I am 58 miles from NY AND 59.5 miles from Philly. Is it a waste of time to try to get a signal from an antenna for HDTV? I am signing up with DTV and they give me the NY as my locals. I think they have HDTV for the NY stations. They do not let me get the Philly locals like cable does. Cable gives me both. I guess I would like to put up an antenna to get the Philly signals, and maybe if I can not get the NY stuff in HDTV.

So, do you think I could get a good picture at this range, and what do I need to buy to get it?

THanks,
Roy

If you are at a decent elevation and terrain is not blocking the view towards the Philly or NYC stations, 59 miles is within reach. Typical reception range for stations is out to 60 to 80 miles. You should be looking at a rooftop antenna with a rotator. If you provide your zip code, we can provide some advice on whether it is feasible and what antennas you should be looking at. Currently all the digital stations in NYC and Philly are on UHF. However, in Feb 2009, some stations will be switching to their upper VHF analog channel. WPVI-DT ABC 6 in Philadelphia will be switching it's digital channel to low VHF 6 which is a major consideration in selecting an antenna for reception at 59 miles.

You should enter your address at www.tvfool.com and see what it says for the stations in NYC and Philly.

I am about 54 miles from the digital antenna farm, and get them all rock solid. So, as posted above, you should have no real problems given the proper antenna, preamp, coax, etc.

I am about 54 miles from the digital antenna farm, and get them all rock solid. So, as posted above, you should have no real problems given the proper antenna, preamp, coax, etc.

What is your setup, mgtr?

Thanks!

My elevation is low. Live 2 blocks from the bay. I looked at the tvfool site. Lots of stats that I do not understand. If any one can give me an idea of what they mean please do so. I live in Bayville, NJ 08721. My main goal is to get the Philly stations.

Thanks,
Roy

Goalline-
My setup is unusual, but it works flawlessly. I have a Squareshooter SS1000 (no amp) mounted on the fascia with a further support on the face of the house. It feeds a CM 7777 preamp, driving about 75 feet of RG-6. In my area, NBC-HD is on Channel 11. The SS1000 does great on UHF, but lousy on VHF, so I cut a piece of twinlead about 28" long, attached it to a 30" piece of 1" PVC, attached it to the top of the SS, and fed it to the VHF side of the 7777. It works flawlessly, and is not affected by wind (a concern in Florida).
I used the Squareshooter because it has a high WAF (most people think it is some sort of satellite dish). I don't use the SS2000 (amplified) because I prefer the ChannelMaster. You can read about making a single channel antenna on the antenna sticky.

My elevation is low. Live 2 blocks from the bay. I looked at the tvfool site. Lots of stats that I do not understand. If any one can give me an idea of what they mean please do so. I live in Bayville, NJ 08721. My main goal is to get the Philly stations.
You are in far to deep fringe range from the Philly and NYC stations. If you are that close to the water, then you are looking all the way uphill across NJ, across Philly to the broadcast towers NW of Philadelphia. Challenging, but I looked at the tvfool.com results and the Philadelphia kmz station maps using Google Earth for your zip code. The tvfool results show -90 to -100 dBm for estimated signal strength for a 40' antenna at the center of your zip code. Don't worry about what -100 dBm means except that it should be strong enough to get with a good antenna setup. I get stations down to around a predicted -108 dBm for my location with a CM 4221 and CM 7777 pre-amp in my attic. Your results are better than I would have expected given the range and location, but then southern NJ is flat which helps. The NYC stations are also in the same approx predicted signal strength range. You also have several minor digital stations to the south in Atlantic City and a NJ PBS station further south.

For starters, you need to go with an antenna mounted on the roof with a rotator. The rotator helps tweak the aim as the seasons change without having to climb up to the roof. You may want to get the NYC stations for news and for different sports teams games in HD. All of the digital stations in Philly, NYC, and southern NJ are currently on UHF. This will change in February, 2009 when in Philly: WHYY-DT PBS 12 changes to upper VHF 12 and (biggest headache) WPVI-DT ABC 6 switches to low VHF 6. In NYC, WABC-DT 7 is going to upper VHF 7 along with other stations switching to upper VHF.

At deep fringe range, the best solution is to have two antennas: one optimized for UHF, one for upper VHF or full VHF only. My recommendation is that you get an AntennasDirect 91-XG for UHF, a Channel Master 7777 pre-amp, a rotator, RG-6 co-axial cable, grounding wire, and a sturdy mast. Try to see if you can get all the stations with the 91-XG. If it works, then you can add a full VHF antenna 3' under the 91-XG in 2008. Put up a tall enough mast so you can bolt a VHF antenna (which will be only 3" to 6" high) under the 91-XG later. Here are several VHF only Winegard antennas: http://www.winegard.com/offair/vhf.htm.

The CM 7777 pre-amp has separate switchable inputs for UHF and VHF antennas. One input can be set for UHF/VHF inputs or for UHF amp only. It provides a 23 dB boost and is flexible for using a single UHF/VHF antenna or two antennas. You can order the 91-XG and CM 7777 on-line at dealers such as solidsignal.com and warrenelectronics.com. Lowes usually stocks antenna mounting gear. Check antenna basics and the comparing commercial antennas links along with info on the 91-XG at http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ISSUES/erecting_antenna.html.

Hope this helps!

My elevation is low. Live 2 blocks from the bay. I looked at the tvfool site. Lots of stats that I do not understand. If any one can give me an idea of what they mean please do so. I live in Bayville, NJ 08721. My main goal is to get the Philly stations.

Thanks,
Roy

Hi Roy,
I'm just north of you in Brick. I'm using a channel master 4228 with amp. I'll tell you what I get from Philly with NO problems.
CW57--very stable
KYW3--stable afew drop outs
Depending on the whether there may be a couple more. It was a heck of a lot better when I first installed it back in Jan. of 05.
New York is better for me.

Thanks guys. John, I grew up in Brick. One thing I noticed about Brick vs Bayville is I get the Philly radio stations in in Bayville, but didn't get them in Brick. Hopefully I can get their TV stations a bit better too.

As far as NY, I am not as interested in NY since DTV said NY will be my locals. That is why I am more interested in Philly?

Do you know if the Mets broadcast OTA in HD? I think they are mostly on SNY

MGTR, I have a relatively flat area to Philly, but I doubt it is as flat as Florida. I looked up the square shooter and it did not claim to have a range as far as your 54 miles. Do you think it is because of the very flat land you live around? Do you think it would be too hard for me to use this antenna to pick up the Philly stations at 59 miles away?


Thanks,
Roy

I have a CM 4228 in my attic, no pre-amp. I get DC stations 60 miles away from me perfectly. I have a mountain range in between the stations too. I get between 80-90 signal strength on the DC locals that are -130db on the TVFOOL list. I don't understand what the 80-90 is because signal strength should be and always has been measured in db. Anyway, just goes to show you that you can only use what the websites and what people tell you as a guide. It is trial and error. I'm glad I tried first because some "Expert" on here told me I needed some Wingard antenna that was 14' long, with that CM pre-amp and it needed to be on my roof! That would've cost me way too much. My way, I hung the antenna on a nail and ran the cable to my distribution amplifier in the basement and can watch tv on all 4 TV's in the house.

Deep fringe reception is really weird, especially in the eastern US (out west they're allowed to have bigger towers, which gives more folks Line of Sight reception even at 60 mi).

In some spots in the east, folks get good reception without a prem-amp or an outdoor antenna. In other spots, like where I live, we fight to get stations from 40 mi with a full rig.

In most of the east, at 60 mi, plan on using a bigger antenna, a pre-amp and probably a rotator.

Also, distance isn't everything with reception. A tower can be within your expected receiving range (with a good rig, you are right to expect to receive stations up to 60 mi away) and there will be another quirk, like the transmitter's radiating pattern being pointed away from you. We have a lot of that in western PA, because we have so many nearby DMAs that interfere with each other.