I know that this is the wrong forum to be posing format neutral questions, but what the heck...

I am supporting both Blu-ray and HD DVD with player and media purchases. Is there a point when we will know that neither "loses," and both "win?"

I would say when you see a lot more DF players announced, and Disney goes neutral.

HDM would also have to snap-up 20% of the market, rather than 3%.

That point has been reached.

HD DVD is here to stay, now - and Dual Format players will become more and more common now.

I would say when you see a lot more DF players announced, and Disney goes neutral.

HDM would also have to snap-up 20% of the market, rather than 3%.
I like your second point about market share, but why is Disney going neutral important if lots of DF players get announced?

Agreed on the DF players.

For me, I like the fact my HD-A2 plays HD DVD and my eventual PS3 (will buy within 6 months) will be my BD player.

Maybe if the new place has the nice space for an entertainment room, i'll gladly upgrade to a better DF player

That point has been reached.

HD DVD is here to stay, now - and Dual Format players will become more and more common now.
So, are you saying that we have already reached the point where you think that both will win? In other words -- both will survive and prosper?

The world may never know...

I believe that point has already passed.

Existing does not equal winning.

YOU win when YOU'RE happy with the selection of HiDef movies on your shelf at home to choose from, way I see it anyway. At this point in the war, neither side seems to be budging, and I don't have a problem with that because the content is continuing to come....as long as I can keep beefing up my selection with great movies, especially all of my personal fav's, then I'll be happy, after that, I wish the formats the best of luck, but I'd personally be set. If someday down the line one side actually starts putting out a bunch of stuff that I really wan't but is unavail on my format, I'd simply add a player and continue on, the hardware prices are only gonna drop, making that an easy, easy option, then again, I may not have to, who knows, but the way technology accelerates, neither format is gonna have as long a life span as dvd, so who cares - we'll have our pretty 1080p collection of movies, something that might not be bested for a looong time. =)

The first company that will be able to do an affordable DF player will be the winner.

How hard can it be?

Every movie on top 20 boxoffice list and my list released on either formats, then that is a win scenario for me.

I'm talking : StarWars set, Alien set, Indiana Jones set, Back to the Future set, Gone With the Wind, Lawrence of Arabia, Spielberg Classics, SaturdayNightFever, Grease, and a whole bunch of 'other' movies released on HDM.

After my list is filled, both formats can ride off into the sunset for all I care, I'm in it for the movies, and I want them now, not 18 months from now.

If by "win" you don´t just mean coexistance with very small marketshare of the overall home-video market, than i would say both start winning when sales for both HDM increase steadily, while sales for DVD decrease at the same time, with HDM more or less filling the gap caused by the decreasing DVD sales.

I was going to say it happened the day Paramount went HD-DVD exclusive. Both formats now have significant exclusives and are pretty much at a stalemate.

I would say the day dual formats becomes a certainty would be the day we find that these format exclusive studios really have no plans to change their mind. For now there are rumors that the Paramount deal is temporary. If that gets debunked then you can live in dual-format bliss.

Edit: after reading Neo's post, he might of nailed it with this criteria: What-ever format Star Wars gets released on will win the "war", so unless Lucas releases on both, there will be no dual win. We all know Lucas is a patient man though. He'll probably wait out this format war a long time.

I was going to say it happened the day Paramount went HD-DVD exclusive. Both formats now have significant exclusives and are pretty much at a stalemate.

I would say the day dual formats becomes a certainty would be the day we find that these format exclusive studios really have no plans to change their mind. For now there are rumors that the Paramount deal is temporary. If that gets debunked then you can live in dual-format bliss.

Edit: after reading Neo's post, he might of nailed it with this criteria: What-ever format Star Wars gets released on will win the "war", so unless Lucas releases on both, there will be no dual win. We all know Lucas is a patient man though. He'll probably wait out this format war a long time.

Expect some flames here for the SW/Lucas comment....although I do agree w/ you (my forum sig shows I'm biased in this regard!)

I mentioned SW being a potential "decider" not long ago. So many responded that no one cares about SW anymore and it has been re-re-issued so many times lately that the market just doesn't care.

Prolly the same folks who "hate" the Special Edition....but still have the VHS and DVD copies (and all 3 prequel DVDs) on their shelves anyway.

For th majority of movie buffs, having SW in your collection is akin to having the Bible in your bookshelf. HD fans will want them in HD. Period. (although the current DVDs look REALLY GOOD upconverted and the current digital masters @ LFL ARE in HD)

If/when the SW set gets an HDM release...it'll be a big deal. Likely to have lots of new bouns materials. There is a lot of stuff they did not put on the '04 boxset. Surely waiting for a 6-film "Saga" set for that stuff.

If they came out today, they'd likely be BD as FOX distributes (but does not own) SW. It's conceivable, however, that since SW is fully owned by LFL, Lucas could release it indie-style thru LFL on both formats....or neither. Remember producer Rick McCallum's comment @ the Euro Celebration IV. Lucas is waiting for the format war to end. If it doesn't end/both sides lose, they may just say "screw HDM" altogether and do direct HD downloads instead.

DF is the future. No CE maker will want to alienate millions of media owners IF the cost of DF is reasonable. And by the time that the masses are ready for HDM, I see this as a distinct possibility(inexpensive DF).

I like your second point about market share, but why is Disney going neutral important if lots of DF players get announced?

That was more of a "canary in the mine" sign than a necessity for it to happen.

If both format survive, both formats will lose. They will lose out to regular DVD, with studios not wanting to put the money into supporting both, and consumers confused and unable to tell what to buy.

Eventually it will be like SACD and DVD-A. both formats stagnating

If both format survive, both formats will lose. They will lose out to regular DVD, with studios not wanting to put the money into supporting both, and consumers confused and unable to tell what to buy.

Eventually it will be like SACD and DVD-A. both formats stagnating

Let me guess, BD backer?

At this point I think both have lost. Unless dual format hardware starts coming fast, it's over.

At this point I think both have lost. Unless dual format hardware starts coming fast, it's over.

IMO - HDM lost the day it was announced. I have stated this many times in the past and nothing has changed as far as i am concerned. Even if we started with only a single format - HDM STILL will not be a mass adoption format. I feel this way because it caters to the high end with it's HD PQ and Lossless AQ. The public has no interest in either of these. Just like the public had no interest in LD.

Yes - having 2 formats does make it even worse but there is still the issue of the software cost. We have just seen a slew of player announcements from both sides and ALL (IFA and CEDIA) are aimed directly at the EA market with the exception of the A3. (the Venturer was announced before these Expo's started)

The USA has fallen on hard times as far as the economy. Anyone that ignores this fact is living in La La Land if they think people are going to rush out Q4 and buy luxury items by the millions.

I know that this is the wrong forum to be posing format neutral questions, but what the heck...

I am supporting both Blu-ray and HD DVD with player and media purchases. Is there a point when we will know that neither "loses," and both "win?"It's Here Now! Enjoy !

If both format survive, both formats will lose. They will lose out to regular DVD, with studios not wanting to put the money into supporting both, and consumers confused and unable to tell what to buy.

Eventually it will be like SACD and DVD-A. both formats stagnating
I don't think any given studio needs to support both. Makes no sense. They just need to support one. From that perspective Paramount's move makes perfect sense. Some studios may even choose between one format and the other based on the particular title.

At this point I think both have lost. Unless dual format hardware starts coming fast, it's over.
This is kinda what I am thinking. I think folks on AVS need to put their support behind dual format players. I'm not loaded, but I' thinking I will get one of the next generation dual format players to help support the cause and make my bedroom system dual format capable .

I think there is a point where both will lose.

"YOU win when YOU'RE happy with the selection of HiDef movies on your shelf at home to choose from, way I see it anyway. At this point in the war, neither side seems to be budging, and I don't have a problem with that because the content is continuing to come....as long as I can keep beefing up my selection with great movies, especially all of my personal fav's, then I'll be happy"


I totally agree with this. I think people get WAY to caught up in the whole WINNING thing and seem to forget that no matter what happens your player and HD discs will continue to work for years and years to come. If your player dies you will be able to cheaply replace from places like EBAY.

Laser Disc enjoyed over 20 years of niche status and got a lot of movies, I doubt Laser Disc owners were all that concerned with winning when looking at there huge collection of movies.

Winning doesn't matter as long as you are happy with your own movie collection.

If every movie I wanted to own in HD came in some Alien format that only I owned I would be perfectly happy.

When everyone just goes and watches their movies, instead of coming on here just to one up the other side.