Hello all!

Recently, I have seen the number of posts requesting information on this company and its products begin to pile up. I assume this is because, like me, many of you have decided/are deciding to make the move to a Scope or CIH theater setup. So, being a new owner of a Home Theater Brothers (HTB) AR lens, I felt this would be the perfect opportunity to start a thread where any and all HTB-related discussion/questioning/mental wandering can take place. As there is a recognized lack of information currently available, I hope this thread is able to provide everything you are looking for!

I will be posting my own experience, from first contact with the company, to my first impressions of lens performance and beyond, in this thread. I also want to disclose that I am in no way affiliated with HTB, or the brothers themselves, and will be sharing my actual impressions, whether positive or negative.

Please post early and often!

Buck

Hey Buck,

Excellent timing for this thread. I anticipate the purchase of the HD or HD+ in the near future. Could you also outline the differences/benefits between the two?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Bob

As I said above, having just purchased the AR lens from HTB, I wanted to help shed some light on this company for other forum users who are researching CIH.

I found HTB through an online audio/video sales site, and though the posting was somewhat outdated, I opted to contact the seller since the price seemed right. Randy (one of the two brothers) responded very quickly, and was extremely helpful in answering my questions. In fact, while the posting said the lens was one price, and obviously I was interested enough at that price to contact them, he almost immediately pointed out that there was a promotion going on and the price was now much lower, and included shipping. Knowing nothing else about them, I at least knew that they were the lowest priced NEW anamorphic lens that I had found.

This was important because I am putting together a theater from scratch, and not just looking to upgrade an existing system to CIH, so money was going to be an important factor. Randy seemed to understand this, and even offered his own opinions and experiences to help with these other purchases. I had not yet made any commitment to purchase his product at this point, so again, I was impressed with the level of service I was receiving. This is what ultimately sold me on the company, and the AR lens, because I knew that I wasn't going to have the opportunity to test it out before buying, nor find much information from other owners. But, if they were willing to put forth this level of effort before the sale, I felt comfortable with expecting that level of service would be there after the sale.

My point is this: when shopping on the internet, there are certain limitations you have to expect. You can't touch, twist, eyeball, or have any reasonable physical contact with the actual product you're thinking of purchasing. So, customer service then becomes a huge part of the buying experience, far more so than in the brick and mortar world. In this respect, I don't think someone considering an anamorphic lens can go wrong by looking to HTB. If my experience is any measure, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

I'm setting the lens up in my theater tonight, and will provide a review of the performance very soon. But,for now, I hope the above review gets a dialog going on this thread, and gets a few other owners to chime in.

Buck

Buck

Post a few Pics of your setup once you have a review for us

Buck,
Please tell us about the quality of the lens and your setup. Can you compare it to other lenses?
thanks,
Jeff

Buck

Post a few Pics of your setup once you have a review for us

I definitely will. Expect to have those tomorrow night. These darn weekdays seem to get in the way of me completing the setup!

Buck,
Please tell us about the quality of the lens and your setup. Can you compare it to other lenses?
thanks,
Jeff

Yes, I will be able to offer comparisons, though limited. I have a friend with a Prismasonic, so I can make some comparisons there. If I can secure any demo lenses from other manufacturers, I will use those for comparison as well! Without having it setup in my system, I can tell you this...the AR seems to be
of very quality construction. The housing is thick, and has good weight. The actual lens does not appear to have any flaws, at least not that are noticeable to the naked eye. I don't want to make any assumptions, just telling you my initial impressions. The included directions make setup seem pretty straightforward, and I am looking forward to testing just how straightforward!

I will post back very soon, and if any other questions, or things you'd like me to test, just let me know.

Buck

Sorry, forgot to answer the part about my setup...I will be using this lens with a BenQ PE8720, and Elite Cinemascope 115" diagonal 2.35:1 screen. I'll get some screenshots along with pics of the setup.

Buck

Buck

Wheres are update :confused:

ditto:)

Hello!

Sorry for the delay...it's been hectic around here. I'll have a full review posted shortly, but in the meantime I will say this...I am very pleased with my purchase. The quality, especially for the money, seems excellent.

Buck

Hey buck, I live in cottage grove, mn and I am also leaning towards getting the improved anamorphic lens from home theatre brothers. I am going to pair it with the benqw9000, so I hope your results are positive. Hope to check back here soon and see.

Wow, I'm from Hastings, small world. I honestly have nothing to add to this topic really, other than I've been looking at CIH for a while but the lens' are always too spendy for my blood. Cheers!

Ok folks! I've got my HTB Lens all set up and I'm ready to review this puppy! Is this the proper thread? Are there any rules about posting photos that I should be aware of? Anyone interested?

Of course! Please post up a review. I'm very interested in it and I'm sure there are a bunch of others interested as well!

Be sure to do some tests for chromatic aberations at the edges of the screen. The only thing I can think about posting pictures is to post a lot of them. Oh and use a tripod and a timer so the camera is steady.

I saw one of these lenses at cedia. Please let me know what you see in the following areas
1 - loss of contrast when the lense is in place
2 - extent of chromatic aberation at the edges of the picture
3 - how much pincusion

The one that I saw wasn't setup optimally. I looked to me like it did exactly what it was supposed to. It delivered a pretty crisp 2.35 image! The comparison would be to the panamorph (about $3k) that really does produce an exceptional image.

I really would like to see a test pattern that shows resolution at screen center and at screen edges.

I wont have my lens until next weekend
Z

So where are the reviews?

For those of you interested in the Home Theater Brother's (HTB) anamorphic lens, I'd like to offer my recent experience. I purchased my HTB lens almost a couple of weeks ago now and have had a chance to really get to know it's strengths and weaknesses.

I purchased my HTB lens from Randy using his web site's posted email. Since the moment that I contacted him, his communication and professionalism has been top notch. Perhaps it's because HTB is a small outfit, but I really feel like I've been given one on one attention throughout the entire purchase.

I spent the extra money and bought the Anti Reflective version of his lens. It's said to have better light transmission qualities and at the price point that we're talking, I figured an extra 20% was well worth the extra quality.

Randy packaged up the lens with plenty of peanuts and shipped it out to me on the same day I ordered it. It arrived very quickly and after I pulled it out and gave it a good once over, it basically sat on a shelf waiting for my brand new RS1 to arrive.

In the meantime, I inspected the quality of the lens. HTB has created an extremely solid metal housing that, while simple, is elegant and functional in design. The design essentially sandwiches the dual AR prisms between the top and bottom case plates. A dense, but very thin foam lines the top and bottom of the case and works extremely well to keep those lens in their "factory set" positions. I consider the build quality to be excellent. I think I could drop this baby on my carpeted home theater room without any damage. (But I'm not going to test that theory!)

Besides being sturdy, the lens and associated casing is surprisingly heavy, so I wanted to be sure and create a mounting system that could handle the weight and still be flexible.

The prisms themselves are magic to me. IE, I understand the theory of prisms and an anamorphic horizontal stretch lens quite well, but I can't really speak to the quality of the lenses themselves. I'll have to let the resulting picture quality speak for itself in that regards.

Once my RS1 arrived and was placed in it's RPA 184 mount, I was ready to mount the lens. Of course, I held it up in place to see what would happen and sure enough, it looked like it was going to work just fine.

To aid in mounting, the HTB lens comes with an adjustable mount that is connected to the lens via two thumb screws. Into each side of the mount is built a special threaded insert that is designed to accept the thumb screws. These mounts allow the lens to point up and down, handling the needed adjustment to the Y axis. To handle any panning and tilting, you'll have to come up with your own method.

While driving to Home Depot, it dawned on me that I could implement an extremely low tech and flexible mount system out of threaded pipe. I was going to build a sliding unit, but after I had this mini brainstorm, I just had to try it. It cost less than ten dollars and took about ten minutes to put together. The most difficult part was finding the ceiling joists to which I firmly screwed a mounting plate to.

The photos below show my ten dollar mounting system. Everything is firmly hand tightened, except the top most thread which is tightened enough to allow the unit to rotate, but not so little as to let the mount swing out of control. This allows the entire system to be tweaked tremendously, tightened, and then rotated out of the way and toward the back of the projector. Randy thought it was cool when I sent photos to him. There's zero slop as well, meaning that once I 'dial' the mount in, it doesn't move on me. (Yeah, I need to paint that peice of plywood black!)

Next I'll cover adjustments and image qualities. Yes, I know, you wish I had started with that! Patience, grasshopper!

After mounting my HTB lens in a way that enabled me to tweak to my heart's content, I started to throw images up on the wall.

Having never used such a lens, I was surprised to find that some of the adjustments were counter intuitive. IE, if you want the image thrown a bit to the left, you have to point the lens a bit to the right. Clearly there are "sweet spots" in regards to the optics involved, and getting your lens to work well with your projector and screen will require anywhere from a few minutes to a half-hour to get right. My advice to anyone purchasing such a system is to ensure that their mounting system is easily adjusted.

I took Randy's advice and put my RS1's lens as close to the HTB lens as possible. I haven't found any stray reflections coming from the front or back of the lens. Nothing is projected up on the ceiling, etc. HTB supplies a little black foam cut-out to help prevent unwanted "back into the project's lens" reflections, but I haven't found the need to use it. Presumably this is because of how close I can match up my RS1's lens to the HTB lens.

For test purposes, I used a combination of image sources. Because the RS1 won't natively vertically stretch hi-def signals, I was really limited to stretching standard def DVDs. I picked Star Wars and The Fellowship Of the Ring as test DVDs because, well, duh, who wouldn't!?! In addition, I downloaded a 720p version of an anamorphic test screen, the results of which are shown below.

Twisting, panning and tilting the lens all change the optical nature of the projected image. Tilting the lens will cause pincushing; anywhere from barely noticiable to extreme. Finding a sweet spot is quite easy and once you've done this, the two thumb screws can be tightened. Twisting the lens shouldn't be necessary unless you mount isn't straight. Panning the lens is required to ensure that when you put the lens in it's final position, the resulting cinemascope image is centered on the same location the 16:9 widescreen image is centered. I originally missed this and was a bit annoyed that I had to manually use horizontal lens shift to correct for it. Learn from me and don't make this mistake. Once you have the HTB lens in it's proper position, it will expand the projected image centered exactly as it should.

In the following photos, you'll see the projected anamorphic test image projected with and without the HTB lens in place. I have a black velvet frame, and you may notice a bit of cropping occuring... don't sweat that. Of course, the image also looks better than these photographs can show.

These two images are to tide you over. In my next post I'll write up on the strengths and weaknesses of the lens (in my opinion), any optical abberations I'm seeing, and I'll touch on why in my unique case, I may not end up using it! (How's that for a teaser?)

Looking forward to the next update. I'd like to see a high resolution shot of a scene with high contrast (some sort of black to white transition) near the edges of the screen so we can see what the color fringing looks like.

Thanks for the info!

Focus looks WAY out on the left. Unless it's your camera?

Let's get to the meat! I'm going to break this down into "effect" and "affect".
First, let me speak a bit about the "affect".

I sat my wife down and said, "Ok, are you ready for this?". She was patient with me.

First I hit the magic stretch button on the RS1 and the 16:9 image filled the screen. I considered discussing the merits of lighting up all the pixels on my panel, but decided there was a better time for that.

Then, I walked over to the projector and rotated my lens into place. My wife actually said, "Wow!". I later thanked her for saying "Wow". The affect was quite dramatic as we watched the opening vision of Frodo's home town fill up a 111 inch wide screen. It was glorious and we sat there enjoying the view for several minutes. Of course, I was looking at the edges of the screen; scanning for signs of reflections and other curses of the optical gods. I couldn't detect any problems... but I was watching a movie, not critically inspecting a test image. My wife then said to me, "When are you going to fill up the entire wall?" I think she was serious.

So, the affect of the lens is exactly what you would hope: It wonderfullly stretches the image as it should and gives you a theater experience. Allow me to say it in as clear terms as possible: At the price I paid, this is the best home theater deal I've gotten in a long, long time. When compared to the prices of the "big boy's" lenses, this clearly falls into the "great bang for the buck" category.

Now, let's talk about the "effect". As fun as the lens is, it's not perfect. As mentioned earlier, if not carefully adjusted, you will get some pincushing that can be from minor to severe. To me, the pincushing is a total non-issue and well under control. I'm projecting from 14 feet back onto a (final size) 111 inch wide 1:2.36 screen. I think in my case, it's minimizing pincushing.

Timmy (above) mentions "color fringing". This is a term I'm not familiar with, but I'm guessing that I'm seeing it. The greatest optical downside is that as the image moves away from the center of the screen, the lens suffers from a linear increase in horizontal blue shift. IE, the higher frequencies of light are being expanded more than the lower frequencies. These mini rainbows are clearly visible when you walk up to a static test image (or take a high resolution photo of a still image), however, I never noticed it until I did this.

In the pictures below, you will see a worse case situation. Here I have the white lines of the anamorphic test image being drawn next to their black background. I purposely took these photos on the far left side of the image. (The right side of the image has a mirror effect.) You can clearly see the effect in these shots.

Let me reiterate my last paragraphs: I'm purposely highlighting the very worse effect that I could produce with a "close to properly" set up lens. In use with a movie, I would not have noticed this issue at all. I feel so strongly about this, that it pains me to even mention what I'm seeing... particularly without first consulting 'The Brothers' themselves. Yet, it's there and I feel needs to be mentioned.

As I'm typing this, I'm seeing a comment saying that the focus looks way out on the left. I believe that you're seeing the effects that the shots below will highlight. With tweaking, what you're seeing CAN be minimized. IE, at one point, I had the left side looking better, but at the cost of more problems on the right side. I have no doubt that I can make the image look better with a bit more tweaking... so with that said, I'll post this and finish up in a little while with some large Star Wars shots and my final take on why it might not be the right solution for me. (What, more teasers?)

Yes VTPete, what you described is the color fringing (or chromatic aberrations) that are caused by the two prism setup.

It's going to be there no matter what and with tweaking the best you can do is average it out to the left and right sides so it's not too drastic at any one point. Not a deal breaker but something to be aware of.

Could you try to get a shot from a movie where this is present? It's tuff to picture how much it would effect a movie image just from the test patters.

Thanks for all the work!

If the chromatic aberation is what's causing that L/R out of focus condition in your shot, then it is extreme. It looks out of focus as well. You might try changing the PJ's focus and see if you can "improve" the L/R focus. The chromatic aberation won't go away if it's there, but the individual colors will come into focus (better). That would speak to whether or not the focus at the sides in "right". The PJ's optics and photos can add to the issue.

The pixel size limitations on posted forum images would require me to resize my photos to a point where I don't feel they are properly showing what the image quality is like.

As such, I'm going to refrain from posting movie images.

All right, all right, I'll post ONE, but guys, please don't complain about the image quality of this snapshot as a) it's not representative of the true picture and b) it was taken before I had finally tweaked the lens.

So, consider this a shot to put you into the proper mindset of what it's like to use CIH. :)

-Pete

P.S. If you look carefully, you'll see the black foam core edges that I used to blacken the ceiling. Darkening my room from at least the projector forward was the best thing I could have ever done.

Throw some high res shots up on a free image hoster like ImageShack:
http://imageshack.us/

And just give us the link.

Cheers!

Summary:

As DarthBuck has pointed out previously, the HTB lens buying experience was personal, professional and informative. I hope that as HTB grows Randy can continue the kind of support that he showed me with all of his customers.

What do you get with this lens? In my opinion, you hit the sweet spot between price and performance. Are more expensive lens going to perform better? I'm not even going to answer that because the goal of the HTB lens is to get CIH into the hands of the masses, and that it does wonderfully.

Pros:
a) The lens is solidly and professionally built.
b) It uses two high quality lenses with anti-reflective coatings that really work.
c) Set-up is a breeze.
d) The price was right.
e) The optics do the job they're supposed to!
f) My wife said, "Wow!" (Put a price tag on that, guys!!!)

Cons:
a) Getting the lens into the perfect position takes patience and a bit of trial and error.
b) There's definitely some CA occurring. Seems like this is a known issue with two prism systems.

Now, with all of that said above, you may be wondering why I've been hinting at why this lens might not be right for me. It's because while I was testing this lens, I kept manually zooming out my RS1 to fill the screen for comparison shots.

When I would do this, I was amazed at the quality of the resulting image. My screen is black above and below for several feet, meaning those pesky black bars are not visible. (And we all know about the RS1's blacks.) Also, the brightness was, for all intents and purposes, equal with the CIH / Lens method. I've scratched my head over this for several days and the only explanation that I can offer is that the RS1's light efficiency is much greater at wide zoom settings. Because my projector is a reasonably long distance (14 feet) from the screen, I'm guessing that I'm not able to make full use of the full lumen output of the projector. When I zoom out to fill my 1:2.36 screen, I lose light from it being spread out, but I gain some from the efficency of using the wide zoom mode.

The result is that I'm not seeing (and neither is the camera) a benefit to using the HTB lens with this setup.

Additionally, the RS1 lacks a vertical stretch for hidef signals, and despite earlier rumors, JVC probably won't add one. And, I'm not about to go spend a couple of grand for a scaler that handles HDMI, 1080p and 24 frames per second... not when I can zoom out and still be blown away by the image quality.

So, I'm in no hurry to make any final decisions. I've spent 15 hours playing with my RS1 and still have not sat through a full-length blu ray movie. I think it's about time I do so!

In summary, I'm going to congratulate the HTB team for building a great product. I know that there are other options available, but I could only buy one and I'm happy that I did. Randy is a great guy to work with, and if you're considering purchasing a lens, give him a ring and discuss it with him. Although we didn't discuss return policies, my guess is that if you buy the lens and you're not happy with it, you'd be able to return it. So, what do you have to lose?

-Pete

P.S. If there is sufficient interest in this thread, I could be persuaded to take and post more pictures. I hope this has been helpful.

VTPete, there's interest in some more shots. Especially if you could get them uploaded at a high resolution to a sight like ImageShack.

A couple comparison shots between the lens in place and using the zoom method would be great!

Cheers.

VTPete,

Some comparison shots like mentioned with and without lens would be great. I am about to pull the trigger on a VW-60 and if a person could get the same satisfaction from just zooming as opposed to getting a lens, that is great.

Jason.

I would like to see the chromatic aberation at the extent of a 16x9 screen.

Would CA be improved if the screen were curved? Don't see why it would be

Am I the only one here that thinks most of the posters in this thread are coming from the same computer?

The next time I get a chance, I'll take and post more photos.
-Pete
(The only guy sitting at THIS computer!)

Am I the only one here that thinks most of the posters in this thread are coming from the same computer?

Is it really that hard for you to believe that people would be interested in a lower end product? If you're really concerned about it contact the moderators to check the IPs of the posters.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if DarthBuck was viral marketing. VTPete has posted some pics that show the issues of this type of lens.

Many of us wouldn't think of shelling out $3k for a better lens when we can get a lens that is pretty good for a lot less. I hope that the color breakup along the sides of the image will not be that detrimental or obvious. I know that my old mits RP had worse alignment than VTPete displayed.

I wonder if this tradeoff is similar to the mp3 trade. You take the best quality that you can get for the money that your willing to spend.

I received my lens yesterday. It is a lot heavier than I thought that it would be. But, it is certainly sturdy and will look quite professional. If I didn't have this head cold, I would have painted the screen this week. As it is, I will not be able to make any tests until next week.

BTW - There is only one person in this house that can use a computer!

Penguin, are you drunk?:)

I've been planning my theater for quite some time, and now that I am about to crank it out (taking a month of to work with my contractor) I'm going through final planning. My one budget concern is buying a prismasonic,htb, or any lens if I don't need it. Thus my "excitement" that the OP feels he does not really need one.

Now I've followed some of your other posts, and you seem like a reasonable "frugal" type of customer, I would think you would be interested in this lens as well. However, I would be interested in how you like your lens (perhaps a pm so I don't derail the thread any further)

Anyway, I hope VTPete will be able to do some comparison shots with and without lens. I'm hoping there is no noticable difference (probably wishful thinking, according to the other "lens or zoom" thread) but a guy can dream.:o

Jason

Guys, I haven't left you. Just very busy. I took a few more pictures last night, but need to get them downloaded, processed, etc. (We have a new baby that takes up most of my free time!)
-VTPete

I have to echo VTPete's comments...I have not ditched this thread, but had some things come up (new puppy related). By the way, VTPete, I enjoyed reading your review, and have had a very similar experience.

Timmy, I appreciate your concern, but assure you I, like many here, am simply a home theater enthusiast on a budget. I spend a ton of time researching everything I put in my theater, in the attempt to get the most bang for my (minimal) buck. In the case of the HTB lens and Elite Cinemascope screen, I just felt I had come across modestly-priced options that many were not aware of. As I mention in my initial post, I did not have much luck finding actual user-posted info on these products, so that's what these two threads are about. Actual users, giving actual input, to anyone interested.

Penguin, I'm the only one on this IP/computer as well...what leads you to suggest all of these posts are coming from the same computer? Just curious, as I've never seen this suggested before. I think Timmy has a good point...if you are concerned, the forum admins should be able to check on this for you.

I just took more time than I had available to type this up, but I am hoping to get some pics of my setup taken and posted this weekend.

Buck

Hi All,

I've come to the conclusion that my camera equipment isn't really up to the task of taking great photos. I don't have the low light sensitivity I need, so all photos just plain don't show off the real image.

Also, I spent far too long trying to find a scene that could be used to show the downsides of a two prism system, but darned, it's tough! Honestly, it all looks good. However, I now realize how lousy DVDs can look when you're trying to find clean images.

Still, I tried. I found a place that would host some photos. If you follow this link, you'll find the following hirez shots:

1) Anamorphic test pattern shown at normal 16x9 size, roughly 84 inches wide.
2) The same image using the HTB lens to stretch to about 111 inches.
3) A close up of the right side.
4) A close up of the left side.
5) A shot from Spiderman 2 with the lens (Paper towel in middle of shot with said
text.) (EDIT: By the way, I should have mentioned the bright line at the bottom of the screen comes from my lousy DVD's stretch feature... pretty much makes it a worthless feature.)
6) Same frame, but using plain old "zoom out" method.

I stick by my statements that in practical use, you don't see the chromatic aberrations or pin cushioning. I'm also more convinced than ever that my RS1 gets a significant lumens boost when you zoom out! (We've all read that in the reviews... I believe this is a practical demonstration of that fact.)

http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/b/2006740596576260454

VTPete,

Thanks for the Spiderman shots. Very appreciated.

JB.

Hi All,

I've come to the conclusion that my camera equipment isn't really up to the task of taking great photos. I don't have the low light sensitivity I need, so all photos just plain don't show off the real image.

Those photos look pretty good to me! Thanks.

Could someone with a panamorph take some similar shots for comparison.

For the record: HTB-AR anamorphic lens rocks, especially for $595. I couldn't be much happier. Once I setup my 143" x 61" screen and project the first movie, I was hooked.

Go HTB !!!

Many of us wouldn't think of shelling out $3k for a better lens when we can get a lens that is pretty good for a lot less.]
BTW - There is only one person in this house that can use a computer!

I totally agree.

Many of us wouldn't think of shelling out $3k for a better lens when we can get a lens that is pretty good for a lot less. I understand, and I really don't mean to sound like a snob, but... My translation of above is, Many of us wouldn't think of shelling out $3k for a lens, one that has ground glass, or prisims engineered and manufactured as a lens, when we can get a DIY "lens" made from parts that were designed for trophys, for a lot less.There's a reason a real lenses cost much more. But if you can't afford them, the DIY based solutions may be a fine place to start, depending on your details.

Many of us wouldn't think of shelling out $3k for a better lens when we can get a lens that is pretty good for a lot less.

I understand, and I really don't mean to sound like a snob, but... My translation of above is,
Many of us wouldn't think of shelling out $3k for a lens, one that has ground glass, or prisims engineered and manufactured as a lens, when we can get a DIY "lens" made from parts that were designed for trophys, for a lot less.

There's a reason a real lenses cost much more. But if you can't afford them, the DIY based solutions may be a fine place to start, depending on your details.

I can certainly afford to spend $3,000 on a lens. I can afford to spend $8,000 on a projector. But I might only spend $2,500 on my next projector upgrade after reviewing all the current offerings, and end user's results with them. I may say to myself "Projector x is better, but only a little so. I would rather use the money elsewhere." The same goes for the lens, the more expensive lens's may perform better, but I may choose to spend less. If I only used the "can I afford it" rule to do a hobby, it becomes an exercise in looking up prices and picking the most expensive. Contrasting and comparing products is a major part of this hobby. So I want to hear all I can about products at various price points.

Does this lens cause any image shift when moving it in and out of the light path for switching between 2.35:1 and 16:9?

Mike,
Once you have the lens set up, you can just slide it in front of your projector without having to tweak zoom, focus or horizontal/vertical shift. Sort of 'set it and forget it'.
-Pete
P.S. I'm going to be putting mine up for sale soon as I don't need two lenses!

Does this lens cause any image shift when moving it in and out of the light path for switching between 2.35:1 and 16:9?

Another option (if you have a Scaler) is to leave the lens in position all the time, and then when you want to watch a 16:9 content, switch the scaler to 4:3. Your 16:9 image will be displayed perfectly just as if you've moved the lens away. Then switch the scaler back to Letterbox to watch 2.35:1 movies.

You end up with CIH effortlessly.

Guys, I don't know if this post is against forum rules (where are they?), but I finally put my HTB lens up for sale in the market place.
-Pete

Just thought I'd drop in to mention that I recently finished setting up my theater with an HTB lens, and other than some difficulty mounting it in proper position in front of my Infocus 7210, I'm extremely pleased. Incredible value for the $$. Don't know why these don't get more press around here.

Photos of my setup here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1000388

I too have the Infocus 7210 and the HTB lens. I'm very happy with the lens and like every one is saying, for $595 you can't go wrong. I have always been buying the best you can get for the money and was a little nervous about the lens being so cheap. I paid $6K for my infocus 7210 three years ago and have been stuck with 16X9 and didn't want to put so much money into my new 2.35:1 set up. I too don't know why HTB don't get more press.

And I also want to say Thanks to Randy the lens came on time as promise.

I too have the Infocus 7210 and the HTB lens. I'm very happy with the lens and like every one is saying, for $595 you can't go wrong. I have always been buying the best you can get for the money and was a little nervous about the lens being so cheap. I paid $6K for my infocus 7210 three years ago and have been stuck with 16X9 and didn't want to put so much money into my new 2.35:1 set up. I too don't know why HTB don't get more press.

And I also want to say Thanks to Randy the lens came on time as promise.

Thanks! I'm glad you're happy with the lens. I'm sure everyone here would love to see your setup and how well an "entry level" lens can perform.

Popechild - very nice job!! All the effort was certainly worth it. I really like your custom masking system!

Focus looks WAY out on the left. Unless it's your camera?

I noticed that also. Mine is very much focused throughout and doesn't show the blue tent (on the left) anywhere. My guess it is the camera.

I might also throw in I have my HTB lens table mounted upside down and use the attachment (you normally use to attach the lens to the ceiling) as a stand. I need a slide but it works ok. Anyone know where a inexpensive slide might be found??

Some of you may be interested in that my lens has been dropped a couple of times from about 4 feet to the floor. I just knew the prisms would be out of alighnment but no, they were still perfect and the metal casing was not damaged at all. Very well built.

For the record: HTB-AR anamorphic lens rocks, especially for $595. I couldn't be much happier. Once I setup my 143" x 61" screen and project the first movie, I was hooked.

Go HTB !!!

Absolutely! I happen to have a 14' wide wall with a 12' ceiling. My HTB-AR anamorphic lens throws a 168" (14') wide wall to wall image that is hypnotic. King Kong is life size and you have to get out of the way of the dinosaurs. I have never had a different anamorphic lens but I can't imagine getting any more bang for the buck than what I get from the HTB Len’s image.

The HTB lens enclosure uses what I thought were brads to hold it together and the prisms in place. On closer inspection it looks like a very small hex wrench is needed to tighten, loosen, or take the lens apart.

Does anyone know what size hex is needed?
I don't want to haul the whole lens to Home Depot.

Also, does anyone know of a template that can be used to reset the prisms if they move?

Thanks-

I need a slide but it works ok. Anyone know where a inexpensive slide might be found??I have mine ceiling mounted using another projector mount and a drawer slide form Lowes. The slide is too long, but the price is right.

I have mine ceiling mounted using another projector mount and a drawer slide form Lowes. The slide is too long, but the price is right.

I have a couple of drawer slides from Home Depot, but can't determine the best way of mounting them to the lens. How did you put yours together?
I checked out the DIY lens threads but didn't find anything on how to assemble a lens slide other than use a couple of drawer slides, which I already had. My problem is I want it to look nice.
Thanks-

The HTB lens enclosure uses what I thought were brads to hold it together and the prisms in place. On closer inspection it looks like a very small hex wrench is needed to tighten, loosen, or take the lens apart.

Does anyone know what size hex is needed?
I don't want to haul the whole lens to Home Depot.

Also, does anyone know of a template that can be used to reset the prisms if they move?

Thanks-

The hex is 2mm. The lens elements should not have moved, even if subjected to multiple drops. If for some reason the lens elements have moved, you can open the case and you will be able to see indentations in the foam rubber mat where the lens elements sit. It would probably be evident if the lens elements had moved as you would see a larger imprint in the foam. If you need to adjust them you can simply project a 16:9 AR test pattern and adjust the lens elements so that the amount of stretch is equal on both sides of the screen, at the same time filling your scope screen. See attachment for an example test pattern.

On a side note - if you see that the lens elements have become dusty, here are a couple cleaning tips:
1) Blow dust out with air in a can before you try anything else. In most cases this is all you need. In most cases, dust does not affect the performance of the lens so don't worry if its not perfect - you don't live in a clean room and the dust will be back.

2) If there are fingerprint smudges you should attempt to clean them with a soft lint-free cloth/kimwipe and isopropyl alcohol in a swirling motion. This comes direct from our coater who knows what he's talking about. Be liberal with the alcohol and keep rubbing in a circular motion until you see it evaporate completely. This is much easier to get a streak free finish than using any other cleaner.

I too don't know why HTB don't get more press.


I think people are pretty convinced that these lense can't be any good because they are so cheap.

Yes - they do have some issues, when compared using very precise instrumentation against the more expensive kind. However, you can get wrapped up in the "specs" too much and miss the forest for the trees (or the entire image for the pixels). When watching a movie, many of these slight aberrations in the image just simply aren't seen when watching a movie.

It's too bad I didn't buy the entire stock of trophies when I discovered them a few years ago. I had no idea these trophy prisms would take off like they have. I could have made a mint!

It's too bad I didn't buy the entire stock of trophies when I discovered them a few years ago. I had no idea these trophy prisms would take off like they have. I could have made a mint!

And for the record, Steve Scherrer was the first to discover the optic glass prisms that all DIY lenses now use. I was the first to capture a projected image... (http://cavx.blogspot.com/2006_09_01_archive.html)

Mark

And for the record, Steve Scherrer was the first to discover the optic glass prisms that all DIY lenses now use. I was the first to capture a projected image... (http://cavx.blogspot.com/2006_09_01_archive.html)

Mark

Hey, that reminds me - where are my royalty checks?

Hey, that reminds me - where are my royalty checks?
Ha Ha, did I open a can of worms or what?

Mark

This thread was great to find. Thank you for all the time spent on it.

I am ready to buy a lens for my HD80. The HTB-AR looks like a great value and I am ready to move on it but I can't help but think that the Panamorph will do a substantially better job from edge to edge focus.

Has anyone actually used the Optoma/Panamorph rig for my projector? Is it worth the extra $$$ with regards to keeping the image pristine? Or is it best to stay with the HTB?

Is it worth the extra $$$ with regards to keeping the image pristine? Or is it best to stay with the HTB?

If your budget allows for the Panamorph UH380, then buy it. It really is a good product...

Mark

I just finished setting up a 2.35 screen,for about 4 months I've been using the zoom metod,because I needed a scaler as my projector does not have the vertical stretch.After installing the dvdo edge,and then the htb lens,WOW,awesome.I gotta tell ya,this lens is great.I really never thought I would be able to put together a cinemascope set-up mainly because of price,but when talk of the dvdo edge started I began to think it could happen.The lens was my biggest problem,lot of money,on top of all the other cost.I checked out all the top brands,just couldn't afford it,I researched diy prisms.But then I found the htbs lens,it has really brought everything together,for the price of the lens the performance is fantastic,I couldn't be happier,what a great product!!If you've seen this lens and thought it can't be that great for that price,well your wrong,I thought that,but it really came down to what I could afford.Glad I just went ahead and did it,because it was worth every penny. Thanks htbs, Jim

Thanks for the kind words Jrek!!

I purchased my htb lens a few months back and I'm overall very happy with my setup. I initially had some trouble with focus issues on the left hand side of my screen, but with some tweaking I have it pretty much set up as good as it can be. That said, there is a very minor loss of focus at the very far edges of the screen. Then again, this is on a 143" screen where I'm sitting about 12 feet back and my wife says she doesn't notice it. It is such a large image that the vast majority of the time my eyes are focused on the center of the screen anyway. It's not a big enough issue that I would be willing to go out and spend 3-5k to get a lens that "may" be better.

The wow factor of having a cinemascope theater makes this lens worth every penny. People invite themselves over all the time to watch movies, and it's great.

Blaster: is your screen curved? If not, do you think the "focus" problem (or likely pincushion effect) would be significantly ameliorated if it were? Is you 143" a diagonal measure?

larrychief

No, my screen is not curved. It may help a little, but honestly, I think what I've done is try to get the most out of what I've got in terms of money, space and light output. To that end, I believe I've succeeded. I have a 143" diagonal 2.4:1 DIY black widow screen. My projector is 18' back from the screen. When it's in 16:9 at ~110", the throw ratio is 1.9. However, with the lens in place at 143" it's around 1.5. Couple this with the extremely large lens from my W5000 and I don't have a whole lot of wiggle room with my HTB lens. Had I moved the projector back farther I wouldn't be at the extreme ends of the prisms and would probably be experiencing less loss of focus (which, again, is minimal and not enough for the average joe blow viewer to notice), but I would be sacrificing light output.

The only time I ever notice a difference between the edges and the center is for text anyway. So once the movie starts, it's moot. I'm super happy considering what I've paid for my setup. I hope that helps.

Blaster, I am a little confused with your set-up.

A 2.4 143" diagonal screen would be 55x132. At 1.78, 55" height gives you 55x98 for 112" diagonal.

18' (216 inches) / 98 = 2.206 for the throw ratio. 1.9 throw ratio would be 15.5 back.

2.206 is an above-average throw ratio. I was planning on 2.0

Just curious where the discrepancy lies since my screen will be very similar (55x129).

Sorry about the confusion. I was doing quick math and noted that the screen was ~110 (112 is more accurate). Also, I was calculating the throw ratio based on being 18 feet back and using the diagonal, so 216/112=1.92. Oops my bad for using the diagonal and not the width. :eek:

If I have a coffee-table setup for my projector, what's a good way to approach mounting the lens?

Most people with table top HTB-AR lens setups opt to secure the bracket/lens to a mounting board or shelf which the projector sits on as well. This way the whole system is mounted on the same surface and you wont have problems with the lens getting out of alignment. The projector should also be secured to the mounting surface. The lens is heavy and needs to be secured some way.

I got my lens in today and I did a bit of playing with it. With the lens in place, I was getting quite a trapezoidal picture. I managed to 'overscan' it a bit onto the black border around my screen, but it was still a little noticeable.

Could that just be my projector not throwing a perfectly square image?

With anamorphic lenses you often have to give the lens a little bit of tilt to square up the picture. If you were getting a squared up picture before the lens it shouldn't be your projector.

can someone tell me how much % is the htb lens of an expensive like isco iii?
speaking of image quality you get
and what are the- that other more expensive lens donot have

thank you
john

can someone tell me how much % is the htb lens of an expensive like isco iii?
speaking of image quality you get
and what are the- that other more expensive lens donot have

thank you
john

ISCOIII is about 10x the price and gives you fully adjustable astigmatism correction and is fully corrected for CA...

Mark

then in comparisment with a prismasonic?

then in comparisment with a prismasonic?
The HD5000 and the FE1500 both have CA and Focal correction...

I wish to thank all of you for talking of this lens: mine one arrived and is now mounted in front of my W5000 and... WOW!

I'm really glad i bought it and I love the result.

Thanks HTB: I'm already talking of your lens on our country forums.

Ciao

Carlo

Thanks for the compliments Carlo! Glad to hear you are enjoying the lens. Keep spreading the word... :-)

I wish to thank all of you for talking of this lens: mine one arrived and is now mounted in front of my W5000 and... WOW!

I'm really glad i bought it and I love the result.

Thanks HTB: I'm already talking of your lens on our country forums.

Ciao

Carlo

i've had my htb lens installed late last year and this thing is awesome! it's hard to go wrong with this lens. i'm no videophile but this lens gives me great picture with my pana ax200 projecting to 113" 2.37:1 screen. i really can't see any loss of light or distortion, it's great!!

http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr122/nvektus/IMG_1050.jpg

Timmmay,

Is that a DIY lens slide, any more pics or info ?

Great looking setup BTW !

John

yes... got the parts from a junkyard, it was a 6 ft steel used for a shelving system i think. then i had a machine shop weld the side brackets and cut the slot on the bottom part for the rollers so i could slide the lens from left to right. the rollers are for pocket doors... i just grabbed the smallest one they have at the hardware store.

http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/primeline-roller-assembly-for-pocket-doors-from-1-to-p-38198.html?ref=42

here's another angle.

http://i476.photobucket.com/albums/rr122/nvektus/IMG_1049.jpg

Thanks for the info, way to DIY !

I am really impressed with the system. The picture is awesome. We had someone come in a cut a hole in the wall to put the projector behind the wall with the lens to get the throw distance we needed. It looks great. Looks like a real theater. If you are thinking about the HTB/DVDO Edge combination, go for it. I am driving the setup with an Epson 1080 UB.

I am really impressed with the system. The picture is awesome. We had someone come in a cut a hole in the wall to put the projector behind the wall with the lens to get the throw distance we needed. It looks great. Looks like a real theater. If you are thinking about the HTB/DVDO Edge combination, go for it. I am driving the setup with an Epson 1080 UB.

Man I can't wait!

I have the Edge, now I just need to save up enough for the HTB lens.

It's gonna be OH SO SWEET.

I am looking at going CIH and am very interested in the HTB lens, is there anyone that has one in the Chicagoland area that would be willing to show it off to me???

Thanks
Garen

Just to help anyone on the fence trying to make a decision, the lens and slide are top grade quality. I have both and have gotten fantastic service from Randy and the HTBs. I just wish they had more products. I haven't found better quality, service, or prices anywhere.

I have a quick question to one of the HTB owners. I am going to do a quick rebuild of my screen wall to set up a 235 screen instead of the current 16x9.

The screen however will be fairly small 37.5 x 88" / the room is small as well. The projector currently sits 11 feet back. Sony VPL-VW40. My question is with the HTB lens and such a small image will there be any huge issues with the outside focus or even set-up.

Also does there seem to be a better project for the HTB lens, I am in the industry so selling the sony is not an issue. This is all temporary as we are building a new house about a year from now with a large theater.

Thanks,

Tyler

Sony VPL-VW40
Does this projector scale for CIH?

No, it doesn't.

No, it doesn't.
That's what I thought. Hope speakerlab reads this so he knows he up for either a new projector or to add a scaler.

I do beleive so, I read some guys are using the vw60 and the remote and menus are near identical.

Tyler

I do beleive so, I read some guys are using the vw60 and the remote and menus are near identical.

Tyler

A friend of me purchased the VW40 and played around with the different aspect ratios. He doesn't use an anamorphic lens, but i asked him to check out the v-stretch abilities of this projector.
It's right that the menus are near identical, but not complete. Indeed, the VW40 hardware (or maybe firmware) doesn't support vertical scaling for full panel height.
To use this unit with an anamorphic lens, you need to add an external scaler into your setup, as Mark already mentioned.

Thank you for confirming that and saving a huge headache. So that being solved does not really bother me as again this is sorta a temp solution.

I guess I just need to confirm a basic 1080 projector that will work with my short throw and screen size.

I will search more on this today.

Thanks,

Tyler

No problem ;)

I know the following 1080p projectors with v-stretch option:

Benq W5000, W20000
Epson TW5000
JVC RS2
Mitsubishi HC5500
Optoma HD80
Panasonic PT-AE2000
Sony VPL-VW60


This list is certainly not complete :)
In your case, i would think about purchasing the DVDO Edge scaler, which really is a great offer for the actual price. The edge allows you to scale the image for full panel height and to squeeze it for 1.78:1 content with an anamorphic lens fixed in front of the projector. Beside that, it works as a HDMI switch :)

Have a nice day :)

Add the BenQ W5000 to the list. It also scales so that 16:9 material can be viewed without moving the lens out of the light path.

I do beleive so, I read some guys are using the vw60 and the remote and menus are near identical.

Tyler

Then I suggest that you try a HD source with both the 4 x 3 mode and the Anamorphic Zoom mode first. They are the two scaling modes for the WV60, so make sure that your 40 has these and they work.

Add the BenQ W5000 to the list. It also scales so that 16:9 material can be viewed without moving the lens out of the light path.

Oh yes of course, i will do so!
Does it really provide this special "squeeze mode" for 16:9 material with a fixed lens in place?

Oh yes of course, i will do so!
Does it really provide this special "squeeze mode" for 16:9 material with a fixed lens in place?
BenQ W5000/20000 do both mode 1 and 2 scaling. They even have a "Panamorph Compatible" logo on the top of the case.

Nice to know ;)
If i can realize a sufficient TR in my next home cinema, the W5000/6000 might be my next projector.

I'm using a W5000 with a HTB Lens.

PRJ lens distance from the wall I'm now using as a screen is 480 cm. equal to about 16 feet.

With this set up I can get an image of 12 feet base but I have evident CA at sides and visible barrel distorsion, but if I go down to about 10 1/2 feet base then image is quite perfect. Much less CA, quite invisible barrel distorsion and only one blue line at extreme sides of image. Focus is perfect from my seat at about 15 feet from screen (wall :() Only if I get very near (one foot) to the screen I can see a small focus difference on the right side of the image.

I suppose that, being the W5000 lens so recessed, at the wide end of the zoom the light beam is too large for the HTB, so large to interfere with prism sides. Otherwise I couldn't explain such a difference between the bad 12 feet image and the perfect more than 10 feet one.

FYI: HE lenses give pincushion, not barrel distortion.

Hey guys, I am looking at the specs of the W5000 now and can pick one up easily after selling my vw40 and have enough cash to buy the lens. This forum again has helped out greatly. I also order my screen material yesterday!!!

Thanks,

Tyler

Hey I just got a HTB lens and a Pioneer fpj1. I've had it set up for 2 days now and can't seem to get it to focus correctly with the lens in place. Without the lens I can focus it to a razor sharp image but with the lens in place I can either get it focused horizontally or vertically but not both. Also or the far right side of the screen blue seems to be off one pixel to the right. But on the far left side of the screen blue is off one pixel to the left. In the center of the screen blue dosent seem to be off at all and it slowly gets worse as it reaches the extreme ends of the screen.
Are the prisim's out of alignment? Or is there some other adjustment I'm missing? This is my first CIH setup and everything is just setup temporarily. Right now the projector is about 23' from the screen.

Without the lens I can focus it to a razor sharp image but with the lens in place I can either get it focused horizontally or vertically but not both. Also or the far right side of the screen blue seems to be off one pixel to the right. But on the far left side of the screen blue is off one pixel to the left. In the center of the screen blue dosent seem to be off at all and it slowly gets worse as it reaches the extreme ends of the screen.
Are the prisim's out of alignment?

For the thousandth time (at least from me)... No.

What you are describing is exactly how prisms work, and how they can only work, especially at short throws (< 80 feet) and wide beams, that is, your typical Home Theater setup.

Hybrid prisms systems like Panamorph and Prismasonic use color-corrected prisms (each prism is a actually pair, or doublet of two smaller cemented prisms made from different glasses). This reduces the color problems you have observed. They also have a corrector lens - either weak cylindrical or weak spherical, in front of or behind the prisms - which reduces the focus (astigmatism) problems, up to a point, at a certain sweet-spot. Panamorph supply different correctors for different throws.

You do not have a misalignment of your prisms. This is "classic" prism anamorphic performance. Optical engineers have known about it for centuries. HT fans are just learning about it. Some are in denial and claim extreme sharpness etc. from their simple prism systems like HTB. They're wrong. They should take off their rose colored glasses.

Amen brother. I've tried countless times to get my htb/w5000 image razor sharp and it just doesn't happen. The recessed lens leaves a very little sweet spot with the htb lens and I'm thinking I may have to sacrifice lumens and put this thing as far back as I can (greater than 2x distance) to get a better image. That said, if someone were to ask me to thow out a number I'd say I probably lose about 15-20% image sharpness with the lens in place(take with a grain of salt - it's just a guess) - it is noticeably sharper without the lens. It is also certainly more evident with text.

I'm keeping my lens until I can afford a higher end panamorph, but for now my htb lens does exactly what it set out to do - provide a good cinemascope experience in the home at a very budget price. People shouldn't expect perfection at this price point and those claiming that it is great, that's great for them.

For the thousandth time (at least from me)..

But you haven't reachd a 1000 post count yet Aussie Bob :p

Also a topic that seems to go completely unnoticed (yes pun intended) is the surface quality of the glass being used. The prisms are, well trophies, and have not being finished to a proper optical grade specs. To the eye, the surface of the glass looks clean and smooth (and so does any window), but under magnification the surface will be quite rough and this has to impact on image sharpness as well as the fact that the prisms are NOT corrected for CA being a major contributor to the problem.

But you haven't reachd a 1000 post count yet Aussie Bob

Ah yes, but you forgot senior-citizen obsessive-compulsives like moi tend to repeat ourselves. That brings the average number of Grumpy Old Man dummy-spits per post waaaay up.

NOTE: Apologies in advance to any obsessive-compulsives reading this (which would be just about all of you, in my assessment). No offence intended.

I'm thinking I may have to sacrifice lumens and put this thing as far back as I can (greater than 2x distance) to get a better image.

The zoom range on the BenQ W5000 is such that is min zoom (smallest image) you only get a TR of about 2.1:1 anyway.

Amen brother. I've tried countless times to get my htb/w5000 image razor sharp and it just doesn't happen. The recessed lens leaves a very little sweet spot with the htb lens and I'm thinking I may have to sacrifice lumens and put this thing as far back as I can (greater than 2x distance) to get a better image. That said, if someone were to ask me to thow out a number I'd say I probably lose about 15-20% image sharpness with the lens in place(take with a grain of salt - it's just a guess) - it is noticeably sharper without the lens. It is also certainly more evident with text.

I'm keeping my lens until I can afford a higher end panamorph, but for now my htb lens does exactly what it set out to do - provide a good cinemascope experience in the home at a very budget price. People shouldn't expect perfection at this price point and those claiming that it is great, that's great for them.
Even though my projector does not have recessed lens - my Panamorph UH480 likes max throw (2X) too. If I had no choice but to go w/ a short throw (due to room / projector) - I would not have gone CIH. I have no problem sacrificing lumens for a better quality picture. Other side benefits (w/ max throw) are contrast improvement and far less pincushion. Plus it's nice to have the projector behind the seating (like a real movie theater) w/ the side benefit being that the fan is farther away (quieter).

Plus it's nice to have the projector behind the seating (like a real movie theater) w/ the side benefit being that the fan is farther away (quieter).
Yes it is. The BenQ is virtually silent on "whisper mode" as well and there is plenty of brightness should you decide to open that Iris.

For the thousandth time (at least from me)... No.

:D Thanks. I was aware of the CA just had never seen it. The Astigmatism is a new one for me though. And being this was my first lens I didnt know what to expect.

For the thousandth time (at least from me)... No.

What you are describing is exactly how prisms work, and how they can only work, especially at short throws (< 80 feet) and wide beams, that is, your typical Home Theater setup.

Hybrid prisms systems like Panamorph and Prismasonic use color-corrected prisms (each prism is a actually pair, or doublet of two smaller cemented prisms made from different glasses). This reduces the color problems you have observed. They also have a corrector lens - either weak cylindrical or weak spherical, in front of or behind the prisms - which reduces the focus (astigmatism) problems, up to a point, at a certain sweet-spot. Panamorph supply different correctors for different throws.

You do not have a misalignment of your prisms. This is "classic" prism anamorphic performance. Optical engineers have known about it for centuries. HT fans are just learning about it. Some are in denial and claim extreme sharpness etc. from their simple prism systems like HTB. They're wrong. They should take off their rose colored glasses.
And you shouldn't be crapping all over HTB lenses in their own thread...

I understand that you are describing the nature of simple prism systems vs those that are vastly superior, but do you really need to come off so condescending? I get it...you're tired of explaining to people that you get what you pay for. The HTB folks bring to market a lens that many people will be very happy with--they just need to understand the limitations and decide if they are affected. While I appreciate your information and I'm sure others do too, feel free to cut the Holier-than-thou attitude. Noone cares.

Evidently I am obsessive-compulsive.. LOL

Tom

I can only speak for me and another AVS member who lives in a nearby community. We both ended up with the HTB lens. He had the DIY French lens and the Australian lens mentioned on this forum. We looked at all three in his home theater. I'm not as technically savvy as he or any of the lens makers but we both selected the HTB lens. It all depends on how much you want to spend, your particular setup, how much difference between lens you see, what you like and what bothers you from lens to lens, and how satisfied you are with your choice. I was offered the option of returning the (undamaged in original packaging) lens if I was not satisfied.
Best of Luck-

And you shouldn't be crapping all over HTB lenses in their own thread...

I didn't find his post as "crapping" on anything. He simply states facts about the limitations of single glass type prisms Vs Doublets [2 glass types cemented together] and mentions Correction Elements [cylindericals and sphericals].

And you shouldn't be crapping all over HTB lenses in their own thread...

I understand that you are describing the nature of simple prism systems vs those that are vastly superior, but do you really need to come off so condescending?

Firstly it's not "their own thread". This is a public forum, and as far as I know is owned and run by AV Science, NOT the Home Theater Brothers.

Secondly, it is not being condescending to point out basic facts of optical science. As I said above, the limitations of simple prism systems have been known for centuries, even since Newton started fooling around with them.

To say that prism systems - even the most perfectly ground and polished ones - much better than HTB could ever hope to be - cannot EVER perform to the levels that some here claim they do is simply stating plain facts. It is not condescending. It is the simple truth. If you understood anything about optics, you'd keep quiet and not make such a fool of yourself by getting all protective and emotional about it. I'm not attacking anything, or anyone. I'm just stating the undeniable truth of the matter.

The rest is hype and wishful thinking.

The question was asked, "Why does my picture get blurred towards the edges and why do the colors smear all over the screen?" (I paraphrase, but accurately so). The answer is simple: because simple prisms cannot ever do any better than that. This is nothing in particular against HTB products. Even Panavision tried prisms in the early days (their first product, the "Panavision Anamorphotic Adapter"). It worked OK at long throws, over 80 feet (80 feet was the shortest throw Panavision considered as even half-way effective) . But at the short throws typical of HT applications prisms must always fail, no matter how well made, advertised and passionately defended they may be.

One day you might come across a serious, professional system, and then you'll see what I mean: it's chalk and cheese between simple prisms and other, better designed systems. You can reserve the right to get all hurt that someone tells the truth about your purchasing decision, but don't expect any sympathy from colleagues who know and have seen, much, much better.

but don't expect any sympathy from colleagues who know and have seen, much, much better.

Like myself :p

I didn't find his post as "crapping" on anything. He simply states facts about the limitations of single glass type prisms Vs Doublets [2 glass types cemented together] and mentions Correction Elements [cylindericals and sphericals].Me either. If the [crap|shoe] fits... One thing I can comfortably say about AB is he will tell you like he sees it. And he's explained the good and bad of all lenses, so I see him with no particular agenda.

I gotta agree about Getgray's statement about Aussie Bob. I've read many of his posts and basically he lays it out like it is. He is very helpful to many on the forum and developed a pretty nifty calculator to determine the curve radius one might need for their screen when their projector is paired with a lens. I didn't think his post was dogging the HTB lens just stating the fact about prisms. I can see where it might be fustrating when the answer to a specific question like that can be found by doing a search.

This coming from someone using the Surplus Shed (French Prisms) and quite pleased with the setup and performance for the price. Can it be better? Absolutely, but it would cost me about five times more than what I paid and that is only for the next entry level lens which as far as I know is made of similar material as my lens.

If you understood anything about optics, you'd keep quiet and not make such a fool of yourself by getting all protective and emotional about it. I'm not attacking anything, or anyone. I'm just stating the undeniable truth of the matter.

I just think there are better ways to phrase things, that's all, and I won't apologize for posting what I did, only that I could have given you the benefit of the doubt by looking through your other posts for a common thread as others have suggested. You can call it simply stating facts if you like, but the tone I got from your post was pretty direct with all the rose colored glasses and tired to death of answering the same questions over and over talk. We are all new at some point and it's not like this hobby doesn't warrant a gazillion questions.

You can reserve the right to get all hurt that someone tells the truth about your purchasing decision, but don't expect any sympathy from colleagues who know and have seen, much, much better.

I haven't purchased a HTB lens nor do I own any type of lens. I do have a 2.35:1 setup and am zooming for now. This will have to do until I weigh the cost/quality benefits for myself.

Also, no need to respond to this as I'm not trying to sidetrack this thread anymore than I already have.

Tom

This coming from someone using the Surplus Shed (French Prisms) and quite pleased with the setup and performance for the price. Can it be better? Absolutely, but it would cost me about five times more than what I paid and that is only for the next entry level lens which as far as I know is made of similar material as my lens.

And I am betting with a surface finish that is not as good as what you have now.

Hi All

One Question how does the slider work I look at the Picture and it does not look like it will slide, Is it made for moving the lens away for W/S and sliding it back for C/S.

I have just bought the Lens right now.

I'm considering an HTB-AR and wonder whether if someone can advise me if it will work in my room. I currently use an Optoma HD80 to project onto a 16:9 screen which is 6 feet 6 inches wide (also has a 3 inch black border beyond this). The wall on which the screen is fixed is 9 feet 6 inches wide so I have an extra 3 feet to play with. The front of my HD80's lens is situated 12 feet from the screen with the back of the unit almost touching the rear wall. Will an HTB-AR lens work in this context? Will I get vignetting? Pin cushion effects etc?

Also, I understand that a CIH screen will give me an increase in overall screen area but does that mean that screendoor will be more visible? If the screen size is bigger does that mean I will have to pull the seats back a little to stay at THX's optimum seating distance?

Thanks in advance for your help!

The front of my HD80's lens is situated 12 feet from the screen with the back of the unit almost touching the rear wall. Will an HTB-AR lens work in this context? Will I get vignetting? Pin cushion effects etc?

Also, I understand that a CIH screen will give me an increase in overall screen area but does that mean that screendoor will be more visible? If the screen size is bigger does that mean I will have to pull the seats back a little to stay at THX's optimum seating distance?

Thanks in advance for your help!

It's very easy to check this out :)
Follow the instructions described on this site:
http://www.hometheaterbrothers.com/878.html

Make this "paper test" and you will see, if vignetting will be a problem in your setup.

The screendoor won't be more visible, since you stretch the image vertically first and after that you stretch it horizontally using the lens by the same factor (x 1.33). It's not like "zooming" the whole image for a bigger screen. So don't worry about this ;)

Thanks, sounds helpful :)

No problem ;)
This is the same way, how i tested my setup on "HTB-compatibility" and it works really, really good. No vignetting.

So I am thinking of picking up one of these (found a great deal on a "used" one).

My new Projector - Optoma HD8200 has both 2.35 stretch and 4.3 "reverse stretch"?? Should I worry about building a slide or is the quality good enough to leave the lens in place? Does the "reverse stretch" work well?

My 16:9 is about 81" wide (44" tall) and the PJ is about 13' back. I checked the "hold up the paper 8.5" back" method last night and the image fit fine in the box.

Thanks in advance!

It's very easy to check this out :)
Follow the instructions described on this site:
http://www.hometheaterbrothers.com/878.html

Make this "paper test" and you will see, if vignetting will be a problem in your setup.

The screendoor won't be more visible, since you stretch the image vertically first and after that you stretch it horizontally using the lens by the same factor (x 1.33). It's not like "zooming" the whole image for a bigger screen. So don't worry about this ;)

That's absolute nonsense! Of course the pixels are going to be more visible - you have the same number of pixels now occupying a much bigger screen area! There is no lens in the world that can correct that effect, which ocurrs whether you use an A-lens or just zoom. Your picture brightness and contrast are also going to take a significant hit for the same reason (bigger screen area). There's no way around it.

That's absolute nonsense! Of course the pixels are going to be more visible - you have the same number of pixels now occupying a much bigger screen area! There is no lens in the world that can correct that effect, which ocurrs whether you use an A-lens or just zoom. Your picture brightness and contrast are also going to take a significant hit for the same reason (bigger screen area). There's no way around it.

Is that strictly true? I understood that since you are stretching the image vertically you are using the area of the screen that would previously have been displaying the black bars. So you've actually added to the resolution of the image. Only then is that image stretched horizontally.

So I am thinking of picking up one of these (found a great deal on a "used" one).

My new Projector - Optoma HD8200 has both 2.35 stretch and 4.3 "reverse stretch"?? Should I worry about building a slide or is the quality good enough to leave the lens in place? Does the "reverse stretch" work well?

My 16:9 is about 81" wide (44" tall) and the PJ is about 13' back. I checked the "hold up the paper 8.5" back" method last night and the image fit fine in the box.

Thanks in advance!

Actually, the same question from me given that I have an Optoma HD80. I believe that I will be able to simply leave the HTB-AR in place and reverse stretch. How does that work? I understand how a vertical stretch adds resolution so that it can be stretched horizontally without much loss of image quality but how does the reverse work?

Another question... Does the HTB-AR have any effect on shifting the image up or down? I ask because I anticipate problems with placing my tower speakers which presently sit to the right and left of my 16:9 screen - obviously my new 2.35:1 screen is going to use the space where the top of my speakers presently obscures. So I am hoping that the HTB-AR may slightly raise the image.

Is that strictly true? I understood that since you are stretching the image vertically you are using the area of the screen that would previously have been displaying the black bars. So you've actually added to the resolution of the image. Only then is that image stretched horizontally.

Wrong! Vertical stretch cannot add picture information that is not on the DVD.
What it does do is spread that fixed quantity of letterboxed information over the full panel height of the projector. You still have exactly the same amount of picture information being presented, but it is now spread out over a larger number of projector pixels.
Resolution is NOT increased since the input information (from the DVD) IS STILL THE SAME, but video pixelation is reduced compared with just plain zooming the lens. Unless of course your projector is a Panasonic with 'Smooth Screen Technology', in which case pixelation is zero anyway, and vertical stretch will obviously accomplish nothing in terms of reducing pixel visibility.
It always amazes me how CIH fans have propogated the myth that the A-lens improves picture resolution. It does no such thing. In fact your best picture quality may be obtained by just zooming the lens, since there is no extra glass involved. What the A-lens DOES DO, is add about 10% of screen illumination (compared with zooming) , and for some people it is a lot more convenient than zooming.
Whatever method of CIH you use, A-lens or zooming, your 2.35 picture is inevitably going to be noticeably dimmer, have less contrast, and will look a lot softer with more visible pixels, than your 16:9 projection. It all comes down to increased screen area, and there is not a damn thing that you can do about it. The A-lens does nothing to improve your picture resolution, in fact it will do the opposite if it is of poor quality.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying taffman and I'm not completely sold on the idea. When zooming, I can see the pixels are getting larger if I look closely. You're saying that by doing an anamorphic vertical stretch and then using the lens to stretch horizontally, that the pixels are increasing in size by the same amount? I don't have a lens yet, but I can do the vertical stretch using the dvdo edge and it sure doesn't look like it.

Thanks for the info.

Tom

Well I put my new (2nd hand) HTB-AR into place yesterday and watched Quantum of Solace BD last night with 3 neighbor guys and just floored 'em (and me too)!

AWESOME. Maybe I'm just not nit-picky enough, but I couldn't see any flaws.

Maybe the single-chip DLP is sharp enough to be able to give up a bit of sharpness without notice?

Anyways - Kudos HTB!

Great! Can't wait until mine arrives next week.

Just out of interest what size screen do you have? I was looking through my Blu collection and saw that the largest number are actually 2.40:1 with 2.35:1 a close second.

it's a home made BOC with ultra pure white paint.

44" tall x 103.5" wide for 2.35 for about 112" diagonal.

Well the HTB-AR I purchased through the classifieds on these forums arrived - damaged! The front glass has shifted inside the casing and has taken a small nick out of the end of the other glass and given it a scratch along the edge too. http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/canary_jules/HPIM1972.jpg UPS currently have it at their depot so as to assess 'who dunnit', so I don't know how many weeks I'll be looking at now before I get it back. I sent photos to Randy at HTB and he's been brilliant. He's confident that the damage to the edge of the glass won't make a difference because the light only passes through a small section in the middle of the prisms - the so called sweet spot. When UPS finally return the lens I have to unscrew the top and manually realign the prisms (fortunately I can see the depressions in the foam where it once sat) so I hope it won't be too difficult. Randy sent me a test image with various geometric patterns in order to do this. Has anyone done this before? I guess this is what the HTB brothers themselves have to do with each lens as part of the production process? Do you think that each lens is hand calibrated like this? Also, the prisms will need cleaning. What's the best method for that?

I've been reading in various 2.35:1 threads that using anamorphic lenses can cause up to a 33% loss in contrast. That sounds quite severe! Is this really true? Will I notice it? And should I plan to use high contrast screen material in order to counter this loss of contrast when I build my 2.37:1 screen?

Hi Jules,

yes, there is a loss in contrast, but it's not so bad as you may think. If you leave the lens in the light path all the time, you won't notice it any more after a certain time.
Hope that you can set up your lens soon and enjoy the benefits of anamorphic projection :)

Okay, I have the lens back from UPS. I've put the prisms back in place as well as I can with guidance from the HT Brothers (btw, they've been very very helpful and generous with their time). I need to rig up a proper mount to see the real benefits of this lens because at the moment I'm just holding it in front of the projector so it's moving around slightly. I can see a loss of punch in the picture - a loss of contrast and a loss of sharpness. No doubt the loss of sharpness is also due to the fact that the pixels on the disc are being spread over a larger area as much as to the optics. But as I say I need to rig up a proper mount and get it set up properly before I make a proper judgement of the lens. Now how on earth do you set up a mount?

Loss of sharpness is subjective. w/ 2:35 films I go from 3,500 sq inches (@ 92" wide) to 6,000 sq inches (@ 120" wide) when I activate V-stretch and lens. So w/ almost doubling the size of the image (at the same seated distance) you are bound to loose sharpness.

I understand. I think that's what I was trying to say. Obviously we are hugely expanding the original 2.35:1 image from the disc without adding to the resolution so it's going to look a tad softer. That considered, the image looks pretty good indeed.

I wonder with regard to loss of contrast whether folks use a high contrast screen in order to counteract this?

Another question... when I keep my lens in place and apply a 4:3 squeeze to a 16:9 picture the resultant image looks like a reasonably proportioned 16:9 image except that I get small black bars left and right - i.e. the image doesn't quite fit my 16:9 frame like it does without the lens. Does this mean that I haven't quite got prism positions right in my lens?

Another question... when I keep my lens in place and apply a 4:3 squeeze to a 16:9 picture the resultant image looks like a reasonably proportioned 16:9 image except that I get small black bars left and right - i.e. the image doesn't quite fit my 16:9 frame like it does without the lens. Does this mean that I haven't quite got prism positions right in my lens?

Not really, every display has certain amount of overscan; meaning that the image is off to the sides as well as top and bottom in order for you to not see something you shouldn't. Most displays range in 3 to 5% area of overscan. Since you are adding pillar bars to your image in order to restore the 16:9 aspect it is likely that the overscan you would normally have is at the other side of the pillar and therefore you are seeing the edge of the image and some of the pillar.

I discovered this recently on my own display when restoring to 16:9 by adding pillars, but it made me realize just how much was being overscanned in 2:35 mode. My projector had a setting to remove most of the overscan.

Okay, I have my HTB mounted on a sledge now and everything looks great apart from one area of the screen. http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/canary_jules/focusissue.jpg As you can see from the photo the top left area and just above centre is out of focus. There may actually be a problem with one of the glass prisms themselves, but barring that what do you think it is? How can it be remedied? Do I need to get the casing off the lens again and move the prisms? I can see that one of the prisms is very slightly tilted in the case. Would that be it?

Hey Guys, noob question here...

I have a Sanyo plv-z2000 that has manual focus. Since I can't focus with the lens in place, I assume you get it as sharp as possible with the lens removed and then the focus should not need to be adjusted once in place?

Tom

Unfortunately I found that once the lens is put it front of the projector it slightly de-focuses the image and requires a small adjustment to get it back just right. Maybe you can adjust prior to placing the lens in front of it, but is it that you can't quite reach the proj's. lens once the A lens is in place?

Unfortunately I found that once the lens is put it front of the projector it slightly de-focuses the image and requires a small adjustment to get it back just right. Maybe you can adjust prior to placing the lens in front of it, but is it that you can't quite reach the proj's. lens once the A lens is in place?
Thanks oman321, that is what I was worried about. Yes, the lens will need to be as close to the proj as possible which gives me no room to adjust. Guess I'll have to learn the focus "offset" before I slide it into place.

...
Would that be it?

Yes, it is possible that this focus problem is due to the prisms. For example, a miniscule unevenness on one of the prism surfaces could do this. Do you get sharp focus without the lens?

Yes I do - perfectly sharp. I've since narrowed the problem down to the prisms. If I take them out and look through them in one I can see whatever I'm looking at become distorted. HTB have confirmed this is a flaw in the glass by looking at the screenshot. Unfortunately they have also confirmed that the lens is now out of warranty. I bought the lens second hand from these forums. :( They have offered to sell me a replacement lens but I'm not sure that I should carry the cost for this.

Bummer Canary_Jules,

Are they offering to sell you just prisms, or a whole new lens?

BTW- CJ, I hope my explanation to your first question about the pillar bars helped you out. Like I stated in that post I first the discovered how much overscan I was getting and how much of the actual image was being chopped off from both the sides as well as the top and bottom when going between 2:35 and 16:9 with the lens fixed in place.

After reducing the overscan setting on my projector thru the menu I gained about 4-5 inches on either side and 2-3 inches from the top and bottom.

Just the prisms. I only need one and I've got so practised at adjusting them it'll be a breeze getting the lens up and running. I have got a picture of sorts at the moment but I have to tilt the lens so much so as to avoid the dodgy areas that the geometry is shot.

The scope bug bit me in November of '07. At the time I had a Runco CL-700 720p DLP projector and a 92" 16x9 screen. I got in on a powerbuy and picked up a Panamorph U85 VC lens.

http://www.c-not-k.com/OddsEnds/MtHebron/HomeImprovement/HT/Full/IMG_4967.jpg

I was unable to zoom or move the projector back, so I went from a 92" 1.78 to an 87" scope screen. It looked pretty underwhelming from a size standpoint. The picture quality was much better because I was now using all the pixels of my projector, instead of throwing 1/3 of them away. (I have a Crystalio II scaler to handle image resizing.)

Move forward to October '08. I sold the U85 and bought a HTB lens. (Still had the Runco.)

http://www.c-not-k.com/OddsEnds/MtHebron/HomeImprovement/HT/Full/IMG_5438.JPG

By this time, HTB had come out with their manual slide. It's a well-made piece, just like the lens.

Since my screen was painted (Screen Goo) it was easy to make it wider.

http://www.c-not-k.com/OddsEnds/MtHebron/HomeImprovement/HT/Full/IMG_5413.jpg

It's now 108"x45", or 117" 2.40. (It's still 92" @ 16x9)

Move forward to January 2009 and I have replaced the 720p Runco with a 1080p Sharp XV-Z20000.

http://www.c-not-k.com/OddsEnds/MtHebron/HomeImprovement/HT/Full/DSC_2764.JPG

(Yes, I had to move the mount.)

Here is a test pattern without the lens. (Click for the full-size image.)

http://www.c-not-k.com/OddsEnds/MtHebron/HomeImprovement/HT/Thumbs/DSC_2792.jpg (http://www.c-not-k.com/OddsEnds/MtHebron/HomeImprovement/HT/Full/DSC_2792.jpg)

It's out of focus due to photographer error.

Here is the same test pattern with the lens. (Once again, click for the full-size image.)

http://www.c-not-k.com/OddsEnds/MtHebron/HomeImprovement/HT/Thumbs/DSC_2793.jpg (http://www.c-not-k.com/OddsEnds/MtHebron/HomeImprovement/HT/Full/DSC_2793.jpg)

You can see the CA and pincushion I have. I had some with the Runco, too. (I don't remeber either with the VC lens.) Based on what I've read in this thread, it's a throw-distance thing. I also agree with Aussie Bob and CAVX's statements about two-prism lenses. I knew about the limitations before I bought it, so I'm not at all surprised or disappointed.

Here are a couple of screen shots with the lens in place.

http://www.c-not-k.com/OddsEnds/MtHebron/HomeImprovement/HT/Full/DSC_2864.JPG

Casino Royale

http://www.c-not-k.com/OddsEnds/MtHebron/HomeImprovement/HT/Full/DSC_2865.JPG

Cars

If the images look out of focus it's photographer error again. I was using my father's camera, and the autofocus didn't work too well in the low-light conditions and I found out later that he had adjusted the eyepiece to match his eyeglass prescription.

My final thoughts...

I don't think my screen captures do it justice, but I feel the lens is a great value. You can see the CA in the test patterns, but I don't notice it watching movies. The image is perhaps less sharp using the lens, but I don't mind. Few of my viewers are HT enthusiasts, but a couple have said "wow". Most importantly, I say "wow".

I have always planned on eventually getting an ISCO III. I understand enough about optics to know why it is what it is. That said, until I have the cash the HTB lens gets the job done.

Nice shots.

Well I have my received and installed my replacement prism. :) Randy at HTB has been amazing. I can truly say that HTB's customer support has been fantastic - and that has been despite the fact that until I bought the replacement lens from HTB I wasn't directly one of their customers.

In any case I have the prism in situ so I now need to work on getting the lenses properly tuned. My geometry seems fine to my eye apart from the fact that I'm getting much more CA on the right than the left of the image. The CA is quite noticeable and starts from just right of centre. What do I need to do to adjust this?

Thanks for your advice guys.

Well I have my received and installed my replacement prism. :) Randy at HTB has been amazing. I can truly say that HTB's customer support has been fantastic - and that has been despite the fact that until I bought the replacement lens from HTB I wasn't directly one of their customers.

In any case I have the prism in situ so I now need to work on getting the lenses properly tuned. My geometry seems fine to my eye apart from the fact that I'm getting much more CA on the right than the left of the image. The CA is quite noticeable and starts from just right of centre. What do I need to do to adjust this?

Thanks for your advice guys.

You cannot eliminate CA on a lens that uses 'trophies (http://www.precisioncrystal.com/catalog/products/optical-crystal-wedge.html)' as it's elements. These trophies were being used long ago by people doing DIY lenses..
here is just one thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1093723 - check out the screen shots, interesting results.

On the upside, be happy that you didn't spend lots of money on the lens. Another thing to note is you can buy those trophies for around $20
each from places like precisioncrystal.com ...Thing is you would need to find someone to coat them...

You may be able to eliminate some of the CA by double checking your projector and lens is square with the screen.

I suggest maybe that you undo the case and re align the prisms in the light path, the end result should give you symmetrical CA at the edges.
But you will never eliminate CA because the trophies are not corrected for Chromatic Abberations and astigmatism.

Hope this helps. All the best.

Thanks. I had no idea that these prisms in the HTB lenses were simple (and dirt cheap) trophies! Perhaps I shouldn't mention exact costs, but in the end buying the lens 2nd hand hasn't been cheap at all. I've had to pay large customs duties and shipping costs and then because UPS damaged one of the prisms I had to buy a replacement one from HTB. If UPS pay up then things will work out more reasonable but at the moment I've spent just short of the price of a new lens. :( I suspect that the replacement prism which HTB sent me is not coated. The ones I already had had their edges blackout and their surfaces seem duller. The replacement has none of this and I'm getting quite a big reflection across the screen.

In any case, whatever I do I cannot change the CA on the right side. I've flipped and swapped and moved the prisms around but I still get the same amount of CA on the right side!!

Thanks. I had no idea that these prisms in the HTB lenses were simple (and dirt cheap) trophies! Perhaps I shouldn't mention exact costs, but in the end buying the lens 2nd hand hasn't been cheap at all. I've had to pay large customs duties and shipping costs and then because UPS damaged one of the prisms I had to buy a replacement one from HTB. If UPS pay up then things will work out more reasonable but at the moment I've spent just short of the price of a new lens. :( I suspect that the replacement prism which HTB sent me is not coated. The ones I already had had their edges blackout and their surfaces seem duller. The replacement has none of this and I'm getting quite a big reflection across the screen.

In any case, whatever I do I cannot change the CA on the right side. I've flipped and swapped and moved the prisms around but I still get the same amount of CA on the right side!!

Perhaps email or call them to find out if it's meant to be coated or not? If you're getting ghosting by way of a 2nd image across your screen then it sounds like it's not coated.

As far as the blacked out edges, well the edges won't be coated, only the 2 main faces. People will paint the edges black to reduce any stray light bouncing around.

Thanks.

Hi Jules,

does the new prism show a green tint when you look on it? Or try to take photo with activated flashlight. When you can see exactly the "flashlight-lamp" of your camera on the pic, the prism is AR coated. But if the flash on the pic looks "blurry", then the special coating on it could be missing.

Just ask Randy about this. He will certainly help you :)

I'll try the camera shot on the prism thing Wizadlizer. In the meantime I black out the ends of the new prism and added some flock tape to the inside of the lens and the reflections seem to be gone. Which is good news. Now just to get the CA tamed. The link below is to a photo showing a 16:9 image (using 4:3 scaling in the pj and output through the lens). You can clearly see the CA on the right side. It doesn't show up so much when I show a movie - largely because my eye is on the centre of the action. Nevertheless do you think it's excessive? I tried shifting the pj around to access other parts of the lens but I still get the same effect.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/canary_jules/HPIM2010.jpg

I'll try the camera shot on the prism thing Wizadlizer. In the meantime I black out the ends of the new prism and added some flock tape to the inside of the lens and the reflections seem to be gone. Which is good news. Now just to get the CA tamed. The link below is to a photo showing a 16:9 image (using 4:3 scaling in the pj and output through the lens). You can clearly see the CA on the right side. It doesn't show up so much when I show a movie - largely because my eye is on the centre of the action. Nevertheless do you think it's excessive? I tried shifting the pj around to access other parts of the lens but I still get the same effect.

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u72/canary_jules/HPIM2010.jpg

Well.. it's as good as it gets using trophies, even if they are optically coated, that does nothing for removing CA.

Look on the bright side, you can kick back knowing you didn't spend big big dollars.

Perhaps one day you might get upgradeitis and get a proper lens. Until then CA is going to be the issue.

Okay, thanks for the reassurance. I just played around with the prisms a bit more and I've managed to tame the CA on the right side a little, but now the image I'm looking at is taller and needs to be widened. What's the simplest way of stretching the picture? Do I need to move the prisms further apart?

Okay, thanks for the reassurance. I just played around with the prisms a bit more and I've managed to tame the CA on the right side a little, but now the image I'm looking at is taller and needs to be widened. What's the simplest way of stretching the picture? Do I need to move the prisms further apart?

If you are overstretching one prism and under stretching the other, ie they're not evenly displaced, then the CA will be worse again. I would double check alignment without the lens first, make sure your 16:9 'no signal' image has an even gap on the left and right sides. If it's out by more than 2mm I would make changes to even it up. Then try the lens again, you might reduce the CA a little this way...

The best way for you to align your lens is to set up the prisms in the light path. This usually means a table top set up with the lid off. You have to have a 2.37:1 screen and you then displace the prisms so that the light is symmetrically stretched from edge to edge. When you have done this right, the CA will also be symmetrical on both sides.

I just picked up a HTB 2nd hand a month or so ago, and I can confirm that the right side of mine exhibits CA, while the left is much better (not non-existant, but not like the right side)

Very interesting Sandwedg that it should come to you in that condition. Presumably then that's what it was like when it came from HTB.

I've spent the whole morning and last night messing around with the prisms. I did manage at one point to balance the CA out slightly but that was at the expense of geometry. Circles were too tall and thin. Right now I have perfect geometry but the CA has returned to the right side. As I said the CA begins almost from the middle of the image and gets progressively worse as the image goes right. May be it just can't be fixed? All I know is I've spent days on this problem when I should have been working :eek:

I should also add that, like you, the CA is really only noticeable using grid test patterns. In movie/tv/gaming use, I can't tell.

What really surprised me is the loss of contrast. That is more noticeable to me than the CA. It's not a big difference, but noticeable - not that my new DLP is inky black, but the fades to black to seem a bit grayer than before. I don't have a head for all the optical engineering that gets bantered over here, but if all the light goes in, and all the light comes out, where does the black go? Any one with layman's terms. I've done some searching, but haven't found a real answer.

Canary_Jules - can you verify if the prisms in the HTB have "blacked out edges"? From what I can tell just looking into the lens, it doesn't look like it. I have seen a few posts about folks taping or coating the rim edges - supposedly this helps.

Yes, the original prisms in my HTB have been coated in black along their edges (top as well as bottom and sides). The replacement prism which I just received from HTB however is not coated like this. I found that as a result of this I was getting reflections on screen so I took some flock tape I had lying about and lined the edges of the prism. I also used some of the flock to line a section of the inner casing itself. The reflections then disappeared.

This may interest you Sandwedg, I sent Randy at HTB the photo of my CA and he was of the impression that there was nothing abnormal about it. Indeed, looking at C-not-K's screenies on this very page it looks like a similar situation. I wouldn't say my CA looks much worse than what he has. So I guess we have the answer.

I'm not disappointed in the least. I knew what I was getting into from the start. The bang for the buck ratio is high enough that I'm in tall cotton!

Has anyone cleaned their lens yet?

How'd it go?

For the thousandth time (at least from me)... No.

What you are describing is exactly how prisms work, and how they can only work, especially at short throws (< 80 feet) and wide beams, that is, your typical Home Theater setup.

Hybrid prisms systems like Panamorph and Prismasonic use color-corrected prisms (each prism is a actually pair, or doublet of two smaller cemented prisms made from different glasses). This reduces the color problems you have observed. They also have a corrector lens - either weak cylindrical or weak spherical, in front of or behind the prisms - which reduces the focus (astigmatism) problems, up to a point, at a certain sweet-spot. Panamorph supply different correctors for different throws.

You do not have a misalignment of your prisms. This is "classic" prism anamorphic performance. Optical engineers have known about it for centuries. HT fans are just learning about it. Some are in denial and claim extreme sharpness etc. from their simple prism systems like HTB. They're wrong. They should take off their rose colored glasses.

Did HTB ever respond to this post directly?

Did HTB ever respond to this post directly?
I doubt they will. They know the limitations of their lens and arguing about what value a prism lens brings to the market is pretty pointless, especially when those that own higher quality lenses have to constantly repeat themselves to noobs like us.

The problem is that getting into this hobby warrants learning a lot of information and most people are building a home theater on some kind of budget. Many probably make a good living but still can't afford to spend thousands on something when a more affordable option exists. So then we find ourselves asking the question, will this be "good enough" in my setup?

I purchased a HTB lens a about a month ago and I'm very happy with it. Sure, I wish it was sharper, but that's the way it goes;it's what I could afford. With the PS3 or XBMC (media center) menu up, it is nowhere near as clear as with the lens removed and I expected that. The fact that I don't have to zoom anymore for movies and can watch/play 16x9 content in cinemascope is just beautiful! This is worth repeating because I was stupid and didn't realize the benefit. Using the zoom method, there was no way to watch a 1.85:1 movie in cinemascope because it's off the screen. I'm finding that many kids movies and all PS3 games look great stretched. Playing a racing game on a 130" screen is so sweet.

There are probably people out there who are still pondering this purchase and trying to decide which way to go. Here are my thoughts. Our throw is pretty short (around 15') and the pincushioning is definitely manageable. I didn't notice much CA at all, mine seems to be very slight and even on both sides. The only real issue I see is sharpness and with a movie playing we don't even notice. Granted, I don't know what I am missing. It gets the job done and is a good value for the price.

I'll post again if I ever upgrade to the ISCO III. :)

Tom

The fact that I don't have to zoom anymore for movies and can watch/play 16x9 content in cinemascope is just beautiful! This is worth repeating because I was stupid and didn't realize the benefit. Using the zoom method, there was no way to watch a 1.85:1 movie in cinemascope because it's off the screen. I'm finding that many kids movies and all PS3 games look great stretched. Playing a racing game on a 130" screen is so sweet.

Tom

I too play and watch 16:9 content set to scope :D. I know many frown upon it, but truthfully the content hasn't really appeared badly or distorted IMO. The only time you can really tell that the image isn't what it should be is if you go from 16:9 -> 2:35 -> 16:9 and start making comparisons. Rock Band in scope is also pretty sweet. Glad to see someone else is embracing this method. I was planning on doing a masking system but I'm convinced it's not entirely necessary.

Finally got my HTB lens all set up with my DIY 2.37:1 screen and watched my first film last night - Passchendale on Blu-ray. All I can say is WOW!! There's a little pin cushion, a little CA toward the edges and a tiny area of very infrequent ghosting (I saw it about 3 times during a movie), but overall the impression of watching a scope movie on this set up is far more preferable to watching it letterboxed on 16:9. In short scope makes me actually feel like I'm at the movies! Not that I didn't before with my 16:9 screen if you know what I mean, but the HTB lens and scope screen are the icing on the cake. Although there are no doubt better lenses out there (and I might yet upgrade if a great deal comes along) the HTB is still a great entry level lens and it's given me the opportunity to get into scope without shelling out major dollars. Will post some screenies when I get a chance although I still have to implement a masking system for 16:9 - so the evolution of my home theater set up continues for the moment.

guys, what should i expect using the lens on a 2.35 128ft diagonal with a throw distance of around 20ft. ? will i get poor pq, ca, and pincushion? trying to get educated on this. thank you.

guys, what should i expect using the lens on a 2.35 128ft diagonal with a throw distance of around 20ft. ? will i get poor pq, ca, and pincushion? trying to get educated on this. thank you.

128ft? you mean 128 inches? Any non CA corrected trophy lens will give you an less than ordinary image regardless of screen size...

Has anyone cleaned their lens yet?

How'd it go?


Yes. A few weeks ago. I had to make an adjustment to my homemade slide, so I thought I would tinker with the lens while it was down.

First - it's pretty easy to disassemble if you have an Allen wrench set that goes small enough. The inside of the top and bottom metal pieces have a thin foamy liner, so where the prisms set leaves a good depression, so no worries about getting them back in the same positions.

My edges were not blacked out, so I used some black electrical tape and covered the exposed edges. Hard to say if that did any good, but I figured it couldn't hurt.

We just got a new DSLR around Christmas and also picked up a good lens cleaning kit. I worked pretty hard at the cleaning part of it. Put the prisms back in, remounted the lens, looked through the lens with the PJ on and I made it better in some regards (less surface dust speckles) and worse in others (more visible wipe marks).

What is the consensus on the recommended cleaning fluid, cloth, and process?

I would also use the DSLR lens cleaning kit, but you need to try and minimize the liquid used while at the same time making sure you either use the camera blower to dry it off or use a very soft cloth to wipe it dry. I was having a similar problem when cleaning my SLR's lens as well.

Finally got my HTB lens all set up with my DIY 2.37:1 screen and watched my first film last night - Passchendale on Blu-ray. All I can say is WOW!! There's a little pin cushion, a little CA toward the edges and a tiny area of very infrequent ghosting (I saw it about 3 times during a movie), but overall the impression of watching a scope movie on this set up is far more preferable to watching it letterboxed on 16:9. In short scope makes me actually feel like I'm at the movies! Not that I didn't before with my 16:9 screen if you know what I mean, but the HTB lens and scope screen are the icing on the cake. Although there are no doubt better lenses out there (and I might yet upgrade if a great deal comes along) the HTB is still a great entry level lens and it's given me the opportunity to get into scope without shelling out major dollars. Will post some screenies when I get a chance although I still have to implement a masking system for 16:9 - so the evolution of my home theater set up continues for the moment.

I totally agree with the HTB Lens comment. I've had mine for a little over a year now. Even if another one comes along; there is no need. I've gotten used to mine and the 2.35:1 movies just come alive, especially in Blu-Ray. For the price, it's the best investment in my home theater.

... For the price, it's the best investment in my home theater.

I totally agree. I've had my HTB lens for several years along with the sled and I don't think there is a better deal out there anywhere. A fellow AVSForum member in a close by town allowed me to see his HTB, a French Lens, and a larger prism lens (not HTB or the French lens) in his home theater. We both agreed with that the HTB lens was the best of the three.

The guys at HTB have been great, have great service, and make a tough professional looking lens and sled.

If they come up with any new products somebody please let me know. I haven't been disappointed with my purchases from HTB and look forward to doing additional business with them in the future.

They have a next generation product coming - details are on their website. A couple months away I believe.

They have a next generation product coming - details are on their website. A couple months away I believe.

Thanks!
I haven't visited their web site in several months. Going there now!

They have a next generation product coming - details are on their website. A couple months away I believe.

I just read through their web site and didn't see anything new except that their current stock of lens is low. No indications of improvements or modifications that I can find. What part of the menu is it under-Home, FAQ, etc?

Any idea what the next generation will be?

Thanks for the heads up. I'll keep checking back.

Yeah - that's their old site. Here's their new site (http://anamorphicresearch.blogspot.com/2009_05_01_archive.html) (and new name). There is also a new article posted in August worth reading.

There will be certainly a new lens from HTB / Anamorphic Research.
Randy just told me, that they will start first tests with the new prototype soon!
It will have CA correction and an astigmatism corrector.
But the best thing is, that it will probably work with throw ratios down to 1.7!!!

Well, if it will be released, i think that i will purchase it immediately and sell my actual HTB lens.

There will be certainly a new lens from HTB / Anamorphic Research.
Randy just told me, that they will start first tests with the new prototype soon!
It will have CA correction and an astigmatism corrector.
But the best thing is, that it will probably work with throw ratios down to 1.7!!!

Well, if it will be released, i think that i will purchase it immediately and sell my actual HTB lens.

This will be good news if they can price it cheaper than the Panamorphs and Prismasonics.

There will be certainly a new lens from HTB / Anamorphic Research.
Randy just told me, that they will start first tests with the new prototype soon!
It will have CA correction and an astigmatism corrector.
But the best thing is, that it will probably work with throw ratios down to 1.7!!!

Well, if it will be released, i think that i will purchase it immediately and sell my actual HTB lens.

Isn't the current low recommendation for the HTB lens 1.6?

@phisch:
I don't know the price of it, but we will have to spend more $$ than for the first lens. That's ok, since you get what you pay for.
The astigmatism corrector can also be attached to the actual HTB lens. An interessting option for those, who don't want to switch the whole lens but to upgrade it. By the way, it's cylindrical. So it won't zoom the image smaller like the spherical focus element from prismasonic.

@James:
Yes, that's correct. The new lens will have a smaller design than the old one.
I'm really curious about it :)

@phisch:
I don't know the price of it, but we will have to spend more $$ than for the first lens.

I'm sure that the new 4 element (plus corrector element) design will cost substantially more than the original 2 element trophy lens. but they are going to have the keep the price below $2K, since Panamorph and Prismasonic have the $2K and above price range locked up.

Yes, i think that it will be priced close to the Prismasonic H-5000M, with probably equal/better performance.
Anyway, the HTB provide such an excellent support, that i can advise them to everyone. These guys really care about their customers.

Yes, i think that it will be priced close to the Prismasonic H-5000M, with probably equal/better performance.
Anyway, the HTB provide such an excellent support, that i can advise them to everyone. These guys really care about their customers.

I'll second that. 1st class support.

Hello,

The new price is over the 3 times the cost. Are they still selling the older version?

Thanks,

Tyler

Sounds like a good lens for the price.

Hello, I was just wondering if anyone is currently using the Astigmatism lens attachment. I was hoping for some more info on it,or even better some user feedback. Theres not really much about it on the anamorphic research blog. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Jim

Hello, I was just wondering if anyone is currently using the Astigmatism lens attachment. I was hoping for some more info on it,or even better some user feedback. Theres not really much about it on the anamorphic research blog. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Jim

I would also be interested in hearing from folks that are using the Astigmatism lens. The picture of it on the HTB site shows no attachment aparatus that I can see. Not sure how it attaches. Would also like to see some screen shots with and without the lens attached.
:D

Here is a DIY guide (http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B8N8-0zhKqALMmZlOWUxNjgtY2Y0Yy00NWUxLTg5ZTAtYzA4NGNhNmM0YTZl&hl=en) that someone put together about using the astigmatism lens.

I think I'd prefer a mount kit from AR themselves... my DIY projects don't always look quite as nice as I picture them in my head... The instructions here look good, but I'd still rather have a manufacturers finished look.