every mutlitformat release have sold better on blu-ray by at least 2:1 and matrix bombed

so why should they?

I could think of $150,000,000.oo reasons....

Who cares which side is offerng?!

Also, i think the margin on HD DVD is larger then on BR. This brings the total closer to even in terms of margin. Add some monetary incentive to go HD DVD exclusive and you have a reason.

I think we have two fronts. On one is Sony going to either win or break with the PS3 this holiday season. They're gonna push the boundaries as much as possible to gain lost terrain from Microsoft, and if they can get the SOFTWARE together, they might do it.(Most people complain the PS3 has no games, fewer complain it is too expensive) The more PS3 sold, the more the trojan-horse-BD-strategy sells discs. Also, the more HDTVs are bought by PS3 consumers, the more likely they will try buying BD discs too.

On the other is the stand-alones, that need to keep up the price war with Toshiba. I don't think they can match Toshibas princing, but they certainly need to get closer if they want to keep the advantage they have right now, Cause this holidays season will sell many more HD players than last one(many more HDTVs were placed in the market this year, and people should be starving for HD content)

Depending on what the CEs have to announce in CEDIA, Warner might legitimately go one way, or the other, or even stay neutral and keep selling twice the discs everyone else is selling. If another "joint marketing support" comes to swivel Warner, one way or the other, whatever they decide will have NOTHING to do with any formats qualities, just with their bottom line.

every mutlitformat release have sold better on blu-ray by at least 2:1 and matrix bombed

so why should they?
Define "bombed"? By DVD standards they all have. According to Home Media Research, the totals through July are 2.2 million in Blu-Ray and 1.5 million in HD DVD, or roughly 1.46:1....so??????

Why would they? Because going HD DVD only might mean an end which would fit nicely with $199 players for Xmas?

Note: I don't believe they are, just giving a reason.

Warner can go HD-DVD exclusive and finish this thing off instantly but why should they? There is no need for them to do it right now. The likelihood of Pioneer or Panasonic going neutral is very much on the cards rather than Warner going HD-DVD exclusive which they will do eventually for the knock-out punch. But Pioneer and Panasonic need to wait to clear their existing inventory before making an announcement otherwise nobody will touch their existing Blu-Ray players as everybody waits for their Dual Format players. There's money to be earnt for both manufacturers and they will relish it.

Each Blu-Ray exclusive manufacturer or studio going neutral can be very damaging. Warner has a front row seat for the show. They'll watch the show before they decide to switch everything off.

Warner has been partially exclusive on HD DVD this whole time.

Maybe they will go exclusive for the same reasons they decided not to release Batman Begins and the Matrix on Blu-Ray.

Warner can go HD-DVD exclusive and finish this thing off instantly but why should they? There is no need for them to do it right now. The likelihood of Pioneer or Panasonic going neutral is very much on the cards rather than Warner going HD-DVD exclusive which they will do eventually for the knock-out punch. But Pioneer and Panasonic need to wait to clear their existing inventory before making an announcement otherwise nobody will touch their existing Blu-Ray players as everybody waits for their Dual Format players. There's money to be earnt for both manufacturers and they will relish it.

Each Blu-Ray exclusive manufacturer or studio going neutral can be very damaging. Warner has a front row seat for the show. They'll watch the show before they decide to switch everything off.


I love how Warner could "end this thing instantly", when HD DVD was able to survive just fine with 1 exclusive studion and BR would still have 3.

/shakes head

I love how Warner could "end this thing instantly", when HD DVD was able to survive just fine with 1 exclusive studion and BR would still have 3.

/shakes head

Warner going HD DVD exclusive would not end anything. It would just shift more sales to HD DVD. Both formats are here to stay.

I agree with Woodshed /shakes head:D

Warner has been partially exclusive on HD DVD this whole time.

Maybe they will go exclusive for the same reasons they decided not to release Batman Begins and the Matrix on Blu-Ray.

My thoughts exactly, though I support BD.

Warner going HD DVD exclusive would not end anything. It would just shift more sales to HD DVD. Both formats are here to stay.

I agree with Woodshed /shakes head:D


I just wish I were as smart as you to buy both formats. :(

Alas, I just can't bring myself to do it so I continue to sit on the sidelines...

every mutlitformat release have sold better on blu-ray by at least 2:1 and matrix bombed

so why should they?

One possibility thrown around involves interactivity, specifications and ethernet adapters, the other (as already pointed out) involves cold hard cash. Why really isn't as important as if.

Define "bombed"? .

According to Home Media Magazine, the "Matrix" sets sold about 13,900 units on HD DVD.

I love how Warner could "end this thing instantly", when HD DVD was able to survive just fine with 1 exclusive studion and BR would still have 3.

/shakes head
Perception. One rat jumps ship nobody pays attention.....more rats start jumping ship & it gets noticed.

And one exclusive with two others releasing movies on that format is far different from three who release no movies on BD.

Note: for the umpteenth time I don't see it happening, just say'n :)

According to Home Media Magazine, the "Matrix" sets sold about 13,900 units on HD DVD.

Uh, that was the first week. So 3 x 13,900 the first week (box of 3 movies). Nothing to write home about, but not bad.

every mutlitformat release have sold better on blu-ray by at least 2:1 and matrix bombed

so why should they?

Perhaps because they had one of those moments of clarity?

While I have my doubts this is happening, considering Paramount went HD-DVD exclusive and I would've said the same thing about them last week...who the hell knows.

42plas

The matrix made about as much money as the Pirates movies. Yes, it sold 14k units in the first week, but at $75 or so a pop, that is about the same as 39k at $25 a clip.

So, if the matrix bombed, so did the much vaunted Pirates movies.


Warner going neutral wont end anything.

Havent the HD DVD crowd learned anything? They got arrogant at the beginning, and got burned. The BD Braintrust got equally, if not more arrogant, and look what happened to them.

People have to realize this is going to take awhile.

why would warner go hd dvd exclusive?

Because like Paramount, they wanted to be HDDVD exclusive to start with.

every mutlitformat release have sold better on blu-ray by at least 2:1

You may want to take a close look at the Planet Earth sales stats.

I love how Warner could "end this thing instantly", when HD DVD was able to survive just fine with 1 exclusive studion and BR would still have 3.

/shakes head

Oh it would cause a quick and painful death. HD DVD was ONLY able to survive with 1 exclusive studio because of PRICE. Had there been a BD player on the store shelves at the very same price or less than the HD-DVD players, it would have been over a long long long long time ago.

What consumer would think twice before picking BluRay? BUT.. that isn't what happened. HD-DVD player prices were lower. So they hung on.

If you read the stats over the past 6 months there has been a slow (very very slow) drop in BD player sales and movie sales (percentages) and a very slow gain for HD-DVD. That signifys a trend. Something corporations take very seriouslly.. no matter how small.

If you take the past six months, throw em on a graph, and then chart out off into the future and continue those trendlines. They eventually will intercect and BD will be below HD-DVD. That's what is important. Momentum is falling for BD and gaining for HD-DVD. It's like a snowball rolling down a hill.. Its starting off small and slow (barely noticeable) but its growing with each rotation.

I could think of $150,000,000.oo reasons....

Who cares which side is offerng?!

I think you nailed it. We are 18 months into this format war and studios are clearly not making any money right now and most likely won't be for years to come with regards to HDM as a whole. Money talks.. If they take the money they can sit back for 1-2 years and then reevaluate later on.

I say through them up on Ebay and let the go to the highest bidder :)

Nobody had a clue that Paramount was going exclusive. The possibility of other studios going neutral or exclusive is certainly there. I do believe that will happen before or at CEDIA if it's going to happen at all.

every mutlitformat release have sold better on blu-ray by at least 2:1 and matrix bombed

so why should they?

You need to learn how to properly analyze data. When there are 5:1 more BD players are out there with only 2:1 of the sales ( actually 1.46:1 if you aren't a fanboy ), it tells you that BD doesn't sell very well.

It's okay little guy, your PS3 can still be used to play games... oh wait...

You need to learn how to properly analyze data. When there are 5:1 more BD players are out there with only 2:1 of the sales ( actually 1.46:1 if you aren't a fanboy ), it tells you that BD doesn't sell very well.

It's okay little guy, your PS3 can still be used to play games... oh wait...
I guess you've never heard of rental.... :)

I guess you've never heard of rental.... :)

Yeah, the HDM rental market is just HUGE!!! lol

Yeah, the HDM rental market is just HUGE!!! lol
As hugh as what's available for sale.... :eek:

What consumer would think twice before picking BluRay?

Plenty of consumers would twice about jumping on the BD bandwaggon with their unfinished specs and history of over-promising and under-delivering. HD DVD delivers the same quality plus extra features that actually work.

Nobody had a clue that Paramount was going exclusive. The possibility of other studios going neutral or exclusive is certainly there. I do believe that will happen before or at CEDIA if it's going to happen at all.

I would expect Sony did. Unless Paramount actually started pressing BR discs of Blades of Glory, they must have started suspecting when the ads were saying day and date release and no discs were made.. I'm also guessing that is what Disney had a relatively good release list before the Paramount decision, and Fox came with a response afterwards. Probably planned "sandwich" to minimize the impact.

Plenty of consumers would twice about jumping on the BD bandwaggon with their unfinished specs and history of over-promising and under-delivering. HD DVD delivers the same quality plus extra features that actually work.

Yeah but this is something you or I or AVS posters would know. The avergae consumer would buy now -- cheap price -- and find out later it's junk :)

Luckily we don't have that problem because the finished and complete spec technology is already cheaper - HD-DVD

HDM is here to stay.
It was never about who has the better features or it's better resolution, it's size, or even it's price. It's about convincing people it's the format to go to. Price will drop as it's popularity increases.
When I think of audio quality I always thought audio quality should improve year after year and now with ipods it has nothing to do with audio quality but portability and easy access to content.
Today DVD's are easily rented and can be bought anywhere including grocery stores. I've bought previewed, new release films for my kids at Blockbuster for $5.00
Films are sold as DVD's within three months or less of it being in the theater.
Maybe the people marketing HDM could learn a bit about distribution and a thing or two about the success of ipods instead of shooting darts at each other over who has the better format.
It only reaches deaf ears.

Imagine what it must be like at the PR department at Warner Studios lately?

Paramount has the 'real' sales numbers, and they obviously weren't enough.

Uh, that was the first week. So 3 x 13,900 the first week (box of 3 movies). Nothing to write home about, but not bad.

13,900 the first week for a $60+ box set which contained 2 movies which were largely panned by critics and audiences

Yeah but this is something you or I or AVS posters would know. The avergae consumer would buy now -- cheap price -- and find out later it's junk :)

Luckily we don't have that problem because the finished and complete spec technology is already cheaper - HD-DVD

PS3 people are feeling pretty secure about future compatibility, and they represent the vast majority of BRD players. PS3 sales are also going to be effected less than stand alone player sales because of the format war.

Do you think a 50/50 studio split will help or hurt market acceptance of HDM players? Some of you may get the short term pleasure of seeing the other camp loose access to content for the long term pain of low player sales.

Why Warner might go exclusive....

- Warner has obviously swayed towards HD DVD from the beginning.

- They have very strong ties with the DVD forum (who support HD DVD).

- Forget about the small #'s Warner sees now for HD DVD and Bluray disc sales - when this format war ends, there will be mass adoption. And the sooner that happens, the better for Warner.

every mutlitformat release have sold better on blu-ray by at least 2:1 and matrix bombed

so why should they?
Why did Paramount? Their decision came after analyzing real numbers, not survey numbers. Doesn't that tell you the '2:1' ratio doesn't mean squat?

That 2:1 ratio doesn't tell you how much profit is being made. If they're taking a loss on BD, you're a bad business person if you think you can make it up on volume. :D

I believe Warner makes a royalty on every HD DVD sold. If that's true, they have a vested interest in HD DVD succeeding.

I think they'll stay neutral, but since you asked . . . . They would make that decision based not on market share of today's tiny sales but on what such a decision could mean for the future of the market. They might think that if HD players are ever going to break out, it must be this Christmas; by Christmas 2008, it will be a stale product that might be passed by VOD or something else. The way to break out is with cheap players (assuming the WM rumor is true and players are in the $149 range) and a single dominant format. If Warner, the largest DVD seller, Universal, and Paramount are all exclusive to HD DVD, many people would assume that Blu-ray would either be relegated to niche status or would collapse, particularly if Disney and Fox, which have been stingy to date anyway, suddenly go silent. Thus, HD DVD breaks out, people load up on players at Christmas, and the market for Warner discs grows exponentially. If they thought that would happen, then they presumably would go exclusive.

There's no place like home, there's no place like home. . . . As I say, I think Warner will remain neutral, but this would explain a decision to go exclusive.

Whether or not Warner goes HD DVD exclusive doesn't really matter at this point, IMO. The Paramount announcement just secured the fact that neither of these formats will be much more dominant than the other. Both will share a niche market for the next few years.

But of course, it more studios make the jump to a single format, things should be much different. And as an HD DVD supporter, it's obvious what I'd like to see happen.

every mutlitformat release have sold better on blu-ray by at least 2:1 and matrix bombed

so why should they?

You're looking at this with tunnel vision.

BD is selling 2:1 better, right now, with a small install base. Look at the reasons that Paramount gave. They're the same for Warner. Cheaper hardware, finalized specs, ethernet connectivity...

If (a big IF) Warner goes exclusive, that'll be why. Because they see HD DVD as being the best option for customer adoption today and over the long term. They go exclusive (along with Paramount and Universal), cheap players are available for the holidays, lots of people buy, other (current BD) studios get interested, join up, and the dominoes start falling...

Don't forget that whichever way Warner jumps, New Line will also jump.

every mutlitformat release have sold better on blu-ray by at least 2:1 and matrix bombed

so why should they?

Maybe there's a problem with advanced 1.1 or 2.0 features that they'd like to be working on. Maybe these types of features work well on all standalone HD DVD players right now. Maybe seeing what they couldn't do on 300 on BD gave them some pause. Maybe the lack of mandatory networking means they will never be able to offer interactive internet features that offer opportunities for increased revenue.

Maybe none of this, but until there are working BD 2.0 players out there and evidence that the features work well and that consumers will not be totally disenfranchised with different profiles meaning different feature availability, I would not be surprised to see more defections from Blu-ray.

It's quite possible that Warner made more profits on the HD DVD sales of 300 than on the BD sales, even tho the BD revenue was higher.

This is because the costs of production (including authoring, mastering and testing) on the BD releases is higher. Sony may be subsidizing the cost of producing the BD50s, but, since Sony is currently the ONLY producer of BD50s, they are NO DOUBT limiting the volumes to various studios. And let's not forget that Sony also IS a competing studio - deciding WHO gets the share of their production will be very tricky as sales volumes go higher.

And MOST people can see that HD DVD will have greater player sales for this holiday season - which is another factor to be considered.

Only ONE THING is a guaranteed fact which no one here can disagree with... IF Warner decided to go HD DVD exclusive, then Bluray would be D.E.D. dead - no ifs, buts or maybes, at all..

every mutlitformat release have sold better on blu-ray by at least 2:1 and matrix bombed

so why should they?

I don't think the sales numbers tell the story. If a straight to HD DVD movie like "The Contract" can be profitable after a short time on the market, maybe the costs associated with marketing, manufacturing, and selling a Blu-ray movie (and paying royalties, etc.) are prohibitively more expensive than HD DVD. Unless you have access to their books, how can you say that just because they sold more Blu-ray discs than HD DVD discs, that the Blu-ray were more profitable? Gross sales do NOT equal profit.

every mutlitformat release have sold better on blu-ray by at least 2:1 and matrix bombed

so why should they?

I agree, they would have to go 100% against how the consumers are deciding. However 225 million or more offered might be enough to sway them. The HD-DVD group was desperate since they were losing by a 2:1 margin and this plan was put into effect as a last ditch all or nothing scenario before that ratio got worse for them.

I agree, they would have to go 100% against how the consumers are deciding. However 225 million or more offered might be enough to sway them. The HD-DVD group was desperate since they were losing by a 2:1 margin and this plan was put into effect as a last ditch all or nothing scenario before that ratio got worse for them.

Now it's $225 million or more? Why stop there? Maybe it was a billion and a cut on all future HD DVD hardware and software purchases.

And of course, BDA NEVER cut any deals of any kind with any studio, including Paramount for the last year.

Now it's $225 million or more? Why stop there? Maybe it was a billion and a cut on all future HD DVD hardware and software purchases.

And of course, BDA NEVER cut any deals of any kind with any studio, including Paramount for the last year.


I heard it was 45 bazillion.


See how fun making up numbers is?

I think they'll stay neutral, but since you asked . . . . They would make that decision based not on market share of today's tiny sales but on what such a decision could mean for the future of the market. They might think that if HD players are ever going to break out, it must be this Christmas; by Christmas 2008, it will be a stale product that might be passed by VOD or something else. The way to break out is with cheap players (assuming the WM rumor is true and players are in the $149 range) and a single dominant format. If Warner, the largest DVD seller, Universal, and Paramount are all exclusive to HD DVD, many people would assume that Blu-ray would either be relegated to niche status or would collapse, particularly if Disney and Fox, which have been stingy to date anyway, suddenly go silent. Thus, HD DVD breaks out, people load up on players at Christmas, and the market for Warner discs grows exponentially. If they thought that would happen, then they presumably would go exclusive.

There's no place like home, there's no place like home. . . . As I say, I think Warner will remain neutral, but this would explain a decision to go exclusive.


If this senario is true then HD DVD will rule the day. If WM gets on HD DVD board I think that is more than enough to push it over the edge. Even in the crappy little town (40k people) I live in there are HD DVD/BR titles (limited) if there were a $150 player it would sell like hotcakes and J6P would be in the HD DVD camp. Game over.

But like he said theres no place like home ;)

Whether or not Warner goes HD DVD exclusive doesn't really matter at this point, IMO. The Paramount announcement just secured the fact that neither of these formats will be much more dominant than the other. Both will share a niche market for the next few years.



I know you said you were an HD DVD supporter, but the above sounds like Bd group think.
Of all the studios so far producing HDMs, Warner has been at the forefront of price, selection, quality , and interactivity.
Fox may have some great movies in its catalog, but they have had a negliable impact so far on HD on disc-If for some amazing reason, Blu-ray f#cks up and loses Warner, the writing is going to be on the wall at that point.
Harry Potter, Batman, Matrix, Transformers, Star Trek, BSG, Heroes would all become exclusive + AVAILABLE properties of HD DVD and those, coupled with $200 players when the other side still only has $400+ players and $40 msrp + bare bones Fox catalog titles, along with two of the least liked summer sequel blockbusters...

I haven't been championing an end to the format war the way the dedicated Bd contingent has- but this would almost certainly set that into motion- and by this time next year, we would be seeing Disney gear up to start releasing HD DVDs for the 2008 Christmas season. Fox might take longer, but they are as close to irrelevant anyway given their pricing, features, and selection so far. They will not be stepping in to fill the HUGE void should Warner vacate.

And MOST people can see that HD DVD will have greater player sales for this holiday season - which is another factor to be considered.

Only ONE THING is a guaranteed fact which no one here can disagree with... IF Warner decided to go HD DVD exclusive, then Bluray would be D.E.D. dead - no ifs, buts or maybes, at all..

1. The price may persuade some people who were on the edge of purchasing but no matter what, there will still be TWO split sections for HiDef DVD's.
That is what deter's MOST people from making a purchase because to the common consumer, $199 is still a lot of money to put on a 50/50 bet that your player will become the standard. Most people who aren't AV enthusists don't want to gamble away $199.

2. The Warner thing will mean a lot to people on this forum but most still won't notice, just like the Paramount announcement.
I work in the HiTech industry in engineering near M$ and I have yet to hear anyone in the lunchroom, engineering floor or the water cooler talking about the Paramount announcement. I have some engineers who are real geeky with PC networks of TV's and they haven't mentioned nothing when we are in the lab shooting the breeze.


Until you get rid of the two HiDef DVD section and display a single format, I think we are still a long ways off from a single format.

I believe there is a possibility for Warner to go exclusive HD DVD if the rumors of studios like Paramount, Dreamworks and Warner only producing flippers for new movies (HD DVD and DVD) and not producing SDDVDs for the new movies.
I know this is a rumor but it makes a lot of sense. People will buy millions of these and get a free HD DVD movie. The key to this is price. If they can keep the combo price close to the SDDVD price I think they will be successfull.

People will allready have the HD DVD version and when they see $199 players they would be more inclined to purchase the player.

When the people see the quality of these then they would buy catalog titles that are HD DVD only, a good way to sell old catalog titles.

This would also force Blockbuster and other BD exclusive retailers to carry HD DVD.
No more need to extra shelfspace.

Maybe Paramount got money to offset the cost? I am just speculating but I think it would be a brilliant move.

JMHO

I believe there is a possibility for Warner to go exclusive HD DVD if the rumors of studios like Paramount, Dreamworks and Warner only producing flippers for new movies (HD DVD and DVD) and not producing SDDVDs for the new movies.


Didn't Warner just say they were going to ditch the flippers?

I think Warner is ditching TotalHD, Blu-Ray on 1 side and HD DVD on the other.

why would warner go hd dvd exclusive?

So Bill Hunt can crap his pants!

LOL!

I thought Warner's combo announcement was that they would release non combo versions of movies as well as combos?

I thought the sales breakdown for 300 was good for both formats... Bluray sold a lot of copies and continued the 2-1 sales trend, but hd-dvd sold nearly 80k its first week. That shows some tremendous strength, and that number probably would've been 100k if it weren't a combo disc. If Warner made tons more $ off the HD-DVD version despite 1/2 the sales, that would be a good reason to drop bluray. But that's a big "if".

I believe there is a possibility for Warner to go exclusive HD DVD if the rumors of studios like Paramount, Dreamworks and Warner only producing flippers for new movies (HD DVD and DVD) and not producing SDDVDs for the new movies.
Please people, stop repeating this misinformation.

All the guy said is that for new HD releases, Warner will release combos. Nobody in the know has ever suggested that Warner (or Universal) will stop releasing SD-only discs for new releases.

It's quite possible that Warner made more profits on the HD DVD sales of 300 than on the BD sales, even tho the BD revenue was higher.
Possible, but quite unlikely, considering that 300 had pretty significant sales (at least by hi-def standards).

Only ONE THING is a guaranteed fact which no one here can disagree with... IF Warner decided to go HD DVD exclusive, then Bluray would be D.E.D. dead - no ifs, buts or maybes, at all..
One could just as easily say IF Warner decided to go Blu-ray exclusive, then HD DVD would be D.E.D. dead - no ifs, buts or maybes, at all.. It goes both ways my friend.

Whether or not one agrees with that sentiment is a different question, but so far we have no real indication that Warner is going exclusive at all. If anything, some real insiders seem to suggest that Warner is more likely stay neutral.

I agree, they would have to go 100% against how the consumers are deciding. However 225 million or more offered might be enough to sway them. The HD-DVD group was desperate since they were losing by a 2:1 margin and this plan was put into effect as a last ditch all or nothing scenario before that ratio got worse for them.
You can't really be repeating that 225 million nonsense, can you? You know, that 225 million number that prompted an MS employee to flat out call the poster a complete liar?

I believe Warner makes a royalty on every HD DVD sold. If that's true, they have a vested interest in HD DVD succeeding.

Bingo. 37 posts into the thread and then ignored thus far. This is a HUUGE reason to go exclusive. They have a vested interest in having the format become the de facto standard.

It makes 2:1 (hell, even 10:1) software sales at this point totally irrelevant.

Bingo. 37 posts into the thread and then ignored thus far. This is a HUUGE reason to go exclusive. They have a vested interest in having the format become the de facto standard.

It makes 2:1 (hell, even 10:1) software sales at this point totally irrelevant.Well, if they are making a signifigant amount of money/sales off both, why would any business take less money from the consumer to be a battlebot to a single format ?
It's not their format war and they are making money nevertheless off both.

As hugh as what's available for sale.... :eek:

Thank you captain obvious...

He'll be here all night folks, try the steak and don't forget to tip your server

Where the HECK are you getting these numbers?!?!?!?

I thought Warner's combo announcement was that they would release non combo versions of movies as well as combos?

I thought the sales breakdown for 300 was good for both formats... Bluray sold a lot of copies and continued the 2-1 sales trend, but hd-dvd sold nearly 80k its first week. That shows some tremendous strength, and that number probably would've been 100k if it weren't a combo disc. If Warner made tons more $ off the HD-DVD version despite 1/2 the sales, that would be a good reason to drop bluray. But that's a big "if".

They didn't need to make "tons more $ off the HD DVD version." They just needed to make as much $. If you need to sell twice as many BRD as HD DVD to make the same money, that's not a good sign for profits.;)

I believe Warner will sell more HD media NEXT christmas (08) if they go HD DVD only now than they will if they stay neutral.

Please people, stop repeating this misinformation.

All the guy said is that for new HD releases, Warner will release combos. Nobody in the know has ever suggested that Warner (or Universal) will stop releasing SD-only discs for new releases.


Gonna have to chime in here, here's the quote from the article, emphasis mine:

All new movie titles from Universal and soon Warner will be combination (or twin-format) discs - HD DVD on one side and standard DVD on the other.

That definitely doesn't indicate HD only will be combos, but that all new releases will be combo DVD/HD-DVD.

^

We simply don't know yet. It could just be lazy wording on the part of the article. It's vague enough so that it can be read either way. Personally, I read it to say "All new [HD] movie titles"... but I can see where it can just as easily mean what you're saying.

Gonna have to chime in here, here's the quote from the article, emphasis mine:



That definitely doesn't indicate HD only will be combos, but that all new releases will be combo DVD/HD-DVD.
They were specifically talking about this in the context of HD releases.

Basically everyone who is assuming they are also talking about SD-only discs is going to be very disappointed. Any such turn of events wouldn't be a simple mention in passing by some MS guy or whatever. It would be a major announcement by the studios.

Until we get that announcement from the studios, the KISS principle tells us it is just not true.

Gonna have to chime in here, here's the quote from the article, emphasis mine:



That definitely doesn't indicate HD only will be combos, but that all new releases will be combo DVD/HD-DVD.
That wouldn't be too wise of an idea unless they drop the prices down to $19.99 MAP and have them on sale on the first week of day and date releases.

Why would an SD DVD owner pay $35 for a combo if they only want the SD version and could careless about HiDef ?

That's $15 extra for something they currently don't need and may not need in the future.

I wish there wasn't so much misinformation floating around. Warner is heavy into the DVD Forum, they're on the BDA Board, they have IP/Royalty stake in HD-DVD, Oh, they have royalty stake in BD too, they fired the guy who supported HD-DVD, no he supported neutrality, no he supported BD, no, he wasn't even fired, he just left. What's true, what's not? Yeesh.

That wouldn't be too wise of an idea unless they drop the prices down to $19.99 MAP and have them on sale on the first week of day and date releases.

Why would an SD DVD owner pay $35 for a combo if they only want the SD version and could careless about HiDef ?

That's $15 extra for something they currently don't need and may not need in the future.

Assuming that they have the ability to create/press the millions of combos that would be required, getting the retail price down to standard DVD levels won't be a problem. You do that through volume and your existing distribution deals with retailers.

Most combos retail for $35-40. Most new release DVDs retail for $25-30. (Obviously it gets lower from there based on individual retailer discounts.) They just need to knock $10 off the retail price of the combos. If they're going to sell millions by doing that, I'm sure they can make it work.

That wouldn't be too wise of an idea unless they drop the prices down to $19.99 MAP and have them on sale on the first week of day and date releases.

Why would an SD DVD owner pay $35 for a combo if they only want the SD version and could careless about HiDef ?

That's $15 extra for something they currently don't need and may not need in the future.

If they ramped up production of combo discs to meet SD-DVD demand, they would be able to lower the prices due to mass production. Remember, most people haven't been paying retail for their DVDs.

From looking at Amazon's MSRP for 300:

300 widescreen - 28.98
300 two-disc widescreen - 34.98
300 blu-ray - 34.99
300 hd-dvd - 39.99

So currently, the combo of 300 is $5.01 more and it has IME, therfore more value to the extras crowd that like the special edition discs. If you start making nothing but combos, I could easily see them brining down the price.

As for retail price, most places always offer them cheaper like Amazon:

300 widescreen - 15.99
300 two-disc widescreen - 22.99
300 blu-ray - 23.95
300 hd-dvd - 27.95

If they ramped up production of combo discs to meet SD-DVD demand, they would be able to lower the prices due to mass production. Remember, most people haven't been paying retail for their DVDs.

From looking at Amazon's MSRP for 300:

300 widescreen - 28.98
300 two-disc widescreen - 34.98
300 blu-ray - 34.99
300 hd-dvd - 39.99

So currently, the combo of 300 is $5.01 more and it has IME, therfore more value to the extras crowd that like the special edition discs. If you start making nothing but combos, I could easily see them brining down the price.

As for retail price, most places always offer them cheaper like Amazon:

300 widescreen - 15.99
300 two-disc widescreen - 22.99
300 blu-ray - 23.95
300 hd-dvd - 27.95

Come on.
I can walk in to Besy Buy, Fry's or Circuit City today and get these prices:

300 on BD = $29.99
300 on HD DVD = $34.99

I can walk in Target and get these prices:
300 on BD = $24.99
300 on HD DVD = $34.99

And you know that a new SD DVD release goes for about $15.99 for the first week of day and date releases and goes up to $19.99 afterwards.

The price difference is more than a mere $5 between the HD DVD and SD DVD versions when it comes to 300(combo discs).

Just go look at the prices on all the combo HD DVD discs and the majorty, if not all retail for $34.99 even for old catalog releases.

Until you get rid of the two HiDef DVD section and display a single format, I think we are still a long ways off from a single format.

No. I think the publics perception will change. It will become -- there's the HD-DVD section.. .those are movies for my home theater -- there's the BluRay section... those only work on PS3s

Similar to the PSP movies.

I believe Warner will sell more HD media NEXT christmas (08) if they go HD DVD only now than they will if they stay neutral.

the logic of hd dvd fanboys keep breaking my brain

so less people that can buy their movies would result in more sales? :confused:

No. I think the publics perception will change. It will become -- there's the HD-DVD section.. .those are movies for my home theater -- there's the BluRay section... those only work on PS3s

Similar to the PSP movies.
Huh ?
If you walk in to any major CE store, they have the Blu-ray player/display with the Blu-ray players and usually have a handful of BD DVD's on display next to it so you can see what you can get.

PS3 is in the gaming section. :rolleyes:

the logic of hd dvd fanboys keep breaking my brain

so less people that can buy their movies would result in more sales? :confused:

Your making the unlikely assumption that this is not going to cause some to purchase an HD-DVD player. For ~ $200 that would be pretty silly. How much did you spend on your HT and movies. In most cases, $200 is peanuts by comparison.

Warner stays neutral - anything more to discuss about WB?

You need to learn how to properly analyze data. When there are 5:1 more BD players out there with only 2:1 of the sales ( actually 1.46:1 if you aren't a fanboy ), it tells you that BD doesn't sell very well.

It's okay little guy, your PS3 can still be used to play games... oh wait...

You got that right. For some reason many refuse to see this fact. But I bet Paramount didn't.

every mutlitformat release have sold better on blu-ray by at least 2:1 and matrix bombed

so why should they?

Because Sony owns a competing studio. Every BD sold puts a nickel in the pocket of a direct competitor. I still don't understand how any studio can justify puting their future in the hands of a direct competitor. Unless they are playing Sony like Parmount & Dreamworks did. "yeah yeah sure we support your format - right up until it really matters"

Originally Posted by user4avsforum
Because Sony owns a competing studio. Every BD sold puts a nickel in the pocket of a direct competitor.

Newsflash... WB is paid for every DVD sold, they were able to get a cut on the actul DVD Logo used on most DVD's sold.

That happens to be why Disney's disc have a "Disney DVD" logo. Therefore WB does not get the same cut of select Disney DVD's. That was part of the deal that was given to Disney back in late 1997.

fitprod

I think it's beneficial for both parties if Warner stays neutral, it would be easier to track sales of dual format titles and determine growth. If Warner went HD or BD exclusive, we'd lose that.

Newsflash... WB is paid for every DVD sold, they were able to get a cut on the actul DVD Logo used on most DVD's sold.

That happens to be why Disney's disc have a "Disney DVD" logo. Therefore WB does not get the same cut of select Disney DVD's. That was part of the deal that was given to Disney back in late 1997.

fitprod

I am confused. Does this mean that Sony does not make any money off of Blu-ray licensing? So if Warner encodes, manufactures, and sells a Blu-ray movie Sony gets nothin?

Also, i think the margin on HD DVD is larger then on BR. This brings the total closer to even in terms of margin. Add some monetary incentive to go HD DVD exclusive and you have a reason.Of course it is, with the extra $5 -$6 for a forced combo package.

Warner can go HD-DVD exclusive and finish this thing off instantly but why should they? There is no need for them to do it right now. The likelihood of Pioneer or Panasonic going neutral is very much on the cards rather than Warner going HD-DVD exclusive which they will do eventually for the knock-out punch. But Pioneer and Panasonic need to wait to clear their existing inventory before making an announcement otherwise nobody will touch their existing Blu-Ray players as everybody waits for their Dual Format players. There's money to be earnt for both manufacturers and they will relish it.

Each Blu-Ray exclusive manufacturer or studio going neutral can be very damaging. Warner has a front row seat for the show. They'll watch the show before they decide to switch everything off.Another miss-conception! At best, with Warner going HD DVD, you have a stalemate. It won't be over. Get used to seeing Blu Ray around until the next format takes over.

Warner has been partially exclusive on HD DVD this whole time.

Maybe they will go exclusive for the same reasons they decided not to release Batman Begins and the Matrix on Blu-Ray.
They probably had a contract for some exclusive titles, but that exclusivity is coming to an end. It has been almost a year since then and it appears those exclusive titles will be available in Blu Ray soon. Warner probably seen and read what happened to Paramount and won't want to look like the $150 million dollar whore that Paramount looked like.

It's quite possible that Warner made more profits on the HD DVD sales of 300 than on the BD sales, even tho the BD revenue was higher.

This is because the costs of production (including authoring, mastering and testing) on the BD releases is higher. Sony may be subsidizing the cost of producing the BD50s, but, since Sony is currently the ONLY producer of BD50s, they are NO DOUBT limiting the volumes to various studios. And let's not forget that Sony also IS a competing studio - deciding WHO gets the share of their production will be very tricky as sales volumes go higher.

And MOST people can see that HD DVD will have greater player sales for this holiday season - which is another factor to be considered.

Only ONE THING is a guaranteed fact which no one here can disagree with... IF Warner decided to go HD DVD exclusive, then Bluray would be D.E.D. dead - no ifs, buts or maybes, at all..Blu Ray is here to stay, no if, ands, or buts. More sales? I guess all of those PS3's don't count to you, with the blinders on. Maybe you should also look at the high failure rate of the XBOX360 and how much that is going to cost micro$oft to repair or replace. Warner can do as they please, just like Universal. If Paramount or Warner can be bought, so can Universal. I guess you think paying extra for an SD Disk in the HD DVD Combo is a good business arrangement? It's a waste to most, and BD has it right by not including it in their marketing. Enjoy your HD DUD product, it might make it until the end of Paramount's non competition agreement in 18 months. I'm sure Paramount will find a way to leak out more of their current Blu Ray stock, over time. I wonder who else wants to make HD DUD players, than Toshiba, since they are losing money subsidizing their platform. If it was such a worthy platform, where are the other hardware manufactures lining up to make one? So, if Sony is subsidizing the manufactuing of BD50 disks, then what does it say about Toshiba losing big making stand-alone players? Argue that with the donkey in the next stall!

Originally Posted by user4avsforum
I am confused. Does this mean that Sony does not make any money off of Blu-ray licensing? So if Warner encodes, manufactures, and sells a Blu-ray movie Sony gets nothin?

No, I didn't say that, and it wasn't the point. The point is just as Sony is/would be paid for Blu-ray licensing, Warner has the same deal currently in place for DVD.

fitprod

Warner's one of the companies that's really done better on Blu-Ray than HD-DVD.

If Batman Begins was out on Blu-Ray it would have sold a lot also, and IMO The Matrix Trilogy would've done better on Blu-Ray. Sony does need to get that BR 1.1 nonsense figured out.

every mutlitformat release have sold better on blu-ray by at least 2:1 and matrix bombed

so why should they?

Maybe because they have managers that understand the basic principles of business.

A) Short-run
It is certainly nice and important to have high sales numers, but at the end of the day it is the profit that counts.

What would you prefer, to sell 200.000 blurays with a profit of $1 each or 100.000 HD DVD with a profit of $3 each? You do the math.

B) Long-run
Once Warner goes HD DVD exclusive bluray will disappear. The 200.000 people who bought the bluray disc will buy an HD DVD player for $199 and will buy 200.000 HD DVD, so instead of 200.000 low profit bluray and 100.000 high profit HD DVD sales, Warner will get 300.000 high profit HD DVD sales.

It is the profit that matters.

Blu Ray is here to stay, no if, ands, or buts. More sales? I guess all of those PS3's don't count to you, with the blinders on. Maybe you should also look at the high failure rate of the XBOX360 and how much that is going to cost micro$oft to repair or replace. Warner can do as they please, just like Universal. If Paramount or Warner can be bought, so can Universal. I guess you think paying extra for an SD Disk in the HD DVD Combo is a good business arrangement? It's a waste to most, and BD has it right by not including it in their marketing. Enjoy your HD DUD product, it might make it until the end of Paramount's non competition agreement in 18 months. I'm sure Paramount will find a way to leak out more of their current Blu Ray stock, over time. I wonder who else wants to make HD DUD players, than Toshiba, since they are losing money subsidizing their platform. If it was such a worthy platform, where are the other hardware manufactures lining up to make one? So, if Sony is subsidizing the manufactuing of BD50 disks, then what does it say about Toshiba losing big making stand-alone players? Argue that with the donkey in the next stall!

They CANT include it, It's dvd and blu ray isn't part of the dvd forum-steering commity. That is why blurry will NEVER have a combo

No, I didn't say that, and it wasn't the point. The point is just as Sony is/would be paid for Blu-ray licensing, Warner has the same deal currently in place for DVD.

fitprod

OK then I stand by my point. Warner should go HD DVD exclusive because Sony owns a competing studio. Every BD sold puts a nickel in the pocket of a competitive studio, that studio can spend that nickel creating a new movie that competes with Warner. If you are an independant studio supporting a competitor (Sony) is just plain stupid.

The bottom line is that right now, due to the number of PS3's out there (presumably), BD's are selling 2:1 or more over HD DVD. However, there are rumors that BD's costs' are higher. I certainly don't know at what point the higher sales offset the rumored higher margins. And Warner I am sure is looking down the road, to see how they predict those margins will improve (on BD), with greater maturity of BD50 pressing. Meantime they are going the cheapest route possible with BD; porting over the HD DVD encode, which many times will fit on a BD25, thus lowering manufacturing expense. Paramount had been doing dual encodes.

As for certain movies being exclusive, I don't know if that's because of any contractural requirement or Warner is just waiting for BD profile 1.1 players to be available, to allow them to use interactivity as they do on HD DVD. That couldn't be ported over, but the same content could be coded in BD-J or BDMV, or whatver to allow PiP, etc. Assuming Warner stays with their present course I would expect those movies to start showing up this holiday season.

They CANT include it, It's dvd and blu ray isn't part of the dvd forum-steering commity. That is why blurry will NEVER have a comboThat's a good thing, since we don't want to pay for an inferior product. No choice with HD DVD, choice with Blu Ray.

every mutlitformat release have sold better on blu-ray by at least 2:1 and matrix bombed

so why should they?

DVD + HD DVD makes more business sense than DVD + BD. As long as you can't take out DVD from the equation, HD DVD makes more business sense due to far better compatibility with DVD.

BD is battling DVD as much as it is battling HD DVD.

I believe the Matrix box set generated about the same $ value as PoTC 1 and 2 combined due to higher MSRP and I would bet the overall profits were higher for Matrix. Also, since PoTC was being billed as a decider of the format war (The Matrix more a spoiler), I'd say PoTC failed totally in it's objective and so was a much bigger disappointment for the BDA....

Look closely at Warners actions - Batman released to counter PS3, and Matrix released to counter PoTC 1 and 2. Last year Harry Potter released for European launch of HD DVD....no catching up of BD so far. They could have hurt HD DVD big time by releasing Batman and others at the time of CR if they so chose.

Unlike Paramount who played around with AVC and bit rates etc. Warner is creating disks strictly with HD DVD specs and then porting to BD. So, only HD DVD versions have HDi and other advanced features. When HD DVD gets TruHD, some BD get PCM...

I guess the only choice for Sony will be to sign up for TotalHD or Warner will walk :)

Maybe because they have managers that understand the basic principles of business.

A) Short-run
It is certainly nice and important to have high sales numers, but at the end of the day it is the profit that counts.

What would you prefer, to sell 200.000 blurays with a profit of $1 each or 100.000 HD DVD with a profit of $3 each? You do the math.

B) Long-run
Once Warner goes HD DVD exclusive bluray will disappear. The 200.000 people who bought the bluray disc will buy an HD DVD player for $199 and will buy 200.000 HD DVD, so instead of 200.000 low profit bluray and 100.000 high profit HD DVD sales, Warner will get 300.000 high profit HD DVD sales.

It is the profit that matters.

Nice to see that someone else thinks the same way I do :)

It's about the $ and not sales ratio. The sales ratio is for the media consumption. Notice Neilson sales ratio is free....you gotta pay for actual units sold. Wonder why? Because the sales ratio is useless from a business perspective. It's a marketing gimmick for now...not only that, but we are seeing sales ratio of 'First Alert Data' or whatever that is supposed to mean. Basically it means, 'we are putting out this data, but because it is 'First Alert' we are not responsible for it being accurate and the 'actual' data may be different since 'First Alert' is some subset of folks who report to us'. Yet, that is the gospel on AVS. :eek:

DVD + HD DVD makes more business sense than DVD + BD. As long as you can't take out DVD from the equation, HD DVD makes more business sense due to far better compatibility with DVD.

BD is battling DVD as much as it is battling HD DVD.

I believe the Matrix box set generated about the same $ value as PoTC 1 and 2 combined due to higher MSRP and I would bet the overall profits were higher for Matrix. Also, since PoTC was being billed as a decider of the format war (The Matrix more a spoiler), I'd say PoTC failed totally in it's objective and so was a much bigger disappointment for the BDA....

Look closely at Warners actions - Batman released to counter PS3, and Matrix released to counter PoTC 1 and 2. Last year Harry Potter released for European launch of HD DVD....no catching up of BD so far. They could have hurt HD DVD big time by releasing Batman and others at the time of CR if they so chose.

Unlike Paramount who played around with AVC and bit rates etc. Warner is creating disks strictly with HD DVD specs and then porting to BD. So, only HD DVD versions have HDi and other advanced features. When HD DVD gets TruHD, some BD get PCM...

I guess the only choice for Sony will be to sign up for TotalHD or Warner will walk :)

Very interesting assessment, especially coming from you. Thanks.

Huh ?
If you walk in to any major CE store, they have the Blu-ray player/display with the Blu-ray players and usually have a handful of BD DVD's on display next to it so you can see what you can get.

PS3 is in the gaming section. :rolleyes:

If you read my post it was about HD video in the future. When all the hardware manufactures stop making BD players and concentrate on HDDVD.

THEN.. the BD movie section will be for the PS3 owners. Just like MiniDiscs.

That's a good thing, since we don't want to pay for an inferior product. No choice with HD DVD, choice with Blu Ray.

The combo format is the trump card. Transformers and Shrek 3 on combo exclusive and your BD just died. Meeeeeeeeeeellions of HD-DVD movies in homes within weeks.

DVD + HD DVD makes more business sense than DVD + BD. As long as you can't take out DVD from the equation, HD DVD makes more business sense due to far better compatibility with DVD.

BD is battling DVD as much as it is battling HD DVD.

I believe the Matrix box set generated about the same $ value as PoTC 1 and 2 combined due to higher MSRP and I would bet the overall profits were higher for Matrix. Also, since PoTC was being billed as a decider of the format war (The Matrix more a spoiler), I'd say PoTC failed totally in it's objective and so was a much bigger disappointment for the BDA....

Look closely at Warners actions - Batman released to counter PS3, and Matrix released to counter PoTC 1 and 2. Last year Harry Potter released for European launch of HD DVD....no catching up of BD so far. They could have hurt HD DVD big time by releasing Batman and others at the time of CR if they so chose.

Unlike Paramount who played around with AVC and bit rates etc. Warner is creating disks strictly with HD DVD specs and then porting to BD. So, only HD DVD versions have HDi and other advanced features. When HD DVD gets TruHD, some BD get PCM...

I guess the only choice for Sony will be to sign up for TotalHD or Warner will walk :)


UMM, HD-DVD is battling DVD, too.

The combo format is the trump card. Transformers and Shrek 3 on combo exclusive and your BD just died. Meeeeeeeeeeellions of HD-DVD movies in homes within weeks.

Not when its $35 a pop. Combos didnt exactly make 300 a HOT item for regular DVD buyers. Bluray still outsold it 2:1 and is continuing to outsell it. (300 on bluray was still the #1 selling HD disc last week followed by Wild Hogs)

Im also getting a kick about how people are talking about profit margins and such, when non one on here really truly has a clue how much more, if any, it costs to make an HD-DVD movie vs. a bluray.

Not when its $35 a pop. Combos didnt exactly make 300 a HOT item for regular DVD buyers. Bluray still outsold it 2:1 and is continuing to outsell it. (300 on bluray was still the #1 selling HD disc last week followed by Wild Hogs)

Im also getting a kick about how people are talking about profit margins and such, when non one on here really truly has a clue how much more, if any, it costs to make an HD-DVD movie vs. a bluray.

If the alleged $150mi is used to subsidize the discs it works out to about $10 per disc for 14 million copies. More than enough to make an exclusive HD-DVD Combo format Shrek 3 and Transformers for $24.99 :)

The combo format is the trump card. Transformers and Shrek 3 on combo exclusive and your BD just died. Meeeeeeeeeeellions of HD-DVD movies in homes within weeks.

Yeah, what a bargain. Inferior picture quality and an extra $5 or $6 for something that no one really needs. We buy our HD movies to watch them in 1080P, not for 480P. You can make the excuse that you might want to take it in the car or to a neighbour. So be it, but I buy it to watch in HD. It's also nice to say to my relatives and neighbours that my disk won't play in your machine, so I don't need to lend it and lose it!

Yeah, what a bargain. Inferior picture quality and an extra $5 or $6 for something that no one really needs. We buy our HD movies to watch them in 1080P, not for 480P. You can make the excuse that you might want to take it in the car or to a neighbour. So be it, but I buy it to watch in HD. It's also nice to say to my relatives and neighbours that my disk won't play in your machine, so I don't need to lend it and lose it!

Go to the store and watch Hot Fuzz on HD-DVD Combo format and tell me it's inferior. Until then, please don't talk about things you don't understand.

You HD DVD fanboi's don't seem to want to answer who, besides Toshiba, is ready to step forward and make an HD DVD standalone platform. You all have a lot of bravado to shoot off you mouths about your format. Speak up, your silence is deafening!!

Go to the store and watch Hot Fuzz on HD-DVD Combo format and tell me it's inferior. Until then, please don't talk about things you don't understand.Oh, I understand. I just don't want to pay more money for what I'm paying for. That is one good reason for me not to go neutral. No choice! Just open up and swallow. Price of the SD DVD disk to make? 25 cents! To have it included in the packege? $5 to $6, plus tax! No thanks! Keep it for a beer coaster!

Oh, I understand. I just don't want to pay more money for what I'm paying for. That is one good reason for me not to go neutral. No choice! Just open up and swallow. Price of the SD DVD disk to make? 25 cents! To have it included in the packege? $5 to $6, plus tax! No thanks! Keep it for a beer coaster!

..and if they released Transformers on Combo format for $23.99?

(Remember.. I'm envisioning a $150 million dollar subsidy)

..and if they released Transformers on Combo format for $23.99?

(Remember.. I'm envisioning a $150 million dollar subsidy)Yeah, but they won't. Why? They're greedy. They took the bribe to make money so do you really think that their going to take a loss on their new favourite format, considering that format is only 33% of the HD Optical market? They have to make that money up somewhere, since they shelved 66% of their HD sales!

DVD + HD DVD makes more business sense than DVD + BD. As long as you can't take out DVD from the equation, HD DVD makes more business sense due to far better compatibility with DVD.

BD is battling DVD as much as it is battling HD DVD.

I believe the Matrix box set generated about the same $ value as PoTC 1 and 2 combined due to higher MSRP and I would bet the overall profits were higher for Matrix. Also, since PoTC was being billed as a decider of the format war (The Matrix more a spoiler), I'd say PoTC failed totally in it's objective and so was a much bigger disappointment for the BDA....

Look closely at Warners actions - Batman released to counter PS3, and Matrix released to counter PoTC 1 and 2. Last year Harry Potter released for European launch of HD DVD....no catching up of BD so far. They could have hurt HD DVD big time by releasing Batman and others at the time of CR if they so chose.

Unlike Paramount who played around with AVC and bit rates etc. Warner is creating disks strictly with HD DVD specs and then porting to BD. So, only HD DVD versions have HDi and other advanced features. When HD DVD gets TruHD, some BD get PCM...

I guess the only choice for Sony will be to sign up for TotalHD or Warner will walk :)


I would love to see some real production cost and profit information- it seems as HD DVD is a more cost effective medium vs. bluray.

One other point that I still can't get my head around-
currently Sony has the only BD50 production line- if this statement is correct, how could any studio feel confident in supporting bluray?

For example- lets say that this holiday season that Fox is releasing the Die Hard box set, Disney is releasing POTC box set, and Sony is releasing Spiderman Box set all in BR- for whatever reason all of the masters are late coming in and there is tight time constraint to get discs thru poduction and into retail before black friday- Wouldn't Fox and Disney be slightly concerned that Sony would favor their own release on their own production line over the competitions?

Considering the advance planning and the costs of securing space in the BB or Walmart circulars this would seem to be a large risk the studios are running in the support of BR- could you imagine GM trying to run a business using Toyota's production line????

Yeah, but they won't. Why? They're greedy. They took the bribe to make money so do you really think that their going to take a loss on their new favourite format, considering that format is only 33% of the HD Optical market? They have to make that money up somewhere, since they shelved 66% of their HD sales!

Uh, the point he's making is that the "bribe" money would offset the loss from selling Transformers at reduced cost.

Uh, the point he's making is that the "bribe" money would offset the loss from selling Transformers at reduced cost.

Exactly. "Incentive" -- We will help you create the top selling HD disc ever and at the same time.. ensure your "switch" to "our format" was a wise decision.

If your a studio looking at the future.. investment.. marketing.. as long as you make SOME profit from 1 or 2 releases (Transformers/Shrek3) you can afford to not make as much as you could have.. if it means it's an investment in the future.

Obviously Paramount and Universal have very vested interests in ensuring HD-DVD becomes THE format of the future. If it means they need to give up some cash now... they could do it.

Especially if that DVD has a nice intro about the benefits of HD-DVD -- maybe even putting a few jabs in about the unfinished BD spec and price of players -- that shows right before Transformers SD plays.

I'd expect you'd have a few people rushing out to get players. More players means more titles sold. More titles sold means more money for Universal/Paramount (since it's exclusive)

as long as you make SOME profit from 1 or 2 releases ... if it means it's an investment in the future.

Are people actually going to be compelled to buy a more expensive player (compared to DVD players) for one or two releases. True, you would get some good selling titles and the HD-DVD format would get a boost but such a strategy most likely would require at least a year or so of such releases. All the while the studio would be releasing disks on a media that costs more than DVDs but at the same price and basically giving away the high def version.

Are people actually going to be compelled to buy a more expensive player (compared to DVD players) for one or two releases. True, you would get some good selling titles and the HD-DVD format would get a boost but such a strategy most likely would require at least a year or so of such releases. All the while the studio would be releasing disks on a media that costs more than DVDs but at the same price and basically giving away the high def version.

Don't discount the huge product awareness that would occur with this move.. especially just before holiday season. Right before the after christmas sales blitz.

HD-DVD is just trying to get the name out there... amidst the BluRay hype. They want the consumer to go to the store.. and recognize the brand.. HD-DVD. Whether they buy now.. or in 2 years.

Don't discount the huge product awareness that would occur with this move

Or would most people not even notice and just go into a store and buy the SD DVD version even at the same price.

HDM is still a very little fish. Building product awareness takes time and most people don't read any news about the goings on of either HD-DVD or blu-ray.

One other point that I still can't get my head around-currently Sony has the only BD50 production line- if this statement is correct, how could any studio feel confident in supporting bluray?

For example- lets say that this holiday season that Fox is releasing the Die Hard box set, Disney is releasing POTC box set, and Sony is releasing Spiderman Box set all in BR- for whatever reason all of the masters are late coming in and there is tight time constraint to get discs thru poduction and into retail before black friday- Wouldn't Fox and Disney be slightly concerned that Sony would favor their own release on their own production line over the competitions?

+1

This is an interesting point about which I'd like to learn more. If there are problems with high volumes of BD50, we will see less product in the line during the holiday season. If it's not rectified, we likely will see more defections from Blu-ray.

I guess the only choice for Sony will be to sign up for TotalHD or Warner will walk :)

Good account. If we assume that your hypothesis is correct, then Warner will walk, since I do not think that Sony is very likely to allow Blu-ray to appear on the flip side of HD DVD. In fact, I would go so far as to say that that will never happen.

But I don't think Warner needs to walk. They can keep maintaining public support of Blu-ray, while putting great interactive features on HD DVD and delaying the Blu-ray versions indefinitely. They can pick and choose the Blu-ray titles to put out.

I think Warner wants certain things from Blu-ray. At the very least, they want Blu-ray specs finalized so they can make Blu-ray disks equivalent to HD DVD disks. But I think that Warner may be running into the same dilemma Paramount found itself in: HDi is much easier to use than BD-J, and the the whole production process is easier on HD DVD.

So, IMHO, Warner will support Blu-ray for a while; but this is kind of a long probationary period for Blu-ray. If production costs remain high (or get higher when subsidies are eliminated), Warner will go the way of Paramount. It will be hard to get past the fact that HD DVD is simply the less expensive and less labor-intensive format for studios to produce.

Yeah, but they won't. Why? They're greedy. They took the bribe to make money so do you really think that their going to take a loss on their new favourite format, considering that format is only 33% of the HD Optical market? They have to make that money up somewhere, since they shelved 66% of their HD sales!

You should have emailed Paramount and told them about the 2:1 sales ratio. They must not have taken that into account.

You should have emailed Paramount and told them about the 2:1 sales ratio. They must not have taken that into account.

I believe that Paramount/Dreamworks accounted for approx 200 million of the 1 billion DVD's sold last year (sorry- no link - an "undisclosed source" told me:D).

What is BD's share of SID for HDM? 3 million? So that represents 1.5% of P/DW's output. Guess they look at potential more than actual.

the logic of hd dvd fanboys keep breaking my brain

so less people that can buy their movies would result in more sales? :confused:

I think they meant EVENTUALLY, you know....like how all those great features on the BLU-RAY will work.....EVENTUALLY!!

You know, perhaps there is something we're not seeing in all this with Warner. Maybe they were looking for an out, and now they can see if Paramount will help give them that out.

Paramount being an HD DVD exclusive studio wants to get mass adoption of HD DVD. So Warner could be looking at that and thinking that those Paramount consumers who are buying Transformers and Shrek 3 exclusively could also increase the likelyhood of more Warner HD DVD sales as well as new people come on board. Those new HD DVD owners then know they can also get Harry Potter and LOTR on the same format they just bought. Then they can simply call it a market decision.

I think if the sales split goes back to 50/50 either overall or in Warner's sales, they will make the jump back to HD DVD and simply say they want to help finish the format war and this is how they plan to do it.

It's also nice to say to my relatives and neighbours that my disk won't play in your machine, so I don't need to lend it

What a nice, friendly, inclusive approach to your home theater hobby. I'm glad that blu-ray is accomodating you.

I'm sure locking your relatives and neighbours out will also reap large financial rewards for the BDA. Making a product that only plays on dedicated $500 machines in one room in the house is always a sound business decision

Uh, the point he's making is that the "bribe" money would offset the loss from selling Transformers at reduced cost.And the point is, they won't sell it for a lesser cost. It's all about profit. I can say the same about FOX, on the BD side. Paramount will not take a lesser profit on this title.

+1

This is an interesting point about which I'd like to learn more. If there are problems with high volumes of BD50, we will see less product in the line during the holiday season. If it's not rectified, we likely will see more defections from Blu-ray.-1

At least you don't have to boil them, like some of the Universal HD DVD's!

What a nice, friendly, inclusive approach to your home theater hobby. I'm glad that blu-ray is accomodating you.

I'm sure locking your relatives and neighbours out will also reap large financial rewards for the BDA. Making a product that only plays on dedicated $500 machines in one room in the house is always a sound business decision
Again, more b.s. I paid $401.00 for my Samsung Blu Ray player, in February of this year. Not $500.00. You can get them now in the mid $300.00 range. If my neighbour, relative, or friend want to see the great picture, they come over and watch it at my house. Then they go out and get their own Blu Ray player. They love the crisp picture and great sound that my system provides. In time, I hope all people decide to get on the BD bandwagon and prevent Micro$oft from killing the HD Disk market.

HD DVD adopters = Micro$oft pawns for DIVX2

Again, more b.s. I paid $401.00 for my Samsung Blu Ray player, in February of this year. Not $500.00. You can get them now in the mid $300.00 range. If my neighbour, relative, or friend want to see the great picture, they come over and watch it at my house. Then they go out and get their own Blu Ray player. They love the crisp picture and great sound that my system provides. In time, I hope all people decide to get on the BD bandwagon and prevent Micro$oft from killing the HD Disk market.

HD DVD adopters = Micro$oft pawns for DIVX2

What generation was that machine? You do know that that matters when talking about current generation machines. Does Samsing have a 2nd gen machine?

Gosh, I remember reading it somewhere, but I can’t find the link.. When Sony left the DVD forum to create the BDA, wasn’t it Warner Bros that actually filed the complaint with the US Department of Justice?

When Sony left the DVD forum to create the BDA
Sony is still a member of the DVD Forum.

-1

At least you don't have to boil them, like some of the Universal HD DVD's!

Apparently you have nothing to say about this point in the thread. When that's the case, it's always all right to say nothing.

What generation was that machine? You do know that that matters when talking about current generation machines. Does Samsing have a 2nd gen machine?

He is talking about a P1000 - Gen1. The P1200 was Gen2. Samsung is about to go with Gen3:

P1400
P2400
UP5000 DF Duo.

Too bad none of them are profile 1.1 - all 1.0. So the DF player is fully compliant for HD DVD . . . but not for BD. LOL

One thing for sure is that HD DVD is a more profitable format...companies care about profit in the end.

The BDA seems to be running a lot of retail promos on software as well compared to HD DVD. I am curious why even BD exclusive studio are so gun shy with their releases. They were supoosed to have 90% industry support. But we have pretty much even number of titles. How come? BD was supposed to sell so many players that HD DVD would fail to establish a beach head? But how come the gap in sales for common titles range from a couple of thousand titles to tens of thousands....when the hardware gap is in the millions. Not to each each of those millions of extra players are subsidized to the tune of hundreds of $ each! And studios are not willing to bear the costs of replication either....

It's broken my friends....the BD business model is not sustainable IMO.

One thing for sure is that HD DVD is a more profitable format...companies care about profit in the end.

The BDA seems to be running a lot of retail promos on software as well compared to HD DVD. I am curious why even BD exclusive studio are so gun shy with their releases. They were supoosed to have 90% industry support. But we have pretty much even number of titles. How come? BD was supposed to sell so many players that HD DVD would fail to establish a beach head? But how come the gap in sales for common titles range from a couple of thousand titles to tens of thousands....when the hardware gap is in the millions. Not to each each of those millions of extra players are subsidized to the tune of hundreds of $ each! And studios are not willing to bear the costs of replication either....

It's broken my friends....the BD business model is not sustainable IMO.

Well said!

Didn't Warner just say they were going to ditch the flippers?

from what i read,many combos:) will be reissued as singles...superman returns etc.

One thing for sure is that HD DVD is a more profitable format...companies care about profit in the end.

The BDA seems to be running a lot of retail promos on software as well compared to HD DVD. I am curious why even BD exclusive studio are so gun shy with their releases. They were supoosed to have 90% industry support. But we have pretty much even number of titles. How come? BD was supposed to sell so many players that HD DVD would fail to establish a beach head? But how come the gap in sales for common titles range from a couple of thousand titles to tens of thousands....when the hardware gap is in the millions. Not to each each of those millions of extra players are subsidized to the tune of hundreds of $ each! And studios are not willing to bear the costs of replication either....

It's broken my friends....the BD business model is not sustainable IMO.

Where do you think it is more profitable? Toshiba LOSES money on every standalone machine they manufacture. If it were profitable, there would be more companies making the hardware. The Blu ray hardware makers, where there are many, as opposed to one, make money!

On the software side, show me where it costs more money to produce a Blu Ray disk than an HD DVD disk? I do know that you must pay an additional $5 - $6 dollars for a combo disk, on HD DVD, for an inferior SD Disk that costs 25 cents to make. There is where the profit is. You pay for something that BD supporters don't have to pay, if both formats have the same movie. Example: 300!

Where do you think it is more profitable? Toshiba LOSES money on every standalone machine they manufacture. If it were profitable, there would be more companies making the hardware. The Blu ray hardware makers, where there are many, as opposed to one, make money!

On the software side, show me where it costs more money to produce a Blu Ray disk than an HD DVD disk? I do know that you must pay an additional $5 - $6 dollars for a combo disk, on HD DVD, for an inferior SD Disk that costs 25 cents to make. There is where the profit is. You pay for something that BD supporters don't have to pay, if both formats have the same movie. Example: 300!

LINK?

He is talking about a P1000 - Gen1. The P1200 was Gen2. Samsung is about to go with Gen3:

P1400
P2400
UP5000 DF Duo.

Too bad none of them are profile 1.1 - all 1.0. So the DF player is fully compliant for HD DVD . . . but not for BD. LOL

It is a Samsung BD P1000. It plays Blu Ray disks, and that's all I ask for. When BD hits $199.00 for a next generation machine, this one goes to the livingroom. What's your point? Like I need a 480P picture of some boring Director explaining the movie in the corner.

LINK?

www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1980865,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532

And the point is, they won't sell it for a lesser cost. It's all about profit. I can say the same about FOX, on the BD side. Paramount will not take a lesser profit on this title.
Until the terms of the deal is publicized, you don't really know. All you/we can do is speculate.

Here's a common scenario where Paramount would take less profit. Let's say part of the deal calls for Toshiba to order a large quantity of Transformers, who plans to give away one free copy with each player purchase. Because of the size of the order, Toshiba's price is near cost. Paramount agrees to the deal because a) the large size of the order (the larger the order, the bigger the price break) and b) Toshiba promotes the movie for Paramount. Deals like this goes on all the time.

why would warner go hd dvd exclusive? ....to basically kill off Blu-ray or doom it to being a niche PS3 format?

....to effectively end the format war and make HD DVD the dominate format and successor to DVD?

...because they agree with Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks executives and they know something we don't?

....or potential profits in the future in a one format world?

The only reason that WB would go HDDVD exclusive is if they thought BD was dead or they thought they could kill it. I don't believe that either of these things is true at the moment.

Bottom line: No other A/V hardware company is willing to invest one thin dime on HD DVD standalone players. No profit!

www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1980865,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532

That article is about the 1st gen A1 over a year ago. Tosh is ready to release 3rd gen. That article is as relevant as PS3 cost estimates from time of launch as compared to now. Not at all.

The only reason that WB would go HDDVD exclusive is if they thought BD was dead or they thought they could kill it. I don't believe that either of these things is true at the moment.

Another reason would be if they thought the technology wasn't going to deliver at reasonable cost any time soon. This would be especially true if HD DVD players sales increased substantially, but there is no evidence that this is about to happen.

....to basically kill off Blu-ray or doom it to being a niche PS3 format?

....to effectively end the format war and make HD DVD the dominate format and successor to DVD?

...because they agree with Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks executives and they know something we don't?

....or potential profits in the future in a one format world?More amazing FUD! Warner could go HD DVD exclusive and with the other HD DVD companies could do no better than 50% of the marketplace. That is not domination, it's called parity. Blu Ray will be here, long after HD DVD bows out!

The only reason that WB would go HDDVD exclusive is if they thought BD was dead or they thought they could kill it. I don't believe that either of these things is true at the moment.

I'm not so sure about that. Warner going HD-DVD would mean Disney would follow (they always follow the $$$), and Fox will give up home once BD+ is cracked within a few days of the first release. The dominos line up....and one...by one...they fall...

(of course it could go the other way too, but with Paramount, Dreamworks, and Universal solidly behind HD-DVD, it's unlikely). I think the rats are running down the halls, and Disney and Warner are sitting on the deck saying "hey, where are the rats going?"

That article is about the 1st gen A1 over a year ago. Tosh is ready to release 3rd gen. That article is as relevant as PS3 cost estimates from time of launch as compared to now. Not at all.

I'm still waiting for a first generation player from someone else, besides Toshiba. If the format platform makes money, then where is the lineup to make the machines? Nope! Subsidized, probably by Microsoft. It's their way of killing HD optical media and setting up a system of viewer pays downloads. DIVX2 anyone?

I'm not so sure about that. Warner going HD-DVD would mean Disney would follow (they always follow the $$$), and Fox will give up home once BD+ is cracked within a few days of the first release. The dominos line up....and one...by one...they fall...

(of course it could go the other way too, but with Paramount, Dreamworks, and Universal solidly behind HD-DVD, it's unlikely). I think the rats are running down the halls, and Disney and Warner are sitting on the deck saying "hey, where are the rats going?"
If you're not sure, why did you agree with me?:p

www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1980865,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532 Old old news from a first generation player.


err,, notice the date .... :eek:

Obsolete information. May not even have been accurate at the time.

Beat the dead pony argument. Besides its history now.

Sony is still losing $$$$ more on each PS3 with substantially higher volumes.

Any subsidy in that report was limited to 1st gen production run of 40-75000 units.

Even at $200 each max cost for 50,000 units was $10,000,000 as a jump start to HD DVD launch. Even if true, with different model types subsidy would be far less.

less than a single movies advertising costs.

Did not apply to the first generation HD XA1

Did not apply to the second generation HD A2, HD A20 HD XA2 which were built in the 100,000s on a standard paltform with reduced costs an in volume

Will not apply to the cheaper to build SoC based 3rd generation HD A3 or its sister units.



Welcome to 2007 :rolleyes:

I'm not so sure about that. Warner going HD-DVD would mean Disney would follow (they always follow the $$$), and Fox will give up home once BD+ is cracked within a few days of the first release. The dominos line up....and one...by one...they fall...

(of course it could go the other way too, but with Paramount, Dreamworks, and Universal solidly behind HD-DVD, it's unlikely). I think the rats are running down the halls, and Disney and Warner are sitting on the deck saying "hey, where are the rats going?"The rats are coming from Microsoft's head office. I only count one domino, and that's Toshiba. They stand alone, against many hardware makers doing Blu Ray!

Bottom line: No other A/V hardware company is willing to invest one thin dime on HD DVD standalone players. No profit!
Wrong again, bucko! Onkyo DV-HD805 (http://www.onkyousa.com/news.cfm?id=119) is due out soon, Fall 2007.

Old old news from a first generation player.


err,, notice the date .... :eek:

Obsolete information. May not even have been accurate at the time.

Beat the dead pony argument. Besides its history now.

Sony is still losing $$$$ more on each PS3 with substantially higher volumes.

Any subsidy in that report was limited to 1st gen production run of 40-75000 units.

Even at $200 each max cost for 50,000 units was $10,000,000 as a jump start to HD DVD launch. Even if true, with different model types subsidy would be far less.

less than a single movies advertising costs.

Did not apply to the first generation HD XA1

Did not apply to the second generation HD A2, HD A20 HD XA2 which were built in the 100,000s on a standard paltform with reduced costs an in volume

Will not apply to the cheaper to build SoC based 3rd generation HD A3 or its sister units.



Welcome to 2007 :rolleyes:Where are all the suitors that want to make HD DVD players? I'm sure, if there was a profit for them, LG or ILO or someone would be making them! Nooooboooody!!!!! I guess Microsoft only wants to cut one check to a hardware maker!:cool:

Where are all the suitors that want to make HD DVD players? I'm sure, if there was a profit for them, LG or ILO or someone would be making them! Nooooboooody!!!!! I guess Microsoft only wants to cut one check to a hardware maker!:cool:
LG, Onkyo and Samsung are set to make players, and there may be more news at Cedia.

Wrong again, bucko! Onkyo DV-HD805 (http://www.onkyousa.com/news.cfm?id=119) is due out soon, Fall 2007.I don't see it? Where is it? Probably being held up by all of those Chinese made HD DVD players that were supposed to be at Walmart by now. Probably going to be a dual format player. Call me wrong, when you show me a working model of one on the market. Until then, your spinning!:D

LG, Onkyo and Samsung are set to make players, and there may be more news at Cedia.
Show me the money! Oh, sorry, that's Paramount's line!

Wrong again, bucko! [url=http://www.onkyousa.com/news.cfm?id=119]
[quote]The DV-HD805 will be available in the fall of 2007 at a suggested retail price of $899.That'll get J6P to enter the market on the HD DVD side. I thought that you wanted lower priced players, not more expensive one's. I'll bet that will make a nice upconverted DVD player in a year from now.

[QUOTE=GMan4911;11431493]Wrong again, bucko! [url=http://www.onkyousa.com/news.cfm?id=119]
That'll get J6P to enter the market on the HD DVD side. I thought that you wanted lower priced players, not more expensive one's. I'll bet that will make a nice upconverted DVD player in a year from now.
It's cheaper than the Pioneer and the Denons.

More amazing FUD! Warner could go HD DVD exclusive and with the other HD DVD companies could do no better than 50% of the marketplace. That is not domination, it's called parity. Blu Ray will be here, long after HD DVD bows out!

Of course Blu-ray will always be around. Two words: UMD part 2.

I don't see it? Where is it?

Right in front of your eyes! :D

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2007/08/8-14-07-dv-hd805.jpg

Damn Prince, I'm sorry man but you are really annoying man! Stop being blinded by your brand fanboyism. Embrace both but if you keep sticking to one side, at least be mature about it.

Your occupation must be forum trolling though paid exclusively by the BDA group, or should i say the makers of the PS3 :cool:


Let me add with a little... When exactly will we see a working BD1.1 player that is readily available to the public? Oh wait, that got pushed back until next year...


To be on topic, I feel Warner may stay neutral for another quarter or two but if they were to go to one side it would be HD DVD and it would be announced at CEDIA. Who knows, maybe they'll wait till after XMAS07 to get large sales from both camps. It's business and it's logical. Sure the BD group outsells software by 2:1 but with how many players in peoples homes used specifically for movie watching? That is where it is a joke. Studios see this, the PS3 isn't the goliath Sony promised it to be. Funny though since i seriously thought BD would win specifically due to the PS3. I was a fan of the PS3 and BD but alas, things change.

Damn Prince, I'm sorry man but you are really annoying man! Stop being blinded by your brand fanboyism. Embrace both but if you keep sticking to one side, at least be mature about it.

Your occupation must be forum trolling though paid exclusively by the BDA group, or should i say the makers of the PS3 :cool:

I said this earlier. You know what, Prince is now on Level Alpha on "My List".


To be on topic, I feel Warner may stay neutral for another quarter or two but if they were to go to one side it would be HD DVD and it would be announced at CEDIA. Who knows, maybe they'll wait till after XMAS07 to get large sales from both camps. It's business and it's logical. Sure the BD group outsells software by 2:1 but with how many players in peoples homes used specifically for movie watching? That is where it is a joke. Studios see this, the PS3 isn't the goliath Sony promised it to be. Funny though since i seriously thought BD would win specifically due to the PS3. I was a fan of the PS3 and BD but alas, things change.

I am in partial agreement with you. I think Warner waits through the holiday season to see if Paramount's decision affects their sales ratio to a point where it's economically easier to just support HD DVD. Paramount's move to HD DVD may take a lot of potential new Blu-ray buyers and move them to the HD DVD side, and that may swing Warner's sales as well.

Time will tell. I don't think CEDIA is where this is going to happen.

LG, Onkyo and Samsung are set to make players, and there may be more news at Cedia.

Not to mention RCA:

http://www.rcaaudiovideo.com/en-US/modellist.html?CategoryID=HD+DVD+Player

Damn Prince, I'm sorry man but you are really annoying man! Stop being blinded by your brand fanboyism. Embrace both but if you keep sticking to one side, at least be mature about it.

Your occupation must be forum trolling though paid exclusively by the BDA group, or should i say the makers of the PS3 :cool:


Let me add with a little... When exactly will we see a working BD1.1 player that is readily available to the public? Oh wait, that got pushed back until next year...


To be on topic, I feel Warner may stay neutral for another quarter or two but if they were to go to one side it would be HD DVD and it would be announced at CEDIA. Who knows, maybe they'll wait till after XMAS07 to get large sales from both camps. It's business and it's logical. Sure the BD group outsells software by 2:1 but with how many players in peoples homes used specifically for movie watching? That is where it is a joke. Studios see this, the PS3 isn't the goliath Sony promised it to be. Funny though since i seriously thought BD would win specifically due to the PS3. I was a fan of the PS3 and BD but alas, things change.

I bought my first DVD player at the dawn of the DVD revolution. It cost me over $1000.00. It did not have progressive scan. Did that make that format incompete at the time? It didn't have an optical out, but a digital cable out. Did it make the format incomplete at the time? My digital out was only Dolby Digital, it did not have DTS. Did it make the DVD format incomplete?

DVD player 5 had DVD Audio, did that make my previous DVD players format incompete? Player 6 had SACD and DVD-A. Did that make the previous players format incomplete? DVD player 7 allowed for MPEG pictures and and MP3's to be played. Did that make the previous DVD formats incomplete?

My argument is this: Will Blu Ray improve with their new frameworks, for PiP? Yes. Does it make it incomplete? No. It makes it a work in progress. Just like all of the early versions, like the HD DVD A1, it required software downloads to make it work better. It only played in 1080i. Was that format not incomplete, when it hit the market?

My problem with you guys who support HD DVD is this: Your supporting a company that is ready to toss you and your format over the cliff to get what they want, HD downloads. By destroying the optical market, they, Microsoft, gets to sell you the opportunity to watch your favourite movies. You get no hard copy and there will be an expiration date. If you want to watch an HD movie, again in a month, you'll pay them again for the right to watch it. Now, you buy it, you own it and you can play it, anytime you want. You may think that buying 18 months of exclusivity, on Paramount, is great for HD DVD, but you forget one thing. You already were able to buy the product before this happened. Now the Blu Ray people will not be able to. You gained nothing. You just allowed Microsoft the opportunity to destroy that same market, by denying 2/3 of the consumers from buying in to the market. You don't win anything, Blu Ray loses a small bit and Microsoft gains time to kill us both off. It's not a great time for the HD Disk market, right now.

If they are going to do it, they should not wait much longer. It seems like the longer a studio stays with Blu, the more anger and sense of betrayal the BD crowd will have for them when they go.

Reading posts by Blu-Ray trolls, I just wonder what they will come up with and what conspiracy theories they'll whip out when Warner goes exclusive, HDDVD/DVD combos replace SD DVDs $19.99 and players hit $149.
But the real kicker will be when Samsung, LG, Pioneer, Sharp, Hitachi and other CE companies start coming out with HD DVD players. I guess they'll all have to be paid big time in order to do so LOL.

I'm seriously concerned about their mental state. They might start commiting suicides on a mass level.

I guess that "the higher you fly, the harder you fall" saying will be proven once more. I'm always absolutely fascinated with the lack of logic and objectivity by Blu-Ray tools.

Reading posts by Blu-Ray trolls, I just wonder what they will come up with and what conspiracy theories they'll whip out when Warner goes exclusive, HDDVD/DVD combos replace SD DVDs $19.99 and players hit $149.
But the real kicker will be when Samsung, LG, Pioneer, Sharp, Hitachi and other CE companies start coming out with HD DVD players. I guess they'll all have to be paid big time in order to do so LOL.

I'm seriously concerned about their mental state. They might start commiting suicides on a mass level.

I guess that "the higher you fly, the harder you fall" saying will be proven once more. I'm always absolutely fascinated with the lack of logic and objectivity by Blu-Ray tools.You may be premature on this. What happen if Warner goes Blu? Will you say the same about your format then? For the record, no exclusive Blu Ray studio has ever switched sides, so don't bet your house on it!

If they are going to do it, they should not wait much longer. It seems like the longer a studio stays with Blu, the more anger and sense of betrayal the BD crowd will have for them when they go.Warner and Paramount were original HD DVD advocates and went neutral. No Blu ray exclusive studio has ever went neutral or switched sides.

Damn Prince, I'm sorry man but you are really annoying man! Stop being blinded by your brand fanboyism. Embrace both but if you keep sticking to one side, at least be mature about it.

Your occupation must be forum trolling though paid exclusively by the BDA group, or should i say the makers of the PS3 :cool:


Let me add with a little... When exactly will we see a working BD1.1 player that is readily available to the public? Oh wait, that got pushed back until next year...


To be on topic, I feel Warner may stay neutral for another quarter or two but if they were to go to one side it would be HD DVD and it would be announced at CEDIA. Who knows, maybe they'll wait till after XMAS07 to get large sales from both camps. It's business and it's logical. Sure the BD group outsells software by 2:1 but with how many players in peoples homes used specifically for movie watching? That is where it is a joke. Studios see this, the PS3 isn't the goliath Sony promised it to be. Funny though since i seriously thought BD would win specifically due to the PS3. I was a fan of the PS3 and BD but alas, things change.Your right, things change. Just because HD DVD had a good week, doesn't mean that the format war is going to go 180 the other way. Until two or three straight positive HD DVD announcements happen, it's just a blip and a small setback for BD.

Not to mention RCA:

http://www.rcaaudiovideo.com/en-US/modellist.html?CategoryID=HD+DVD+PlayerToshiba chassie!

Right in front of your eyes! :D

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2007/08/8-14-07-dv-hd805.jpg
Where is it for sale on August 27, 2007?

Of course Blu-ray will always be around. Two words: UMD part 2.
Is that like DIVX2, like Microsoft has lined up for all of us?

Reading posts by Blu-Ray trollsCheck the number of years that I have participated on this site and ask yourself, "are you worthy?"

Why would Warner go HD DVD Exclusive?

Simple - they may feel that bluray is losing it's credibility.

1) They've been waiting for BD 1.1 forever - have been trying to develop releases like The Matrix, yet the only BD 1.1 player announced has now been delayed to Q2 2008.

2) It's more expensive to produce Bluray discs than HD DVD, cutting into their profitability. This doesn't just include production costs, but also mastering, etc. And let's not forget that BD-J is much more complicated than HDi to create, and likely requires more man-hours from much more expensive programmers.

3) Here we are 1 & 1/2 years into the format war, and BD still does not appear to be ready.

4) One of the only (or perhaps THE only) company that can replicate BD-50 dual layer discs is said to be Sony. Even if Warner gets a "special pricing" subsidy from Sony, Sony also operates a competitor (Sony Pictures). Is it really smart to build your business model on the continued "graciousness" of your competitor? Or would it be sensible to assume that this "special pricing" would be withdrawn as soon as Sony thinks they've "won" the format "war"?

5) HD DVD player sales will rocket this holiday shopping season, based on far lower prices for HD DVD players. However, the PS3 sales continue to dawdle.

6) The BDA's projections of nearly 4 times greater sales than HD DVD by the end of this year never materialised. Now HD DVD sales continue to hold up.

7) The Paramount and Dreamworks decisions will not only add additional sales to HD DVD and take away sales strength from BD, but it also gives great additional credibility to the HD DVD format.

I could go on, but these seem front of mind at the moment...

You know what's interesting?

It's interesting that there are people that think that Warner won't go HD DVD exclusive :)

Here:

Go here http://www.warnervideo.com/warner_bros_hi_definition/us/html/tech_specs.html

and here http://www.warnervideo.com/warner_bros_hi_definition/us/html/inMovieExperience.html


and let me know if you see Blu-ray anywhere in there LOL

Where is it for sale on August 27, 2007?

And where is the 1.1 player and on and on and on...

It's interesting that there are people that think that Warner won't go HD DVD exclusive :) LOL

I believe Warner has taken notice at how well Blu-Ray is doing when compared to HD-DVD in its own titles.. If Warner wanted to end this, they would have gone exclusive already since it is obvious Microsoft was trying to accomplish the same thing with them as with Paramount. As others have stipulated, Warner might be under a contract which doesn't allow them to break without steep financial consequences. However if that was the case, Microsoft would have been able to cover those losses if it meant finaliziing a deal/contract for exclusivity. It seems Warner has taken the high road at least for now and software sales was/is probably the number one reason they didn't take Microsoft's offer as of yet.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/08/13/300_hddvd_bs_bluray/

And where is the 1.1 player and on and on and on...

This corks my a$$ plenty, if Starz actually delivers on Halloween, Evil Dead II, and Dawn of the Dead. At some point I'll want them, but no way will I buy a player not 100% future proof to snag them. IMO too little is made of this issue, at least it's a pretty big deal to me.

...and before anyone says it, I DON'T WANT A GAME CONSOLE AS MY BD PLAYER.

Where is it for sale on August 27, 2007?
Sorry, man...do your own legwork. :p

I believe Warner has taken notice at how well Blu-Ray is doing when compared to HD-DVD in its own titles.. If Warner wanted to end this, they would have gone exclusive already since it is obvious Microsoft was trying to accomplish the same thing with them as with Paramount. As others have stipulated, Warner might be under a contract which doesn't allow them to break without steep financial consequences. However if that was the case, Microsoft would have been able to cover those losses if it meant finaliziing a deal/contract for exclusivity. It seems Warner has taken the high road at least for now and software sales was/is probably the number one reason they didn't take Microsoft's offer as of yet.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/08/13/300_hddvd_bs_bluray/



You are funnier and funnier with each post you make.

If they are going to do it, they should not wait much longer. It seems like the longer a studio stays with Blu, the more anger and sense of betrayal the BD crowd will have for them when they go.

I have the feeling that at some point there will be a lot of people absolutely outraged at being 'burned' by their format because they thought for sure it was the 'winner' all along.

Even though we all knew going in that this is the gamble you make as an early adopter in this kind of climate, and even though a careful accounting of the true strengths and weaknesses of each format belies a different picture than simple marketing hype would lead you to believe.

UMM, HD-DVD is battling DVD, too.

Not really.

Even with its rocky start, the Combo (and eventually triple layer twin format) is a HUGE advantage for HD DVD. Consumers can buy one copy of the movie that plays in both their regular DVD players (of which there are 100's of millions) and their HD players. Retailers only need to stock one SKU.

With BD, you have to burn a copy of the movie onto DVD (oh whoops, you can't) if you want to play it in the car, portable player, laptop, bedroom, etc. Or, you have to buy BD players for all of these locations. OR, consumers have to buy the movie both on BD and on regular SD DVD, man that's gonna piss off J6P.

Retailers have to stock both the BD SKU and the DVD SKU for all new releases.

This is a big deal and from a retailer/economics aspect HD DVD wins that round.

www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1980865,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532

June 23, 2006!:p

You know what's interesting?

It's interesting that there are people that think that Warner won't go HD DVD exclusive :)

Here:

Go here http://www.warnervideo.com/warner_bros_hi_definition/us/html/tech_specs.html

and here http://www.warnervideo.com/warner_bros_hi_definition/us/html/inMovieExperience.html


and let me know if you see Blu-ray anywhere in there LOL

That is rather interesting. Not one single mention of Blu-Ray at all. But several mentions of HD-DVD throughout.

;You know what's interesting?

It's interesting that there are people that think that Warner won't go HD DVD exclusive :)

Here:

Go here http://www.warnervideo.com/warner_bros_hi_definition/us/html/tech_specs.html

and here http://www.warnervideo.com/warner_bros_hi_definition/us/html/inMovieExperience.html


and let me know if you see Blu-ray anywhere in there LOL
Eye opening! Thanks for the links!

June 23, 2006!:p

WOW! You do realize that ALL of us know about Toshiba subsidizing the Gen1 players - NO ONE has EVER said they didn't.

But there are NO links WHATSOEVER that say they are losing money on the Gen2 players which are TOTALLY different in design then the Gen1 which in reality is a PC with an HD DVD drive in it.

Keep looking though. Maybe . . . just maybe you will be the one to find it. No one else has been able to. But don't let that stop you. It will keep you busy . . . .so you can post less FUD.

You know what's interesting?

It's interesting that there are people that think that Warner won't go HD DVD exclusive :)

Here:

Go here http://www.warnervideo.com/warner_bros_hi_definition/us/html/tech_specs.html

and here http://www.warnervideo.com/warner_bros_hi_definition/us/html/inMovieExperience.html


and let me know if you see Blu-ray anywhere in there LOL
mentions blu-ray here: http://www.warnervideo.com/warner_bros_hi_definition/us/html/titles.html

and here:
http://www.warnervideo.com/warner_bros_hi_definition/us/html/what_hd.html

hey, you asked...

Not to mention RCA:

http://www.rcaaudiovideo.com/en-US/modellist.html?CategoryID=HD+DVD+Player

Congrats on the worst first post eva!:p

Warner became one of the directors at BDA a year ago, the deal was already done. Nothing can change it.

You need to learn how to properly analyze data. When there are 5:1 more BD players are out there with only 2:1 of the sales ( actually 1.46:1 if you aren't a fanboy ), it tells you that BD doesn't sell very well.

It's okay little guy, your PS3 can still be used to play games... oh wait...

Talk about properly analyzing data. Your analysis assumes that people who choose HD-DVD will buy more movies long term than people who buy Blu-ray. That is utter non-sense. Your logic is that if HD-DVD wins, the studios will sell more movies than if blu-ray wins.

The bottom line is that regardless of which format wins, once a format winner is determined, movie sales will be largely the same with either format. So attach-rates are completely meaningless, since in the end, attach-rates will eventually be the same for either format. It's not like HD-DVD makes people want to buy more movies for some reason. The truth is that the PS3 demographic is of a nature that they don't buy as many movies as people who buy stand-alone players, but that says nothing at all about how blu-ray is perceived compared to how hd-dvd is perceived.

The only number that matters is total number of movies sold. If am selling something and you tell me I can sell twice as many of them to group A as group B, you can bet I am going to prefer to sell to group A. Does it really matter to me that there are 5 times as many people in group A as in group B...nope...doesn't matter to me at all.

Greater number of sales doesn't = greater profit

The bottom line is that regardless of which format wins, once a format winner is determined, movie sales will be largely the same with either format. So attach-rates are completely meaningless

Agreed. Following that reasoning, the PS3 is simply being used as a marketing ploy in the early adopter phase. Current sales numbers are meaningless in the long run, since eventually, everyone will own an HDM player (we hope!) and the PS3 will have no substantive effect on movie sales. It should not, nor should ANY sales numbers from Neilsen, Amazon, etc., be used in any sort of debating context as far as who is "winning" the format war. Fat chance of that happening!

I'm still waiting for a first generation player from someone else, besides Toshiba. If the format platform makes money, then where is the lineup to make the machines? Nope! Subsidized, probably by Microsoft. It's their way of killing HD optical media and setting up a system of viewer pays downloads. DIVX2 anyone?

or you in a time warp!
onkyo hd dvd player .coming soon
and one more in sept.
paydown loads with hd pq is a long way off.
you seem to bring up old stuff,dont you read the lateist news?:mad:

Considering the advance planning and the costs of securing space in the BB or Walmart circulars this would seem to be a large risk the studios are running in the support of BR- could you imagine GM trying to run a business using Toyota's production line????
Worst. Analogy. Ever.

GM DOES use Toyota's production line. And last time I checked, they DO run a business.

"The upcoming CEDIA next week may prove to be very interesting. With the cheap HD-DVD players looking like a reality, no 1.1 complaint BD players on the horizon, the Paramount/Dreamworks announcement and the fact that Warner is not shipping any new hi-def media until next week while continuing to extol the virtues of HDi interactivity on
HD DVD on their website, one can only wonder if a HD-DVD exclusivity announcement will be made by Warner Brothers at CEDIA. If that comes to pass, can Fox and Disney afford to at least go neutral?"

Never thought about the fact no titles are shipping right now. Inteeeerrreeesting.

http://www.tvpredictions.com/2007/08/could-warner-support-hd-dvd-next.html

I have the feeling that at some point there will be a lot of people absolutely outraged at being 'burned' by their format because they thought for sure it was the 'winner' all along.

Even though we all knew going in that this is the gamble you make as an early adopter in this kind of climate, and even though a careful accounting of the true strengths and weaknesses of each format belies a different picture than simple marketing hype would lead you to believe.

You mean like people who belong to a cult and then crash when they get deprogrammed?

Some interesting points brought up in that blog. Thanks!