I've seen both at BB and CC, which as we know is a terrible environment to see any TV in. However, neither were close enough to compare accurately.

So, to those that have shopped around and had these two in their final pool, which did you go with, and why? I'll be using the TV for PS3/Blu Ray and HD cable. However, about 50% of my viewing will still be SD.

Does the resolution difference mean much in this comparison, since by all accounts the Pio 8g's are the best 720p displays ever.

Thank You

The resolution difference doe not mean much in this comparison, however the 1080P Samsung will take you into the future as the 5080 is still only 720P. I feel these units handle SD content about the same. If you are really conserned about SD I would recommend the NEC PX-50XR6A, they handle this format like no other......

If you want to be happy go with the 5080HD :)

My buddy has the 5080HD and it's no slouch but he does have two pixels dead in a very short short time of use...Pretty scary.
The samsung 5084 won my attention with a brilliant sharp picture , excellent color and 24 month factory warranty .Blueray and 1080P are the ticket and samsung delivers.


30 day return policy comes mighty handy :)
If you want to be really happy test both sets at home keeping the one that works for you.

My buddy has the 5080HD and it's no slouch but he does have two pixels dead in a very short short time of use...Pretty scary.
The samsung 5084 won my attention with a brilliant sharp picture and excellent color.Blueray and 1080P are the ticket and samsung delivers.


30 day return policy comes mighty handy :)
If you want to be really happy test both sets at home keeping the one that works for you.

WOW

My buddy has the 5080HD and it's no slouch but he does have two pixels dead in a very short short time of use...Pretty scary.
The samsung 5084 won my attention with a brilliant sharp picture and excellent color.Blueray and 1080P are the ticket and samsung delivers.


30 day return policy comes mighty handy :)
If you want to be really happy test both sets at home keeping the one that works for you.
hi, i'm trying to decide between and lcd ( Samsung lcd lnt-4665f ) or plasma(Samsung FPT5084) sets, searching the net i find a lots of reviews about 4465f but not about 5084, some people says that 5084 has a better image than 4665f, but i'm worried about plasma lifespan and burn image issue. Please can you give me any advice about which set I mustchoose?. I'm planning to use the set with blu-ray and ps3 games. Regards

I did not think that CC carried the Pioneer 5080HD, or even any pioneer plasmas. Do they?

I did not think that CC carried the Pioneer 5080HD, or even any pioneer plasmas. Do they?

Nope :)

hi, i'm trying to decide between and lcd ( Samsung lcd lnt-4665f ) or plasma(Samsung FPT5084) sets, searching the net i find a lots of reviews about 4465f but not about 5084, some people says that 5084 has a better image than 4665f, but i'm worried about plasma lifespan and burn image issue. Please can you give me any advice about which set I mustchoose?. I'm planning to use the set with blu-ray and ps3 games. Regards
Most plasma owners will recommend the 5084. If you are used to and like the "look" of a traditional CRT then you'll like the look of a plasma. I wouldn't view lifespan or burn-in questions as any significant factor in your decision unless you expect to use the set in some very non-standard way (such as primarily as a computer monitor). Happy shopping!

Review on nthe FP-T5084 <<<Click Here>>> (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=845512)

hi, i'm trying to decide between and lcd ( Samsung lcd lnt-4665f ) or plasma(Samsung FPT5084) sets, searching the net i find a lots of reviews about 4465f but not about 5084, some people says that 5084 has a better image than 4665f, but i'm worried about plasma lifespan and burn image issue. Please can you give me any advice about which set I mustchoose?. I'm planning to use the set with blu-ray and ps3 games. RegardsI prefer Plasma because better color with no motion blur is the key to my happness. Samsung has fixed much of that in there LCD 71 series but the 5084 kicks that to the curve.

The Plasma life span and screen Burn.
when you own a plasma you must break it in with lower contrast and brightness settings Staying away form side bars and static images such a video gaming for the first 200 hours..What really nice about samsung is they have screen burn protection features so no worries there.Just break it in and don't abuse it and you are fine .The 5084 color setting are just about perfect out of the box...No joke

When it come to little to no 5084 reviews... Ive felt your pain.My wake up call was
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11374222&postcount=432

I made the leap and have no regreat.The 5084 Rocks !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE IT

In case OP has not seen this one, the review of the Pioneer PDP-5080HD:
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-and-plasma/pioneer-pdp-5080hd/4505-6482_7-32476901.html?tag=tpr

In case OP has not seen this one, the review of the Pioneer PDP-5080HD:
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-and-plasma/pioneer-pdp-5080hd/4505-6482_7-32476901.html?tag=tpr

Its wonderful :)

I started out by scratching plasma off the
list because, "them screens are shiney,
they burn in, and they don't last long"
(or so I thought).

Then I decided I wanted me one of them
there RPTV"S. That one has a mighty
good picture dudn't it ? But, then --
What the hell happened to that picture
when I lost my place on the couch ???
Heck with that.

Well shoot, gimme one of those big panel
LCD's man. WTF ! Banding and screen blur
on my football games ! Crap !

What's that you say ? They have fancy non-glare
glass on plasma's now ? They fixed those burn-in
problems ? They are rated at 50,000 hours now ??

Heck, I always thought they looked best !

Gimme that there SamSangASong 5084 !!


That's about how it went here in South Texas over
a 2 week period once I decided to buy a TV and
started looking them over. And researching them.

good luck with your new purchase, dxr

To be honest with you the 5084 looked great, I think the 5080 has an excellent picture, but the 5084 looks equally as good. If you have a PC, I would go 5084. However, the 5080 is a good choice.

Chris

5080 if you want the best picture out now. Samsung if you want to save cash. If you choose the later. May I suggest you never see a 5080 plasma in a dark room because buyer's remorse may set in.

P.S. if you want to save even more cash... check out the 768p equivalent of the Samsung. 5064. Make sure 1080p is noticeable to you beyond just comparing the numbers 768p and 1080p.

5080 if you want the best picture out now. Samsung if you want to save cash. If you choose the later. May I suggest you never see a 5080 plasma in a dark room because buyer's remorse may set in.

P.S. if you want to save even more cash... check out the 768p equivalent of the Samsung. 5064. Make sure 1080p is noticeable to you beyond just comparing the numbers 768p and 1080p.hehehe interesting take on how to save money or maybe lose money
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11421817#post11421817

those pretty green lines give those pixels a work out :(

P.S
The reason I bring that post up is that my buddy has delay HDMI hand shake when changing channels from 720p to 1080i with his 5080 and experiences the same color lines sometimes.He also has two dead pixels in that general area of his screen.He's running DTV HR20 700 series.
When I owned the samsung 5054 which is equivalent of the 5064 it had the judder issue with HDMI delay as well...No green lines though.
The Samsung 5084 doesn't judder or have HDMI channel delay with pretty green lines.
The choices we make to keep the green in are pockets can really pay off :)

It will be interesting to see if Samsung ever comes close to the PQ of Pioneer

It will be interesting to see if Samsung ever comes close to the PQ of Pioneer

That depends on one's perspective. Some might say the clarity of the PQ seen on Samsungs has yet to be matched by Pioneer.

That depends on one's perspective. Some might say the clarity of the PQ seen on Samsungs has yet to be matched by Pioneer.

Yes... by Samsung plasma owners.

That depends on one's perspective. Some might say the clarity of the PQ seen on Samsungs has yet to be matched by Pioneer.

"Some might say". Now there is a profound insight, etched in Jello!.

If you want to be happy go with the 5080HD :)

What this gentleman said! :)

30 day return policy comes mighty handy :)
If you want to be really happy test both sets at home keeping the one that works for you.

Great idea. :rolleyes: If everyone did that we'd either have no return policies anywhere or 50" TVs that cost $10,000.

To be honest with you the 5084 looked great, I think the 5080 has an excellent picture, but the 5084 looks equally as good. If you have a PC, I would go 5084. However, the 5080 is a good choice.

Chris

The 5080 black levels will trump the 5084. That quality alone will set the 5080 apart from all others. There is no substitute for superb black levels and the role they play in producing the best picture possible. This is why virtually all reviews of the new Pioneers are callinig them the best flat panels ever...one even going so far as to say possibly the best TV ever. ;)

hehehe interesting take on how to save money or maybe lose money
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11421817#post11421817

those pretty green lines give those pixels a work out :(

P.S
The reason I bring that post up is that my buddy has delay HDMI hand shake when changing channels from 720p to 1080i with his 5080 and experiences the same color lines sometimes.He also has two dead pixels in that general area of his screen.He's running DTV HR20 700 series.
When I owned the samsung 5054 which is equivalent of the 5064 it had the judder issue with HDMI delay as well...No green lines though.
The Samsung 5084 doesn't judder or have HDMI channel delay with pretty green lines.
The choices we make to keep the green in are pockets can really pay off :)

You are incorrect and this is nothing more than FUD. I already posted in the thread you referenced and I'll repeat that here so there are no misunderstandings as to what actually causes this issue with ANY display.

"This is an unavoidable occurrence when a set-top-box is set to 'native'. The box and display must resynch whenever you tune from one channel of one resolution to a different one with a different resolution.

ALL TVs do this! There is nothing wrong with your Pioneer. If you want to avoid this issue, do what I do, set your box to a constant 1080i output and you'll have fast channel surfing. I've been doing it for years since I got tired of that resynching with my Fujitsus and always felt it couldn't help prolong longevity in the display."

Now in reality it may make no impact on display longevity, but all TVs do this and it's been discussed many many times on AVS. It's also one of the reasons many people do set their box to a constant resolution output, 720p or 1080i.

If you want to be happy go with the 5080HD :)
One will be "happy" with any of these TVs as long as the one you select has the specific features that you're looking for and/or need. That's not to say that other makes have an equivalent PQ to the Pioneer 5080HD but they are still very very good.

You are incorrect and this is nothing more than FUD. I already posted in the thread you referenced and I'll repeat that here so there are no misunderstandings as to what actually causes this issue with ANY display.

"This is an unavoidable occurrence when a set-top-box is set to 'native'. The box and display must resynch whenever you tune from one channel of one resolution to a different one with a different resolution.

ALL TVs do this! There is nothing wrong with your Pioneer. If you want to avoid this issue, do what I do, set your box to a constant 1080i output and you'll have fast channel surfing. I've been doing it for years since I got tired of that resynching with my Fujitsus and always felt it couldn't help prolong longevity in the display."

Now in reality it may make no impact on display longevity, but all TVs do this and it's been discussed many many times on AVS. It's also one of the reasons many people do set their box to a constant resolution output, 720p or 1080i.I guess You could call the delay normal but how about the color lines that more then a few observe when changing channel with resolution change with the pion 5080...That is no FUD ???...That should not happen.
The Samsung 5084 has NO hdmi delay running DTV HR20 native(on) or color lines so I would call that fantastic :)

I guess You could call the delay normal but how about the color lines that more then a few observe when changing channel with resolution change with the pion 5080...That is no FUD ???...That should not happen.
The Samsung 5084 has NO hdmi delay running DTV HR20 on native or color lines so I would call that fantastic :)

Is this indicitive of every 5080 display? Or is it just one isolated incident?

I totally agree! We will not buy an 5084 and 5080 and compare the two within our household. The chances of that happening is 1 to 10. Yes the 5080 has clean picture and colors are very accurate, but I would not discount the 5084, nor the 700U/750U. Again I will reiterate if you have a PC to get full res from HDMI to DVI from your video card, 1080p is a better solution than a 768p. So it depends on what people want to use it for...

Chris

One will be "happy" with any of these TVs as long as the one you select has the specific features that you're looking for and/or need. That's not to say that other makes have an equivalent PQ to the Pioneer 5080HD but they are still very very good.

One will be "happy" with any of these TVs as long as the one you select has the specific features that you're looking for and/or need. That's not to say that other makes have an equivalent PQ to the Pioneer 5080HD but they are still very very good.

It all depends on how dark your room is. You may not have a 5080 right next to your Samsung 1080p plasma but if you darken your room, the Samsung, like any older plasma will have a gray nasty glow to it. This glow bugs the hell out of me. Granted a 5080 in the complete darkness will still glow. But in certain dim lighting, you can get the 5080 to look like its all too close to being perfect black.

Samsungs can only achieve this by brightening the room to a 'daytime TV" situation. And even then it'll look pretty gray because the plasma screen material itself is gray!

You will have something to compare the blacks to. The Samsung plasma bezel is black. The blacks rendered on screen are much much brighter than that reference.

Threads, asking for selection preferences, all finish up the same way. Just do your homework on all the sets that you are considering. Read the owners threads, and the professional reviews. Become informed on which settings will make each display look it's best in the store settings and light conditions. Make sure that you go to stores that allow you to try those settings, and then pick the one that fits your needs from a viewing and financial perspective. Good luck.:)

Threads, asking for selection preferences, all finish up the same way. Just do your homework on all the sets that you are considering. Read the owners threads, and the professional reviews. Become informed on which settings will make each display look it's best in the store settings and light conditions. Make sure that you go to stores that allow you to try those settings, and then pick the one that fits your needs from a viewing and financial perspective. Good luck.:)

Yep. :)

And more than most accounts an awesome black level will beat the biggest farce of a PQ placebo we know.

1920 by 1080 pixels! Woohoo.

Is this indicitive of every 5080 display? Or is it just one isolated incident?

Good question Johnny, but I wonder if it makes any difference. When I had tried "native" on various STBs I've had with my Fujitsu, you'd see all kinds of weird flashes, colors, noise etc. I again don't think this is unique to Pioneers, but rather just a function of how a given TV responds to this synch issue. If it was doing damage, that would be another thing.

The bottom line for me was that SD looked poor no matter how you processed it, so why should I go through 'native' when I can just output a constant 1080i and have no lag time?

To me this is a non-issue.

Good question Johnny, but I wonder if it makes any difference. When I had tried "native" on various STBs I've had with my Fujitsu, you'd see all kinds of weird flashes, colors, noise etc. I again don't think this is unique to Pioneers, but rather just a function of how a given TV responds to this synch issue. If it was doing damage, that would be another thing.

The bottom line for me was that SD looked poor no matter how you processed it, so why should I go through 'native' when I can just output a constant 1080i and have no lag time?

To me this is a non-issue.

It is a nonissue. But for those who wants the Pioneer to scale... I guess it may be an issue. Thing is all my TVs, even my Samsungs go a bit nuts when I switch to 'native'. It'll pop crackle... and walaa, 720p or 1080i into the TV set.

Is this indicitive of every 5080 display? Or is it just one isolated incident?You got me on that one.My brah called Pioneer and they told him the hdmi delay with color lines across is a norm at times.
I just don't buy the color lines being the norm man.that makes no freakin sense...Something is wrong there in the hdmi.Maybe a bad day on the assembly line or something :confused:

It is a nonissue. But for those who wants the Pioneer to scale... I guess it may be an issue. Thing is all my TVs, even my Samsungs go a bit nuts when I switch to 'native'. It'll pop crackle... and walaa, 720p or 1080i into the TV set.My 5084 does not do the snap crackel pop yet the 5054 did.Maybe samsung so it seems made strides to fix that problem.The 5084 channel changes on resoltion is near to perfect with no delay.It,s pretty amazing really.

My list of sets within the last 7 weeks
CC was loving me lol
Samsung 42" Plasma HDTV (HP-T4254)=My First plasma ever.
Panasonic 42" Plasma HDTV (TH-42PX75U) =Upgrade
Panasonic 50" Plasma HDTV (TH-50PX75U) =Upgrade
Samsung 50" Plasma HDTV (HP-T5054)=Upgrade/screen off center..exchanged for new one below.
Samsung 50" Plasma HDTV (HP-T5054)=upgrade to 5084

And at last the keeper.
Samsung 50" Plasma HDTV (FP-T5084)
And oh yeah I cant forget the Samsung Blu-ray Disc Player (BD-1200)
hehehe CC package deal...It's worth a view ;)

My 5084 does not do the snap crackel pop yet the 5054 did.Maybe samsung so it seems made strides to fix that problem.The 5084 channel changes on resoltion is near to perfect with no delay.It,s pretty amazing really.

My list of sets within the last 7 weeks

Samsung 42" Plasma HDTV (HP-T4254)=My First plasma ever.
Panasonic 42" Plasma HDTV (TH-42PX75U) =Upgrade
Panasonic 50" Plasma HDTV (TH-50PX75U) =Upgrade
Samsung 50" Plasma HDTV (HP-T5054)=Upgrade/screen off center..exchanged for new one below.
Samsung 50" Plasma HDTV (HP-T5054)=upgrade to 5084

And at last the keeper.
Samsung 50" Plasma HDTV (FP-T5084)
And oh yeah I cant forget the Samsung Blu-ray Disc Player (BD-1200)
hehehe CC package deal...It's worth a view ;)

Must be magic or something. :) Maybe HDMI has great strides... or DVRs are getting better. Mine will always delay regardless of what the display is doing.

Must be magic or something. :) Maybe HDMI has great strides... or DVRs are getting better. Mine will always delay regardless of what the display is doing.
hehe i was thinking magic as well :)
Seeing all the sets ive owned in post above in the last 7 weeks having hdmi delay then finding the 5084 not to have delay= Real Deal :D

P.S for all scratching there heads.
hdmi Delay = when changing channel from different resolutions you see the HDMI Search box displayed then picture appears.

samsung is famous for their color accuracy. the new 5080 will demolish the samsung in black levels, tho. Don't forget that the 5084 also has no overscan a 1080p/i with just scan mode. I'm not sure about how accurate either set is greyscale wise.

"Some might say". Now there is a profound insight, etched in Jello!.

If you're lookind for profound, this aint the place to look. I certainly can't recall anything you've written that's etched in my memory.
Oops nevermind, I keep forgetting not to insult Pioneer around here. Wouldn't want you fundamentalist to get your panties in a bunch.

I've seen both together in a room playing MI3 on blu-ray. Both sets were callibrated and after 3 hours of viewing I bought the Sammy 5084. I have always loved the pioneers since seeing the fhd1 but when viewing both side by side, the sammy 5084 actually appeared to have a black level that was as good as the pio but the colors and shadow detail were actually better than the pioneer! The 1080p res did make a difference imo and thats what made the sammy better. I was offered the pio for the lower price than the sammy but the sammy was worth the extra price imo.

I live in Canada btw so the sammy msrp here is a lot more than in the us :(

I've seen both together in a room playing MI3 on blu-ray. Both sets were callibrated and after 3 hours of viewing I bought the Sammy 5084. I have always loved the pioneers since seeing the fhd1 but when viewing both side by side, the sammy 5084 actually appeared to have a black level that was as good as the pio but the colors and shadow detail were actually better than the pioneer! The 1080p res did make a difference imo and thats what made the sammy better. I was offered the pio for the lower price than the sammy but the sammy was worth the extra price imo.

I live in Canada btw so the sammy msrp here is a lot more than in the us :(

You just commited blasphemy! Obviously your eyes need to be checked. Everyone knows that the Pioneer PQ is clearly superior :cool:

You just commited blasphemy! Obviously your eyes need to be checked. Everyone knows that the Pioneer PQ is clearly superior :cool:
Those darn Pioneer fundamentalist .There calling another member- samsung owner incompetent of choosing the best looking set.Maybe they need the glasses

You just commited blasphemy! Obviously your eyes need to be checked. Everyone knows that the Pioneer PQ is clearly superior :cool:I was thinking that too when I first saw them but even the people in the room watching seemed to agree. Like I said before, I love the Pioneers and I would've loved to get the 5080 but believe me the 5084 IS BETTER! I'll go as far as saying it's even better than the fhd1! I used to think that sammy made inferior plasma's to pio and panny but that viewing yesterday completely changed my mind. I would seriously recommend this tv over the 5080 especially since it's so much cheaper in the us.

Now im not saying that sammy is better than ALL of the Pioneers, im sure the 1080p sets would crush the 5084 but the price difference is quite steep.

See I was all set on the 5080 but now reading the praise the 5084 is getting I'm back with another dilemma.

I guess I will need to take D-Nice's settings for the 5080 and some settings for the 5084 down to a Best Buy and see for myself which one I like the best. Are there some settings for the 5084 on the forum anywhere?

See I was all set on the 5080 but now reading the praise the 5084 is getting I'm back with another dilemma.

I guess I will need to take D-Nice's settings for the 5080 and some settings for the 5084 down to a Best Buy and see for myself which one I like the best. Are there some settings for the 5084 on the forum anywhere?
hehehe good luck trying to find settings for the 84 for it,s hard to find a review which I find very odd.What many of us 84 owners did was take it out of the box and set it to standard mode and was blown away by the outstanding picture quality .The color detail , shadow effect are truly amazing.I can see the blacks being a little below the 5080 yet the overall picture on the 84 makes up for it two times over.
I don't hate Pioneer as stated earlier in this thread but I'm not going buy nonsense from there cheerleaders.

Try this thread.Keep in mind the picture at top of thread is not the 84
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=845512

Same thread page #15 .Valuable info from TomHuffman about the 84
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=845512&page=15

I was thinking that too when I first saw them but even the people in the room watching seemed to agree. Like I said before, I love the Pioneers and I would've loved to get the 5080 but believe me the 5084 IS BETTER! I'll go as far as saying it's even better than the fhd1! I used to think that sammy made inferior plasma's to pio and panny but that viewing yesterday completely changed my mind. I would seriously recommend this tv over the 5080 especially since it's so much cheaper in the us.

Now im not saying that sammy is better than ALL of the Pioneers, im sure the 1080p sets would crush the 5084 but the price difference is quite steep.

Cool Mr. Sony. :) Great idea. I will also love to continue to advertise TVs with horrible black levels... okay maybe not horrible but 'so-so'.

See I was all set on the 5080 but now reading the praise the 5084 is getting I'm back with another dilemma.

I guess I will need to take D-Nice's settings for the 5080 and some settings for the 5084 down to a Best Buy and see for myself which one I like the best. Are there some settings for the 5084 on the forum anywhere?

This is the easiest test in the world. It might take a little work but this is your best bet. You have two choices.

A) Get the Pioneer 5080 and enjoy.

B) Get the Samsung.. bring it home. Turn down the lights. Look at the contrast and black levels on screen. If that's good enough for you... keep it and be happy. You got 1080p on the cheap! Now false contouring, dithering noise, are other effects you might or may not see.

If you're not happy with those blacks, return it and get a 5080 which outperforms a Samsung handily in that regard. When Samsung has an CCFL backlit LCD (65 or 71) that can render a darker black than their Plasma counterpart... I call that LAME.

5080s can be found really really inexpensive on AVS. Best Buy is a ripoff.

Cool Mr. Sony. :) Great idea. I will also love to continue to advertise TVs with horrible black levels.

Who said it had horrible black levels ??...lets take a guess :D
I think some of the fan club members said that but hey Im in a thread with the some discruntal pie cheerleaders so Im wrong :)

Truly Amazing lol lol

I was thinking that too when I first saw them but even the people in the room watching seemed to agree. Like I said before, I love the Pioneers and I would've loved to get the 5080 but believe me the 5084 IS BETTER! I'll go as far as saying it's even better than the fhd1! I used to think that sammy made inferior plasma's to pio and panny but that viewing yesterday completely changed my mind. I would seriously recommend this tv over the 5080 especially since it's so much cheaper in the us.

Now im not saying that sammy is better than ALL of the Pioneers, im sure the 1080p sets would crush the 5084 but the price difference is quite steep.

You mentioned much of what I've experienced. Many of us who have seen both preferred the overall PQ of the Samsung over the Pioneer, including the Elites. That's not to say that the Pios are bad, though the fanboys here might consider that insulting.
By the way, the FHD-1 is 1080p so clearly the 5084 wasn't crushed by it :cool:

Who said it had horrible black levels ??...lets take a guess :D
I think some of the fan club members said that but hey Im in a thread with the some discruntal pie cheerleaders so Im wrong :)

Truly Amazing lol lol

I do. The 5064's (which I work with at the TV Station) black level if anything is marginally better than the 5084s black level. Even if they were equal they're still both relatively 'so-so' in my book. Samsungs LCDs have better blacks than their plasmas. Doesn't that make anyone just scratch their heads at all?

One technology is blocking light. The Plasma should have the advanatage yet it doesn't. Samsung's minimum luminence on their Plasmas and LCDs needs to be brought way down before you start comparing it to Pioneer's Kuro models. Samsung's LED model may be a different story.

This is the easiest test in the world. It might take a little work but this is your best bet. You have two choices.

A) Get the Pioneer 5080 and enjoy.

B) Get the Samsung.. bring it home. Turn down the lights. Look at the contrast and black levels on screen. If that's good enough for you... keep it and be happy. You got 1080p on the cheap! Now false contouring, dithering noise, are other effects you might or may not see.

If you're not happy with those blacks, return it and get a 5080 which outperforms a Samsung handily in that regard. When Samsung has an CCFL backlit LCD (65 or 71) that can render a darker black than their Plasma counterpart... I call that LAME.

5080s can be found really really inexpensive on AVS. Best Buy is a ripoff.


Well, I'm not sure if the black levels of Pioneers are better or even vastly superior to Samsungs. That said, even if the Pios were vastly superior, I and I would venture to guess most others have viewing experiences that does not fall into the category of movie theater or cave-like darkness. Nearly all viewing will be experienced with ambient lighting to one degree or another.

By the way johnny, enjoy your Pioneer :cool:

Well, I'm not sure if the black levels of Pioneers are better or even vastly superior to Samsungs.

A proper demo and countless measurements says different. But I guess this is subjective too. I guess one screen looking somewhat black (pioneer) and the other looking cloudy ugly gray (insert other plasma or LCD here including an older Pioneer) isn't dramatic to some people.

That said, even if the Pios were vastly superior, I and I would venture to guess most others have viewing experiences that does not fall into the category of movie theater or cave-like darkness. Nearly all viewing will be experienced with ambient lighting to one degree or another.

I agree with this. Once again, I should verify that I am talking about the 'home theater' experience. If you're going to watch with alot of ambient lighting then... alot of TVs will get you what you need honestly. You don't need to spend that much money. Pioneers are for hi-end home theater usage. That's their purpose.

By the way johnny, enjoy your Pioneer :cool:

Maybe... ironically I have a TV coming in next week. And it's actually a Samsung... go figure. Got to the Samsung 81 owner thread next week in the LCD section. :) Apparently this Pioneer 'cheerleader' has jumped ship.

At least for a couple days.

It doesn't take a Pioneer owner to tell that a Kuro can get much darker than a Samsung Plasma.

I do. The 5064's (which I work with at the TV Station) black level if anything is marginally better than the 5084s black level. Even if they were equal they're still both relatively 'so-so' in my book. Samsungs LCDs have better blacks than their plasmas. Doesn't that make anyone just scratch their heads at all?

One technology is blocking light. The Plasma should have the advanatage yet it doesn't. Samsung's minimum luminence on their Plasmas and LCDs needs to be brought way down before you start comparing it to Pioneer's Kuro models. Samsung's LED model may be a different story.
See I could go into a skit as why black levels are better on the 84 but Mr Sony already stated that he viewed both sets side by side calibrated and the black levels are very close to the same also adding the picture was better with 84.Keep this in mind...He could have went with the 5080 yet he went with the 5084 which in turn cost more money.That sounds to be a very honest review.I will leave it at that.

See I could go into a skit as why black levels are better on the 84 but Mr Sony already stated that he viewed both sets side by side calibrated and the black levels are very close to the same.Keep this in mind...He could have went with the 5080 yet he went with the 84 which in turn cost more money.I will leave it at that.

And you can go the other way as well. Believe what you want to believe. I don't own a Pioneer Kuro yet, but I've seen plenty enough to know. You can play make believe and make buddy's with Mr. Sony all you want. Measurements, personal accounts, dependable sources on AVS, and common sense tells me other wise.

I'm laughing through it all. Give me one review Sling. One professional review... that is unbiased that measures the black level of the Samsung 5084 or even the 5064 to be even close to the 5080. Preferably from not a Sony fan. :)

And you can go the other way as well. Believe what you want to believe. I don't own a Pioneer Kuro yet, but I've seen plenty enough to know. You can play make believe and make buddy's with Mr. Sony all you want. Measurements, personal accounts, dependable sources on AVS, and common sense tells me other wise.

I'm laughing through it all. Give me one review Sling. One professional review... that is unbiased that measures the black level of the Samsung 5084 or even the 5064 to be even close to the 5080. Preferably from not a Sony fan. :)Give me your review of both sets side by side calibrated in real time.We only have one in this thread so far but It would be nice to have two . You could be that hands on second review Johnny...I say go for it .
I will wait patiently for your hands on review of both set real time :)
heheh don't forget to look at all of the either pretty colors beside black levels lol

Give me your review of both sets side by side calabrated in real time.We only have one in this thread so far but It would be nice to have two . You could be that hands on second review Johnny...I say go for it .
I will be waiting for your hands on review :)

So when or IF I get a Pioneer Kuro. You're suggesting I lug it to work. And calibrate both TV sets and compare? I would love to do that for you guys, trust me. But I won't. ;) Best thing I can do is bring my camera to work take a snap shot and then go to someone's house with a Kuro and take a snap shot... but there are already a bunch of pictures show casing this. I decline this for 3 reasons.

1) I'm not interested in older gen plasmas. Samsungs Plasmas fit in that category 1080p or not. If I were content with the blacks on the Samsung plasmas I would've kept my older Pioneer.. which wasn't really that much worse at black.

2) It's going to be a massacre. No benefit or reason other than to curve a few people the right way who are actually believing some of the stuff being said on this thread.

3) I'm busy with Samsungs other product which intrigues me far more. Samsung 81 series vs. Pioneer Kuros. Now there's a shoot out worth it for me. If anyone wants to set one up, I'm all for it.

...
heheh don't forget to look at all of the either pretty colors beside black levels lol

And that's the main point here. Some people prefer "pretty" colors - and buy Samsung 5084. Some prefer colors to be as natural as possible - and buy Pioneer 5080. Are we cool now? :)

So when or IF I get a Pioneer Kuro. You're suggesting I lug it to work. And calibrate both TV sets and compare? I would love to do that for you guys, trust me. But I won't. ;) Best thing I can do is bring my camera to work take a snap shot and then go to someone's house with a Kuro and take a snap shot... but there are already a bunch of pictures show casing this. I decline this for 3 reasons.

1) I'm not interested in older gen plasmas. Samsungs Plasmas fit in that category 1080p or not. If I were content with the blacks on the Samsung plasmas I would've kept my older Pioneer.. which wasn't really that much worse at black.

2) It's going to be a massacre. No benefit or reason other than to curve a few people the right way who are actually believing some of the stuff being said on this thread.

3) I'm busy with Samsungs other product which intrigues me far more. Samsung 81 series vs. Pioneer Kuros. Now there's a shoot out worth it for me. If anyone wants to set one up, I'm all for it.

Well it's evident that you feel samsung is a geto trash of plasma by your post .You can throw mambo jumbo number out there on how 80 beats 84 in black numbers and hey I will not argue that point for you are right but they black levels come pretty darn close.Now lets move on to the overall picture of both displays.The 1080p 5084 blows the 5080 out of the water man.The hdmi delay rainbow in the 80 darn right sucks which pioneer calls normal.We can go on and on about which set is better but we will just make both are self look stupid.
The more side by side hand on reviews the better this thread will be and more easy for the potental buyer.
Lets call it (the buyer gets the better picture) :)

And that's the main point here. Some people prefer "pretty" colors - and buy Samsung 5084. Some prefer colors to be as natural as possible - and buy Pioneer 5080. Are we cool now? :)

Ok, I really take exception to that. IT IS the natural color that sold me on my Samsung. Flesh tones look like the real thing. Flowers look real. When I and others commented on seeing others preferring the Samsung, it is in large part due to color accuracy.
Color accuracy, black levels, contrast, detail, and numerous other factors tell us which comes closest to real. No TV is perfect and all make some compromises. Some of us prefer the compromise Samsung made to achieve there level of PQ. Some of you in this case prefer the compromise Pioneer made for their PQ.

And that's the main point here. Some people prefer "pretty" colors - and buy Samsung 5084. Some prefer colors to be as natural as possible - and buy Pioneer 5080. Are we cool now? :)
Johnny you need to go off on Andrzej because he has no idea what hes talking about lol.

Well it's evident that you feel samsung is a geto trash of plasma by your post .You can throw mambo jumbo number out there on how 80 beats 84 in black numbers and hey I will not argue that point for you are right but they black levels come pretty darn close.Now lets move on to the overall picture of both displays.The 1080p 5084 blows the 5080 out of the water man.The hdmi delay rainbow in the 80 darn right sucks which pioneer calls normal.We can go on and on about which set is better but we will just make both are self look stupid.
The more side by side hand on reviews the better this thread will be and more easy for the potental buyer.
Lets call it (the buyer gets the better picture) :)

HDMI delay rainbow? Now you're claiming this is a problem every 5080 is having? Just like you're taking one person's account and making it a universal truth?

How many people sit around and keep switching channels between 1080i/720p/480i to watch "rainbows" anyway?

I don't need to argue which set is better for certain people. That's up to their wallet, their viewing habits, and their own eyes. But if you are claiming the 5084s black level is darker... then you need proof beyond one person's account of a "calibration". I know what's going to happen in a side by side comparison because there is no comparison for me. In a darkened room there's going to be the need for a mercy rule for the Sammy.

Johnny you need to go off on Andrzej because he has no idea what hes talking about lol.

I kind of agree with you here Sling. But color accuracy once again is something that needs to be compared through measurements after calibration. I think Pioneer and Samsung out of the box are usually pretty good.

Now here is where a side-by-side comparison may be more useful.

Does anyone here ever watch their set, or do you all just sit around and trash the set you dont own? Why dont you just express your opinion and move on? Welcome to avs where sombody will make you feel like crap no mater what set you buy.

Must be magic or something. :) Maybe HDMI has great strides... or DVRs are getting better. Mine will always delay regardless of what the display is doing.

To be honest, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone having no lag when their STB is changing resolution. Very interesting. Again, I don't believe this is a TV issue, but rather a STB issue. Anyone needing further proof need do nothing more than visit the receiver threads. Read any of the threads on the new HDMI switching receivers. There you'll find owners who set the receiver to a CONSTANT 1080p output and they still see this synch issue. So tell me, what does that tell you? It tells you the resynching issue is in the STB. So obviously a display can't cure that.

I was thinking that too when I first saw them but even the people in the room watching seemed to agree. Like I said before, I love the Pioneers and I would've loved to get the 5080 but believe me the 5084 IS BETTER! I'll go as far as saying it's even better than the fhd1!


I guess not only are we wrong, but all those reviewers too. When viewed in a dark room the new Pioneers have the best black levels. This can not be disputed. It is subjectively seen and objectively measured. Yes, surely you may prefer the Samsung, but you are preferring a set with lesser black levels.

I will also become a Pioneer sponsor ................Pioneer is the best and no either set can stand up to it hmmm
All we care about are black levels and how much better they are compared to your samsung and Panasonic's...Your pictures may look better but we got better dark levels lol.........
I must now go back to the nfl preseason game Steelers vr eagles on my 5084.The Black level look fantastic yet nothing will ever be better then a pioneer lol

just having some fun....got to go :)

I will also become a Pioneer sponsor ................Pioneer is the best and no either set can stand up to it hmmm
All we care about are black levels and how much better they are compared to your samsung and Panasonic's...Your pictures may look better but we got better dark levels lol.........
I must now go back to the nfl preseason game Steelers vr eagles on my 5084.The Black level look fantastic yet nothing will ever be better then a pioneer lol

just having some fun....got to go :)
All of these current, name-brand, large plasmas have wonderful pictures. I'm the first to say that the Pioneer PQ (based on real head to head comparisons) and feature set are tops but we must also realize that the reason people watch television is for the programming, not the perpetual evaluation of every single element of picture quality. I'll take a great movie on a Hitachi over a bad movie on a Pioneer every day.

I guess not only are we wrong, but all those reviewers too. When viewed in a dark room the new Pioneers have the best black levels. This can not be disputed. It is subjectively seen and objectively measured. Yes, surely you may prefer the Samsung, but you are preferring a set with lesser black levels.Well the Samsung is damn close, it was hard to tell the difference with most of the material played on the two. Even then, the slightly better black levels dosen't mean that the picture is better. When viewing a 1080i source they look pretty much the same but when I was watching MI3 on blu-ray and 300 on HD-DVD, there was no doubt about it, the samsungs 1080p picture looked much better than the pio overall. The styling on the sammy looks better too which matters to me. Im still shocked that this sammy is not only better than the pannys but comparable to the pio's. Back when I was considering the FHD1 I thought that the samsung plasmas were cheap alternatives for people who wanted a good plasma but didn't want to spend the panny or pio price. Im going to take one more look at these tommorow at future shop and bay bloor radio just to make sure I made the right choice. I have 30 days to change my mind. :)

Both sets are amazing and I look forward to the cnet review of the 5084.

Does anyone here ever watch their set, or do you all just sit around and trash the set you dont own? Why dont you just express your opinion and move on? Welcome to avs where sombody will make you feel like crap no mater what set you buy.

This is really typical of any user forums. Same story on the bmw, guitar, audio, and homerecording forums I belong to.

Before forums, I thought the "Mine is better than yours" mentality ended in 4th grade. I quickly found that we are still kids with more expensive toys.

So with that being said, "Samsung 5084 rocks!"

\\nn//

hmm if cnet ever gets in gear and does a review on the 84.I definitely don't feel there words are gold on any plasma..but it would be nice to hear there feed back.

Well the Samsung is damn close, it was hard to tell the difference with most of the material played on the two. Even then, the slightly better black levels dosen't mean that the picture is better. When viewing a 1080i source they look pretty much the same but when I was watching MI3 on blu-ray and 300 on HD-DVD, there was no doubt about it, the samsungs 1080p picture looked much better than the pio overall. The styling on the sammy looks better too which matters to me. Im still shocked that this sammy is not only better than the pannys but comparable to the pio's. Back when I was considering the FHD1 I thought that the samsung plasmas were cheap alternatives for people who wanted a good plasma but didn't want to spend the panny or pio price. Im going to take one more look at these tommorow at future shop and bay bloor radio just to make sure I made the right choice. I have 30 days to change my mind. :)

Both sets are amazing and I look forward to the cnet review of the 5084.

Mr. Sony, I am curious what your viewing distance was for the side-by-side test of the calibrated 5084 and 5080? Particularly for the MI3 on blu-ray and 300 on HD-DVD tests. Also, was this is a very bright, typical retail viewing environment or some other lighting. Thanks.

Mr. Sony, I am curious what your viewing distance was for the side-by-side test of the calibrated 5084 and 5080? Particularly for the MI3 on blu-ray and 300 on HD-DVD tests. Also, was this is a very bright, typical retail viewing environment or some other lighting. Thanks.I was viewing these sets from about 9 or 10 feet and it was in a theater setup so it was quite dark in the room. I wanted it like this because this was exactly how it was going to be setup in my house.

I am going to take another look tommorow using d-nice's settings. After reading so many reviews im starting to question the calibration quality of the hd-dvd. Using d-nice's settings will help me enjoy my set with no regrets. After all, I am able to get the 5080 for less than the 5084 so I might as well give it a try.

I will also become a Pioneer sponsor ................Pioneer is the best and no either set can stand up to it hmmm
All we care about are black levels and how much better they are compared to your samsung and Panasonic's...Your pictures may look better but we got better dark levels lol.........
I must now go back to the nfl preseason game Steelers vr eagles on my 5084.The Black level look fantastic yet nothing will ever be better then a pioneer lol

just having some fun....got to go :)

Steelers suck. :) Go Bengals. Pioneers do way more than black levels. Great processing, great colors, and (now recently) great black levels in a combination is what makes me 'sponsor' them I guess. You need all these things working together to get a good picture. Those three merits make up the majority chunk of awesome PQ in a theater setting.

And Pioneer will have competition by Samsung in the PQ department. It's just not going to be from their plasma series. Go enjoy your set. I am by no means de-meaning a Samsung. Just because they're not as good as the Kuro models doesn't mean those sets aren't great to watch.

There's great TV sets, and revolutionary TV sets. Kuros are the later.

Well the Samsung is damn close, it was hard to tell the difference with most of the material played on the two. Even then, the slightly better black levels dosen't mean that the picture is better. When viewing a 1080i source they look pretty much the same but when I was watching MI3 on blu-ray and 300 on HD-DVD, there was no doubt about it, the samsungs 1080p picture looked much better than the pio overall. The styling on the sammy looks better too which matters to me. Im still shocked that this sammy is not only better than the pannys but comparable to the pio's. Back when I was considering the FHD1 I thought that the samsung plasmas were cheap alternatives for people who wanted a good plasma but didn't want to spend the panny or pio price. Im going to take one more look at these tommorow at future shop and bay bloor radio just to make sure I made the right choice. I have 30 days to change my mind. :)

Both sets are amazing and I look forward to the cnet review of the 5084.

First, 1080i sources have the same amount of detail as a 1080p source. That comparison seems strange to me. If they're both hi-quality it should be similar. Secondly, Black levels do not assure you better PQ, but when Pioneer does everything so well in other categories.. a CRT-like black level pushes it over the edge.

Sitting 9-10 feet means you may be wasting that 1080p resolution. I know some people "SWEAR THEY SEE A DIFFERENCE". But why not just move a little closer to enjoy the pixels?

C-nets review of the 5064 if history means anything will be similar to their 5064. I agree with their stance on 1080p on anything 50 inches or less. 50 inches is 'barely' there to justify bumping up res. You need to sit very close.

Ha, I always thought that I had to sit that far away with a 50" 1080p ever since a sony sales rep told me so. Well thanks for the info because I would love to sit closer to the set. I love AVS, i've learned so much from this site. :)

The black levels were very close, almost identical, so it wasn't going to make the 5080 better and I must say that the 1080p res did make the 5084 seem cleaner and sharper which made it have a better overall pq.

I have seen the 64 series already and I agreed with what cnet said about it but the 5084 has fixed these issues and the 1080p res really puts this tv in a different league. With these issues fixed this not only is this the first sammy plasma to wow me but it's the first where I can compare it with the pio and panny. Imo it's even better than the 1080p panny and people seem to agree with this fact. From what I have seen the 5084 even beats the FHD1, which would've been my set if it had hdmi 1.3. I know that cnet doesn't really think that 1080p is a big difference at this size but with all the errors of the previous sammy fixed and with a pq that even beats the fhd1 (which scored an 8.7) I believe that the review will be much better for this set but this is my opinion so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

Ha, I always thought that I had to sit that far away with a 50" 1080p ever since a sony sales rep told me so. Well thanks for the info because I would love to sit closer to the set. I love AVS, i've learned so much from this site. :)

The black levels were very close, almost identical, so it wasn't going to make the 5080 better and I must say that the 1080p res did make it seem cleaner and sharper which made it have a better overall pq.

I have seen the 64 series already and I agreed with what cnet said about it the 5084 has fixed these issues and the 1080p res really puts this tv in a different league. With these issues fixed this not only is this the first sammy plasma to wow me but it's the first where I can compare it with the pio and panny. Imo it's even better than the 1080p panny and people seem to agree with this fact. From what I have seen the 5084 even beats the FHD1, which would've been my set if it had hdmi 1.3. I know that cnet doesn't really think that 1080p is a big difference at this size but with all the errors of the previous sammy fixed and with a pq that even beats the fhd1 (which scored an 8.7) I believe that the review will be much better for this set but this is my opinion so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

A Sony rep told you to sit farther away to appreciate 1080p?!

... And I'm hard headed. Right. Glad I could be of some service to you Mr. Sony. Apparently somebody got help from my babbling, which is so worth it by the way. For every person that learns there's an idiot complaining I guess.

But yes I'll leave this thread be before they'll name it the "Johnny Whizzes on Samsung Plasmas Thread". Which I wouldn't mind even though I'm not cause that thread sounds cool.

Before you leave this thread, have you actually seen the 5084 with a proper setup? I would've had the same response as you before yesterday so if you haven't then I bet you'll be plesantly surprised with this sets excellent pq.

Before you leave this thread, have you actually seen the 5084 with a proper setup? I would've had the same response as you before yesterday so if you haven't then I bet you'll be plesantly surprised with this sets excellent pq.

I have seen the 5084. Properly set up as in calibrating it for awhile, watching in the dark, and popping in the best source possible? No. But I have seen and done that to the 5064 and like I said, I am plesantly impressed with the 768p versions.

1080p doesn't impress me so much, so if there are some other improvements in other areas then I'll take your word for it. Or we'll just wait for review to come out... oh wait... The Europeans have done some reviews. Go UK!!

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Samsung-PS50P96FDX/ I believe this is the UK equivalent to the 5084. Maybe I'm wrong...

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Pioneer-PDP4280XD/ equivalent of the 4280 and 950 having a love child.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Pioneer-PDP508XD/ equivalent of the 5080 and the 1150 having a hate child.

Apparently these hard headed buffoons want you all to buy Pioneers too!

Now I leave.

Steelers suck. :) Go Bengals. Pioneers do way more than black levels. Great processing, great colors, and (now recently) great black levels in a combination is what makes me 'sponsor' them I guess. You need all these things working together to get a good picture. Those three merits make up the majority chunk of awesome PQ in a theater setting.

And Pioneer will have competition by Samsung in the PQ department. It's just not going to be from their plasma series. Go enjoy your set. I am by no means de-meaning a Samsung. Just because they're not as good as the Kuro models doesn't mean those sets aren't great to watch.

There's great TV sets, and revolutionary TV sets. Kuros are the later.hmm Bengals fan.That would explain why you think the 80 looks better then the 84 lol lol
Steelers all the way man...and oh yeah the 84 has a better overall picture.Ive tried to break it to you gently but hey man my toy is betters then yours :) :):) lol lol

Does anyone here ever watch their set, or do you all just sit around and trash the set you dont own? Why dont you just express your opinion and move on? Welcome to avs where sombody will make you feel like crap no mater what set you buy.

good post here...

Does anyone here ever watch their set, or do you all just sit around and trash the set you dont own? Why dont you just express your opinion and move on? Welcome to avs where sombody will make you feel like crap no mater what set you buy.

Oh we're sorry. I didn't know this was Best Buy... where we have to pat everyone on their own head for their 'brilliant purchases'. If you want your ass kissed go to Circuit City or a B and M store. The good ones on this forum will trash/praise any set based on performance regardless of who owns it. I trash my own TV sets constantly. It's called being honest. The Thread is a VS. thread. This is what its for.

This is a forum about video science. Get used to it.

I can trash Pioneer plasmas too. They still got PWM noise. They cost a freaking fortune. (Do you know what I can do with 3700 bucks?) Their customer service is mediocre. The glass still glares. Blacks are awesome but still not perfect. There is no RGB adjustments on non-Elites. Going Elite costs even more money. (Do you know what I can do with 4600 dollars?)

It's real easy to do. You got a whole bunch of display freaks here that are anal about video quality. That's what the board is normally for. So if you get your feelings hurt and need your TV's ego stroked, may I suggest you don't post here.

P.S.: Just on a side note. If we could all be enjoying our sets we probably would. Some of us are actually unable to be at home to enjoy. LIke I said, hi-end flat screen plasmas aren't cheap. So yes... desk jobs w/ benefits does get you some net time, and the 2nd best thing to watching TV displays is to read and talk about TV displays... especially if you're discontent with alot of the displays out there.

Just an example of why you get alot of posts. Can;t play guitar? Talk about guitars. Go to the PRS Guitar Forum and you'll see me there too. Dissing Gibson guitars... ;)

hmm Bengals fan.That would explain why you think the 80 looks better then the 84 lol lol
Steelers all the way man...and oh yeah the 84 has a better overall picture.Ive tried to break it to you gently but hey man my toy is betters then yours :) :):) lol lol

Now I understand why we were budding heads. Bengals and Steelers fans... no good combo! But anyway, yes, I'll stop with the debating. It was fun.

Sling, we'll keep the record this year. Your Pittsburg Steelers stole the Bengals playoff run! Damn youz!!!

Although I will admit the Pioneers black levels are more impressive, the picture on the Samsung is no slouch. I have the money budgeted for a 5010 from a forum sponsor but am rethinking my decision now. When I see the 5010, I also see a 5084 + an SVS PB12-Plus/2 subwoofer. That in itself is quite an eye opener as what else can be purchased with the extra cash to further enhance a system. I am happy with my system but my sub falls a tad short. I cannot give an answer to 5080 vs 5084 because I cant seem to purchase one yet myself without knowing I will experience some type of buyers remorse. Buying a tv sure isn't what it used to be, I'll tell ya.

Sling, we'll keep the record this year. Your Pittsburg Steelers stole the Bengals playoff run! Damn youz!!!hehehehe :D

Well it's evident that you feel samsung is a geto trash of plasma by your post .


Wow, that phrase is hurtful to so many people, including me, I hardly know where to start. :eek: So maybe I won't. But can we please try to refrain from phrases which insult huge groups of people? Thanks.

Wow, that phrase is hurtful to so many people, including me, I hardly know where to start. :eek: So maybe I won't. But can we please try to refrain from phrases which insult huge groups of people? Thanks.Sorry if I insulted what is known as the Geto yet there is trash in them some would say.I did not mean to offend anyone.

No problem, Slingbox. I understand you didn't mean to offend anyone. I just get frustrated with the phrase because it implies that people who live in inner cities are trash. As someone who's lived in inner cities much of my life, I know there are lots of good folks there. When "ghetto" becomes an adjective to describe plasmas or anything else, it gets me. And now back to the tv discussion...

So what's the general concensus here? the Sammy 5084?

Doubt it. It just depends on your budget.

So what's the general consensus here? the Sammy 5084?

The general consensus, which no one wants to admit, is that these are all great sets. People forget that not everyone sees color the same way, what looks good to one person, might not look good to another. It makes no sense to split hairs on these TVs. I just yesterday ordered the 5084, but not because it's better than the 5080. It was cheaper AND it had some features that I liked. Additionally, I happened to see a Samsung with bad color, a Panasonic with off colors and a 5080 that looked soft. That was the one that really surprised me, up to that point every Pioneer I looked at was great. (I'm sure this one was probably messed with and could be made great too) But I realized that I was trying to find something wrong with these sets.

SO I decided to order one and enjoy it when it comes in ... and if your set is better than mine, SO BE IT. I'm going to enjoy my first HD NFL season no matter what the rest of you guys say. :D

NFL PRESESION ROCKS
You get to see what the teams are really made of
I enjoyed the Bengals / falcons preseason game :D

Doesn't matter how good the 5080 is, i have a hard time spending so much money on a HD-READY screen.
Within 2-3 years, no more HD-ready will be fabricated. Try to sell your 5080 then, even your grandma will say "wth, you try to sell me a HD-ready screen?". :D

Doesn't matter how good the 5080 is, i have a hard time spending so much money on a HD-READY screen.
Within 2-3 years, no more HD-ready will be fabricated. Try to sell your 5080 then, even your grandma will say "wth, you try to sell me a HD-ready screen?". :D

And what is the alternative to "HD-READY"?
"HD-NOT READY" ? :eek:

Doesn't matter how good the 5080 is, i have a hard time spending so much money on a HD-READY screen.
Within 2-3 years, no more HD-ready will be fabricated. Try to sell your 5080 then, even your grandma will say "wth, you try to sell me a HD-ready screen?". :D
Can any one explain to me this whole idea of 768 panels somehow becoming obsolete in two years or more? Right now you can see plenty of opinions on this site that suggest that HD 1080p content looks better on a 768 panel that has a better PQ anyway...like the Pioneer Elite 1150HD (768) vs. Panasonic TH-50PZ750U (1080p).

For the life of me, I don't get these comments or others ones saying that by getting an inferior 1080p panel that you are somehow "future proofing" your television! The future is here NOW people and 1080p is here NOW and still there are PLENTY of 768 panels that take blu-ray or HD DVD source material and reproduce it brilliantly! What could possibly be "around the corner" in the next few years that will make a 768 kick ass panel obsolete?

Whew! Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. ;-)

Rob

Doesn't matter how good the 5080 is, i have a hard time spending so much money on a HD-READY screen.
Within 2-3 years, no more HD-ready will be fabricated. Try to sell your 5080 then, even your grandma will say "wth, you try to sell me a HD-ready screen?". :D
Question,
Did you come to this conclusion yourself or did you read it in the Sears catalog :)

And what is the alternative to "HD-READY"?
"HD-NOT READY" ? :eek:

With "HD-ready" i meant 1024x768 and 1366x768 res screens. Most likely
these resolution screens won't be fabricated anymore within 2-3 years. Only 1920x1080 full-HD.

If the one is better than the other is a totally other subject. The "mass" simply wants Full-HD, no
questions ask. :)

Can any one explain to me this whole idea of 768 panels somehow becoming obsolete in two years or more? Right now you can see plenty of opinions on this site that suggest that HD 1080p content looks better on a 768 panel that has a better PQ anyway...like the Pioneer Elite 1150HD (768) vs. Panasonic TH-50PZ750U (1080p).

For the life of me, I don't get these comments or others ones saying that by getting an inferior 1080p panel that you are somehow "future proofing" your television! The future is here NOW people and 1080p is here NOW and still there are PLENTY of 768 panels that take blu-ray or HD DVD source material and reproduce it brilliantly! What could possibly be "around the corner" in the next few years that will make a 768 kick ass panel obsolete?

Whew! Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. ;-)

Rob

1080p cable feed and 1080p video cams and real 1080p rendered PS2 games (as opposed to upscaled) and the list just goes on! Heh, just some examples (and not all that important imho), but heck it's the future - there'll always be something new...just like HDMI 1.3 and all these color schemas etc.

Doesn't matter how good the 5080 is, i have a hard time spending so much money on a HD-READY screen.
Within 2-3 years, no more HD-ready will be fabricated. Try to sell your 5080 then, even your grandma will say "wth, you try to sell me a HD-ready screen?". :D

HD ready is just an old term for displays that had no tuner, FYI.

768P will fall by the wayside because marketing people have guaranteed it. If you are bombarded with enough "1080p is the only true HD" then sooner or later you will believe it. Many many experts have told us that 1080p has no advantage at normal viewing distances. But try and find a DLP, or LCOS or RP LCD that is still 768p. How about a main stream LCD flat panel. Why do you think that Pioneer decided not to offer a 6080? Because they were afraid that people would buy it instead of their much more expensive (projecting here) 6010. You will see the 5010 later this year at very nice prices for the same reason IMO.

HD ready is just an old term for displays that had no tuner, FYI.

I now understand it has a different meaning in the US and Europe, hence
the misunderstanding. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Ready

So what's the general concensus here? the Sammy 5084?
I just got back from BB, where I was able to view a Pioneer 5080 right next to a Samsung 5084...and I'm here to tell you the Pioneer absolutely smoked the Sammy. It wasn't even close in my opinion.

There was a huge difference in black levels: The Pioneer were almost as balck as it's bezel, while the 5084's blacks were more gray than black. Where it was REALLY noticeable was when the source would fade to black...the 5084's blacks looked more like a smoky gray while the 5080's black were almost PITCH BLACK!

Withdrawn.

I just got back from BB, where I was able to view a Pioneer 5080 right next to a Samsung 5084...and I'm here to tell you the Pioneer absolutely smoked the Sammy. It wasn't even close in my opinion.

There was a huge difference in black levels: The Pioneer were almost as balck as it's bezel, while the 5084's blacks were more gray than black. Where it was REALLY noticeable was when the source would fade to black...the 5084's blacks looked more like a smoky gray while the 5080's black were almost PITCH BLACK!were you in a dark room with the door closed when viewing both Plasmas because the difference cant be seen in lighted areas.You really would have to have the lights off in pitch black to see a real difference.

I just got back from BB, where I was able to view a Pioneer 5080 right next to a Samsung 5084...and I'm here to tell you the Pioneer absolutely smoked the Sammy. It wasn't even close in my opinion.

There was a huge difference in black levels: The Pioneer were almost as balck as it's bezel, while the 5084's blacks were more gray than black. Where it was REALLY noticeable was when the source would fade to black...the 5084's blacks looked more like a smoky gray while the 5080's black were almost PITCH BLACK!

Just think of how it will look when you get the puppy inside your house.

I Israel you can buy in the price of one Samsung only an empty box of one pioneer.

Not including the nylon.:)

1080p cable feed and 1080p video cams and real 1080p rendered PS2 games (as opposed to upscaled) and the list just goes on! Heh, just some examples (and not all that important imho), but heck it's the future - there'll always be something new...just like HDMI 1.3 and all these color schemas etc.

How soon will Comcast be giving us the 1080p cable feed you mentioned?

Sorry trident.

I did same comparo and after 20 minutes of direct compare between 5084 and 5080 i have to admit that black levels on 5080 are as black as it gets for any display and 5084 is very slightly behind it, but 5084 almost matched Pana's 50" 1080p set next to it...
In every other aspect of the picture 5084 was better than Pio5080
Overall much more detailed - i mean much more (mostly due to over 50% higher pixel density than in 5080) also 5084 was less noiser, picture was aslo more vivid and less murky on the 5084... Color definition was also better on 5084...

Overall 5084 was wonderfully easy to watch, noise free, distortion free, and best overall 50" out of Pana and PIO 5080.... Pio's 5010 did not look any better than 5084 but did cost twice the price!

Also 2 year warranty on Sammy did better Pio and Panas...

I guess your 5084 was out of calibration in the store and 5080 was not?
Difference in black levels between those two is very slight in favor of 5080 but the other areas of the pic Sammy was my clear winner - for less $$$!

I think you need to visit another store to get a second opinion.

I think you need to visit another store to get a second opinion.

:)

Roman, I'm curious. Why the hate for Samsungs? I see your store sells them.

Definitely the 5080 has superior blacks. I've seen both sets at 3 different BB's in my area and the difference is clear. That said, the 5084 looks great (and quite a bit better than the 5054 at the same settings, taken out of torch mode) and its colors and detail looked as good or better than the 5080 to me. This is probably tougher to discern though, as I couldn't properly adjust them since I had to compensate for the high ambient light.

All in all, I think the 5080 is the superior set on a number of levels. I just wish Pioneer would drop the MSRP on the 5080 sometime this decade so I could get one within the outer skirts of my budget from a forum sponsor...

If the 5084 gets to be $500 or more cheaper than the 5080 in a month or two, I would probably have to just go with it and be satisfied.

:)

Roman, I'm curious. Why the hate for Samsungs? I see your store sells them.

No hate at all I just voice my opinion and have reasons :)

Sorry trident.

I did same comparo and after 20 minutes of direct compare between 5084 and 5080 i have to admit that black levels on 5080 are as black as it gets for any display and 5084 is very slightly behind it, but 5084 almost matched Pana's 50" 1080p set next to it...
In every other aspect of the picture 5084 was better than Pio5080


I've spent a lot of time with both displays and reading that, I'd think you were looking at 2 different TVs...

yes the longer I look at them the more diferences I can see...
I had another look on those two and 5080 simply looks more grainy (again panel has 1/2 or less pixel count than 5084)
they are both top noth panels but the limitations of less pixel dense panel in 5080 are really to hard to mask or overcome in compare with 5084, better black levels on 5080 are just one aspect where it beats 5084 and it is just not enough to beat the great PQ, better warranty, estetics, and killer price Sammy is my clear winner, but at viewing distances not farther than 8ft away 5084's dominance over 5080 is crushing.... maybe it's more of a 1080p vs 720p match up...

I will my sammy 5084 with Richards Gray Power Company that is known for squeezing best black levels and spectacular colors along with overall very smooth picture....

yes the longer I look at them the more diferences I can see...
I had another look on those two and 5080 simply looks more grainy (again panel has 1/2 or less pixel count than 5084)
they are both top noth panels but the limitations of less pixel dense panel in 5080 are really to hard to mask or overcome in compare with 5084, better black levels on 5080 are just one aspect where it beats 5084 and it is just not enough to beat the great PQ, better warranty, estetics, and killer price Sammy is my clear winner, but at viewing distances not farther than 8ft away 5084's dominance over 5080 is crushing.... maybe it's more of a 1080p vs 720p match up...

I will my sammy 5084 with Richards Gray Power Company that is known for squeezing best black levels and spectacular colors along with overall very smooth picture....

:confused: do you watch TV at 3 ft away?

Sorry trident.

I did same comparo and after 20 minutes of direct compare between 5084 and 5080 i have to admit that black levels on 5080 are as black as it gets for any display and 5084 is very slightly behind it, but 5084 almost matched Pana's 50" 1080p set next to it...
In every other aspect of the picture 5084 was better than Pio5080
Overall much more detailed - i mean much more (mostly due to over 50% higher pixel density than in 5080) also 5084 was less noiser, picture was aslo more vivid and less murky on the 5084... Color definition was also better on 5084...

Overall 5084 was wonderfully easy to watch, noise free, distortion free, and best overall 50" out of Pana and PIO 5080.... Pio's 5010 did not look any better than 5084 but did cost twice the price!

Also 2 year warranty on Sammy did better Pio and Panas...

I guess your 5084 was out of calibration in the store and 5080 was not?
Difference in black levels between those two is very slight in favor of 5080 but the other areas of the pic Sammy was my clear winner - for less $$$!
Plazmaman,

Actually I couldn't agree less with your observations here. I was at BB on 5th ave in NYC. Due to the floor space constraints I was unable to view these panels any further than 4 feet due to an island of small LCD's directly behind me. It is because of this close viewing perspective that really made up my mind!

The detail on the 5080 was far superior to the 5084..so much so that I remember thinking for a second that I was looking at a 720 Sammy instead of a 1080p!. The colors on the Sammy looked hyped and unnatural to me, where the Pioneer looked rich and full without being overbearing.
Again, as I stated before, there was just no comparison in the blacks..the Pioneers looked BLACK while the 5084 looked gray. Also, in terms of your comment about the Pioneer being calibrated and the Samsung not, I believe you're clutching at straws here my man. I asked and was told by the BB salesperson who was standing next to me, that all of the panels on display are taken out of the box and displayed without any kind of PQ adjustments....so no help there for ya I'm afraid.

One last thing: The glare reduction on the 5080 was also far far superior to that of the 5084. The panels were right next to one another and the overhead lights were MUCH more visible on the Sammy, while on the Pioneer it was hardly there...very muted.

Plazmaman....I don't own either of these panels...in fact I'm currently looking at Panny's & Elites..so I have no vested interest here. You wouldn't happen to be the proud (biased) owner of a 5084 now would you? ;-)

Rob

Hey Plazmaman, I'm with ya but you know some here will never accept that the Pioneer wasn't head and shoulders above everything.
I admire the fact that you didn't fall for their mind tricks.

Plazmaman,

Actually I couldn't agree less with your observations here. I was at BB on 5th ave in NYC. Due to the floor space constraints I was unable to view these panels any further than 4 feet due to an island of small LCD's directly behind me. It is because of this close viewing perspective that really made up my mind!

The detail on the 5080 was far superior to the 5084..so much so that I remember thinking for a second that I was looking at a 720 Sammy instead of a 1080p!. The colors on the Sammy looked hyped and unnatural to me, where the Pioneer looked rich and full without being overbearing.
Again, as I stated before, there was just no comparison in the blacks..the Pioneers looked BLACK while the 5084 looked gray. Also, in terms of your comment about the Pioneer being calibrated and the Samsung not, I believe you're clutching at straws here my man. I asked and was told by the BB salesperson who was standing next to me, that all of the panels on display are taken out of the box and displayed without any kind of PQ adjustments....so no help there for ya I'm afraid.

One last thing: The glare reduction on the 5080 was also far far superior to that of the 5084. The panels were right next to one another and the overhead lights were MUCH more visible on the Sammy, while on the Pioneer it was hardly there...very muted.

Plazmaman....I don't own either of these panels...in fact I'm currently looking at Panny's & Elites..so I have no vested interest here. You wouldn't happen to be the proud (biased) owner of a 5084 now would you? ;-)

Rob
Woah, wait a minute there, you only viewed the two at BB and you are coming to that conclusion?

Im a sony and pioneer fanboy. I actually dislike samsung very much. I hated all of their plasmas (before the 5084) and I LOVED the pio plasma's, especially the pro-fhd1, I almost purchased one at $10,000!

I went to Future Shop (basically Canadian BB) to see the pio 5080 and Sony XBR4. They did not have the XBR4 in stock and the price was way too much imo so I took that off my list. I asked for the 5080 and the salesman took me into a theatre room. Inside was the Pio 5080, Samsung 5084, Samsung 65 series lcd, and Panasonic 700U. The salesman told me that all of these sets had been callibrated with an HD-DVD which was nice to hear. I first looked at the 65 series lcd. Very good for an lcd but it still had blur and the blacks were n't good enough so I moved on to the next set which was the Samsung 5084. I spent a while with this one looking at HD satellite, HD-DVD, and blu-ray. It was absolutely magnificent. For the first time in my life I enjoyed watching a Samsung tv. All of the problems with the older sets had been fixed which was great. Only thing that turned me off was the price, $4000 CDN. I moved on to the Pio 5080 and Panny. The panny looked very bad, I really like Panasonic but I must say that this was even worse than the last gen. So I compared the Pioneer 5080 and Samsung 5084. Both were the same price, both looked great. I did notice a few differences however. The Pioneer had stellar blacks, almost as dark as the panel, surprisingly, the Samsung 5084 had very comparable blacks. I couldn't believe it, I asked the salesman how it could look so similar. He told me that this sammy had pq adjustments that were comparable to the pioneer elite's and after callibration the black level was able to almost reach the pio's black level. What really made the Samsung stand out though was the detail. Obviously due to the 1080p res, the detail was much better on the Samsung. After 3 hours of viewing, I had changed my mind, I wanted the Samsung. Out of curiosity, I asked if he could give the pio for less (this was after haggling to get the sammy for close to cost). He said he would give me the pio for cost if I got a warranty and wall mount with installation (which I was planning on getting anyway) the price difference was only $200, the Pioneer was actually cheaper.

I ended up buying the Samsung 5084. Normally I would've never in my right mind buy a Samsung plasma let alone pay more than a pioneer price for it but this was different, I truely believe that this is one of the best plasma's out there. For the price that you can get it in the us, this is a steal. I'm sick of these Pioneer fanboys bashing the Sammy 5084, it is a better set, at least imo and everybody else who was watching the sets with me. I know for most people here it will be nearly impossible to believe that a Samsung could be better than a Pioneer but it is true, if you choose to believe the fanboys then thats your decision. I looked at both threads and while I heard mixed reviews in the Pio thread, all the owners of the 5084 are loving their sets and many people there seem to agree that the Samsung is better.

I hope you will go and see these sets again with a good source so you can make a fair assessment and I hope that some of you avs members would do the same. Don't let the "Pioneer Mafia" brainwash you.

The name Pioneer is bounced around AV to be the king of Plasma yet the picture tells a different story sitting next to the 5084.Are they both great Set's????....Of course they are yet the 5084 has a much sharper image ,less noise with true life color. Pioneer fans it's time to face facts....Sammy has picked up the pace.The Picture doesn't lie yet the name Pioneer does.

I personally think Vizio is way better than any Samsung or Pioneer you can buy.

Its time for all to face facts people. Stop buying over priced BS and go Vizio. Vizio victory... chant it slowly.

sure, it's laughable than anyone with any videophile pedigree can call 5080 to destroy the 5084
Blind fanaticism does not scare me it makes me laugh...

Maybe some store owners here defend and try to justify to some why they should spend more money on inferior set?

5084 is the first Samsung plazma that made my chin drop, the more i looked at it next to 5080 and 2 Pana's sets the more i leaned towards 5084...

Again price was not a decison maker for me it just sweetened the deal on the 5084...

I aproached both sets 5080 and 5084 set to torch unwatchable settings and after spending 5 minutes on each set to bring it to watchable settings was no contest other than again Pio's better blacks ( no knock out here) 5084 is a better set...

Just wait for cnet to review 5084 and you'll see... 8.9?

If only 5010 was not 4800usd (2x the price of 5084) than we should be comparing the 5084 to 5010 but unfortunately Pio is still really taking it to it's fans - i hope not for long because more great and inexpencive sets like 5084 and finally market will force Pio to drop it prices.

Again , if 5084 is 2229usd , 5080 should be 1900sud and 5010 maybe around 2800usd... just a proportional price to a value offered.

Just wait for CNET to rate 5084 at 8.9 and the Pio's will start dropping to stay competitive?

I still admire Pio's sets even despite it's pricing and i did aproach this compare session completly unbiased (if not anti Samsung) but facts are facts and 5084 is an awsowe set - best display Samy ever made!

World is catching up or maybe even passing the Pio, let's see if this will bring the best in their next gen model ?
It will have to if they still want to charge hefty premium for their sets...

I personally think Vizio is way better than any Samsung or Pioneer you can buy.

Its time for all to face facts people. Stop buying over priced BS and go Vizio. Vizio victory... chant it slowly.lol great joke:D

here is my take, I have gone to BB least a dozen times, they have the Sammy 5084-1080p right next to the Pio 5080-720p, and the Sammy is sharper and the black levels are as close as they can get tothe Pio, the Pio does have a BIT darker blacks, which does not warrant the huge price difference, especially in today PDP market, with so many to chose from, and the technology still being improved, meaning prices are always on the decline, why should I pay $1,000 more for a PDP when in 6 months to one year, a new better PDP will be out. To some the extra $1,000 is no problem, but to the MAJORITY of us, who don't have that money tree in the backyard, why not get a great looking PDP to enjoy your favorite programing on, and the money saved can pay for the cable-Satellite bill for one year.

I compared these two sets at my local A/V store last week and if I were to go with one, I think it would have to be the 5084. Yes, the deep blacks of the Pio can't be beat, but IMO, everything else favors the sammy. I currently have a panny 720p set and I'm considering returning it and going with the 5084, 5080, or 50pz700u now that the prices have dropped. You can't beat the 2yr warranty of the sammy as well.

I can't get past the IMO cheesy glossy black frame of either brand and I would really prefer to have the somewhat better anti-reflective screen properties of the Pioneer. I'll be waiting to see what the matte-framed industrial model Pioneers have in store for us towards the end of the year, both feature set and price-wise.

If I could get the 5084 in a matte frame with the better anti-reflective quality of the Kuro Pioneers.. I would be all over it. Truth be told, I could be happy enough with the (to me) reasonably close black levels of the 5084. I only watch a few movies a month, and I'm not a black level fiend. As long as it trumps most lcds in that dept., I will be a happy enough video camper.

I can't get past the IMO cheesy glossy black frame of either brand and I would really prefer to have the somewhat better anti-reflective screen properties of the Pioneer. I'll be waiting to see what the matte-framed industrial model Pioneers have in store for us towards the end of the year, both feature set and price-wise.

If I could get the 5084 in a matte frame with the better anti-reflective quality of the Kuro Pioneers.. I would be all over it. Truth be told, I could be happy enough with the (to me) reasonably close black levels of the 5084. I only watch a few movies a month, and I'm not a black level fiend. As long as it trumps most lcds in that dept., I will be a happy enough video camper.

That's why people should buy Vizio!! :mad: So you are a Matte man Cruel... cool. :)

I can't get past the IMO cheesy glossy black frame of either brand and I would really prefer to have the somewhat better anti-reflective screen properties of the Pioneer. I'll be waiting to see what the matte-framed industrial model Pioneers have in store for us towards the end of the year, both feature set and price-wise.

If I could get the 5084 in a matte frame with the better anti-reflective quality of the Kuro Pioneers.. I would be all over it. Truth be told, I could be happy enough with the (to me) reasonably close black levels of the 5084. I only watch a few movies a month, and I'm not a black level fiend. As long as it trumps most lcds in that dept., I will be a happy enough video camper.


I have the Panny 50pe77u and while I really like the clean Black matte frame, the glossy frame of either the pio or sammy wouldn't keep me from buying one.

There are a few circumstances in which I think black glossy frames can compliment a room. Unfortunately, I think those frames looks a bit ridiculous in most of the room pictures I see posted here by the owners of such panels. But I'm pretty particular about my decorating likes and dislikes.. In most of the typical furniture stores I visit, I will walk aisle after aisle completely aghast and baffled as to who in their right mind would ever purchase such crappy looking stuff. But evidently, lots of people do! :eek:

That's why people should buy Vizio!! :mad: So you are a Matte man Cruel... cool. :)

Vizio being the best is a given. The battle for second and third place is what we are debating here. Personally, I cannot buy a tv with both the letters "v"and "z" in it's brand name. The letters found at the tail end of the alphabet are strictly bargain basement, you know. Only one can be employed to maintain brand cache credibility. Include two of these caboose letters and you're prestige is shot straight to hell. :p

Taken from the Kuro owners thread, this might be useful to anyone who is looking to compare these screens in store. I assume that these settings highlighted below match the recommended in-store settings for viewing the Pioneer 5080. If there are any generally agreed upon settings for Samsung 5084, it might be a good idea for someone to post those here too, in order to facilitate better comparisions in stores.

With similarly closer-to-optimal settings for each, it might cut down on some of the wildly divergent impressions, i.e., "Samsung looked like complete crap next to the Pioneer", which is inevitably followed by a "You've got to be kidding me.. I've seen both side by side and the Samsung crushes the Pioneer!", etc. :D


It's nearly impossible to make valid judgments if you really have no idea what the settings are or what they should be between the two.

Okay, so I had an interesting experience at one of the Best Buy's in my area last night. I went there with my brother to purchase The Office Season 3 (one of the best shows EVER) and noticed the new fashion in which BB displayed their flat panel TV's; they now hang ALL of them on the wall giving the customer a better way to compare and more room to maneuver to view them. So I naturally spotted the Kuro 5080HD from across the floor and went to it. I was immediately approached by a salesman who asked me what I thought. I pretended to be clueless and didn't tell him I actually owned one (of course). I asked for the remote and said I wanted to compare it to the Samsung 5054 right below it. He grabbed the remote right away for me (so now you have no excuse when comparing people; they will let you tweak the TV). I took the TV out of Dynamic mode and set it to the much preferred Movie mode. The salesman immediately said, "Wow, that's way better!" I then turned enhancer mode to 2, DRE to Low, Gamma to 3 and Pure Cinema to Smooth. I then turned the color mode to Low, but that's where it got interesting. Even though the TV did look better, it looked like it had a different color pallet than all the other TV's around it. I am assuming that the default "torch" mode uses a "mid" color temp rather than the NTSC recommend "low." Due to this it stuck out like a sore thumb, and not in a good way. I changed it back to mid and it blended in more to the other TV's but still looked much better.

Lesson learned, using "torch" mode and purposefully having the set output inaccurate colors really does draw attention to the TV. Due to this I kept it in the "mid" color temp and as a result the Pioneer (after some of my minor tweaking) looked better than any TV in the store, even the 1080p sets. It was a cripser, sharper image with the DRE on low and enhancer mode set to 2. The Samsung was sharper, but it looked very odd like edge enhancement was on...it was very inaccurate but surely did catch the eye of a customer (he said, "wow, that's the sharpest panel on the showroom floor" and, it would seem, he ended up purchasing it). I thought to myself, it's amazing how uneducated people are about these thing and how easy it is to get them to like what they are told to like. .... [EDITED OUT UNRELATED TANGENT]

There are a few circumstances in which I think black glossy frames can compliment a room. Unfortunately, I think those frames looks a bit ridiculous in most of the room pictures I see posted here by the owners of such panels. But I'm pretty particular about my decorating likes and dislikes.. In most of the typical furniture stores I visit, I will walk aisle after aisle completely aghast and baffled as to who in their right mind would ever purchase such crappy looking stuff. But evidently, lots of people do! :eek:



Vizio being the best is a given. The battle for second and third place is what we are debating here. Personally, I cannot buy a tv with both the letters "v"and "z" in it's brand name. The letters found at the tail end of the alphabet are strictly bargain basement, you know. Only one can be employed to maintain brand cache credibility. Include two of these caboose letters and you're prestige is shot straight to hell. :p


Thank you very much. :) Just walk into the store... and take a look. Duh! I've compared numberous TVs side by side, 'calibrated', and w/o a remote. Vizio is clearly the superior TVs. Samsung and Pioneer got alot of work to do to catch up to these TVs. I dig em!

Thank you very much. :) Just walk into the store... and take a look. Duh! I've compared numberous TVs side by side, 'calibrated', and w/o a remote. Vizio is clearly the superior TVs. Samsung and Pioneer got alot of work to do to catch up to these TVs. I dig em!You got them chanting, visio victory already. did you use a jedi mind trick?

You got them chanting, visio victory already. did you use a jedi mind trick?

Nothing can defeat the power of Vizio. :) No Jedi Mind Tricks necessary.

hmm say Vizio really really fast 7 times and there you have your magic ring plasma lol.

heheh the unlucky 7 will get you all the time.

Vizio, Vizio, Vizio Yeaaaaah (lil john style)

I have tried to like the PIO 5080 ever since it came out and am impressed with the CR and quality. The problem is that the BB near me has the 5084 right under the 5080 and the clarity of the 5084 is astounding.
Both of these panels are great and I'm going with the Sammy because of the overall design, resolution, good CR, side speakers and price.
I really thought I'd be in the Pioneer camp and cannot deny the value of the Sammy!

Sorry trident.

I did same comparo and after 20 minutes of direct compare between 5084 and 5080 i have to admit that black levels on 5080 are as black as it gets for any display and 5084 is very slightly behind it, but 5084 almost matched Pana's 50" 1080p set next to it...
In every other aspect of the picture 5084 was better than Pio5080
Overall much more detailed - i mean much more (mostly due to over 50% higher pixel density than in 5080) also 5084 was less noiser, picture was aslo more vivid and less murky on the 5084... Color definition was also better on 5084...

Overall 5084 was wonderfully easy to watch, noise free, distortion free, and best overall 50" out of Pana and PIO 5080.... Pio's 5010 did not look any better than 5084 but did cost twice the price!

Also 2 year warranty on Sammy did better Pio and Panas...

I guess your 5084 was out of calibration in the store and 5080 was not?
Difference in black levels between those two is very slight in favor of 5080 but the other areas of the pic Sammy was my clear winner - for less $$$!
Plazmaman & All Others,

You probably won't see this too often on this forum, but I am here to sincerely apologize for my misinformed review of the Samsung FP-T5084. As I had said earlier I saw the 5084 next to a Pioneer 5080 in a BB a few days back. My response was that the Pio "smoked" the Samsung. Well, here's where this story goes horribly wrong and another reason not to take anything from BB too seriously. I was actually looking at a Samsung HP-T5054! Best Buy had the wrong tag displayed with this monitor!!!

I was online and noticed that the pics of the 5084 were quite different from what I had seen in BB. Well after a bit of investigating I realized I had been hoodwinked! I still stand by my review, except it is the 720p 5054 that got absolutely smoked by the Pioneer...NOT the 5084 as I had reported.

Anyway, I got to another BB and went to a CC as well to check out a REAL 5084 and I am here to tell you I AM A CONVERT!! I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT!!! FORGIVE ME FOR I HAVE SPOKEN WITH FORKED TONGUE!!

I am blown away by this panel! I like how the colors "pop" more than the Panny 700U..the blacks are just about equal to the 700U..I feel the whites are better..and I like the asthetics of the bezel better as well. The only thing I don't like about it is the silver trim on the left and right sides..in fact I hate it. Has anyone removed or painted these. I know, I know, that must sound like blasphemy but I REALLY don't dig that trim. Otherwise, I think it's a BEAUTIFUL panel.

By the way, if anyone here is in Manhattan, NY go to the BB on 5th ave and see the mistake for yourself. As of yesterday it was still not corrected. By the way I tried vainly to get a sales rep's attention to point out the oversight for like 15 mins and eventually just wound up leaving frustrated.

Anyway, once again..MEA CULPA to all you Samsung FP-T5084 fans/owners out there...."I once was lost...but now I'm found"!

Rob

Apology accepted Rob

:)


My 5084 continues to amaze me. And I am no novice to great
imaging being a long time photographer that goes back to a
film based color darkroom.

I watched an episode of Planet Earth with my wife tonight on
the 5084. The imagery was so intense that we both had to
take a break after watching an episode. The images are so
lifelike and "correct". I tell you, television has fully arrived.
This TV will display an image limited only by what is fed it.
Any improvement on this TV will only be very, very incremental.
Doubtless that 3D is the next near frontier.

This TV just "stones" me !


Chris

Apology accepted Rob

:)


My 5084 continues to amaze me. And I am no novice to great
imaging being a long time photographer that goes back to a
film based color darkroom.

I watched an episode of Planet Earth with my wife tonight on
the 5084. The imagery was so intense that we both had to
take a break after watching an episode. The images are so
lifelike and "correct". I tell you, television has fully arrived.
This TV will display an image limited only by what is fed it.
Any improvement on this TV will only be very, very incremental.
Doubtless that 3D is the next near frontier.

This TV just "stones" me !


Chris
Chris,

Good to hear! By the way, the only consistent negatives I've seen on this forum and online as well is that the 5084 doesn't really do much to help SD sources at all. I know...junk in, junk out...but apparently there are a few panels out there like the Panny 700U or the Pioneer 5080 that actually seem to be "kinder" to SD signals. Can you comment on your experience with SD on this panel?

Thanks!

Rob

This TV just "stones" me !


Chris

sorry, but if you really are as mightily impressed as you say, then the more apropos word here would be "slays", as in "this tv just slays me!". Getting killed by a tv is more dramatically impressive than merely injured by one.




:p

Chris,

Good to hear! By the way, the only consistent negatives I've seen on this forum and online as well is that the 5084 doesn't really do much to help SD sources at all. I know...junk in, junk out...but apparently there are a few panels out there like the Panny 700U or the Pioneer 5080 that actually seem to be "kinder" to SD signals. Can you comment on your experience with SD on this panel?

Thanks!

Rob


Hi Rob,

I just picked up the 5084 .. had it delivered this week. Since I don't have my D-TV HDTV box yet (Saturday), I have experienced more SD content on this set than I plan to. But I have to admit, it's really pretty good. Yes some channels are poor, but a lot of them a MUCH better than I ever thought they would be. If you have kids, they con't be able to see any difference on cartoons. They look nice PERIOD!!.

My dad has a Mitsubishi RP-TV and Dish Network and a buddy has a Samsung DLP and Comcast. I think this set does SD at least as well as both. (Far superior to a lot of SD channels on my dad's 4 year old Mitsu such as NESN)

I know this isn't a great comparison, but I think you will be pleasantly surprised by the SD output. Of course, I hope you don't plan on watching too much of it ;-)

Dan

Rob

I find the SD to be better than I thought it would be. As
you say, GIGO. I have U-Verse for a feed.

I took a quick pic, hand held. I'll take a better one when
I have a few minutes.

Chris

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b357/doctorxring/TV-pic1.jpg

The name Pioneer is bounced around AV to be the king of Plasma yet the picture tells a different story sitting next to the 5084.Are they both great Set's????....Of course they are yet the 5084 has a much sharper image ,less noise with true life color. Pioneer fans it's time to face facts....Sammy has picked up the pace.The Picture doesn't lie yet the name Pioneer does.

How the hell did you come up with that? The Samsung exhibits a lot of dithering noise in dark material (typical of many plasmas), offers a lower contrast ratio, and lesser processing. Another flaw that bothers me can be seen if you have multiple high contrast objects on screen. A black box in the middle of a white image will cause horizontal lines to be drawn across the white area resulting in a less than pure image.

One problem with the Pioneer is that the Sharpness control is not what actually adjusts that particular setting. Sharpness allows very subtle adjustment, but an option under Advanced allows you to select three different display modes (sharp, medium, and blurry). Selecting setting 1 results in an incredibly sharp image...but a lot of people don't seem to realize this.

I don't understand how "dark dithering" can be ignored by so many people when it is even present with high-end brands (Fujitsu, for example). The Fuji everyone was raving about has this same issue and it drives me insane. As a gamer, I view a lot of imagery that should be completely devoid of pixel noise and this flaws rears its head constantly in such situations. The Pioneer panel is one of the ONLY plasmas I've used that does not suffer from this. From what I could tell, this was also true of the B&O plasmas I've seen, but that is the only other exception.

I suppose it IS my heavy usage of non-video imagery that really makes the difference for me. Most plasmas really fall down in this area. I mean, 1080p is a nice feature, but in the face of other issues, it's certainly not critical. The Pioneer has a very pure image with the least noise I've seen in a plasma.

Well dark1x, since I'm not a gamer I am not familiar with the issues you've raised. For video and movie viewing, the Samsungs offer unsurpassed picture quality. As attested to by myself and others here, we have seen others react positively to PQ of these sets even when next to the much hyped Pioneers.

Well dark1x, since I'm not a gamer I am not familiar with the issues you've raised. For video and movie viewing, the Samsungs offer unsurpassed picture quality. As attested to by myself and others here, we have seen others react positively to PQ of these sets even when next to the much hyped Pioneers.

I also agree that they perform very well with video based content.

One thing that bugs me, however, is that people almost seem to be viewing the Samsung as an underdog. The Pioneer is constantly referred to as "hyped" in an almost derogatory fashion. It just comes off as if people are actively attempting to slam these panels. I don't feel that a lot of people are giving these displays a fair shake.

Now, granted, it's difficult to do that when you only own one. If you know the right people, however, spending a lot of time with another panel isn't too difficult. The Samsung people are raving about had serious issues that, in my eyes, would never work in my situation. Video content has a very different requirement and flaws are rarely brought to the surface. Computer and video games work these panels much harder. If you really want to see a cheaper panel fall apart, that's the type of content that will do it. The Samsung isn't a cheap panel, but its performance in this area left a lot to be desired. I'm on my 3rd plasma and escaping these incredibly irritating flaws it part of the reason why. I simply don't understand WHY people never notice these things. Reviews almost NEVER make mention of such flaws, yet they are as plain as day to me. When panels selling for 20k have this issue, you really have to wonder what people are thinking. This is why I've become a fan of the Pioneer. They clearly have realized that this is not an acceptable situation and have addressed it as all of my plasma complaints are solved with their 8th generation panels.

How the hell did you come up with that? The Samsung exhibits a lot of dithering noise in dark material (typical of many plasmas)..hmm sorry the 5084 does not have that issue
, offers a lower contrast ratio,..Ouch you need to read the 5084 specs:)
and lesser processing...hmm 18 color processing bit is bad lol....Once again your missing the boat.Rememebr were talking 1080p 24fps.
Another flaw that bothers me can be seen if you have multiple high contrast objects on screen...Dud your lost lol ...once again your not talking about the 5084
A black box in the middle of a white image will cause horizontal lines to be drawn across the white area resulting in a less than pure image..dark1x you have a great user name but your post have no fact...Nice try though :D


, One problem with the Pioneer is that the Sharpness control is not what actually adjusts that particular setting. Sharpness allows very subtle adjustment, but an option under Advanced allows you to select three different display modes (sharp, medium, and blurry). Selecting setting 1 results in an incredibly sharp image...but a lot of people don't seem to realize this..Not an insult but CC and BB need someone with your knowledge on how to set up the 5080 because dude...The 5084 has a much sharper image,less noise,real life color.

, I don't understand how "dark dithering" can be ignored by so many people when it is even present with high-end brands (Fujitsu, for example). The Fuji everyone was raving about has this same issue and it drives me insane. As a gamer, I view a lot of imagery that should be completely devoid of pixel noise and this flaws rears its head constantly in such situations. The Pioneer panel is one of the ONLY plasmas I've used that does not suffer from this. From what I could tell, this was also true of the B&O plasmas I've seen, but that is the only other exception..Games are nice yet blu-ray 1080p is much nicer:D...Give it a try for you might like.

, I suppose it IS my heavy usage of non-video imagery that really makes the difference for me. Most plasmas really fall down in this area. I mean, 1080p is a nice feature, but in the face of other issues, it's certainly not critical. The Pioneer has a very pure image with the least noise I've seen in a plasma.lol lol great post but your missing the point.80% of post in this thread say your wrong....What are the odds of that lol lol
dark1x we need to play more often.your very entertaining.
P-Cheerleaders...you got to love them.

Alright. That was...odd.

How the hell did you come up with that? The Samsung exhibits a lot of dithering noise in dark material (typical of many plasmas), offers a lower contrast ratio, and lesser processing. Another flaw that bothers me can be seen if you have multiple high contrast objects on screen. A black box in the middle of a white image will cause horizontal lines to be drawn across the white area resulting in a less than pure image.

One problem with the Pioneer is that the Sharpness control is not what actually adjusts that particular setting. Sharpness allows very subtle adjustment, but an option under Advanced allows you to select three different display modes (sharp, medium, and blurry). Selecting setting 1 results in an incredibly sharp image...but a lot of people don't seem to realize this.

I don't understand how "dark dithering" can be ignored by so many people when it is even present with high-end brands (Fujitsu, for example). The Fuji everyone was raving about has this same issue and it drives me insane. As a gamer, I view a lot of imagery that should be completely devoid of pixel noise and this flaws rears its head constantly in such situations. The Pioneer panel is one of the ONLY plasmas I've used that does not suffer from this. From what I could tell, this was also true of the B&O plasmas I've seen, but that is the only other exception.

I suppose it IS my heavy usage of non-video imagery that really makes the difference for me. Most plasmas really fall down in this area. I mean, 1080p is a nice feature, but in the face of other issues, it's certainly not critical. The Pioneer has a very pure image with the least noise I've seen in a plasma.

Very good write up Dark1. :) You are one of the guys who seem to know alot about plasmas and general and one of the few who I would listen intently to in terms of impressions. I too see dithering noise on the Samsung 5064.. not 84 (I haven't taken a close look yet.) But the one at work defintely has noise in dark areas. The EDTV Panasonic plasma at my work also has this issue.

My previous Pio 5071 was also devoid of this issue, although I saw some PWM noise... more so than some other plasmas.

dark1x sounds like your a serious gamer.Do use pc, ps3,360 or all of the above ?

My previous Pio 5071 was also devoid of this issue, although I saw some PWM noise... more so than some other plasmas.
Yeah, the **71 series had a lot of PWM noise that has, thankfully, been solved with the **81 series (OK, it's there, but it's very minor and nothing like the 71 series and more like every other plasma).

I'm going to have to go back and make certain I was looking at a 5084, though. It was basically a new Samsung 1080p plasma that I had never seen before, but I did not have a chance to determine which model. Based on that, I assumed it to be the new Sammy. Perhaps I've made a mistake, in which case, I apologize and will make certain I properly judge the 84. I'm still feeling that it was an 84, though, as it was only added very recently.

dark1x sounds like your a serious gamer.Do use pc, ps3,360 or all of the above ?
PC, PS3, 360, and even the Wii. :P I actually have all of those along with a Dreamcast and Japanese PS2 attached to my 5080.

dark1x,

I'm shopping for my HDTV and I'm planning on doing mostly PC gaming (FPS games) and i'm torn between Plasma's blacks and fast response time and LCD's lack of burn-in and contrast-ratios..
Would you say that most high-end LCDs have as much noise as the panny plasmas for example? I'm like you as in I won't accept noise where there shouldn't be! (Games)

I wish I could just buy a Pio 1080p but that's just not possible unfortunately (I need to upgrade my PC for the incoming waves of games!)

Thanks,

dark1x,

I'm shopping for my HDTV and I'm planning on doing mostly PC gaming (FPS games) and i'm torn between Plasma's blacks and fast response time and LCD's lack of burn-in and contrast-ratios..
Would you say that most high-end LCDs have as much noise as the panny plasmas for example? I'm like you as in I won't accept noise where there shouldn't be! (Games)

I wish I could just buy a Pio 1080p but that's just not possible unfortunately (I need to upgrade my PC for the incoming waves of games!)

Thanks,

If you're going to be using it as a computer monitor a fair bit, especially using the desktop, you should go with LCD. There's too much risk of burn in with the PC destop up a lot.

Well, I'm not sure I would surf to program from the couch but mostly gaming so I doubt I would get major burn-in that way...

If you're going to be using it as a computer monitor a fair bit, especially using the desktop, you should go with LCD. There's too much risk of burn in with the PC destop up a lot.

I totally agree. Add to that, the new LCD sets also offer very good film and video performance though plasma is still better there IMHO.

Well, I'm not sure I would surf to program from the couch but mostly gaming so I doubt I would get major burn-in that way...

Well if you're simply going to be launching games it shouldn't be an issue. Just remember not to leave to desktop up for extended periods. The best thing plasma has over LCD is the lack of motion blur, fast moving stuff looks way better.

I'm considering these two TVs as well.....

How much of a difference does the 1080p vs. 720p make? I'll be sitting about 8' away I guess. I like the 1080p feature of the same price.

I'm considering these two TVs as well.....

How much of a difference does the 1080p vs. 720p make? I'll be sitting about 8' away I guess. I like the 1080p feature of the same price.

You have to consider the overall PQ and black levels as well. And the 5080HD is a great display. You can also check out the 5010FD if you really would like 1080P. Have you looked at these sets?

You have to consider the overall PQ and black levels as well. And the 5080HD is a great display. You can also check out the 5010FD if you really would like 1080P. Have you looked at these sets?


I think the 5010 might be out of my budget, I'd like to stay under $2600. Roman, can you please PM me with your price on the 5084? I already know your price on the 5080.

Thanks!

I'm currently considering these two sets... If I can get the pio for less than the sammy would it be a no brainer? I will be using a blu-ray and motorola STB with a sitting distance of 10-12ft.

One is 1080P and one is not, the question becomes if you really need 1080P or not and which display looks better to you. I have seen many people use a blue ray with the 5080 and love it.

If you're going to be using it as a computer monitor a fair bit, especially using the desktop, you should go with LCD. There's too much risk of burn in with the PC destop up a lot.

I wouldn't worry too much about that.

My primary PC is attached to my 5080 and I use it all the time for lengthy sessions. 3 hours of PC usage without the orbiter (which is disabled in PC mode) and I saw absolutely no IR. This was not the case with previous plasmas I've used (not even close), but it seems to work well for the 8g Pioneer panels.

PC usage simply isn't a problem.

dark1x:

Thanks. that re-assures me a bit... But would you say it's specific to Pioneer's plasma only? (better phosphours?)

Thanks,

I wouldn't worry too much about that.

My primary PC is attached to my 5080 and I use it all the time for lengthy sessions. 3 hours of PC usage without the orbiter (which is disabled in PC mode) and I saw absolutely no IR. This was not the case with previous plasmas I've used (not even close), but it seems to work well for the 8g Pioneer panels.

PC usage simply isn't a problem.

Dark1x,

Seeing as you practically the only person I've come across that uses the 5080with a PC (and trust me I've been asking). Even though the set is 768P is web surfing etc bearable? I don't plan to edit spreadsheets or anything, I just want to launch some music, run a screen saver, check out some websites. The rest is gaming, tv and movies.

Cheers,

Detox

dark1x:

Thanks. that re-assures me a bit... But would you say it's specific to Pioneer's plasma only? (better phosphours?)

Thanks,
I would say YES to that - there is absolutely no IR on the 8G Kuro Pioneers, unlike the Sammy 5084 although IR is minute. But again for the huge premium price of the Pioneer, they better not have any IR! ;)

I would say YES to that - there is absolutely no IR on the 8G Kuro Pioneers, unlike the Sammy 5084 although IR is minute. But again for the huge premium price of the Pioneer, they better not have any IR! ;)BriS2K you are absolutely wrong.There is IR on the 8G after a few secs depending what image is displayed....How do I know?? My brother has and 8G .
This is a great AV thread and there is no need to deceive members Bri.

The PIO Mafia will say anything to sell lol lol ,,Pretty amazing really

Ok..... I found the Pioneer mob boss :eek: and this is what he says coming from PIO head quarters displayed on the 5080.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzxHDqUz8Sk


P.S
Bring on the PIO hit men Max for I am ready :)

Although I am far from an expert, I compared these two sets at a BB today and left my comments in the 5084 thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11668224#post11668224

Although I am far from an expert, I compared these two sets at a BB today and left my comments in the 5084 thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11668224#post11668224

Good post.

Edit

Romans alright, he just prefers pioneer. Thats what he recomends and thats cool. I own a samsung, (5084) I bought it not because it is what I could aford but because I liked it and I was comfortable paying the price for its performance. Thats my preference and nobody is really wrong. In the future, probably sooner than later I will buy a pioneer and it will most likely be from roman.

Romans alright, he just prefers pioneer. Thats what he recomends and thats cool. I own a samsung, (5084) I bought it not because it is what I could aford but because I liked it and I was comfortable paying the price for its performance. Thats my preference and nobody is really wrong. In the future, probably sooner than later I will buy a pioneer and it will most likely be from roman.yep romans a great guy.sma should of shared his great plasma knowledge in this thread yet decided to post link here to the 5084 thread and roman approved congratulating him for his post.
If that's what it takes to sell a kuro I'm sure many will buy.

And for all that take the 5084 link start a Page #1 of thread and read.You will find 99% of the owners are very happy with there 5084 by not needing to dig picture settings up to get a great picture.

Then take a cruzz over to the 5080 thread and really see how happy the owners are trying to tweak there set to get a good picture.you will also find they like to brag about a name called pioneer but hey this is the good part.Consumer reports gave the Samsung 5064 a better rating then the 5080...how amazing as they grasp for identity for it is lost

yep romans a great guy.sma should of shared his great plasma knowledge in this thread yet decided to post link here to the 5084 thread and roman approved congratulating him for his post.
If that's what it takes to sell a kuro I'm sure many will buy.I dont really like that much myself. I agree with you there sling. However I like my set so much I have become desensitized to people trashing my set.

Edit

Roman Why would that be a great post in the 5084 owner thread when it should be were it belongs hmm this thread.You supporting such actions discredits you and your valued post count as a whole becomes very sad.All Respect is lost my friend :(
sma has a new name called kuro troll so you supporting him makes you the same...very sad day indeed for AV

I meant good post here (I dont care where he posted it I just read it here). Everyone has an opinion so why am I getting judged for having one? There is no reason you should be coming at me this way :)

yep romans a great guy.sma should of shared his great plasma knowledge in this thread yet decided to post link here to the 5084 thread and roman approved congratulating him for his post.
If that's what it takes to sell a kuro I'm sure many will buy.

And for all that take the 5084 link start a Page #1 of thread and read.You will find 99% of the owners are very happy with there 5084 by not needing to dig picture settings up to get a great picture.

Then take a cruzz over to the 5080 thread and really see how happy the owners are trying to tweak there set to get a good picture.you will also find they like to brag about a name called pioneer but hey this is the good part.Consumer reports gave the Samsung 5064 a better rating then the 5080...how amazing as they grasp for identity for it is lost

But the Panasonic TVs are the best TVs apparently according to Consumer Report. Do you agree there? :) BTW, Roman is a great guy. And he's as honest as they come. He doesn't just sell Pioneer TVs.

We can agree the Bengals defense is horrible at least. :) Yes please, keep it light hearted. We're friends right Slingbox?

Roman Why would that be a great post in the 5084 owner thread when it should be were it belongs hmm this thread.You supporting such actions discredits you and your valued post count as a whole becomes very sad.All Respect is lost my friend :(
sma has a new name called kuro troll so you supporting him makes you the same...very sad day indeed for AV

Sling, you are quite off on trolling I assure you. I explained right in the beginning of that post that I posted in the other thread because that is where I asked for the info for the settings to use in a BB and upon getting them from draposo, he asked me to report back with my thoughts. SO I DID! Jeez the post was barely negative to the 5084. I just happened to prefer the 5080 over the other. I see you spouting your preference towards your 5084.... I have no bias... I have not purchased yet. I decided to give the 5084 an honest look. Might want to settle down with who you are calling troll.

Only a couple hours after I replied to the request from draposo did I go searching for this thread and I figured I'd link to it since it had some objective info in it. YES, it was objective info.

Edit

I have no problem with SMAs post (or Roman's appreciation of it) it was well thought out and honest. There was no indication that he was trolling. He gave great feedback.
It was his opinion and there is nothing wring with that. People have to realize that there are a LOT of great TVs out there. The Samsung and Pioneer being just two of them. They all have pluses and minuses. To those who want strong blacks the Pioneer is going to win. That's fine. If money was no object I probably would own a 1080p Pioneer, but Roman's prices aren't THAT good!!
It's clear that Roman prefers the Pioneer, but he has his own reasons as well.
These threads are becoming less about how to get the most out of our HT and more about who's ball is bigger.
It's a shame really. I am looking to make what I have the best it can be ... not better than someone else's.

That's fine. If money was no object I probably would own a 1080p Pioneer, but Roman's prices aren't THAT good!!
It's clear that Roman prefers the Pioneer, but he has his own reasons as well.
These threads are becoming less about how to get the most out of our HT and more about who's ball is bigger.
It's a shame really. I am looking to make what I have the best it can be ... not better than someone else's.

Prices on what? I think you need to start to do research again if you are talking about my Pioneer pricing. There will always be lower pricing with no warranty, good luck you get what you pay for. But I love everyone :)

Prices on what? I think you need to start to do research again if you are talking about my Pioneer pricing. There will always be lower pricing with no warranty, good luck you get what you pay for. But I love everyone :)

ROMAN,

It was a joke that meant to say that even your good prices on Pioneer TVs can't bring the 1080p sets into MY price range. (If I am right the 1080p sets are up around 4K, no? Your price on the 5080 is excellent and it was just a little out of my reach. I drew a line in the sand and it didn't reach.

ROMAN,

It was a joke that meant to say that even your good prices on Pioneer TVs can't bring the 1080p sets into MY price range. (If I am right the 1080p sets are up around 4K, no? Your price on the 5080 is excellent and it was just a little out of my reach. I drew a line in the sand and it didn't reach.

;) I am begging Pioneer to drop the price I think it is time. I have a good feeling about it. No worries :)

;) I am begging Pioneer to drop the price I think it is time. I have a good feeling about it. No worries :)

Pio really missed the mark on that one. I've seen it and to say I was unimpressed would be an understatement. They really built their name on the 5080 and now look like they're trying to cash in on it. I remember reading a post from a Pio 'expert' here saying the 5010 was basically a 5080 with 1080p and fundamentally, it was the same set with higher res. Not sure how that equates to $4k+....

Pio really missed the mark on that one. I've seen it and to say I was unimpressed would be an understatement. They really built their name on the 5080 and now look like they're trying to cash in on it. I remember reading a post from a Pio 'expert' here saying the 5010 was basically a 5080 with 1080p and fundamentally, it was the same set with higher res. Not sure how that equates to $4k+....

I am assuming you are talking MSRP ;)

Edit

Roman

Can you email me your price on a 5080?

posted earlier in this thread, a week or two ago..

here is my take, I have gone to BB least a dozen times, they have the Sammy 5084-1080p right next to the Pio 5080-720p, and the Sammy is sharper and the black levels are as close as they can get to the Pio, the Pio does have a BIT darker blacks, which does not warrant the huge price difference, especially in today PDP market, with so many to chose from, and the technology still being improved, meaning prices are always on the decline, why should I pay $1,000 more for a PDP when in 6 months to one year, a new better PDP will be out. To some the extra $1,000 is no problem, but to the MAJORITY of us, who don't have that money tree in the backyard, why not get a great looking PDP to enjoy your favorite programing on, and the money saved can pay for the cable-Satellite bill for one year.

flash forward to today, cybertec posted this in another thread:

.... the KURO slogan they use is not a joke, the other day I was at BB "been there more than a dozen times looking at these new PDP's", they had the Sammy 1080p/5084 on top of the Pio 5080/768p and right next to the Pio was a Panny 58PZ700u/1080p, they where showing the usual Direct TV HD Promos, NFL ticket Footbal and the sort, all three sets looked pretty similar, until this happened, OMG.... a KURO commercial "bad news for the other PDP's" of this Samurai with a Samurai sword in a pitch black room, playing around with the sword by waving it all over the place, then using this chaulk bag to powder the blade "with the white powder floating in the air", the first thing that struck me was how black the screen was compared to the other panels, the contrast sharpness detail and colors just blew everything away, the black levels where above and beyond the other PDP's, the others in comparison looked like a real dark floating grey.
Not until I saw this promo KURO commercial "showing what this KURO is all about", what this set is really capable of, this sets PQ is second to none by a mile, I have been looking at the Sammy and Panny for the longest now and was close to pulling the trigger on either of these units, till I saw that promo, now there is NO OTHER CHOICE, it's the new KURO Pio for me, just need to save a bit more.


bottom line: with any panels you might be considering, you really must view them several times, and even better, in a few different retail locations before making your final assessment of relative picture quality. Short of that, you're throwing caution (and dollars) to the wind. Chances are, you will be quite happy no matter what you go with, as these are all reasonably good displays, maybe even across-the-board very good. However, if you care enough to want to be sure that you are making the absolute right decision for YOU, nothing short of plentiful audition time and better yet, making reasonable attempts to optimize picture settings for the panels under consideration, will provide you with that certainty.

;) I am begging Pioneer to drop the price I think it is time. I have a good feeling about it. No worries :)

Lol, can you do some begging to Pioneer Europe too?

(street)prices here in the Netherlands (incl. 19%VAT)

Pioneer 5010 = 5500euro ($7717)
Pioneer 5080 = 3250euro ($4560)

Samsung 5084 = 2400euro ($3367)


Pioneer Europe is screwing us Europeans BIG TIME, serious. The other brands
(Samsung/Panasonic etc. ) the price difference is not so big with the US.

Here's a question I've been wondering...

At 11' which would be the better set if connected to blu ray? ;)

Anyone with the Samsung 5084: how does the Wii over component look? Does Dreamcast work over VGA?

Thanks!

The cnet review of the 5084:
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-fp-t5084/4505-6482_7-32460966.html

Several comments made in comparison to a 5080 they also had to compare with.

I read over this topic and it's extremely difficult to find good opinions! Some say Pioneer has good blacks, others say Samsung has better quality and some say you shouldn't even think about comparing a Pioneer and a Samsung because Pioneer is top notch in picture quality. In my case the Pioneer is just $200 more than the Samsung(5080 vs 5084), but it's still very tough. I don't plan on watching Blu-Ray or HD-DVD but it would still be nice to have for the future.

Can anyone comment on the level of noise between the Samsung and the Pioneer? I was at CC and Best Buy and noticed a fair amount of noise on the Samsung and virtually none on the Pio.

Other than the noise I noticed, I'm concerned with the Sammy over the Pio
for the following reasons:

- More noise
- Super reflective screen - LOTS OF GLARE!
- Black level not as good
- IR (never hear any issues with the Pioneer)

What can you Sammy owners say about these concerns? My ONLY concern with the Pio is not being 1080p.

Thanks,

Steve

Can anyone comment on the level of noise between the Samsung and the Pioneer? I was at CC and Best Buy and noticed a fair amount of noise on the Samsung and virtually none on the Pio.

Other than the noise I noticed, I'm concerned with the Sammy over the Pio
for the following reasons:

- More noise
- Super reflective screen - LOTS OF GLARE!
- Black level not as good
- IR (never hear any issues with the Pioneer)

What can you Sammy owners say about these concerns? My ONLY concern with the Pio is not being 1080p.

Thanks,

Steve

My experience has been that pioneer has less noise than any other set on the mainstream market (other than the rest of the pio's obviously).

The samsung screens do seem to be more reflective across the model line than pioneer or panasonic.

Black isn't as good I agree...

I wouldn't worry about IR on any modern set unless you're doing a lot of PC stuff or gaming for hours on end.

Can anyone comment on the level of noise between the Samsung and the Pioneer? I was at CC and Best Buy and noticed a fair amount of noise on the Samsung and virtually none on the Pio.

Other than the noise I noticed, I'm concerned with the Sammy over the Pio
for the following reasons:

- More noise
- Super reflective screen - LOTS OF GLARE!
- Black level not as good
- IR (never hear any issues with the Pioneer)

What can you Sammy owners say about these concerns? My ONLY concern with the Pio is not being 1080p.

Thanks,

Steve

When did Circuit City start selling Pioneers? Anyway from the tone of your post you should buy Pioneer :cool:

Can anyone comment on the level of noise between the Samsung and the Pioneer? I was at CC and Best Buy and noticed a fair amount of noise on the Samsung and virtually none on the Pio.

Other than the noise I noticed, I'm concerned with the Sammy over the Pio
for the following reasons:

- More noise
- Super reflective screen - LOTS OF GLARE!
- Black level not as good
- IR (never hear any issues with the Pioneer)

What can you Sammy owners say about these concerns? My ONLY concern with the Pio is not being 1080p.

Thanks,

Steve

If you are talking about the Non-Kuro's there is less difference between Pioneer and Samsung. The Pioneers provide the smoothest PQ on the market but with that smoothness is a loss of detail and sharpness. Samsung blows Pioneer away on detail and crispness. The Pioneer also handles SD better than any set this side of Fujitsu. Black levels are acceptable on my Samsung and I like a little reflection in the screen that the Samsung have. Reminiscent of CRTs and provides more depth to the picture than any other set.

If you are talking about the Kuros then it's a different matter. Pioneer Kuro blows Samsung, Hitachi, Panny and all LCDs away. But there is a price for that. With the Kuro the detail missing in other Pioneers is finally back

If you are talking about the Non-Kuro's there is less difference between Pioneer and Samsung. The Pioneers provide the smoothest PQ on the market but with that smoothness is a loss of detail and sharpness. Samsung blows Pioneer away on detail and crispness. The Pioneer also handles SD better than any set this side of Fujitsu. Black levels are acceptable on my Samsung and I like a little reflection in the screen that the Samsung have. Reminiscent of CRTs and provides more depth to the picture than any other set.

If you are talking about the Kuros then it's a different matter. Pioneer Kuro blows Samsung, Hitachi, Panny and all LCDs away. But there is a price for that. With the Kuro the detail missing in other Pioneers is finally back

You're saying the detail that used to be lost (say on the 7g pioneers) is back? You said samsung blows away pioneer on detail/crispness, I would agree with that until the 8g's came out.

Not sure if thats what you're saying or not :confused:

You're saying the detail that used to be lost (say on the 7g pioneers) is back? You said samsung blows away pioneer on detail/crispness, I would agree with that until the 8g's came out.

Not sure if thats what you're saying or not :confused:

On last year's models the Samsung had significantly better detail than the Pioneers (I have owned 2 Elites and 2 Samsungs, 5053 and 5073, and have seen them side-by-side many times). The new Kuros have changed that and the detail equals Samsung plus better video processing and SD. I was a Samsung bigot until the Kuros

On last year's models the Samsung had significantly better detail than the Pioneers (I have owned 2 Elites and 2 Samsungs, 5053 and 5073, and have seen them side-by-side many times). The new Kuros have changed that and the detail equals Samsung plus better video processing and SD. I was a Samsung bigot until the Kuros

Ok, yeah your experience seems to mirror mine with the different sets then :cool:

On last year's models the Samsung had significantly better detail than the Pioneers (I have owned 2 Elites and 2 Samsungs, 5053 and 5073, and have seen them side-by-side many times). The new Kuros have changed that and the detail equals Samsung plus better video processing and SD. I was a Samsung bigot until the Kuros

After seeing the 5084 Samsung side-by-side with the Pioneer 5080, I thought the Pioneer had much better anti-glare and was virtually noise free. The Samsung looked A LOT more detailed probably because it's 1080p. The thing is despite the extra detail, I liked the picture the 768p 5080 provided better. It was just cleaner.

I saw the old 6070 at BB and it did seem to lack the same contrast and clarity the 5080 has.

I don't know, $300 more for the Pioneer 5080 768p seems like a bad decision considering it's becoming a 1080p world.

After seeing the 5084 Samsung side-by-side with the Pioneer 5080, I thought the Pioneer had much better anti-glare and was virtually noise free. The Samsung looked A LOT more detailed probably because it's 1080p. The thing is despite the extra detail, I liked the picture the 768p 5080 provided better. It was just cleaner.

I saw the old 6070 at BB and it did seem to lack the same contrast and clarity the 5080 has.

I don't know, $300 more for the Pioneer 5080 768p seems like a bad decision considering it's becoming a 1080p world.

Sorry I'm going to bring this back up since some people are asking about it.

While paying more for 720p seems like a bad decision, it's more of viewing distance. You don't need 1080p, just something that can accept 1080p. At 50", I wouldn't be too worried. I'm going 58" with 5884, but if it doesn't get to $3000, then I'll be fine with the 5080.

Now I wonder with the Pioneer 5080 HUGE price drops how this thread might change. Right now, I own a Samsung FP-T5084 (Yes...I really like it) but I have 3 stuck pixels & the set is only 7 days old. Now I can choose (price wise) between the two. I'll be heading to BB tomorrow to look over the Pioneer 5080 & I might buy it to replace the Sammy 5084. I really do like the Sammy! Bummed out I scored the stuck pixels!

Wow, that is awesome. I would have killed for that price awhile ago. Now I can't get past the 720p. I know everyone says it doesn't matter, but I will be sitting within 10 feet and plan on being even closer when I play videogames. I'd be BB today if Pioneer had dropped the 5010 to within 1k of the 5080. I understand that 1080p cost more to make, but can anyone explain why Pioneer dropped the 5080 so much and left the retail price of the 5010 at TWICE AS MUCH?! Surely there isn't a 2k plus difference in cost on the manufacturing side. WHat is the deal? Will a 5010 price cut soon follow?

WHat is the deal? Will a 5010 price cut soon follow?

I give up guessing what they will do :)

Well, I went into BB yesterday and purchased a 5080. The price had dropped in-store and was even cheaper online. BB gave me the online price. I know it's difficult to tell without true video sources, but no TV came close to matching the blacks on any of the three Kuros on the wall. I liked the 5084 and gave it a close look due to the endorsements on this forum, but I preferred the picture on the 5080 and the price drop sealed the deal.

Earlier in the day, the price had dropped even further to match an competitor (at least that's what they told me), but that was temporary. With the price matching, though, I'll be watching like a hawk to see if it goes down even further over the next two months.

Delivery is Saturday. This is my first HDTV purchase. Now I'm planning to purchase an HD-DVD player...

Well, I went into BB yesterday and purchased a 5080. The price had dropped in-store and was even cheaper online. BB gave me the online price. I know it's difficult to tell without true video sources, but no TV came close to matching the blacks on any of the three Kuros on the wall. I liked the 5084 and gave it a close look due to the endorsements on this forum, but I preferred the picture on the 5080 and the price drop sealed the deal.

Earlier in the day, the price had dropped even further to match an competitor (at least that's what they told me), but that was temporary. With the price matching, though, I'll be watching like a hawk to see if it goes down even further over the next two months.

Delivery is Saturday. This is my first HDTV purchase. Now I'm planning to purchase an HD-DVD player...

I am in the same boat as you. Went to BB yesterday and got the 5080, could not resist any longer. I pick mine up next Saturday :). I too will be paying very close attention to prices in case of another drop. I was also eying the 5084 as it looked very nice... from ~6 feet away I could see that text on the 5084 looked crisper but to me, overall the Pioneer looked better on all the demo material they played.

My wife thought the trim on the Samsung made it look cheap, and preferred the look of the Pioneer... however I do have to say that if the 5080 did not exist, I would be quite happy with the 5084. It is a nice set.

Agreed. Congrats on your purchase!

Now I wonder with the Pioneer 5080 HUGE price drops how this thread might change. Right now, I own a Samsung FP-T5084 (Yes...I really like it) but I have 3 stuck pixels & the set is only 7 days old. Now I can choose (price wise) between the two. I'll be heading to BB tomorrow to look over the Pioneer 5080 & I might buy it to replace the Sammy 5084. I really do like the Sammy! Bummed out I scored the stuck pixels!
id take it back and just exchange it
the 5084 sammy blows me away everytime i watch it.sorry u got stuck with the bad pixels i would just exchange it.

Is anybody taking advantage of the HDA at BB? I've seen where people are getting $600 off on the 5080.With the super low 2k price at BB coupled with using this promotion. This could just be the best deal at least for awhile. Here's the link that explains the BB HDA promo. Good luck with your purchase..

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=651004

I'm still thinking if i should get a 5080 or a 5084!1 I went to Ultimate Electronics today and they had the 5080 for below $2k for five hours yesterday... I would have exchanged my Sony 46w3000 for it. Their set up for the Sammy 5084 was horrible and i couldnt judge it correctly. I'm going back to best buy tomorrow to see to compare them again.

I like how colorful the 5084 sets are, but the blacks are better on the 5080. I care more about the colors, but the blacks are important to me. Ugh!1

[edit]

What is HDA? or rather, which promotion are you talking about?

;) I am begging Pioneer to drop the price I think it is time. I have a good feeling about it. No worries :)

Hey Rome....I think you have your wish on the 80 series. ;)

Chris

Hello all. First post on this forum, which has been extremely helpful to me over the last few weeks as I did some preliminary legwork before jumping into hi-def land. Thanks to them's what knows and take the time to share their knowledge here.

Background: we are in the midst of putting a new addition on the house that includes a new family room off the kitchen. For the last 12 years or so we have been the proud owners of a very simple GE 27" CRT - that should tell you something about my depth of knowledge re: plasma TV. Anyway, after pumping 6 figures into the house, it seemed a no-brainer to drop some money on a new TV and move the old warhorse up to the new bedroom. We both are huge football fans - Patriot watchers and Boston College season ticket holders - and had oohed and aahed over hi-def broadcasts of our favorite sport while out in local watering holes.

After reading thousands of posts here, CNET and other reviews, etc. etc. etc. etc., but before heading out to the stores, I had pretty much selected the Samsung 5084 as the odds-on favorite. Many folks absolutely loved the colors, it seemed to be absent some of the issues involved with the 5044-54-64 lines, and the unit really seemed to provide the best value in 50" 1080p. Not that I was absolutely wed to 1080p, as viewing distances in the new room will be approximately 7-10 feet and we watch mostly sports and network stuff, with no gaming and not much by way of DVD - but I figured it couldn't hurt to have it.

I went to CC first, and really liked the set. The sales guy let me play with the remote, and, using some of the settings posted on other threads here, I brought the 5084 out of torch mode down to contrast color levels that seemed pretty easy on the eyes while remaining vibrant. I liked it quite a bit better than the comparably-priced Panasonic TH50PZ77U, which I thought was kind of sterile color-wise, at least in comparison to the 5084. I thought the 5084 had a slight edge in black but that it was significantly better than the 77U in other colors, that the clarity of the picture was about even, and that they both handled rapid motion well.

After that visit, I didn't really think a picture could exist that was much better than the 5084's, and was about 90% convinced that this would be the one. But before I opened my wallet, I figured I needed to see one of the vaunted Pioneer 50" sets, and in particular the 5080 (the 5010 is priced well beyond what I want to spend, and it didn't seem that 1080p would be a necessity at our viewing distances). So off to the local Best Buy I went.

I was fortunate that the store had the 5084 and 5080 next to each other on the wall, which made comparing the two very easy. Both sets were looping a BB video with various ads, etc., with two different football segments showing highlights of Appalachians State's upset of Michigan earlier this year and some NFL video (I forget which teams).

I stood at varying distances to see whether there was a significant difference resolution-wise between the 5080's 720p and the 5084's 1080p. At around 6' and closer, the pixel edges on the 5080 became noticeable to my eyes, about a foot and a half or so farther away than did the 5084's. This was not a big deal to me, as we will be viewing in the 7-10' range.

As for picture quality, my first impressions were that the 5084 green and red colors were more vibrant, but that the 5080 was smoother in reproducing motion and did have a noticeably deeper black. The NFL video showed a receiver running for a score at field level, and when I focused on the 5084 I noticed that the back lines of the receiver as he ran seemed slightly jagged against the sideline background, while the 5080 seemed flawless. The UM v. A State clips were shot in VERY bright sunlight, and the 5084 seemed to not resolve things with large blocks of contrasting colors like Michigan's uniforms during a sideline shot as cleanly as the 5080.

I then grabbed the remotes and of course found the 5084 super-torched, and backed it down. Oddly, the store folks had left 5080 in relatively bland settings, so I fiddled around and lit it up a little bit. After get the sets to settings that I guessed were roughly similar, I began to really attempt to distinguish between the two.

After about half an hour of comparison, I noted the following:

overall, the 5084 colors seem more vibrant, but not by a ton. Actually, while watching a snowboarding segment, the color I thought the 5084 had a fairly clear edge on was white. The 5084 white color actually wasn't far off the Sony LCD set perched above it that was the brightest set in the whole display area, so kudos to the 5084 on that score. The 5084's reds and greens were marginally more vibrant than the 5080's, but not enough to really make a big difference to me.

The 5080 black was clearly superior to me - not that I would necessarily notice this as much if I did not have the two sets perched against each other, but head-to-head, there is a noticeable difference.

I thought the 5080 handle rapid motion significantly better than the 5084 did, and at the viewing distances we'll be using I thought overall it provided a clearer picture.

That night, I brought my better half in to take a look just for chuckles. She is someone who is basically a Luddite and will tell me straight to my face that she can't really tell the difference between an excellent home stereo system and the factory one in her car. So naturally she was grumbling that I was wasting her shopping time since she wouldn't be able to notice anything anyway, and that I should just get whatever I liked best...but I dragged her in anyway. To my surprise, after about fifteen seconds she declared that the 5080 was hands-down the better set, with a much smoother picture. She even said "There's just no comparison - get that one," pointed to the 5080, and said "Can I go next door to Bed, Bath and Beyond now?"

I said "not yet" and made her watch the video loop a couple of times so she could see the all-important football segments, and the more she watched, the more vehement she became that the 5080 was the better set and that I was wasting her precious shopping time. Who knew?

So to conclude, the 5080 is the one for me. I still think the 5084 provides excellent value for the cost, and if I were someone for whom 1080p would make a huge difference then that's the set I would get - but for my personal needs and viewing habits, the 5080 was the clear winner.

If you can get it online-priced match, you can get the Samsung 58" 5884 for $2900. Size will be more noticeable and much more of a wow factor than blacks. No matter which TV you get, you won't be wishing you had better picture quality or blacks(because it already looks great and you don't have the other TV next to it to compare in your home), but you will be wishing that you had a bigger size TV.

...you will be wishing that you had a bigger size TV.

At my viewing distance of 7-10 feet, with anything bigger than a 50", I'd be diving out of the way every time there was replay of a pulling guard, I think.

But just in case I'm mistaken, the wall mount I'm getting will take up to 63" and 200 lbs.

Hey Rome....I think you have your wish on the 80 series. ;)

Chris

Yea but it was not expected and not sure how I feel about it now in regards to the timing. I think it was a mistake by them.

I use to own a Sony sxrd 70 inch rptv (main ht monitor) and was very happy with the set until the lamp failure. At $500 replacement cost on the lamp, I decide to upgrade. I did my research and decided on the pio 5010. So boxing day I went to a pio dealer. The dealer gave a great price, but the price for the 6010 was even better. So I bought the 6010. While at the store I saw the Sammy 5084 for less than $2000 and decide to buy it also (to replace bedroom Sammy 46 inch dlp).

After a week of viewing heaven, I decided to post my view on both tvs.

The pio 6010 does an incredible job on almost every HD content (blu-ray, hd-dvd, hd tv, ps3, xbox 360) with the exception of sports. I feel that this tv is above average on this point. I like watching my sports in vibrant colors.

The sammy 5084 also is incredible with the exception of movies. Don't get me wrong the sammy does an excellent job, but I got spoiled with pio deep blacks and more natural colors.

Conclusion: The pio 6010 is absolutely amazing watching movies, but I prefer the sammy 5084 watching hockey/sports due to sammy more vibrant colors.

P.S. I did break in the tvs in and then calibrated them to close as possble on all viewing.