Looking for unbiased dual format owner's for replies.

If a disc is released on both format's (exclude combo's in your decision) which format do you buy, and are you confident.

I use to buy blu until the paramount thing

Now I find myself buying red

Honestly now, I have little confidence in either and am holding back on as many purchases as I can.

I like HD-DVD's features but I would be happy if the war ended now and BR won just so I could buy with more confidence.

How do you guys feel about your investments?

Would you "end the war" now and let your least favorite format win just to get it over with?
I would.

If the releases are equal i buy the blu ray version because the ps3 is a better player than the xbox360 add-on (and these are the only 2 viable ways to enjoy both formats here in Greece unless you want to pay 600 euros for a first gen toshiba player or 700-800 euros for a first gen sony player).

I really feel that no format is a "good" investment currently, no matter what either side believes or tells you. I am especially sick of BDA and Blu-ray fanboys and zealots proclaiming HD-DVD dead. When HDM is 1% of the market, numbers don't mean all too much. Both formats have a lot of maturing and growth to do before these numbers really start meaning something in the big picture. Both formats are going to be around for some time still, anyone who tells your otherwise is only fooling themselves.

I had no intention to get entangled in this format war so soon, I was going to wait it out a little bit longer. However, with the HD-DVD prices dropping and buying a new TV, I couldn't help myself. I have no delusion that HD-DVD is the end all solution for HDM currently. The market is split and for me to enjoy HDM, I feel that becoming format neutral is the only solution to enjoy my movies in HD. I do plan on buying a Blu-ray player, but I just need to see a drastic price drop. Mainly they just need to get around what HD-DVD players are going for right now before I am going to invest in the format. I am actually hoping for more dual format players with in the next year or so, with affordable prices, to make the plunge into format neutral easier. I also need to see Blu-ray at profile 1.1 or possibly 2.0, depending on what I need/want out of the format, before I am going to invest. I think realisticly that profile 1.1 is all I need and we should see it by the time my other criteria is met, but it still bothers me a little that they do not have a finalize spec.

What it really boils down to, like any other format, us early adopters are taking a risk. However, we are needed to pave the way and help the format(s) along the way. I would like to see one format win, just to end all this non-sense, but like I said. It just is not going to happen anytime soon.

I prefer blu-ray; I think it's the better medium; I want blu-ray to win, so I buy only blu-ray. Simple as that for me.

I want TVs to come down in price, so the average consumer will actually give a rip about HD media.

My parents, neighbors, and co-workers couldn't give a care about cheap Venturer HD-DVD players? Why?

Because it costs them over $1,000 to get into a TV good enough to enjoy full use of the HD player.

People in this "war" are fooling themselves if they think the average joe out there will be getting into HD by Christmas. We'll see A SMALL CROWD (sliver) of people getting into this when you consider the over-all consumer pie.

They have to buy the big-azz TVs first, and until they can afford those, the percentages of people buying into this technology will be VERY SMALL.

If Sony or Toshiba want to REALLY bring people into this "war", they need to market a 42" TV that has a built-in player, and is priced at $800 or less. Not gonna happen anytime soon, for obvious reasons.

I want TVs to come down in price, so the average consumer will actually give a rip about HD media.

My parents, neighbors, and co-workers couldn't give a care about cheap Venturer HD-DVD players? Why?

Because it costs them over $1,000 to get into a TV good enough to enjoy full use of the HD player.

People in this "war" are fooling themselves if they think the average joe out there will be getting into HD by Christmas. We'll see A SMALL CROWD (sliver) of people getting into this when you consider the over-all consumer pie.

They have to buy the big-azz TVs first, and until they can afford those, the percentages of people buying into this technology will be VERY SMALL.

If Sony or Toshiba want to REALLY bring people into this "war", they need to market a 42" TV that has a built-in player, and is priced at $800 or less. Not gonna happen anytime soon, for obvious reasons.

I've seen you post this in many threads and I have to disagree with it. I bought a modest 56 incher for $1700 a few months ago and when it came to purchase my HD DVD, price definitely mattered. I got the flagship model of HD DVD for less than the entry level BD player. Many people can spend $250 more to augment their HD purchase, but it's a HELL of a lot harder to justify spending $500+ to get the same thing on another format.

Regardless, there are tens of millions of HDTVs out there just waiting for a player to hook up. It's a no brainer that the cheaper one is more appealing to the masses. Either value conscious people, or people who's wives/husbands would not sign off on a $500 player.

Blu-ray. With millions of Blu-ray capable PS3's, and millions more to come, I can't see how support for the format will be going anyware. Not to mention a 2-1 / 3-1 software lead around the world and complete dominance in Japan. I feel my purchases are completely safe. I'll buy into HD-DVD no sooner than sometime next year as long as things at that time look well for their long term prospects.

I've always have confidence when buying BD discs. With Paramount I now have more confidence in HD DVD. The optimist in me hopes that both will survive and that combo players will be the norm in a year or so. On the other hand, the pessimist wonders if either format will reach critical mass.

I went neutral today. I picked up the Toshiba XA2 for a good price.

It was a long thought out decision as I am not one of those looking for a $100 player before I cross over. I never spent this little on an SD player so I don't get it but that's just me.

In the past year I have moved up to what I consider to be an above average HT set-up but certainly not like many others I read about here.

For me, I will buy Blu-ray first if it's available. I already have about a $1400 investment in Blu software and I have decided this is the path I will continue on. It is already started so it will continue for me.

If it's an HD only release or out first on HD, I will buy HD. I have two nice players in the Sony BDP-S1 and now the Toshiba XA2. I feel I can just now relax and enjoy the movie instead of the software.

Does it suck big time for the consumer? Yes. But I think this might play out for a while and I have the means to pony up for both and if it doesn't work out for one side or the other I will still have the software and a player and one less rack space.

I did make sure I went with one of the 1080p Toshibas as I know I will get the bug to upgrade my Pioneer PDP to a larger than 50 inch 1080p version some day so at least I am a little future proof.

Will either of these players be my last, heck no but I think they each will be able to hang tough for at least a couple of years to see what happens. If one side does finally fail, I will probably invest in the best available player for that format at that time (hopefully discounted) and move on.

So yes I am picking blu first when available and if not HD. I will not miss any release and I enjoy my HT too much to play this game. I will not just pick disks at random though..blu first for me.

By the way I love Concerts and there are a few that were on HD but not Blu like Heart and the Eagles. I need a dual format just to support this first true love of mine.

Rick

I buy the format with more/better features. Example: 300 on HD DVD. I actually like the combos, for a few bucks more, I can play the disc in any SD DVD player I own in other rooms or in the car.

Regarding investment, I feel fine. If HD DVD dies, I can still play all my HD DVDs and have a good upconverting player. If Blu-ray dies, I can either keep my PS3 and continue to watch my Blu-ray movies or sell my movies and the PS3, after all, I hear the PS3 can play games as well. ;)

I asked my cousin this same question. He bought the HD-XA1 when it came out and the PS3 (60GB) when it came out. He has a 720p projector and 120" screen.

His response was that he buys HD DVD when they are available on both. When I asked why, it was for the following reasons:

1) Easier to control playback with the XA1 vs. the PS3 (don't have to grab another remote - controlled all through the Harmony 880)

2) XA1 is a lot quieter when playing back movies vs the PS3 (He actually had to move it outside the rack (with good ventilation) to prevent it from getting too hot.

3) HD DVD has better special features

His PS3 is basically relegated to gaming duty and the occasional BD movie that isn't available on HD DVD.

After listening to his PS3 scream (fan noise) during a movie (really bad during quiet scenes) along with the fact there is no IR control swayed me to buy my HD DVD player in March 2007. I am
waiting for a similarly priced BD player before going neutral.

As far as an "investment" I think you are looking at it the wrong way. These units and movies will do nothing but lose value. Unless in 50 years your player is an antique that has value....neither format is an investment...more like a hobby, and most haven't got rich off of a hobby (turning a hobby into a business, maybe)

I bought a dual format player to cover the bases when the picture was less clear. The picture started to clear up decidedly in Blu-Ray's favor the past six (6) months, with HD DVD getting back a tiny bit of momentum with the Paramount defection. I still expect Blu-ray has the edge until the sales figures tell me otherwise. Blu-ray's also the better format if all you are interested in is movies with good picture/sound quality.

The Paramount development means I'm just a tad more comfortable considering an HD DVD purchase. I'll stick pick the Blu-ray version over the HD DVD version on dual format releases, everything else being equal.

I want TVs to come down in price, so the average consumer will actually give a rip about HD media.

My parents, neighbors, and co-workers couldn't give a care about cheap Venturer HD-DVD players? Why?

Because it costs them over $1,000 to get into a TV good enough to enjoy full use of the HD player.

People in this "war" are fooling themselves if they think the average joe out there will be getting into HD by Christmas. We'll see A SMALL CROWD (sliver) of people getting into this when you consider the over-all consumer pie.

They have to buy the big-azz TVs first, and until they can afford those, the percentages of people buying into this technology will be VERY SMALL.

If Sony or Toshiba want to REALLY bring people into this "war", they need to market a 42" TV that has a built-in player, and is priced at $800 or less. Not gonna happen anytime soon, for obvious reasons.


While I totally agree with your last paragraph (and why either hasn't thought of this yet is beyond me), I disagree very much with everything else.


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=pcat17080&type=page&qp=crootcategoryid%23%23-1%23%23-1~~q70726f63657373696e6774696d653a3e313930302d30312d3031~~ca bcat0100000%23%230%23%23wv~~cabcat0101000%23%230%23%236e~~nf 519%7C%7C24373530202d20243939392e3939&list=y&nrp=15&sc=TVVideoSP&sp=%2Bbrand+skuid&usc=abcat0100000

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=538390&fromPageCatId=548995&catNavId=3996

There are a number of sub-$1000 TV's out there to choose from. Many of them the same off-brands as the Venturer player. In some cases $1,000 could get you both the TV AND the HD DVD player.

If you have to have a 60-65" TV, then yeah you're still talking a lot of money. But please, if you're in the market for a $2,500 TV, then a $150-$200 HD DVD player shouldn't be as much a concern as a $500-$1000 BD or Dual Format player.


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Now, to answer the OP's question, it's very simple for me. I was able to get into HD DVD at $200 because I already owned the Xbox 360. And before anyone get's the fingers ready, spare me the "but the cost of the Xbox 360 was...." arguement. Doesn't work that way. So for me, it was very inexpensive to get into the format. Currently there is no BD player that comes into my available price point, and it doesn't look like it's happening for a while. So until that happens I am HD DVD exclusive. When the price is right, I'll buy a Blu-ray player and be neutral. Until then I have no problem downloading non HD DVD studio movies on my Xbox 360.

Blu-ray's also the better format if all you are interested in is movies with good picture/sound quality.

I don't understand that statement...when many times people here (and many professionals) have stated that PQ is identical (I.e. studios that release both formats).

What makes you think that the AQ/PQ of one is so much greater than the other that an average person when seeing / hearing one format after the other using the same titles would pick BD each and every time.

I have not yet been faced with the decision between the same title on HD or BD. The BD player (PS3) is a pain as it does not integrate with my Harmony so HD is not only my emotional choice but my practical one. I am also big on the extras.. BD currently has a pretty hokey interface for that stuff. Oh and the PS3 makes a lot of heat and is noisy.

Having said what my preference is, I would only be willing to pay a couple of dollars more for HD DVD. Combos work fine I just don't want to pay a premium for them.

I want TVs to come down in price, so the average consumer will actually give a rip about HD media.

My parents, neighbors, and co-workers couldn't give a care about cheap Venturer HD-DVD players? Why?

Because it costs them over $1,000 to get into a TV good enough to enjoy full use of the HD player.

People in this "war" are fooling themselves if they think the average joe out there will be getting into HD by Christmas. We'll see A SMALL CROWD (sliver) of people getting into this when you consider the over-all consumer pie.

They have to buy the big-azz TVs first, and until they can afford those, the percentages of people buying into this technology will be VERY SMALL.

If Sony or Toshiba want to REALLY bring people into this "war", they need to market a 42" TV that has a built-in player, and is priced at $800 or less. Not gonna happen anytime soon, for obvious reasons.

720p sets are good enough for most folks and 42" 720p sets are already well under $1000. Built-in player? Who looks for TV's with built-in players? I don't think that's a high demand feature. :confused:

I am looking for a 32" LCD with a built in SD DVD player to use in the bedroom, but other than that type of use, I don't think many will look for it.

With that logic, there should be many TV's with built in DVD Recorders, but I haven't seen one yet.

I don't understand that statement...when many times people here (and many professionals) have stated that PQ is identical (I.e. studios that release both formats).

What makes you think that the AQ/PQ of one is so much greater than the other that an average person when seeing / hearing one format after the other using the same titles would pick BD each and every time.

PQ is identical with both formats because the vast majority of video encodes are the same with both formats (re: neutral studios typically don't want to spend the money to develop more than one encode which means either or both formats get the shaft when the encodes are for the least common denominator). When the encodes are different, you will get different results (I.e. "Flags of Our Father"). It would be very interesting to see how "King Kong" would have turned out on a 50G disk with 40 Mbps available for the video encode. It almost certainly would have included a lossless audio track.

Blu-ray has the preponderance of lossless audio tracks which gives them the edge for SQ. Anyone with a decent system ought to be able to hear the difference between muddy lossy audio tracks and crystal clear lossless tracks. Anyone who is serious about their home theater sound should want their HD movies with lossless audio tracks. Maybe your average Joe may not care but I suspect most of the posters and this forum should care.

When HDDVD is dead, my 360 can still play games and DVD's (though it's not very good at that IMO). My PS3 would similarly be just as useful, as well as an HDMI upconverting DVD player, though the odds of a Blu-ray death are nil.

When HDDVD is dead, my 360 can still play games and DVD's (though it's not very good at that IMO). My PS3 would similarly be just as useful, as well as an HDMI upconverting DVD player, though the odds of a Blu-ray death are nil.

That's a pretty bold statement don't you think? I mean in my eyes, everything is dead even and your PS3 hasn't been the spearhead that Sony promised.

Expected though, after all it seems you are a PS3 fan. Some advice, I wouldn't be tooting that horn much... ;)

Easy. For day and date releases I always go with Blu-Ray (since we are really talking about Warner) because I am not a big fan of HD DVD combos. I have had multiple issues with them and have a lower confidence versus Blu-Ray discs (plus they cost more). Catalog releases from Warner are usually identical for both formats (price, features, etc), but I usually pickup the BD version.

I mean in my eyes, everything is dead even and your PS3 hasn't been the spearhead that Sony promised.

Too bad Nielsen Videoscan and all indications of software sales doesn't match your eyes. ;)

As far as the "spearhead," i remember HDDVD having a lead in software sales before the PS3 came out. And not once since. :shrug:

My advice, such as it is, is to invest in the game consoles (both of them) since they have other obvious applications. The PS3 is indeed a great machine and probably second possibly only to my Denon behind the Display.

Too bad Nielsen Videoscan and all indications of software sales doesn't match your eyes. ;)

As far as the "spearhead," i remember HDDVD having a lead in software sales before the PS3 came out. And not once since. :shrug:

My advice, such as it is, is to invest in the game consoles (both of them) since they have other obvious applications. The PS3 is indeed a great machine and probably second possibly only to my Denon behind the Display.

Before you start assuming, I'm a big gamer and a huge movie fan, likewise I am neutral on the format. I was once 100% pro PS3 and 100% pro BD. I don't own a PS3 (yet, current 360 / Wii / PS2 / PC owner for gaming, PS3 will add to that AND for BD, HD-A2 owner right now and loving it ;)). I have been following both sides of the pitch (gaming & HDM) and honestly, PS3 is NOT doing a great job at what it was supposed to do (both in the gaming world and in the HDM realm). I will agree that it did take a lot of momentum from the HD DVD camp but look at the numbers you mentioned, roughly 10 times the players and only 1.5 times the movie sales in the US. That to me is even in software sales (we are talking about roughly 5% total movie sales afterall) with a larger player base (which I don't find anything about that to be proud of.)

Not knocking the PS3 though, I do want one but not yet. In my eyes for the general public, it still is too expensive. I'm waiting for the must own games that lead me to swipe the credit card for one. Any other BD player isn't really worth it for me. Besides, I'm holding out for finished BD specs even though PS3 is expected to 'adopt and expand' over any other player... The BD movies will still be there for me to buy, but why get something now that isn't ready and will only be 'good' a few years from now?

Whichever has the better specs (typically the deciding factor is lossless audio) and if all else being equal then it's whether blue or red goes better with the cover art :)

Well, after consideration, this war will go on for years. Millions of both discs will be in circulation. Even if they do away with one format(win, win if you ask me, features of each offset each other IMO. I wish they could magically merge. ie: scratch resistant combo's that hold 50GB on the HD side. THAT ALWAYS WORK:() I believe combo player will be priced to buy and made in all levels of quality by that time. Any component manufacturer will not want to exclude millions of people if the price of manufac is reasonable, and since they use the same laser, it should be by then.

I want TVs to come down in price, so the average consumer will actually give a rip about HD media.

My parents, neighbors, and co-workers couldn't give a care about cheap Venturer HD-DVD players? Why?

Because it costs them over $1,000 to get into a TV good enough to enjoy full use of the HD player.

People in this "war" are fooling themselves if they think the average joe out there will be getting into HD by Christmas. We'll see A SMALL CROWD (sliver) of people getting into this when you consider the over-all consumer pie.

They have to buy the big-azz TVs first, and until they can afford those, the percentages of people buying into this technology will be VERY SMALL.

If Sony or Toshiba want to REALLY bring people into this "war", they need to market a 42" TV that has a built-in player, and is priced at $800 or less. Not gonna happen anytime soon, for obvious reasons.

They will be cheaper then you think this Holiday season. HD TV sets from 32"-42" will priced from $299-$699

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/08/24/expect-699-42-inch-lcds-this-holiday-season/

I generally get Blu-Ray, but only because I use my PS3 a fair bit anyway for games and music.

Not to offend the better off people who give great input on this forum.
But I would bet that the majority of the people who post here now a days are people with 720p/1080i low brand LCD's, any many of the people who can afford the nicer equipment almost insult/dismiss any comment from a user who doesn't have I 50"1080p major brand or a projector(I REALLY want one but when i posted a "noob-help" thread in the projector area no one offered any advice:(). These sets get an undo bad rap here.

People with budget home theaters arise with pride!:)

When you visit your local CC, CompUSA, BB, Frys, Kmart, Radio Shack, Sears, Sams, Target, Walmart, etc how many CRT (non HD) TVs are on display waiting to be sold? Sure, the AJ may not be "looking" for a new TV however, when AJ looks at the TV of his local store he will see a common trend. A trend that regular TVs are hard to find. Even if AJ doesn't like HDTV because they cost to much or simply prefer what they already have, they have to pause and take grasp of the "winds of change". Be it arrogant or not, it is what it is, progression. These AJs are simply not "early adapters" better yet some can be "won't buy until I necessarily have to". But be that as it may before they actually buy they have some level of awareness of what to expect.

Now having said that, this only opens the door for Hi-Definition market for them as new customers. Sure they maybe hesitant at first but eventually once they see one of their own favorite movies in HD they will take a second glance, even for a second. And, in the end will eventually make a decision on a HD purchase that day or some future date.

"my 2 coppers worth right there"

They have to buy the big-azz TVs first, and until they can afford those, the percentages of people buying into this technology will be VERY SMALL.You don't need a huge TV to realize a huge difference in picture quality; there are plenty of inexpensive sets which will benefit immensely from HD-DVD. (For example, my relative's $500 Viewsonic 32-inch LCD.)

Both formats are exactly equal in my opinion (as far as how good the disc will look, be authored, etc).

That said, I do find myself starting to rent more and be obsessed with buying less and less. However, I think that only has a little to do with the war and uncertainty - for me, it has more to do with getting older/wanting to save money/being interested in other hobbies.

Would you "end the war" now and let your least favorite format win just to get it over with?
I would.

YES. Ultimately the few people who care about technical nuances between the two formats (most AVS members) really won't matter at all. I believe more than titles will be price that determines the true "winner". American consumer's don't fully understand the technology they are buying. They do COMPLETELY understand the price they are buying it at. Your average Joe will look at HD-DVD players and say this is cheaper and looks pretty good, I'll take one. The highest priced player may go the way of the Beta-max

Plus I totally disagree with the nobody can afford a 1000 TV to care. Have you seen who's buying some of these TV's these days? Its the mechanic making 14/hour who saves up for ONE big purchase a year. He buys the TV for his little apartment to watch nfl and play xbox/ps3. I'd love to see BB demographics on sets >40"...

I agree that both formats are fairly equal and I would prefer one or the other winning over having two formats. My two machines are unfortunately not equal as I really hate how long my HD-A1 takes to load, and the lack of wifi means that I'm still using firmware 2.0 although it isn't as noisy as my PS3. I tend to buy titles that exist on both formats on Blu-ray because of this and the fact that I hate combos, especially when they cost more.

My next player most likely will be a HD-DVD upgrade when all the DTS HD-MA lossless nonsense is worked out. At this point I hope that player will be faster, less buggy and quieter than my PS3 so I will be slightly favoring HD-DVD until I buy my next BD player which might not be for a few years since the PS3 seems to work very well.

YES. Ultimately the few people who care about technical nuances between the two formats (most AVS members) really won't matter at all. I believe more than titles will be price that determines the true "winner". American consumer's don't fully understand the technology they are buying. They do COMPLETELY understand the price they are buying it at. Your average Joe will look at HD-DVD players and say this is cheaper and looks pretty good, I'll take one. The highest priced player may go the way of the Beta-max

Plus I totally disagree with the nobody can afford a 1000 TV to care. Have you seen who's buying some of these TV's these days? Its the mechanic making 14/hour who saves up for ONE big purchase a year. He buys the TV for his little apartment to watch nfl and play xbox/ps3. I'd love to see BB demographics on sets >40"...

1k purchase isn't that big for someone making 14/hour. Heck throw in a weekend or two of over time and thats most likely one pay check . So if they save for amonth or two thats nothing

1k purchase isn't that big for someone making 14/hour. Heck throw in a weekend or two of over time and thats most likely one pay check . So if they save for amonth or two thats nothing

Where I live you can't hardly pay the rent and bills on $14/hr let alone save for anything other then necessities.

Yea, someone making $14/hr and paying rent, utilities, etc. would be pushing to pay cash for a 1K purchase.

Baccusboy,

Do you get tired of posting the same thing over and over?

Where I live you can't hardly pay the rent and bills on $14/hr let alone save for anything other then necessities.

Where I live, it's hard to pay the rent and bills on $30/hr, and I live in the Boston area. Double that for New York City!

I'm in bergen county new jersey and I make something like 18/ hour and I can afford a 1k tv .

I bought an HD-A1 in 04/06. 2 months ago I bought a blu-ray player because I didn't see an end in sight and wanted HD content from all studios.

I slightly regret my decision. While blu-ray has an equal number of titles released, the majority of them are not to my taste. On top of that, blu-ray hardware is not yet at an acceptable state.

However, to answer your question, I'm confident that both are going to be here for the long haul, though I think blu-ray will eventually go the UMD route.

I agree with some earlier poster that this is not an investment. That said, being a self-proclaimed COB, I hope that HD-DVD wins. Nothing to do with Movies, but I love the idea of recording HD Video on DVD. 20-40 minutes (I heard) is more than enough for a sitting of memorabilia and you can make many copies without worrying about the cost. Think about a group camping, a soccer match, etc. Prices of HD cams are dropping to an affordable level for the J6P geek like me, it would be a shame if I (and others) cannot join the party due to prohibitive PC hardware/software and medium cost.