CuznEddy Cinema Project Begins [Text View] - Page 6

cuzed2

11-01-11, 08:33 AM

So once the theater was done - our attention turned (temporarily) to our dated kitchen. The plan is to eventually do a complete makeover with Granite tops, Cabinetry changes, Lighting, etc, etc...However; college years are quickly approaching, so we decided to do a quick economical make-over to the kitchen island to tide us over, until funding is restored.

The original Island was the builders handi-work, was too small to sit at, was formica, and to make matters worse; had a space robbing Jenn-Air cook-top that we rarely used.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/OldKitchenIsland.jpg

So; last weekend, I ripped out the Jenn Air, ditched the formica top and up-sized the island by installing the previously mentioned American Maple dance floor.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/NewIsland_bright.jpg

Not sure why the color is so yellow in this shot but another angle:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/NewIsland-yellow.jpg

I suspect that some new swivel armchair stools are also in our near future

4 or 5 years or so down the road; I am hoping the rest of the kitchen will be updated to have contrasting granite for the surrounding counters...??

Wazzey

11-01-11, 09:19 AM

I liked the pole idea better :)

cuzed2

11-01-11, 09:32 AM

I liked the pole idea better :)

I know what you mean - this started out as a bit of a spoof, However a removable pole would certainly make the old man-cave HT quite versatile. Now that's what one could call "truly 3D" (maybe even 4D)

hanesian

11-01-11, 03:47 PM

However; college years are quickly approaching, so we decided to do a quick economical make-over to the kitchen island to tide us over, until funding is restored.

Hope you study hard and get into the college of your choice, Craig. ;)

Nice upgrade there. We did something similar-ish (actually added a small island and removing in-kitchen table) and it has made our kitchen much more efficient/usable. Much more comfortable to sit and drink beer in there now. :o

RTROSE

11-01-11, 04:15 PM

Hey,

I was not far off with my original guess of a cutting board now was I? Looks very nice, well done. Mrs. RTROSE and I went through a kitchen remodel about five years ago. It was actually the smoothest remodel/home DIY project I have ever done. The stars and planets must have been lined up extra straight then I guess.

You will find it hard to believe how much you now will use your island. When we were going though our kitchen plans Mrs. RTROSE wanted an island (there was not one there previously) and I poo pooed the idea, well now I can't see us not having an island, we use it for a lot of things. As for the bar stools, that is a nice addition to have so family/friends can sit and visit while you and MRS cuzed toil away cooking for them.

As with the others though I still vote for a stripper pole! Oh, well. Maybe in the next "remodel". ;-)

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

11-01-11, 04:41 PM

cuzed2

11-01-11, 04:46 PM

Hope you study hard and get into the college of your choice, Craig. ;)

Nice upgrade there. We did something similar-ish (actually added a small island and removing in-kitchen table) and it has made our kitchen much more efficient/usable. Much more comfortable to sit and drink beer in there now. :o

Hanes,

Thanks! I will likely, forever be enrolled in the College of Hard Knocks - this institution seems to be well-suited to my hard head. This weekend I am certain we will be testing the "beveragability" of the new island.

Wazzey

11-02-11, 11:31 AM

I think a removable stripper pole would be more in keeping with my open-floor plan, flexible space theater :-)

Now I remember why I keep coming back to the forum. The great ideas that you all come up with are priceless. I'll throw the mobile stripper pole idea past Mrs. Wazzey and see if I can make it stick.

cuzed2

11-02-11, 04:05 PM

I'll throw the mobile stripper pole idea past Mrs. Wazzey and see if I can make it stick.

Good Luck - let us know how that turns out !!

RTROSE

11-02-11, 08:53 PM

Good Luck - let us know how that turns out !!

Yeah, if she goes ahead with it, let us know what works. There was one of the talk shows that did the whole "pole dancing" cardio exercise thing. It was at the same time coincidentally Mrs. RTROSE was talking about getting more exercise. I jumped on the bandwagon right then. Sadly she never did buy into it. I even told her that I would watch her "exercise" and would tuck dollar bills as encouragement. Hmmmm........I woke up three days later with one hell of a headache! :eek:

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

11-03-11, 08:34 AM

RT, Again - I like the way you think!
It is good to know that you emerged from that negotiation with the Mrs, with your sense of humor intact

cuzed2

11-22-11, 09:33 AM

Wishing Everyone and anyone who might "saunter by" this old thread;

A Happy, Healthy, and relaxing Thanksgiving!!
Please remember to give Thanks and Prayers to our uniformed men and women overseas!

As for ourselves this weekend;
After enjoying our fill of turkey, libations, and football: We will officially kick off the Holiday season with the annual viewing of "Christmas Vacation", followed by exterior illumination activites on Friday :)

Brad Horstkotte

11-22-11, 10:35 AM

This thread isn't old - its a classic. ;)

Happy Thanksgiving!

cuzed2

11-22-11, 01:27 PM

Thanks Brad!
Kind of like when one hits a "magic birthday"

hanesian

11-22-11, 03:33 PM

This thread isn't old - its a classic. ;)

Happy Thanksgiving!

Subtle distinctions like this are sometimes all we have to cling to. But it could be worse.

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/hanesian/alzheimers.jpg

queendvd2

11-22-11, 07:44 PM

Wishing you, Mrs. cuz and your family a very blessed Thanksgiving :)!

cuzed2

11-22-11, 07:51 PM

Wishing you, Mrs. cuz and your family a very blessed Thanksgiving :)!

Queen - Thanks!
We also wish you the best.

cuzed2

11-22-11, 07:53 PM

[QUOTE=hanesian;21245811]Subtle distinctions like this are sometimes all we have to cling to. But it could be worse.

Hanes..??

I don't think we've met - pleasure meeting you, and a great Thanksgiving!!

a67epipadjlb

11-22-11, 07:55 PM

cuzed2

11-23-11, 08:34 AM

RTROSE

11-23-11, 09:15 PM

I would build a box out to match the box out that you need for your water meter. It will help keep the focus on the screen vs it feeling "uneven" to the viewers. I did something similar to this for my wall opposite from my posts. I wanted it to look/feel even, so I built fake posts to match even though it wasn't needed. It just so happened to work out well for wall sconces!!
http://www.quandulps.info/5.jpg
http://www.akseriesonline.info/huang4.jpg
http://www.akseriesonline.info/huang3.jpg

?????????????????????????????????????????

Ok, now back to our (your) classic thread. Wishing all of you a very Happy Thanksgiving and a blessed Holiday season. Enjoy your day with friends and family. Like Craig said, please remember our men and women in uniform.

Regards,

RTROSE

RTROSE

11-23-11, 09:17 PM

Be Safe and Enjoy!

Did you respond to your own post?

You feeling ok?

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

11-27-11, 03:02 PM

Did you respond to your own post?

You feeling ok?

Regards,

RTROSE

I guess I did - yikes!!
Thought I was responding to someone else (Seems my days of multi-tasking are long gone

RTROSE

11-27-11, 09:50 PM

I guess I did - yikes!!
Thought I was responding to someone else (Seems my days of multi-tasking are long gone

Too funny. I was never any good at multi-tasking so I don't even pretend to do it. I tell Mrs. RTROSE all the time that I'm a simple minded man that is only able to focus on one thing at a time. Let me finish what I'm working on, then I can give what you want me to do my full attention, but not till then. Seems to work most of the time.

I just got a chuckle out of it. So while we are here anything note worthy going on? Still prepping for that kitchen remodel?

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

11-28-11, 12:56 PM

RT,

Giving your wife your full attention (when the time is right) is a good thing :)

As for our kitchen remodel:
I did finish the Island update. However a full remodel well come after I know how my youngest' college plan comes together. He's a sophmore in high school - so that kitchen plan may be a few more years away...

We will be thinking of you on Wednesday when the fruits of your carpet selection comes to life.

RTROSE

11-28-11, 06:38 PM

Ah,

I think that I do now remember the college thing being mentioned earlier. As for the fruits of my labor in picking carpet, I'm happy, I just hope my reputation as a carpet counselor stays intact.

Regards,

RTROSE

JonyHouse

12-02-11, 10:09 PM

nice job!

cuzed2

12-03-11, 10:44 AM

RTROSE

12-03-11, 06:33 PM

Jony House,

Assuming your kind words are for my build - I say thanks!
Took me three years to build, and I am approaching an additional 2 years to post final before/after photos. I have a professional photographer friend. whom I need to "hire" for some final shots, and then it just might be time to retire this thread :)

No, no, no.........the only way you can retire your thread is if you start v2.0. There still will be the occasional theater update and what not, oh and the next subwoofer purchase etc, etc.

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

12-25-11, 01:17 PM

Wishing everyone that ambles by here:

A Very Merry Cuzzn-Eddy Xma,s and a Happy New Years!

Just remember Clark; we are taking the motor home with us when we leave next month

RTROSE

12-25-11, 05:39 PM

Wishing everyone that ambles by here:

A Very Merry Cuzzn-Eddy Xma,s and a Happy New Years!

Just remember Clark; we are taking the motor home with us when we leave next month

Right back at you big man! Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas. May all of your motor homes bathrooms be empty! :D

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

12-26-11, 08:24 AM

may all of your motor homes bathrooms be empty! :d

regards,

rtrose

amen!!

cuzed2

12-27-11, 03:21 PM

Hoping Everyone had a good Christmas and is getting ready for the New Year??

I was previously thinking of letting this thread fade away into the sunset.
However at the urging of another, I will keep posting some updates. The next batch of updates will include my novice efforts at "treating, tweaking and trying to equalize" my space.

I touched on these efforts earlier, but it is now time to "tinker and learn by doing". My novice trial and error approach is also why I am posting these feeble efforts here instead of one of the more professional "room treatments or EQ threads", where I would most certainly embarrass myself :)

Below is a sketch of my current sub-woofer layout.
The good news >> all SVS cylinders are equidistance to my favorite front and center listening position. The bad news >> I have 2x20-39s that almost match, and one 16-46.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/FinalSVSSWlocationsketch.jpg

cuzed2

12-27-11, 03:39 PM

IN the sketch above my mains (Klipsch RF35s) are in the front corners of the screen wall just above and inside the front SVS cylinders, about 18" forward of the screen wall.

The graph below; some of you may remember as my first dismal attempt at running REW (room EQ Wizard). As you can see I had all 3 SVS cylinders running quite hot, I also have a problem of several nulls.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/06-14-11_4thmeasuremainsall3svs.jpg

cuzed2

12-27-11, 03:43 PM

The green trace was with only the RF35s (no subs)
The purple trace was done when all 3 SVS cylinders were switched on.

I am pretty sure the 120Hz and 450 Hz nulls are characteristic of my room.
In fact I can further reduce the 120Hz null to about 1/2 by experimenting with the height of the RF35 mains

cuzed2

12-27-11, 03:53 PM

So back to the current effort:

Until yesterday; I had never run Audysey on my system (I have an older Marantz 7002, which you cannot decode the new audio Codecs and run Audysey simultaneously). I have since started decoding in my source players, and this has freed up the Maranatz to run Audysey.

Here is the result of the speaker distances in manual mode:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/7002manualsetup-speakerdistances.jpg

And after running Audesey:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/7002Audyssydistancesettings.jpg

Here is the speaker gain settings from manual mode with a ratshack meter:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/7002manualsetup-dbsettings.jpg

And after letting Audyesy do the work:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/7002Audyesy-dbsettings.jpg

You will notice that in the Audyssey shots above, that there is no sub-woofer shown? Correct; I ran it without subwoofers, I intend to use this new tool to setup and attempt to equalize my subs (yes all 3 at once!!):
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/Velodyne_SMS-1_Installed.jpg

cuzed2

12-27-11, 03:57 PM

Running Audysey also forced me to go back thru my system setup. In doing so you will notice that between my setup skills, and Audysey >> my rear surrounds have now been discovered! :)

RTROSE

12-27-11, 06:18 PM

Craig,

I'm glad that you have decided not to retire your thread. I'm watching with interest as I know that once I'm done, I will be entering into this stage of the madness. Right now I have absolutely no clue what all of this means and how to go about about adjusting all of this stuff. I get the rat shack meter and doing the manual settings, but the REW is voodoo to me right now. The Sub eq is that new to you? I don't recall seeing it before. How does that tie in with all of the work that Audysey does. Did you not have the benefit of your rear surrounds until now? Sorry for all of the questions, just trying to wrap my head around all of this new stuff.

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

12-28-11, 10:30 AM

Some answers below

Craig,

I'm glad that you have decided not to retire your thread. I'm watching with interest as I know that once I'm done, I will be entering into this stage of the madness. Right now I have absolutely no clue what all of this means and how to go about about adjusting all of this stuff. I get the rat shack meter and doing the manual settings, but the REW is voodoo to me right now. The Sub eq is that new to you?

Definitely new to me - this Velodyne box, although not state of the art is great in that it gives you a video output, so that you can easily see your room response without having to resort to a laptop/REW setup.

I don't recall seeing it before. How does that tie in with all of the work that Audysey does. Actually the newest versions of Audysey are suppose to be very capable of measuring and equalizing the low frequency signal to your subs. In some receivers the newest version of Audysey is also capable of EQ-ing multiple subs. My Marantz uses an early limited version of Audysey. The added "bonus" feature for me is that the Velodyne box adds a nice easy way to visualize in "near live time" how your subs are interacting with your room

Did you not have the benefit of your rear surrounds until now? I did have some benefit from the rear surrounds - but I had never really set them up properly.

Sorry for all of the questions, just trying to wrap my head around all of this new stuff.

Regards,

RTROSE

RTROSE

12-29-11, 05:40 AM

Thanks for the info. Maybe through all of this you can become a CREW (Certified Room EQ Wizard). I am going to have to do a lot more searching/learning/reading on the subject.

Regards,

RTROSE

Brad Horstkotte

12-29-11, 11:23 AM

You may have already done this, but just in case: for measuring just the sub response, turn off smoothing, as it may mask some narrow peaks and nulls.

cuzed2

12-29-11, 01:18 PM

Thanks for the info. Maybe through all of this you can become a CREW (Certified Room EQ Wizard). I am going to have to do a lot more searching/learning/reading on the subject.

Regards,

RTROSE

RT,

I will be declining any/all nominations for a CREW title. WAY too much to comprehend and master. Thru trial and error I'm just hoping to end up with some "practical gains" :)

cuzed2

12-29-11, 01:22 PM

You may have already done this, but just in case: for measuring just the sub response, turn off smoothing, as it may mask some narrow peaks and nulls.

Thanks Brad - something I need to look out for. Due to a recent ejector pit pump failure in my basement; my "EQ" efforts have been delayed a few days.
Fortunately - I caught it before we had any water events!

RTROSE

12-29-11, 03:27 PM

Thanks Brad - something I need to look out for. Due to a recent ejector pit pump failure in my basement; my "EQ" efforts have been delayed a few days.
Fortunately - I caught it before we had any water events!

Man just the thought of this makes me shudder! :eek: Glad that you were able to catch the problem before it was an "issue"

Well whether or not you get the title is not up to you, it is left to the general masses or an individual so you may get the title like it or not. :D

Looking forward to seeing more graphs and your attempts at making you space more sonically appealing.

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

12-29-11, 04:40 PM

Wazzey

12-29-11, 05:28 PM

Glad you caught your pit problem before there was a real problem. Looking forward to reading your comments about getting your subs worked out. I've never messed with sound setup much so I need to learn all I can. Get er done

RTROSE

12-29-11, 08:51 PM

RT,

I knew my pump failure would grab your attention. This particular ejector pump was only for the waste drains for my basement bathroom and powder room. I knew something was amiss when; after considerable water draw in the bathroom, the pump did not run. (As a test - I know that 2 toilet flushes should "cycle my pump")

So; I simply shut down the water supply to the bar and bathroom. Then last night
I determined the rarely used, 4 yr old sewage pump did indeed die. Bought a heavy duty cast iron replacement unit at lunch time today, and hope to be back to normal soon...

Yup,

I stay very in tune to my pumps (or at least I try to) as I know failure brings a multitude of headaches. I can sleep through a thunderstorm, but have my pumps alarms go off and I'm wide awake to investigate.

Again I'm glad that you were aware of the situation and it did not become a much bigger issue.

Now don't you have some room measurements to take?

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

12-30-11, 10:30 AM

Update,

The ejector pump for my downstairs bathroom and bar sink, has been resolved. For the pump replacement I went with a heavier duty unit (cast iron instead of the original stamped sheet metal/plastic construction). Big bonus in going with the heavier duty cast iron pump >> MUCH QUIETER!! The old setup sounded like a garbage disposer running, the new one is just noticeable. :)

I hope to resume some sub-woofer graphs and EQ stuff during the weekend

queendvd2

01-02-12, 07:09 PM

Glad to hear you got the pump issue resolved. What would cause a rarely used 4yr old pump to go bad? Paranoia on this end!

cuzed2

01-02-12, 08:16 PM

RTROSE

01-02-12, 08:22 PM

First of all; I am afraid it was a very cheap pump. And another factor was probably because it was rarely used (on average only 1~2 per week?)

Aside from pump issues - Wishing everyone a Belated Happy New Years on your side!!

Happy New Years to you as well.

Pumps can fail from lack of use as well as wearing out. Sounds as though 1 to 2 times a week should have been enough to keep everything in good working order. However if it is mechanical, at some point it will fail. THAT is inevitable.

No paranoia needed, just vigilance. ;)

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

01-03-12, 11:33 AM

OK back to sharing the results of my recent audio tweaks:
What is making this fun is being able to see the low frequency room response in near real-time on the SMS-1.

The initial graph below seems to correlate rather well to my earlier REW attempts, especially that nasty null around 125Hz!
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/VelodyneInitialGraph.jpg

I had previously messed with changing the height and placement of my RF35 mains and observing with REW, at that time I found that I could somewhat minimize that 125Hz dip. So this past week; I experimented further while watching the SMS-1 to see if I could affect what was going on with my mains. One of the tests involved moving a roll of unused linacoustic around in front of the mains.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/Frontsoundstagetests.jpg

Although I didn't save the graph i could see on the SMS-1 that I was minimizing and shifting the frequency of the 125Hz null. I could also make similar improvements by increasing the height of the mains and pulling them about 12" further away from the the front wall. SO this was my test arrangement:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/SpeakerStands.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/Mainsraised.jpg

Below is the resulting graph after repositioning the mains. With repositioning alone; the 125 Hz null shifted to the left, and was reduced from a 13db did to about a 10db dip. The tape mark on the photo below marks the original excursion of the 125 Hz null.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/Mainsraised-Velodynemanualtweaks.jpg

I then went one step further; I raised the crossover frequency on my Marantz from 80Hz to 120Hz and then used the Velodyne slider to try and add some sub-woofer boost into the crossover area near the 120Hz null. The graph immediately above shows the affects of both efforts (placement and boosting the sub-woofers to help with the null). Both changes now appear to have reduced the 125 Hz null from 13db dip to about a 5db dip? I also diddled with boosting the 60Hz null (from 5 db to about 2.5db)

The one thing that I am becoming sure of is; that the original 125Hz null and the 60Hz null (also now boosted); are artifacts that are characteristic of my room. Side note; One needs to be very careful when trying to boost nulls; that one does not overdrive a sub-woofer, cutting the peaks is a better approach whenever possible.

I then diddled some more with a modest boost to the lowest frequencies, and then re-watched some of the my favorite low frequency movie scenes. The result brings a smile to my face :) :)
Next up: I need to revisit some measurements with REW to see my entire response from 10Hz to 20Khz

cuzed2

01-04-12, 04:25 PM

So last night I (attempted) to go back and make some comparison REW measurements. I was hoping to see what difference repositioning my mains might have made. First graph is from June of last year before I tinkered with re-positioning and raising the mains:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/06-14_1stmeasuremains.jpg

The next one is a hasty measurement made last night with the mains raised 5" and moved further away from the front wall:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/SPLonlygraph_03-02-12.jpg
It is also apparent that I am still learning how to use REW (as you can see above; last night I had a gross issue with my SPL/db level being mis-calibrated) didn't notice this until I had taken everything down. Assuming last nights data is somewhat valid; it seems that repositioning the mains did flatten things down a bit?

Please note these were taken full range of the mains only (no crossovers, no subwoofer signals, and therefore the Velodyne SMS-1 was not in play).
Open to all suggestions & comments, especially on what I am doing and doing wrong with REW :)

RTROSE

01-04-12, 10:56 PM

zamboniman

01-04-12, 10:57 PM

Ed long time no talk. Hope all is good. Im actually in the middle of the beginning of my new build so you will have to stop by this summer :)

Build threads to follow as time allows.

Glad to see you plunging into measurements and room correction where the fun really lives.

My hunch is your null is shared by most its just audibly invisible until you see the picture. That one is most likely caused by the quarter wave reflection off the back wall from your mains. You'll know if you can easily move it around by shifting them closer or farther from the wall. Short of building them into a baffle wall or bringing them way out in the room chances are you can move or lessen the null but not eliminate it.

zamboniman

01-04-12, 11:02 PM

27 inches from speaker to rear wall is close for 125hz. Im assuming your mains are close to that range.

cuzed2

01-05-12, 08:16 AM

Ok,

I understand that a flat line is optimal. Is that flat line representing that all frequencies are at a specific db level say 74 in your first example. In the same example you have a fall off around 35 hz because you are not using a sub and then a roll of at 1.5k due to the room or speaker? Why choose 74 db? You will have to forgive me as I am really really new to all of this and I in no way understand any of it.

Regards,

RTROSE

RT,
Hey good to see you are becoming a student in this arena of acoustics, REW, equalizing, room treatments, etc.. (I still feelvery much like the dunce in the corner) :)

You are correct in that a flat line is desirable, once that is achievable people even go farther by adding something called "house curves" to suit their tastes. For movie watchers it is also common to boost the LFs by a few db. Nothing magic about 74db; however; it seems most people like to establish a reference volume around 80db. I need to get more proficient with REW. I then intend to repeat my setups and adjustments using a reference level of 80db, and then repeat all my measurements with prettier documentation.

cuzed2

01-05-12, 08:24 AM

27 inches from speaker to rear wall is close for 125hz. Im assuming your mains are close to that range.

Zamboniman,
It's great top hear from you. I hope all is going well for you and your family!!
Please don't hesitate to PM me if you are ever looking for some build assistance or a helping hand.

Your comment above seems to be right on the money with what I have discovered thru tinkering around. I was also surprised to see that I could affect that null by raising the height of the mains. The following quote is very fitting ]"My hunch is your null is shared by most its just audibly invisible until you see the picture"[/B] Classic!

cuzed2

01-08-12, 05:50 PM

How's this for a low tech, cheap project?
Last week's "measurement-tinkering" convinced me that there was some definite benefits in raising my main speakers. I already had everything I needed except for some black carpet to cover the platforms. So for $9.00 at Menards, I found some pliable black carpet that is sold by the foot.

First step was to use a belt sander to radius the corners of the platforms:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/SpeakerStands.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000361.jpg

The rest was pretty straightforward, trickiest part was to get a nice straight cut for what would become the seam along the top edge:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000363.jpg

Started by stapling one end of the carpet strip to the back side of the platform. I then used adhesive spray to glue the rest around the perimeter of the platform.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000364.jpg

And then glued the top piece on:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000366.jpg

Not bad for $9.00 and a few hours of piddling around
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000367.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000368.jpg

RTROSE

01-08-12, 06:05 PM

Hey,

You are talking my language, low tech cheap projects are awesome. I really like your solution to your search for audio nirvana. They turned out really nice too. Well done.

Now don't you have some more graphs to make and publish?

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

01-08-12, 07:01 PM

Ah yes - my nemesis;
Trying to get some decent "calibrated" REW graphs ........

Wazzey

01-08-12, 07:45 PM

Nice. Now don't you have a masking project to build?

cuzed2

01-08-12, 08:20 PM

Nice. Now don't you have a masking project to build?

DAMN !!
It's impossible to sneak anything past this group. Wazzey - you're correct and I'm busted. You will be the first to know when my masking project starts in earnest - because I will be pestering you often for advice :)

Wazzey

01-08-12, 08:45 PM

Rose im'd me and said he needed help keeping you on your toes.

RTROSE

01-08-12, 09:31 PM

DOH! Now you weren't supposed to tell him Wazzey that was supposed to be our little secret. I think we all need a little extra motivation at some points in time now don't we?

Regards,

RTROSE

tony123

01-09-12, 05:40 AM

The stands are genius.

NicksHitachi

01-09-12, 05:56 AM

So last night I (attempted) to go back and make some comparison REW measurements. I was hoping to see what difference repositioning my mains might have made. First graph is from June of last year before I tinkered with re-positioning and raising the mains:

The next one is a hasty measurement made last night with the mains raised 5" and moved further away from the front wall:

It is also apparent that I am still learning how to use REW (as you can see above; last night I had a gross issue with my SPL/db level being mis-calibrated) didn't notice this until I had taken everything down. Assuming last nights data is somewhat valid; it seems that repositioning the mains did flatten things down a bit?

Please note these were taken full range of the mains only (no crossovers, no subwoofer signals, and therefore the Velodyne SMS-1 was not in play).
Open to all suggestions & comments, especially on what I am doing and doing wrong with REW :)

Hey Cuz,

i know your pain with measurements and the frustration of not getting that graph as flat as you would like.

Your graphs dont look too bad though..... How about a waterfall of the last graph?

I assume your crossing 80 or higher since your mains have a big peak below that?

cuzed2

01-09-12, 10:21 AM

The stands are genius.

Thanks Tony,
"Genius" seems quite generous - but I'll take it :)
I had a bunch of mdf and particle board laying around that needed a home.
Worked out great because that stuff is heavy - the finished pedestals weigh about 23 lbs. each

cuzed2

01-09-12, 10:26 AM

NicksHitachi,
Thanks for the input. Still trying to get my head around REW, a few responses below

Hey Cuz,

i know your pain with measurements and the frustration of not getting that graph as flat as you would like.

Your graphs dont look too bad though..... How about a waterfall of the last graph? I have no idea how to go about doing a waterfall? - next time out with REW, I'll have to tinker some more

I assume your crossing 80 or higher since your mains have a big peak below that? I'm crossing at 120Hz now, seems to help to have the subs pickup some of this "dip", especially with 3 subs spread around the room.

NicksHitachi

01-09-12, 11:24 AM

NicksHitachi,
Thanks for the input. Still trying to get my head around REW, a few responses below

I'm crossing at 120Hz now, seems to help to have the subs pickup some of this "dip", especially with 3 subs spread around the room.

ahhh ok i wondered if it might be smoother crossing in that range.

FYI you can generate the waterfall from old stored measurements. Open measurement, click on waterfall tab, click generate button bottom left, and itll generate the waterfall from the measurements.

Pay attention to how far the graph comes out at you. The more it does the more ringing you have at that frequency. Ill bet most of those dips/peaks have significant ringing which causes reaponse anomalies. Any ringing past 300ms is Bad. The lower you can get it generally the better.

Oh, and not nitpicking, convention is to post FR graphs with a 60db span on the axis scale, This helps orient folks when interpreting your graphs.

cuzed2

01-09-12, 11:38 AM

"Oh, and not nitpicking, convention is to post FR graphs with a 60db span on the axis scale, This helps orient folks when interpreting your graphs"

Yep - this was driving me crazy, I couldn't get it to display what I was expecting (that being an average reference level around 80db). I think my problem was one of not properly calibrating the db/spl pressure when I started.

So my question related to the initial set-up of REW: I know there was an opportunity to calibrate the spl/db setting via software. However; perhaps I should have first established my setup by using the sample measurement and setting my AVR gain to 80db with a "rat-shack" meter. The doing the software spl calibration?

cuzed2

01-09-12, 11:58 AM

NicksHitachi,

I think this what you are looking for:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/SPLonlygraph_03-02-12.jpg

And the corresponding waterfall graph. Looks cool :) (too bad I don't know what I'm looking for?)
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/Myfirstwaterfallgraph.jpg

Wazzey

01-09-12, 12:14 PM

NicksHitachi

01-09-12, 01:21 PM

NicksHitachi,

I think this what you are looking for:

And the corresponding waterfall graph. Looks cool :) (too bad I don't know what I'm looking for?)

To calibrate your rew setup bring up spl meter, play test tone, click calibrate button on on spl meter panel, measure actual spl
with other spl meter, enter measured reading into REW and it calibrates.

As far as your graph, change the y axis to reflect 60db span or in this case 110-170db. This gives those familiar with REW a graph theyre used to.....

Waterfall, those areas where the waterfall comes all the way out ie. 50hz and 80hz you have major ringing. Higher up you see waterfall disappears before the front edge of graph........

That 50hz ring is the largest correctable issue i see. Itll take some serious bass trapping to tame but evey little bit you tame will pay off big time as thats right in the slam department.

If you have correction software like audyssey it will even notch out that area to try to tame the ring but bad part is youll lose output and flat response characteristics........

cuzed2

01-09-12, 02:11 PM

Nick,
Thanks for the fast REW feedback and suggestions:

MY response: "To calibrate your rew setup bring up spl meter, play test tone, click calibrate button on on spl meter panel, measure actual spl with other spl meter, enter measured reading into REW and it calibrates."
Thanks!!, You have just confirmed what I was beginning to suspect >> I failed to grab a reading with my rat shack meter, which I should have then entered into the REW software calibration routine. (I probably should go back and re-read the REW tutorial)

I do indeed need to use better etiquette by double-checking the span of my vertical scale.

As for the low freq. ringing and bass trapping:
I originally bass trapped the two front vertical corners, and the horizontal front wall to ceiling intersection (superchunk method). I am now wishing that I would have finished my soffits as bass traps instead of dry-waling over the soffitt frames. My back corners are somewhat limited (closet door in one corner and the opposite rear corner has limited space due to my overflow seating). That said; I do have a 1/2 roll of linacoustic to move around the room to experiment with.

Your comments about Audyssey being of help:
I have a Marantz 7002, it utilizes the older Multi-Eq. Didn't think Multi-EQ could do much for equalizing these lower frequencies. Although I am starting to experiment with a Velodyne SMS-1

zamboniman

01-09-12, 03:20 PM

cuzed2

01-09-12, 04:49 PM

Zamboniman - Thanks!!
So when are you going to start your build?

RTROSE

01-09-12, 05:11 PM

What language are all of you speaking? Oh, never mind I forget that I'm a noob when it comes to this stuff. Don't worry, I'll catch up.

Regards,

RTROSE

NicksHitachi

01-09-12, 05:27 PM

Absorbent Bass trapping (more like midbass trapping) isn't going to help at 50Hz. Your best bet is to just put a little EQ on it. That will go a long way. Otherwise you're into tuned resonant chambers like Dennis E. puts into his risers.

No sleep to loose on the soffit decision.

I disagree with EQ being a better solution to ringing at 50 Hz and that bass trapping won't help that low.:confused: I'm basing this purely on my own measurements and experience.:rolleyes:

BTW, I only believe half what I read over on the acoutic treatments master thread. That discussion gets fanatically derailed discussing highly technical debate which in our world of AT means little.

Exhaust treatment possibilities before you slap some EQ on it. EQ causes just as much problems as it corrects.

Cuz,

Are your measurements with or without Audyssey engaged? To see what EQ does to your response try this: With Audyssey engaged I'll bet you a beer every one of those modal ringing regions will coincide with a dip in your FR. Since your version doesnt cover the sub region. Look above the sub crossover with Audyssey dis-engaged. look for regions of higher ringing on the waterfall graph. Now look at the FR with Audyssey engaged whats happening in those areas of higher ringing? I'll bet Audyssey is cutting those regions to cure the Ring/Decay which reduces the ring by reducing your systems output in that region but now youve got a hole or dip in your FR.

zamboniman

01-09-12, 05:48 PM

NicksHitachi

01-09-12, 06:08 PM

Using the absorption approach ... adding enough to make a worthwhile difference at 50Hz you end up absorbing way too much elsewhere. Over treatment is a real thing and it's easy to end up with a lifeless room.

That said I agree that treatment first rather than generic EQ, however in the sub base territory in rooms as small as ours.. A quick parametric filter really is extremely effective and is very cost effective.

Z,

Your making the assumption that we're talking all broadband absorption. There are bass trapping solutions which do not over attenuate the higher frequencies and should be applied as needed.

However most rooms will never come close to over abosorbed unless you get really carried away trying to tame lower frequencies with broadband absorption. Broadband absorption is however generally effective for most rooms with mild to moderate application. Cuz's room is far from over treated judging by his graphs.

I'm not sure if by your post you mean applying PEQ to correct FR or Decay/Ringing. They are two different problems. Yes PEQ is absolutely effective for flattening FR but it cannot correct Decay/Ringing without negatively affecting FR.

zamboniman

01-09-12, 07:06 PM

All im saying is if you try a simple filter on that peak and it won't take much you'll clean up quite a bit. It'll improve what you hear the response graph and the waterfall since less energy is being added to the room.

Just taking the simple approach here. In a matter of moments you can get quite far improving and you didn't spend any time or money building anything. Not sure the SMS gets you focused enough as I haven't worked with it. Bottom line there are lots ways to skin a problem. Just offering some advise that is simple and very effective.

cuzed2

01-10-12, 08:19 AM

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the interest and especially for the suggestions. From your discussion/debate; I now have some new things to think about, and try. One thing is for sure; my REW skills will need to be improved upon to be worthy of your inputs :) I'll drag the laptop, (Mic and Tascam units) back out and play some more, while trying out your suggestions.

As for more treatments;
As mentioned earlier the front of my room is pretty well bass-trapped (x3). The back of my room is lacking, and is not setup very well to accommodate additional trapping, I'll be posting some photos soon to show the limitations in the back of the room .

Thanks Again for your inputs!!

cuzed2

01-10-12, 09:04 AM

So here are the photos showing the rear of my room, and why bass trapping will be difficult. Off to the right side of the photo (left side when seated) is the large open space (our billiards room).
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000375.jpg
As you can see between the EQ cabinet on the right and the doors on the left, there is not much room to install bass trapping. Up above my back surround speakers are in the way.

The only place that might accommodate some bass trapping is on the left side between the entry door and the closet door. The corner walls (where the light switches are) measure 12.5" x 17.5", A corner trap here would have a face width of 21", not optimum but might be worth the trouble?
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000376.jpg
I have about a 1/2 roll of linacoustic that I might place in this corner as a test, for my next go-round with REW :)

NicksHitachi

01-10-12, 10:03 AM

So here are the photos showing the rear of my room, and why bass trapping will be difficult. Off to the right side of the photo (left side when seated) is the large open space (our billiards room).

As you can see between the EQ cabinet on the right and the doors on the left, there is not much room to install bass trapping. Up above my back surround speakers are in the way.

The only place that might accommodate some bass trapping is on the left side between the entry door and the closet door. The corner walls (where the light switches are) measure 12.5" x 17.5", A corner trap here would have a face width of 21", not optimum but might be worth the trouble?

I have about a 1/2 roll of linacoustic that I might place in this corner as a test, for my next go-round with REW :)

Cuz,

It looks like you have quite a bit of decor in that space and it looks very good. Like you mentioned any further substantial treatments will probably take away from the appearance......

Looks like a broadband absorber on back wall? What material/ thickness? Is there an air gap behind? You could add some deep bass traps to the back wall. Google ethan winer bass trap DIY. Deep bass trap panels are covered by 1/4" plywood with rigid fiberglass inside sealed to the wall. They could be used back wall or anywhere you have open wall space.

21" corner traps are certainly worthwile if you can make it work.

Also where the back wall meets ceiling corner traps would work, if you can fit into decor.

I your high frequencies get too damped in the process cover some traps outside face with kraft paper and theyll function more like mid/low traps reflecting most the high stuff.

Performance vs appearance is where it gets tricky.

cuzed2

01-10-12, 10:57 AM

NicksHitachi

01-10-12, 01:31 PM

Nick,

Definitely at a point of appearance -vs- performance tradeoffs. I want to start-out by testing with the linacoustic just to see how much potential improvement there might be.

As for the backwall; that was an early effort that involved some leftover materials. It is 2" thick OC 703, spaced only about a 1/2" off the wall.

Something else; I had been toying with was to strip the drywall from this back wall, fill between the studs with mineral wool, cover it with a 1" layer of linacoustic, than cover that with GOM (using a chair rail - to cover the GOM seam). However; being worried about fire-codes, I chickened out.

As for the backwall meeting the ceiling; I would have to move my recessed back surrounds, they are in the ceiling about 6" in front of the wall (didn't show up on the photo)

Are all your other treatments like that? 2" with 1/2" gap? If so theyre doing virtually nothing below like 500hz. The air gap on the back is almost as important as material thickness. Double up for 4" thick and 2" air gap in back and you will easily double their performance from 500 down.

Maximize what you already have before adding more stuff to that beautiful room.....

cuzed2

01-10-12, 01:53 PM

The other treatments are as follows:

The bass traps up front are made from stacked 4" mineral wool.
- LR floor to ceiling are 17 x24 superchunks
- overhead soffit is filled with stacked mineral wool (2 layers = 8" deep), width of room & extends from screen about 42" into the room,
The front wall and the flanking sidewalls have 1" linacoustic

The first reflection points from my mains miss my 1st row seating positions, so no treatments for sidewall reflection. My center channel is in the overhead soffitt angled down to the front row. Placed a 1" OC703 panel on the ceiling at the FRP for the center channel.

I'm thinking it would be easy (and I have the room) to build a back wall panel as per the following: Double up for 4" thick and 2" air gap in back and you will easily double their performance from 500 down.

cuzed2

01-12-12, 02:50 PM

OK; last night I returned to the basement to see if I could do any better with REW, after re-reading the tutorial again (and with tips from the gentlemen above). My first task was to perform a full range measurement to see how it would compare with my initial efforts. First Up; is the before graph, from June (and although it does not include the Sub signal it does show my problem areas). You can see in this graph the early tinkering to adjust the position of my mains:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/6-20-11_michoriz_mainsonfloorandraised.jpg

Last nights graph is full spectrum, and although the actual reference db level is not an exact match, this does suggest I have made some progress? The biggest factors were: 1) repositioning the mains, and 2)Using the Velodyne to "cut/boost/tweak" the crossover area, in order to minimize the dip ~100Hz. Side note: I am liking my new "low-freqency "house curve" :)
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/FullSpectrum_1-11-12.jpg

I then wanted to try some before and after tests to see if it is worth my time to try and squeeze any additional bass trap into the back corner of the room. Not sure if checking via a waterfall is the best method to check, but I gave it a try. First graph is with no added test bass trap material in the back:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/SubsOnly-NoTestBass-Trapinbackcornerofroom_1-11-12.jpg
I then rolled a 1/2 roll of linacoustic in to the back corner by the doors and re-ran the graph:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/SubsOnly_withLinacoustictesttrapinrearcorner_1-11-12.jpg
Any difference seems to be very slight (perhaps reducing ringing in the 120Hz area?) All opinions and suggestions are welcome!

zamboniman

01-12-12, 03:19 PM

Without reading all the history.... regarding your xover integration between the mains and sub. Have you adjusted the sub distance setting in your AVR in increments and run the REW measurement? What you'll find is you can't go by a measured distance for best sub to main integration and that Audessy won't get it right either (It makes a calculation but doesn't go back and check it's work in the real world). I'd start with 1 ft increments.. This is a great exercise regardless giving you a picture of what's actually happening between the 2. You may find that you can eliminate the dip entirely without any EQ boost and that the final sub distance setting may be far different than what intuition would expect.

Probably goes without saying .. save all your settings... The sub distance / integration setting is one of the 1st things you want to achieve so that needs to happen prior to any EQ being applied etc.. The easiest way is to run the sweep on the center via driving the L and R input at the same time and using PLII AVR setting. Getting the center to sub is the big one but if you really want to get fancy you can try to find the middle ground with the L and R as well. Of course this is all to some single mic location.

Ultimately, what you are going to stumble into is how good (or lack thereof) a system like Audessy really does compared to having your own measurment and EQ system. While adequate for 90% of users that go plug and play.... once you open this kimono it's all over.. Now that you are measuring the room it ends up being like the red pill blue pill analogy.. Did you really want to take it ;)

By the way...... nice room response so far.. If I'm to believe that graph it's showing +/- 5dB for the response window.. Almost too good.

Happy listening

cuzed2

01-12-12, 03:46 PM

Z,

Thanks for the suggestions (and the comment on my overall response, seems to be real, unless I'm making some really dumb errors with REW).

As for your suggestion:
I have been reading about others (on another thread) that are tinkering with the sub distance in order to optimize their crossover result. This should be very easy for me to do by making 1' adjustments in the receiver speaker settings, and then watching the response on the Velodyne monitor. I will try the center channel method you have described, I will just unhook all of my preamp connections between my AVR/AMP, EXCEPT for the center channel, and then use the PLII AVR setting.

zamboniman

01-12-12, 04:31 PM

cuzed2

01-12-12, 04:49 PM

Z,
Good advice - THANKS!

RTROSE

01-13-12, 09:18 PM

NicksHitachi

01-14-12, 07:25 AM

So with all of this scientific bantering back and forth the real question is, Does it sound any better? If it does is there still room for improvement? If not then what in the sam hill are you waiting for, get back to work you lazy bum!

Regards,

RTROSE

If your not gonna work on something at least cruise around others threads and prod them along..... ;)

cuzed2

01-14-12, 03:49 PM

So with all of this scientific bantering back and forth the real question is, Does it sound any better? If it does is there still room for improvement? If not then what in the sam hill are you waiting for, get back to work you lazy bum!

Regards,

RTROSE

RT,
First; I was skeptical about reading other posts where; after "EQ"ing and running Audyssey others will describe their bass as being less "muddy"..??

1) Well I can now say without hesitation, that I too have noticed a clear difference. The bass that I am now hearing is cleaner, I would say it seems to be better defined, with more "punch".

2) And; although the improvement is less dramatic (or could be my imagination) seems to be some minor improvement in that dialogue now seems clearer also??

Summary of what tweaks seems to have produced the most audible improvements to my ears:
a) The Velodyne tinkering - without a doubt
b) A close second would be repositioning the mains.
c) and third - Not yet ready to make any claims that this early version of Audyssey (Multi-EQ) has contributed much. Although I need to be fair, and hold up on passing judgement until I tinker around and run it a few more times.

cuzed2

01-14-12, 03:54 PM

And one additional thought,from what I have learned so far. The following would fit into the "If I could start over again" column:

"I wish I would have put a little more thought into the layout of the rear of my HT room - In other words I wish I would have designed in provision to more easily allow bass trapping for the back corners" (placement of rear doors, rear surrounds are too close to the back wall/ceiling intersection, etc...)

Moggie

01-17-12, 09:49 AM

Hi Craig,

Thanks for the heads up to check out your drapes (if you weren't over in the media/games room section I'd stop in more often ;) ). This is the kind of thing I'm thinking about in my theater but probably with a matching valance as well. What type of fabric did you use and is it single thickness or backed with a lining? Did you or your wife make it?

I'm enjoying catching up on your EQ journey -- I remember being one of the most tedious parts of my build.

Cheers.

NicksHitachi

01-17-12, 10:31 AM

Since you brought up E.W. I thought I'd share these if you haven't already seen them. Pay close attention to the deep bass traps which are covered by 1/4" ply so they just work on the bass more like a resonator than a absorber.......

Enjoy!:D

http://www.ethanwiner.com/BTPlans.gif

cuzed2

01-17-12, 10:47 AM

Nick,

Funny that you should mention Ethan's "how-to" website. Over the 3-day weekend I spent more time reading up on these plans. The result is as follows:

My original back wall treatment consisted of a 30x60" panel of framed 2" OC703 wrapped in GOM.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/BWbasstrap1.jpg
I have since pulled this down and as you can see, am in the process of modifying it.

Using materials I have on hand I am re-framing it into a 5 1/2" deep bass trap. The front side now becomes the back side with a 1.5" air gap from the wall.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000372.jpg

Flipping it over gives you what will become the new front side. I am adding 1" of additional OC703
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/BWbasstrap3.jpg

Added some blocking to make sure I maintain a .75" air gap between the front .25" plywood face and the OC703.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/BWbasstrap4.jpg

I then added a .25" plywood skin to the front side (glued brad-nailed and trimmed, but not yet yet shown). Tonight will find me using a router to "roundover" the left and right vertical edges. I will then paint the front face black, then will stretch some new Burgundy GOM across the front. The final step will be to cap the top and bottom edges with some stained oak trim, and remount.

cuzed2

01-17-12, 10:50 AM

Correction:
Photo #1 above (where did that come from?), should be replaced with this one:
Front side of old panel becomes back side of new trap with blocking to assure a 1.5" air gap
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/BWbasstrap2.jpg

NicksHitachi

01-17-12, 10:59 AM

cuzed2

01-17-12, 11:00 AM

Hi Craig,

Thanks for the heads up to check out your drapes (if you weren't over in the media/games room section I'd stop in more often ;) ). This is the kind of thing I'm thinking about in my theater but probably with a matching valance as well. What type of fabric did you use and is it single thickness or backed with a lining? Did you or your wife make it?

Cheers.

Moggie,
About 3 years ago (when the basement was in dry-wall phase), the wife and I were taking a break, were out shopping, and found these drapes on sale at JCPenneys :), Struck us both as the "just right look" for what we were trying to achieve. It is a single thickness fabric.

cuzed2

01-17-12, 11:06 AM

Glad to see somebody is working around here..... Lately ive been watching otter videos and stuff ;)

Looks good Cuz, just make sure you have an air gap between plywood face and fiberglass the plywood face is supposed to vibrate when excited, without the gap it becomes more like a boundary.

Nick,
Exactly; kind of a resonator, with lower freq. absorption inside. Here is what I will have, starting from the front side:
1) 1/4" plywood panel
2) .75" airgap
3) 3" of OC703
4) 1.5" airgap, then my wall
5) total thickness is 5.5"

This will cover almost 1/3 of my back wall, I will share before and after waterfall measurements, hopefully a difference can be seen.

Moggie

01-17-12, 01:15 PM

Moggie,
About 3 years ago (when the basement was in dry-wall phase), the wife and I were taking a break, were out shopping, and found these drapes on sale at JCPenneys :), Struck us both as the "just right look" for what we were trying to achieve. It is a single thickness fabric.

Well that's it, I just have to spend more time shopping.. :eek:

Your resonator idea is interesting. Needless to say I'm very curious on the results.

cuzed2

01-17-12, 01:47 PM

Moggie,
Actually the idea was taken directly from Ethan WInner, check it out here;
http://www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html
The changes I made was to utilize 3" of OC703 instead of 1".
Hopefully it will make a difference...

brausch

01-17-12, 08:03 PM

I am very interested in your results. Like you, I didn't plan for any acoustic treatments on my back wall...seems like what you came up with is a good way to address the issue after the fact.

cuzed2

01-17-12, 09:06 PM

Thanks - I'm hoping I get improvement out of this one

NicksHitachi

01-18-12, 06:07 AM

Are you gonna have any absorption on the back wall? I would think you should need something diffusion or absorption.......?

cuzed2

01-18-12, 10:07 AM

RTROSE

01-19-12, 08:25 PM

I don't know WHAT you are doing, but I can say what your doing looks good!

Now the 10,000.00 dollar question is will it do what it is supposed to do (what ever that might be)?

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

01-19-12, 09:00 PM

I'm not so sure myself, I hope it does something!!

smakovits

01-19-12, 09:04 PM

wait. the front of has plywood on it? call me stupid but how does that absorb or did I miss something big time?

RTROSE

01-19-12, 10:25 PM

wait. the front of has plywood on it? call me stupid but how does that absorb or did I miss something big time?

I think that is actually the back. The front is (I think) open to the insulation and then covered with fabric. Or there is the possibility I'm all wet. :o

Regards,

RTROSE

brausch

01-20-12, 08:30 AM

Ha, I thought the plywood was away from the wall, to reflect the high frequencies and try to tame the lower frequencies...

cuzed2

01-20-12, 10:09 AM

Smaks - welcome back & thanks for checking in!
OK gang, as for the discussion above; The following from Ethan Winner is an excellent discussion on what I'm experimenting with.
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html#bass%20traps

The following is a very brief excerpt taken directly form his write up:
"a typical wood panel membrane trap. When a wave within the effective range of frequencies reaches the front panel, the panel vibrates in sympathy. Since it takes energy to physically move the panel, that energy is absorbed rather than returned into the room. The fiberglass then damps the plywood panel so it doesn't continue to vibrate. Were the panel allowed to vibrate freely on its own, less energy would be needed to keep it moving, so it would absorb less"

Summary:
First; the plywood face will face into the room.

I would love to be able to redo the back half of my room to allow super-chunk corner bass traps in 3 back corners (L-R-and along the ceiling intersection with the wall). However due to hasty planning, and my desire not too tear up my space, I cannot use the highly effective superchunks back there. So I am experimenting with this secondary solution. I will deem it successful if it helps out with ""medium-LF" in the range between 50 and 150Hz?

I hope to post more photos and graphs with in the week :)

Brad Horstkotte

01-20-12, 10:30 AM

Isn't a membrane / resonating trap tuned to a specific frequency that needs attention? I didn't think they could be broadband, like a porous absorber?

RTROSE

01-20-12, 11:06 AM

Summary:
First; the plywood face will face into the room.

Yup, I'm all wet. :( That is what I get for chiming in when I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Very interesting reading though. I'm trying to learn all about this hocus pocus sound treatment stuff as well.

Guess I'll just lurk for awhile. :D

Regards,

RTROSE

NicksHitachi

01-20-12, 11:11 AM

Yup, I'm all wet. :( That is what I get for chiming in when I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Very interesting reading though. I'm trying to learn all about this hocus pocus sound treatment stuff as well.

Guess I'll just lurk for awhile. :D

Regards,

RTROSE

These are not the acoustic treatments your looking for.......(waves hand).

cuzed2

01-20-12, 03:31 PM

Isn't a membrane / resonating trap tuned to a specific frequency that needs attention? I didn't think they could be broadband, like a porous absorber?

Exactly! Not the first choice for a "common" room treatment. However; based on what I read in Ethan's notes this one will hopefully offer improvement in the fairly narrow freq. range between 50 -150Hz, or at least that's what I am hoping..

Brad Horstkotte

01-20-12, 04:40 PM

Definitely looking forward to seeing how it turns out, go go go!

NicksHitachi

01-21-12, 08:57 AM

Isn't a membrane / resonating trap tuned to a specific frequency that needs attention? I didn't think they could be broadband, like a porous absorber?

My understanding is that they have a wider operating range than a narrow band treatment like a helm holtz but narrower than a broadband absorber. Anything that excites the front panel will be diffused into heat by the OC703 inside the panel.

Exactly! Not the first choice for a "common" room treatment. However; based on what I read in Ethan's notes this one will hopefully offer improvement in the fairly narrow freq. range between 50 -150Hz, or at least that's what I am hoping..

Cuz, I was hoping these might be effective lower since its effectively the deep bass trap design. Did you get that operating range from somewhere? I looked and could not find operating ranges for the designs.....

cuzed2

01-21-12, 09:13 AM

Nick,

There was a follow-up on Ethan's page where someone commented that they found Ethan's design to be effective between 60 and 180 HZ. With mine being of a larger dimension I'm thinking it will be effective at "slightly" lower frequencies - I should know soon enough (before and after waterfalls will be the key)

cuzed2

01-23-12, 11:49 AM

NicksHitachi

01-23-12, 12:11 PM

OK gang; I have rehung the reworked panel on my back wall. I will post photos after I finish up with the trim.

Here is the before/after data (before measurements were taken with a bare wall). Immediately below are the full range measurements at 1/12 smoothing and at 1/3 smoothing. The panel absorber does seem to be helping in the +/-100Hz range. Also; seems the reflective surface is hurting me a bit in the 600 to 2Khz range (a trade-off I am hoping Audysey will fix). I also have an explanation for the high frequency "roll-off improvement" (this area is circled in red & is most likely a measuring artifact)
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/BeforeAfter1-12smoothing.jpg
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/BeforeAfter1-3smoothing.jpg

And the before after waterfalls. I was being very careful to make sure the variables in both waterfall graphs were constant. Although harder to see; I think the slight improvement (shown here is real)?
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/WaterfallBefore-nopanel.jpg
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/WaterfallAfter-w-panel.jpg

Cuz, that looks real good. I'm particularly impressed with the improvement in the 25-40Hz region. It handled those pretty well.

One note though you might want to set your noise floor a little lower you might not even see some of the improvement made with a 60db floor. Do you know what your floor runs? I might would drop it to like 45db and see how it looks.

Also your high freq dropoff might be due to Audyssey being deactivated. If you turn it back on and re-calibrate it should bring it back up....

cuzed2

01-23-12, 12:41 PM

Thanks Nick,
I went into this with modest expectation, and for the most part I am happy. Thanks for the tips and encouragement. I will be revisiting all things Audysey & Velodyne just as soon as I get several hours; undisturbed, with a quiet house. My plan is to:

1) rerun Audysey (with no Velodyne EQ)
2) Then try manually tweaking the AVR subwoofer distance to optimize for the flattest response in the crossover area
3) And the final step > "tune" as needed with Velodyne EQ

hanesian

01-23-12, 12:48 PM

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/hanesian/51779293.jpg

Rut roh! :eek:

Another one lost to waterfalls and roll offs! Just turn your head a bit and pretend you know what he's talking about! :o

cuzed2

01-23-12, 04:00 PM

Hanes,
Hey I tend to get that same look on my face when I try to figure out what just happened on my own graphs. Good to see you have my back :)

smakovits

01-23-12, 04:18 PM

I am with Hanes, I have no idea what i am looking at...

RTROSE

01-23-12, 08:51 PM

I saw this video in another thread and thought that it was an appropriate analogy for what Craig is trying to do to get a good graph.

bJoCulItdxg

Enjoy!

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

01-24-12, 08:41 AM

Too Funny!

cuzed2

01-30-12, 09:56 AM

An update bump:
This weekend found me finishing the oak trim (top and bottom sides of the panel absorber), took photos but forgot to post. And' I'm on my way out of town for the week.
I know NO photo Proof - No Progress !

RTROSE

02-01-12, 09:16 PM

Hey,

Safe travels my friend and I'll cut you some slack on the photos until you get back.

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

02-02-12, 10:47 AM

Thanks RT!
Will I see the new speakers when I return home on Saturday and check your thread?

RTROSE

02-02-12, 09:44 PM

Thanks RT!
Will I see the new speakers when I return home on Saturday and check your thread?

No unfortunately as they are still on schedule for Monday.

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

02-07-12, 12:28 PM

Here's a few shots with the front panel (1/4" ply) installed and finished up. I used a 5/8" round-over bit for the left and right vertical edges. After these photos were taken, I painted the front side black before covering with matching burgundy GOM
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/Frame1.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/Frame2.jpg

And here are the finished photos of the panel trap being trimmed in oak (note the clamps)
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000399.jpg

And with a "done" stamp:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000416.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000415.jpg

Next Project will be low voltage / low profile / lighted poster box for the stairwell landing, that's in the entry path to our HT. With a little luck this will also feature the entry ticket booth artwork (I think China-dog provided the original version of the artwork). I started a thread over on the theater accessories forum

zamboniman

02-07-12, 12:40 PM

And here are the finished photos of the panel trap being trimmed in oak (note the clamps)
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000399.jpg

And with a "done" stamp:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000416.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000415.jpg

Next Project will be low voltage / low profile / lighted poster box for the stairwell landing, that's in the entry path to our HT. With a little luck this will also feature the entry ticket booth artwork (I think China-dog provided the original version of the artwork). I started a thread over on the theater accessories forum

Still digging the SVS - Table edition.

NicksHitachi

02-07-12, 01:25 PM

Still digging the SVS - Table edition.

Haha i missed that, nice.

cuzed2

02-07-12, 05:02 PM

RTROSE

02-07-12, 06:51 PM

Thanks Guys - looking to upgrade the "Table Edition".
I hope it will go like this:

A) already have one 16-46 PC plus with a 12.3 driver (front right)
B) I have a 20-39 w/separate amp and a 12.3 driver (front left)
C) The rear table edition is using a lowly 12.1 driver and a lowly 275 watt amp

Looking to replace B with another matching 16-46 PC plus
That frees up a 12.3 driver and one amp channel to hop up the rear table edition :)

Now that sounds like a plan. I know those 16-46's dig very deep for sure.

Nicely done on the back panel, looks super sharp for sure.

Now you need a new graph since that panel is installed right? ;)

Regards,

RTROSE

queendvd2

02-07-12, 08:09 PM

Panel looks great cuz! Nice work.

cuzed2

02-07-12, 09:26 PM

Thanks (also for coming around these parts) !

Wazzey

02-07-12, 11:46 PM

Theater keeps looking better. Do you notice sound improvements with your new panel?

Brad Horstkotte

02-07-12, 11:53 PM

That is a very nice pink panel Ed. :p

KIDDING, looks really sharp.

warrenP

02-08-12, 02:49 PM

Looks good... and so... when's the meet? I already told my better half that you were having a meet soon. ;)

cuzed2

02-08-12, 07:49 PM

Theater keeps looking better. Do you notice sound improvements with your new panel?

Wazzey,
I think there is a "slight practical improvement", still listening to real material and trying to decide

cuzed2

02-08-12, 07:50 PM

Looks good... and so... when's the meet? I already told my better half that you were having a meet soon. ;)

Still in the "calendar/planning stage". Have this thing called ACT tests and spring break college planning visits to schedule - please hang in there a bit longer :)

cuzed2

02-08-12, 07:51 PM

That is a very nice pink panel Ed. :p

KIDDING, looks really sharp.

Someday - I will host a meet, and in person you will see the color is better :) :)

RTROSE

02-08-12, 09:00 PM

Road trip!!!!!! Yeee haw!

Regards,

RTROSE

warrenP

02-08-12, 11:16 PM

Still in the "calendar/planning stage". Have this thing called ACT tests and spring break college planning visits to schedule - please hang in there a bit longer :)

No worries Craig, just having fun. Although I heard a rumor that one of the CAVE members is moving to Colorado this Summer so it can't be too late.

Actually I just want a reason to have that salad again. ;) :)

Brad Horstkotte

02-08-12, 11:30 PM

Road trip!!!!!! Yeee haw!

Regards,

RTROSE

Can you pick me up on the way if its not too much of an inconvenience?

Iusteve

02-09-12, 04:17 AM

^ I can swing by and get you Brad, not a problem at all.

RTROSE

02-09-12, 11:22 AM

^ I can swing by and get you Brad, not a problem at all.

What a GUY! :D Not like it's out of your way or anything.

Regards,

RTROSE

Brad Horstkotte

02-09-12, 12:08 PM

All part of the tri state area right? Illinois, Indiana, California?

Iusteve

02-09-12, 01:19 PM

That's what they taught me in world geography at my trusty high school anyway.

RTROSE

02-09-12, 04:06 PM

That's what they taught me in world geography at my trusty high school anyway.

Gotta love public school! :D

The three R's readin', rightin', n' rithmatic. Don't see no geograwhatiscalled?

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

02-09-12, 04:55 PM

Excellent - if we can get Iowa included > all the important states will be represented !!
Brad you will be in charge of bringing sunshine and surfer girls

Brad Horstkotte

02-09-12, 05:12 PM

Packing up the van now...

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/0827/as_surf_girls_van_550.jpg

cuzed2

02-09-12, 05:22 PM

Perfect - Now that's an RV I wouldn't mind keeping around..!!

Iusteve

02-09-12, 05:46 PM

Oh goody I will bring the "Midwestern" girls.............

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ezUKht0diJI/TlNjyrzYXtI/AAAAAAAAEAE/rzFM3IxBpQg/s400/fat_girls.jpg

Also thought i'd post a picture of the last excursion Brad, myself and RT took..................

http://freerangeinternational.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/3-amigos-600x386.jpg

In case you wondered RT is the little guy on the left

RTROSE

02-09-12, 07:17 PM

Oh, my what a derailment this has started. Whew! I'm not so sure about those "Midwestern" girls. I have heard of "Corn Fed" but that is taking it to the next level. As for being the "Little Guy" well if you ever meet me you'll see, I have been called many things but "Little Guy" is not one of them. LOL I can only imagine how much fun we would have getting together. It would be a blast for sure!

Too Funny.

Regards,

RTROSE

hanesian

02-09-12, 07:34 PM

ROAD TRIP!!!

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/hanesian/GIFs/inp1.gif

I'm in! ;)

warrenP

02-09-12, 09:47 PM

... LOL I can only imagine how much fun we would have getting together. It would be a blast for sure! ...

+1 We need more here in the Midwest. I've had so much fun meeting other HT people from all over, but it seems we don't have much here... I'd look forward to meeting many of you in person, always a great time!

Hope it happens! :)

cuzed2

02-10-12, 09:34 PM

At this point, I'm thinking April .. ?

cuzed2

02-11-12, 08:53 AM

warrenP

02-11-12, 10:56 AM

At this point, I'm thinking April .. ?

April I'll be in CO looking at real estate.... I don't want to miss the only IL event in years!

Brad Horstkotte

02-11-12, 11:34 AM

Iusteve,
The brave gentlemen in the bottom photo are invited and are MOST welcome.

I'm going to have to scour for business related conferences around that time in Chicago...

jayn_j

02-11-12, 12:46 PM

ROAD TRIP!!!

http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr79/hanesian/GIFs/inp1.gif

I'm in! ;)

Cool. Pick me up on your way through Milwaukee. ;)

cuzed2

02-11-12, 05:05 PM

jayn_j,

Assuming this comes together your welcome to join!

cuzed2

02-13-12, 11:17 AM

Started a separate thread for my next winter project; a low profile/low voltage/lighted poster box, lots of alternative suggestions and inputs located here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=21630406#post21630406

cuzed2

02-20-12, 09:25 AM

So here's the results of my first day's work:

While at my local mill-work shop picking out my hardwood trim I spotted this 1.5" thick particle board stair tread riser (perfect thickness to accommodate the depth of my light-box, and was cheap). Ripped it to the appropriate width and away we go.
This thing has to be as square as possible.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000424.jpg

Here's what I decided for the frame profile, two different styles of Oak trim glued up as shown here
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000427.jpg

And with the Spotlight frame positioned (not yet sure if I will be going gold or black). Gold may be a bit overpowering, where the black might look like a matting surrounding the poster:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000429.jpg

jayn_j

02-20-12, 12:53 PM

Looks promising. How do you plan to trim out the outside edges?

cuzed2

02-20-12, 07:16 PM

Looks promising. How do you plan to trim out the outside edges?

Will likely go with a band of Oak Veneer trim

cuzed2

02-22-12, 11:25 AM

Another update: Got a chance to install the LED strip lights, here it is with 3 strips (900 Leds), of the intended 4.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/Ledsoff.jpg

And with 3 (of 4) illuminated:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/Ledson.jpg

My fourth string was added temporarily for this proof photo (unfortunately it is temporary, because it is the warm color instead of bright white, need to place another order).
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/LedsOn-diffusor-poster.jpg
If you look closely you will see a faint border just inside the frame edges. This faint border is the outline of my "undersized/temporary" diffusor panel. These LED strips are really intense (as opposed to the rope style). Therefore; it will be necessary to add a cheap diffusor panel against the backside of the artwork.

jayn_j

02-22-12, 12:53 PM

I am impressed. I need to look into replacing the rope with these strips.

zamboniman

02-22-12, 01:07 PM

nice work.... you should crank out a few more not that the jigs are built :) lol

cuzed2

02-22-12, 01:14 PM

I was worried that they might be hard to work with. However; they are all pre-attached to a very sticky 3M backing tape, and were flexible enough to make the u-turns at the end of the box. The 4th strip (warm color - temporary), was used to finish off the upper right corner, I then ran it around the inside perimeter of the frame.

What you see in the photo is spaced on 1.5" centers. If I were to do it over I would go with a 1" or 1.25" spacing in order to squeeze all 4 strips directly onto the backer board, skipping doing the perimeter.

As for powering them, my little 2amp switching supply is doing the job, but after several hours was a bit warmer than I would like (might have to located a higher output PS)

cuzed2

02-22-12, 01:20 PM

nice work.... you should crank out a few more not that the jigs are built :) lol

Thanks! 3 is the sweet spot for cost, A 4x8 sheet of stock would allow for 3 units with minimal waste (ie. the thick frame of particle board, and for a diffuser panel).

However; This will likely be a one off (collectible), just like the SVS pub-table :)

warrenP

02-22-12, 01:42 PM

nice work.... you should crank out a few more not that the jigs are built :) lol

I agree... A new company is born! :)

RTROSE

02-24-12, 07:36 PM

Craig,

The lighted poster box is the fa shizzle my nizzle dude very nice! I'm with Warren here. I think a LLC is in your future. Who knows you could be the Mark Zuckerberg of the poster box world.

Can't wait to see the finished product.

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

02-24-12, 08:59 PM

Craig,

Mark Zuckerberg of the poster box world.Can't wait to see the finished product.
RTROSE

Thanks RT
Yikes! I wasn't scared till now!!

warrenP

02-27-12, 10:49 PM

... Who knows you could be the Mark Zuckerberg of the poster box world.
...

Does that make us the guys who will jealously sue later? ;)

RTROSE

02-28-12, 07:19 PM

Does that make us the guys who will jealously sue later? ;)

I'm game if you are. Does this mean we're twins? :eek:

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

03-13-12, 03:06 PM

Wow - Take one week off for business trip, return home sick, one week to recoup, and found out this thread "free-fell" to page 4. Actually not to tease; but I'm within one week of posting my lighted poster-box, ticket-window "finished photos" :)

queendvd2

03-18-12, 09:07 PM

RTROSE

03-18-12, 09:20 PM

^^^^^Oh, SNAP! Queen is calling you out Craig!

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

03-20-12, 11:07 AM

Queen/RT,

Thanks you both for holding me to a "proof of progress" update. I am sorting out my best photos now, and will post soon, I promise..... :)

cuzed2

03-20-12, 11:20 AM

cuzed2

03-20-12, 11:39 AM

So you may recall I chose to go from 3 strings and 900 Leds, to 4 strings (1200 total).
Here is the result with 4 strings:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000475.jpg

I then added a hidden switch to the underside edge, lower RH corner.
The apparatus I cobbled together as a feed thru thru the frame:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000473.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000476.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000490.jpg

Next up was to obtain a proper diffusor. The spotlight frame comes with 2 thin plastic sheets that you sandwich the poster between. For my diffusor I substituted the back clear sheet with a 1/16" thick sheet of white acrylic material:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000484.jpg

Here's the illumination with and w/o the diffusor:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000477.jpg

A few shadows from the internal wiring - these shadows seem to disappear when a poster in in place
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000478.jpg

Before showing the final result mounted on the wall, this is my landing before:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/LandingPhotos.jpg

And afterwards:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000511.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000510.jpg

Probably about the darkest poster that I will ever display
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000508.jpg

And with a lighter color poster:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000485.jpg

And this is still a work in progress. Pretty sure that "ChinaDog" was the one who did the original ticketbooth artwork. I had a friend photoshop/merge a photo into the ticket booth. Consider this version 1 (it's washed out) until I find the perfect stock to print version 2 onto.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/CuzznEddyticketbooth.jpg

RTROSE

03-20-12, 01:31 PM

Man that turned out AWESOME! Nicely done. I think going with the 1200 LED's vs. the 900 was a very wise choice. I don't think it would have had the same effect otherwise.

You should be very proud of your efforts.

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

03-20-12, 01:39 PM

Thanks RT - it was a fun project! The photos in that dimly lit stairwell don't do it justice. I am normally a bit of a "wood butcher", but in this case I got lucky and the pieces came together with a reasonably nice fit. And when finished; I ended up having a unique & affordable light box in the style of my choosing. At this point I am afraid I may have used up a lot of my "honey-do list, good-will", seems other non-theater househould projects are now in high-demand :)

hanesian

03-20-12, 04:00 PM

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/CuzznEddyticketbooth.jpg

What a dapper looking couple. Tried to sneak that one by us, didn'tcha Craig? :cool:

cuzed2

03-20-12, 05:03 PM

Busted !!

queendvd2

03-21-12, 12:23 PM

WOW :eek:! Looks awesome (and I did think to myself - I bet it looks way better than the picture even shows). Painstaking work but just think of the smile every time you descend into the theater.

cuzed2

03-21-12, 03:38 PM

Thanks Queen!
Yeah - I am now wondering what I was thinking when I put up those original "cheezy" tin celebrity signs :)

RTROSE

03-21-12, 04:01 PM

Well the photo I see is a classy lady to the left and to the right well he looks shady to me IMO......Is that sawdust I see on that Tux?

Now about that Honey do list.......Since the weather broke a little early seems I'm in the same boat as you so I'll have to do most of the tweaking in the theater "on my own time". Good luck with all of your other projects, usually none of which are as fun as theater projects.

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

03-21-12, 05:09 PM

RT,

Back at you; in moving your Honey-Do lists outside. With mid-west weather like this; how can we possibly complain :)
(unless of course we are like IUSteve, and his "umbrella drink / swimming pool worries")

GCS

03-23-12, 07:33 PM

Looks great and I intend to "steal" your idea, LOL.

One dumb LED question -- if I order 3 sets of the 300 LED strips do these just attach to each other do I need some sort of coupler. And if I grab the 12v 5a switching power supply adapter do I need anything to attach to the LED strips? (Sorry never messed with these things).

Also may I ask what size you made your "boxes" to attach the frames to?

Thanks

Greg

cuzed2

03-26-12, 09:25 AM

GCS,
Thanks for the feedback. As for connecting these - I preferred to solder and shrink-tube my connections. However; as an alternative you could use crimp connections (readily available at any hardware or auto supply store). Here's an example:
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/5200/BUTT-CONNECTOR-BLUE/1.html

As for the size of the light box. The box was actually a frame that was 1.5" thick. The outside dimensions of the narrow spotlight frame was 28.75" wide x 41.75" tall.
I added extra width to allow for the oak trim. Therefore the total outside dimensions of my finished unit was 34" wide x 47" tall (my finished trim combo was 2 5/8" wide per side)

cuzed2

04-17-12, 01:43 PM

That's the song I was hearing when I went looking for my thread. Found it way back on page 3. Not a bad thing, just means I am watching more and working /updating less :)

That said; I will post some photos to update my latest little project, I will apologize in advance if the text is a bit thin, the photos should tell the rest of the story. If not, ask away .....

cuzed2

04-17-12, 01:53 PM

Before Photos (a dark stairwell):
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000573.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000552.jpg

After Photos, a less-dark stairwell:
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000571.jpg

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000572.jpg

and notice at the top left of this photo, my poster light box on the left; provides lighting from the landing up to the very top of the stairwell
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000578.jpg

Started with a 9' length of 1.75" Oak railing.
1) cut a flat down the length (this provides a flat surface for the rail brackets to screw into.
2) then used a dado blade to cut a groove for the LED strip lights
3) Cut a taper on the ends so that I could install a nice end-cap for a finished look
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000563-1.jpg

cuzed2

04-17-12, 01:59 PM

Here's the end where the connection was made. Drilled a .75" hole in the end - this is where the splice was pushed in and hidden, prior to gluing on the end caps. The end cap is a 1.5" copper end cap that was painted with a satin black automotive valve cover paint (this VHT paint provides a wrinkle finish when it is baked at 200F for several hours)
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd153/cuzed2/P1000567.jpg

The railing is powered by the same 12volt brick that powers my light box (in the EQ "room" under the stair landing).

So; I dare anyone to point me to another powered stair railing anywhere in this forum :) :)

brausch

04-17-12, 03:41 PM

Wow, that looks great! Where is your power wire run? Along one of the rail supports I assume?

RTROSE

04-17-12, 04:38 PM

That is very cool. Talk about thinking out of the box. Truly a unique idea and slick instal. Well done.

First the sub table, then the lighted poster box, now a lighted handrail? What's next for you Mr. Wizard?

Regards,

RTROSE

cuzed2

04-17-12, 04:38 PM

Brian,

I drilled a small (1/8" or 3/16") hole thru the wall-side flange on one of the railing brackets.

The railing brackets have a pretty good size circular diameter where they mount against the wall. I just drilled midway between the center hole and the edge. And "strategically" positioned the bracket so that the center mounting screw would go into the stud, and the wiring hole would just skirt the edge of the stud. I then used black shrink-tube for this portion of the wire feed , and then pulled the wiring thru from under the stairs. Hope that made sense... ?

cuzed2

04-17-12, 04:40 PM

Brian,
I drilled a small (1/8" or 3/16") hole thru the wall-side flange on one of the railing brackets.

Sorry - it was a 1/4", had to allow for the added "girth" of the shrink tube

brausch

04-18-12, 07:49 AM