's also nice to see they use national semiconductor products, as my company was once a part of national, and we have opamps that are comparable and higher performance, so i can try rolling opamps for free :)

i wonder if the amp1 would have any issue being between the cans and the mixamp.

Damn. Oh well. I ordered the KSC75 and another Fiio E5, to complete my headphone purchases.

Later on (as in way later), I'll be waiting on the iBasso D4 to fully satisfy me when it comes all of this madness, lol.

Thanks guys for all your help.

http://i44.tinypic.com/1pgu21.png

Looks like I was right, going by the graph. They are similar until you get to the top end. The more I hear the DT770s, the more I hear and feel the bass. I have no doubts the bass is punchier than the M50s after burn in.

Damn, I can't believe how deliciously flat the DT880s are. :)

You said Delicious... http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv356/sid3w8z/em82-1.gif

Hahaha. I do like flat chested headphones.
















Never mind. :p

those sound much much harder to drive than the k702 for pure volume.... if i put my mixamp on those settings with the k702's i think my ears would bleed.... the k702's with the mixamp are just a tiny hair harder to drive than the ad700.

I got a nice Mogami W2893 with your name on it...:D:D:D:D

http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php

I ran my Senn HD280 Pro's on there. I have to say it shows better bass than I would've guessed. I just wish they had my PC350's on there.

Have any pics of your headphones? Did you mask the headphones themselves and paint the grill, or vice versa?

I painted the grille. Pics attached. I peeled off the AT logo plate, masked, and painted two coats of flat black. Also another thing I love about the 700s (that I know some don't) is the way the headband is done. It's the only style I've seen perfect for clipping the reflective clip from my TrackIR head-tracking camera for gaming. The clip normally is meant to clip to the bill of a baseball hat, but fits perfectly on the open "band" of these headphones without any altering. Can be pulled off and removed in about a second if needed. These can be seen in the 2nd pic.

Update: I messed up and used the non-32ohm DT880s on the last graph. The 32ohm was almost exactly the same anyway...

Here are my current phones, with the exception of the RE0s...

http://i41.tinypic.com/6ifcpe.png

I got a nice Mogami W2893 with your name on it...:D:D:D:D

all done? got picamatures? is that mogami the smaller wire?

I painted the grille. Pics attached. I peeled off the AT logo plate, masked, and painted two coats of flat black. Also another thing I love about the 700s (that I know some don't) is the way the headband is done. It's the only style I've seen perfect for clipping the reflective clip from my TrackIR head-tracking camera for gaming. The clip normally is meant to clip to the bill of a baseball hat, but fits perfectly on the open "band" of these headphones without any altering. Can be pulled off and removed in about a second if needed. These can be seen in the 2nd pic.

looks about like mine, except i removed the foam behind the driver (and i removed the grills to paint, i hate masking).... you game in an unfinished basement too? :D

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/333/blackad7001.jpg

Is that the Goldpoint pro amp that comes in a flat or upright version? I tend to shy away from the bright, analytical amps. I like the RSA house sound and I was a big fan of the Lisa when I owned it. Headrooms amps have for the most part sounded somewhat uninvolving to me. Times like this I really wish I'd have gone to a meet recently. I'd love to put the T1 or HD800 in my crosshairs but it would be a waste with nothing more than my Mustang right now.
It is bright IMO, but still musical.. I just don't think it matches well with my gear.. my DT48 & the oppo83se sound a bit analytical to me.

Why the disparity in pricing?
http://www.buy.com/retail/usersearchresults.asp?querytype=home&qu=denon+ah-d2000&qxt=home&display=col

Nice review by the way. Do you think you might do a MarkL mod to your phones? I'm thinking of doing a stepped process...

1. Stock D2000
2. Wood Cups with MarkL Mod
3. Full Recable (but with either the D5000-D7000 Cable, or something else).

- I want to wait on the re-cable, because I want to 'learn' the sound of the stock headphones first. Then improve upon them with the Wood Cups and MarkL Mod (I so need wood cups... just gotta have 'em). Then finally the re-cable, but only to compensate with the wood cups (if the wood cups change the sound a little, then the cable could help me bring it in-line or accentuate it).

Not a MarkL fan.. His mod got attention cause he claims it sounded better then his R10:rolleyes: Oddly enough, no one thinks otherwise.. He even sold the R10.. Then all of a sudden he starts his own business.. I'm sure mark is a bright man.. The mods seem to work.. This is capitalism at work, so kudo's to Mark.. But the cups all the way down to the cables are vastly overpriced.. You could pay someone to make your wooden cups for a fraction of the price, & the cables are more expensive then others from APS, etc..Which is just as good if not better.. & He uses Jenna cables.. The same company that ruined a mans R10 by botching the cable job then having AOL/Jenna lie about it.. The recable was also 1,500.. Of course Mark defended them, & what do you know.. He uses Jenna labs cables!!:cool:

Just google jenna labs R10

Not a MarkL fan.. His mod got attention cause he claims it sounded better then his R10:rolleyes: Oddly enough, no one thinks otherwise.. He even sold the R10.. Then all of a sudden he starts his own business.. I'm sure mark is a bright man.. The mods seem to work.. This is capitalism at work, so kudo's to Mark.. But the cups all the way down to the cables are vastly overpriced.. You could pay someone to make your wooden cups for a fraction of the price, & the cables are more expensive then others from APS, etc..Which is just as good if not better.. & He uses Jenna cables.. The same company that ruined a mans R10 by botching the cable job then having AOOL/Jenna lie about it.. The recable was also 1,500.. Of course Mark defended them, & what do you know.. He uses Jenna labs cables!!:cool:
So take that!
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/iamjackspictures/dumbdumbersabre21oa.gif

those sound much much harder to drive than the k702 for pure volume.... if i put my mixamp on those settings with the k702's i think my ears would bleed.... the k702's with the mixamp are just a tiny hair harder to drive than the ad700.


thanks for the link, looks promising... it's also nice to see they use national semiconductor products, as my company was once a part of national, and we have opamps that are comparable and higher performance, so i can try rolling opamps for free :)

i wonder if the amp1 would have any issue being between the cans and the mixamp.The K702s are much harder to drive than the AD700 on my mixamp. The K702s are maybe 2 times quieter (at least) given the same master volume and voice/game mix.

all done? got picamatures? is that mogami the smaller wire?

No picamatures, haven't built the cable yet... but I remember you saying you liked the mini quad, which is what the 2893 is.

So take that!
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/iamjackspictures/dumbdumbersabre21oa.gif

Ok, I won't use him. Where can I source wood cups for the Denon then, hmmmm....

Ok, I won't use him. Where can I source wood cups for the Denon then, hmmmm....

Why not just go with the D5000 and skip it all together? They come with nice wood cups and a better stock cable. If you can afford to I'd say just order some D5000 from somewhere that has a normal 30 day return window then if you like them but want certain things tweaked you can plan that down the road? Best to find what you like before you plan the mods. I'd go:

1. Headphones
2. Source
3. Amp
4. Cables/Tweaks

edit
And on the subject of plans I think I will be parting ways with my DT880 (for now) and looking at the following setup:

Wadia iTransport > V-DAC > Burson HA-160 > K702 hardwired w/ 5' Black Dragon or D5000 w/ APS V3.

The iTransport will probably be last but the HA-160 and V-DAC are working their way to the top of my list!

you game in an unfinished basement too? :D


Yep, my wife is an artist so 1/2 the basement is her home studio, so unfinished was the way to go. Still heated, insulated, and powered, so I'm good to go. I built two car simulator rigs for my son and I to race on, which is mostly how I game. So my rig wouldn't fit in well in the finished parts of the house, ha!