View Full Version : "HD DVD: We're Not at War with Blu-ray"


b.greenway
08-23-07, 02:19 PM
If this has already been posted; nuke it please. Thought it was a interesting read, kind of a different perspective than the red vs. blue nonsense.

HD DVD: We're Not at War with Blu-ray
By Nate Mook, BetaNews
August 20, 2007, 1:17 PM

As I sat in a Washington, D.C. hotel suite earlier this month demoing and discussing the first network-enabled movie titles with the HD DVD group, one remark struck me: HD DVD says it is not at war with Blu-ray and seemingly has little concern over Sony’s format.

It’s hard to miss the ping pong game of rhetoric between the promotion groups pushing HD DVD and Blu-ray. From sales figures to exclusive deals, press releases are churned out almost daily. The so-called “format war” is Betamax and VHS redux - at least that’s what the media wants you to think.

But the real competition is with standard-definition DVDs and convincing the masses of the merits of hi-def. And that’s the crux of why HD DVD just doesn’t care that Blu-ray has more studio deals or the PS3: none of this matters yet until more people start upgrading.

Unfortunately, you won’t hear either side say that publicly, because it’s important to make consumers feel like they are missing out by not becoming early adopters. The advantages aren’t as clear as they were with first-generation DVDs, and a format war helps garner critical media attention.

Now don’t get me wrong; I like a good, heated debate and a little zealotry as much as the next person, but at some point it’s important to understand the realities of the situation. It’s easy to get carried away arguing the value of one side versus the other and miss the forest from the trees: HD sales currently amount to barely 1% of DVD sales.

In fact, the HD DVD group was open to the idea of working jointly with Blu-ray to help convince more consumers to join the high-definition bandwagon, and welcomed the arrival of hybrid HD DVD/Blu-ray players from LG and Samsung.

Each time BetaNews has met with Microsoft’s Kevin Collins, who heads up the company’s Consumer Media Technology Group and has active duties promoting HD DVD (more on Microsoft’s connection to HD DVD later), he is happy to show off -- and demo -- his collection of every single Blu-ray title as well. The same cannot be said about our meetings with the Blu-ray promotional group.

Blu-ray HD DVDA little confidence can explain why: HD DVD believes its format is simply that much better in terms of features (video and audio quality is identical, as both use the same codecs). When placed side-by-side with Blu-ray versions of films, it will be a no-brainer for buyers to choose HD DVD, the group says, enumerating a number of reasons why.

Foremost is compatibility. All new movie titles from Universal and soon Warner will be combination (or twin-format) discs - HD DVD on one side and standard DVD on the other. This means that HD DVD discs will also play on older DVD players, which is crucial for portability. Collins noted that Blu-ray owners will end up buying two discs to watch the movie on their laptop or in the car on a road trip.

Beyond that are features such as picture-in-picture and network capabilities. For example, both the HD DVD and Blu-ray version of “300” include a “blue screen” extra that allows the viewer to see how the complex battle scenes were actually filmed. But only the HD DVD version lets you watch the blue screen version alongside the actual movie, and the comparison is what makes the extra actually interesting to watch.

HD DVD’s networking (Blu-ray is network capable, but it’s not required) opens the door to quite a few possibilities. On 300, one of the first films with such capability, viewers can set bookmarks and upload their favorite scenes to a central location, where other 300 owners can watch them. Ringtone and wallpaper downloads are available as well, which get sent to a cell phone automatically.

However, the network-enabled features are not all gimmicky; HD DVD owners will eventually be able to download new subtitle languages, trailers, and other extended content for films, keeping them fresh well past their sell date. Downloads are kept on the player's built-in storage, another requirement of HD DVD.

The problem, of course, is how you explain those differences to potential buyers. This is where HD DVD has struggled since day one. Sony is nothing short of a marketing powerhouse, while Toshiba and Microsoft -- the two dominate companies behind HD DVD -- don’t have such experience.

This has enabled Sony to secure exclusive movie studio deals (Sony itself has a studio), as well as recent promotional agreements with Blockbuster and Target. But the HD DVD group has surprisingly little concern about the matter, claiming that when the customers are there, both formats will be supported equally.

So when will those Blu-ray-only studios coming running to HD DVD? The answer, if history is any indicator, is the magic $199 price point. DVD didn’t take off until the Chinese manufacturers were able to bring the cost down to that level, and we’ll likely see that happen with HD DVD players this holiday season.

Microsoft’s Collins noted that once HD DVD hits 1 million set top players sold, which could happen before the end of the year, none of the exclusivity will matter, because the studios will go where the money is. Currently, sold players total over 500,000 - largely due to recent price drops and free movie deals.

On Monday, both Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation announced support for HD DVD, citing the lower cost and better features available to customers. This decision apparently stemmed from the studios evaluating both formats for a year, and Collins expects more studios to follow this route.

For at least a little while longer, however, confusion is likely to continue for consumers contemplating a leap to high-definition movies. Trade-offs are still required, like deciding whether “Spider-Man 3” or “Shrek the Third” is more important for your HD collection. And as long as that's the case, the real winner of the format war -- real or imagined -- will be standard DVD.

http://www.betanews.com/article/HD_DVD_Were_Not_at_War_with_Bluray/1187630265

Everdog
08-23-07, 02:29 PM
If this has already been posted; nuke it please. Thought it was a interesting read, kind of a different perspective than the red vs. blue nonsense.



http://www.betanews.com/article/HD_DVD_Were_Not_at_War_with_Bluray/1187630265

Makes a lot of sense, but the BR fans will flame it. I like combos. I will always have a DVD player in the minivan, bedroom and kid's room. Why not buy something that works with both?

Woodshed
08-23-07, 02:33 PM
So HD DVD doesnt care about studio support and now Para is HD DVD exclusive......./shakes head.

I love another quote too. "DVD took off at the $200 price point and HD DVD is likely to do that"

He conveniently leaves out that DVD had no competition, and that the benefits of DVD could be seen on 99% of the TV's that existed.

Consumers are confused about HDM (2 formats) and only 30-35% can even see the difference because they have HDTV's.

Boohoo-ray
08-23-07, 02:34 PM
So HD DVD doesnt care about studio support and now Para is HD DVD exclusive......./shakes head.

I love another quote too. "DVD took off at the $200 price point and HD DVD is likely to do that"

He conveniently leaves out that DVD had no competition, and that the benefits of DVD could be seen on 99% of the TV's that existed.

Consumers are confused about HDM (2 formats) and only 30-35% can even see the difference because they have HDTV's.

Are you some kind of "consumer spokesperson"?

Woodshed
08-23-07, 02:35 PM
Are you some kind of "consumer spokesperson"?

No, but evidently this blogger is......

5thDanMaster
08-23-07, 02:36 PM
If this has already been posted; nuke it please. Thought it was a interesting read, kind of a different perspective than the red vs. blue nonsense.



http://www.betanews.com/article/HD_DVD_Were_Not_at_War_with_Bluray/1187630265

Great find.:)

Brian Shannon
08-23-07, 02:36 PM
So HD DVD doesnt care about studio support and now Para is HD DVD exclusive......./shakes head.

I love another quote too. "DVD took off at the $200 price point and HD DVD is likely to do that"

He conveniently leaves out that DVD had no competition, and that the benefits of DVD could be seen on 99% of the TV's that existed.

Consumers are confused about HDM (2 formats) and only 30-35% can even see the difference because they have HDTV's.

Bravo! :)

BuGsArEtAsTy
08-23-07, 02:37 PM
Meh. This is just spin. Of course they are at war with Blu-ray.

xbdestroya
08-23-07, 02:39 PM
Well, when I read things like this...

the two dominate companies behind HD DVD

I get upset. The word is dominant, not dominate. How has this nonsense translated down now even to article authors? The guy is not a real journo if he can't spell within the confines of the English language.

And what sort of magnanimity is this?

...the HD DVD group was open to the idea of working jointly with Blu-ray to help convince more consumers to join the high-definition bandwagon, and welcomed the arrival of hybrid HD DVD/Blu-ray players from LG and Samsung.

Did we expect a different reaction from HD DVD to the additional CE support?

dobyblue
08-23-07, 02:43 PM
Meh. This is just spin. Of course they are at war with Blu-ray.

Yup.

42Plasmaman
08-23-07, 02:49 PM
Are you some kind of "consumer spokesperson"?
Your screen name and join date says you joined today to poke the Blu-ray bear.
Be nice. :)

khwiggins2
08-23-07, 02:54 PM
Meh. This is just spin. Of course they are at war with Blu-ray.

I don't know about that. If you compare press releases between the two formats, blu-ray has alway been more agressive, attacking HD-DVD. HD-DVD on the other hand, usually just talked themselves up without mentioning the "other" format. :cool:

I think they each just played up to their focus groups.

methos75
08-23-07, 02:54 PM
News Flash!! Were not at war with Iraq:confused: Wait a damn minute!!!:rolleyes:

Tex-amp
08-23-07, 02:58 PM
Foremost is compatibility. All new movie titles from Universal and soon Warner will be combination (or twin-format) discs - HD DVD on one side and standard DVD on the other. This means that HD DVD discs will also play on older DVD players, which is crucial for portability. Collins noted that Blu-ray owners will end up buying two discs to watch the movie on their laptop or in the car on a road trip.

Anyone notice the part I made bold? Does that mean that combo discs will soon be the only disc for Universal and WB outside of the Blu version for WB? Could that be the CEDIA bomb that has been hinted at?

cybereality
08-23-07, 02:59 PM
I love this. BD claims they won the war. HD DVD claims there never was a war. Too funny.

Caurus
08-23-07, 03:02 PM
Wow, I take two informations from this article:

1) Warner is going HD DVD exclusive

2) We will see chinese $199 HD DVD players before christmas

Good news for all customers and HT enthusiasts!

BuGsArEtAsTy
08-23-07, 03:03 PM
I don't know about that. If you compare press releases between the two formats, blu-ray has alway been more agressive, attacking HD-DVD. HD-DVD on the other hand, usually just talked themselves up without mentioning the "other" format. :cool:
I think HD DVD has been less FUD-ish in the war, but it's still a war.

methos75
08-23-07, 03:08 PM
WHOA WHOA hold up here a minute, did he just confirm that universal and Warner are going to only combo releases soon, and fore going both DVD and seperate HD-DVd releases?

"Foremost is compatibility. All new movie titles from Universal and soon Warner will be combination (or twin-format) discs - HD DVD on one side and standard DVD on the other. This means that HD DVD discs will also play on older DVD players, which is crucial for portability. Collins noted that Blu-ray owners will end up buying two discs to watch the movie on their laptop or in the car on a road trip."

thebland
08-23-07, 03:11 PM
Not exactly what you want to be quoted when supposedly coming from a position of strength...

I guess, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em" is what I am reading between the lines here....;)

If Kevin Collins (Micro$oft) is touting combos as a plus for HD DVD, well......have fun with all the returns!

Bob Black
08-23-07, 03:14 PM
I love this. BD claims they won the war. HD DVD claims there never was a war. Too funny.

Well, Fox's Mike Dunn claimed there was no format war too, back in July, 2006, before his studio had even released a single BD disc. “First of all, the format war is really only going on in the press. Come the late fourth quarter, starting in November, Blu-ray is going to be showing huge numbers. The early adopter is going Blu-ray” :D

Still makes me laugh, this arrogant blow-hard! Does he think there's a war yet, with 2 of Hollywood's biggest studios off the BDA?

BuGsArEtAsTy
08-23-07, 03:48 PM
WHOA WHOA hold up here a minute, did he just confirm that universal and Warner are going to only combo releases soon, and fore going both DVD and seperate HD-DVd releases?
He did not. He just said that all new Universal and Warner HD releases are combos.

jkcheng122
08-23-07, 04:39 PM
problems is when you bought the $200 dvd player every studio's releases were available to you. that is not the case now and you're not just missing a few movies. you're missing half of what's available.

Everdog
08-23-07, 04:45 PM
He did not. He just said that all new Universal and Warner HD releases are combos.

Wow. If all Warner, Universal and Paramount SD discs were combos, it would be game over. BR would have to package two discs in every SD box to compete.

Please, I am not saying that is going to happen.

Jiffylush
08-23-07, 04:46 PM
If they aren't in a war then why did they pay Paramount to stop making blu-ray movies?

Would have made a lot more sense to buy additional content for themselves, imho.

thuway
08-23-07, 04:46 PM
Do you wanna know how to make a format REALLY take off?

Release transformers in the flipper version only :).

NickFoley
08-23-07, 04:49 PM
News Flash!! Were not at war with Iraq:confused: Wait a damn minute!!!:rolleyes:

Wrong again. Jet Li and Jason Statham are at War.

vurbano
08-23-07, 04:50 PM
Do you wanna know how to make a format REALLY take off?

Release transformers in the flipper version only :).

and Gladiator

Tex-amp
08-23-07, 04:51 PM
If they aren't in a war then why did they pay Paramount to stop making blu-ray movies?

Would have made a lot more sense to buy additional content for themselves, imho.

Like that would have the same PR value as a neutral studio going exclusive. :rolleyes: And in the same move they did buy more exclusive content for themselves by denying that content to BD.

BuGsArEtAsTy
08-23-07, 04:56 PM
Wow. If all Warner, Universal and Paramount SD discs were combos, it would be game over. BR would have to package two discs in every SD box to compete.

Please, I am not saying that is going to happen.
I highlighted the part you seemed to have missed:
He did not. He just said that all new Universal and Warner HD releases are combos.
ie. All their HD DVD new releases are combos. That does not mean the same SD new releases are combos. If you buy the SD DVD, you get the SD only. If you buy the HD DVD, you get both the HD and SD.

That is exactly what is the situation today. Nothing really new here.

Jiffylush
08-23-07, 05:10 PM
Like that would have the same PR value as a neutral studio going exclusive. :rolleyes: And in the same move they did buy more exclusive content for themselves by denying that content to BD.

Are HD DVD consumers getting any additional movies from the 'investment' in Paramount?

No.

As an HD DVD consumer wouldn't you have preferred more content?

kizzo
08-23-07, 05:11 PM
I highlighted the part you seemed to have missed:

ie. All their HD DVD new releases are combos. That does not mean the same SD new releases are combos. If you buy the SD DVD, you get the SD only. If you buy the HD DVD, you get both the HD and SD.

That is exactly what is the situation today. Nothing really new here.

If they really want this new media to take off. They would only release the combo disc(DVD and HD DVD). And force everyone to buy the combo instead.

Although they probably want do that until prices of combos become much much cheaper.

irfoton
08-23-07, 05:20 PM
$200 in what year dollars?

Tex-amp
08-23-07, 05:38 PM
Are HD DVD consumers getting any additional movies from the 'investment' in Paramount?

No.

As an HD DVD consumer wouldn't you have preferred more content?

HD's goal is to become the top HD format and capture the revenue stream from discs and player for years to come. Just giving HD owners more content does not make the impact on the consumer's opinion of the format battle that a neutral studio going exclusive for HD does. About the only way HD could have done what you are suggesting was to buy Disney or Fox. I suspect Paramount/DW is less expensive and still gives about the same PR value.

Dahlsim
08-23-07, 05:49 PM
If Kevin Collins (Micro$oft) is touting combos as a plus for HD DVD, well......have fun with all the returns!

As long as the DVD side/layer performs just like any other DVD for reliability issues for the hd dvd side/layer should be no different than currently.

Personally I have only ever needed to return 1 hd dvd out of 100+, CoM which was replaced with no incidence afterwards but I have had 2 new combos that didn't play until I 1st wiped them off (dry cloth).

I wonder if there is a tolerance sensitivity issue? Still for vast majority no issues here but they will need to be almost flawless for mass market acceptance.

SquirrelPhister
08-23-07, 10:18 PM
Wow. If all Warner, Universal and Paramount SD discs were combos, it would be game over. BR would have to package two discs in every SD box to compete.

Please, I am not saying that is going to happen.


True, that probably won't happen. But what if they start releasing the HD combo versions first and the regular DVD version a month later?

think about that one

xbdestroya
08-23-07, 10:28 PM
ie. All their HD DVD new releases are combos. That does not mean the same SD new releases are combos. If you buy the SD DVD, you get the SD only. If you buy the HD DVD, you get both the HD and SD.

That is exactly what is the situation today. Nothing really new here.

Exactly; the hype here is a product of fast-and-loose reading. Clearly the "all combos all the time" refers strictly to the HD offerings.

Tarpon
08-23-07, 10:50 PM
Exactly; the hype here is a product of fast-and-loose reading. Clearly the "all combos all the time" refers strictly to the HD offerings.


"All new movie titles from Universal and soon Warner will be combination (or twin-format) discs - HD DVD on one side and standard DVD on the other."

I don't see how this Clearly refers strictly to the HD offerings.

Tom Roper
08-23-07, 11:07 PM
WHOA WHOA hold up here a minute, did he just confirm that universal and Warner are going to only combo releases soon, and fore going both DVD and seperate HD-DVd releases?

"Foremost is compatibility. All new movie titles from Universal and soon Warner will be combination (or twin-format) discs - HD DVD on one side and standard DVD on the other. This means that HD DVD discs will also play on older DVD players, which is crucial for portability. Collins noted that Blu-ray owners will end up buying two discs to watch the movie on their laptop or in the car on a road trip."

If true, Blockbuster Video has just been neutered. To refuse HD DVD is to refuse SD DVD.

kowhite
08-23-07, 11:18 PM
"All new movie titles from Universal and soon Warner will be combination (or twin-format) discs - HD DVD on one side and standard DVD on the other."

I don't see how this Clearly refers strictly to the HD offerings.

It doesn't, but honestly it is the most realistic read of those statements.

Yeliab
08-24-07, 08:27 AM
Thanks to the OP for this interesting read. Refreshing perspective for a change.

ashley76
08-24-07, 08:56 AM
What everyone is missing here is that if no SD-DVD for Universal/Paramount/Dreamworks/etc.. Then that means Target will be forced to carry HD-DVD and so will Blockbuster... Now depending on how far back this information was known... It could have been just "Blu-spin" to pay Target and Blockbuster to make this announcement knowning that just next year this would be pure crap... If they knew back then then it sounds to me like Blu Ray was trying there best to ramp up sales before next year...

BuGsArEtAsTy
08-24-07, 10:02 AM
What everyone is missing here is that if no SD-DVD for Universal/Paramount/Dreamworks/etc.. Then that means Target will be forced to carry HD-DVD and so will Blockbuster... Now depending on how far back this information was known... It could have been just "Blu-spin" to pay Target and Blockbuster to make this announcement knowning that just next year this would be pure crap... If they knew back then then it sounds to me like Blu Ray was trying there best to ramp up sales before next year...
No one is missing anything.

For the bazillionth time, nobody has announced that they are terminating SD-only new releases. The point of the statement was that HD new releases will be SD/HD combos.

DamageMcRamage
08-24-07, 10:39 AM
While I don't think they would release combo's only dvd's, here is an interesting thought. What if they were to release combo only, perhaps just 2 to 3 more dollars in price, and place a sticker on the front. "Why not pick up an HD DVD player to go with your HD TV, and see the good side!" That may sell some players, no? Just a thought.

rdjam
08-24-07, 10:45 AM
Kinda cute that they can say that while giving them a swift kick in the nuts... so to speak.

BuGsArEtAsTy
08-24-07, 10:54 AM
While I don't think they would release combo's only dvd's, here is an interesting thought. What if they were to release combo only, perhaps just 2 to 3 more dollars in price, and place a sticker on the front. "Why not pick up an HD DVD player to go with your HD TV, and see the good side!" That may sell some players, no? Just a thought.
That is more reasonable. However, the studios up to now have not been willing to do that... unfortunately.