A big thank you to Pacific disk for updating us on the prices:

http://www.pacificdisc.com/PricingHD-DVD.html
http://www.pacificdisc.com/PricingBluRay.html

Once of Paramount's foundation for announcing the dropping of Blu-ray Support and go HD DVD exclusive, replication cost.

according to the official quote:

A Single layer 25GB Blu-ray disk = $2.95
A double layer 30GB HD DVD = $2.09 (almost a $1 cheaper)

the above prices = equal at 100K ;) still its 30GB for HD DVD and 25GB for BD.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/7209/hddvdvsbdbo6.jpg

Any movie-studio's title-release would involve an order-size of at least 25,000 (probably closer to 100,000.) At the quantities a typical Hollywood movie, and ordering through Pacifidisc, it looks like HD-DVD 30GB has no cost-advantage over BD 25GB -- advantage is the extra +5GB.

What i find interesting, is that SL HD-DVD (15GB) offers minimal savings.

I guess the question is, those studios which own and operate their own HD-DVD/BD-ROM replication equipment, are their costs comparable to what Pacifidisc charges?

Thanks for posting the prices.

Well HD DVD still has the price advantage it seems. And again, who knows what the DL BDs cost? The fact that they aren't even listed suggests they are probably a lot more. And I was under the impression most recent releases are on BD-DL, so we still not have a real idea of the cost difference.

Not a big shock, but at this point in the format war not all that relevant. This gap would inevitably close as Blu-ray replicators ramp up.

Amir at the insider thread stated that the cost of Dual Layer BR is around $4.00 per. Ouch! I wonder what HD-DVD 51gig will cost?

The price difference is only very large for orders of less than 2500.

at 2500, the price difference is 20 cents.
at 10K, the price difference is 4 cents.
at 100K, the price difference is 0 cents(unpackaged)

Not a big shock, but at this point in the format war not all that relevant. This gap would inevitably close as Blu-ray replicators ramp up.

Or the price difference will remain the same as HD DVD replicators ramp up

The price difference is only very large for orders of less than 2500.

at 2500, the price difference is 20 cents.
at 10K, the price difference is 4 cents.
at 100K, the price difference is 0 cents(unpackaged)

erm the prices that you have mentioned are for Double layer 30GB HD DVD vs single layer 25GB Blu-ray disk ;)

There are other costs also. Upfront costs for the BD stamper can't be offset by producing anything other than BD discs. HD DVD production equipment can also produce DVD which is currently the bulk of production. Also as pointed out the HD30 and BD25 basically cost the same to produce in bulk, with HD30 getting an extra 5GB of storage at volume prices.

When I asked the gentleman from Pacific what the replication costs were on BD50 he indicated that they were higher and currently Pacific doesn't have the ability to produce them.

Again.... when a BD machine is not producing BD media it is sitting idle, when an HD DVD stamper is not producing HD DVD it is completely useable for producing DVD.

Final point. In a 2005 article about BD manufacturing, one of the larget German equipment makers of HD DVD and BD production equipment indicated that their BD25 stamping equipment might be upgradeable to producing BD50.

Millions of dollars for a BD line and it might be upgradeable to producing BD50 in the future? Yikes.

Or the price difference will remain the same as HD DVD replicators ramp up

There is a floor in which it won't ever be cheaper than replicating DVD, which is basically commodity pricing at this point. It looks like Pacific Disc charges about double for HD DVD-30 vs. DVD-9 at the moment.

One question for the HD-DVD folk...

If it's so much cheaper to replicate HD-DVD, then why don't they pass the cost savings on to the consumer?

Last time I checked, average prices were a lot higher to purchase HD-DVD movies, and weren't any different if you exclude the double-sided HD-DVD/SD-DVD discs.

Why aren't you helping the consumer save money, HD-DVD???

As has been said many times, the many box sets on HD DVD throw off the quick averages, as for what difference is left, the studios like money. Since when did they do anything for YOU? :)

One question for the HD-DVD folk...

If it's so much cheaper to replicate HD-DVD, then why don't they pass the cost savings on to the consumer?

Last time I checked, average prices were a lot higher to purchase HD-DVD movies, and weren't any different if you exclude the double-sided HD-DVD/SD-DVD discs.

Why aren't you helping the consumer save money, HD-DVD???

its illogical to do so. imagine Warner selling HD DVD disturbia at $24.99 and BD version at $29.99. Warner might as well do not release the BD version :p

I wonder what the yield rates are like too.

Honestly I feel Paramount ditched bluray because bluray media doesn't scale well enough for mass market sales. That combined with cheaper players means hd-dvd is better equipped to take the load DVD currently handles. I guess when you also factor in the simpler mastering process, HD DVD is ready for prime time, bluray still needs to get their act together with respect to java and this silly 1.1 spec nonsense.

^HD DVD is definately better prepared to meet mass market demand than BD.

Amir at the insider thread stated that the cost of Dual Layer BR is around $4.00 per. Ouch! I wonder what HD-DVD 51gig will cost?

There's 4 sides to every story; yours, mine, the truth, and Amir's spin :D

Perhaps we should ask Sony about Toshiba's A20 cost price. They'd be about as qualified to anwer as Amir is to answer the replication cost question.

One question for the HD-DVD folk...

If it's so much cheaper to replicate HD-DVD, then why don't they pass the cost savings on to the consumer?

Last time I checked, average prices were a lot higher to purchase HD-DVD movies, and weren't any different if you exclude the double-sided HD-DVD/SD-DVD discs.

Why aren't you helping the consumer save money, HD-DVD???

Hmm. I recently picked up Batman Begins and Waterworld on HD-DVD for $23.99 each. That seams reasonable. They are both Universal titles. A company that is making strictly for HD-DVD.

My guess is that if there is more price added to HD-DVD releases, it's to make up for the production costs on the other BD side. Once the studio decides to go HD-DVD exclusive, software prices will drop. I'm positive that Paramounts prices will quickly decline for software as more users start adopting HD-DVD and as more discs are sold. Especially since they don't need to waste needless money making two formats.

The OP should also mention the $1500 mastering fee for HD DVD and $2500 for Blu-Ray for smaller orders (<10000). Blu-Ray required AACS for pressed discs last time I checked, so Blu-Ray productions need to add another $2500 license plus .10 per disc.

Not a big shock, but at this point in the format war not all that relevant. This gap would inevitably close as Blu-ray replicators ramp up.

Is there any information (public, private or otherwise) that indicates that BD50 replicators are making progress on upping their yields and decreasing their cycle times? Any?

While many manufacturing problems are solve-able, many are not solve-able economically. Granted, I do not have specific subject matter expertise in this particular area (the pressing of discs) but until I see some publicly available data that indicates what the BD50 replication issues are, how they are being approached for solution, and an open forum for discussion around why that approach will or won't be successful . . . .I'm calling economic BD50 replication "vapor".

One question for the HD-DVD folk...

If it's so much cheaper to replicate HD-DVD, then why don't they pass the cost savings on to the consumer?

Last time I checked, average prices were a lot higher to purchase HD-DVD movies, and weren't any different if you exclude the double-sided HD-DVD/SD-DVD discs.

Why aren't you helping the consumer save money, HD-DVD???

Because like the smart businesses they are, dual format studios are testing the market around adoption rates, etc. Same price = fair test.

One question for the HD-DVD folk...

If it's so much cheaper to replicate HD-DVD, then why don't they pass the cost savings on to the consumer?

Last time I checked, average prices were a lot higher to purchase HD-DVD movies, and weren't any different if you exclude the double-sided HD-DVD/SD-DVD discs.

Why aren't you helping the consumer save money, HD-DVD???

Because it costs them more to replicate on HD DVD, with Blu Ray Sony are doing it for free.

One question for the HD-DVD folk...

If it's so much cheaper to replicate HD-DVD, then why don't they pass the cost savings on to the consumer?



in the auto industry, they look for ways to save half a penny on a car part. when the half penny is multiplied by millions of cars sold, it adds up to huge amounts of money.

if you sell movies for 29.95 and your competition sells them for 29.95 but your replication costs are lower then you are in a better position to make profits. also, the consumer price isn't set by the replication cost. it is set by value that the studio thinks they are providing. i guess that is why the spiderman3 release is so expensive.

lower production cost is a good reason for a studio to support a format, if they just passed the savings on then it removes that benefit for them.

the advantage to the consumer is that the studios can make more or better movies.

if studios don't meke money, there is no point in them making a disc.

EDIT: do consumers care or even notice if a car or a movie cost a penny less?

in the auto industry, they look for ways to save half a penny on a car part. when the half penny is multiplied by millions of cars sold, it adds up to huge amounts of money.

if you sell movies for 29.95 and your competition sells them for 29.95 but your replication costs are lower then you are in a better position to make profits. also, the consumer price isn't set by the replication cost. it is set by value that the studio thinks they are providing. i guess that is why the spiderman3 release is so expensive.

lower production cost is a good reason for a studio to support a format, if they just passed the savings on then it removes that benefit for them.

the advantage to the consumer is that the studios can make more or better movies.

if studios don't meke money, there is no point in them making a disc.

EDIT: do consumers care or even notice if a car or a movie cost a penny less?

Bingo. Well said.

It is the content that drives the price not the piece of plastic its printed on.

erm the prices that you have mentioned are for Double layer 30GB HD DVD vs single layer 25GB Blu-ray disk ;)

Isn't that what your original post is comparing?

Is there any information (public, private or otherwise) that indicates that BD50 replicators are making progress on upping their yields and decreasing their cycle times? Any?

While many manufacturing problems are solve-able, many are not solve-able economically. Granted, I do not have specific subject matter expertise in this particular area (the pressing of discs) but until I see some publicly available data that indicates what the BD50 replication issues are, how they are being approached for solution, and an open forum for discussion around why that approach will or won't be successful . . . .I'm calling economic BD50 replication "vapor".

That makes perfect sense:

First fantasize, then declare that unless you're fantasies are disproved by fact, despite the fact that there is no evidence to prove them, you're fantasies must be real.

BTW the only thing that the OP proves is that there is very little difference in disk manufacturing in the quatniies that would be produced by any of the large studios. There is also no evidence that HD scales better either, really, if you guys don't have any proof for any of these claims, why post?

So how much do the combos cost?

Thanks for posting the prices.

Do we know how many studios so far have only ordered a pressing of 1,000 discs?


Aren't there 600,000+ copies of Casino Royale in people's homes?

Hmm. I recently picked up Batman Begins and Waterworld on HD-DVD for $23.99 each. That seams reasonable. They are both Universal titles. A company that is making strictly for HD-DVD.
Waterworld is indeed a Universal title, but Batman Begins is Warner Bros.

I seem to notice you're resurrecting a thread that's been dead for over a year.

wow

take out the shovel and exhume this carcass!

Level 4 Thread Necromancer

Latest quoting is around $2.70 for BD50s in 10,000 unit lots, including blue plastic box, label wrap, and shrink wrapping and $1.80 for BD25s. Studios are probably paying half that or less.

Blu-ray replication pricing is now pretty much a non issue for any commercial project aimed at consumers. Its $1-$2 more than DVD9, but if you can't factor that into your sales model now, then its hardly a viable HD project to begin with.

BD50 capacity is still a bit of a constraint, but thats going to even been eliminated as more lines come on line early next year. Right now, theres enough capacity available to just around any shortfalls and to service 4Q replication needs.

BD50 capacity is still a bit of a constraint, but thats going to even been eliminated as more lines come on line early next year. Right now, theres enough capacity available to just around any shortfalls and to service 4Q replication needs.



which lines are you using?

Singulus BluLine or Japanese one ??

Michael

My sources are using mostly Singulus BluLine II IIRC. I only talk to them.

My sources are using mostly Singulus BluLine II IIRC. I only talk to them.

Thanks

MoldPro injection molding maschines with Axxicon produced molds.


do you have any info on Yield on BD50 on those lines ?


Michael