View Full Version : Digital Projection claims 2,700 lumens from single chip DLP!


inky blacks
08-27-07, 04:39 PM
DPI ANNOUNCES SMALLEST, SINGLE-CHIP 1080p PROJECTOR WITH COLORMAXTM TECHNOLOGY

ATLANTA, GA, (September 6, 2007) – Digital Projection International (DPI), an Emmy® Award-winning manufacturer of high-performance projection systems, announced the availability of the company’s smallest 1080p display, the iVision 30-1080p. Weighing only 6.5lbs and incorporating broadly capable electronics, the iVision 30-1080p is engineered for simple integration and provides a powerful but affordable solution for elite home cinemas.

At only 3.5” tall and 11” wide, the iVision 30-1080p delivers up to 2,700 ANSI lumens through the use of a high-performance 300-watt UHP lamp. The projector is encased within a magnesium cabinet to optimize thermal efficiency, thus allowing for much higher lumen output than other projectors of similar size. Enabled with Brilliant ColorTM, the iVision 30-1080p can be ordered with any of three specialized color wheels - enhancing brightness, color or contrast. Depending on the color wheel selected, the iVision 30-1080p can produce contrast ratios up to 5000:1. Inputs include HDMI (1.3), DVI, component, composite, s-video and analog RGB.

In addition to the core technology of Brilliant ColorTM, the new iVision 30-1080p includes DP’s exclusive ColorMaxTM calibration technology. Via a radically improved setup procedure, the installer can simply measure and record the red, green and blue x and y color points and luminance values with a light meter and enter the values into a computer connected to the projector. ColorMaxTM then analyzes the user input and a software algorithm automatically calibrates all of the color settings, per input, to return a perfectly balanced d6500 color temperature output. The end result is an astounding color-accurate representation of the source content.

George Walter, DP’s home cinema market manager commented, “The new iVision 30-1080p provides an incredible new opportunity for custom integrators and installers. The projector’s small footprint assures easy integration and the powerful lamp produces dynamic images - even in rooms with a small amount of ambient light. Furthermore, the incredible 1080p resolution and integrated electronics make the iVision 30 a viable solution for installations where simplicity and imaging quality are paramount.”

Digital Projection will launch its new iVision 30-1080p at CEDIA 2007 in Denver (Booth #240). List pricing will be announced at the show and units will begin shipping in September.

buddahead
08-27-07, 04:44 PM
Great news.Hope it has lens shift.BOB

KenLand
08-27-07, 05:38 PM
I got more excited about this pj when I read that it "sports enhanced cinema-grade high-resolution optics".

No lens shift, but you have options on short and long throw and colorwheel. So you can get anywhere from 1200 max lumens to 4000 max lumens and 2500:1 or 5000:1 CR. (the 2700 lumen model has 2500:1 CR)

The spec sheet is up on their website.

Alan and/or Jason,

You're job is to get these at a great price for us :)

Ken

Bob Sorel
08-27-07, 05:56 PM
1200 lumens at 5k:1 CR would be more than enough for me...;)

TomHuffman
08-27-07, 06:51 PM
Via a radically improved setup procedure, the installer can simply measure and record the red, green and blue x and y color points and luminance values with a light meter and enter the values into a computer connected to the projector. ColorMaxTM then analyzes the user input and a software algorithm automatically calibrates all of the color settings, per input, to return a perfectly balanced d6500 color temperature output.I can't quite tell if they are talking about gray scale calibration or primary color calibration. This statement seems to slide back and forth between each.

TomHuffman
08-27-07, 06:56 PM
This (http://www.digitalprojection.com/content/view/306/2/) seems to suggest that it does both, though I get nervous when it starts claiming "Also, the projectors’ color gamut is expanded, creating a broader range of more saturated colors without sacrificing light output."

We'll see.

inky blacks
08-27-07, 10:33 PM
They have a .95 to 1 short throw lens option, which would be perfect for a 119" diagonal DNP New Wide Angle rear projection screen. You can get that screen in 123" size on special order, so you could beat out Optoma's BigVision 120" rear projection system, at a lower price. You would need about 10' behind the screen if you did not use a mirror.

IB

Jedi
08-28-07, 01:25 AM
...wow, this thing is tiny. Roughly 10" x 10" x 3".

Digital2004
08-28-07, 06:14 AM
who makes them DP or PD ?

Wet1
08-28-07, 07:00 AM
There's a lot of things I like about DLP and this PJ does look interesting. I wonder what the price is going to be?


all single-chip projectors in the company’s Vision Series, ColorMaxTM leverages the benefits of Brilliant ColorTM technology from Texas Instruments. Brilliant ColorTM enables increased projector brightness and improved color saturation by expanding the color gamut through the addition of cyan, magenta, and yellow color points. This improved gamut is achieved through advanced DMD formatters and either the addition of dedicated cyan, magenta and yellow color filters, or by including these colors within the transitional phase of conventional RGB color wheels. By adding cyan, magenta and yellow segments to the standard RGB color wheel, additional spectral energy from the lamp is captured, thus increasing projector brightness. Also, the projectors’ color gamut is expanded, creating a broader range of more saturated colors without sacrificing light output.
Isn't there another company doing somthing similar with theirs? I thought I saw this on a couple of traditional DLP displays from Mits, but I can't remember if it was Mits or not. I wonder how fast they are spinning this?

Wet1
08-28-07, 07:04 AM
This (http://www.digitalprojection.com/content/view/306/2/) seems to suggest that it does both, though I get nervous when it starts claiming "Also, the projectors’ color gamut is expanded, creating a broader range of more saturated colors without sacrificing light output."

We'll see.

That makes me cringe as well. :o

Digital2004
08-28-07, 10:52 AM
imho it's www.projectiondesign.com who does the small machine and the Cineo
DP does the big machines like TITAN etc

imho the high lumens machines by PD will be expensive, like $12-15K

coldmachine
08-28-07, 11:02 AM
There's a lot of things I like about DLP and this PJ does look interesting. I wonder what the price is going to be?



Isn't there another company doing somthing similar with theirs? I thought I saw this on a couple of traditional DLP displays from Mits, but I can't remember if it was Mits or not. I wonder how fast they are spinning this?

They are using Brilliant Color technology, same as the "other company". Everyone will be using it and "Unishape" soon enough. The effect of these technologies is not minor.


It also has a simplified CMS. Primaries only I'm afraid:(:(. There is a full spectrum CMS available now including secondaries supporting both EBU and Rec 709 from the "other company".This will be standard with everyone else soon too, possibly on thier next gens, or they'll drop behind. The days of bad color are over, or will be soon.:D:D

odyssey
08-28-07, 12:04 PM
It also has a simplified CMS. Primaries only I'm afraid:(:(. There is a full spectrum CMS available now including secondaries supporting both EBU and Rec 709 from the "other company".This will be standard with everyone else soon too, possibly on thier next gens, or they'll drop behind. The days of bad color are over, or will be soon.:D:D

Even if this is true, and I am not sure that it is, adjustment of primaries is good enough. Secondaries are derived from primaries and if a projector can’t produce correct yellow, cyan, and magenta from corrected red, green, and blue; something is very wrong with the design. Independent adjustment of secondaries is needed only if you want them to be outside the standard. This is useful in post production, but I can’t think of a reason to have it in HT.
Both the SIM and DPI systems are derived from the TI P7 CMS, which has been available in digital cinema projectors for more than five years. The P7 system does have adjustment for secondaries and other features that go beyond the SIM and DPI designs.

coldmachine
08-28-07, 12:49 PM
Even if this is true, and I am not sure that it is, adjustment of primaries is good enough. Secondaries are derived from primaries and if a projector can’t produce correct yellow, cyan, and magenta from corrected red, green, and blue; something is very wrong with the design. Independent adjustment of secondaries is needed only if you want them to be outside the standard. This is useful in post production, but I can’t think of a reason to have it in HT.
Both the SIM and DPI systems are derived from the TI P7 CMS, which has been available in digital cinema projectors for more than five years. The P7 system does have adjustment for secondaries and other features that go beyond the SIM and DPI designs.

I hear you. As to primaries only....They stated that themselves. Still a good thing. As I said, the days of bad color are numbered. The new CMS goes beyond primaries and secondaries too, thats not the point i was making though. Thanks for the info.

noah katz
08-28-07, 01:22 PM
"the iVision 30-1080p can be ordered with any of three specialized color wheels - enhancing brightness, color or contrast."

I bet those big lumen numbers are from a CW w/white segment.

tr6
08-28-07, 02:44 PM
Does anyone have any idea what it sells for?

MrWigggles
08-28-07, 03:55 PM
First off,

Odyssey is correct, if the Color Management System gets the primaries correct then the secondaries by definition have to be correct. On the CIE charts the primaries and secondaries intersect the projector's white point. The projector has to intentionally screw things up in a non-linear fashion for there not to be straight line connecting the proper primary to the proper secondary.

As for Brilliant Color, the idea of Brilliant Color is just another scheme created by TI to get more lumens out of projector and still have a "colorful" image - not really an accurate image. For a 1000 lumen projector to properly display any of common video standard, it should put out about 700 lumens of pure accurate green, 200 lumens of red and about 100 lumens of blue. (These aren't exact numbers) This means yellow should be about 900 lumens, cyan should be about 800 lumens and purple should be about 200 lumens. All of these things are doable and have been done with a 300 Watt UHP and conventional DLP design.

Now if 1000 lumens isn't enough and you can't use a brighter light source, you have to cheat and that is where Brilliant Color comes in. Back in the old days inflating lumens meant using a clear section on the colorwheel (and just pumping up the whites and thus desaturating colors to some extend). Now with Brilliant Color, they pump up the secondaries at the expense of the primaries. If you take the 1000 lumen example I mentioned above and replace the RGB colorwheel with a RGBCYM colorwheel you WILL reduce the amount of the primaries. The total light output might go up to 1500 lumens or so but the size of the RGB sections of the colorwheel will go from 1/3 to 1/6. This means that 1500 lumen projector might only produce 100 lumens of red instead of 200 lumens as it did before or even worse the 300 lumens it should do now that white is 1500 lumens.

So you see the 1500 lumen BC model at a tradeshow and it makes good colors so you buy it. But, when you get it home, you realize something ain't quite right. You play around with controls and you realize that Brilliant Color is hurting more than helping. You turn the BC off and viola your 1500 lumen projector turns into a 500 lumen projector. (With BC off half the colorwheel is now wasted space.) The bright projector you wanted is now hardly that and you wished you had bought the 1000 lumen projector that didn't use BC.

Our eyes are tri-stimulus color receptors not hex-stimulus. All of the video camera and distribution systems in the world are based on this principle. Even if someone feels video "should" be encoded in RGBCYM, it isn't and having a projector that does RGBCYM is just creating a scheme to produce more lumens with less accurate color. Stick with RGB

-Mr. Wigggles

Alan Gouger
08-28-07, 04:18 PM
I believe this projector ( Projection Design version) was on display at InfoComm.
I think we look to much into marketing and numbers otherwise we would have heard rave comments about this machine but everyone walked past it on to the next one, did not stop people in their tracks or jump out at you. Im not saying it looked bad, Im sure it looked good but I did not hear anything special from those who saw it.

muf
08-28-07, 06:34 PM
There must be varying incarnations of BC because the new InFocus 1080p projectors employ TI Brilliant color and they use an RGBRGBndG wheel. According to the users guide BC is off by default.

Jim

TomHuffman
08-28-07, 06:47 PM
The display can have perfect primaries and the secondaries can be off because of errors in color decoding and/or gray scale tracking.

odyssey
08-28-07, 08:59 PM
The display can have perfect primaries and the secondaries can be off because of errors in color decoding and/or gray scale tracking.

While this is true, the color accuracy problems from decoding and white reference errors go way beyond the secondaries. The right way to correct these is to address these problems directly.

I now see one advantage to adjusting secondaries independent of primaries. One way to increase on/off CR and light output for a projector with native white that’s not the reference white is to loosen the gray scale tracking precision. P7 allows this automatically by having a tolerance selection. For example, you can define how tightly you want D65 gray scale tracking and which direction it can be off. If you allow more tolerance to increase CR and light output, you can also decrease the resultant color errors by selecting correct secondaries.

MrWigggles
08-29-07, 12:08 PM
There must be varying incarnations of BC because the new InFocus 1080p projectors employ TI Brilliant color and they use an RGBRGBndG wheel. According to the users guide BC is off by default.

Jim
That is a different form of BC. I projector that is uses an RGB-only colorwheel can still have BC algorithms. Understanding how this works takes a little insight.

When the colorwheel moves inside a DLP projector, most of the time a single color is illuminating the DLP imager but obviously there are other times when the wheel is transitioning between colors that two colors are displayed on the imager. The transition period is called "spoke time" and traditionally it has been a period when the imager is inactive. As much as 30% of the time, the DLP projector can be in this wasted spoke time.

With BC, the projector will try and make use of the spoke time. The transition periods can be considered small sections of secondary colors. So instead of simply turning off the DLP during those time periods, it uses it to enhance the particular secdonary. Depending on how the manufacturer uses BC, this spoke time can be used to "enhance" secondary colors and/or whites in general. If you added BC firmware (without changing the wheel) to my simple 1000 lumen example above, that projector would go from doing 1000 lumens to doing 1300 lumens for a white image, yellow would go from 900 lumens to about 1150, but red would stay at 200 lumens. (IMO, brighting up yellow in particular is not a terrible idea, on big screens where the image is dim yellow turns to brown in a hurry.)

Using BC with an RGB-only colorwheel is fine. It is a "no-cost" option for the end-user. If they want to try it, they can turn it on in the user menu. If they don't like it, they can turn it off and they will get the same 1000 lumen projector they had from the begining.

-Mr. Wigggles

krasmuzik
08-29-07, 01:40 PM
First off,

Odyssey is correct, if the Color Management System gets the primaries correct then the secondaries by definition have to be correct. On the CIE charts the primaries and secondaries intersect the projector's white point. The projector has to intentionally screw things up in a non-linear fashion for there not to be straight line connecting the proper primary to the proper secondary.

As for Brilliant Color, the idea of Brilliant Color is just another scheme created by TI to get more lumens out of projector and still have a "colorful" image - not really an accurate image. For a 1000 lumen projector to properly display any of common video standard, it should put out about 700 lumens of pure accurate green, 200 lumens of red and about 100 lumens of blue. (These aren't exact numbers) This means yellow should be about 900 lumens, cyan should be about 800 lumens and purple should be about 200 lumens. All of these things are doable and have been done with a 300 Watt UHP and conventional DLP design.

Now if 1000 lumens isn't enough and you can't use a brighter light source, you have to cheat and that is where Brilliant Color comes in. Back in the old days inflating lumens meant using a clear section on the colorwheel (and just pumping up the whites and thus desaturating colors to some extend). Now with Brilliant Color, they pump up the secondaries at the expense of the primaries. If you take the 1000 lumen example I mentioned above and replace the RGB colorwheel with a RGBCYM colorwheel you WILL reduce the amount of the primaries. The total light output might go up to 1500 lumens or so but the size of the RGB sections of the colorwheel will go from 1/3 to 1/6. This means that 1500 lumen projector might only produce 100 lumens of red instead of 200 lumens as it did before or even worse the 300 lumens it should do now that white is 1500 lumens.

So you see the 1500 lumen BC model at a tradeshow and it makes good colors so you buy it. But, when you get it home, you realize something ain't quite right. You play around with controls and you realize that Brilliant Color is hurting more than helping. You turn the BC off and viola your 1500 lumen projector turns into a 500 lumen projector. (With BC off half the colorwheel is now wasted space.) The bright projector you wanted is now hardly that and you wished you had bought the 1000 lumen projector that didn't use BC.

Our eyes are tri-stimulus color receptors not hex-stimulus. All of the video camera and distribution systems in the world are based on this principle. Even if someone feels video "should" be encoded in RGBCYM, it isn't and having a projector that does RGBCYM is just creating a scheme to produce more lumens with less accurate color. Stick with RGB

-Mr. Wigggles

Superb explanation - and explains why PJ's seem to have more marketed brightness and contrast - yet their performance at REC709/D65 is nothing special - and is fact even a worse drop from marketed performance than prior generations - because the PJ is not optically optimized for REC709/D65. I guess it is time to trot back out the BrilliantColor is NOT a calibration feature threads...it allows you to blow out the whites and bright colors much better than the WhitePeaking of old - but they really just changed the name of the control. I dare anyone who does not agree - try to find the WhitePeaking control on a BrilliantColor PJ!

muf
08-29-07, 05:04 PM
Thanks for the excellent explanation of RGB only Brilliant Color Mr Wigggles. I can follow it completely and appreciate your efforts.

Jim