I've been thinking about this "format war" for the last couple of weeks and I'm thinking that the reason why things have gotten so nasty in these forums is because of the collectors. By "collectors" I'm talking about people who like to collect discs.

I used to be a collector. I once owned a laserdisc player and bought lots of discs at $35 or more each. I didn't have a choice except to buy them, as none of my local rental stores stocked them. When DVDs came out, I knew the laserdisc was dead and quickly sold my player and collection for a fraction of what I paid for them. I didn't regret the laserdisc experience which offered superior video and sound over the VHS alternative, but I also knew that most of the discs I bought I only watched once or twice. When DVDs came out, I still didn't have much choice but to be a collector again (local rental shops were slow to stock their shelves with them and Netflix hadn't been born yet), but I tried to be a little more selective about what I bought, and once DVD rentals were commonplace I found myself buying far fewer discs. I could probably count on one hand the number of DVDs I bought in the last year, and most of them were probably previously viewed discs bought at a Blockbuster B&M, which probably only cost me about $7 each.

While I was an early adopter of DVD, I jumped into the high-def disc world just a couple of months ago, for various reasons that I'd consider to be unique to my situation (I went with a Toshiba HD-D2 player recently because I needed a player with an HDMI output to plug into a recent plasma purchase. At the time, I figured that I could either buy a cheapo upconverting player with potentially worse PQ than my older highly-rated DVD player, an OPPO player, or for a few dollars more the Toshiba HD-D2). Thanks to the wonders of Netflix and Blockbuster Online, there's really no reason for me to have to buy movies anymore. I'm perfectly happy with renting them.

I think much of the animosity in these forums is a result of collectors who have either already bought a number of discs in one format or who want to jump in head-first but don't know which way to go, worrying that the discs they buy today may be for the losing format. IMO, most of these concerns are eliminated if/when you resolve to simply rent the discs instead of buying them. Under that scenario, if you buy a low-cost HD DVD player ($250 or less) and HD DVD loses, you still have a very good upconverting player. You wouldn't have bought any HD DVDs, so there's no money lost/wasted there. If you buy a PS3 and Blu-ray loses, you still have a good upconverting player and a very good game machine (which, if you're not into games, could probably be resold for a $100 loss). If you really want all your movies in high-def, you buy both. The Blu-ray camp seemed to think their format was on the verge of winning recently, so for them it only means an extra $200-250 investment (or, if you hold out till the holidays, even less).

Thoughts?

I like buying movies, and wouldn't be happy if that's all I allowed myself to do.

I rent. Very few movies are worth watching more than once or twice. If the movie is very good and I can see myself watching it more than two or three more times I'll buy it.

The bigger question is how many movies are worth buying *twice*. Since I have bought the DVDs for the movies I have really enjoyed, how many of those would I be willing to buy again in one of these new formats?

Very very very few.

I rent. Very few movies are worth watching more than once or twice. If the movie is very good and I can see myself watching it more than two or three more times I'll buy it.

The bigger question is how many movies are worth buying *twice*. Since I have bought the DVDs for the movies I have really enjoyed, how many of those would I be willing to buy again in one of these new formats?

Very very very few.

I'm in the same boat as you. Its Netflix(thank god for it) for me. I hardly ever watch the same movie twice. There is only a FEW select movies that I can watch over and over again, and would like to own.

Its very hard for me to enjoy the same movie twice. The movie has to be very very good.

I collect (actually I buy both colors, though I want to stick with one).

The primary reason I want a unified format is that I figured the best way to get Aliens, StarWars, LotR and other major items on my "want list" released is to have only one alternative on HDM, that way, Lucas, Spielberg and others would have no more excuse to drag their heels and say the usual "waiting for mass market to adopt first" as a way to defllect attention from their need to earn lots of money for any amount of work they put in. One less reason, one less excuse and maybe it's enough to wake up these old masters from their slumber and get on the job. Pronto!

Otoh, once in a while, I see more items on my list released, and the knowledge of seeing them have a street date is always a rush.

Today, SW,Aliens, LotR still have no Street Date, so the powers who can make these disks come out, please do your best. TIA.

I never rent. Last time I rented a disk was 7 years ago and it was a bad experience at BB.

I like to collect movies. I rarely go to the theaters and I mostly watch news, documentaries, history, and some other "learning" stuff on cable TV. When I buy movies, I don't watch them right away. I watch movies when I'm in the mood.

I collect.

I *TRY* not to replace too many discs, but I end up finding deals I can't pass up :(

I RENT...as others have stated very few movies are worth watching twice....IN FACT if they ever figure out the bandwidth issues I would gladly (and rather) download HIGH QUALITY HD material and delete when done....even better than BB online and Netflix.....

Buying IMO is a wast of money....(my money) you can spend yours anyway you want :-)

IF either one of these formats is going to last the long run, it will be because of collectors and such. Simply put, if no one purchases the software the formats will probably get canned.. Its already been stated hundreds of times, CE mfgs loose $$ on the players, its the discs sales that will decide the outcome of this war, renting wont help our cause. Im not suggesting everyone runs out and spends $$ they dont have I enjoy my movie collection and often watch movies many many times..

I used to collect. I ended up with too many discs I watched once if ever, so now I am more selective. Although I'm sure I'd buy more HD discs than I do if there was no format war.

I like to buy. But I only buy movies I know I will watch more then once. So most of the time I do rent first. But I really like to watch movies so for me there are more that I like to watch more then once then most people I'd imagine.

I think the OP is right. People who have bought 200 movies are likely to get very upset if their format seems like it might die off, even though the discs will still play.

I'd do nothing but rent hidef if I lived in America.

What I do is buy-and-resell a lot.

All the movies are worth buying twice since I will rarely watch a DVD any more. I'm going to trash or trade in my DVDs by the end of the year. If I can't trade them then 600+ DVDS will go in the trash. Just like I did with my VHS tapes in 2000, my audio tapes in the mid 90's and my records in the mid 80's

renting is a waste of money IMO, you have nothing to show for your money afterwards. Renting is great for people who just wanna burn through as many movies as possible (same with downloading, whether that be legal or not), but people like me who like to OWN things, collect, view the pieces of art as a full package (that includes cover art, extras, special features multiple discs filled with tons of stuff as well as the collectability fact) and enjoy that for years to come. I'm sorry I've seen too many discs go out of print or become very hard to find and when I want to watch a movie I want to watch it then, not wait 3 days to order a disc have it shipped and then have to ship it back so that I can get my next disc otherwise I would be wasting my monthly fee. Sheesh, I'm still looking for a copy of Jurassic part 1 and 2 with the DTS audio track. You think any of the rental places have them???? or course not. If you want to just chew through as many movies as possible then renting is great. To those of us who actually view movies as a piece of art renting makes no sense unless you're using the rental model to do a "taste test" to see if you will like a movie.

I pretty much rent across the board. When I first had HD DVD then when I switched over to Blu-ray I continue to the same. The only movies I really purchased were D-Theater tapes, which you couldn’t rent (outside of an online attempt or two towards the end), and I sold all of them off before they stopped producing new movies.

The only movies I purchase over renting are basically ones I feel worth rewarding. Not so I can watch them over and over rather I like them enough that I feel good throwing a few bucks their way.

renting is a waste of money IMO, you have nothing to show for your money afterwards.I guess that means going to a movie theater is a waste of money?

I guess that means going to a movie theater is a waste of money?

yup, if I can't own it I don't go. the only movie I went to go see in the theater for years was Transformers and that was because I was treated by a friend for the ticket. besides, my home theater beats the tar out of any commercial theater here in Tucson.

Great idea. If we all rent and HDM flops, we'll have a unified format - DVD!!! Thread contains too much genius; logic circuit overload...

I don't consider renting to be an option. B&M rental stores don't offer the selection, and online rental services don't offer the timing.

I guess that means going to a movie theater is a waste of money?

Man....sometimes it is. Boy, have I seen some DOGS lately. But, I think "renters" and "collectors" can get along in today's society without starting yet another war.:p:p:p
BTW for the OP, I think blaming "collectors" for the trash talk that's been going on lately in these forums is way off base. If I were to assign blame it would be directed at the PS3 Blu-ray boys. After all...they spent the most money on their toys and have much more to lose than the economy minded HD-DVD people. Just my 2cents.:D:D:D

Most movies I view are for casual viewing only. No way would I spend the purchase price for them.

Buying becomes a constant churn of formats. VHS, Laserdisc, DVD, now HD DVD or Blu Ray. In another couple of years it will likely be memory cards or flash drives.

Too often either the content of a film is weak, or, the tranfer sucks.

I can count the # of titles in both Blu Ray and HD DVD that I would actually want to own on one hand. Most of these I already own on DVD.

Thoughts?People need something to get worked up over, and Blu-Ray versus HD-DVD is as good a reason as any.

Deja vu... Divx versus DVD. Anyone ready for a tongue-in-cheek site called "The Blu-RayLover?"

I agree with the "rent-over-buy" sentiment; it's an excellent way to support the growth of HDM while avoiding the expense of inflated early adopter prices.

renting is a waste of money IMO, you have nothing to show for your money afterwards. Renting is great for people who just wanna burn through as many movies as possible (same with downloading, whether that be legal or not), but people like me who like to OWN things, collect, view the pieces of art as a full package (that includes cover art, extras, special features multiple discs filled with tons of stuff as well as the collectability fact) and enjoy that for years to come....

To those of us who actually view movies as a piece of art renting makes no sense unless you're using the rental model to do a "taste test" to see if you will like a movie.To me, buying a movie without having seen it first is too big of a gamble. With Netflix, I can watch 52+ movies a year, at a cost of $108. If I bought each of those movies, it would probably cost me somewhere in the neighborhood of $780 (using a conservative $15 per title).

At most, 20% of what I watch I might actually want to watch again, let alone own. But, even if I were to buy those titles at a later date, I'd still be way ahead. $108 + ($780 * 20%) = $264. I'd rather spend that extra $516 on equipment to help me better enjoy the content I'm watching.

Of course, anyone who is more readily entertained than I am and has a lot more time to spend on watching what they've purchased, might find just the opposite. But to me, there's just too much crappy and mediocre stuff to wade through, that I just can't imagine wanting to pay more than a $2 rental for it.

This is coming from a guy who still owns hundreds of laserdiscs, many of which are still in their original wrappers. (I learned a pretty good lesson.)

YMMV.

Scott

Maybe I am misinterpreting the term "collector" (i.e. the rent vs. buy argument), but the fact that catalog titles have been selling extremely poorly (whereas the new day/date blockbusters have been selling extremely well by comparison), tells me that it is not "collectors" that are fueling this format war.

Maybe it is more like peeps like me, that aren't planning on replacing any old DVD title that I already have (with a few notable exceptions), and instead would rather plunk-down the $20+ for a new title release than pay $20+ to have seen it once in a theater a few months ago?

One more advantage to renting: It allows me to take a chance on a movie that I would never consider purchasing. The most recent example for me was Hot Fuzz. There's no way I would have ever considered buying it for $30, but It was one of those movies that I really, really enjoyed.

It is now on my list of discs to purchase.

Scott

I have never rented and never will. That is what pay-per-view is for.

I have never rented and never will. That is what pay-per-view is for.That's an option, but not for me. It's generally more expensive, and the quality just doesn't compare (unless you're looking at PPV HD vs. SD DVD).

Scott

I am an HD collector and proud of it. We were told about Hi Def in the 80s and so I have been waiting for it to become mainstream. I never collected VHS, DVD, laserdisc et al. and now I have home versions of my favourite movies that look better than they did in the cinema. Of course, I nearly always rent before buying.
If its HD DVD or Blu Ray, I don't care, I have waited long enough for this technology.
People who get upset probably bought loads of Laserdiscs and DVDs

A lot of the animosity among end users is probably due to people having spent an inordinate amount of money on hardware that was a late beta, then spending even more money on software.

The "collectors like to OWN" argument doesn't seem to stand in the US, where EULAs basically limit end users to owning a license to view the contents, and not the disc itself.

If people had waited for someone else to jump in first and spend way too much for way too little on either side of the HD divide, one of two things would have happened: someone else would have footed the bill and the HD war would have been decided with no immediate cost to those that waited, or both formats would die. Either is still a possibility. Either is acceptable. I'm waiting. I realise it's difficult to be "in" alone, but then again that's one of the reasons I'm waiting.

I urge everyone that's so inclined to vehemently support one, the other, or both formats. Once the war is resolved and players and software fall to acceptable levels, I might buy.

I can see how collectors might get emotional with some skin in the game. I think this is all the more reason that the only real win-win is for both formats survive and for low-cost combo players to eventually dominate.

At this point I only have 42 titles in HD, but I would be upset if either format became obsolete. At the rate that I have been purchasing HD discs lately, I could get very emotional in another year or so. I have to think that the number of people in the same boat as me is increasing every day. I mean if you really like HD and you buy you will want to buy both formats.

Agreed miata. Even focusing on new and future releases it seems that both formats potentially have compelling content to offer. An inexpensive universal player would be an asset to all.

<Start Rant>

HD collector here. And to be honest i don't agree with the OPs comments.

The collectors are generally the more knowledgeable and sane folk who help out when the can. It's those damn console kids that start the cat fights and get fooled by twisted PR statements.

Also to be honest, the collector should have more desire to see their format fail. As a failed format = limited disc production = higher collection value.

But you see, us collectors aren't here for the money. We're here because we want films that exceed the quality shown at local cinemas, and this is what I'm getting, and I want it to continue. Hell I personally own 3x the number of HD optical disc titles than the largest rental outfit in New Zealand does.

if you buy a low-cost HD DVD player ($250 or less) and HD DVD loses, you still have a very good upconverting player. You wouldn't have bought any HD DVDs, so there's no money lost/wasted there.

This I don't understand. If you bought all these movies how do you loose out? You still have the movies, you still have the player. So obviously it still has its value.

And finally most of my format preferences derive from two areas.
- Choice
- Ease of content creation (yes i want to make/release my own films one day)

For me HDDVD outshines BD in both those areas. It's a simple as that.

<End Rant>

Most movies I view are for casual viewing only. No way would I spend the purchase price for them.

Buying becomes a constant churn of formats. VHS, Laserdisc, DVD, now HD DVD or Blu Ray. In another couple of years it will likely be memory cards or flash drives.

Too often either the content of a film is weak, or, the tranfer sucks.

I can count the # of titles in both Blu Ray and HD DVD that I would actually want to own on one hand. Most of these I already own on DVD.

Very true.

I collect because its my hobby. I love classic films and the history of film making. I have spent thousands on VHS, laserdisc and DVD. I'm sure I will spend thousands on HD DVD because I will enjoy seeing my favorite films from a whole new perspective. And of course I get a real thrill from seeing a new release in HD that is done right. Gives you that WOW feeling!

I collect, the whole point in putting as much money as I did into Movies, Music and Audio\Video equipment was that I wanted to watch and or listen to anything whenever I wanted to.

Depending on my mood or thing going on in my life I may want to watch or listen to completely different things. Renting does not give me that option, to me renting just adds 5-10$ to a movie I'd buy anyway.

"batmanbegan
Senior Member

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 240

I think the OP is right. People who have bought 200 movies are likely to get very upset if their format seems like it might die off, even though the discs will still play."


I have over 250 HD movies and I could care less who wins or won't care if both become niche status. My discs and players for both formats will still work for years and years to come. Even after both HD-DVD player and BLU-RAY players stop being made if either one of my players break I'll be able to replace them off ebay for real cheap. I will be able to enjoy the movies in probably the best quality they will ever be released in for the home viewer. I just don't care if I'm on a winning team, I'm not into HD to be a sports fan and root for a team, I'm in it to watch HD movies.

I am format neutral and rent almost exclusively. Netflix has almost 700 BD/HD titles (including some duplication). With the unlimited "3 at a time plan" I've always got new HD/BD movies on hand for a monthly cost that is less than the purchase price of one HD/BD title. There's just very few movies that I have any desire to own. If i want to rewatch something, I just put it back in my Neflix queue and I can have it in a couple of days.

I'd rather buy for now.

I haven't rented a movie in about 5 years, and I don't think I'll ever do it again.

The HD media sales are so sluggish and can use any help we can give them in my opinion. I saw go out and buy HD-DVDs and Blu-Ray to show studios that it is worth releasing titles in HD. I have never rented a DVD, and rented only a few out of print VHS and Laser Discs back in the day.

renting is a waste of money IMO, you have nothing to show for your money afterwards.It's not worth having something to show for your money afterwards if you're not going to use it again.

For the typical purchase price of a single HD DVD or Blu Ray movie, the same title can be rented at least 3 times, with change left over.

I don't plan or schedule my movie watching. I never know when I'm going to want to pop in a movie, let alone what I might want to watch that day. Also, every now and then I get on "a kick" for a certain movie and might want to watch it 2 or 3 times over a 1-2 month time period.

Renting simply doesn't allow for spontaneity.

Rent? No thanks.

What a great idea! All you BD owners - just start renting movies instead of buying them. Then watch that sales ratio go from 2 to 1 over to 1 to 5:rolleyes:

Buying a movie you'll only watch once or twice is like buying a lottery ticket. It's a tax on people who can't do math, with the very rare huge reward. When I first got into HD-DVD, I bought. I probably own around 20 HD-DVDs.

Then, I got married. It's funny how I would suddenly prefer to put that money into more substantial goods. Over the course of a year, I can watch 24 HD-DVDs for $108 or I can buy 24 HD-DVDs for $500 to $700. Considering I would not watch most of those movies more than once, buying them would be a waste of my money.

I understand that for many people, $600 is not a large amount of money over the course of a year. For me, it's not a trivial sum. So to those of you who can afford to tie up your money in HD media, all I can say is, enjoy!

For my purposes, I'll derive the same amount of enjoyment by renting most of my HD media. I'll reserve purchases for HD-DVD imports.

I don't plan or schedule my movie watching. I never know when I'm going to want to pop in a movie, let alone what I might want to watch that day. Also, every now and then I get on "a kick" for a certain movie and might want to watch it 2 or 3 times over a 1-2 month time period.

Renting simply doesn't allow for spontaneity.

Rent? No thanks.

Me 3, there are numerous movies that I can watch over and over, and every time I enjoy it as if it was the first time, movies like Gone in 60 Seconds, The Fast and Furious, Departed and the list goes on and on.. If renting were the only option for viewing HDM I would have never gotten into this. Fact, I love collecting movies..