http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/ifa2007/hd-dvd-press-conference-in-fast-forward-295636.php

i love the quotes givin to try to fight back blu rays sales quotes yesterday haha, especially the line " the consumer is already happy with DVD" ... way to sell your product toshiba.

Double You T Eff!

That's it? :mad:

Hey this is the BR software section.

Not the HD DVD flame bait section.

Hey this is the BR software section.

Not the HD DVD flame bait section.

they talk about blu ray at the HD dvd confrence

dude,
take a look at your thread title. and then read your comments.
Not one mention of BR. You started this to flame HD DVD - not talk about BR software.

Don't be coy - this does nothing to help the already polluted waters of this forum from becoming just another forum of people shouting at each other.

blu ray fans at it again, heh nothing new LOL

blu ray fans at it again, heh nothing new LOL

So your answer is to respond in kind and fuel the fire?

STOP THE INSANITY!!!

why is this called a format war if everyone talks nicely about each other? shouldnt it be called " A format happy disagreement" then? like it or not, what HD DVD says at their press conference effects the blu ray format.

why is this called a format war if everyone talks nicely about each other? shouldnt it be called " A format happy disagreement" then? like it or not, what HD DVD says at their press conference effects the blu ray format.

It's a tea party mate.

Worst thread ever. Or today at least

It's a format war.
I had no idea you were a format. My sincerest apologies Mr. Troll.

I knew that they would bomb today. BD had a great day yesterday and really put to rest Warner going exclusive. I also love how the HD-DVD guys thought Disney was going neutral and Warner was going exclusive and they were going to announce $99 players and Warner, Universal, and Paramount were going to get rid of DVD's all together and only sell combo discs and....shall I continue?

I knew that they would bomb today. BD had a great day yesterday and really put to rest Warner going exclusive. I also love how the HD-DVD guys thought Disney was going neutral and Warner was going exclusive and they were going to announce $99 players and Warner, Universal, and Paramount were going to get rid of DVD's all together and only sell combo discs and....shall I continue?

Please continue here if you feel a need - in a thread on the appropriate forum.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=900443

allyou red trools stay under you bridges where you belong

We have a rainbow of troll flavors here.

:d

I knew that they would bomb today. BD had a great day yesterday and really put to rest Warner going exclusive. I also love how the HD-DVD guys thought Disney was going neutral and Warner was going exclusive and they were going to announce $99 players and Warner, Universal, and Paramount were going to get rid of DVD's all together and only sell combo discs and....shall I continue?

finally someone with a reasonable response to this thread to start a conversation, not people whining about trolls.

Why do people get personal about a comment? Man..get a life please. There are more important things in life to get all pissy over a comment like "HD-DVD sucks".

I'm not personally offended by it for cripes sake. I'm a BR supporter.

Just holding onto that naive hope these forums might some day hold the same civility and maturity level the rest of AVS has in other sections. Instead of having it's name being dragged through the mud as the ground zero of nerd fighting like so many other forums have. We just lost one of our best insiders because of the level of toxicity from both sides of this. I know most of the long term AVS members are sick of it and I know the Mods have all expressed their exhaustion over dealing with it. But there are still a very vocal majority who care more about jumping on a one-upman's soap box than the actual community itself.


and ps: anyone who posts on an online forum should stay away from phrases like "get a life".

Why do people get personal about a comment? Man..get a life please. There are more important things in life to get all pissy over a comment like "HD-DVD sucks".

Or that blu ray sucks or that girls suck :) its all personal opinion and some of us think that way and some disagree.

We have a rainbow of troll flavors here.

LOL so true....

People who support hddvd, people who support blur ay and people who suport both or neither lol

Sorry to say but blu ray.com is sounding more like a bunch of children post here. I am sick of hearing about HD DVD. This is a forum for blu ray Right! people quit worrying and talking about HD DVD!

Here's a little better account of the events:

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=65757

the point is we have 3 forum sections for discussing HDM.

One for BR one for HD DVD and one for general HDM.

If you want to duke it out - the best place to do it is in the general section. So that the forumers that don't care to bare witness to the endless bickering can still discuss their HDM of choice. It's a good system that approaches making this place for everyone looking to join a discussion on HDM. But it only works if you follow the system, read the rules stickied on every forum and respect the people who don't want to fight about HDM, but talk about it. When you post inflammatory threads in the BR or HD DVD sections it almost obligates people from the other side to go toe to toe and defend. That means more people looking for a fight in all the threads. So there are plenty of threads in the general section ready for you to declare your hatred for the other side. Here is the IFA general thread in the General HDTV Media section. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=899194&page=9

dildatonr,

The latest victim of this "War" is paidgeek.:(
The REAL War should be AVS vs. Trollers.

dildatonr,

The latest victim of this "War" is paidgeek.:(
The REAL War should be AVS vs. Trollers.

Amen.

Double You T Eff!

That's it? :mad:

I'm not sure what people were expecting? Venturer to sell a $50 HD DVD player? Disney to go exclusive?

Neither the HD DVD or BD conferences had any real bombshells. There's always CEDIA of course ;)

Ken Graffeo of Universal Studios says:

He asks, what's important to studios? Standalone players, not game machines. The jury is still out on whether gamers will still buy movies in favor of games. Universal don't think so. According to GFK, for every 2 PS3s, 1 movie is sold, compared to HD DVD, where 4 movies are bought for every player.

I find this interesting. If true, PS3 would have to sell 8 times as much to obtain parity on software. Since BD is outselling HD DVD by roughly 2:1 since PS3 launced that would mean PS3 must be selling close to 16 times as much as HD DVD SAL players (partially offset by BD standalones). Anyone know the claimed sales ratios (I've seen them, but don't recall right now).

i have to disagree i own a ps3 and 40 br disks and 1 game

Ken Graffeo of Universal Studios says:



I find this interesting. If true, PS3 would have to sell 8 times as much to obtain parity on software. Since BD is outselling HD DVD by roughly 2:1 since PS3 launced that would mean PS3 must be selling close to 16 times as much as HD DVD SAL players (partially offset by BD standalones). Anyone know the claimed sales ratios (I've seen them, but don't recall right now).

another normal non whining post, good job, and a good point too.

i have to disagree i own a ps3 and 40 br disks and 1 game

and their is 80 people with ps3 who have 0 movies and a couple of games in your place....

Just holding onto that naive hope these forums might some day hold the same civility and maturity level the rest of AVS has in other sections. Instead of having it's name being dragged through the mud as the ground zero of nerd fighting like so many other forums have. We just lost one of our best insiders because of the level of toxicity from both sides of this. I know most of the long term AVS members are sick of it and I know the Mods have all expressed their exhaustion over dealing with it. But there are still a very vocal majority who care more about jumping on a one-upman's soap box than the actual community itself.

Absolutely. Right now, to find any useful information requires sifting through thread after thread and post after post of garbage. Frankly, I don't really give a darn about what Joe Shmoe ordered, pre ordered, or received in the mail. And I don't really care about Joe Shmoe's endless, absurd, and meaningless speculation about every minicule aspect of HD DVD or BD.

I think the only way to stop this is to close all the HD related DVD forums (that includes BD) for a month. Then reopen them with strict moderation. No posting about having ordered, preordered, received a disk, war, etc. AND NO SPECULATION THREADS. One warning to the poster. Then he's gone. [/UNQUOTE]



and ps: anyone who posts on an online forum should stay away from phrases like "get a life".

Oh, isn't that the truth. I wonder how many spend over 6 hours a day in the forum. I'll bet there are plenty.

I play my blu-ray discs on a PS3 and I own 219 discs

Did you see the comment that was made also saying "gamers don't buy movies." A lot of people are ticked off at that comment. Basically saying gamers are idiots.

I never understood that theory.What does being a gamer have to do with being a movie fan?They're two different forms of entertainment,and there is no criteria that to be a fan of one is to NOT be a fan of the other.

As far as the PS3 as a player argument,I don't think the studios care HOW their movies are being played,as long as they are being bought.Because the PS3 is primarily a game console first,it's easy to dismiss as a 'real' player. HD-DVD was killing blu-ray before PS3 came out.The 'PS3' effect has leveled out as the year has passed,but it has allowed Bluray to seize and maintain a considerable lead,despite lower standalone sales.Take away the PS3,and it looks even worse for HD-DVD that with dedicated players,they still are being outsold by a format that relies primarily on a 'game console' for it's install base,and with currently incomplete technical specs.

Ken Graffeo of Universal Studios says:



I find this interesting. If true, PS3 would have to sell 8 times as much to obtain parity on software. Since BD is outselling HD DVD by roughly 2:1 since PS3 launced that would mean PS3 must be selling close to 16 times as much as HD DVD SAL players (partially offset by BD standalones). Anyone know the claimed sales ratios (I've seen them, but don't recall right now).

IIRC that is actually pretty close to the numbers; I think worldwide there's been about 4.4 million PS3s sold. Divided by 16 = 275,000, which IIRC is pretty close to the number of standalone HD DVD players sold

Why hasn't this thread been closed?

I'm going to start by saying that threads like this are counterproductive; that said, their equivalents in the HD DVD forums - with inflammatory titles just like this - are many and frequent, and rarely is there the same sort of social backlash. I've gone on record before as saying the moderation on this forum is uneven, and I'll do so again here. There are plenty of here lambasting this thread... hey, I think you have every right. But I'd love to see the same dedication when bait or "lording" threads are created on the HD DVD forums - instead it's quite the love-fest.

The trolling/baiting/nonsense on the forum has to come under control, but that's not the responsibility of the mods... that's up to us. So, let's try to call out nonsense *wherever* it's seen, rather than just when it's with regard to something that aggravates us personally. The BD forums have been particularly ravaged by 'visitors' post-Paramount, and personally I have a high interest in seeing the trolls booted. I ask nothing for here that I wouldn't hope the HD DVD forums to benefit from as well in terms of 'troll control.'

I never understood that theory.What does being a gamer have to do with being a movie fan?They're two different forms of entertainment,and there is no criteria that to be a fan of one is to NOT be a fan of the other.

As far as the PS3 as a player argument,I don't think the studios care HOW their movies are being played,as long as they are being bought.Because the PS3 is primarily a game console first,it's easy to dismiss as a 'real' player. HD-DVD was killing blu-ray before PS3 came out.The 'PS3' effect has leveled out as the year has passed,but it has allowed Bluray to seize and maintain a considerable lead,despite lower standalone sales.Take away the PS3,and it looks even worse for HD-DVD that with dedicated players,they still are being outsold by a format that relies primarily on a 'game console' for it's install base,and with currently incomplete technical specs.

yeah i agree, i have to say prolly a large majority of PS3 owners ( if they have an HDTV) prolly have bought or at least rented a blu ray movie. alot are prolly buying all new movies in blu ray and just keepign there old dvds they all ready have. i am doin both. i am a PS3 owner with 4 games and 4 blu ray movies. the only reason i dont have more blu ray movies is cause im not gettign my HDTV till november when it gets released.

and with that said, time to leave work and go play Warhawk. eveyyone have a good long weekend.

Why hasn't this thread been closed?

Trolling threads seem to be allowed as long as the kids stick to their sandbox.

HD DVD press confrence at IFA BOMBS!!!
Are you serious!?

They unveiled a new HD DVD burner at the conference!! And of course it has undercut the BD burner price... but I expected that ;)

i have to disagree i own a ps3 and 40 br disks and 1 game

Nobody's saying that some people don't buy a ton of discs for their PS3. That's an average...each PS3 owner couldn't buy half a disc :)

Are you serious!?

They unveiled a new HD DVD burner at the conference!! And of course it has undercut the BD burner price... but I expected that ;)

If that get ever released... they have been annonce many time since a year now.

I play my blu-ray discs on a PS3 and I own 219 discs

AaronSCH
Blu-ray Addict


Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 1,403



the point is total discs sold compared to number of PS3s sold equalls .5 discs sold per PS3. he wasn't making this up to make Blu-ray look bad he was stating a fact. Just like right now Blu-rays are outselling Hd-dvds 2 to 1 is a fact in Blu-rays favour.
what he and some other execs at other studios are noticing is that the PS3 Blu-rays biggest selling player will need to sell into the high tens of millions in order to sell enough movies to make a dent at becoming the replacement for dvd. If this ratio stays the same all the Hd-dvd camp needs is one player to sell for every 8 PS3s from here on out to stay even in sales of discs, what might happen when there are $149.00 players out in the wild is what studios like Universal and Paramount are banking on.

AaronSCH
Blu-ray Addict


Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 1,403



the point is total discs sold compared to number of PS3s sold equalls .5 discs sold per PS3. he wasn't making this up to make Blu-ray look bad he was stating a fact. Just like right now Blu-rays are outselling Hd-dvds 2 to 1 is a fact in Blu-rays favour.
what he and some other execs at other studios are noticing is that the PS3 Blu-rays biggest selling player will need to sell into the high tens of millions in order to sell enough movies to make a dent at becoming the replacement for dvd. If this ratio stays the same all the Hd-dvd camp needs is one player to sell for every 8 PS3s from here on out to stay even in sales of discs, what might happen when there are $149.00 players out in the wild is what studios like Universal and Paramount are banking on.

Of course stand alone Blu-ray players will never drop in price. It's not like we will begin to see players that are cheaper then the ps3 in the next few months.:confused:

Of course stand alone Blu-ray players will never drop in price. It's not like we will begin to see players that are cheaper then the ps3 in the next few months.:confused:

of couse they will drop in price just not in the under $200.00 rage for a couple of years. although I wish they would I would give my kids the PS3 for their room and put a cool and quiet 2.0 player right in the livingroom.

Will the sub $200 player buyers be expected to pay a premium for for HD moives? what wil happen on new release Tuesday when the dvd is on sale for 14.99 while the HD DVD is 29.99? I could see lots of these cheap HD DVD players being relegated to dvd playing for a long time because of that.

Blu-ray players will drop,in fact looking at how much each cost originally you could say Blu-ray players have dropped further.Right now HD-DVD is cheaper,but the cost of players will have to level out at some point without outright giving the damn things away.As blu-ray currently has the advantage in CE manufacturers,the competition between those companies should push the BR prices down further,untill they're close to HD-DVD prices.At that point,what's next for HD-DVD,unless they're able to snag another studio or have one go neutral?

If that get ever released... they have been annonce many time since a year now.

The new HD DVD burner has ALREADY been released and is selling right now on the other side of the pond (Europe). Not sure why they started there but it'll come to North America pretty fast.

They're external burners and they're STILL coming in cheaper than that of BD.

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/dvdpvr/0,39030701,49292535,00.htm

What does this have to do with BD?

Nothing?.....ahh, it's trolling/flaming.

Here's the only announcement that so far has actually mattered this year.

Transformers, Shrek = HD DVD exclusive.

I'm completely format neutral and own about 45 blu-ray discs, but the blu-boy spin is so nauseating. Come off it, your "team" was outplayed big time in August...just shake hands like good boys and come out swinging next time.

What does this have to do with BD?

Nothing?.....ahh, it's trolling/flaming.

I was merely pointing out that the HD DVD "bombs" headline is untrue. A HD DVD burner was both unveiled and released for retail sale. That may not be big news for movie watchers... but it's BIG news to the video editing community!!! Don't blame me for somebody else putting a HD DVD thread in the blu ray forum.... I mean really... SOMEBODY has to try and keep the FUD under control around the BD forum ;)

I mean really... SOMEBODY has to try and keep the FUD under control around the BD forum ;)

..and who is doing it over in HD DVD la la land? I thought Warner wasn't releasing on Blu-ray anymore? Gimme a break.

This isn't a format war... it's a wake.

This isn't a format war... it's a wake.

I wouldn't call it a wake. Paramount simply put HD DVD on life support. Allowing it to hobble its way through the holidays.

I believe it is costing the BDA group around $1000 for each disk sold (assuming PS3 is part of the overall BD strategy and cost structure). But without the PS3, BD is already dead! Houston, we have a problem!

I believe it is costing the BDA group around $1000 for each disk sold (assuming PS3 is part of the overall BD strategy and cost structure). But without the PS3, BD is already dead! Houston, we have a problem!

If Blu-ray is already dead then HD DVD has turned to dust. Once again Plazman is more intelligent than the major electronics manufacturers and content providers. IFA saw a virtual parade of new players unveiled. They should have fired all their high-paid analysts and hired him... truly laughable.

I believe it is costing the BDA group around $1000 for each disk sold (assuming PS3 is part of the overall BD strategy and cost structure). But without the PS3, BD is already dead! Houston, we have a problem!

Correct.

I don't understand their buisness model, aren't they supposed to be making money? :confused:

If Blu-ray is already dead then HD DVD has turned to dust. Once again Plazman is more intelligent than the major electronics manufacturers and content providers. IFA saw a virtual parade of new players unveiled. They should have fired all their high-paid analysts and hired him... truly laughable.

More obsolete players huh? :confused: Seriously, why would anyone buy a BD stand alone knowing what we know? ....

I think the only way to stop this is to close all the HD related DVD forums (that includes BD) for a month. Then reopen them with strict moderation. No posting about having ordered, preordered, received a disk, war, etc. AND NO SPECULATION THREADS. One warning to the poster. Then he's gone.

I largely agree. All "speculation" threads and discussions of the "format war" should at least be limited to the "HDTV Software Media Discussion Area." Let the various fanboys fight it out there and allow people who simply want to watch and discuss movies, be it in BD or HD-DVD format, in peace in their respective areas.

Even if I ignore the threads with obvious fanboy titles, fanboy comments slip into and take over others and the various fanboy threads push more substantive discussions onto the second and third where I and others are less likely to see them.

I've enjoyed AVS for years but this crap has me looking for an alternative. Self-regulation is a fantasy, a unicorn in a world of plow-horses. All it takes is one or two people to undo the self-control of dozens, even hundreds.

More obsolete players huh? :confused: Seriously, why would anyone buy a BD stand alone knowing what we know? ....

Exactly. :)

I misread the title of the thread.

I thought it said "HD DVD press conference is da BOMB!!!"

Now I'm bummed.

If the HDDVD group wants to discount the PS3, they're in for a big surprise. Even today, with few AAA titles out the PS3 has single handled crushed EVERY player released by HDDVD by selling software at a 2:1 margin.

Things to note:

1) HDDVD players have been selling at 1/2 the price of the PS3 since fathers day, yet there has been no increase in their software sales

2) I believe BD will extend the lead in software sales despite Paramounts defection in the coming months BECAUSE of the strength of the PS3. AAA titles such as Unreal Tournament, Heavenly Sword, Warhawk, Gran Turismo 5 Prologue are starting to roll out this month and will only increase sales.

3) Stand alone HDM players are not a compelling buy even at $199. This is proven by the lack of effect that Toshiba's $199 players have had, 2-3 months into their big sales. There are simply too many other costs involved at this current time to get the common consumer excited. The need to match the HDM player with an HDTV, new HDMI recevier, and to re-buy a whole new catalog of titles is not enticing. Most people will not go through such a huge upgrade JUST to watch movies.

The PS3 however sneaks in full HDM functionality into a game machine. The costs of upgrading the rest of the system appears more palatable when you can also play games such as Gran Turismo 5 in HD.

^^^

That the PS3 is chosen by some enthusiasts as their main BD player is mainly due to price, value and features. People who don't understand that there are PS3 used primarily as a BD player will never understand why the blu cases outsell the red cases 2:1.

This is also why the x360 HD DVD addon initially outsold the standalone players. Until the HD-A1/A2 got to the $240 price range, the addon was handily outselling the standalones.

Everything I've seen shows that after factoring the addons and the ps3 and the standalones, attach rate is identical for both. The enthusiasts who lean either way are very similar in their outlook towards movies, even on their movie choices (300 sells very well on both, Babel flopped on both), and there is nothing that would explain why any one group on average will buy more movies than the other. If you cut any of these supporters, you will find they have blue veins and red ateries, similar to people who don't care about HDM.

The simple fact is that the HDM movie sales are telling us that at this point, outside of AVSFORUM, the installed base is likely around 2:1 in the blu favor once we factor in all the gadgets that can play the HDMs. AVSFORUM however, has attracted a large number of red case buyers, perhaps there is some reason for this? The moderators here could perhaps meet internally if they should follow digitalbits lead and decide if they wish to support one format. That would make the majority of their HDM members very happy, and make the articles more friendly as the the riff-raff who support the other format would have no reason to continue posting here.

Ken Graffeo of Universal Studios says:



I find this interesting. If true, PS3 would have to sell 8 times as much to obtain parity on software. Since BD is outselling HD DVD by roughly 2:1 since PS3 launced that would mean PS3 must be selling close to 16 times as much as HD DVD SAL players (partially offset by BD standalones). Anyone know the claimed sales ratios (I've seen them, but don't recall right now).


I think that comment by Universal is a tad delusional. Since there wasn't that many decent launch titles for the PS3 when it first came out and even still, most people I know, including myself bought it for watching movies first and then games when they come out, and his fall shows some promise for the gaming side of things. Now that has boughten the Blu-Ray camp time to get cheaper players to market. There is so much "Fuzzy" math with sales figures on both sides of the fence, so who knows what is going on right now! :eek:

Exactly. :)

Another BS thread out of place... ;) I mean come on, my S-7000 still plays
CDs and DVD... WTF.... You guys are taking that PIP and interactivty BS to a whole new level. Maybe this is of important to you but the general public, could give a rats ass about PIP on a player or the extras... If memory serves me right, my PS3 plays more formats than your A1 or A2 does... And the S-300 and many other Blu-Players still play DVDs and up-converts them, many still play CDs and they play all current BLU-RAY movies now... Doh!!! :eek:

I see from looking at this Thread we have about 5-6 of the same guys that Troll here to spread BS from the HD-DVD forum, not going to point any fingers but come on guys if your trying to convert people you would be best served walking through BB and CC trying to convert some one on the front lines.... ;) I own both formats but you not going to see me over in the HD-DVD forum bashing the format, I like both, but I am leaning more Blu for various reason, Video Editing for one... etc..

Absolutely. Right now, to find any useful information requires sifting through thread after thread and post after post of garbage. Frankly, I don't really give a darn about what Joe Shmoe ordered, pre ordered, or received in the mail. And I don't really care about Joe Shmoe's endless, absurd, and meaningless speculation about every minicule aspect of HD DVD or BD.

Yeah, AVS is pretty much starting to suck real bad. I joined in about 05, but i lurked for a lot longer than that. before it was a place to exchange info, learn about new techs, and try to find the best product for you. Now it's nothing more than vs threads. CRT vs DLP pj's, bd vs hd, xbox vs ps3. its disgusting. There's a few good sections on here, like why you dont need hdmi 1.3 thread, the future proof receiver thread, and the htib alternative thread. for the most part theres no spin, negativity, trolls, or crap. just knowledgeable people trying to educate fellow posters. Sadly those types of threads are starting to be impossible to find on this site lately

I think the only way to stop this is to close all the HD related DVD forums (that includes BD) for a month. Then reopen them with strict moderation. No posting about having ordered, preordered, received a disk, war, etc. AND NO SPECULATION THREADS. One warning to the poster. Then he's gone.

to be honest, I personally think the mods keep it going because of the increased traffic the site is getting. I just wish to God they'd be more strict in this section or just go ahead and close it down all together. Your troll/threadcrap once, auto-ban. twice perma-ban. that'll restore order in about month tops. hopefully somethings done soon, but im not holding my breath

I see from looking at this Thread we have about 5-6 of the same guys that Troll here to spread BS from the HD-DVD forum, not going to point any fingers but come on guys if your trying to convert people you would be best served walking through BB and CC trying to convert some one on the front lines.... ;) I own both formats but you not going to see me over in the HD-DVD forum bashing the format, I like both, but I am leaning more Blu for various reason, Video Editing for one... etc..

And their voices are small and fall on deaf ears. I am learning more and more that what we do on this forum, whether it is arguing, information, trolling, etc. it doesn't even make a dent to a small portion of the general public. Almost NO ONE knows of the Paramount deal. Let them say what they want. Even with NO new releases last week BD still sold more discs then HD-DVD. What does that tell you?

If the HDDVD group wants to discount the PS3, they're in for a big surprise.


It's not the "HD DVD group" that is discounting the PS3. It's the various statistical counters that are keeping a separate count.

The PS3 happens to be best player that BD has.... the problem is that it is recognized first and foremost as a "game console". Video enthusiasts have no problems with a "game console" in their living rooms. But with Joe public it's a different ballgame. I for example have kids and I have gone to great lengths to see that they have their own game room so the wife and I don't have to deal with the mess in OUR living room (if you have kids then you KNOW where I'm coming from!!) I wouldn't be caught dead in a million years putting a PS3 in my living room! I want a "player", not a "game console".

One other thing to think about... the PS2 is quite capable of playing DVD's, yet it was never considered a dvd player. Playing dvd's on the PS2 has always been, and always will be a secondary issue. I suspect in the grand scheme of things, the same will occur with the PS3.

After reading this thread I think I'll head back over to blu-ray.com. I mean no offense, but too much is wasted here on emotional arguments.
I have nothing against hd-dvd, but even the inventors of the product don't seem to be taking it very seriously. How emotionally invested can one be in their plight.
Why any non senior citizen would purchase a hd-dvd player over a PS3 is beyond me.
I have a PS3, a Xbox 360, one game for each system, and 23 blu-rays. I didn't get Mr. Graffeos' memo before buying the movies or I would've known I wasn't supposed to be interested in hi-def movies.

And their voices are small and fall on deaf ears. I am learning more and more that what we do on this forum, whether it is arguing, information, trolling, etc. it doesn't even make a dent to a small portion of the general public. Almost NO ONE knows of the Paramount deal. Let them say what they want. Even with NO new releases last week BD still sold more discs then HD-DVD. What does that tell you?

If you're talking about the Nielson thread, then you do know that the numbers are NOT from the current week, right? They run behind.

It's funny that we have people complaining about HD DVD trolls coming over and posting in a thread labeled: "HD DVD press confrence [sic] at IFA BOMBS!!!."

A purposefully inflammatory/trolling/inciting thread title. I mean, c'mon! It is hypocrisy. :(

AVS has gone down hill mostly due to the huge influx of new members who don't follow the U/A and act like videogamers on other forums.

The amount of stuff everyday is frankly overwhelming to the relatively few number of moderators on this forum as compared to other forums.

It's not the "HD DVD group" that is discounting the PS3. It's the various statistical counters that are keeping a separate count.

The PS3 happens to be best player that BD has.... the problem is that it is recognized first and foremost as a "game console". Video enthusiasts have no problems with a "game console" in their living rooms. But with Joe public it's a different ballgame. I for example have kids and I have gone to great lengths to see that they have their own game room so the wife and I don't have to deal with the mess in OUR living room (if you have kids then you KNOW where I'm coming from!!) I wouldn't be caught dead in a million years putting a PS3 in my living room! I want a "player", not a "game console".

One other thing to think about... the PS2 is quite capable of playing DVD's, yet it was never considered a dvd player. Playing dvd's on the PS2 has always been, and always will be a secondary issue. I suspect in the grand scheme of things, the same will occur with the PS3.

So the PS3 can only be a game console? And yet this 'game console' that no 'self-respecting videophile such as yourself would put in your living room is annihilating standalone HDDVD players + the 360 addon in both hardware and software sales.

HDDVD players have cost less than1/2 the price of a PS3 since May and yet the sales gap is only further extending in Blu-ray's favor. Perhaps you need to accept the fact that there are very few small minded people such as yourself who will pay for a device that can only play HDDVDs.

PS2 is quite capable of playing DVD's, yet it was never considered a dvd player.

I beg to differ. It most definately is considered a dvd player. I remember on another forum someone said that they never used it to play movies and their friends didn't either. I really can't see that happening. Everyone I know who owned a ps2, it was their sole dvd player. I for one would sometimes go a couple months without putting a game in it but would use it for movies all the time. For much of the time that all it was - a dvd player.

As for the ps3. I bought it for bluray playback. The gaming was secondary.

As for the ps3. I bought it for bluray playback. The gaming was secondary.

PS3 = 100% Blu-ray player. I have no intentions of playing the year old Xbox 360 ports on it. There has been nothing that had come out or has been announced that I have any interest in.

I'll happily enjoy my 360, Wii, DS...etc

1) HDDVD players have been selling at 1/2 the price of the PS3 since fathers day, yet there has been no increase in their software sales

Umm... might want to rethink this one. No increase in sales? You mean the 2:1 hasn't changed? OK, great.

Now tell me... how many PS3s have sold since Father's Day? Answer: A big stinking pile of them, when compared to the number of HD DVD standalones.

Yet, that ratio hasn't changed. How is that good news for the PS3? When you sell a million players during 2007 and don't budge the 2:1 ratio we've seen most of the year, I just can't imagine Sony (or the studios they've partnered with) doing the happy dance.