Division over next-generation DVDs deepening

Three pages to the article.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyid=2007-09-03T135944Z_01_N23255334_RTRUKOC_0_US-HIGHDEFINITION-WAR.xml

Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG Inc signed exclusivity deals to distribute their next-generation discs on Toshiba Corp's HD DVD format for the next 18 months, a move that evened a contest where Sony Corp's Blu-Ray Disc appeared to be pulling ahead.

I'm all for both formats surviving and thriving but I won't waste my time reading any further when they start off with inaccuracies right off the bat. Not only has it been too little time to see if Paramount's move would even up software sales in the format war, the state that Blu-ray appeared to be pulling ahead. Blu-ray has been ahead in software sales for months and just recently took the lead in hardware sales. I'm sorry but that doesn't mean they "appear to be pulling ahead" in my book, it means they're already ahead.

Ignore post.

I think eventually Paramount/DW is gonna have to take matters into their own hands when they finally tire of hearing all this "talk" - if they start delivering with the strong cards they hold (Shrek, Braveheart, Gladiator, etc) then people will give in, shut up and buy the movies....if they dink around and act like there is all the time in the world, then the rumors and talk will never end - the Blu Ray fans boys and blog posters will have plenty of time on their hands to keep circulating the crap-ola. Put those HUGE titles out and they WILL come, simple. What will they do is the question...

Sony's and BDA's chickens are coming to roost (profile, interactivity, disk cost, trojan horse, and perhaps copy protection problems) and unless they are very successful this year we'll see more defections. HD DVD OTOH is on track with full featured low cost players and great interactive AV experiences.

Sony's and BDA's chickens are coming to roost (profile, interactivity, disk cost, trojan horse, and perhaps copy protection problems) and unless they are very successful this year we'll see more defections. HD DVD OTOH is on track with full featured low cost players and great interactive AV experiences.Why don't you add "low bitrate" at the end of the HD DVD feature list?

This is what sums it up for me.

"The more positive development for the industry ... would have been having the Blu-Ray-exclusive studios start releasing on HD DVD," Adams said. "We think ... there's some inevitability that they will have to release in both formats."

Selective quotation ;)
Tom Adams, president of Adams Media Research, said the 18-month period of exclusivity for HD DVDs at the two studios comes during slow but growing sales for the new technology and will have little impact on consumers.

"It was going to be a more sedate transition in our view anyway," Adams said. "That's one reason that a period of exclusivity didn't sound too terrifying to the studios."


The 1.66 billion standard DVD and VHS units sold so far this year dwarf the 3.9 million next-generation discs sold since the format was launched last year.

Preliminary estimates compiled by Adams Media Research show that about 1.5 million U.S. households can play Blu-Ray discs on Sony PlayStations 3 video game machines or dedicated players, versus about 300,000 households whose Microsoft XBoxes or dedicated players are HD DVD compatible.

Sony has dominated high-definition software sales as well, selling twice as many discs as HD DVD in the United States.

Those numbers seem really old, HD DVD hit 300,000 players in the U.S. a few months ago. The PS3 also passed the 1.5 million number a few months ago.

Why don't you add "low bitrate" at the end of the HD DVD feature list?

Do you really think that the average consumer is going to be staring at the bit rate meter on a PS3 saying "oh, look at all the bits honey, This is really a great picture."? :rolleyes:

Do you really think that the average consumer is going to be staring at the bit rate meter on a PS3 saying "oh, look at all the bits honey, This is really a great picture."? :rolleyes:

No, but it's really all they have these days to fall back on, the ol' BDA talking points.

It's a shame that people have to be so bitter and angry over a competing format.

"The more positive development for the industry ... would have been having the Blu-Ray-exclusive studios start releasing on HD DVD," Adams said. "We think ... there's some inevitability that they will have to release in both formats."

Let the consumer decide, of course that would have been too simple. :p

But unfortunately, letting the consumer decide doesn't mean the same thing to the BDA.

"Ok consumer, you need to decide if you want the $499 BD player, the $799 BD player, or the $1000+ BD player".

"Ok consumer, you need to decide if you want to buy your movies on Blu-ray.......or Blu-ray."

I have said this from the beginning. The BDA is scared to death of total neutrality. They are afraid that if all studios were neutral, they wouldn't have a chance. Sony will backup whatever size Brinks truck Disney demands of them to make sure they don't break camp. That's the only way they have a chance to succeed.

just recently took the lead in hardware sales.


Quite simply not true if you are refering to stand alone prices. The figure given at IFA was REVENUE, not units. This has already been shot down numerous times.

Quite simply not true if you are refering to stand alone prices. The figure given at IFA was REVENUE, not units. This has already been shot down numerous times.


You didn't really expect them to do anymore than to grab another talking point, did you? I still get a kick out of the "scratch resistant coating".
I'm not using my DVD's as frisbees. :p

Not sure how the HD DVD fans can remain so optimistic. Despite the Paramount deal, the tide clearly continues to favor Blu-ray. They act like Blu-ray is on it's last leg when all the numbers indicate the death blow is still imminent for HD DVD.

Not sure how the HD DVD fans can remain so optimistic. Despite the Paramount deal, the tide clearly continues to favor Blu-ray. They act like Blu-ray is on it's last leg when all the numbers indicate the death blow is still imminent for HD DVD.


LOL

Uh oh, HDDVD is about to die again:D

LOL

Uh oh, HDDVD is about to die again:D


HD DVD - the ultimate Zombie - kill us - we just keep on coming.:D

"The more positive development for the industry ... would have been having the Blu-Ray-exclusive studios start releasing on HD DVD," Adams said. "We think ... there's some inevitability that they will have to release in both formats."

Hopefully this prediction comes to pass. I'd like to see all movies available.

Why don't you add "low bitrate" at the end of the HD DVD feature list?

lol, if bitrate mattered there would be scores of BD movies better looking than any HD DVD. Not the case.

Man, when I watch the highest rated HDM movie yet, Hot Fuzz, the whole time all I can think about is bitrate.

You didn't really expect them to do anymore than to grab another talking point, did you? I still get a kick out of the "scratch resistant coating".
I'm not using my DVD's as frisbees. :p

Who is them? If my info was incorrect that's one thing but I am not a fanboy of either format. I love 'em both!

You didn't really expect them to do anymore than to grab another talking point, did you? I still get a kick out of the "scratch resistant coating".
I'm not using my DVD's as frisbees. :p

You don't need scratch-coat if your skin is thick enough ;)

Not sure how the HD DVD fans can remain so optimistic. Despite the Paramount deal, the tide clearly continues to favor Blu-ray. They act like Blu-ray is on it's last leg when all the numbers indicate the death blow is still imminent for HD DVD.
"the tide clearly continues to favor Blu-ray".... Yes, clearly. I see that now. Who cares that both formats = 1% of DVD sales? :cool:

"Death blow imminent"...Yes, of course, imminent. How could I have been so blind?

It's all so clear. How could I not see it coming? The writing is surely on the wall. I just didn't see it! :cool:

Thanks, BagMan! It really is that simple! I sure am glad I stumbled on this thread. :D

Not sure how the HD DVD fans can remain so optimistic. Despite the Paramount deal, the tide clearly continues to favor Blu-ray. They act like Blu-ray is on it's last leg when all the numbers indicate the death blow is still imminent for HD DVD.Numbers like $150 (the street price of the forthcoming Chinese players)? $200 (the difference between entry-level HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players)? 2 (for the two major studios that dropped support for Blu-Ray last month)?

Why don't you add "low bitrate" at the end of the HD DVD feature list?

How about "stay on PS3.com"

I know it's rude to comment on the obvious, but has anyone else noticed how the BR fud sounds EXACTLY like gamer smacktalk? Up to and including misinformation and ancient info two years old at least.

"Low bitrate"--like we're talking about SD here.

I'll take a lower bitrate if it means better picture, which thus far it seems to be.:cool:

Not sure how the HD DVD fans can remain so optimistic. Despite the Paramount deal, the tide clearly continues to favor Blu-ray. They act like Blu-ray is on it's last leg when all the numbers indicate the death blow is still imminent for HD DVD.


Neither are favored. HDM is 1% of the market. .6% versus .4%, lol. The death blow is imminent for HDM.

I'm all for both formats surviving and thriving but I won't waste my time reading any further when they start off with inaccuracies right off the bat. Not only has it been too little time to see if Paramount's move would even up software sales in the format war, the state that Blu-ray appeared to be pulling ahead. Blu-ray has been ahead in software sales for months and just recently took the lead in hardware sales. I'm sorry but that doesn't mean they "appear to be pulling ahead" in my book, it means they're already ahead.

As was mentioned in the insiders forum, the BDA wasn't talking numbers of players sold. They were talking about how much money the consumer spent to buy those players.

As was mentioned in the insiders forum, the BDA wasn't talking numbers of players sold. They were talking about how much money the consumer spent to buy those players.

Thanks for the clarification. I haven't read much of the Insiders thread. My bad.

Not sure how the HD DVD fans can remain so optimistic. Despite the Paramount deal, the tide clearly continues to favor Blu-ray. They act like Blu-ray is on it's last leg when all the numbers indicate the death blow is still imminent for HD DVD.Yeah, like Apple :rolleyes:

Seriously though, we'll see who has to lick their wounds and who is standing on top of the hill after Christmas, if there is another defection out of the Blu-Ray camp it won't happen before Christmas, if HD DVD sells a tons of players and software during that period (and Warner will be the one who is pretty much going to referee this thing) Disney and Fox may consider to "move over".

Essentially it comes down to how well Transformers, Shrek, Ratatoulle and Pirates are going to sell.

Today I was in a local electronics store and I noticed an older couple looking at the HD DVD titles and I gathered from their conversation that they assumed the HD DVD titles were just some new kind of DVD. I asked them if they had an HD DVD player and they responded that they had a DVD player and a HDTV and assumed that these discs would work on their equipment. Informed them that neither the HD DVD or Blu-ray titles on display would playback on their current DVD player and that HD DVD titles required a player with the HD DVD logo.

After hearing that they were not compatible with his current setup, the man then said that he heard blu-ray was better anyway. :)

This situation illustrates how the HD DVD marketing and logo feeds on confusion of the average consumer.

In reality, other than having a similar manufacturing process for the media, HD DVD has more in common with Blu-ray than it does DVD but because of the logo and the lack of warnings about not being playable on DVD players, some people may be tricked into purchasing first titles that they cannot play back on their DVD players and then subsequently tricked again into buying an HD DVD player.

Those combo discs only further serve to confuse the situation for the average consumer.

Interestingly enough, the Blu-ray section displays a warning that these discs will not play back on a DVD player while no warning appears above the HD DVD rack.

Aristotles,

Anecdotal evidence is interesting and all but useless. Obviously, you would have said if they bought BD -- by your omission, I'll guess that they did not.

Aristotles,

Anecdotal evidence is interesting and all but useless. Obviously, you would have said if they bought BD -- by your omission, I'll guess that they did not.
They only had a DVD player.

And you have a point about anecdotal evidence. Perhaps some research group should conduct studies to see if a lot of people are under the impression that their DVD player can play HD DVD? Then we will see whether or not Aristotles is right about the confusion with DVD in the name "HD DVD."

This is how it works: Go to store, see HD DVD title. Think it will play on your SD upconverting DVD player. Go home, put the disk in....and no luck. Return to store and you are told both HD formats require new players. Check out an HD DVD player for $199 and BD Player for $499...since you already have a disk....if you are still interested in HD movies, guess which unit you will pick up?

.....

In reality, other than having a similar manufacturing process for the media, HD DVD has more in common with Blu-ray than it does DVD but because of the logo and the lack of warnings about not being playable on DVD players, some people may be tricked into purchasing first titles that they cannot play back on their DVD players and then subsequently tricked again into buying an HD DVD player.

Those combo discs only further serve to confuse the situation for the average consumer.

Interestingly enough, the Blu-ray section displays a warning that these discs will not play back on a DVD player while no warning appears above the HD DVD rack.

Isn't there a sticker on the packaging for every disc that says "For use only with (HD DVD/Blu-Ray Disc) players and drives"? If people can't read then they probably can't afford a high definition disc player either.

Isn't there a sticker on the packaging for every disc that says "For use only with (HD DVD/Blu-Ray Disc) players and drives"? If people can't read then they probably can't afford a high definition disc player either.

Not present when you order online - only in a B&M store.

Isn't there a sticker on the packaging for every disc that says "For use only with (HD DVD/Blu-Ray Disc) players and drives"? If people can't read then they probably can't afford a high definition disc player either.

It's not that simple, a lot of people tear open the packages and won't read. When was the last time you read the manual or the EULA when you installed a sw on a PC? Does anyone even look at a box to see if it 'might' be a MAC software instead of windows?

The more money you have, the shorter your attention span on these silly little things like instructions.

Not present when you order online - only in a B&M store.

The situation I was actually referring to was the people looking around in the electronics store thinking that HD DVDs would work on their current DVD player. Those discs should have been labeled accordingly.

DVD Empire does have the following disclaimers:

This is an HD-DVD made for HD-DVD Blue-Laser Format players which produce higher quality picture and sound.

This is a Blu-Ray disc made for Blue-laser Format players which produce higher quality picture and sound.

However, I didn't notice any sort of notations on Amazon or Bestbuy.com. You're right though, all online retailers should make if perfectly clear what type of device will be needed to play next gen discs.

The situation I was actually referring to was the people looking around in the electronics store thinking that HD DVDs would work on their current DVD player. Those discs should have been labeled accordingly.

DVD Empire does have the following disclaimers:

This is an HD-DVD made for HD-DVD Blue-Laser Format players which produce higher quality picture and sound.

This is a Blu-Ray disc made for Blue-laser Format players which produce higher quality picture and sound.

However, I didn't notice any sort of notations on Amazon or Bestbuy.com. You're right though, all online retailers should make if perfectly clear what type of device will be needed to play next gen discs.


Unfortunately for both formats and perhaps even future formats- allowing manufacturers to label DVD players as "HD" has seriously hurt the chances of any true HD products. "HD" is now just a marketing term meaning anything anyone wants it to mean-

It is going to take a considerable amount of time and education at the consumer level to correct this marketing issue- I wish both sides good luck on this task.....

Oncest, I had to cut a man in a barfight over HDM. :mad:

Today I was in a local electronics store and I noticed an older couple looking at the HD DVD titles and I gathered from their conversation that they assumed the HD DVD titles were just some new kind of DVD. I asked them if they had an HD DVD player and they responded that they had a DVD player and a HDTV and assumed that these discs would work on their equipment. Informed them that neither the HD DVD or Blu-ray titles on display would playback on their current DVD player and that HD DVD titles required a player with the HD DVD logo.

After hearing that they were not compatible with his current setup, the man then said that he heard blu-ray was better anyway. :)

This situation illustrates how the HD DVD marketing and logo feeds on confusion of the average consumer.

In reality, other than having a similar manufacturing process for the media, HD DVD has more in common with Blu-ray than it does DVD but because of the logo and the lack of warnings about not being playable on DVD players, some people may be tricked into purchasing first titles that they cannot play back on their DVD players and then subsequently tricked again into buying an HD DVD player.

Those combo discs only further serve to confuse the situation for the average consumer.

Interestingly enough, the Blu-ray section displays a warning that these discs will not play back on a DVD player while no warning appears above the HD DVD rack.

rofl, despite being 100% fictional, the above post shows the lack of scientific process your average Blu-it-ray supporter has...

I noticed at my retailer, on the DVD rack, there was no mention that they would not playback in my CD player.

I'm so confused....

Aristotles,

Anecdotal evidence is interesting and all but useless. Obviously, you would have said if they bought BD -- by your omission, I'll guess that they did not.

They probably bought a DVD title as it appeared that they had not jumped into the HD Media arena yet but the man was leaning towards blu-ray. I said nothing to push him in that direction other than explaining what HD DVD was and what was required to play back and briefly mentioning that neither HD DVD or Blu-ray titles would playback on a regular DVD player.

You seem to be blinded a bit by your format partisanship to not see that the name and logo of HD DVD is a bit deceptive and can easily confuse the average consumer. That confusion present in the market place is the whole point of my anecdote and it is not an isolated incident. People in general do not like to be fooled with and I sense that Toshiba's strategy of trying to tie in with the popularity of DVD is beginning to backfire.

Neither you or me are average consumers and because of that it can be difficult to place ourselves in the shoes of the average Joe. I think my experience working in technical support in the past has made it easier for me to see what the average Joe sees. I also believe this ability has made me a better software developer.

rofl, despite being 100% fictional, the above post shows the lack of scientific process your average Blu-it-ray supporter has...
Are you calling me a liar? I'm tempted to report that post. Not only are you accusing me of being a liar but you are questioning my intellectual capacity solely on the basis of my chosen format.

My chosen format is technically superior by virtue of its capacity and maximum bandwidth.

Isn't there a sticker on the packaging for every disc that says "For use only with (HD DVD/Blu-Ray Disc) players and drives"? If people can't read then they probably can't afford a high definition disc player either.
The problem is that people do not look too closely at such things and it is up to the studio to decide whether to include that sticker.

I'm suggesting that the shelving logo cap or top of an end cap display should clearly state below the logo that HD DVD content will not display on regular DVD players.

The store that I went to did not have an official Blu-ray cap for the blu-ray section but they made their own sign saying "blu-ray titles do not work in a regular DVD player".

I got the impression that the store was kind of HD DVD leaning because of that. I wish that they had done the same for the HD DVD section as it would have prevented my anecdote from occurring.