While reading about the cool new T2 ultimate HD DVD and the interactivity, I found that Dynamic HD is exactly what we've been talking about in terms of bringing superb interactive and online experiences for a regular person owning just an HD DVD player.

http://www.designbyinfinity.com/internet/dynamicHD.jpg
http://www.designbyinfinity.com/internet/dynamicHDsite.jpg

The demo:
http://www.dynamichd.com

The website:
http://www.dynamichd.com/flashdemo.html

One word. Awesome!

The T2 extras look pretty solid.

Dynamic HD - Mind blowing experiences (future of home entertainment) - only on HD DVD
I take it you're pretty impressed ;)

I take it you're pretty impressed ;)

More then you think, because I see tremendous business potential for me personally as a provider but also a great convenience and value for a consumer.

It's a win win situation without Profile 1.0,1.1,1.3,2.0,3.0,4.0 crap.

Not to mention Pan's Labyrinth, CSI Miami, Saw movies coming to HD DVD.

Sounds like a poor-mans PS3, only without the powerful hardware to back it up. I don't understand why somebody who would be interested in going 'online' with their movie would think that an HD DVD player was the best way to go. The PS3 is clearly a far superior platform for this kind of thing.

Why would I want to play an interactive game on an HD DVD stand-alone player...I could probably have just as much fun with a cell-phone game...

One word. Awesome!

Amen ;)

Sounds like a poor-mans PS3, only without the powerful hardware to back it up. I don't understand why somebody who would be interested in going 'online' with their movie would think that an HD DVD player was the best way to go. The PS3 is clearly a far superior platform for this kind of thing.

Why would I want to play an interactive game on an HD DVD stand-alone player...I could probably have just as much fun with a cell-phone game...

Important difference, soon you can buy a $99,- HD DVD player that will do this, how much is the PS3 again.???

:D:D

Sounds like a poor-mans PS3, only without the powerful hardware to back it up. I don't understand why somebody who would be interested in going 'online' with their movie would think that an HD DVD player was the best way to go. The PS3 is clearly a far superior platform for this kind of thing.

Why would I want to play an interactive game on an HD DVD stand-alone player...I could probably have just as much fun with a cell-phone game...

right, so we should all ditch our $250 HD players and get a $600 one that can't do the same thing with any available or forthcoming title? WHAT?

so you spend 25% of the disc space on the movie and 75% on other crap?

Guess would could just use a regular SD-DVD...

I thought this was a MOVIE PLAYER FIRST....Guess I was wrong!!!

MS WebTV: Part Deux? :lol

hahaha - nfinity's post reads like marketting blurb!

Sounds like a poor-mans PS3, only without the powerful hardware to back it up. I don't understand why somebody who would be interested in going 'online' with their movie would think that an HD DVD player was the best way to go. The PS3 is clearly a far superior platform for this kind of thing.

Why would I want to play an interactive game on an HD DVD stand-alone player...I could probably have just as much fun with a cell-phone game...

Oh brother..The Blu boys came sooner than I thought. I knew it'd be a matter of time before some fanboy comes and talks down about this. Its simple, if you don't like the interactive features then don't bother. Its just nice to get more for what you pay for, even if you probably will never use it.

It may not matter either way, in the end, when nearly every household already has a computer with internet access to provide the ultimate interactive experience. Can a movie player really do it better? I guess time will tell, but a little skepticism is hardly unexpected (regardless of which side you stand).

Some amazing DynamicHD HD DVD menus from the web site:

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6241/menu1sz8.jpg

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5000/menu2gq6.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/91/menu3qb2.jpg

that's a little worrying isn't it! "unlock audio tracks. unlock making of. unlock alternate ending." so are these companies gonna force you to pay again to have some of these extras, when they were free before on the disc? not sure consumers are gonna be pleased with that...

Nothing new and special, just better use of HD DVD standard.

Andrew

I take it you're pretty impressed ;)

I think you mean easily impressed.

I would be skeptical plugging my HDM player into the web. Other than the occasional firmware update, I don't want companies and various watchdog agencies monitoring how I use my machine.

Why does one need to be connected to the internet in order to enjoy interactive features? Seems like a ruse for studios to generate additional revenue streams as well as marketing research and analysis.

No thanks. I'll stick with my "obsolete" player. Image and audio quality is more important than gimmicks. I don't need company shills telling me that I need interactivity.

It may not matter either way, in the end, when nearly every household already has a computer with internet access to provide the ultimate interactive experience.I was thinking the same thing.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've used the web browsers in my PS3 and Wii.

IMDB.com (http://www.imdb.com)

Apple.com/trailers (http://www.apple.com/trailers)

Awesome. You mean I can go to a website to chat and buy crap. I wish my PC did that...

that's a little worrying isn't it! "unlock audio tracks. unlock making of. unlock alternate ending." so are these companies gonna force you to pay again to have some of these extras, when they were free before on the disc? not sure consumers are gonna be pleased with that...

I'm very much against this online interactivity if they force us to spend any more money on top of the already high price of the HD-DVD disc..

I already got upset at the 300 HD-DVD interactive nonsense when they are asking for money to download wallpapers and ringtones for your cell-phone.. That took the cake...

So your porn watching behavior is watched by HD DVD big brothers online. Isn't it scary?

There has been much talk from people about the advantage of being able to download audio tracks and subtitles presumably for free. Go to Toshiba's HD-DVD website and watch some of the promo movies. When the woman talks about internet interactivity and downloads, the image on the simulated HD-DVD screen shows "BUY SOUNDTRACK".

Pretty soon we'll be buying $30 movies that only contain the main soundtrack and movie. Everything else will be "100 HD-DVD credits are required to view this content." If so, no thank you. Studios are probably salivating over the potential revenue from double and triple dipping.

Not only that, where is all this data going to be stored? I'm either going to need a HD-DVD player with a hard drive or a PC on the network. Are studios going to keep this content online ad infinitum? What happens when you have to delete content to make room or your player/server dies? Will it be free to download again later on? What happens if you take a disc to a friend's house to watch? Will the downloaded content be tied to an account so it is free to download multiple times or is this really where double/triple dipping comes into play?

Just give me all the damn content on the disc.

Awesome. You mean I can go to a website to chat and buy crap. I wish my PC did that...

A PC can also play DVDs and still people buy players. Go figure...



Not only that, where is all this data going to be stored?

5 words:

external
hard
drive
USB
socket

Just the movie with great PQ & AQ, that's all.

As someone who fairly often does listen to commentries and is interested in film making etc, the most interesting part for me looked like the enhanced commentry / in stream info functionality. While like commentries on SD-DVD these tracks will interest a small proportion of users, its a great feature for those who are interested.

It will be interested to see how the web enabled stuff on the high def formats go - the web stuff on dvds never took off due to it being seperate from the main part of the dvd, only playable on computers (often solely Windows at that) and often went out of date quickly. It definitely has the potential to be annoying or just replicate how can be done on the internet elsewhere. Interesting times ahead.

However definitely a good looking release.

A PC can also play DVDs and still people buy players. Go figure...


Nice try. Except it doesn't typically play DVDs on a huge ass TV as it's either in another room and/or doesn't have proper video out. In any case, it's still a PIA. Thanks for thinking...

Cool stuff

Just the movie with great PQ & AQ, that's all.

I second that. I own both platforms and all I'm doing is watching the movie. :cool:

Don't see anything on here BD can't do.

Don't see anything on here BD can't do.

A year from now - maybe:D

Some amazing DynamicHD HD DVD menus from the web site:

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6241/menu1sz8.jpg


Yay! A chance to buy crap that used to be free! Can't wait!

There has been much talk from people about the advantage of being able to download audio tracks and subtitles presumably for free. Go to Toshiba's HD-DVD website and watch some of the promo movies. When the woman talks about internet interactivity and downloads, the image on the simulated HD-DVD screen shows "BUY SOUNDTRACK".

Pretty soon we'll be buying $30 movies that only contain the main soundtrack and movie. Everything else will be "100 HD-DVD credits are required to view this content." If so, no thank you. Studios are probably salivating over the potential revenue from double and triple dipping.

Not only that, where is all this data going to be stored? I'm either going to need a HD-DVD player with a hard drive or a PC on the network. Are studios going to keep this content online ad infinitum? What happens when you have to delete content to make room or your player/server dies? Will it be free to download again later on? What happens if you take a disc to a friend's house to watch? Will the downloaded content be tied to an account so it is free to download multiple times or is this really where double/triple dipping comes into play?

Just give me all the damn content on the disc.

I think what they mean by "Buy Soundtrack" is the music cd or even mp3's of the music that is in the movie. Alot of movie's have the music from the movie on cd's in stores for sale, just now you can do it from your couch and from the movie you want the music from.

Yay! A chance to buy crap that used to be free! Can't wait!

LOL. My thoughts exactly.

if the studios can make money selling useless crap on the internet, where is the harm? i don't have to buy it, i don't have to use the service at all, and the internet stuff takes away a tiny bit of storage on the disc compared to the hd audio and video.

i hope they make so much money selling useless crap that they start cranking out hd discs like crazy and passing them out on street corners for free. let the people who like to buy useless crap pay for my hdm addiction.

maybe a lot of people will actually like the online stuff and think hdm is the actual useless crap because they can't see much difference.

I would be skeptical plugging my HDM player into the web. Other than the occasional firmware update, I don't want companies and various watchdog agencies monitoring how I use my machine.

Why does one need to be connected to the internet in order to enjoy interactive features? Seems like a ruse for studios to generate additional revenue streams as well as marketing research and analysis.

No thanks. I'll stick with my "obsolete" player. Image and audio quality is more important than gimmicks. I don't need company shills telling me that I need interactivity.

I guess you never read PS3 EULA? Just read it slowly and get ready to be stunned. They monitor EVERYTHING. The games you play, the movies you will watch etc etc.

if the studios can make money selling useless crap on the internet, where is the harm? i don't have to buy it, i don't have to use the service at all, and the internet stuff takes away a tiny bit of storage on the disc compared to the hd audio and video.

i hope they make so much money selling useless crap that they start cranking out hd discs like crazy and passing them out on street corners for free. let the people who like to buy useless crap pay for my hdm addiction.
You my new friend just hit the nail on the head!

'Unlock audio tracks'?
'Unlock making of'?
'Unlock alternate ending'?

That means the content is inside the disc, but locked!!??


http://www.geocities.com/lainus22/oc/wtf.jpg

if the studios can make money selling useless crap on the internet, where is the harm? i don't have to buy it, i don't have to use the service at all, and the internet stuff takes away a tiny bit of storage on the disc compared to the hd audio and video.

i hope they make so much money selling useless crap that they start cranking out hd discs like crazy and passing them out on street corners for free. let the people who like to buy useless crap pay for my hdm addiction.

maybe a lot of people will actually like the online stuff and think hdm is the actual useless crap because they can't see much difference.

Exactly..

It's actually pathetic to see a lot of blu-ray fanbois here saying absolutely ridiculous comments like who needs this. The difference my friends is that you will eventually have this on Blu-Ray too..Only a year or two from now.. But yeah, everything that HD DVD offers that extends experience in your room without having to buy $600-$1500 computers, or consoles or media centers while for HD DVD we will be paying very soon $99 players and have all these things included. There's a significant difference.

Second, all I see is that DynamicHD will offer ADDITIONAL stuff to an already established practice like online shop accessories and movies stuff you can buy and possibly additional region localized stuff as the format is region free and there's really no need to include every single subtitle for example on a disc. A user in Slovakia can download specialized subtitles for a movie in there selection.

This is called FLEXIBILITY and usability.

And LOL at bitter comments like everything is going to get charged. How about we comment on that if it becomes reality shell we?

No, it's called useless. The sad thing is where fanboys get excited about it like it's the second coming. It's not a revolutionary new feature; it's allowing the marketing tools to shove more crap down our throats. It's not an "experience" to be able to go shopping on the internet through a clunky interface.

No, it's called useless. The sad thing is where fanboys get excited about it like it's the second coming. It's not a revolutionary new feature; it's allowing the marketing tools to shove more crap down our throats. It's not an "experience" to be able to go shopping on the internet through a clunky interface.

Wow..so any type of progress that should allow mass usage is BAD and should not be done at all? Because this is basically what you're saying?

Since when is having additional things and choice a bad thing?

Jesus, I have absolutely no need for this personally as I have numerous computers connected throughout the house and directly on my main system in the living room but I STRONGLY support it..but for someone to say that the idea where people will be able more easily access online features in their living rooms without paying a bucket load of money is bad..well that's really so shallow, narrowminded and very self-centered. No wonder this world is going to crap.

You people are pathetic seriously.

All I see is a lot of bitter people that are spitting on this because they can't do this now or won't be for who knows how long.

But I guarantee once BD goes 2.0 you will all be drooling and saying that interactive features that it provides is the second comming. Really. Pathetic.

I guess you never read PS3 EULA? Just read it slowly and get ready to be stunned. They monitor EVERYTHING. The games you play, the movies you will watch etc etc.

Need a cite.

if the studios can make money selling useless crap on the internet, where is the harm?

Yeah, like the Spanish audio and subtitles they included in the Hot Fuzz DVD but not on the HD DVD... Why include them in the disc if they can make me pay to download them? Hey, come to think of it, why not put them in the disc, but lock them inside and have me pay for the code key? Best of both worlds!

Now I'm giving the industry ideas ;)

And LOL at bitter comments like everything is going to get charged. How about we comment on that if it becomes reality shell we?

How about we comment on that now since that is what this presentation the the studios is promising?

Shall I run a Poll to see how many here bought a Pet Rock? Millions did you know.

The studios feel that IME and Web Enable will be the key to getting consumers to move up from DVD to HDM. We know from past experience that better PQ and AQ is not enough. Whatever they do with it will still be a benefit because DVD doesn't have it unless you use a PC. These are fancy DVD players not PC's.

Will it be used for marketing? Of course! How do you think George Lucas became a billionaire? By selling tickets to his movies? Or by controlling the merchandising of the products that are spun off from his movies?

If my memory serves me, they made more money on merchandising on BATMAN then they did in box office revenue and that film I believe went over $200 million.

If HDM stays a niche market, studios are not going to give it their all because they will be too concerned with keeping costs down. Anything that makes the studios money in the home video market is a good idea to me.

Just the movie with great PQ & AQ, that's all.

Personally, I agree. However, if Dynamic HD convinces more studios to support HD DVD then I'm all for it!

Old question, I know. Sony's BD+ (it's interactive features that HD-DVD already has) will not work on current Blu-ray players? Even with a firmware upgrade?

Yeah, like the Spanish audio and subtitles they included in the Hot Fuzz DVD but not on the HD DVD... Why include them in the disc if they can make me pay to download them? Hey, come to think of it, why not put them in the disc, but lock them inside and have me pay for the code key? Best of both worlds!

Now I'm giving the industry ideas ;)

grubert,

your post reminds me of my parents who are retired and think computers and the internet are destroying civilization as we know it. imo they are and it is creating a better world. unfortunately my parents can only see the negatives.

maybe they will charge a few people for alternate languages but the benefit is that, in theory, anybody on the planet could have subtitles or possibly audio in their native language. the money to fund that has to come from somewhere.

the locked content on the surface is not good. but, in reality it is just a new form of advertising that we haven't experienced because it is new technology. imo this is no worse then putting a ton of adds before a movie that you cannot skip over. it is a new way to get consumers to take a look at the useless crap the studios want to sell. but, also there will be free downloads.

"In my day we didn't have no fancy latex condoms. We just wrapped rabbit skins around our dinks. AND WE LIKED IT!"

Wow..so any type of progress that should allow mass usage is BAD and should not be done at all? Because this is basically what you're saying?

Since when is having additional things and choice a bad thing?

Jesus, I have absolutely no need for this personally as I have numerous computers connected throughout the house and directly on my main system in the living room but I STRONGLY support it..but for someone to say that the idea where people will be able more easily access online features in their living rooms without paying a bucket load of money is bad..well that's really so shallow, narrowminded and very self-centered. No wonder this world is going to crap.

You people are pathetic seriously.

All I see is a lot of bitter people that are spitting on this because they can't do this now or won't be for who knows how long.

But I guarantee once BD goes 2.0 you will all be drooling and saying that interactive features that it provides is the second comming. Really. Pathetic.

The only person that's pathetic is the one that thinks that accessing the internet through a clunky interface to go shopping is "Mind Blowing"

grubert,

your post reminds me of my parents who are retired and think computers and the internet are destroying civilization as we know it. imo they are and it is creating a better world. unfortunately my parents can only see the negatives.

maybe they will charge a few people for alternate languages but the benefit is that, in theory, anybody on the planet could have subtitles or possibly audio in their native language. the money to fund that has to come from somewhere.

the locked content on the surface is not good. but, in reality it is just a new form of advertising that we haven't experienced because it is new technology. imo this is no worse then putting a ton of adds before a movie that you cannot skip over. it is a new way to get consumers to take a look at the useless crap the studios want to sell. but, also there will be free downloads.

"In my day we didn't have no fancy latex condoms. We just wrapped rabbit skins around our dinks. AND WE LIKED IT!"

Exactly and not only that, but this could, if it works financially for studios, allow people to get the actual discs with the movie much cheaper. Just look at AOL example (I know I know it's not really the same thing), having the extra offering and their own browser, allowed them to give discs away for free. Sure movies are going to be charged for, but I'm pretty sure, when all studios embrace this, the competition will be much more fierce and we will see price drops on movies even more.

The only person that's pathetic is the one that thinks that accessing the internet through a clunky interface to go shopping is "Mind Blowing"

Do you actually read your comments? Or you just type them as you go without thinking at all?

Do you actually read your comments? Or you just type them as you go without thinking at all?

Do you even put any effort into trolling, or does anything suffice?

Do you even put any effort into trolling, or does anything suffice?

Yep, I'm the troll LOL..

I bet if this was Sony's new BD feature all the little BD fanboys would be the ones touting what a great idea this was.

This is so typical.

I bet if this was Sony's new BD feature all the little BD fanboys would be the ones touting what a great idea this was.



Actually, profile 2.0 supports this very feature. And I still don't think it is a great idea. :p

Sour grapes are from the Profile 1.0 PS3 owners :p

Need a cite.

Taken from PS3 North America EULA (Privacy one)


Collection of Non-Personally Identifying Information Through PSN
SCEA may also collect information such as your IP address, IP address-related information, network configurations, your network devices, peripherals, USB devices, plug-ins and monitors, information from your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system unit and information about how you use PSN and your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system unit, including, for example, downloads, game activity (including game title name and length of play), forum postings, game profile, rankings and presence on Friends list or block list (collectively, “passive information”). This type of information will be collected even for offline gameplay. SCEA may also place cookies on your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system unit’s hard drive. Cookies are bits of electronic information that keep records of the places you have visited on PSN and to keep track of your purchases on PSN.



We may use your personally identifying information and records for defense in a lawsuit, investigation or other action if your personally identifying information, records or profiles are relevant to the lawsuit, investigation or action.



We may also disclose your personally identifying information to other Sony Computer Entertainment companies, Sony affiliates and certain third parties that we have engaged to assist us in providing the PSN service to you, including facilitating online game services, including customer services, or maintaining our database records. This includes, but is not limited to, fulfillment houses, transaction managers, credit card services, online network services and data management companies.



Just a few things as I glanced over it. I find this type of tracking very concerning.

And in other news another Sony rootkit fiasco. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6975838.stm

Did consumers ask for more interactive features? No.

I think HD DVD (and Blu-Ray) are pushing interactive features as a way to further differenciate HDM disks from other options (bootleg disks, Video-on-Demand, and both legitimate and illegitimate downloads). Picture quality isn't enough. If they can get consumers hooked on the extra features, then perhaps consumers will purchase HDM disks over the cheaper alternatives.

Actually, profile 2.0 supports this very feature. And I still don't think it is a great idea. :p

That's you Grubert. You tend to stay outside the fanboy realm pretty well. I'm talking about the other obvious ones in the thread who seemingly today have taken up an attack strategy the day before CEDIA.

grubert,

your post reminds me of my parents who are retired and think computers and the internet are destroying civilization as we know it. imo they are and it is creating a better world. unfortunately my parents can only see the negatives.

this is a backwards comparison. the features being potentially charged for here through an internet connection unlock are already available not only on hd dvd and bd but on dvd as well. this isn't a step forward into a brave new world it's a retrograde leap towards the almighty dollar. while some on here may celebrate the chance to now pay a second time to watch a making-of featurete, i won't be joining them in that cork popping. look again at the menu mockups displayed for the studio's perusal - "unlock making of", "unlock alternative ending". these have been freely available up till now on the majority of new dvds, so this isn't about offering the consumer any new optioins, rather about giving studios the opportunity to gouge us a little more deeply.

personally i won't be affected since i tend to not watch extras, and certainly won't be paying more for them. but the principle is not anything to applaud, and i very much doubt this will be a "special feature" limited to just hd dvd. boo, hollywood, boo. :(

http://www.tunehd.net/

I am very impressed.

IF BD does this, then I will be impressed as well.

It is amazing the number of threadcrappers that magically appear when something cool is announced for HD DVD.

Instead of bringing down our forum, please either:
1. resist commenting
2. buy both formats and then you can legitimately comment on both.

[QUOTE=FrancescoP;11505600]Some amazing DynamicHD HD DVD menus from the web site:

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6241/menu1sz8.jpg

Wow, this is a feature that will promote HD-DVD. Take something that is currently 1) easy (just insert disc and it ALL is available) and 2) free and make it into something that 1) could be difficult and 2) possibly costly.

There are times when I watch something on a video disc specifically because my internet service is down (I have Comcast currently and they have not proven to be nearly as reliable as I'd like). I'd suggest a more "user friendly" name for the "unlock functions". Why not call it the "Mother May I?" feature.

Real nice braintrust in the HD-DVD camp. Charge the public $35 for a Combo disc and then hit them for a second round of costs later. Must be getting some advice from the Cable Television industry on how to "nickle and dime" folks to death.

I love this idea. I don't care about extras at all. Unload all that crap onto the net and dedicate 100% of the disc to the best audio and video the format is capable of.

Some amazing DynamicHD HD DVD menus from the web site:

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6241/menu1sz8.jpg

Wow, this is a feature that will promote HD-DVD. Take something that is currently 1) easy (just insert disc and it ALL is available) and 2) free and make it into something that 1) could be difficult and 2) possibly costly.

There are times when I watch something on a video disc specifically because my internet service is down (I have Comcast currently and they have not proven to be nearly as reliable as I'd like). I'd suggest a more "user friendly" name for the "unlock functions". Why not call it the "Mother May I?" feature.

Real nice braintrust in the HD-DVD camp. Charge the public $35 for a Combo disc and then hit them for a second round of costs later. Must be getting some advice from the Cable Television industry on how to "nickle and dime" folks to death.

You're right. You should probably organize a (another) class-action lawsuit against the HD DVD companies. Good thinking.

BTW - how's that lawsuit against Paramount/Microsoft/Toshiba working out for you? "Braintrust" indeed...

I am very impressed.

IF BD does this, then I will be impressed as well.

It is amazing the number of threadcrappers that magically appear when something cool is announced for HD DVD.

Instead of bringing down our forum, please either:
1. resist commenting
2. buy both formats and then you can legitimately comment on both.

+1

Yea, funny how you get people that need to chime in "This sucks". Funny, most seem to be from the BD side.

I am very impressed.

IF BD does this, then I will be impressed as well.

It is amazing the number of threadcrappers that magically appear when something cool is announced for HD DVD.

Instead of bringing down our forum, please either:
1. resist commenting
2. buy both formats and then you can legitimately comment on both.

I suppose if I haven't bought either player I would be allowed to comment as well? I have no vested interest in either format right now, I just happen to think blu-ray is better. For me, it comes down to the technical specs and nothing more. If HD-DVD had more capacity, higher transfer rates, and more durable discs, I would be favoring HD-DVD. Also, the long-term potential of Blu-ray seems better...I guess I just believe the hype that someday 200gb discs will be possible using the same basic technology.

I love this idea. I don't care about extras at all. Unload all that crap onto the net and dedicate 100% of the disc to the best audio and video the format is capable of.


Unfortunately it probably doesn't work that way. Those 'Unlock' menu options mean the disc-space is taken up with the content, you just have to pay extra money to see it. Personally, I am fine with the model, as in theory it will allow the studios to sell the basic-disc for cheaper. Since I don't care about all that extra crap, I am happy to have those who want it cover the cost instead of me.

maybe they will charge a few people for alternate languages but the benefit is that, in theory, anybody on the planet could have subtitles or possibly audio in their native language. the money to fund that has to come from somewhere.
I have in my hand a R4 copy of Life of Brian on *DVD* I bought in a bargain bin a couple of years ago. It has *21* alternate languages for subtitles, including Arabic, Bulgarian, Finnish, Hebrew, Hindi , Icelandic, Swedish and Turkish. This is not an issue that needs to be solved by equpping players with Ethernet ports, and it's certainly not a funding problem if it can be done for a catalogue title in a small market like R4

I suppose if I haven't bought either player I would be allowed to comment as well? I have no vested interest in either format right now, I just happen to think blu-ray is better. For me, it comes down to the technical specs and nothing more. If HD-DVD had more capacity, higher transfer rates, and more durable discs, I would be favoring HD-DVD. Also, the long-term potential of Blu-ray seems better...I guess I just believe the hype that someday 200gb discs will be possible using the same basic technology.


Exactly right. You can't comment on the formats if you don't have player. How can you? I can't even understand how Blu-Ray only or HD DVD only people can comment on other format. Unless you have both to experience and use on a daily basis you simply cannot create an objective opinion, it's simple as that. Actually HD DVD only people have a few quite obvious things to comments on against Blu-Ray as Blu-Ray simply doesn't offer the same amount of features. Period.

By the way you judge is like you would say, you know what Pontiac is a better car then Mercedes or Audi because it has more powerful engine, however you have not driven either?


If HD-DVD had more capacity, higher transfer rates, and more durable discs


Okay, so if TL51gb comes out and is fully usable on HD DVD, Toshiba players get a firmware upgrade to increase read speeds to 1.5x raising the transfer rates you would be favoring HD DVD?

Your statement about durability of the discs is completely asinine. How can you say that Blu-Ray discs are more durable after a year of usage? HD DVD has proven track record with DVDs as it is using the same process, same discs basically. So if anything, DURABILITY is on HD DVDs side for now, unless proven otherwise. Right? The hardcoating "songs" are just singing in the wind until a few years has passed. What happenes if the problems that happened with Prestige and a few others start showing 2 years from now? Would you call BDs more durable then?


Also, the long-term potential of Blu-ray seems better

LOL, how so, please do tell how is long-term potential better on Blu-Ray?


I guess I just believe the hype that someday 200gb discs will be possible using the same basic technology

And you can continue believing that. But let me give you a hint. It won't be possible. As you probably don't invest the same amount of research in reading about what interests you but just copy and paste things you read somewhere on a forum.

100-150gb discs on HD DVD and 200gb discs on Blu-ray will not be possible without massive changes in optics. Meaning that you will have to replace your players anyways.

But the whole idea of investing in optical media is so idiotic that we will see more and more hard drives and other removable media hit terabytes in much smaller form factor and more reliable storage form then optical media that is slow and unreliable.

I love this idea. I don't care about extras at all. Unload all that crap onto the net and dedicate 100% of the disc to the best audio and video the format is capable of.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The best part about this feature is that it will hopefully free up space on the disk for greater PQ & AQ.

Picture and audio quality is downplayed over and over for HD-DVD (by both HD and BD fans) All I ever hear is how cheap it is and new awesome interactivity. When I heard that my XA2 was getting 24p and bitstreaming audio in an firmware upgrade, I was thrilled and yet no one talks about that.

I get, "yeah, that's nice, did you hear about the PIP?"

Most of the people on AVS especially the most passionate individuals on both sides, must have better equipment than I do. Yet I never hear the Tier 0 & 1 folks ever mention it. Come on guys, interactivity is great but don't forget about why you got into HD to begin with and show some pride about your AQ & PQ once in a while!

But the whole idea of investing in optical media is so idiotic that we will see more and more hard drives and other removable media hit terabytes in much smaller form factor and more reliable storage form then optical media that is slow and unreliable.I think the hundreds of millions of people who bought into CD and DVD might disagree with you there.

Why would I want to play an interactive game on an HD DVD stand-alone player...I could probably have just as much fun with a cell-phone game...

Oh brother..The Blu boys came sooner than I thought. I knew it'd be a matter of time before some fanboy comes and talks down about this. Its simple, if you don't like the interactive features then don't bother. Its just nice to get more for what you pay for, even if you probably will never use it.

As soon as I saw the title I knew that it would be only a matter of minutes before the Blubots would slither out from under their rocks to denigrate any positive HD DVD developments. Of course, as soon as Blu can do this, it'll be the greatest thing since sliced bread...so their comments are nothing more than naked hypocrisy in action.

I think the hundreds of millions of people who bought into CD and DVD might disagree with you there.

Right, but this was the past. We are talking about the future. The fact is that there is simply no place for optical media in the future except for movies for example or collectors. We have removable storage all over the place. We didn't have this 5-10 years ago. As technology improves we simply have no need anymore for optical media.

Just tell me that you would rather burn a disc on BD or HD DVD for 5, 10, 20 mins as opposed to dragging and dropping files directly on a fixed removable media within seconds. Not to mention the rewritability issues with optical discs and so on.

Optical media had it's run.

Let me give you some food for thought. Wireless USB (http://www.usb.org/developers/wusb/). Do you know what this means? That means that you will have 20,30,100gb USB removable media that will work without even plugging it to the device and it will be dirt cheap as we already see today. This is the future, not optical media. Just think about it.

I think the hundreds of millions of people who bought into CD and DVD might disagree with you there.

As will the folks who chose MP3 and iTunes over SACD might disagree with you. :)

'Unlock audio tracks'?
'Unlock making of'?
'Unlock alternate ending'?

That means the content is inside the disc, but locked!!??


http://www.geocities.com/lainus22/oc/wtf.jpg

Nice one.. lol...

Right, but this was the past. We are talking about the future. The fact is that there is simply no place for optical media in the future except for movies for example or collectors. We have removable storage all over the place. We didn't have this 5-10 years ago. As technology improves we simply have no need anymore for optical media.

Just tell me that you would rather burn a disc on BD or HD DVD for 5, 10, 20 mins as opposed to dragging and dropping files directly on a fixed removable media within seconds. Not to mention the rewritability issues with optical discs and so on.

Optical media had it's run.

Let me give you some food for thought. Wireless USB (http://www.usb.org/developers/wusb/). Do you know what this means? That means that you will have 20,30,100gb USB removable media that will work without even plugging it to the device and it will be dirt cheap as we already see today. This is the future, not optical media. Just think about it.

So this is why you support HD-DVD. To help pave the way to online downloads of crappy quality movies that you have to keep on a hard drive as well as downloads which should have been free on the disc to begin with if it were optical... no thanks..

I think you've hit the nail on the head. The best part about this feature is that it will hopefully free up space on the disk for greater PQ & AQ.
that seems unlikely. think of the number of servers studios would have to maintain to allow access to this information from all the people who might at any point in time be interested in it. no, it makes much more sense technically to hold the information on disc as is currently the case, but to simply lock it off from view without an access key generated through the internet hook-up.

Most of the people on AVS especially the most passionate individuals on both sides, must have better equipment than I do. Yet I never hear the Tier 0 & 1 folks ever mention it. Come on guys, interactivity is great but don't forget about why you got into HD to begin with and show some pride about your AQ & PQ once in a while!
i suspect this is due to the importance of gaming devices to both formats, and the consequent influx of console fans we have had to these forums. some of them are quite "dedicated" to their particular format, but are perhaps not the usual type of hometheatre fan found on these boards. personally i'm right with you on 24fps being more important than flashy menus, but ours are not the loudest voices on these boards. perhaps we should spend a few more hours a day on here. every day. and start multiple threads disparaging the opposing format, or drawing attention to an outrageous claim from the "other" side, as if it were a personal insult. god, i love some of the characters on here. it's like being able to glimpse into a mental ward, without the inevitable ugly smells. other than hypothetical, of course...

[QUOTE=FrancescoP;11505600]Some amazing DynamicHD HD DVD menus from the web site:

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6241/menu1sz8.jpg

Wow, this is a feature that will promote HD-DVD. Take something that is currently 1) easy (just insert disc and it ALL is available) and 2) free and make it into something that 1) could be difficult and 2) possibly costly.

There are times when I watch something on a video disc specifically because my internet service is down (I have Comcast currently and they have not proven to be nearly as reliable as I'd like). I'd suggest a more "user friendly" name for the "unlock functions". Why not call it the "Mother May I?" feature.

Real nice braintrust in the HD-DVD camp. Charge the public $35 for a Combo disc and then hit them for a second round of costs later. Must be getting some advice from the Cable Television industry on how to "nickle and dime" folks to death.

Some people just like to bash when it comes to HD DVD. But begging for the same features in Blu Ray.

I know, but then again in most discs released in the States there are no German sub-titles. I'll be glad when Blu-ray reaches the point where we could down-load subtitles (and dialog would be even better) in a chosen language to our Blu-ray discs.

So i guess internet connection is not that important.:rolleyes:

jer

Convenient attitude for some here, that's for sure. Blu-ray can't do it so I don't care...:rolleyes:...well, I won't care until a year or two from now when Blu-ray can do the same on some of their players...;)

http://www.dynamichd.de/img/Screens/create_share.jpg

I see no mention of the "create and share" feature. Similar to that of 300's clip sharing feature and Universal's "Best Buddies" listed on their HD DVD website. This is a feature that adds value to every disc it's added to. It's also likely a write once and reuse functionality.

Meeting Place – the Web 2.0 Layer!
• Collect and share your favourite scenes
• Compile and share your playlists
• Share your comments (quotes, mistakes, etc)
• Create and share your own artwork
• Rate episodes or movies
• Take part in polls
• Swap meet ...

The framework is in place and can be easily added. Once again, efficiency...but no one wants that and doesn't mean jack in the real world or mass production, right?...;)

...i suspect this is due to the importance of gaming devices to both formats, and the consequent influx of console fans we have had to these forums. some of them are quite "dedicated" to their particular format, but are perhaps not the usual type of hometheatre fan found on these boards. personally i'm right with you on 24fps being more important than flashy menus, but ours are not the loudest voices on these boards. perhaps we should spend a few more hours a day on here. every day. and start multiple threads disparaging the opposing format, or drawing attention to an outrageous claim from the "other" side, as if it were a personal insult. god, i love some of the characters on here. it's like being able to glimpse into a mental ward, without the inevitable ugly smells. other than hypothetical, of course...

I know there are a lot of gamers out here, but I have to believe that the HD gang, (Lee, Slim, nfinity, rdjam, tim, midnight, kosty, and the Michaels) are not watching HD-DVD's with a 360 add-on hooked up to a 19" Philco, piped through some Bose cubes... These guys are SERIOUS about HD to the point that they must have $$$ tied up in AV and yet I still just keep hearing about PIP and <$200 1080i players. I'm not slamming them, I just don't get it.

I know there are a lot of gamers out here, but I have to believe that the HD gang, (Lee, Slim, nfinity, rdjam, tim, midnight, kosty, and the Michaels) are not watching HD-DVD's with a 360 add-on hooked up to a 19" Philco, piped through some Bose cubes... These guys are SERIOUS about HD to the point that they must have $$$ tied up in AV and yet I still just keep hearing about PIP and <$200 1080i players. I'm not slamming them, I just don't get it.

Can't really speak for the members you mentioned but for me, I'm just backing the format that makes sense to me. I have done my research and consequently HD DVD chose me. :D

jer

Convenient attitude for some here, that's for sure. Blu-ray can't do it so I don't care...:rolleyes:...well, I won't care until a year or two from now when Blu-ray can do the same on some of their players...;)

Format war biases aside, I really don't see this as that compelling. Interesting, sure but really no more so than just including a link to a film's web site.



http://www.dynamichd.de/img/Screens/create_share.jpg

I see no mention of the "create and share" feature. Similar to that of 300's clip sharing feature and Universal's "Best Buddies" listed on their HD DVD website. This is a feature that adds value to every disc it's added to. It's also likely a write once and reuse functionality.

Meeting Place – the Web 2.0 Layer!
• Collect and share your favourite scenes
• Compile and share your playlists
• Share your comments (quotes, mistakes, etc)
• Create and share your own artwork
• Rate episodes or movies
• Take part in polls
• Swap meet ...


And do all that without a keyboard? Bleah.

The framework is in place and can be easily added. Once again, efficiency...but no one wants that and doesn't mean jack in the real world or mass production, right?...;)

Frameworks are gonna be a dime a dozen before too long, for both sides.

These BD folks are incredible. I'm not supposed to be impressed by all the abilities of HD DVD TODAY, but I am supposed to be impressed by underacheiving, double priced Blu-ray players? What utter nonsense.

What can't you guys understand about the fact that your high player prices make it impossible for Blu-ray to become mass market as soon as this holiday season? You can't see this? Really?

Can't really speak for the members you mentioned but for me, I'm just backing the format that makes sense to me. I have done my research and consequently HD DVD chose me. :D

jer

I am backing HD-DVD as well, but I love to hear another fan that doesn't prefer it for appearance of the player or some other non-HD related reason...

These BD folks are incredible. I'm not supposed to be impressed by all the abilities of HD DVD TODAY, but I am supposed to be impressed by underacheiving, double priced Blu-ray players? What utter nonsense.

What can't you guys understand about the fact that your high player prices make it impossible for Blu-ray to become mass market as soon as this holiday season? You can't see this? Really?

If you're going to spend less than $2K total for a display, receiver, and speakers; you're not going to notice a difference between either format and standard DVD, if you're spending more than that all players are reasonably priced. I don't understand the price argument at all. It basically means that J6P will never choose either format because SD-DVD will always be cheaper.

Features, functionality, quality, upgrading potential - those I understand, and no I am not a BD fan...

[QUOTE=whippersnapper;11507664]

Some people just like to bash when it comes to HD DVD. But begging for the same features in Blu Ray.



So i guess internet connection is not that important.:rolleyes:

jer[/QUOTE[QUOTE]][quote=whippersnapper;11507664]
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancescoP
Some amazing DynamicHD HD DVD menus from the web site:



Wow, this is a feature that will promote HD-DVD. Take something that is currently 1) easy (just insert disc and it ALL is available) and 2) free and make it into something that 1) could be difficult and 2) possibly costly.

There are times when I watch something on a video disc specifically because my internet service is down (I have Comcast currently and they have not proven to be nearly as reliable as I'd like). I'd suggest a more "user friendly" name for the "unlock functions". Why not call it the "Mother May I?" feature.

Real nice braintrust in the HD-DVD camp. Charge the public $35 for a Combo disc and then hit them for a second round of costs later. Must be getting some advice from the Cable Television industry on how to "nickle and dime" folks to death.

HtLurker quote: "Some people just like to bash when it comes to HD DVD. But begging for the same features in Blu Ray."


Quote:
I know, but then again in most discs released in the States there are no German sub-titles. I'll be glad when Blu-ray reaches the point where we could down-load subtitles (and dialog would be even better) in a chosen language to our Blu-ray discs.

HtLurker quote: "So i guess internet connection is not that important.

jer"Dude, I never said internet connection wasn't important. And I do look forward to the time I can download things such as German language subtitles and/or dialog to a Blu-ray disc. But I do not look forward to things being placed on a disc that I purchase with my money and then be required to go into somebody's website to unlock that. Now you HD-DVD folks may think that's wonderful because your HD-DVD format overlords tell you to like it, but I don't like that and millions of others would not like it either. And there are some things that SHOULD be on the disc, such as alternate endings, different versions of the film, commentary, etc. Blu-ray will have those on the disc. Perhaps HD-DVD format will lack the storage capacity and/or bandwidth to do that?

BS. <$200 is a known J6P selling point. HD DVD can do it, Blu-ray is much further away.

I'll be totally honest, none of this stuff really excites me. OK, one idea I like is them potentially adding more stuff after the movie is released, but a few things worry me:

1. What happens in 5 years when it's not viable to keep the servers running anymore? Features gone forever.
2. What happens when you fill up the 192mb in your HD DVD player?

BS. <$200 is a known J6P selling point. HD DVD can do it, Blu-ray is much further away.

which means what exactly? that he spent less than $1K on his entire system and he isn't going to notice any difference at all wondering what all the fuss is about and telling his friends that its pretty much the same as SD-DVD?

which means what exactly? that he spent less than $1K on his entire system and he isn't going to notice any difference at all wondering what all the fuss is about and telling his friends that its pretty much the same as SD-DVD?

he is not going to notice any difference between the features that are the subject of this thread and normal dvd?

then again there is the possibility that the locked content isn't on the disc at all.which would free up space for movie content.
it could be just a link that you have to type in a disc specific product key to access the extra content through the internet.
making sure that someone using a copied disc wouldn't be able to access it.

Awesome. You mean I can go to a website to chat and buy crap. I wish my PC did that...

[/sarcasm on]

Hey! My BD player already does that! I have a keyboard, mouse and voice-quality audio ear-piece (all wireless blue-tooth connected to my PS3), and yet, I can't access Warner's "300" HD DVD's special "immersive", "connected", "on-line", "exclusive" experience of purchasing a wallpaper and ringtones?

Damn!

[/sarcasm off]

ROTFLMAO -- you'd think these studios invented the internet (Al Gore! where are you? Give up on that silly global warming thing ... and get game)

my point exactly, the subject of this thread, interactive features, is yet another distraction (along with low, low prices); from the AQ and PQ that makes HD-DVD great.

but I do appreciate the input, and this has helped me understand the issue better. I am afraid what I said earlier about J6P watching a 19" Philco, with a 360 add-on and bose cubes is closer to reality than I thought

and he doesn't care as long as the PiP commentary and interactive games work as advertised on the case. I am not being sarcastic, I am just depressed and I'm going to need more Veuve Clicquot...

I have news for all you Doubting Thomas's . . .

You better hope that the masses fall in love with IME and IF's. Because if they don't:

HDM = Niche Status

I guess you never read PS3 EULA? Just read it slowly and get ready to be stunned. They monitor EVERYTHING. The games you play, the movies you will watch etc etc.

Umm, can you prove that? If true, your news here is HUGE! BIGGER THAN THE SONY DRM ROOT-KIT. Please advise.

I have news for all you Doubting Thomas's . . .

You better hope that the masses fall in love with IME and IF's. Because if they don't:

HDM = Niche Status

agreed. i think these features level the playing field with pure downloaded content to some extent. if we do not have this type of enhancement, j6p will just move quickly to sd downloads and that will be the end of the shiny disc except for the same crowd that loved laserdisc.

While reading about the cool new T2 ultimate HD DVD and the interactivity, I found that Dynamic HD is exactly what we've been talking about in terms of bringing superb interactive and online experiences for a regular person owning just an HD DVD player.

http://www.designbyinfinity.com/internet/dynamicHD.jpg
http://www.designbyinfinity.com/internet/dynamicHDsite.jpg

The demo:
http://www.dynamichd.com

The website:
http://www.dynamichd.com/flashdemo.html

One word. Awesome!

LMAO...The best thing about this post is the BD exclusives on HD DVD...hahah look at the cover of crank...I would gladly trade my BD copy. This is awesome....I can see the BDA executives banging thier fists on thier peruvian walnut desk yelling "Damn, Damn, Damn!!!!!!!!!!!"

haha:D

I have news for all you Doubting Thomas's . . .

You better hope that the masses fall in love with IME and IF's. Because if they don't:

HDM = Niche Status

My God man, did you ever stop to think that we (I consider myself part of the general public) are buying HD optical media, because it offers better PQ and AQ than DVD???

I have never/EVER bought a movie because of the "features" or "marketing opportunities for the studio". You? seriously?

So, a logical inference from what you posted is that HD optical media is a niche ... a la laserdisc? and effectively dead?

My God man, did you ever stop to think that we (I consider myself part of the general public) are buying HD optical media, because it offers better PQ and AQ than DVD???

I have never/EVER bought a movie because of the "features" or "marketing opportunities for the studio". You? seriously?

So, a logical inference from what you posted is that HD optical media is a niche ... a la laserdisc? and effectively dead?

Yes I am. I do believe that HDM is headed for niche status because of the failure of LD to attract the masses. The equipment came down in price but the movies never did. People just aren't interested in better PQ/AQ as you think they are. How many members here at AVS?

The studios are literally trying anything they can to make a buck because of the falling revenues from DVD:

1. Day/Date with a theater on a brand new movie - being done in I believe Denver and Comcast.

2. 300 was available 1 week after it hit DVD on PPV. Normally it's like 30 days.

3. Movies directly to DVD - no theater showing.

4. SD and HD DNL's.

Kornblau (head of Universal) and the guy from Disney have publically stated that they feel IME/IF will be the thing to get people away from SD over to HDM. I believe them LONG BEFORE I believe ANYONE and their opinion here or anywheres else on any forum.

I have news for all you Doubting Thomas's . . .

You better hope that the masses fall in love with IME and IF's. Because if they don't:

HDM = Niche Status

Lee, I think you and a lot of other HD-DVD supporters are underestimating the importance of AQ & PQ and here's why: 3 of the top four flat screens on Amazon support 1080p and the top selling receiver is the Onkyo 705 which decodes the HD audio codecs. [edit: okay, the top selling speakers are unfit for placement in a prison cell]

IME and IF are in my opinion a cop out because HD-DVD doesn't have to compete here with BD. Where it can and does compete, we don't want to talk about that. The big-nine (yourself, Slim, nfinity, rdjam, tim, midnight, kosty, and the Michaels) avoid this like its radioactive always redirecting with PiP and profiles saying things like, "it's importance can not be overstated." I happen to disagree.

Lee, I think you and a lot of other HD-DVD supporters are underestimating the importance of AQ & PQ and here's why: 3 of the top four flat screens on Amazon support 1080p and the top selling receiver is the Onkyo 705 which decodes the HD audio codecs. [edit: okay, the top selling speakers are unfit for placement in a prison cell]

IME and IF are in my opinion a cop out because HD-DVD doesn't have to compete here with BD. Where it can and does compete, we don't want to talk about that. The big-nine (yourself, Slim, nfinity, rdjam, tim, midnight, kosty, and the Michaels) avoid this like its radioactive always redirecting with PiP and profiles saying things like, "it's importance can not be overstated." I happen to disagree.

Well if you are a BD supporter I can understand why you would disagree. Your choosen format can't do it. Best to just "sweep it under the rug" until such time that it can.

And I do not believe that the masses are here at AVS. As a matter of fact I know damn well they are not because we do not have millions of members here.

IME and IF will prove to be worthwile in converting SD owners to HDM. Mark my words.

...Picture and audio quality is downplayed over and over for HD-DVD (by both HD and BD fans) All I ever hear is how cheap it is and new awesome interactivity. When I heard that my XA2 was getting 24p and bitstreaming audio in an firmware upgrade, I was thrilled and yet no one talks about that.
I get, "yeah, that's nice, did you hear about the PIP?"

Huge HD-DVD fan, thanks.

3. Movies directly to DVD - no theater showing.

when you get a Front projector this becomes very attractive.:)

OMG Lee, you should resign your position, there is just so much wrong with your statements ...

Yes I am. I do believe that HDM is headed for niche status because of the failure of LD to attract the masses.

ROFL. LD? OMFG. What a silly statement ...

I've checked and know the crappy analog resolution of LD ... it suxored big time ... ["It featured a far sharper picture with a vertical resolution of 425 TVL lines for NTSC and 440 TVL lines for PAL discs ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laserdisc#Laserdisc_vs._VHS "]

The equipment came down in price but the movies never did. People just aren't interested in better PQ/AQ as you think they are. How many members here at AVS?.

Since you asked ... "People just aren't interested in better PQ/AQ as you think they are. How many members here at AVS?"

I've book-marked your quote -- "people just aren't interested in better Pw/Aq?" WTF are you smoking? or being paid to post this total BS???

People just aren't interested in better PQ/AQ as you think they are.

who are all the people buying 1080p displays and Onkyo 705's from Amazon? Millions, masses, average people right? They many not use clever abbeviations but they know what they want.

Look, I'm not saying PiP/IF is bad, I'm just saying it doesn't have to be the holy grail of HD or a knee-jerk response to every BD claim of superiority. 50 GB of crappy MPEG-2 is still crappy. Uncompressed PCM with a muddled voice track and weak surround tracks still sounds poor. Stand up and confront those claims and stop hiding behind the, "we got stuff that you guys don't," nonsense!

The big-nine (yourself, Slim, nfinity, rdjam, tim, midnight, kosty, and the Michaels)

The Big 9? Is that like The Magnificent Seven? Great, I've got that music running through my head now...and thinking about who's going to be cast as whom! Hmmm...too bad Yul Brenner, Steve McQueen, Bronson, Coburn, etc. are gone already. Who's gonna be Lee? Mel Gibson? George Clooney? Kosty played by Val Kilmer? Rdjam = Brad Pitt? :D:p:p:D

who are all the people buying 1080p displays and Onkyo 705's from Amazon? Millions, masses, average people right? They many not use clever abbeviations but they know what they want.

Look, I'm not saying PiP/IF is bad, I'm just saying it doesn't have to be the holy grail of HD or a knee-jerk response to every BD claim of superiority. 50 GB of crappy MPEG-2 is still crappy. Uncompressed PCM with a muddled voice track and weak surround tracks still sounds poor. Stand up and confront those claims and stop hiding behind the, "we got stuff that you guys don't," nonsense!


Millions are buying the 705? Right! I better go buy stock in THAT company. And millions are buying HDTV's but the huge majority of HDTV owners are not watching HD on their HDTV. So what does that tell you?

And what the hell are YOU smoking about claims of muddled voice and surround tracks. Something wrong with your equipment?

Or are you just one of those audio snobs I see post here so much lately

OMG Lee, you should resign your position, there is just so much wrong with your statements ...



ROFL. LD? OMFG. What a silly statement ...

I've checked and know the crappy analog resolution of LD ... it suxored big time ... ["It featured a far sharper picture with a vertical resolution of 425 TVL lines for NTSC and 440 TVL lines for PAL discs ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laserdisc#Laserdisc_vs._VHS "]



Since you asked ... "People just aren't interested in better PQ/AQ as you think they are. How many members here at AVS?"

I've book-marked your quote -- "people just aren't interested in better Pw/Aq?" WTF are you smoking? or being paid to post this total BS???


You have totally lost it! NO ONE and I mean NO ONE, EVER measured resolution by Vertical. It was ALWAYS hortizontal. VHS was 240, NTSC was 330 and LD was 400.

You know absolutely nothing about LD and your ignorance shows it. It had DD5.1(called AC-3) AND DTS YEARS before DVD ever came out. It also had both Anamorphic transfers AND HD.

The highest format EVER offered to the public before HD was ED-Beta at 500 Hort. res.

Nice job - not anyone can make a repost and look as foolish as you just did. Congrat's

just saying average people shop at Amazon not just AVS folks and not all BD is better just because of the bigger disk capacity - I don't own BD but I wasn't real impressed with some of the early BD stuff I saw, although I hear the current releases are better

I did not attack you and accuse you of smoking anything that was Ilka...

Lee, I think you and a lot of other HD-DVD supporters are underestimating the importance of AQ & PQ and here's why: 3 of the top four flat screens on Amazon support 1080p and the top selling receiver is the Onkyo 705 which decodes the HD audio codecs. [edit: okay, the top selling speakers are unfit for placement in a prison cell]

You think people are buying flat panel TVs for picture quality? Most flat panel HDTVs have worst contrast and worst color gamet than the standard definition CRTs they are replacing. The only thing they offer is increased resolution, and most owners are not using the increased resolution by connecting them to high resolution sources! Many consumers are buying HDTVs just because they are big and flat! That's it. If picture quality was a concern, we would see a lot more HD CRTs, which offer superior contrast and color. Americans don't have much history with high definition, but consider Japan which has had analog HDTV broadcasts and HD CRTs for over a decade, but HDTV never really took off in that country until flat-panel sets became available. It's all about the size and flatness of the TVs, not the picture quality.

Umm, can you prove that? If true, your news here is HUGE! BIGGER THAN THE SONY DRM ROOT-KIT. Please advise.

I already quoted PS3s EULA... here you go again:


Taken from PS3 North America EULA (Privacy one)


Collection of Non-Personally Identifying Information Through PSN
SCEA may also collect information such as your IP address, IP address-related information, network configurations, your network devices, peripherals, USB devices, plug-ins and monitors, information from your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system unit and information about how you use PSN and your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system unit, including, for example, downloads, game activity (including game title name and length of play), forum postings, game profile, rankings and presence on Friends list or block list (collectively, “passive information”). This type of information will be collected even for offline gameplay. SCEA may also place cookies on your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system unit’s hard drive. Cookies are bits of electronic information that keep records of the places you have visited on PSN and to keep track of your purchases on PSN.



We may use your personally identifying information and records for defense in a lawsuit, investigation or other action if your personally identifying information, records or profiles are relevant to the lawsuit, investigation or action.



We may also disclose your personally identifying information to other Sony Computer Entertainment companies, Sony affiliates and certain third parties that we have engaged to assist us in providing the PSN service to you, including facilitating online game services, including customer services, or maintaining our database records. This includes, but is not limited to, fulfillment houses, transaction managers, credit card services, online network services and data management companies.



Just a few things as I glanced over it. I find this type of tracking very concerning.

Wasn't there a "you might be a fanboy" list awhile back that said you might be a fanboy if describe every feature your format has as critical and every feature the opposing format has as irrelevent?

Wasn't there a "you might be a fanboy" list awhile back that said you might be a fanboy if describe every feature your format has as critical and every feature the opposing format has as irrelevent?

LOL! Thanks for the laugh!:)

*snip* Of course, as soon as Blu can do this, it'll be the greatest thing since sliced bread...so their comments are nothing more than naked hypocrisy in action.

No doubt. In fact, if and when the profile snafu is sorted out, they'll be crowing about how much better BD interactivity is. :rolleyes:

The most pathetic thing about all the BR trolling going on in this thread is that if any of these features were announced for BR, it would be heralded as the second coming of Christ himself.

If you as a consumer don't like the features, then don't use them. What's the big effing deal? Bottom line is that more interactivity is a good thing.

I already quoted PS3s EULA... here you go again:


Taken from PS3 North America EULA (Privacy one)


Just a few things as I glanced over it. I find this type of tracking very concerning.


Hmmm. Sounds like an untapped market for Lavasoft's AD-AWARE.

who are all the people buying 1080p displays and Onkyo 705's from Amazon? Millions, masses, average people right? They many not use clever abbeviations but they know what they want.

Look, I'm not saying PiP/IF is bad, I'm just saying it doesn't have to be the holy grail of HD or a knee-jerk response to every BD claim of superiority. 50 GB of crappy MPEG-2 is still crappy. Uncompressed PCM with a muddled voice track and weak surround tracks still sounds poor. Stand up and confront those claims and stop hiding behind the, "we got stuff that you guys don't," nonsense!

umm.....i doubt onkyo is selling millions of 705's at $630 a peice. Most people are using the speakers in their tv's for audio, and are completely happy with it. I used the speakers in my lcd for a long time. The only reason I got a surround system was because I'm getting a projector in the next month or so. Of the majority of HDTV owners I know, most watch primarily SDTV stretched to 16:9. HDTV sales are sky rocketting not because people want HDTV's, but because that's pretty much the only option left for the consumer. That's like Warner releasing 300 combo only on HD DVD then saying 7 million people bought the HD DVD version of 300 in 1 week.

It seems people on this site really believe they're perception of reality is the one supported by the majority of consumers.

Lee, I think you and a lot of other HD-DVD supporters are underestimating the importance of AQ & PQ and here's why: 3 of the top four flat screens on Amazon support 1080p and the top selling receiver is the Onkyo 705 which decodes the HD audio codecs. [edit: okay, the top selling speakers are unfit for placement in a prison cell]Yeah, but who are buying those? "top selling" means little if the overall number of units sold is tiny.

Likewise, do the people who buy these screen understand what 1080p is? I bet with you they don't. Everybody I know who has a Flatscreen bought it because it looked good (and I don't talk about the PQ).

There is a very real danger that if the price doesn't come close to DVD (with maybe a $5 premium for HD on the media) you won't see mass penetration.

There IS one thing that the HD DVD group could do: With cheap players now coming, release Shrek and Transformers as Dual only. Same price as the DVD. This way they can get people interested in it, maybe pick up a cheap HD DVD player, see the interactivity and the better PQ/AQ (the latter one really depends on their setup).

Fourth Quarter should be interesting.

Since you asked ... "People just aren't interested in better PQ/AQ as you think they are. How many members here at AVS?"

I've book-marked your quote -- "people just aren't interested in better Pw/Aq?" WTF are you smoking? or being paid to post this total BS???


Do I need to translate this? Read it again.

He is saying its NOT THE ONLY thing people are interested in. Somehow your twisting it to mean people dont care about PQ/AP

Okay, so if TL51gb comes out and is fully usable on HD DVD, Toshiba players get a firmware upgrade to increase read speeds to 1.5x raising the transfer rates you would be favoring HD DVD?

For me, those developments would eliminate the two main concerns I have with the HD-DVD. Furthermore, if blu-ray hadn't got up to its 2.0 profile, HD-DVD would then represent the better format due to its interactivity, so yes, I would favor it. If by then blu-ray had its 2.0 profile, then the whole thing would be about even.

Just out of interest, if profile 2.0 started being widely available, would that change who you favour?

While reading about the cool new T2 ultimate HD DVD and the interactivity, I found that Dynamic HD is exactly what we've been talking about in terms of bringing superb interactive and online experiences for a regular person owning just an HD DVD player.

One word. Awesome!

One word: WOW! :eek::)

For me, those developments would eliminate the two main concerns I have with the HD-DVD. Furthermore, if blu-ray hadn't got up to its 2.0 profile, HD-DVD would then represent the better format due to its interactivity, so yes, I would favor it. If by then blu-ray had its 2.0 profile, then the whole thing would be about even.

Just out of interest, if profile 2.0 started being widely available, would that change who you favour?

Let's put it this way, if Blu-Ray gave me everything HD DVD is giving and had bigger capacity with CE support it has now and is the same price as HD DVD, yes. For me personally the price wouldn't be such a problem to begin with (unless it's like $1000 for a basic player). However why I prefer about HD DVD is because I was raised not to watch only my own ass and I support what's better for the consumer and what gives more value.

If Blu-Ray matched that, I wouldn't have a problem. But in general, I would still have a problem with manufacturing as it would mean that we as consumers would have to suffer the costs of maturing.

Fortunately with HD DVD, the prices we pay now will go down much faster as there are not issues in manufacturing. This is where competition goes in. It lowers the price. But if you technically can't lower the costs of production then you can have as much competition as you want but the lowest price would still be high.

I'm not sure if I'm clear?

I'm not sure if I'm clear?

I think you explained your stance fine. I tend to disagree somewhat but I can also see where you're coming from and its a valid standpoint.

At the moment I see blu-ray as having the best chance of providing high quality quality video, audio and (eventually) interactive features all at once. Whereas I think its less certain that HD-DVD will be able to provide the highest quality in all three departments on the same disk.

The manufacturing issue is an important point but its hard to know hows its going to play out as there doesn't seem to be clear information available as to the respective costs. Blu-ray does seem to cost more to manufacture but because the tech with blu-ray is newer, its costs should decrease more quickly. Whether this ends up equalising costs, I think time will tell.

I don't see either format as delivering "it all" at the moment but I see blu-ray as having the best chance of ending up providing the best value.

I think you explained your stance fine. I tend to disagree somewhat but I can also see where you're coming from and its a valid standpoint.

At the moment I see blu-ray as having the best chance of providing high quality quality video, audio and (eventually) interactive features all at once. Whereas I think its less certain that HD-DVD will be able to provide the highest quality in all three departments on the same disk.

The manufacturing issue is an important point but its hard to know hows its going to play out as there doesn't seem to be clear information available as to the respective costs. Blu-ray does seem to cost more to manufacture but because the tech with blu-ray is newer, its costs should decrease more quickly. Whether this ends up equalising costs, I think time will tell.

I don't see either format as delivering "it all" at the moment but I see blu-ray as having the best chance of ending up providing the best value.

When? A year from now? Why wait? HD DVD has it all now. At a substantially lower entry price point than BD.

No thanks. I'll stick with my "obsolete" player. Image and audio quality is more important than gimmicks. I don't need company shills telling me that I need interactivity.

I've said it before, 'you never miss what you never have had at all...'

Go ahead and stick with your OVERPRICED and "obsolete" player. HD DVD owners will enjoy the same great picture and audio quality along with all the interactive features you can never enjoy, and future Blu Ray owners have to wait months, years, or forever for...

Oh, and the HD DVD owners will play half or less for the player too. (Ain't that a kick in the nuts...)

Sure looks like WebTV. ;)

The webTV guys finally found a 2nd purpose in life. The same style of GUI from that microsoft acquisition is dusted off it lives! ;)
Otoh, Internet Explorer on windows is still quite a distance ahead, so this thing about selling ringtones or t-shirts are much more natural on a laptop. At least on a PC, you don't have to scratch your head on how to get the downloaded music onto your ipod.

Let's put it this way, if Blu-Ray gave me everything HD DVD is giving and had bigger capacity with CE support it has now and is the same price as HD DVD, yes. For me personally the price wouldn't be such a problem to begin with (unless it's like $1000 for a basic player). However why I prefer about HD DVD is because I was raised not to watch only my own ass and I support what's better for the consumer and what gives more value.

If Blu-Ray matched that, I wouldn't have a problem. But in general, I would still have a problem with manufacturing as it would mean that we as consumers would have to suffer the costs of maturing.

Fortunately with HD DVD, the prices we pay now will go down much faster as there are not issues in manufacturing. This is where competition goes in. It lowers the price. But if you technically can't lower the costs of production then you can have as much competition as you want but the lowest price would still be high.

I'm not sure if I'm clear?

This is exactly how I feel. I'm an engineer in R&D and have seen firsthand how manufacturing costs, regardless of the product, gets passed onto the consumer. One only has to look at the overall cost and see where and how the consumer will ultimately benefit. We are the consumers and should be interested in yields, production efficiency as well as the usual (sales).

I think the only major price cut I would like to see now is on the combo DVD/HD DVD disks but since people on average buy new releases in DVD for about $20, you'ld obviously have to be a little more than that. I think a combo disk would be perfectly priced at $25, but not the current prices of $30-40.

If you're going to spend less than $2K total for a display, receiver, and speakers; you're not going to notice a difference between either format and standard DVD, if you're spending more than that all players are reasonably priced.
What a complete load of crap.

My parents have a $1000 46" HDTV, a $360 Onkyo 605, $300 worth of speakers (including subwoofer). Total of $1660

My Father In Law has a $1400 51" HDTV and a $250 Logitech speaker set. Total of $1650.

Both picked up the HD-A2 for $200, and both notice a MASSIVE improvement in both picture and sound between it and SD DVD. Which actually brings me to a kinda funny story. After a year or two of prodding, my parents finally got an HD DVR ~6 months ago. 2 days after getting it installed, I was talking to them, and my mom said she wasn't all that impressed. The HD channels looked maybe a HAIR sharper, and the colors were a bit better, but not worth the investment. The next day I was visiting and found out the installer had left the receiver set to 480p stretch. Switched the output to 1080i, and the response was an instant "HOLY ****!"

Now they hardly watch anything in SD anymore, and the HD DVD player was an easy sell. Once they saw that, they stopped buying SD DVDs because the difference is so huge.

The flipside is also crap. I have over $10,000 invested in my home theater (not a lot on this site, I realize. :)), and the price of the player (HD-A1 in my case) was still an important factor. I was able to get a player with complete specs capable of equal or (at the time, particularly) significantly better quality movie presentation, for much less money. Furthermore, should it turn out that I chose "wrongly" and have to replace my player with a combo next year or the year after so I can continue to get new releases, I STILL will have spent less than had I bought into Blu-Ray to begin with. The same is true of people who are just jumping in now.

Back on the thread topic, did I miss Lionsgate announcing neutrality? EDIT: nevermind, I see that the .com redirects to a .de, and these are German releases.

New to the forums and these discussions, and I have just stepped into the HD realm about a month ago.

This new Dynamic HD is very much a good thing if you ask me, both formats will eventually adopt it, but it looks like HD-DVD is going first.

I don't however, see the logic in saying that the companies will be making you pay again for content, as when is the last time that you bought a DVD and it came with the CD soundtrack of the movie? The only downside would be now I don't get the excercise of walking from my couch to my computer to get the soundtrack. :(

Why wait? HD DVD has it all now.

I think I said in my post that, IMO HD-DVD is not delivering "it all" now.

I think I said in my post that, IMO HD-DVD is not delivering "it all" now.

Well it is YOUR opinion and you are definitely entitled to it. Just don't expect all to agree with it though.;)

Well it is YOUR opinion and you are definitely entitled to it. Just don't expect all to agree with it though.;)

Yes my opinion is... my opinion.

A year from now? Why wait? HD DVD has it all now.

That is - in your opinion it will be a year from now and in your opinion HD DVD has it all now.

People should look at both sides and make their own mind up. If they come to a different conclusion than me, I'm not staying awake at night worrying about it, at least they have thought about it - I am completely happy with what I have at the moment (ok, I want a better tv but thats by the by) and they can be completely happy with what they have - be it HD-DVD, blu-ray, SD-DVD, LD, VHS, oh I don't know 16mm film prints...

I guess you never read PS3 EULA? Just read it slowly and get ready to be stunned. They monitor EVERYTHING. The games you might play if there were any good ones, the movies you will watch because the PS3 is designed as a BR player first and foremost etc etc.

Fixed for accuracy.:D

+1

Yea, funny how you get people that need to chime in "This sucks". Funny, most seem to be from the BD side.

because they're 12

That is - in your opinion it will be a year from now and in your opinion HD DVD has it all now.

People should look at both sides and make their own mind up. If they come to a different conclusion than me, I'm not staying awake at night worrying about it, at least they have thought about it - I am completely happy with what I have at the moment (ok, I want a better tv but thats by the by) and they can be completely happy with what they have - be it HD-DVD, blu-ray, SD-DVD, LD, VHS, oh I don't know 16mm film prints...

HD DVD has movies with:

1. HD - 1920x1080
2. HD Audio
3. DS PIP
4. Web Enable
5. DS Audio
6. Fancy Menu's

Missing anything? maybe 24P? On the way should see it released in next few weeks.

So what is HD DVD missing?

Just the movie with great PQ & AQ, that's all.

Amen!