today called with my Japanese friend who works at Toshiba.

i had a long talk with him about the recent developments of Toshiba. not only HD-DVD but also about the new TV they are working on etc.

anyway before you flame me to death that it is not true etc. i dont claim what i put in this thread is true. just see it as a different kind of opinion. normally we get always fed stuff from 1 side on here. the USA part. now we just get an opinion for the Japanese part. i can nowhere compare if what he tells me is true. he ain't at the top of the food chain. he is a manager but not high up. but at least he works in Toshiba in Japan.

below i put just some small quotes of that conversation.

1. can 1st , second, third generation HD-DVd players play tripple layer discs ? ( 45gb / 51gb )

according to my friend, it is not possible.

2. who paid the money for Paramount go exclusive to HD-DVD?

my friend said that the word in the office is that Toshiba made the deal. but how the exact deal is he had no idea.

3. does Toshiba loses money on the cheapest HD-DVD players?

he said yes and it also divides Toshiba in 2 camps. 1 side wants to stop the war. the other side want to continue it.

4. how far is the development on the new TV where you can download and watch high def movies on.

pretty far in development. they will show it next Ceatec show in October in japan. it has like 3 ports. 1 lan port, 1 japanese port, 1 standard tv port.

that japanese port, he explained is a port that only works on japanese tv network. the exact name i forgot.

about the tv. you see a screen. you use the tv remote select the movie in which format you want to watch HD yes or no and download it and watch it. you can also save it on the harddisk in the tv.

before you all go screaming bloody murder. for Toshiba HD-DVd is just 1 step. their main step is towards downloading. specially since in Korea and Japan internet speeds are cheap and fast. 100mbit cost like 30 euro a month. so it makes perfect sense for all the Japanese manufactures to deliver movies by download trough the networks.

anyway that pretty much sums it up. if you guys have some more questions to ask. i could ask him, but don't expect direct answers. i don't talk with this guy regularly. just once or twice a month.

A Chinese 1080i player is more expensive than Toshiba's, that's enough to see the third point...

I'd like to hear from your friend about whether Toshiba really puts HD DVD on all their PCs.

Again, the Venturer HD DVD player is NOT more expensive. It has been refuted over and over - please do a search for it.

At IFA, Toshiba stated they will put HD DVD players in all of the notebooks starting Q4.

1. can 1st , second, third generation HD-DVd players play tripple layer discs ? ( 45gb / 51gb )

according to my friend, it is not possible.



Did he say if playability of triple layer discs is something that can be accomplished with a future firmware upgrade?

You get this and post it second hand from an -- admittedly -- low level manager? Unless he is in R&D (Research and Development) he likely has NO IDEA about any of this.

Not useful. He is either guessing, basing his answers on rumors and office innuendo, or he doesn't know.

1. can 1st , second, third generation HD-DVd players play tripple layer discs ? ( 45gb / 51gb )

according to my friend, it is not possible.
Could you ask if he believes it's intended for data storage only?

A Chinese 1080i player is more expensive than Toshiba's, that's enough to see the third point...

Businesses exist to make profits. If Venturer can manufacture a player with an MSRP of $199, they are making money on it. The reason they're able to might be because 1) Toshiba or the HD DVD PG doesn't collect any licensing or royalties until X number has been sold, 2) they're using much cheaper parts than Toshiba.

today called with my Japanese friend who works at Toshiba.

i had a long talk with him about the recent developments of Toshiba. not only HD-DVD but also about the new TV they are working on etc.

anyway before you flame me to death that it is not true etc. i dont claim what i put in this thread is true. just see it as a different kind of opinion. normally we get always fed stuff from 1 side on here. the USA part. now we just get an opinion for the Japanese part. i can nowhere compare if what he tells me is true. he ain't at the top of the food chain. he is a manager but not high up. but at least he works in Toshiba in Japan.

below i put just some small quotes of that conversation.

1. can 1st , second, third generation HD-DVd players play tripple layer discs ? ( 45gb / 51gb )

according to my friend, it is not possible.

2. who paid the money for Paramount go exclusive to HD-DVD?

my friend said that the word in the office is that Toshiba made the deal. but how the exact deal is he had no idea.

3. does Toshiba loses money on the cheapest HD-DVD players?

he said yes and it also divides Toshiba in 2 camps. 1 side wants to stop the war. the other side want to continue it.

4. how far is the development on the new TV where you can download and watch high def movies on.

pretty far in development. they will show it next Ceatec show in October in japan. it has like 3 ports. 1 lan port, 1 japanese port, 1 standard tv port.

that japanese port, he explained is a port that only works on japanese tv network. the exact name i forgot.

about the tv. you see a screen. you use the tv remote select the movie in which format you want to watch HD yes or no and download it and watch it. you can also save it on the harddisk in the tv.

before you all go screaming bloody murder. for Toshiba HD-DVd is just 1 step. their main step is towards downloading. specially since in Korea and Japan internet speeds are cheap and fast. 100mbit cost like 30 euro a month. so it makes perfect sense for all the Japanese manufactures to deliver movies by download trough the networks.

anyway that pretty much sums it up. if you guys have some more questions to ask. i could ask him, but don't expect direct answers. i don't talk with this guy regularly. just once or twice a month.3. does Toshiba loses money on the cheapest HD-DVD players?

he said yes and it also divides Toshiba in 2 camps. 1 side wants to stop the war. the other side want to continue it.Does your friend have an opinion or whether the "stop the war" camp is beginning to gain any traction or increased influence within the corporation? And thanks for the input. It's always interesting to get office scuttlebutt.

This thread smells like FUD to me.

You get this and post it second hand from an -- admittedly -- low level manager? Unless he is in R&D (Research and Development) he likely has NO IDEA about any of this.

Not useful. He is either guessing, basing his answers on rumors and office innuendo, or he doesn't know.

Yet, we have information from "insiders" accepted without them revealing their sources, either company or position. Double standard.

Does your friend have an opinion or whether the "stop the war" camp is beginning to gain any traction or increased influence within the corporation? And thanks for the input. It's always interesting to get office scuttlebutt.


And now watch this get reported to Blu-Ray and within 2 days you will see announcement on Engadget and Blu-Ray forums as Toshiba is divided and the war is over, it's matter of time when Toshiba will start producing Blu-Ray players.

Please.. I already know this is out..thanks to Blu-tools.

And now watch this get reported to Blu-Ray and within 2 days you will see announcement on Engadget and Blu-Ray forums as Toshiba is divided and the war is over, it's matter of time when Toshiba will start producing Blu-Ray players.

Please.. I already know this is out..thanks to Blu-tools.

Agreed, this thread will probably result in another FUD article by Bill Humiliationt and Scott Hettrick "Toshiba to go Blu-Ray exclusive?" lol

What department/division does your Japanese friend work in may I ask?

Toshiba/HD DVD has made great strides in recent weeks - so all of a sudden they're not united and there is division NOW of all times? Kinda doubt that one...

More times than not, these rumor threads prove to be just that, no matter which side you like and weather the rumors are favorable or negative for it, many of these 'insider' tidbits turn out to be rubbish. Very few guys here have a PROVEN great batting avg for rumors - I'll stick to their hunches, but thanks for sharing.

change a couple of those points and alter them slightly. Toshiba thinks they MAY be able to firmware update for triple layer playback. Toshiba would liek to integrat HD TV to its HD DVD and downloads. Toshiba has a strong conviction and is united in its stance. Toshiba didnt pay PAra/DW, they merely asked nicely and offered a cup of tea and Para/DW obliged. Change these things my frind and you shall be revered here instead of attacked, it will be a much more enjoyable experience for you.

change a couple of those points and alter them slightly. Toshiba thinks they MAY be able to firmware update for triple layer playback. Toshiba would liek to integrat HD TV to its HD DVD and downloads. Toshiba has a strong conviction and is united in its stance. Toshiba didnt pay PAra/DW, they merely asked nicely and offered a cup of tea and Para/DW obliged. Change these things my frind and you shall be revered here instead of attacked, it will be a much more enjoyable experience for you.
Wow, what a stupid post.

change a couple of those points and alter them slightly. Toshiba thinks they MAY be able to firmware update for triple layer playback. Toshiba would liek to integrat HD TV to its HD DVD and downloads. Toshiba has a strong conviction and is united in its stance. Toshiba didnt pay PAra/DW, they merely asked nicely and offered a cup of tea and Para/DW obliged. Change these things my frind and you shall be revered here instead of attacked, it will be a much more enjoyable experience for you.

-1 for a horrible post.

I'm calling BS on this so called "conversation".

OP . . . .

How come you didn't ask your friend about the TL Twin Format HD DVD? They will be discussing it at the end of this month at the European HD DVD PG Conference. It is on the agenda to be updated.

well steve i can take it.

i don't care what people think of me here. for the people who said fud. remember last year when i went to Ceatec show in Japanand came up with lots of info, like tripple layer did not came out last year.

and when i asked a friend of mine in Japan who works at sony if 24p would be possible on the PS3, which he said would happen, which became also true 6 months later.

again i dont talk on regular base with those guys. and we also not always talk electronics too. food is something great too :)

all i give are some answers i got from some questions i asked a friend of mine at toshiba japan. if people can not accept those kind of answers, then why not go to Ceatec show in october in Japan yourselfs and try to get some contacts of your own.

if i know 100% for sure that what he told me was true i would have told you so. fact is i don't . and i like to live by facts. that i why i most of the time try to stay out of the fairy tale threads.

all i did was give you an opinion of someone who works in Toshiba at a mangers position. and since Toshiba is incredible big. what he said could mean nothing, it could also mean a lot of things.

I also asked my friend at sony last week about BD-JAVA 1.1 and BD-LIVE. but i guess people are not intrested to hear about that either :)

I also asked my friend at sony last week about BD-JAVA 1.1 and BD-LIVE. but i guess people are not intrested to hear about that either

Well you have gone this far - might as well go all the way

And what division does your friend work in as a manager at Toshiba?

Depends on what the 'friend' does in Toshiba. I work for a large telecommunications equipment provider and am very familiar with what is going on in development for certain products, and completely clueless on things going on with other parts of the business.

Hell, your 'friend' could work in marketing where they have no actual idea of what is going on with product development.

well steve i can take it.

i don't care what people think of me here. for the people who said fud. remember last year when i went to Ceatec show in Japanand came up with lots of info, like tripple layer did not came out last year.

and when i asked a friend of mine in Japan who works at sony if 24p would be possible on the PS3, which he said would happen, which became also true 6 months later.

again i dont talk on regular base with those guys. and we also not always talk electronics too. food is something great too :)

all i give are some answers i got from some questions i asked a friend of mine at toshiba japan. if people can not accept those kind of answers, then why not go to Ceatec show in october in Japan yourselfs and try to get some contacts of your own.

if i know 100% for sure that what he told me was true i would have told you so. fact is i don't . and i like to live by facts. that i why i most of the time try to stay out of the fairy tale threads.

all i did was give you an opinion of someone who works in Toshiba at a mangers position. and since Toshiba is incredible big. what he said could mean nothing, it could also mean a lot of things.

I also asked my friend at sony last week about BD-JAVA 1.1 and BD-LIVE. but i guess people are not intrested to hear about that either :)

Thanks for your input. Your post has as much credibility as does any insider who doesn't want to name their sources in my opinion. I would be very upset if triple layer comes out and my current HD-A2 would not be updatable in the firmware.. Let us know what your friends have to say about Blu-Ray...

Toshiba/HD DVD has made great strides in recent weeks - so all of a sudden they're not united and there is division NOW of all times? Kinda doubt that one...

More times than not, these rumor threads prove to be just that, no matter which side you like and weather the rumors are favorable or negative for it, many of these 'insider' tidbits turn out to be rubbish. Very few guys here have a PROVEN great batting avg for rumors - I'll stick to their hunches, but thanks for sharing.

I just love how many "insiders" we have in the AVS Forum these days... So far all I have seen is some hopeful fanboys with delusions of grandeur predict this or that with no backing. BeatBoy alone has insiders in every damn company involved in the format war... ;)

I would have a hard time believing that Tosh would consider throwing in the towel.

I also have a hard time believing this manager would know for sure whether these players can play TL disks..

Overall I find it hard to believe your friend would say stuff that contradicts what Tosh has been saying...

Perhaps your next scoop will be how Sony is making money off of each PS3 :)

Anyway, good to know you claim to know someone at Toshiba....I guess your friend too does not believe HD DVD has much of a future and he must be puzzled why Tosh would invest so much in trying to win the war rather than do the natural thing by kow towing to Sony and the BDA. Amazing!

FWIW, Amir said TL would not happen last year and Sony made it clear that the PS3 would do 24 fps. Not sure you scooped these...

What department/division does your Japanese friend work in may I ask?

Cleanning staff;)

I think people are having a hard time since they trash as blu ray not being a final spec that you might have bought a player that might not play a future hd dvd disc?....... the fabled tl 51 continues to live in fairyland with the 200gb BD's

I have no doubt the conversation occurred, as the poster has a history here.

the thing that I find odd is that if toshiba is really divided why would they broker the Para/DW deal and spend more cash?

just seems odd to me

today called with my Japanese friend who works at Toshiba.

i had a long talk with him about the recent developments of Toshiba. not only HD-DVD but also about the new TV they are working on etc.

anyway before you flame me to death that it is not true etc. i dont claim what i put in this thread is true. just see it as a different kind of opinion. normally we get always fed stuff from 1 side on here. the USA part. now we just get an opinion for the Japanese part. i can nowhere compare if what he tells me is true. he ain't at the top of the food chain. he is a manager but not high up. but at least he works in Toshiba in Japan.

below i put just some small quotes of that conversation.

1. can 1st , second, third generation HD-DVd players play tripple layer discs ? ( 45gb / 51gb )

according to my friend, it is not possible.

2. who paid the money for Paramount go exclusive to HD-DVD?

my friend said that the word in the office is that Toshiba made the deal. but how the exact deal is he had no idea.

3. does Toshiba loses money on the cheapest HD-DVD players?

he said yes and it also divides Toshiba in 2 camps. 1 side wants to stop the war. the other side want to continue it.

4. how far is the development on the new TV where you can download and watch high def movies on.

pretty far in development. they will show it next Ceatec show in October in japan. it has like 3 ports. 1 lan port, 1 japanese port, 1 standard tv port.

that japanese port, he explained is a port that only works on japanese tv network. the exact name i forgot.

about the tv. you see a screen. you use the tv remote select the movie in which format you want to watch HD yes or no and download it and watch it. you can also save it on the harddisk in the tv.

before you all go screaming bloody murder. for Toshiba HD-DVd is just 1 step. their main step is towards downloading. specially since in Korea and Japan internet speeds are cheap and fast. 100mbit cost like 30 euro a month. so it makes perfect sense for all the Japanese manufactures to deliver movies by download trough the networks.

anyway that pretty much sums it up. if you guys have some more questions to ask. i could ask him, but don't expect direct answers. i don't talk with this guy regularly. just once or twice a month.

I just talked to a friend too. And he has a friend who's cousin overheard a conversation between 2 brothers who's mother is a cleaning lady at a Sony sales office. And he said that beginning next year Sony is going to discontinue putting BR drives in their soon to be released PS 3.5 gaming machines to compete more directly with the Wii. How do ya like those apples???:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

So I guess we aren't going to hear about the conversation with the Sony friend and the inside info on 1.1 and 2.0 BD Live.

Too bad - they might have been interesting.

Oh - if you are looking for the TL45/51 disc? It's in the storage area where they keep Deep Color.;)

What is wrong with you people? HD DVD or blu-ray will not cure cancer or bring about world peace. They are just pieces of plastic with data on them and each format currently has certain advantages and disadvantages. Some are technical while others are content related but ultimately this format war should not mean a hill of beans in the greater scheme of things in your lives.

Toshiba is a corporation and they are losing money on the sales of the low end players. A simple breakdown of component prices should tell you that pretty quickly even before you add on subsidization and advertising costs. You can put your fingers in your ears and go "la la la la" but facts are facts.

I'm going to log out in a bit and go outside. I suggest everyone else do the same.

I have no doubt the conversation occurred, as the poster has a history here.

the thing that I find odd is that if toshiba is really divided why would they broker the Para/DW deal and spend more cash?

just seems odd to me

I know Paramount was heavily divided internally with regards to the recent HD-DVD decision...it's not too hard to believe that there's some division with regards to the format war at Toshiba either. That surely doesn't mean Toshiba is actually considering throwing in the towel...just that some internal employees don't agree with the strategy. Given the volatility of this whole thing, it's not that shocking a possibility. It doesn't mean anything about Toshiba's direction...just the viewpoint within the company. I mean, is it really realistic to think that everyone who works for Toshiba around the world thinks HD-DVD is a surefire win? I'm sure some don't...I wouldn't read into it more than though. It's believable, but doesn't mean anything in terms of Toshiba's current direction.

What is wrong with you people? HD DVD or blu-ray will not cure cancer or bring about world peace. They are just pieces of plastic with data on them and each format currently has certain advantages and disadvantages. Some are technical while others are content related but ultimately this format war should not mean a hill of beans in the greater scheme of things in your lives.

The PS3 Blu-ray player is supposed to cure cancer actually, through folding.

The PS3 Blu-ray player is supposed to cure cancer actually, through folding.
You are right. I forgot about that. But as much as I prefer Blu-ray, that folding at home is a separate application that people can also run on their PC/Mac.
:)

if i know 100% for sure that what he told me was true i would have told you so. fact is i don't . and i like to live by facts. that i why i most of the time try to stay out of the fairy tale threads.

And yet you decided it was important to post this information. What was your intention?

And did you think claiming someone told you such serious things as a split in Toshiba's office over HD DVD and BD would just go unscrutinized?

For those not familar with the workings of a large company, the staffs are ALWAYS divided over key strategic and tactical decisions. Toshiba, Sony, Universal, Disney, Paramount, Fox, Wal-Mart, etc. etc. are undergoing this all the time.

Whether or not there is division over such matters is not the issue. What matters is if the decision-makers are being swayed. Unless you are a fly on the wall of the meeting rooms where this stuff is discussed by the high level managers, it truly means nothing.

What is wrong with you people? HD DVD or blu-ray will not cure cancer or bring about world peace. They are just pieces of plastic with data on them and each format currently has certain advantages and disadvantages. Some are technical while others are content related but ultimately this format war should not mean a hill of beans in the greater scheme of things in your lives.

Toshiba is a corporation and they are losing money on the sales of the low end players. A simple breakdown of component prices should tell you that pretty quickly even before you add on subsidization and advertising costs. You can put your fingers in your ears and go "la la la la" but facts are facts.

I'm going to log out in a bit and go outside. I suggest everyone else do the same.
....and yet Toshiba just had their best fiscal year posting profits of 1.2 billion $ easily beating sony corp.

I guess that Sony ,after watching the ps3 flopping and BD sales being insignificant (not against HDDVD but in general) will abandon BD and will release a cheap, non-BD, PS3 so that they can regain the videogames' market, the one market that was keeping the company alive for many years.

Unfortunately Jeff, it seems too many people think they know what goes on at these places. Apparently someone in this thread just happens to know what was going on in Paramount's office, and yet I'm sure they don't work there.

Too many fanboys trying to "play" insider.

Too many fanboys trying to "play" insider.

The legitimate insiders know whether what they are hearing matters or doesn't.

That takes business instincts and experience, as well as a firm understanding of the issues at some degree of detail, and being able to sift through useless information versus something that has some meat on it. Very few people have those qualifications. Simply hearing "inside" information does not even come close to making someone an Insider.

If anyone wants to get "inside" information, all you gotta do is go to the parking lot at 5:00 for one of the companies, and catch an employee on their way home. Identify yourself and ask a couple of quick questions. Now mind you, the information is totally worthless, but then you can feel like you're an "Insider", even though you are most assuredly not.

The OP has a good read
:)
Flame him not..

kowhite,

I know Paramount was heavily divided internally with regards to the recent HD-DVD decision...it's not too hard to believe that there's some division with regards to the format war at Toshiba either. That surely doesn't mean Toshiba is actually considering throwing in the towel...just that some internal employees don't agree with the strategy. Given the volatility of this whole thing, it's not that shocking a possibility. It doesn't mean anything about Toshiba's direction...just the viewpoint within the company. I mean, is it really realistic to think that everyone who works for Toshiba around the world thinks HD-DVD is a surefire win? I'm sure some don't...I wouldn't read into it more than though. It's believable, but doesn't mean anything in terms of Toshiba's current direction.

What you say is true. I am sure there is some division at Toshiba, just as there undoubtably is at Sony. However, the OP made it sound as if there was major division in Toshiba regarding HD DVD, and under those circumstances I find it odd that the company would broker a deal like this.

I certainly dont think this is a slam dunk for either side and have repeatedly said this is going to drag on for quite awhile. The only one's who think this is going to end soon are the fanboys.

On the subject of Toshiba, didn't a couple of the key management(CEO) people jump ship to Kenwood a couple of years ago due to the companies new direction that they did not agree with ?

he said yes and it also divides Toshiba in 2 camps. 1 side wants to stop the war. the other side want to continue it.
So the side that wants to stop the war wants to pay Disney and the one that wants to continue prefers waiting until after Christmas for the studios to come over on their own? :)

I don't know if that is conversation with someone that has insight and first hand knowledge about things at Toshiba or not. I do know that it sounds like a reasonable perspective from someone that does. Does anybody doubt Toshiba is losing large sums on the hardware? The HD-A2 and HD-A1 which have accounted for the majority of sales have been sold at a loss, and that sounds unreasonable?

There is nothing about any of it that sounds unreasonable. HD DVD has been a bomb on the marketplace, sales of hardware and software are pathetic and I wish the format would just disappear. What I would like to understand is why is Toshiba still fighting this battle and that conversation doesn't really offer any insight. Survival and a very small marketshare is the best possible outcome and what good can become of it? It is hard to imagine profitability is considered possible at this point and continued losses appear far more likely.

Chris

I don't know if that is conversation with someone that has insight and first hand knowledge about things at Toshiba or not. I do know that it sounds like a reasonable perspective from someone that does. Does anybody doubt Toshiba is losing large sums on the hardware? The HD-A2 and HD-A1 which have accounted for the majority of sales have been sold at a loss, and that sounds unreasonable?

There is nothing about any of it that sounds unreasonable. HD DVD has been a bomb on the marketplace, sales of hardware and software are pathetic and I wish the format would just disappear. What I would like to understand is why is Toshiba still fighting this battle and that conversation doesn't really offer any insight. Survival and a very small marketshare is the best possible outcome and what good can become of it? It is hard to imagine profitability is considered possible at this point and continued losses appear far more likely.

Chris
The ps3, that has accounted for ALL BD sales, has been sold at a loss.The console has flopped so hard that Sony had to lower its price by 100$ only a few months after its launch (something unheard of for the sony of the last decade, just look at the psp for more details).

Blu Ray has been a bomb on the marketplace.Software sales are pathetic, hardware sales of standalone players are non-existent.The format has just lost a major studio which went from neutral to HDDVD -exclusive.Who knows which studio will go next?

Players with final specs are still too far on the horizon and the format after a year is far from complete while the standalone players are still too expensive and way out of reach for the average person.

Sony is not only NOT establishing Blu Ray as the next mass-appeal video format but they are losing the videogames' market in the process, a market that they can't afford to lose.The ps3 is in for the beating of its life starting August NPD.

I wish this format would just die and let the cheaper and spec-ready format be the one that will replace DVD. Sony should just release a non-BD ps3 and try to regain the videogames' market and admit defeat in the format wars.I mean another failed sony format is not big news afterall.

The ps3, that has accounted for ALL BD sales, has been sold at a loss.The console has flopped so hard that Sony had to lower its price by 100$ only a few months after its launch (something unheard of for the sony of the last decade, just look at the psp for more details).

Blu Ray has been a bomb on the marketplace.Software sales are pathetic, hardware sales of standalone players are non-existent.The format has just lost a major studio which went from neutral to HDDVD -exclusive.Who knows which studio will go next?

Players with final specs are still too far on the horizon and the format after a year is far from complete while the standalone players are still too expensive and way out of reach for the average person.

Sony is not only NOT establishing Blu Ray as the next mass-appeal video format but they are losing the videogames' market in the process, a market that they can't afford to lose.The ps3 is in for the beating of its life starting August NPD.

I wish this format would just die and let the cheaper and spec-ready format be the one that will replace DVD. Sony should just release a non-BD ps3 and try to regain the videogames' market and admit defeat in the format wars.I mean another failed sony format is not big news afterall.

Sigh :(

Enough already! I am so sick of this ****!

I don't know if that is conversation with someone that has insight and first hand knowledge about things at Toshiba or not. I do know that it sounds like a reasonable perspective from someone that does. Does anybody doubt Toshiba is losing large sums on the hardware? The HD-A2 and HD-A1 which have accounted for the majority of sales have been sold at a loss, and that sounds unreasonable?

There is nothing about any of it that sounds unreasonable. HD DVD has been a bomb on the marketplace, sales of hardware and software are pathetic and I wish the format would just disappear. What I would like to understand is why is Toshiba still fighting this battle and that conversation doesn't really offer any insight. Survival and a very small marketshare is the best possible outcome and what good can become of it? It is hard to imagine profitability is considered possible at this point and continued losses appear far more likely.

Chris
Did you just wander in from an alternate universe?:confused:

I don't know if that is conversation with someone that has insight and first hand knowledge about things at Toshiba or not. I do know that it sounds like a reasonable perspective from someone that does. Does anybody doubt Toshiba is losing large sums on the hardware? The HD-A2 and HD-A1 which have accounted for the majority of sales have been sold at a loss, and that sounds unreasonable?

There is nothing about any of it that sounds unreasonable. HD DVD has been a bomb on the marketplace, sales of hardware and software are pathetic and I wish the format would just disappear. What I would like to understand is why is Toshiba still fighting this battle and that conversation doesn't really offer any insight. Survival and a very small marketshare is the best possible outcome and what good can become of it? It is hard to imagine profitability is considered possible at this point and continued losses appear far more likely.

Chris

I too am curious about Toshiba's long-term motivation.

Perhaps, they are hoping/looking for BDA to offer them a share of royalties in BD, failing which they will continue to fight the war.

All is fair... So if Toshiba is willing to take losses w little hope of profit, I say soldier on but be aware of the high risk (which I am sure they are). The only thing which I found below-the-belt in this war is Para taking away its movies from BD owners after indicating neutrality.


Personally, I have more than enough BD movies to keep me busy. As and when Bourne and Transformers come to BD, I will pick them up.

Did you just wander in from an alternate universe?:confused:An alternate "universe" that is rational?

An alternate "universe" that is rational?


As RATIONAL as a class action lawsuit?

The ps3, that has accounted for ALL BD sales, has been sold at a loss.The console has flopped so hard that Sony had to lower its price by 100$ only a few months after its launch (something unheard of for the sony of the last decade, just look at the psp for more details).

Blu-Ray has been a bomb on the marketplace.Software sales are pathetic, hardware sales of standalone players are non-existent.The format has just lost a major studio which went from neutral to HDDVD -exclusive.Who knows which studio will go next?

Players with final specs are still too far on the horizon and the format after a year is far from complete while the standalone players are still too expensive and way out of reach for the average person.

Sony is not only NOT establishing Blu Ray as the next mass-appeal video format but they are losing the videogames' market in the process, a market that they can't afford to lose.The ps3 is in for the beating of its life starting August NPD.

I wish this format would just die and let the cheaper and spec-ready format be the one that will replace DVD. Sony should just release a non-BD ps3 and try to regain the videogames' market and admit defeat in the format wars.I mean another failed sony format is not big news afterall.

where do i start?

i think ALL HD disks are doing Ok, but if Blu-ray is doing bad then HD-DVD is even in worse shape. Price is only a short time problem, do you remember what the first LCD TVs cost? if you went by what they cost in the first two years you would have said they were a failure. but in the modern market price comes down fast, could anyone imagine that LCDs would be this cheap 5 years ago?

The player specs are a straw argument, i see some HD-DVD players can not do 1080p does that mean that that they are obsolete?

I have a old non progressive DVD player that has a hard time playing some of the newer disks and can not play any DVD-Rs at all, do i sue Toshiba because there old player can not do what this years models can?

I think Blu-ray Profile 1.0 should stay in the market, there is NOTHING wrong
with these players. they could just be the low end cheap players, just like they are 720p LCD TVs still being sold today.

Profile 1.1 is ok but i do not want to pay extra for it, why? i am not interested in its added features. But some people want interactivity, so it makes sense to add this to the format.I just wish it was optional, but i belive Disney wanted it mandatory.

profile 2.0 is ok too, but i have NO reason to have a Ethernet connection on a player. I do not have a connection in my living room and do not plan to ever add one. I think the VAST majority of consumer will feel the same way. So again a profile 2.0 player is a waste of money for me. I am glad it is not mandatory for all players, but for the very few who want this feature it is nice that it is around.

As for the PS3 i think it would have had a expanded storage even if there was no HD disk war. most of the hardware is close to the xbox so having a hard disk and a bigger Disk for games gives them a advantage long term.

Sales have been ok for the PS3, PS2 sales are still very strong. I firmly believe that Sony did not want to put out the PS3 till PS2 sales started to drop off far more. MS putting out the Xbox360 so early pushed up the PS3 by over a year and made it far more expensive, it was a smart move by MS. But Sony will get its cost down and you will see a much cheap PS3 soon.

Sony putting out a non Blu-ray PS3 is the same as putting out a whole NEW game system. It could not play any of the Ps3 games out now or ones being worked on now. It would KILL the Playstation Brand forever, as software developers would have to design there games to the lowest level of the platform. Non blu-ray PS3 games would look just a little better then the PS2 games and the Xbox360 would beat it hands down.

well you made me make the longest post i have in years!! LOL

The player specs are a straw argument, i see some HD-DVD players can not do 1080p does that mean that that they are obsolete?


Well lets look at it this way. I have a 720p set. I will not benefit from buying a 1080p player over a 720p player at all (solely based on that specific feature). Any HD-DVD I put in the H2-A2 or identical models will work (lets ignore defective discs) and I will be able to access all features on the disc. 1080i vs 1080p only matters to people who have a 1080p set and can differentiate between the 2.


I have a old non progressive DVD player that has a hard time playing some of the newer disks and can not play any DVD-Rs at all, do i sue Toshiba because there old player can not do what this years models can?


If I paid $500+ for that DVD player in the last 6 months, it would infuriate me that I was having these sorts of problems. Odds are you're talking about a 5+ year old DVD player that can be replaced easily with a sub $100 model today (or even sub $50).


I think Blu-ray Profile 1.0 should stay in the market, there is NOTHING wrong
with these players. they could just be the low end cheap players, just like they are 720p LCD TVs still being sold today.


This is a mistake, IMO, a big one and here are several reasons why.

1- Consumers will now have to be aware not only that they have a bluray player but its profile #. If they're buying a movie that has a higher profile number, they need to be aware that features on the disc wont work on their player. Otherwise they're going to be very disappointed. If consumers are "confused" by the format war, what do you think they will think about profiles 1.0, 1.1 and 2.0?
2- Profile 1.0 players would make sense to exist only if they are substantially cheaper than 1.1 or better players. And I dont mean 2.0 and 1.1 players should cost >$600.
3- The big caveat is with the ps3. The ps3 will likely be a 1.1 player and could be a 2.0 player. So these 1.0 players have to be cheaper than whatever price the ps3 is (nevermind other 2.0/1.1 players).
4- By this fragmenting of its market on the hardware side, bluray studios have no incentive to produce 1.1 or 2.0 profile discs if few customers can take advantage of it.

Yet, we have information from "insiders" accepted without them revealing their sources, either company or position. Double standard.

You won't see me accepting information just because someone wrote it. Skepticism is your friend. :D

Did you just wander in from an alternate universe?:confused:

Yes, from outside of AVS. It's called "reality", where made-up pro-HD DVD rumors aren't considered "facts" (like "no one paid Paramount to go exclusive, they just destroyed their already pressed Blades of Glory BDs cause they hate the BDA").

AVS posters are so rabidly pro HD DVD, and in suchgreater percentages than the rest of the world, that there are going to be some hard falls coming up.

today called with my Japanese friend who works at Toshiba.

i had a long talk with him about the recent developments of Toshiba. not only HD-DVD but also about the new TV they are working on etc.

anyway before you flame me to death that it is not true etc. i dont claim what i put in this thread is true. just see it as a different kind of opinion. normally we get always fed stuff from 1 side on here. the USA part. now we just get an opinion for the Japanese part. i can nowhere compare if what he tells me is true. he ain't at the top of the food chain. he is a manager but not high up. but at least he works in Toshiba in Japan.

below i put just some small quotes of that conversation.

1. can 1st , second, third generation HD-DVd players play tripple layer discs ? ( 45gb / 51gb )

according to my friend, it is not possible.

2. who paid the money for Paramount go exclusive to HD-DVD?

my friend said that the word in the office is that Toshiba made the deal. but how the exact deal is he had no idea.

3. does Toshiba loses money on the cheapest HD-DVD players?

he said yes and it also divides Toshiba in 2 camps. 1 side wants to stop the war. the other side want to continue it.

4. how far is the development on the new TV where you can download and watch high def movies on.

pretty far in development. they will show it next Ceatec show in October in japan. it has like 3 ports. 1 lan port, 1 japanese port, 1 standard tv port.

that japanese port, he explained is a port that only works on japanese tv network. the exact name i forgot.

about the tv. you see a screen. you use the tv remote select the movie in which format you want to watch HD yes or no and download it and watch it. you can also save it on the harddisk in the tv.

before you all go screaming bloody murder. for Toshiba HD-DVd is just 1 step. their main step is towards downloading. specially since in Korea and Japan internet speeds are cheap and fast. 100mbit cost like 30 euro a month. so it makes perfect sense for all the Japanese manufactures to deliver movies by download trough the networks.

anyway that pretty much sums it up. if you guys have some more questions to ask. i could ask him, but don't expect direct answers. i don't talk with this guy regularly. just once or twice a month.

Great!!! Now we just found out that there are some who work for a large company that doesn't like where the "higher ups" are going with their decisions!!

And this doesn't happen anywhere else?

News Flash: This happens at all large companies (and many small ones). I'm sure I can find someone in the "new technologies" group at Disney that doesn't care for Blu Ray (in fact I know a few).

I'm going to have an update from my friend who works in Sony, tomorrow. He's just getting me a few more internal documents on their BD 2.0 player coming out in 2009! :p

Seriously, the posts in the last couple of days have reached a high "ridiculous" factor. If D3code, a fairly consistently pro-BD poster, has had a "friend" inside Toshiba all this time, then why have we not heard his sage "inside information" before.

Grain of salt, folks... disinformation campaign perhaps?

I'm going to have an update from my friend who works in Sony, tomorrow. He's just getting me a few more internal documents on their BD 2.0 player coming out in 2009! :p

Seriously, the posts in the last couple of days have reached a high "ridiculous" factor. If D3code, a fairly consistently pro-BD poster, has had a "friend" inside Toshiba all this time, then why have we not heard his sage "inside information" before.

Grain of salt, folks... disinformation campaign perhaps?

Yup, that was the same exact conclusion I came too as I was reading this thread. Seems things have really gotton desperate on the blu side lately.

I have no doubt the conversation occurred, as the poster has a history here.

the thing that I find odd is that if toshiba is really divided why would they broker the Para/DW deal and spend more cash?

just seems odd to me

Probably because some departments/divisions aren't getting the money they want because its going to Paramount or subsidizing the A2 players. If I'm working in the LCD division and we're bringing in lots of profitable revenue, I'd be pissed if I couldn't hire two new engineers because our profits are being used to subsidize another department.

I have been told by some who are calibration techs and knowledgeable sales rep at BB, almost all AV gear within the next couple of years will have ethernet ports.

Why? Two reasons. Downloading is the first and second is networking.

Many OTA towers are being rigged or already have been for the digital transition. When the NTSC bandwidth gets freed up ultra high speed downloading will be done OTA with WiMax.

I love BD but say goodbye to both HD formats and NOT in ten years like many think. 2 years this will begin and 5 years it will be the norm.

The biggest argument people have made about HD high speed downloads not taking place for 10 years is most consumers still don't have broadband ISPs. Well, towers and technology that are already in place will put that the 10 year theory to rest when anyone can download a high Mbps OTA with WiMax.

If they can get it to the theatres they can get it to you with a special box/ethernet connection.

http://www.intel.com/netcomms/technologies/wimax/17914_Sundance_CS_r06.pdf


Look at the last line of the following article:

100 million in the US covered by WiMax in 2008.

Still think it will be BD or HD DVD? Not in five years IMO.

i provide some info for the hobbyists over here. not the extremists.

also Toshiba is a very big company. and Toshiba does a lot of business government related. it is like Mitsubishi company. most people think they only make cars. well in japan there are Mitsubishi banks as well.

and Rjdam. some people dont have the time to post every second of the day. i actually wanted to post something yesterday. but time went fast and had unlike many others, i have a social life as well.

besides what are you doing here? your an extremist. not a hobbyist.

also if you let yourself factor that the few tidbits i provide are groundbreaking or let you hold off buying hd-dvd , then your really stupid.

but I, like many others are thirsty for answers. answers we don't get in the insiders thread. so i go and seek out to get my own answers. and that is what i share.

also i find it hilarious to read that people go on the 1 side is divided and 1 side it not in Toshiba. it is very logical. what do you think happens in sony? that everybody agrees with everybody.

i can tell you that my friend at sony in Japan was laughing his ass of that the USA part of sony encoded the movies in Mpeg-2 instead of AVC or Vc-1. ofcourse it changed overtime. but the encoding was done in the USA and it was not the concern for the Japanese engineers.

also i tell you right now. if you want to have the possibility to go to 1 show. go to CEDIAC in JAPAN. you will see how nice those guys are at Toshiba and sony and all the other manufactures. they take great pride in their products and they love to talk about it.

you know why? because those engineers get paid anyway. they dont care what happens at the end of the day.

maybe it surprises you too, that actually people at sony are also friends with people at Toshiba. i know my friend at Toshiba has long time relationship with some people in sony too. remember the Cell processor of the PS3 which was done by ibm, sony and Toshiba!

about BD-JAVA 1.1. my simple question was to my friend. i asked him when can we expect to have BD-JAVA 1.1 in the PS3. he said they are still working on it , but are behind on schedule.

anyway i will be back a bit later.

I have been told by some who are calibration techs and knowledgeable sales rep at BB, almost all AV gear within the next couple of years will have ethernet ports.

Why? Two reasons. Downloading is the first and second is networking.

Many OTA towers are being rigged or already have been for the digital transition. When the NTSC bandwidth gets freed up ultra high speed downloading will be done OTA with WiMax.

I love BD but say goodbye to both HD formats and NOT in ten years like many think. 2 years this will begin and 5 years it will be the norm.

The biggest argument people have made about HD high speed downloads not taking place for 10 years is most consumers still don't have broadband ISPs. Well, towers and technology that are already in place will put that the 10 year theory to rest when anyone can download a high Mbps OTA with WiMax.

If they can get it to the theatres they can get it to you with a special box/ethernet connection.

http://www.intel.com/netcomms/technologies/wimax/17914_Sundance_CS_r06.pdf


Look at the last line of the following article:

100 million in the US covered by WiMax in 2008.

Still think it will be BD or HD DVD? Not in five years IMO.


That was written in 2005. I have heard of a few places but it does not cover many people.

At WiMax.com forecasts are for 50 million capable devices mostly handheld devices.

Here is a quote from there FAQ section:
"With the advent of IPTV fiber plays are enjoying resurgence. It does not appear that WiMAX or broadband wireless will be ready to deliver IPTV in the immediate future. However, fixed WiMAX may offer the best potential for delivery of this potential content juggernaut. More recently some promising new compression technologies have been announced. These technologies, while still in development, could potentially allow the delivery of true IP-based TV signals, even to cellular type handhelds. One company asserts that it could deliver high definition TV (HDTV) in as little as 2.5 Mbps of bandwidth, with standard resolution signal requiring 1.5 Mbps. These speeds are within the potential reach of WiMAX."
http://www.wimax.com/education/faq/faq07

Also if there is not a direct line of site a Cell (or tower) is needed every 4-5 miles.


Even if they can cover 100 million anytime soon it will most likely be the most populated cities the top 35 make up about 40 million and if the surrounding areas are included its 130 million. http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/most_pop_cities_usa.htm
I and about 200 million other people don't live there and would have to wait till they get to our area which would most likely be much harder to get.

99% of the population has easy access to get one of the formats (if they want it). DVD has been around for 10 years, and 10 years from now something like that may start to be the new format, but not any sooner.

it's matter of time when Toshiba will start producing Blu-Ray players.

no thanks, they can't make a HD DVD player well enough yet ;)

Seriously, the posts in the last couple of days have reached a high "ridiculous" factor. If D3code, a fairly consistently pro-BD poster, has had a "friend" inside Toshiba all this time, then why have we not heard his sage "inside information" before.

Grain of salt, folks... disinformation campaign perhaps?Wow, a charge of "disinformation" coming from you defines the pot calling the kettle black. Your website is nothing but disinformation...

Have you acknowledged yet that Denon has consistently confirmed that their Blu-ray player remains on track for a Fall 2007 release in the US, contrary to your posts all over AVS that it had been delayed until 2008?

i think its only to be expected that toshiba is getting tired of this war, they are losing a ton of money on their players and other expenses.

i think its only to be expected that toshiba is getting tired of this war, they are losing a ton of money on their players and other expenses.

LOL! yup, I'm sure they will roll over now and call it quits just after picking up 2 more studios that are exclusive to them. :rolleyes:

LOL! yup, I'm sure they will roll over now and call it quits just after picking up 2 more studios that are exclusive to them. :rolleyes:

Well, if they had to pay those studios, then they did spend that money. Sony can at least hope that ps3 games sell well enough to make up for the money they lose with every console they sell. I guess that one of the reasons BD standalones are so expensive is because they aren't selling them at loss like the ps3.

Well, if they had to pay those studios, then they did spend that money. Sony can at least hope that ps3 games sell well enough to make up for the money they lose with every console they sell. I guess that one of the reasons BD standalones are so expensive is because they aren't selling them at loss like the ps3.

They aren't selling them period. Putting all your eggs in one basket ( PS3 ) is not good business pratice and they are finding that out now. Toshiba had a plan and it seems to be working hence the reason for the increased interest on the HD DVD side lately.

think its only to be expected that toshiba is getting tired of this war, they are losing a ton of money on their players and other expenses.
__________________
Blu-ray discs - 154
HD-DVD - 0

FACT: 90% of the industry is blu-ray, few are hd-dvd.

FACT: Paramount paid 150m, sabotage by MS.

FACT: consumers have spoken, they chose blu-ray over 2-1.

Is this the new BD "Blankee?"

Is this the new BD "Blankee?"

Many of us have elected not to view signatures because they do nothing but fan the flames of the war. This doesn't help.

The ps3, that has accounted for ALL BD sales, has been sold at a loss.The console has flopped so hard that Sony had to lower its price by 100$ only a few months after its launch (something unheard of for the sony of the last decade, just look at the psp for more details).

Blu Ray has been a bomb on the marketplace.Software sales are pathetic, hardware sales of standalone players are non-existent.The format has just lost a major studio which went from neutral to HDDVD -exclusive.Who knows which studio will go next?

Players with final specs are still too far on the horizon and the format after a year is far from complete while the standalone players are still too expensive and way out of reach for the average person.

Sony is not only NOT establishing Blu Ray as the next mass-appeal video format but they are losing the videogames' market in the process, a market that they can't afford to lose.The ps3 is in for the beating of its life starting August NPD.

I wish this format would just die and let the cheaper and spec-ready format be the one that will replace DVD. Sony should just release a non-BD ps3 and try to regain the videogames' market and admit defeat in the format wars.I mean another failed sony format is not big news afterall.

Sadly, I tend to agree. Sony has to save the PS3 line and reduce cost .... might as well spin it with a DV9 and lower the price to $329.

Right. Obviously Paramount's recent decision to drop Blu-Ray and the imminent arrival of sub-$200 stand-alone HD-DVD players is making Toshiba skittish.

:rolleyes:

Toshiba have already lost the PC market now that Apple, Dell, HP/Compaq, Acer/Gateway and Lenovo all went Blu.

Toshiba have already lost the PC market now that Apple, Dell, HP/Compaq, Acer/Gateway and Lenovo all went Blu.

Apple?

HP supports HD DVD and is neutral
Acer supports HD DVD and is neutral. And Gateway is crap.

Please be accurate.

Apple?

HP supports HD DVD and is neutral
Acer supports HD DVD and is neutral. And Gateway is crap.

Please be accurate.

That's why HP offers Blu-ray as a writer with HD-DVD only available as a ROM version.

Acer just joined the BDA and is changing over to Blu and since they just bought Gateway, guess what gateway is going to be using.

That's why HP offers Blu-ray as a writer with HD-DVD only available as a ROM version.

And I'm sure you're going to explain what that has to do with HP offering HD DVD on their PC's/Laptops.

Acer just joined the BDA and is changing over to Blu and since they just bought Gateway, guess what gateway is going to be using.

Wow. So the fact that Acer is also a member of the HD DVD group seems to slipped you too, huh?

Please provide us all the link that Acer is "changing over" to Blu, and not simply going neutral.

i provide some info for the hobbyists over here. not the extremists...

...and Rjdam...

...besides what are you doing here? your an extremist. not a hobbyist.
Uh... gee... thanks - I never realized that this wasn't my hobby. I guess all the time and money I have been wasting on my home theater all this time was for nothing. Should I have put it into gardening, then?

I what you are saying is that you do not wish any dissenting voice here, then, sorry, no luck.

I think it's convenient that you suddenly have a friend chime in with info that is a bit unbelievable anyway, but suits the current situation.

also Toshiba is a very big company. and Toshiba does a lot of business government related. ..so what?

i have a social life as well.What a coincidence, so do I :p

also if you let yourself factor that the few tidbits i provide are groundbreaking or let you hold off buying hd-dvd , then your really stupid.Was that comment generally addressed to ALL the readers, or just SOME?

...but I, like many others are thirsty for answers. answers we don't get in the insiders thread. so i go and seek out to get [make up] my own answers. and that is what i share....fixed

also i find it hilarious to read that people go on the 1 side is divided and 1 side it not in Toshiba. it is very logical. what do you think happens in sony? that everybody agrees with everybody. ...according to YOU. No one can say that there is not disagreement inside Sony corp, as it is huge. And it's pretty much your "word" that your "friend" SAYS that someone inside Toshiba has reservations. But I think it's a complete red-herring thrown out to start more rumours, which has been a typical hydration strategy over the last several months.

also i tell you right now. if you want to have the possibility to go to 1 show. go to CEDIAC in JAPAN.... maybe it surprises you too, that actually people at sony are also friends with people at Toshiba. i know my friend at Toshiba has long time relationship with some people in sony too.So this is pretty much an admission that you work for Sony - have you declared your status and bias to the mods?

about BD-JAVA 1.1. my simple question was to my friend. i asked him when can we expect to have BD-JAVA 1.1 in the PS3. he said they are still working on it , but are behind on schedule.I think pretty much everyone here knows that already, so it's not a groundbreaking admission at this time.

Wow, a charge of "disinformation" coming from you defines the pot calling the kettle black. Your website is nothing but disinformation...At least I have to back up my theories and statements with links and facts, since I am not "saddled" with "insider" status which somehow negates the need for supporting information... ;)

Have you acknowledged yet that Denon has consistently confirmed that their Blu-ray player remains on track for a Fall 2007 release in the US, contrary to your posts all over AVS that it had been delayed until 2008?

PLEASE do show me where Denon have re-stated their commitment in the last 10 days?

PLEASE show me that press release, I KNOW that I must have missed it somewhere, so since you have stated it as fact, I guess you can back it up with links??

Otherwise, we'll have to take the words of the european manager who seems to think it won't be ready...

And I'm sure you're going to explain what that has to do with HP offering HD DVD on their PC's/Laptops.



Wow. So the fact that Acer is also a member of the HD DVD group seems to slipped you too, huh?

Please provide us all the link that Acer is "changing over" to Blu, and not simply going neutral.


Acer have always been neutral up to this point as they have shipped Blu-ray on some models while shipping HD-DVD on others so I wouldn't call joining BDA going neutral.

Acer have always been neutral up to this point as they have shipped Blu-ray on some models while shipping HD-DVD on others so I wouldn't call joining BDA going neutral.

Sigh. Sometimes it's hard to take some of you guys seriously.

Wow this guy is trying to share some info that he already added a disclaimer to, and certain people just want to tear him apart. Seriously ridiculous, if you don't buy just let it be, no reason to attack the OP...pathetic.

Wow this guy is trying to share some info that he already added a disclaimer to, and certain people just want to tear him apart. Seriously ridiculous, if you don't buy just let it be, no reason to attack the OP...pathetic.

Welcome to AVS 2.0.

This is like Jerry Springer, only it's about gadgets instead of sexual depravity. :rolleyes:

No wonder there are different opinions inside Toshiba since Toshiba is bleading for HDDVD.Sony ,on the other hand, is doing great!!!!

Report: Sony prepares for $3 billion IPO
PlayStation 3 maker to float shares in its insurance division, raising cash for ailing games arm.

By Emma Boyes, GameSpot UK
Posted Sep 4, 2007 6:55 am PT

Electronics giant Sony is set to sell 725,000 shares in an initial public offering of its insurance unit, Tokyo-based Sony Financial Holdings, reports Bloomberg.

The deal is likely to be Japan's biggest IPO this year, and trading will start on the Tokyo Stock Exchange on October 11. The stock is expected to raise approximately 332 billion yen ($2.86 billion) for the electronics manufacturer.

Analysts believe that the funds are likely to be siphoned to the consumer electronics and games divisions of the corporation, to make more Bravia TVs and to offset the losses being incurred by the PlayStation unit--and it may also be a sign that a further PS3 price cut will soon on the cards.

Mitsuhiro Osawa, analyst at Mizuho Investors Securities, said, "Sony could use the funds for various options to strengthen its electronics and game businesses. A cut in the price of the PlayStation 3 is one option." Osawa rates Sony "outperform," meaning that he thinks Sony shares will do better in the near future than the market overall.

Selling your insurance arm.Now that's what i call a healthy company!!!:D:D:D

Welcome to AVS 2.0.

This is like Jerry Springer, only it's about gadgets instead of sexual depravity. :rolleyes:
Judging by the way some of the members around here post lately, those two topics aren't mutually exclusive for them...;)

PLEASE do show me where Denon have re-stated their commitment in the last 10 days?

PLEASE show me that press release, I KNOW that I must have missed it somewhere, so since you have stated it as fact, I guess you can back it up with links??

Otherwise, we'll have to take the words of the european manager who seems to think it won't be ready...

It's delayed in Europe, but not in the US. And Denon Europe is delaying an amp and preamp as well, which have nothing to do with Blu-ray.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11509691&postcount=416

Selling your insurance arm.Now that's what i call a healthy company!!!:D:D:D

Did you even read what you quoted?

Mitsuhiro Osawa, analyst at Mizuho Investors Securities, said, "Sony could use the funds for various options to strengthen its electronics and game businesses. A cut in the price of the PlayStation 3 is one option." Osawa rates Sony "outperform," meaning that he thinks Sony shares will do better in the near future than the market overall.

Yes, they really are quite a healthy company.

Have you acknowledged yet that Denon has consistently confirmed that their Blu-ray player remains on track for a Fall 2007 release in the US, contrary to your posts all over AVS that it had been delayed until 2008?

PLEASE do show me where Denon have re-stated their commitment in the last 10 days?

PLEASE show me that press release, I KNOW that I must have missed it somewhere, so since you have stated it as fact, I guess you can back it up with links??

Otherwise, we'll have to take the words of the european manager who seems to think it won't be ready...

It's delayed in Europe, but not in the US. And Denon Europe is delaying an amp and preamp as well, which have nothing to do with Blu-ray.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11509691&postcount=416
Thanks, David, but with full respect to Dave Vaughn, this is not a "confirmation from Denon". talkstr8t has stated "that Denon has consistently confirmed", which I have seen no evidence of, and I have challenged him to back up his statement with fact - which he is still welcome to do.

I a little sceptical of "statements of fact" from certain quarters these days.

Did you even read what you quoted?



Yes, they really are quite a healthy company.

Yep, Sony is on a tear right now as a whole. While their gaming division is taking a toll, the rest of the company is doing great. Their music/movies, eletronics, and especially LCD TVs are profiting. Yet everyone thinks that they are a one trick pony but that's not the case.

Yep, Sony is on a tear right now as a whole. While their gaming division is taking a toll, the rest of the company is doing great. Their music/movies, eletronics, and especially LCD TVs are profiting. Yet everyone thinks that they are a one trick pony but that's not the case.

And the rest of the company will do what it needs to support the gaming arm. After all, wasn't it the gaming arm that helped support the rest of the company during the last decade or so?

Welcome to AVS 2.0.

This is like Jerry Springer, only it's about gadgets instead of sexual depravity. :rolleyes:

Which is why Jerry Springer still gets better ratings...

Welcome to AVS 2.0.

This is like Jerry Springer, only it's about gadgets instead of sexual depravity. :rolleyes:
Unfortunately, until AVS moderators start running this place with an iron fist, the hecklers, cheap shot artists, and propaganda ministers will continue to run this forum into a cesspool. Civil discourse has been replaced with wisecracks.

Thanks, David, but with full respect to Dave Vaughn, this is not a "confirmation from Denon". talkstr8t has stated "that Denon has consistently confirmed", which I have seen no evidence of, and I have challenged him to back up his statement with fact - which he is still welcome to do.

I a little sceptical of "statements of fact" from certain quarters these days.

From CED yesterday:
"Denon remains on track to ship its DVD-3800BDCI Blu-ray player this fall in the U.S., a spokeswoman told Consumer Electronics Daily Tuesday. Reports of a postponement circulated after Denon U.K. pushed back its launch to next year’s second quarter. The $1,999 player is Denon’s first Blu-ray product, and also scheduled to be the format’s first Profile 1.1 model, with dual video decoders for picture-in-picture playback. That function becomes mandatory in Blu-ray players introduced after Oct. 31. -- SAB"

....and yet Toshiba just had their best fiscal year posting profits of 1.2 billion $ easily beating sony corp.

I guess that Sony ,after watching the ps3 flopping and BD sales being insignificant (not against HDDVD but in general) will abandon BD and will release a cheap, non-BD, PS3 so that they can regain the videogames' market, the one market that was keeping the company alive for many years.

So $1.2B easily beats $1.39B? The video game market has been good to them but keeping them alive?

Income Statement
Revenue (ttm): 73.64B
Revenue Per Share (ttm): 73.51
Qtrly Revenue Growth (yoy): 13.30%
Gross Profit (ttm): 15.86B
EBITDA (ttm): 5.34B
Net Income Avl to Common (ttm): 1.39B
Diluted EPS (ttm): 1.32
Qtrly Earnings Growth (yoy): 105.80%

Link Here http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=SNE

i provide some info for the hobbyists over here. not the extremists.

also Toshiba is a very big company. and Toshiba does a lot of business government related. it is like Mitsubishi company. most people think they only make cars. well in japan there are Mitsubishi banks as well.

and Rjdam. some people dont have the time to post every second of the day. i actually wanted to post something yesterday. but time went fast and had unlike many others, i have a social life as well.

besides what are you doing here? your an extremist. not a hobbyist.

also if you let yourself factor that the few tidbits i provide are groundbreaking or let you hold off buying hd-dvd , then your really stupid.

but I, like many others are thirsty for answers. answers we don't get in the insiders thread. so i go and seek out to get my own answers. and that is what i share.

also i find it hilarious to read that people go on the 1 side is divided and 1 side it not in Toshiba. it is very logical. what do you think happens in sony? that everybody agrees with everybody.

i can tell you that my friend at sony in Japan was laughing his ass of that the USA part of sony encoded the movies in Mpeg-2 instead of AVC or Vc-1. ofcourse it changed overtime. but the encoding was done in the USA and it was not the concern for the Japanese engineers.

also i tell you right now. if you want to have the possibility to go to 1 show. go to CEDIAC in JAPAN. you will see how nice those guys are at Toshiba and sony and all the other manufactures. they take great pride in their products and they love to talk about it.

you know why? because those engineers get paid anyway. they dont care what happens at the end of the day.

maybe it surprises you too, that actually people at sony are also friends with people at Toshiba. i know my friend at Toshiba has long time relationship with some people in sony too. remember the Cell processor of the PS3 which was done by ibm, sony and Toshiba!

about BD-JAVA 1.1. my simple question was to my friend. i asked him when can we expect to have BD-JAVA 1.1 in the PS3. he said they are still working on it , but are behind on schedule.

anyway i will be back a bit later.


Did this go by unnoticed?

today called with my Japanese friend who works at Toshiba.

i had a long talk with him about the recent developments of Toshiba. not only HD-DVD but also about the new TV they are working on etc.

anyway before you flame me to death that it is not true etc. i dont claim what i put in this thread is true. just see it as a different kind of opinion. normally we get always fed stuff from 1 side on here. the USA part. now we just get an opinion for the Japanese part. i can nowhere compare if what he tells me is true. he ain't at the top of the food chain. he is a manager but not high up. but at least he works in Toshiba in Japan.

below i put just some small quotes of that conversation.

1. can 1st , second, third generation HD-DVd players play tripple layer discs ? ( 45gb / 51gb )

according to my friend, it is not possible.

2. who paid the money for Paramount go exclusive to HD-DVD?

my friend said that the word in the office is that Toshiba made the deal. but how the exact deal is he had no idea.

3. does Toshiba loses money on the cheapest HD-DVD players?

he said yes and it also divides Toshiba in 2 camps. 1 side wants to stop the war. the other side want to continue it.

4. how far is the development on the new TV where you can download and watch high def movies on.

pretty far in development. they will show it next Ceatec show in October in japan. it has like 3 ports. 1 lan port, 1 japanese port, 1 standard tv port.

that japanese port, he explained is a port that only works on japanese tv network. the exact name i forgot.

about the tv. you see a screen. you use the tv remote select the movie in which format you want to watch HD yes or no and download it and watch it. you can also save it on the harddisk in the tv.

before you all go screaming bloody murder. for Toshiba HD-DVd is just 1 step. their main step is towards downloading. specially since in Korea and Japan internet speeds are cheap and fast. 100mbit cost like 30 euro a month. so it makes perfect sense for all the Japanese manufactures to deliver movies by download trough the networks.

anyway that pretty much sums it up. if you guys have some more questions to ask. i could ask him, but don't expect direct answers. i don't talk with this guy regularly. just once or twice a month.

Your friend???:D

This is a science forum, not an "he said, she said" rumor mill. Without any links...more BDA FUD spinning.:D