I bought some high end electronics and my generic universal cable box remote doesn't list codes for these not very common brands of gear. So I'm looking at buying one an aftermarket universal remote and was wondering is it really worth it to go RF? Quite honestly I'm not even sure how the RF works. My system is a pretty basic two channel system with TV, CD player, DVD player, Cable Box, Squeezebox, Integrated Amp. Note that price isn't really a concern for me (preferably under $500 though). Thanks.

I bought some high end electronics and my generic universal cable box remote doesn't list codes for these not very common brands of gear. So I'm looking at buying one an aftermarket universal remote and was wondering is it really worth it to go RF? Quite honestly I'm not even sure how the RF works. My system is a pretty basic two channel system with TV, CD player, DVD player, Cable Box, Squeezebox, Integrated Amp. Note that price isn't really a concern for me (preferably under $500 though). Thanks.
You can probably use RF successfully, but I have heard users complain of "RF lag" (whatever that is). Otherwise, there is also the IR repeater solution, which starts at about $80 with Hot Link Pro (amazon.com) and Xantech or Buffalo solutions (smarthome.com, amazon.com ...). I would recommend you choose a decent remote for which you like the style and layout. Then use either RF if it has it, or IR extenders.

http://www.hot-link.com/hotlink_pro.htm
http://www.smarthome.com/8120r4.html

You really only need an RF remote if you don't have good line-of-sight to your components. If your stuff is in a closet or in a cabinet then you may consider an RF or IR repeater solution. Otherwise just focus on getting a good remote and at your price range there should be more than enough to choose from.

PS. I'll have a Harmony 880 for sale after my 890 arrives today :)

When implemented properly RF is worth it. You don't have to worry about the dog running in front of the remote when sending a macro for instance. It can add to the consistancy of the remote.

That being said, if you have a lot of interference some of the more inexpensive RF devices might have trouble operating properly. They may not though...

Roddy, could you explain what supposed RF lag is and how prevalent it is etc.? I've heard people mention it in other posts but none gave any details of what they were experiencing. They just pointed it out as "something you have to get used to" or "may not like" with RF.

(Everyone else that wants to is welcome to contribute.)

An RF remote send its RF signal to a receiver that in turn outputs an IR signal to control the equipment. Since there's an extra step (remote sending its signal to the receiver) compare to an IR remote, there may be a slight delay. On my setup, the delay is definitely less than a second. I can still channel surf without significant problems, but it just doesn't feel quite as "snappy" as using an IR remote because of the slight delay.

The benefit of not having to point the remote at the equipment, though, is well worth it for me.

I wonder if IR repeaters experience any lag (would it depend on the distance involved?).

Some IR repeaters improve the sensitivity of reception so that "line of sight" is less of an issue. I wonder if that can help to avoid missed portions of a string of commands due to the passage of a dog/wife/other.

Personally I think RF is worth it. I have all of my equipment right out in front of me and I still use RF because it increases the reliability of the control system. Even with the basic system that you outlined in the first post there are going to be system macros that require multiple steps. Watching a movie for instance may require TV ON, TV Video-1, DVD On, Receiver On, Recever - DVD Mode... that's a minimum of six steps. If your remote takes 3 seconds to initiate this sequence that's a lot of time for someone to walk in the way or for you to inadvertently move the remote and miss a command. Now you need to spend the next few second figuring out why there no picture or sound. And what happens if you're not home? Will the rest of the family be able to figure it out? A reliable RF system means you could be conducting an orchestra with the remote and you're equipment will still receive the commands.

I believe that most (if not all) RF remotes also send out an IR signal in addition to the RF signal (they're redundant), so you can use them as you would normally if you have line of sight and the lag is an issue. They are more expensive, but the flexibility is nice. Also my wife is able to use the system without problems. That makes it well worth it!

Thanks for the replies. I was looking at the Harmony 880 and 890 which seem a bit overkill for my system but they really feel like quality items compared to the $50 ones. I don't have a problem with line of sight since my stuff is out in the open but the RF does sound pretty cool. I can't seem to find out how they work though? How does it connect up with the IR signal that the equipment needs? Do you install something in front of the eye on each piece of equipment? That seems like it could look pretty tacky.

How is the equipment library for Harmony? I have some high end PS Audio gear and a Squeezebox which isn't exactly mass produced mainstream gear.

How does it connect up with the IR signal that the equipment needs? Do you install something in front of the eye on each piece of equipment? That seems like it could look pretty tacky.

How is the equipment library for Harmony? I have some high end PS Audio gear and a Squeezebox which isn't exactly mass produced mainstream gear.
The H890 comes with a RF "base" which can either "flash" an entire area, or use individual emitters that you have to stick over the IR sensors of each piece of equipment. All IR repeaters (RF or not) work this way: flasher or stuck on emitter. If you think that is tacky, you may not need RF since you have line of sight, in which case you just saved yourself $100 (880 on amazon.com = $130, 890 with RF = $230).

The Harmony device library currently contains more than 3,500 brands and over 180,000 devices. I do not think anyone elso can equal that. In any case, CS will add anything that is missing. I have some obscure stuff myself, and have had no issues. If you do, contact CS and they will just add it. You should not have any issues with missing equipment as long as it is IR.

Thanks for the replies. I was looking at the Harmony 880 and 890 which seem a bit overkill for my system but they really feel like quality items compared to the $50 ones. I don't have a problem with line of sight since my stuff is out in the open but the RF does sound pretty cool. I can't seem to find out how they work though? How does it connect up with the IR signal that the equipment needs? Do you install something in front of the eye on each piece of equipment? That seems like it could look pretty tacky.

How is the equipment library for Harmony? I have some high end PS Audio gear and a Squeezebox which isn't exactly mass produced mainstream gear.

yjis might help http://www.remoteshoppe.com/index.php?itemid=267&catid=12

The products we work with do not send out both IR and RF (one of them can, but does not) and they do not suffer from any sort of RF lag.

That being said, we use products that have a processor that handles everything. Crestron and RTI. Neither of which are cheap.

In my early days we played with the RF pyramid from Radio Shack and some other types of RF extender. Some worked okay, some did not. I have left the experimental stage in my life as far as RF goes so I have a very biased opinion in this regards. I also do this for a living so what is acceptable to you might not be acceptable to me.

Your miles may vary...

I think I'm going to go with the 880 IR only remote. I'm so trained to point it at the component I'd probably still do it out of force of habit even if I had RF.:) Plus for only $125 on Amazon its pretty darn cheap.