When will we be seeing DD 7.1 True HD and DTS HD Master on high definition DVDs?

In consideration of purchasing high def DVD players, I took a close look at the current titles and found none with discrete 7.1 in the two new high def formats and only found a few in True HD 5.1 while many were in generic discrete lossless 5.1.

ALSO, when looking at the specs on the HD-DVD and BD players that were available, there were no specs on them providing discrete 7.1 in the DD and DTS lossless modes -- there seemed to be an emphasis on 1080P 24 frame video, but a de-emphasis on the 7.1 high definition lossless surrond modes.

I am wondering WHEN we can expect to see players as well as media with 7.1 DD True HD and DTS HD Master sound tracks?

Thoughts/opinions??

MikeSp

Please tell me which movie had a 7.1 soundtrack?

Either Paidgeek or Penton-man said over at BR.com some time ago that the the majority of movies still are not created with 7.1 audio, hence there's no 7.1 audio track available to put onto disc.

When will we be seeing DD 7.1 True HD and DTS HD Master on high definition DVDs?

In consideration of purchasing high def DVD players, I took a close look at the current titles and found none with discrete 7.1 in the two new high def formats and only found a few in True HD 5.1 while many were in generic discrete lossless 5.1.

ALSO, when looking at the specs on the HD-DVD and BD players that were available, there were no specs on them providing discrete 7.1 in the DD and DTS lossless modes -- there seemed to be an emphasis on 1080P 24 frame video, but a de-emphasis on the 7.1 high definition lossless surrond modes.

I am wondering WHEN we can expect to see players as well as media with 7.1 DD True HD and DTS HD Master sound tracks?

Thoughts/opinions??

MikeSp

Well, they have to be mixed in 7.1 first ...

Please tell me which movie had a 7.1 soundtrack?

Sorry -- with my aging sieve-like memory, I do not recall which title had a discrete 7.1 sound track -- I looked at too many titles to recall, but think it was only that--discrete 7.1 via PCM -- not over HDMI (whatever the title).

Mike

isnt that new german terminator HD DVD going to have 7.1?

Doctor Strange (DTS-MA) and Van Wilder (PCM) have uncompressed 7.1 on BD...

If the DVD producers can take a movie soundtrack that was originally mono or stereo and produce a DVD with 5.1 sound, they can make anything 7.1 (on the disk). It doesn't necessarily constitute an improvement, but in the ongoing interest of luring us into double/triple/etc. dipping, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to start seeing a number of titles released with "7.1" sound. :)

Sorry -- with my aging sieve-like memory, I do not recall which title had a discrete 7.1 sound track -- I looked at too many titles to recall, but think it was only that--discrete 7.1 via PCM -- not over HDMI (whatever the title).Not sure I understand. What do you mean, via PCM, but not HDMI? HDMI handles uncompressed PCM. That's how the PS3 does all of the PCM and TrueHD tracks, by decoding (in the case of TrueHD) to PCM; then transmitting over HDMI.

If the DVD producers can take a movie soundtrack that was originally mono or stereo and produce a DVD with 5.1 sound, they can make anything 7.1 (on the disk). It doesn't necessarily constitute an improvement, but in the ongoing interest of luring us into double/triple/etc. dipping, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to start seeing a number of titles released with "7.1" sound. :)

This DOES sound like what will become a ploy by the studios to re-release high def titles in 7.1 DD and DTS high def surround after the players and receivers/pre-pros start processing those HD audio formats -- first we get them in high def video and later in high def lossless 7.1 audio.

Mike

Not sure I understand. What do you mean, via PCM, but not HDMI? HDMI handles uncompressed PCM. That's how the PS3 does all of the PCM and TrueHD tracks, by decoding (in the case of TrueHD) to PCM; then transmitting over HDMI.

I probably mis-stated the method of transmission -- but I assumed that all HD 7.1 lossless HD audio would be via HDMI whereas in today's high def DVD players, the surround sound can be transmitted via Toslink or digital coax. Somebody set me straight if I am offtrack here -- am trying to grasp WHEN I can obtain high def DVD players for my 7.1 surround system that actually output lossless DD True HD and DTS HD Master 7.1 via 1.3a HDMI.

Mike

As far as 7.1 titles - I believe the 3 Lionsgate cartoon titles (marvel) are 7.1.

Waiting Blu-ray has 7.1, as well, as does Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence

Ultimate Avengers blu has it

I probably mis-stated the method of transmission -- but I assumed that all HD 7.1 lossless HD audio would be via HDMI whereas in today's high def DVD players, the surround sound can be transmitted via Toslink or digital coax. Somebody set me straight if I am offtrack here -- am trying to grasp WHEN I can obtain high def DVD players for my 7.1 surround system that actually output lossless DD True HD and DTS HD Master 7.1 via 1.3a HDMI.Oh, OK. Well, today's HDM players (both flavors) cannot transmit any lossless codecs (decoded or otherwise) via tolink or digital coax, only HMDI or 5.1 (or 7.1, if the player has them) analog outputs. As far as when you can get a HDM player that will output DD trueHD, well you can do that right now, just that it has to be decoded in the player currently. Bitstream output for off-base (receiver) decoding should be coming in the upcoming players from both sides; though there are some complications depending on how certain discs are authored (for HD DVD) which I have read they are planning on working around. Player decoding of DTS-MA has not been confirmed with an announced date for either format, for whatever reason (there have been announcements referring to "future firmware updates").

Weeds season 2 on Blu Ray has 7.1ch sound.........

Weeds season 2 on Blu Ray has 7.1ch sound.........

"Weeds" is a pretty whacked out (and hilarious) TV series. The 7.1 didn't do me any good, my player only has 5.1 analog outputs and I'm only using five speakers and a 5.1 MC analog preamp. :eek:

Also 7.1 lossless just aggravates the bandwidth/storage limitation issues with a certain format. :D

I noticed alot of talk of how DVD's look better on so and so's TV then whats being represented here well do you sit this close to your TV when watching a DVD? I bet you dont go pop a DVD in and sit as close to the screen as you do with your computer.

Either Paidgeek or Penton-man said over at BR.com some time ago that the the majority of movies still are not created with 7.1 audio, hence there's no 7.1 audio track available to put onto disc.

Most audio tracks for a theatrical release of a film are 5.1. There have been some 8 channel SDDS (Sony Dynamic Digital Sound) soundtracks (for a list see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_8_channel_SDDS_films but these are actually in a different speaker configuration to the 7.1 sound on the optical formats.

Either way, a film's soundtrack would require re-mixing for a 7.1 track which is probably going to limit the number of such tracks.

There have been 5.1 movies - TONS - 3 screen channels, 2 surround channels and a LFE channel

There have been a few 6.1 Movies - 3 screen channels, a LS, RS and a BS (back surround) with an LFE channel

There are NO 7.1 channel movies. Where will the 7th channel go? 2 BS channels?

7.1 is a marketing attempt from the CEM's to sell more expensive receivers and 2 additional speakers . . . IMO. It's a gimmick plain and simple.

The only films to use a 7.1 setup are IMAX films where they use 4 screen channels, 3 surround channels and a LFE channel

People who watch TV/ movies through TV speakers: ALOT
People who watch 5.1 from HTIB: ALOT LESS THAN ABOVE
People who watch 5.1 in a high quality system: ALOT LESS THAN ABOVE
People who watch 7.1: THE LEAST


I would love 7.1 on all movies. But it is hard to see this happening on all discs.

People who watch TV/ movies through TV speakers: ALOT
People who watch 5.1 from HTIB: ALOT LESS THAN ABOVE
People who watch 5.1 in a high quality system: ALOT LESS THAN ABOVE
People who watch 7.1: THE LEAST


I would love 7.1 on all movies. But it is hard to see this happening on all discs.

But where is the info coming from? What about the supporters of Lossless Audio? "Hear what the soundtrack creators heard."

There are NO 7.1 soundtracks. So ANY 7.1 HDM is something that is created not from the original movie soundtrack.

Chase Surround anyone?

Colorized B & W films anyone?

There have been 5.1 movies - TONS - 3 screen channels, 2 surround channels and a LFE channel

There have been a few 6.1 Movies - 3 screen channels, a LS, RS and a BS (back surround) with an LFE channel

There are NO 7.1 channel movies. Where will the 7th channel go? 2 BS channels?

7.1 is a marketing attempt from the CEM's to sell more expensive receivers and 2 additional speakers . . . IMO. It's a gimmick plain and simple.

The only films to use a 7.1 setup are IMAX films where they use 4 screen channels, 3 surround channels and a LFE channel

House of a 1000 Corpses will have 7.1 PCM track.

Oh and don't worry about Lee Stewart's posts, he would be happy if everyone had VHS 2.0. Also see Woodshed's last post. There always has to be a small amount of people to ring in the new technology, we call them early adopters. We are the reason you can now buy a LCD 40" TV for less than $1500.00 . Just because the masses don't currently do it does not mean it should not be done! Otherwise we could still be listening to 8-track tapes.:p

Lastly MikeSp click on my sigs if you want some good research.

Here's the interesting thing.
DD and DDex,DTS and DTS ES soundtracks are mixed for the theaters.

For DVD we get a more COMPRESSED version to fit on the disc.Sometimes its "tweaked" for the home, but not a whole new mix.

No one is mixing 7.1 soundtracks for film unless its SOny's SDDS:

"Stands for "Sony Dynamic Digital Sound". This sound system is capable of reproducing sound in two configurations. One with 8 distinct channels of sound. Left, Center-Left, Center, Center-Right and Right channels behind the screen. Left and Right surround channels, plus a low frequency channel for special effects, like explosions, etc...

The other has 6 distinct channels of sound. Left, Center and Right channels behind the screen. Left and Right surround channels, plus a low frequency channel for special effects, like explosions, etc...

Most installations use the 6-channel configuration. The 8-channel configuration is used only when the screen is large enough to handle the additional speakers between the screen. These 6 or 8 channels of sound are encoded into a code that is printed onto the film stock. Similar to the Dolby system, there is no external CD player required. A special reader is mounted to the film projector that reads this code, converts it to sound we can hear and passes it to the amplifiers.

For those techies out there, the codes are printed onto the film stock outside the sprocket holes on both sides"

So with the new formats on HD and Blu Ray. I guess an attempt has been made to make available a less compressed version of the original DD and DTS soundtracks originally mixed for theaters.

I would have to check up on it in MIX magazine or somewhere but I dont think anyone is mixing movie soundtracks in 7.1 or DTS MA or DD True HD. What you are getting is a modified port of the original 5.1 or 6.1 DD or DTS MIX .And of course the originals dont have the same data compression to fit on the film strip. They do that to fit them on disc. I imagine DD and DTS are trying to get closer to the original compression ratios in these new formats.

Mixes with 7.1 would have to be done just for the home us since there is little or no theater support for it yet.

House of a 1000 Corpses will have 7.1 PCM track.

Did the theater presentation have a 7.1 mix?

Oh and don't worry about Lee Stewart's posts, he would be happy if everyone had VHS 2.0. Also see Woodshed's last post. There always has to be a small amount of people to ring in the new technology, we call them early adopters. We are the reason you can now buy a LCD 40" TV for less than $1500.00 . Just because the masses don't currently do it does not mean it should not be done! Otherwise we could still be listening to 8-track tapes.:p

Hey BOY . . .I have had HDTV since 1999 . . . how about you? I have been listening to DD5.1 since 1995 - How about you?

I would prefer more 6.1 & 7.1 tracks be made available by both formats. I see to much fuss being made over whether a title has a lossless track or not when in reality most of us probably wouldnt even notice the difference. Now is the time when formats are listening to early adopters so now is the time that more should be requesting these audio options.

Hey BOY . . .I have had HDTV since 1999 . . . how about you? I have been listening to DD5.1 since 1995 - How about you?

Hey BOY?(don't really know what your name calling does but keep it up:rolleyes: ). . .1998 or 1999(Sony VPH-1272) so same and DD5.1 probably 1994-95 not sure when did the first LD w/ AC-3 (Clear and Present Danger)come out?

I'm referring to your nonsensical cheer leading for HDDVD's lack of producing any real amount of PCM/Lossless tracks and being OK with getting fed DD,DTS,DD+.
Someone metioned that you don't even have the capability to listen to HD audio, now I don't know if that was a lie or not but if it is true you really should not say anything in terms of what sounds better or what is OK for HDM.

I'm just glad they can use it for PS3 games.

It really gives a greater sense of depth and pulling you into the experience.

Hairspray 7.1 DTS-MA !!
3:10 to Yuma 7.1 PCM
Looks like it's happening mostly on Blu-ray.

Are there any TrueHD 7.1 titles out or in the planning phase??

I too want to see more films use 7.1 on both formats. I love to hear my back surround speakers put to use. Even more 6.1 would be welcome. If you are interested in good 6.1 sound, check out the movie with Ben Kingsley playing a magician (Can't remember title). It's not a great movie, but the surround sounds are excellent. Also for plain 5.1 check out "Little Otik." It's a foreign film about a couple who want a baby badly but the wife can't produce. She goes out to a forrest and gets a piece of three that has limbs that match a human and some how it comes alive. I won't give any more away on the plot but the surround sound is one of the best. I liked that even when the scene moved indoors the surround sound is always constant in conveying out door sounds. It has the most constant surround sound of any movie I've heard. Some may say it's overdone but I liked it very much.

Hairspray 7.1 DTS-MA !!
3:10 to Yuma 7.1 PCM
Looks like it's happening mostly on Blu-ray.

Are there any TrueHD 7.1 titles out or in the planning phase??

'Hairspray' 7.1 DTS-MA is also an HD DVD title.:p

'Pan's Lybarinth' and 'Rush Hour 3' will both also have a 7.1 DTS-MA track.

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now i got the ps3 so i could enjoy movies and games, the hole point of hi def is to enjoy the hidef picture and HI DEF sound. I have the onkyo 805, however i cant enjoy my rush hour 3 with 7.1. i even set the ps3 to send bitstream instead of pcm so that my receiver can decode it , but nope only send in multi channel and doesnt even send anything to the speakers #6 and 7. i never get those speakers to light up on the receiver even when i am playing a differ movie with dd + or dex or dttrue hd which are supposed to have 6 channels. i have all my settings correct. does anyone know why i have this problem.
Bottom line if you dont get the hidef sound your only getting half of the benefit of blue ray movies. any suggestion how to fix my problem?

I cant enjoy any sound in the rear two speakers # 6,7 except when watching tv where i have it set to neural audio 7.1, then those speakers on the display light up.

i also have an hd dvd but it only sent out sound in pcm, but on my ps3 the setting shows that i can send it in bit stream, so my recvr should do the decoding, but i get nothing other thean dobly on the display, Spider man 3 has dolby true hd, my display doent show d true dhd just dolby?

i have highly tech question, van anyone give me suggestions on how to get these questions answeered.

P.s also have the samsung blu ray from costco, that one send out in bitstream or pcm and your supposed to get it sent out in true form an my display on recvr should show d true hd or dts hd, havnt tried it yet, the playre is going back crappy and with software 1.1 not compatible or upgradeable to 1.2 whitch is the new blue ray format- so u can enjoy the xtras

please help.

Well i spent time hooking up my costco samsung blu ray that im going to return, this sys allows bit stream pass through, Playing on my onkyo 805 with rush hour 3 in 7.1 dts hd ma sounde good. i got all 7 channels. the ps3 is not capable of sending 7.1 ch on pcm, only 5.1 sorry. Sounded much better with the samsung than from ps3. I only hope that ps3 has some kind of update to allow bitstream pass thorugh, only then will we get true 7.1.

kitkat99 double posted, questions answered here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=945184

Well i spent time hooking up my costco samsung blu ray that im going to return, this sys allows bit stream pass through, Playing on my onkyo 805 with rush hour 3 in 7.1 dts hd ma sounde good. i got all 7 channels. the ps3 is not capable of sending 7.1 ch on pcm, only 5.1 sorry. Sounded much better with the samsung than from ps3. I only hope that ps3 has some kind of update to allow bitstream pass thorugh, only then will we get true 7.1.

The PS3 can't decode DTS HD MA and evidently it cant pass it on to the receiver for decoding either. I am pretty sure it can send 7.1 but it has to be decoded first so PCM and Dolby True HD would work.

I have to wonder how gung-ho studios are going to get with 7.1, just for the fact that most people, who don't have dedicated HT rooms, are reluctant or unable to add two more speakers in their living rooms. Most people I know don't even have 5.1, mostly for aesthetic reasons...And yes, it's mostly because of the wife factor. :)

M

i think things are changing it seems that now its 2008 ive herd of more out now in 7.1, WAR sounded awesome in true 7.1 it was pcm but nice

If you could get the engineers and mixers who did Black Hawk Down and/or Master and Commander to do true 24 bit (96 kHz), 7.1 mixes (with stereo sides and back surround channels) we'd have a new growth industry in audio posting for home video!

uncompressed 7.1 channel audio is one of the biggest reasons I went blu (since they both do 1080P vid). It's rare right now but catching some steam. I don't think any HD-DVD titles have it, probably cannot fit on the disk...

Nonethless, I start to salivate a little when I see 7.1 uncompressed in the audio setup options, then I grin and seat-belt myself to my theater chair!! :D

uncompressed 7.1 channel audio is one of the biggest reasons I went blu (since they both do 1080P vid). It's rare right now but catching some steam. I don't think any HD-DVD titles have it, probably cannot fit on the disk...

Nice :D Did you think of that one all by yourself?

Nonethless, I start to salivate a little when I see 7.1 uncompressed in the audio setup options, then I grin and seat-belt myself to my theater chair!! :D

When I want uncompressed 7.1, I just turn on DPLIIx.

Otherwise we could still be listening to 8-track tapes.:p

Naw we would be listening to the original Edison Cylinders. Or maybe we could have progressed to 78 RPM discs. Not vinyl either. :D:D