"To me it is a validation of a strategic stance we have taken, and I am so pleased that Paramount and DreamWorks have done as thorough an evaluation as they have done and come to the same exactly conclusion that we did long ago, which is that with HD DVD we have a format that offers the best and most affordable consumer experience," said Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment. Universal was the only studio to exclusively support HD DVD. "

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i860b8f4c465fb30a07b635f97e24e642?imw=Y

Any more speculation about Universal going neutral?

I went format-neutral at the beginning, but then sold my HD-DVD player. I did, however, keep the 7 or so discs....just in case.

About a month ago I bought an A-20 and have NEVER been so happy with a purchase. It was night and day for upconversion on SD-DVD and stunning on HD-DVD's.

I have a great friend who is Blu-Ray to the death, but he is in the NAVY and out to sea in a submarine. He knows nothing of this news. When he comes back his wife (also my friend) will have an HD-DVD player in anticipation for the new Paramount/Dreamworks stuff.

He'll like it because of Transformers, I guarantee it.

"To me it is a validation of a strategic stance we have taken, and I am so pleased that Paramount and DreamWorks have done as thorough an evaluation as they have done and come to the same exactly conclusion that we did long ago, which is that with HD DVD we have a format that offers the best and most affordable consumer experience," said Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment. Universal was the only studio to exclusively support HD DVD. "

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i860b8f4c465fb30a07b635f97e24e642?imw=Y

Well, I guess Universal going neutral won't be Beatboys big announcement!

Any more speculation about Universal going neutral?

Any such announcement would have to be accompanied by the announcement that Mr. Kornblau has left the company to seek other opportunities.

Expect the speculation to continue with GE deciding to can his butt.

Any such announcement would have to be accompanied by the announcement that Mr. Kornblau has left the company to seek other opportunities.

Expect the speculation to continue with GE deciding to can his butt.

How about GE buys Sony? GE is 2.5X bigger than Sony. Then they pull the plug on the PS3 and BD in one fell swoop and end the format war?

How's THAT for speculation?
:eek:

Any such announcement would have to be accompanied by the announcement that Mr. Kornblau has left the company to seek other opportunities.

Expect the speculation to continue with GE deciding to can his butt.

thats not gonna happen

toshiba is a major partner to g/e's shopnbc channel ,their biggest selling items in electronics is the regza 42" hdtv's coupled with either the toshiba upconverter player or the hddvd player ,they always sellout completely and they usually bring in 2000 at a time

Does anyone find it strange that we have not heard a single word from Ken G of Universal?

He is the head spokesman for the HD DVD Promotions Group.

I wonder why Kornblau is now making all the statements and doing the interviews? Maybe because Grey and Katzenberg are studio heads and Ken is not?

Very puzzling.

Well we did hear from Steven Speilberg and Michael Bay:D

More funny speculation. Microsoft will buy Disney. This would put Microsoft in a postition to win the format war and to control how video is distributed in the future.

thats not gonna happen

toshiba is a major partner to g/e's shopnbc channel ,their biggest selling items in electronics is the regza 42" hdtv's coupled with either the toshiba upconverter player or the hddvd player ,they always sellout completely and they usually bring in 2000 at a time

Doesn't mean people won't speculate. Watch:

GE/NBC will look very closely at how sales of Heroes and Battlestar Galactica first seasons on HD DVD sell compared to Lost Season Three on BD. If Lost can outsell both of them, pressure to go neutral will build and Universal will be neutral com February.



See how easy it is?

More funny speculation. Microsoft will buy Disney. This would put Microsoft in a postition to win the format war and to control how video is distributed in the future.

:D
As Disney's largest shareholder, Steve Jobs would never let that happen.

"To me it is a validation of a strategic stance we have taken, and I am so pleased that Paramount and DreamWorks have done as thorough an evaluation as they have done and come to the same exactly conclusion that we did long ago, which is that with HD DVD we have a format that offers the best and most affordable consumer experience," said Craig Kornblau, president of Universal Studios Home Entertainment. Universal was the only studio to exclusively support HD DVD. "

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/news/e3i860b8f4c465fb30a07b635f97e24e642?imw=Y

Meaningless pontification form people who 'live for spin'. I can think of 150 million different reaons .....

I must say, I am increasingly pessimistic about the long-term viability of either HD format now that it appears the 'war' is more firmly enthreched than ever. Simply gives the majority of consumers a long-term reason to sit on the sidelines.

I reiterate my oprion that our beloved industry is run by greedy idiots!

:D
As Disney's largest shareholder, Steve Jobs would never let that happen.
Perhaps, but it should be noted that Apple software already supports HD DVD to an extent. Apple's DVD Studio Pro (http://www.apple.com/finalcutstudio/dvdstudiopro/) can burn (H.264-based non-DRM'd) discs that meet the official HD DVD spec, and DVD Player.app (which ships with every single Mac) can play back these discs.

Meaningless pontification form people who 'live for spin'. I can think of 150 million different reaons .....

I must say, I am increasingly pessimistic about the long-term viability of either HD format now that it appears the 'war' is more firmly enthreched than ever. Simply gives the majority of consumers a long-term reason to sit on the sidelines.

I reiterate my oprion that our beloved industry is run by greedy idiots!

You JUST figured this out? The Studio = Greed has never been the mantra of Hollywood since the famous Paramount Decision of the early 1950's?

I must say, I am increasingly pessimistic about the long-term viability of either HD format now that it appears the 'war' is more firmly enthreched than ever.

Honestly, I think it seems that way because we aren't in Q4 yet and haven't seen holiday software -- and more importantly at this stage, hardware -- sales data.

:D
As Disney's largest shareholder, Steve Jobs would never let that happen.


Well, when everyone else jumps to HD DVD, then he can just call the format "Disney Ray". :D;)

Freddy

Well, when everyone else jumps to HD DVD, then he can just call the format "Disney Ray". :D;)

Freddy

:D

You JUST figured this out? The Studio = Greed has never been the mantra of Hollywood since the famous Paramount Decision of the early 1950's?

Uh, no McFly, thus my use of the word 'reiterate'.

Just particularly cheezed off lately so felt the need to reiterate my opinion.

... and dont you mean 'has always been'

Does anyone find it strange that we have not heard a single word from Ken G of Universal?

He is the head spokesman for the HD DVD Promotions Group.

I wonder why Kornblau is now making all the statements and doing the interviews? Maybe because Grey and Katzenberg are studio heads and Ken is not?

Very puzzling.

Well we did hear from Steven Speilberg and Michael Bay:D

You did hear about Micheal Bay's clarification. Right? You also know that most of Spielbergs movies are tied up with HD DVD exclusive studios - right?

Isn't Kornblau the decionmaker at Universal?

Perhaps the HD DVD Promo group has other things up their sleeves. Sometimes the gravity of the news is sufficent that it does not require a press release.....

Honestly, I think it seems that way because we aren't in Q4 yet and haven't seen holiday software -- and more importantly at this stage, hardware -- sales data.

Yes, OK maybe! But I have this feeling that once the holiday season has come and gone we will all be trying to justify why HD didn't sell as well as hoped.

How about GE buys Sony? GE is 2.5X bigger than Sony. Then they pull the plug on the PS3 and BD in one fell swoop and end the format war?

How's THAT for speculation?
:eek:

..because GE isn't stupid. Why buy a company on the verge of financial woes with a poorly selling PS3 moneypit a potentially dead HD media format.

Everyone is going to sit back and laugh as Sony fails ONCE AGAIN. When will they learn?

I have no doubt that Universal won't be going neutral or changing their stance this year, but to base it on another line from Craig Kornblau should hardly be reassuring for fans of the HD DVD format.

I'm pretty sure as of last Friday Paramount was still neutral and had Blades of Glory advertised in Home Media Magazine.

Doesn't mean people won't speculate. Watch:

GE/NBC will look very closely at how sales of Heroes and Battlestar Galactica first seasons on HD DVD sell compared to Lost Season Three on BD. If Lost can outsell both of them, pressure to go neutral will build and Universal will be neutral com February.



See how easy it is?

What... sell 200,000 copies? As has already been confirmed by all HD-DVD supporting studios... current sales and less than a fraction of 1% of overall sales. They mean NOTHING! NOTHING! It's the future -- the future is HD-DVD because of MONEY!

Now if the ratio was 2:1 BD to HDDVD and the sales were 200,000,000 copies... THEN you'd have an agurment... and everyone would be watching BD within a month.

How about GE buys Sony? GE is 2.5X bigger than Sony. Then they pull the plug on the PS3 and BD in one fell swoop and end the format war?

How's THAT for speculation?
:eek:

Fits the description to a "t"

I have no doubt that Universal won't be going neutral or changing their stance this year, but to base it on another line from Craig Kornblau should hardly be reassuring for fans of the HD DVD format.

I'm pretty sure as of last Friday Paramount was still neutral and had Blades of Glory advertised in Home Media Magazine.

Nope . . . . .

Paramount Home Entertainment will launch its exclusive HD DVD program with the release of the blockbuster comedy hit Blades of Glory on August 28th and follow with two of the biggest grossing movies of the year Transformers and Shrek the Third. These three titles alone represent more than $1.5 billion in box office ticket sales worldwide.

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/desperation-move-cash-grab-or-intensified-blu-rayhd-dvd-format-war/

What... sell 200,000 copies? As has already been confirmed by all HD-DVD supporting studios... current sales and less than a fraction of 1% of overall sales. They mean NOTHING! NOTHING! It's the future -- the future is HD-DVD because of MONEY!

Now if the ratio was 2:1 BD to HDDVD and the sales were 200,000,000 copies... THEN you'd have an agurment... and everyone would be watching BD within a month.


three bucks to make the disc, sell for twenty to twenty five bucks each = four million + dollars. that's nothing?

three bucks to make the disc, sell for twenty to twenty five bucks each = four million + dollars. that's nothing?


1) The discs cost more like $1.50 fom the replicator.
2) The studios don't generally sell them at retail; they sell them at wholesale to distributors, who then sell them to retail outlets. Margin is bled off at each step.
3) The studios still have to pay commissions and rep fees, which are generally based on a percentage of sales.

Net-net, the studios' margins are nowhere near as good as you are suggesting.

How about GE buys Sony? GE is 2.5X bigger than Sony. Then they pull the plug on the PS3 and BD in one fell swoop and end the format war?I know you were kidding and all; but trust me; GE ain't buying Sony, or any other big players. They are trying to get rid of slow growth/high competition/low margin business. Universal was attractive due to the limited number of competitors and good fit with NBC. I work for GE (in a completely unrelated business), so I kind of know how GE management thinks. Right now the thinking is: don't take chances; remove risk and uncertainty, add to organic growth. All to try to get the stock price back to it's all time high recorded 6 years ago. I don't think anyone in GE is paying too much attention to what Uni is doing in this "war" as the total sales are so small it's hardly worth discussing.

How about GE buys Sony? GE is 2.5X bigger than Sony. Then they pull the plug on the PS3 and BD in one fell swoop and end the format war?

How's THAT for speculation?
:eek:

Dress that up in a "A friend of mine who works as a paralegal at a major New York law firm heard that . . ." an I bet you can get some buzz going at a pro-HD DVD forum.

Paramount exclusivity for HD DVD is huge news to Universal's upper management.

1) Vindicates Universal decision to be HD DVD exclusive
2) Pressure to go neutral disappears (at least in the short term)

three bucks to make the disc, sell for twenty to twenty five bucks each = four million + dollars. that's nothing?

Now subtract:

- $500,000-$1mi for the initial video master/special features creation
- The upgrade for your manufacturing facility to go BD - $2-4mi
- Hiring and spending more money on Java developers
- Coasters - BD has a MUCH higher failure rate when doing runs of movies
- License fees
- Product returns when some BD owners realize they bought a non-spec BD player and can't use your movies.

Hardly four million dollars.

Paramount exclusivity for HD DVD is huge news to Universal's upper management.

1) Vindicates Universal decision to be HD DVD exclusive
2) Pressure to go neutral disappears (at least in the short term)
If I am Universal, I am looking at all I have done for HD DVD, looking at the Paramount 150mil for 18 months deal, and calculating what I should ask for.

300mil? 500mil? Toshiba set the price with Paramount. Universal has done way more for HD DVD than Paramount is promising. If I were Universal I would not stay exclusive for free.

If I am Universal, I am looking at all I have done for HD DVD, looking at the Paramount 150mil for 18 months deal, and calculating what I should ask for.

300mil? 500mil? Toshiba set the price with Paramount. Universal has done way more for HD DVD than Paramount is promising. If I were Universal I would not stay exclusive for free.

So please tell us what the current deal is between Universal and the HD DVD PG? It would help for us to know if they are really getting screwed.

Oh and a link that shows Toshiba put up the cash and incentives? Do they have pressing plants?

How can this clown claim that Paramount's decision validates there own stance, when 150 million changed hands? Ie it took a 150 million dollar bribe for Paramount to "realise that HD-DVD was better"? Bullsh*t. A bribe is a bribe.

Also funny how the HD-DVD fanboys who were so adamnet that all studios should go neutral, are suddenly overjoyed by one that swings to one side. Hypocrites.

What the Universal dude was really saying is "thank you Microsoft for bribing Paramount, I might be able now to keep my job a little longer and hide my fanboyist hatred of Sony for past bad deals."

The funny thing is it wasnt even a full on cash bribe, who knows how much is promotional considerations.

I think this post on http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=276249&cid=20314675 makes a interesting point:

There is only one reason why someone would pay $150 million to buy the adoption of a particular format: The HD DVD people realized their preferred format was inferior, and could not possibly win in the marketplace in a fair competition on the merits.

In other words, the people who paid believed that the format they don't want to win, Blu-ray, is worth $150 million more than their HD DVD format in true value, so to even the score they had to pay.

That shouts very loudly to me. Someone with $150 million to spend has set the value of Blu-ray as being worth that much more than HD DVD. Thanks for the information. You have voted with your dollars, and shouted to everyone who thinks about it that Blu-ray should win.

From the New York Times article: "The battle over the competing high-definition DVD technologies has sputtered in recent months as Blu-ray discs have emerged as the front-runner. Blu-ray titles are sharply outselling HD offerings..."

Not only the corrupters, but the marketplace also, agree that Blu-ray is better.

I wonder how much it would cost to get Paramount and DreamWorks Animation to adopt 8-track tapes?

I wonder how much it would cost to get Paramount and DreamWorks Animation executives never to take showers or baths? Obviously, to them, everything is for sale, even their technical integrity.

If that kind of thing continues, the word "executive" will become synonymous with the word "sleaze".

The funny thing is it wasnt even a full on cash bribe, who knows how much is promotional considerations.

I think this post on http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=276249&cid=20314675 makes a interesting point:

You better hightlight that point for me cause all I see is some pissed off BD Fanboy writing a post that you decide to show us.

How can this clown claim that Paramount's decision validates there own stance, when 150 million changed hands? Ie it took a 150 million dollar bribe for Paramount to "realise that HD-DVD was better"? Bullsh*t. A bribe is a bribe.

Also funny how the HD-DVD fanboys who were so adamnet that all studios should go neutral, are suddenly overjoyed by one that swings to one side. Hypocrites.

What the Universal dude was really saying is "thank you Microsoft for bribing Paramount, I might be able now to keep my job a little longer and hide my fanboyist hatred of Sony for past bad deals."

First of all, Amir has already publicly stated, on numerous occasions & with his credibility on the line, that Microsoft gave no $ or perks to Paramount regarding this deal. There were financial incentives in the package, that is true, which came from Toshiba apparently.

Secondly, your blatant fanboyism towards Sony is ironic considering it is they that started this notion of "buying" studio support, end-caps, rental chains, etc. They've been offering subsidies to all BD studios from the start, and have thus been bleeding billions from the Blu-Ray format. You should look directly in the mirror if you want to see hypocrisy which seemingly knows no bounds.

As for HD DVD fans being happy with this decision by Paramount -- you're god-d*mned right!!! It's about time the better, more consumer-friendly, and more affordable format fought fire with fire! If we can't have neutrality from all studios and a fair chance for the better format to win on its own merit, then certainly this move is the next best thing.

Keep an eye on the sales figures for players and software this holiday season. I promise you, the tide is turning. Here's a great read for you:

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33489/128/

The funny thing is it wasnt even a full on cash bribe, who knows how much is promotional considerations.

I think this post on http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=276249&cid=20314675 makes a interesting point:
The point it leaves out however is how much Paramount and Warner were paid to go neutral in the first place, and how much Disney was paid to go with Blu-ray only.

The funny thing is it wasnt even a full on cash bribe, who knows how much is promotional considerations.

I think this post on http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=276249&cid=20314675 makes a interesting point:

You quote some fanboy's quote on a blog site, and then you have the audacity to declare it newsworthy?!?

Let's take a look at the comments - "There is only one reason why someone would pay $150 million to buy the adoption of a particular format: The HD DVD people realized their preferred format was inferior, and could not possibly win in the marketplace in a fair competition on the merits."

This quote alone speaks volumes for the person's intelligence level. Apparently, he doesn't realize that it is the "EXACT SAME APPROACH THAT BLU-RAY HAS BEEN DOING THE ENTIRE TIME!" Since Sony needed to "buy" the support of FOX, Disney (who was originally sided with HD DVD in 2004) and Lions Gate, apparently their Blu-Ray product was that much more inferior than HD DVD! If Blu-Ray is the superior format, why on earth did the BDA need to garner exclusive studio support? Why couldn't they let the formats compete on their own merits, as he questions? What a crock!

Try this on for size:

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/33489/128/

Paramount and Dreamworks go HD-DVD: Sony’s curse continues


When you go back and look at the number of media formats Sony has tried to bring to market exclusively, the failures are daunting. They included BetaMax, Memory Stick, Universal Media Disc, Mini-Disk, Professional Disk for Data, HiFD, Music Clip and the Super Audio CD. They had one success with the 3.5” floppy drive and negotiated out of the Multi-Media Disk to create the DVD with Toshiba and Phillips. But were this a sport, they would have one early win, seven losses and a tie. If you were a fan of a team with this record you’d be well advised to switch teams. It is interesting to note, that in all losses, two things were consistently evident, they were more expensive and more restrictive than the other formats. Blu-ray is both more expensive (in terms of players) and more restrictive (you may recall that HP moved to support both formats because of the restrictions) than HD-DVD. Up until now, Blu-ray has enjoyed one clear advantage; they had more studios exclusively on their side. With this announcement, that one advantage is now significantly offset.


One of the things that really makes this interesting it that 300 set HD disk sales records by being on both formats which would suggest Paramount and Dreamworks are foregoing short term gains to solve a strategic problem (that almost never happens).


So why did Paramount and DreamWorks jump into the HD-DVD Camp? All of the studios agree that there needs to be one standard. They also know that the market for players is driven by price and that the two magic numbers are $200 and $100 for players - and if folks don’t have players they don’t buy disks. This means the first player to get below $200 will be the most likely to sell enough to finally justify the switch from standard DVD to HD, HDTVs have been selling very well so the industry knows there is a pent of demand for HD content that is not being met until either Blu-ray or HD-DVD wins. If you were to try to force Blu-ray, given its price/cost curve, you would likely see the ramp to HD content in the 2008/2009 time frame because that’s when the cost of the players will probably reach that critical $200 price point. But HD-DVD is already close and Wal-Mart is expected to have a sub-$200 HD-DVD player in the critical fourth quarter (Amazon already has one under $240). A lot of us thought the PS3 would make a difference, but sales have been lagging for that player and recent studies have indicated many buyers don’t even know the players can play Blu-ray disks. That’s an effective one-two punch that appears to have eliminated the PS3 advantage at least from Paramount’s and Dreamworks’s perspective.


The extra capacity that Blu-ray has doesn’t make any difference if folks won’t buy the players in sufficient volume to make the market and, I think, Paramount and Dreamworks have simply done the math and realize their revenues will be significantly enhanced if buyers see HD-DVD as the safest and least expensive choice during the critical fourth quarter. This doesn’t mean the market will play out this way, there is always risk and Sony is probably not going to go easy, but this appears to be the logic behind their decision.


Sony’s response - Sony has three likely responses: First, do nothing and bet Paramount, Dreamworks, and Universal are wrong. They still have Disney (arguably the most powerful), their own Studio, and Time Warner and others that are in both camps. The market may not repeat history and move on the price, and if Sony can make enough Blu-ray noise they can, as they did for much of this year, simply assure neither wins.


Second, they can respond with their own sup $200 player themselves. That would mean losing in excess of $100 on every sale and, already bleeding from the PS3, they don’t appear to have the resources to make this work and sustain acceptable profitability, but it would prevent a HD-DVD route. I doubt, however, the outcome would be much different than choice number one in the end except they would bleed red ink like a stuck pig.


Third they could abandon Blu-ray, cycle the PS3 early to bring its price in line with the Wii (which is chewing up the market anyway) and gain a price advantage over the Xbox 360 which still has the largest installed base. Problem is you can’t cycle game systems this quickly and hope to hold onto developers and, unless they had already started this, they will take a huge hit in the fourth quarter if word gets out they are on this path with the PS3.


My guess is they will go with a blend of one and two, lowering the prices for the PS3 and players by $50 to $100 and hope that is enough to hold until they can get costs in line for something more competitive. They will then go active on their successes with Movie sales and continue to muddy the water so that buyers do not conclude Blu-ray has lost and hold off buying either until Blu-Ray can be profitably sold at the target price.


Strangely enough, the success of this hinges on Disney, if Disney (who is in heavy competition with Dreamworks and Paramount) concludes as they did that HD-DVD is where the money is, they are likely to switch camps and many may not realize that Disney was actually one of the key architects for the HD-DVD platform and switched sides for political reasons. I’m not convinced the why behind that move is going to survive close scrutiny once Disney’s board starts asking about the Paramount and Dreamworks move and I would love to be in the meeting when that is discussed.


Wrapping up - The consumer electronics market is a fourth quarter market, people will likely buy the player that hits their price point. Whether it is video game systems (and the Wii is an excellent example), or this already too old DVD format battle, folk’s need to realize that it’s not the technology that wins, but it is the price and content. You need both, neither are optional. Blu-ray lost on price and now they are losing content. That is not a good trend. Given Sony’s history here, I can’t figure out why people just don’t leave the room laughing every time Sony proposes a new storage standard. While I still think it is possible we could end up with both as we did with recordable DVD formats, with major studios recasting their votes, I think the odds just shifted back in favor of HD-DVD. One interesting closing thought, since these studios compete with Sony’s studio, I wonder if the fact that this would drain Sony’s resources had anything to do with the decision?

A well thought out rant, Bob Black! Preach on, brother.

Now I'm headed home to play with my brand new XA2.

-Byrd

If I am Universal, I am looking at all I have done for HD DVD, looking at the Paramount 150mil for 18 months deal, and calculating what I should ask for.

300mil? 500mil? Toshiba set the price with Paramount. Universal has done way more for HD DVD than Paramount is promising. If I were Universal I would not stay exclusive for free.I believe I mentioned a while ago that I thought Paramount had been playing it smart because they were releasing enough content to not make people on either side too upset, while also holding things back that they could use as leverage later. Universal has already released a very high percentage of their top stuff that wasn't directed by Spielberg and isn't an upcoming day-and-date release. They've only done that on HD DVD and so could use that as leverage if they did decide that they wanted to play the game of trying to get the most money in incentives, but as far as HD DVD is concerned, a lot of their good stuff is already out there. It's a tough world, but "What will you do for me" tends to be more important than, "What have you done for me."

--Darin

The point it leaves out however is how much Paramount and Warner were paid to go neutral in the first place, and how much Disney was paid to go with Blu-ray only.

Right. But you leave out the fact that Blu-ray has been outselling HD DVD quite readily.

So the whole, "Blu-ray paid this blah blah, back then", which is speculation as it is, isnt the same point as studios being paid to hop on to a losing format at the current time.

That was the past, this is now. Giving that post on slashdot a lot more context than you would like to think.

And everyone raving about $200 or sub players. Who gives a crap? Going exclusive doesnt give you a benefit in that regards, staying neutral does more so.

Then you get the HD DVD sales thanks to the sub $200 players and you get the Blu-ray sales still. Its one of the big flaws of the "michael bay retractment". His first argument was not wanting to exclude people from seeing his movies, by cutting out blu-ray. Fair enough. So how does going exclusive change that? Sure they may get more HD DVD sales, but they still would have gotten those being neutral on those infamous sub $200 players, and they still would have gotten their blu-ray sales.

How can this clown claim that Paramount's decision validates there own stance, when 150 million changed hands? Ie it took a 150 million dollar bribe for Paramount to "realise that HD-DVD was better"? Bullsh*t. A bribe is a bribe.

Also funny how the HD-DVD fanboys who were so adamnet that all studios should go neutral, are suddenly overjoyed by one that swings to one side. Hypocrites.

What the Universal dude was really saying is "thank you Microsoft for bribing Paramount, I might be able now to keep my job a little longer and hide my fanboyist hatred of Sony for past bad deals."

Wow. The hatred and vitriol just keeps coming. This must have hit the BDA Army hard. I actually am starting to feel bad.

You know, perhaps IF (and I emphasize IF) GE or Universal's board were beginning to pressure Ken and Craig into neutrality, they probably told the board to be patient because something was coming.

It's vindication for them sticking to their guns, and that is something that I am sure others may take note of.

And I love how if someone says anything negative about the other side, they are automatically a "fanboy".

Give it a rest already.

I dont own either format, or have a vested interest in either.

The marketplace has been showing blu-ray as more popular. Thus making a switch from neutrality and losing sales obviously was going to require some monetary compensation.

Blu Ray has shown to be less popular, all we are seeing is lots of bored PS3 owners starved for games buying a couple of films.

Blu Ray has shown to be less popular, all we are seeing is lots of bored PS3 owners starved for games buying a couple of films.

Shown to be less popular? On what grounds?

Seems to me the only way to "accurately" measure popularity is sales. Thus knocking the subjective leg you are standing on down.

You better hightlight that point for me cause all I see is some pissed off BD Fanboy writing a post that you decide to show us.

I rubbed my eyes twice trying to see something different...nope...still the same fanboyism.

Shown to be less popular? On what grounds?

Seems to me the only way to "accurately" measure popularity is sales. Thus knocking the subjective leg you are standing on down.

Ya, sales, with PS3 in a deep third place. And what games for PS3 are in high demand...none...hmmmm...maybe that was Sonys masterplan, promise killer games, starve their customers of those games in hopes that they buy Blu-ray movies. Real crack squad they have there.

How can this clown claim that Paramount's decision validates there own stance, when 150 million changed hands? Ie it took a 150 million dollar bribe for Paramount to "realise that HD-DVD was better"? Bullsh*t. A bribe is a bribe.

Also funny how the HD-DVD fanboys who were so adamnet that all studios should go neutral, are suddenly overjoyed by one that swings to one side. Hypocrites.

What the Universal dude was really saying is "thank you Microsoft for bribing Paramount, I might be able now to keep my job a little longer and hide my fanboyist hatred of Sony for past bad deals."


Bravo! . . . Bravo! . . for this wonderful BD Fanboy post! We do miss them - haven't see one in a few days:D

There's a thread discussing bit rates - go join it - you will fit right in!

And I love how if someone says anything negative about the other side, they are automatically a "fanboy".

Give it a rest already.

I dont own either format, or have a vested interest in either.

The marketplace has been showing blu-ray as more popular. Thus making a switch from neutrality and losing sales obviously was going to require some monetary compensation.

Has it? What marketplace? The one that also said if you want Fox and Disney movies you must have Blu-ray?

I'm curious to see how that "marketplace" fairs now with another major studio picking a side.

Has it? What marketplace? The one that also said if you want Fox and Disney movies you must have Blu-ray?

I'm curious to see how that "marketplace" fairs now with another major studio picking a side.

How that has any bearing to point I was making I will never know. Arguing on to a whole different point isnt going to help disprove mine.

And to further my point. Why is it that cross platform titles generally sell better on blu-ray regardless of this who studio does what nonsense. Hrm?

Oh thats right.. the marketplace is dictating that. Just to humor you and not count the 2-1 sales discrepancy, multiformat titles generally sell better on blu-ray. Thus blu-ray is more popular, thus making the switch to the lesser selling format would require monetary incentives, which is what I said at the beginning.

Ya, sales, with PS3 in a deep third place. And what games for PS3 are in high demand...none...hmmmm...maybe that was Sonys masterplan, promise killer games, starve their customers of those games in hopes that they buy Blu-ray movies. Real crack squad they have there.

Another off the argument post. I could pick that post apart, from the fact that a majority of owners polled dont use the blu-ray, or dont know about it, to the fact that I was talking media, with a 2-1 advantage. But ill let that slide.

I know you guys love to beat on Amir, but isn't it funny that the MS guys come here and tell us who they are and the BD insiders hide behind silly names and won't let anyone here know who they are. Why do I feel like the guys who are hiding are more likely to bend the truth?

I know you guys love to beat on Amir, but isn't it funny that the MS guys come here and tell us who they are and the BD insiders hide behind silly names and won't let anyone here know who they are. Why do I feel like the guys who are hiding are more likely to bend the truth?I'm sorry, but I just had to laugh with that coming from "Slim GoodBooty". And to be clear, plenty of people from these forums have been to my house and darinp matches my name as closely as amirm matches his. And yes, I know you mentioned insiders, but it still seems like an interesting observation from somebody using a handle like your's. I'm assuming your name isn't, "Slim GoodBooty". :)

--Darin

I'm sorry, but I just had to laugh with that coming from "Slim GoodBooty". And to be clear, plenty of people from these forums have been to my house and darinp matches my name as closely as amirm matches his. And yes, I know you mentioned insiders, but it still seems like an interesting observation from somebody using a handle like your's. I'm assuming your name isn't, "Slim GoodBooty". :)

--Darin
My name is Slim BTW.

And yes, I know you mentioned insiders, but
If you're going to basically invalidate your whole argument, why bother?

And bob black, that is one hell of a set up and collection.

isnt the same point as studios being paid to hop on to a losing format at the current time.

This is a point that has been made again and again (well prior to the Paramount news): Too much is being made in the forums about which side is "winning" and which is "losing".

The reality is that both formats were selling pretty low numbers and the delta was VERY close (700,000 titles total separated the formats at the end of July). When BD has an extra 1.4 million players (via the PS3) out there and has only sold 700,000 more titles... do you think that ANY studio would consider that "winning"?

Or would they look at that and say "Damn, the PS3 isn't turning into the trojan horse that was promised. Those folks are only buying an average of about 1 title per machine. The HD DVD folks have purchased fewer players, but are buying multiple titles. Maybe -- at this VERY early stage -- it makes sense to support *those* folks. The ones that are actually buying movies and won't be distracted by games. If we throw our weight behind this format -- the one that is cheaper and has finalized specs -- maybe the public will finally feel comfortable buying players. And then they'll buy more movies. Which will cause people to buy more players. And then the money comes rolling in."

It's not an unrealistic train of thought. BD was selling more software... but they were not yet "winning" anything. People in the BD forum were saying that "attach rates" were meaningless... but they aren't. They show which format is more viable. One that has to sell millions of machines to beat a format with thousands of machines doesn't necessarily win, even with higer sales. Not this early in the process.

How that has any bearing to point I was making I will never know. Arguing on to a whole different point isnt going to help disprove mine.

Sire it does. The game as a whole has just changed. We're not talking about another little Weinstein/Lionsgate studio. We're talking about a major studio that has enough pull to draw people to the format they support.


And to further my point. Why is it that cross platform titles generally sell better on blu-ray regardless of this who studio does what nonsense. Hrm?

Because until then, you were forced to buy Blu-ray to get the lionshare of the content. Sorry, but again that has changed.

Oh thats right.. the marketplace is dictating that. Just to humor you and not count the 2-1 sales discrepancy, multiformat titles generally sell better on blu-ray. Thus blu-ray is more popular, thus making the switch to the lesser selling format would require monetary incentives, which is what said at the beginning.

Well, because you said it, it has to be true. Still waiting for that proof. But I guess conjecture is the order of the day. And the marketplace as I said was forced to move a specific direction. That changed.

So what will be the excuse if Paramount's move works to HD DVD's advantage as they want it to and there isn't a 2:1 discrepency?

Michael, look I am not arguing that things are not going to change. You are beating a dead horse here.

My point was that it took money and promotional considerations to get them to switch, has no bearing on HD DVD being the superior format. Thats just absurd to think that it does based on the points you keep throwing out.

At least bboisvert makes a viable point in the argument with the attachment rate. As that really is the only decent reason to make a switch and all that money tossed their way. Its all future projection.

My point still holds that by going from neutral to HD DVD they are cutting themselves off from blu-ray sales. Its not like those blu-ray sales will now immediately be recouped and they will sell double the HD DVD discs. They got paid to support a lesser format that for the time being sells less than the format they are switching to. Instead of just having sales on both sides.

And thats pretty much the same point I linked to in the Slashdot article.

My point still holds that by going from neutral to HD DVD they are cutting themselves off from blu-ray sales. Its not like those blu-ray sales will now immediately be recouped and they will sell double the HD DVD discs. They got paid to support a lesser format that for the time being sells less than the format they are switching to. Instead of just having sales on both sides.

And thats pretty much the same point I linked to in the Slashdot article.

I could just cut and paste your arguement change the word HD to BD, and dump it on the lap of Fox and Disney. The knife simply cuts both way.

I could just cut and paste your arguement change the word HD to BD, and dump it on the lap of Fox and Disney. The knife simply cuts both way.

Except the fact that the knife would be cutting on a totally different loaf of bread. Considering the fact that Fox and disney arent on board with the lesser format.

Now if HD DVD was selling 2-1, and the edge in tech specs and capacity, drm, then yes, you could slice that knife both ways.

Michael, look I am not arguing that things are going to change. You are beating a dead horse here.

My point was that it took money and promotional considerations to get them to switch, has no bearing on HD DVD being the superior format. Thats just absurd to think that it does based on the points you keep throwing out.

But not absurd to continue to throw out an accusation you have no proof or evidence of? With all due respect, I know it's a tough week for the BD crowd, and I know this money thing is all you have to cling to. But at some point one f you needs to put up something other than some unproven story based on unnamed people. Otherwise you're beating the dead horse. Only your horse is still fictional.


At least bboisvert makes a viable point in the argument with the attachment rate. As that really is the only decent reason to make a switch and all that money tossed their way. Its all future projection.

So........you know more than Paramount then? Why aren't you working for them? I find it amazing they've been clear as to their reasons, and those on your side continue to bascially call them all liars.


My point still holds that by going from neutral to HD DVD they are cutting themselves off from blu-ray sales. Its not like those blu-ray sales will now immediately be recouped and they will sell double the HD DVD discs. They got paid to support a lesser format that for the time being sells less than the format they are switching to. Instead of just having sales on both sides.

And thats pretty much the same point I linked to in the Slashdot article.

And you are saying this on the presumption that this move will do nothing to sell HD DVD players and get the ball rolling again on that side of the fence. Considering the size and power of a Paramount/Dreamworks, I find that highly short-sighted.

Paramount themselves said they hoped their decision influenced the consumer base to chose the format they now support. And they listed their reasons. Again, only those who are angry this week want to keep alive this phantom payoff that no one seems to be able to prove actually happened.

Except the fact that the knife would be cutting on a totally different loaf of bread. Considering the fact that Fox and disney arent on board with the lesser format.
Disney is on the board of the "lesser" format.

Catalog titles tend to sell better on HD-DVD than on BR.

Why do you think that is?

The strength of BR disc sales is for the most part built on the PS3 owners. And we know who most of them are - children and young men - gamers. Gamers are not going to buy very many catalog titles. They *will* buy Spiderman 3 and other new release summer movies with mega-explosions. And there's nothing wrong with that.

BUT, if you're a studio with a ton of catalog titles that you want to re-sell on a newer format so you can make money all over again, then hd-dvd is the way to go. Because of who the hd-dvd owners are, AND because the discs are cheaper to produce.

Bravo! . . . Bravo! . . for this wonderful BD Fanboy post! We do miss them - haven't see one in a few days:D

There's a thread discussing bit rates - go join it - you will fit right in!

You of all people calling me a fanboy? Wow, have you seen http://boardreader.com/sp/AVS_Forum_12529.html ?

You are the most active poster on this entire site, and 99% of it is pure fanboyism.

Paramount themselves said they hoped their decision influenced the consumer base to chose the format they now support. And they listed their reasons. Again, only those who are angry this week want to keep alive this phantom payoff that no one seems to be able to prove actually happened.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/technology/21disney.html?ei=5088&en=d4e1f285e2f41437&ex=1345348800&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1187698143-B5wO3L/F+4r1NyAsum87vQ

So because these executives from Viacom are unnamed the whole thing is a fallacy? And the NY Times is the Globe?

What i find really funny is some BD supports are saying they have more money for Fox titles now that they don't need Paramount, yet the same people are begging more studios to join the BDA. I am really confused here. So what do the BD fans really want? More studios or less studios?

jer

Catalog titles tend to sell better on HD-DVD than on BR.

Do you have any evidence?

You of all people calling ma a fanboy? Wow, have you seen http://boardreader.com/sp/AVS_Forum_12529.html ?

You are the most active poster on this entire site, and 99% of it is pure fanboyism.

Whoopee! I'm number 1!

I read both the Universal comment and Paramount's reason for going HD DVD. If you really pay attention, they are saying it is about cost. Now, they will say it is better for the consumer, because it costs less. The reality is it will cost the studios less and that is why they are going to go that route. The studios are looking at their bottom line. They will say it is better for all when in reality, it may not be cheaper for the consumer or necessarily the better format, just cheaper for them to produce. Ten to one bet, they looked at the bottom line, and just throwing out numbers to make a point, but maybe they make 5.00 per disc with HD DVD and 4.00 with Blu Ray. From a business perspective and decision making process it would make sense why they went with HD DVD. THe parts of the articles stating they believe HD DVD has better this or that are not only erroneous, I take it a step further, they are blatantly lying, but they need to defend the decision to go with the cheaper format, and they couldn't justify it on cost alone at least not at a press conference.

My name is Slim BTW.

http://www.ixbt.com/dvd/films/strangelove/strangelove_ridenuke_large.jpg

I read both the Universal comment and Paramount's reason for going HD DVD. If you really pay attention, they are saying it is about cost. Now, they will say it is better for the consumer, because it costs less. The reality is it will cost the studios less and that is why they are going to go that route. The studios are looking at their bottom line. They will say it is better for all when in reality, it may not be cheaper for the consumer or necessarily the better format, just cheaper for them to produce. Ten to one bet, they looked at the bottom line, and just throwing out numbers to make a point, but maybe they make 5.00 per disc with HD DVD and 4.00 with Blu Ray. From a business perspective and decision making process it would make sense why they went with HD DVD. THe parts of the articles stating they believe HD DVD has better this or that is not only erroneous, I take it a step further, they are blatantly lying, but they need to defend the decision to go with the cheaper format, and they couldn't justify it on cost alone at least not at a press conference.

I'll give you the first few sentences of your post but please be more specific on what you believe to be lies stated on the article?

jer

Whoopee! I'm number 1!

Damn it you made me laugh out loud :mad:
Being Number 1 Lone Wolf viral boy isn't something to be proud of!

Thus making a switch from neutrality and losing sales obviously was going to require some monetary compensation.

Just because BC sales were 1.7:1 over HD-DVD, that doesn't mean that PARAMOUNT BD sales were 1.7:1 over PARAMOUNT HD-DVD sales. I don't know why people think that it is. How the heck do we know that Paramounts sales didn't favour HD-DVD in the first place. Just because Sony and Disney sold more BD than Universal sold HD-DVD, doesn't mean jack-squat to Paramount. Sony and Disney's BD sales DO NOT help PARAMOUNT'S bottom line.....

Thus making a switch from neutrality and losing sales obviously was going to require some monetary compensation.

Just because BC sales were 1.7:1 over HD-DVD, that doesn't mean that PARAMOUNT BD sales were 1.7:1 over PARAMOUNT HD-DVD sales. I don't know why people think that it is. How the heck do we know that Paramounts sales didn't favour HD-DVD in the first place. Just because Sony and Disney sold more BD than Universal sold HD-DVD, doesn't mean jack-squat to Paramount. Sony and Disney's BD sales DO NOT help PARAMOUNT'S bottom line.....

Looking at some recent P/DW titles, Norbit, Black Snake Moan, Shooter and Disturbia, BD sales for Paramount ranged from 1.56:1 for Black Snake Moan to 2.04:1 for Norbit and Disturbia. I'm not sure what other titles were P/DW, but it is pretty clear that they were selling more BD copies.

And I love how if someone says anything negative about the other side, they are automatically a "fanboy".

Give it a rest already.

I dont own either format, or have a vested interest in either.

The marketplace has been showing blu-ray as more popular. Thus making a switch from neutrality and losing sales obviously was going to require some monetary compensation.

If the above line in bold is true, how can you validate anything you have commented on thus far. Let alone saying one format is inferior to the other since you have no first hand experience with either product. Wait, if this is the case why the heck do you even care if one company paid another for a service in the first place. Since you are not vested in either format.

If the above line in bold is true, how can you validate anything you have commented on thus far. Let alone saying one format is inferior to the other since you have no first hand experience with either product. Wait, if this is the case why the heck do you even care if one company paid another for a service in the first place. Since you are not vested in either format.

It is true. I have first hand experience with both. Working in the tech industry has its benefits.

And I care because the sooner this "war" is over the sooner one single format will spread, and adoption will pick up, driving down prices on equipment and media. This switching of sides is only delaying that, causing more customer confusion, debating, and believe it or not videophiles; general consumer indifference.

Damn it you made me laugh out loud :mad:
Being Number 1 Lone Wolf viral boy isn't something to be proud of!

Who says? . . . You? What are you number one at here at AVS?

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x66/LeeAStewart/wolf-2.jpg

Catalog titles tend to sell better on HD-DVD than on BR.

Why do you think that is?

The strength of BR disc sales is for the most part built on the PS3 owners. And we know who most of them are - children and young men - gamers. Gamers are not going to buy very many catalog titles. They *will* buy Spiderman 3 and other new release summer movies with mega-explosions. And there's nothing wrong with that.

BUT, if you're a studio with a ton of catalog titles that you want to re-sell on a newer format so you can make money all over again, then hd-dvd is the way to go. Because of who the hd-dvd owners are, AND because the discs are cheaper to produce.

Not to mention there are very few catalogue titles on BD to begin with---one of the two reasons I have not yet bought into the format (the other being waiting until 1.1 is available at a reasonable price). If you want catalogue you don't have a lot of choices among Blu-Ray offerings besides Warner's dual-format releases.

Catalog titles tend to sell better on HD-DVD than on BR.I doubt that. I think they did at one point, but doubt it has been that way for a while. I keep seeing these claims about what titles will sell on Blu-ray compared to HD DVD that seem to be based on the assumption that the Blu-ray crowd is gamers and the HD DVD crowd isn't, or something like that. Yet, if we look at the first weeks sales for new common titles recently, we get 6 titles with ratios all in Blu-ray's favor:

7/24: The Host 2.36:1
7/31: 300 1.91:1
7/31: Shooter 1.71:1
7/31: Blue Planet 2.03:1
8/07: Disturbia 2.04:1
8/07: TMNT 2.17:1
I have yet to see somebody explain why Blue Planet's ratio (an IMAX movie) would be higher than 300 for Blu-ray and still stick to their "gamer crowd" bias.

Catalog titles are harder to get ratios for because they don't tend to make it into the top 10 on HMM, but I don't see evidence that catalog titles have been selling better on HD DVD recently and would put my money on the other way around. That may change with studio support changes, but I'm talking about the way things have been.

--Darin

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/technology/21disney.html?ei=5088&en=d4e1f285e2f41437&ex=1345348800&adxnnl=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1187698143-B5wO3L/F+4r1NyAsum87vQ

So because these executives from Viacom are unnamed the whole thing is a fallacy? And the NY Times is the Globe?

Oh for the love of pete. UNNAMED sources.

And didn't the Times have to fire a writer for making up stories? I believe they did.

Sorry, but a rumored story from unamed people doesn't cut it. Nice try though. Come back to me with some actual proof.