I use a Creative DDTS-100 mini-decoder which attaches to my (upgraded) Klipsch Ultra 5.1 audio system.

The DDTS-100 decodes:

Dolby Digital (EX)
DTS (ES)
Matrix modes (NEO6,PLII,etc)

I have an x360 elite and the HD-DVD addon. So far, with all movies I haven't haven't had a problem getting 5.1 audio out of the movie title.

Will there be a situation in the future that on a retail HD-DVD that I would be limited to a 2.0 audio track due to my decoders lack of ability to decode anything better than "old school" DD/DTS?

Most people do not buy the latest and greatest, and manufactures are very well aware of this fact, so backwards compatibility will be very important for them in order to sell as much as possible.

That said, the will be new improvements that you may not use, and ultimately your equipment will be obsolete.

If you are happy with what you have now you do not have to worry so much for the next few years.

All HD-DVDs and BDs must carry a DD track....so you will be fine. However, no, you can't enjoy the latest higher quality formats.

Even if the disc sole soundtrack is a .dtshd Master Audio "lossless" one, it will still contain the good old DTS core at 24/48 5.1, so it will decode in your setup.
That's the advantage of DTS-HD MAS - guaranteed compliance with all DTS decoders, to the highest quality the individual system is capable of, automatically.
Less arsing around in authoring too, with DD/DD+/True HD (aka MLP) streams all required for guaranteed playback, created using a tools at 5 times the price.
Dolby are very greedy with their insane licensing costs.

Even if the disc sole soundtrack is a .dtshd Master Audio "lossless" one, it will still contain the good old DTS core at 24/48 5.1, so it will decode in your setup.
That's the advantage of DTS-HD MAS - guaranteed compliance with all DTS decoders, to the highest quality the individual system is capable of, automatically.
Less arsing around in authoring too, with DD/DD+/True HD (aka MLP) streams all required for guaranteed playback, created using a tools at 5 times the price.
Dolby are very greedy with their insane licensing costs.

Yet with HD-DVD, TrueHD seems to be the lossless codec of choice. Must not be too expensive.

Yet with HD-DVD, TrueHD seems to be the lossless codec of choice. Must not be too expensive.

It is.
$10,000 plus for the Dolby Media Producer (Mac OSX only) against $1500 for the DTS-HD MAS.
The biggest problem is that Dolby got in there first, as DTS-HD MAS decoders took time to get right - they have to be capable of decoding all legacy content as well as .dtshd types, and this is what took the time.
At least DTS had the decency to wait, and get it right.
One stream will fit all.
Trouble is the decoder chips.....

Can't you either run 6ch analog as well as Digital Coax/Optical in PCM to get the full bitrate of the new audio formats?

It is.
$10,000 plus for the Dolby Media Producer (Mac OSX only) against $1500 for the DTS-HD MAS.
The biggest problem is that Dolby got in there first, as DTS-HD MAS decoders took time to get right - they have to be capable of decoding all legacy content as well as .dtshd types, and this is what took the time.
At least DTS had the decency to wait, and get it right.
One stream will fit all.
Trouble is the decoder chips.....

Yeah that's one way to look at it, or just simply conclude it that DTS wasn't ready at the BD launch. I'm sure they were aware of the deadline.

Can't you either run 6ch analog as well as Digital Coax/Optical in PCM to get the full bitrate of the new audio formats?

NO. 6-ch analog or HDMI 1.1+ is the only way to fully transmit the lossless formats.

NO. 6-ch analog or HDMI 1.1+ is the only way to fully transmit the lossless formats.

Or via FireWire if the player/amplifier supports it.

It is.
$10,000 plus for the Dolby Media Producer (Mac OSX only) against $1500 for the DTS-HD MAS.
The biggest problem is that Dolby got in there first, as DTS-HD MAS decoders took time to get right - they have to be capable of decoding all legacy content as well as .dtshd types, and this is what took the time.
At least DTS had the decency to wait, and get it right.
One stream will fit all.
Trouble is the decoder chips.....

Neil, taking a break from the Quad forum, eh? I think the biggest problem right now is that there isn't a single HD-DVD or Blur-Ray that can play DTS-HD MA. There are a few that can handle DTS-HD HR but DTS-HD MA is still downconverted to regular DTS.

The second biggest problem is differentiation. TrueHD and DTS-HD MA should both produce the same lossless signal when finished. So why one over the other? I wonder what the real-world bandwidth difference is between TrueHD and DTS-HD MA?

Neil, taking a break from the Quad forum, eh? I think the biggest problem right now is that there isn't a single HD-DVD or Blur-Ray that can play DTS-HD MA. There are a few that can handle DTS-HD HR but DTS-HD MA is still downconverted to regular DTS.

The second biggest problem is differentiation. TrueHD and DTS-HD MA should both produce the same lossless signal when finished. So why one over the other? I wonder what the real-world bandwidth difference is between TrueHD and DTS-HD MA?

AGreed.
The next-generation of HD DVD players from Toshiba will rectify this situation - along with another one that for me is much, much more of a problem - no PAL 25fps support in HD DVD at all, or in Blu Ray either.
PAL support just is not there.
24p gets converted in the players to 29.97NTSC "on the fly", and 25p just does not exist. It's supposed to get sorted in October - but 50i is still "under consideration" apparently. Like, what's to consider?
SO the stream will be valid from October.
The delay has been caused by the decoders at 5.1 24/192 Blu Ray specifications. It has now (apparently) been solved. The chips are being made available to 3rd party builders so expect to see a flood of HDMI 1.3 machines decoding all DTS up to DTS-HD MAS.
The real beauty is that all streams are in the single, one .dtshd file. The core audio will still be present, so will the HR versions, so will downmixing from 7.1 to 5.1 to 2.0, and it will truly be a "one stream does all" system.
Dolby True HD is MLP by another name.
Problem is that you need both the True HD as well as the DD and DD+ streams for full compliance & playback on widest range of systems, and it still won;t be as flexible as DTSHD is.
With DTS-HD, I have so many options:
DTS-HD MAS (true Lossless)
DTS-HD High Resolution (core at 24/48 or 24/96 with double bitrate (3Mbps instead of the usual 1.509)
DTS-ES
DTS 96/24
DTS core
It encodes for Blu Ray, HD DVD, HD DVD SubAudio, DTS-CD (well, soon anyway) and will also include full stream player (current 1.1 build has a stupid ProTools plugin) as well as the usual "Strip/Append/Edit/Join/Stripe" tools.
It's under $1500 against close to $12,000 for the Dolby kit.
Plus the DTS one has a cut-back version at $749.
It's Mac/PC, yet Dobly are Mac OSX only.....I have to admit to being a definite fan of DTS. It just sounds better than Dolby Digital or Dolby Digital Plus ever can to me.

AGreed.
...

The real beauty is that all streams are in the single, one .dtshd file. The core audio will still be present, so will the HR versions, so will downmixing from 7.1 to 5.1 to 2.0, and it will truly be a "one stream does all" system.
Dolby True HD is MLP by another name.
Problem is that you need both the True HD as well as the DD and DD+ streams for full compliance & playback on widest range of systems, and it still won;t be as flexible as DTSHD is.
With DTS-HD, I have so many options:
DTS-HD MAS (true Lossless)
DTS-HD High Resolution (core at 24/48 or 24/96 with double bitrate (3Mbps instead of the usual 1.509)
DTS-ES
DTS 96/24
DTS core

...



Neil, no kidding! I had not realized it was one stream. I was assuming (bad me) that the DTS core was built-up with the core being an individual stream. I must admit I am much more interested now.

The biggest pain with DD is getting the 2-channel downmix to sound right after getting 5.1 mixed properly. I can only imagine trying to get all the different Dolby streams to play right together is just as much of a pain.

I just fear that DTS repeated the same mistake as when DVD came out. If they had been first to market then we would have a lot more DTS on discs, but it took at few generations of DVD players before DTS (for DVD) could even be passed out the Toslink. It always seems as if DTS is always fighting an uphill battle - at least that is my perception.

When is the new encoder supposed to be available?

Andy

Andy.

The DTS-HD MAS encoder is already at version 1.1 now - I have had this for a few months. All that is missing from it at this time is the ability to create DTS-CD and the built-in .dtshd stream player. They are currently shipping it with the Neyrinck DTS-HD Stream Player until the 1.5 update is ready - which will include the DTS own player.
Until this time, checking the stream aurally is a matter of either
A - Using ProTools, or PT-LE (M-Powered type box)
B - manually decoding the .dtshd stream in a command line tool (a pain), or
C - using a BD-RE disc & writing a test stream using something like Adobe's Encore CS3 which supports Blu Ray and DTS-HD in all forms.
Of course, when the stream is encoded you get a verification log (as it is lossless in Master Audio form) and this also works for DTS-HD High Rez as well as the old DTS Core Audio and DTS-ES / DTS 9624 modes.
Going from 7.1 Master Audio to DTS Core is done with a built-in Downmix setup, using proper faders rather than entering in often meaningless numbers. Ditto downmixing to 2.0 as well in the HD versions (Downmixing is not part of the core specs though)
The core stream is always included in every DTS-HD stream. For example, setting the .dtshd MAS stream is a VBR encode, and the encoder gives you the options for the core stream as well (1509 or 768 kbps).
It's genuinely all-in-one.
See http://www.dtsonline.com/pro-audio/mas.php