Some funny quotes from Rich Marty VP of Sony.

"The format war between HD DVD and Blu-ray can cause some heated arguments from fan boys on both sides, but I think all fans of high-definition discs will get a kick out of this story. In an article by Pocket-lint, not only did Sony executive Don Eklund invite Toshiba and Microsoft to join the Blu-ray camp (ha-ha), but vice president Rich Marty dropped this gem of a quote:

"The DVD format was good, but profitability only lasted for a couple of years before there was no money to be had in the hardware market," said Marty. "We believe consumers are smart enough to realise the benefits and pay the extra accordingly."

Note to Sony: consumers don't care that DVDs aren't profitable for hardware makers, as demonstrated by DVD being one of the biggest success stories in consumer electronics history. And if being smart is paying more, then those who shelled out $600 for an iPhone nine weeks ago, only to see it drop to $400 today, must feel like geniuses. One more quote from the Pocket-lint article:

And as for how consumers are supposed to get around the Dreamworks and Paramount shift to HD DVD? "Buy it on DVD," Marty suggested - before quickly adding that Blu-ray players have upscaling features so you can still get the most out of the picture quality.

That quote says a lot, and it's not good news for Blu-ray. As much as HD DVD and Blu-ray go back and forth, the biggest threat to both high-def formats is standard DVD, where you can get any movie you want, at a cheap price, that plays on a cheap player. HD DVD (and Blu-ray) may be the look and sound of perfect, but for most people DVD is the look and sound of good enough."

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9772069-1.html

It does seem more and more that the BDA wants to kill both formats. They just seem to talk without thinking about what they're saying.

HD DVD (and Blu-ray) may be the look and sound of perfect, but for most people DVD is the look and sound of good enough."[/B]

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9772069-1.html


The blew-ray camp doesn't seem to realize this

And as for how consumers are supposed to get around the Dreamworks and Paramount shift to HD DVD? "Buy it on DVD," Marty suggested - before quickly adding that Blu-ray players have upscaling features so you can still get the most out of the picture quality.

Isn't this almost identical to Graffeo (sp?)'s quote a few weeks ago that got turned into a "OMG they're dropping HDDVD LOLZkthx"

So he's saying upscaled paramount dvds will look just as good as the HD-DVD versions. Right ok.

And as for how consumers are supposed to get around the Dreamworks and Paramount shift to HD DVD? "Buy it on DVD," Marty suggested - before quickly adding that Blu-ray players have upscaling features so you can still get the most out of the picture quality.


It does seem more and more that the BDA wants to kill both formats. They just seem to talk without thinking about what they're saying.

Actually, he was taking notes from HD DVD / M$ft.

This is was exactly what Ken Graffeo said referring to Toshiba's HD DVD player when responding to do with the player if HD DVD loses.

THey all talk out of their asses... Don't be a fanboy and realize all sides use the same tactics.

THey all talk out of their asses... Don't be a fanboy and realize all sides use the same tactics.


If only Bill "Papa Smurf" Hunt and all his minions could grasp this every time they throw their stale "P/DW got a 150 million payoff, WAAAH!" tantrum.

Umm..

Dear HD DVD supporters,

I noticed already today 3 threads started by (from what I can tell) all HD DVD supporters that are posting news that makes BDA look bad/silly. This is fine, cause news usually does make one format look good and the other look bad, but the thing about these 3 threads is that they all have a :D attached to them. Adding smiley faces in a gloating manner or insinuating manner or anything like that is exactly what you HD DVD supporters hate about certain Blu-Ray supporters who post news/rumors. If you really want the moral high ground (I know not all of you do), then please don't do the same things that you say are wrong for the Blu-Ray supporters to do.

As a format neutral person (a gamer who is just now getting educated/interested in HDM) I notice there are more HD DVD fans than Blu-Ray fans on this board, as evidenced by the poll that simply asks what format you have/support.

When you are outnumbered, it is when it's hardest to take the moral high ground, so when you are the majority, please use the opportunity to set a good example that will draw undecided enthusiasts to your side.

I know there used to be more Blu-Ray supporters on this forum, as many have said they were driven away. And maybe you feel that when they were here (maybe they were the majority at the time?), they did enough gloating on their part to justify yours. You might feel like this is "payback" or "karma," but I really think that you're not going to feel any better about yourself or your home theater setup or anything by lowering yourselves to the level of those whom you despise.

Remember that in the grand scheme of things, no fight worth fighting is ever truly between you and someone else--it is between you and the person you were yesterday, for someone else in the world being better than you in any way, shape or form, is not a reason to feel shame. But if you ever look at the person you were in the past and realize that you were a better person then than you are now, then THAT is a reason to feel shame.

Thank you,
-dionusos

Don't be a fanboy and realize all sides use the same tactics.

Coming from a $ony fanboy, lol

Reminds me a bit of Crazy Ken Kutaragi quotes before he was canned.

Umm..

Dear HD DVD supporters,

I noticed already today 3 threads started by (from what I can tell) all HD DVD supporters that are posting news that makes BDA look bad/silly. This is fine, cause news usually does make one format look good and the other look bad, but the thing about these 3 threads is that they all have a :D attached to them. Adding smiley faces in a gloating manner or insinuating manner or anything like that is exactly what you HD DVD supporters hate about certain Blu-Ray supporters who post news/rumors. If you really want the moral high ground (I know not all of you do), then please don't do the same things that you say are wrong for the Blu-Ray supporters to do.

As a format neutral person (a gamer who is just now getting educated/interested in HDM) I notice there are more HD DVD fans than Blu-Ray fans on this board, as evidenced by the poll that simply asks what format you have/support.

When you are outnumbered, it is when it's hardest to take the moral high ground, so when you are the majority, please use the opportunity to set a good example that will draw undecided enthusiasts to your side.

I know there used to be more Blu-Ray supporters on this forum, as many have said they were driven away. And maybe you feel that when they were here (maybe they were the majority at the time?), they did enough gloating on their part to justify yours. You might feel like this is "payback" or "karma," but I really think that you're not going to feel any better about yourself or your home theater setup or anything by lowering yourselves to the level of those whom you despise.

Remember that in the grand scheme of things, no fight worth fighting is ever truly between you and someone else--it is between you and the person you were yesterday, for someone else in the world being better than you in any way, shape or form, is not a reason to feel shame. But if you ever look at the person you were in the past and realize that you were a better person then than you are now, then THAT is a reason to feel shame.

Thank you,
-dionusos

The thing is, you dont really need threads to make the BDA look bad, they are very good at doing that to themselves the way they foam at the mouth.

"The war is over!!"

"We have 64% of stand alone's"

etc. etc.

I noticed already today 3 threads started by (from what I can tell) all HD DVD supporters that are posting news that makes BDA look bad/silly.

Sony sez: We need another $1,300 BD1.0 Player (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cedia07/sonys-bdp+s2000es-flagship-blu+ray-player-296413.php)!

Personally I'll attack Blu-ray anytime something stupid comes up because if they end up winning, I don't want to be forced to buy something which is stupid. I think HD DVD set the level of standards and is using a strategy which is solid and based on consumer adoption not 'slip the player in with a game system then screw over everyone on standalones'. I only hope that people from Sony read these threads and comments and wise up.

The thing is, you dont really need threads to make the BDA look bad, they are very good at doing that to themselves the way they foam at the mouth.
"The war is over!!"

"We have 64% of stand alone's"

etc. etc.



But yet they keep coming. ;)

The thing is, you dont really need threads to make the BDA look bad, they are very good at doing that to themselves the way they foam at the mouth.

"The war is over!!"

"We have 64% of stand alone's"

etc. etc.

Exactly.

Yes, but for a more expensive price:

1. You get discs that actually play
2. You do not have to boil them on occassion like your pasta
3. And you get many, many more lossless tracks.
4. Players that are faster and more responsive
5. Players that all pass blacker than black to DVI devices.

So yes, like everything else in this world, the better product is typically more money.

With respect, this is nothing new for Sony. Sony said that people would be glad to pay the extra money, and get a second job to afford a Playstation 3.

There is no surprise or story here. This is Sony at it's best.

Yes, but for a more expensive price:

1. You get discs that actually play
2. You do not have to boil them on occassion like your pasta
3. And you get many, many more lossless tracks.
4. Players that are faster and more responsive
5. Players that all pass blacker than black to DVI devices.

So yes, like everything else in this world, the better product is typically more money.

1. Ok all my 82 hddvd's play just fine thank you, Bland it's called a firmware upgrade, unplug that high speed porn port out of your computer and hook it up to the hddvd player and let it do it's magic and quit taking King Kong back to Best Buy because it won't play.

2. Boiling, I should have tried that to get the Liars dice game to work on my 94HD.

3. 1970's LPCM, thanks efficiency to rival 8 tracks. Well with 50gb's and few extras you need to take up that space somehow.

4. Test done on XA2 and 94HD. Toshiba player beats Pioneer at all stops in regards to load up times, simply turning on, shutting down. 1 minute 45 second load times are not fast.

5. Yes my Toshiba does this, the 94HD did not. I am using component input here with 0 IRE on both.

Isn't Sony's Vision / Mission statement company wide to get the consumers to pay more for their products because of a "perceived" better value.

They have very good marketing and can make you think this way. Bose is another company great at marketing a higher price, but not necessarily better, product.

Just like their statement that gamers are willing to get two jobs to pay for the PS3. :rolleyes:

Yes, but for a more expensive price:

1. You get discs that actually play
2. You do not have to boil them on occassion like your pasta
3. And you get many, many more lossless tracks.
4. Players that are faster and more responsive
5. Players that all pass blacker than black to DVI devices.

So yes, like everything else in this world, the better product is typically more money.

I have to agree 100% except for the boiling thing , as I bought no combos when I had an HDA-1 and RCA player that were both functional nightmares as well as slower than all three BD stand alones I bought.

The lack of HD audio on hd dvd will keep me from buying in again as thats the most important feature after P/Q for HD IMO.

PCM, DD-THD or DTS-MA.
Anything else is simply uncivilized. :)

PCM, DD-THD or DTS-MA.
Anything else is simply uncivilized. :)

Now all I can say is the Shining better have a 2.0 soundtrack (HD Audio is fine), but it better be a 2.0.

I was looking for a BD player but having problems finding one at the entry level that could handle HD audio (lossless). I found a few for $750+, but that is too much.

Now all I can say is the Shining better have a 2.0 soundtrack (HD Audio is fine), but it better be a 2.0.

I was looking for a BD player but having problems finding one at the entry level that could handle HD audio (lossless). I found a few for $750+, but that is too much.

The question is, if the PS3 would be able to decode DTS-HD and MA would you buy one?, because it already does all..

The question is, if the PS3 would be able to decode DTS-HD and MA would you buy one?, because it already does all..

You can only get HD audio out of the PS3 if you have a HDMI receiver tho.

The question is, if the PS3 would be able to decode DTS-HD and MA would you buy one?, because it already does all..

Does it do DTS HD-MA? Since when?

Some funny quotes from Rich Marty VP of Sony.
[/url]

I just can't get enough out of Sony these days. Every time they open their mouth something really really dumb comes out of it.

What from reading that I got from it that you want me to pay more for the same thing as HD-DVD why? Because it's better quality? I don't think so. Sorry Sony!!!

God I am almost feeling bad for them.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."

We already know Sony is dumb but when they just lie lie lie it really does remove all doubt and I can't wait until all your loyal customers leave you.

Pay more for less?

Sorry Sony, try again

So he's saying upscaled paramount dvds will look just as good as the HD-DVD versions. Right ok.

They will to 95% of the people. BD has the exact same problem, and he was stupid for making the comparison.

The question is, if the PS3 would be able to decode DTS-HD and MA would you buy one?, because it already does all..

NO! It is a gaming machine, is made by Sony, is very loud, and generates too much heat. Plus, the main reason I don't have one....no IR port to use it with my Harmony remote...yes I know that they make add-on IR remotes, but it still fails to power the unit on and off....unacceptable.

So he's saying upscaled paramount dvds will look just as good as the HD-DVD versions. Right ok.

They will to 95% of the people. BD has the exact same problem, and he was stupid for making the comparison.

Yes, but for a more expensive price:

1. You get discs that actually play
2. You do not have to boil them on occassion like your pasta
3. And you get many, many more lossless tracks.
4. Players that are faster and more responsive
5. Players that all pass blacker than black to DVI devices.

So yes, like everything else in this world, the better product is typically more money.

So your definition is that if it functions correctly, you typically pay more money even though functionality of Profile 1.1 isn't introduced yet (introduction of more storage space, etc). By your definition when Profile 1.1 stand alone players are introduced you are suppose to pay even more because those stand alone players are better current BR players. So lets wrap this up.
-you pay more for less
-you pay even more when BR player functions similarly to a HD player

I must be missing something. Isn't the Sony guy simply saying that consumers will appreciate the benefits of HD and pay more for an HD player over DVD?

How do threads like this continue to exist. There have been soo many obvious flame bait, opinion, wild speculation, commentary threads... its ridiculous.

So your definition is that if it functions correctly, you typically pay more money even though functionality of Profile 1.1 isn't introduced yet (introduction of more storage space, etc). By your definition when Profile 1.1 stand alone players are introduced you are suppose to pay even more because those stand alone players are better current BR players. So lets wrap this up.
-you pay more for less
-you pay even more when BR player functions similarly to a HD player


I think he is saying
1) Pay more to put in a disc and have it play reliably

Who cares about extra features... if the disc doesnt play or the movie skips and freezes.

A car with leather and navigation is great, but if it doesnt start on somedays.... that puts a real damper on things.

You are all missing the point here. People are willing to pay for quality if they have had to buy an expensive TV to watch player's output on in the first place. Why cheap out on the source end of things? I absolutely hate that my HD-A2 lacks features common in blu-ray and even some DVD players such as zooming on the remote, smooth 1.5X fast forward with downmixed sound and fairly smooth 3X fast forward with no sound. Is the HD-A2's CPU too anemic? Is it a lack of bandwidth?

The price of the movies are what is holding back adoption of HD media in general but especially HD DVD combo discs. Part of the reason why BD is leading in sales is because BD titles are cheaper on average.

"The DVD format was good, but profitability only lasted for a couple of years before there was no money to be had in the hardware market," said Marty.
I can see the new Bluray marketing slogans now...

"THINK OF THE LOSERS! CONSIDER THE POOR CE MAKERS!" :p

"Why pay less when you can pay MORE and help us all out?!" :D

Geez... what's next, they'll say they'll adopt a whale if we pay more for bluray?

Threads like this summarize the entire Blu-ray concept. The same concept I (and others) keep denouncing:

1 - Blu-ray is format created to make you pay more. Pay more for hardware. The BDA wants a tighter control on cheaper Chinese brands who are stealing consumers from Sony, Panasonic and Philips. Consumers who REALLY do not see the difference between a $40 player and a $100 one.

2 - Blu-ray wants you to buy more hardware. Its region coding will make me buy 3 players. And before some of you can say "oh, but pretty soon there will be region-free player just like DVD players", I must say I pretty much doubt it, since the BDA will not want to let that pass through (like they do in the DVDforum).

And if I happen to install a software to make my player "region-free", BD+ will be there to make sure that disc won't play!

3 - Blu-ray was created to recreate from zero an industry that today is cheap (DVD... and HD DVDs who use the same infrastructures already here) and consumers will pay for that for years to come, giving Sony Pictures, Fox and Disney a renovated source of profit until BD becomes more competitive and cheaper software start to show.

4 - Blu-ray exists to dictate down what us, consumers. It is a paranoid format who feeds simple misconceptions like "if it doesn't have lossless, it is s**t" or "bigger is better" or worse "Sony, Fox, Disney, Panasonic, etc. are backing it... so it it must be good".

Wow a corporation being honest for once. I commend them. Shame the dont all tell the truth.

I think he is saying
1) Pay more to put in a disc and have it play reliably

Who cares about extra features... if the disc doesnt play or the movie skips and freezes.

A car with leather and navigation is great, but if it doesnt start on somedays.... that puts a real damper on things.

That is not an accurate assessment of what I posted. In a nutshell what he said was that he expects people to pay more "just because" (through his examples). Which equal to nothing more then normal functionality. In the examples he gave, they are standard (at least expected) on all Hi Def media. So what makes it special, nothing! Thus, the reason why I said what I said.



1. You get discs that actually play (pretty standard here)
2. You do not have to boil them on occassion like your pasta (PoTC: CoBP has framing issues (http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/08/31/blu-rays-pirates-of-the-caribbean-release-has-framing-issues/))<--click
3. And you get many, many more lossless tracks. (not a selling point if you don't have the proper audio receiver...some may only use the TV's speakers)
4. Players that are faster and more responsive (oh really (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/movies/problems-with-blu+rays-bd+j-spec-causes-headaches-for-early-adopters-266923.php)?<--click)
5. Players that all pass blacker than black to DVI devices. (this involves the combo of player, TV and connection)

Umm..

Dear HD DVD supporters,

I noticed already today 3 threads started by (from what I can tell) all HD DVD supporters that are posting news that makes BDA look bad/silly. This is fine, cause news usually does make one format look good and the other look bad, but the thing about these 3 threads is that they all have a :D attached to them. Adding smiley faces in a gloating manner or insinuating manner or anything like that is exactly what you HD DVD supporters hate about certain Blu-Ray supporters who post news/rumors. If you really want the moral high ground (I know not all of you do), then please don't do the same things that you say are wrong for the Blu-Ray supporters to do.

As a format neutral person (a gamer who is just now getting educated/interested in HDM) I notice there are more HD DVD fans than Blu-Ray fans on this board, as evidenced by the poll that simply asks what format you have/support.

When you are outnumbered, it is when it's hardest to take the moral high ground, so when you are the majority, please use the opportunity to set a good example that will draw undecided enthusiasts to your side.

I know there used to be more Blu-Ray supporters on this forum, as many have said they were driven away. And maybe you feel that when they were here (maybe they were the majority at the time?), they did enough gloating on their part to justify yours. You might feel like this is "payback" or "karma," but I really think that you're not going to feel any better about yourself or your home theater setup or anything by lowering yourselves to the level of those whom you despise.

Remember that in the grand scheme of things, no fight worth fighting is ever truly between you and someone else--it is between you and the person you were yesterday, for someone else in the world being better than you in any way, shape or form, is not a reason to feel shame. But if you ever look at the person you were in the past and realize that you were a better person then than you are now, then THAT is a reason to feel shame.

Thank you,
-dionusos

QFE...try some humility guys. Maybe you guys don't truly realize how these posts reflect on you.

NO! It is a gaming machine, is made by Sony, is very loud, and generates too much heat. Plus, the main reason I don't have one....no IR port to use it with my Harmony remote...yes I know that they make add-on IR remotes, but it still fails to power the unit on and off....unacceptable.

The PS3 is an excellent BD player point blank, and you not owning one is reason enough that you don't know this.
Speak from experience, or not at all.

It is not too loud, nor does it run hot, and yes the remote can shut off/ power down the PS3.
It also responds quickly to functions.
Can your post contain any more misinformation?

That is not an accurate assessment of what I posted. In a nutshell what he said was that he expects people to pay more "just because" (though his examples). Which equal to nothing more then normal functionality. In the examples he gave, they are standard (at least expected) on all Hi Def media. So what makes it special, nothing! Thus, the reason why I said what I said.


I quoted you responding to thebland.

It seems pertinent that Sony has just announced two new players at CEDIA....the $700, 500 and the $1300, 2000ES. Is this how to compete in the format war? What they need is a $200-$300 player and......:rolleyes:

So every BR stand-alone player on the market today will be unable to access 1/2 the stuff on future discs. Great. Why pay more for something that will be considered crippled in a year?

This will be a PR nightmare when profile 1.1 finally does come out.

i could read the headlines again..... sony is too expensive and the cheaper will win...the software isnt a factor anymore because fox blu-ray movies are expensive as well.... plus these companies cant afford to drop prices because then they will never make money

The PS3 is an excellent BD player point blank, and you not owning one is reason enough that you don't know this.
Speak from experience, or not at all.

It is not too loud, nor does it run hot, and yes the remote can shut off/ power down the PS3.
It also responds quickly to functions.
Can your post contain any more misinformation?

My cousin owns one and I have seen it in use.

It is loud...it does run hot (he had to pull it out of his 4 sides ventilated rack just to get it to run)....and NO HE CAN NOT use his Harmony remote to power the unit off and on. During one movie we were watching all we could hear was the fan over the dialog and we were sitting 18 feet away!!

No where did I say it doesn't respond quickly to commands from the game pad.

Hey, this is just my personal experience with this particular Sony product...I wasn't impressed and since all my other Sony products have failed just outside of their warranty period (sans my 15 year old clock radio) it will take a heck of a lot to get me to purchase another Sony product.

The PS3 is an excellent BD player point blank, and you not owning one is reason enough that you don't know this.
Speak from experience, or not at all.

It is not too loud, nor does it run hot, and yes the remote can shut off/ power down the PS3.
It also responds quickly to functions.
Can your post contain any more misinformation?



earz i own both ps3 and hd-dvd...

ps3 is good but not great.... it runs alittle hot and can be noisy sometimes... not all the time but sometimes

Yes, but for a more expensive price:

1. You get discs that actually play
2. You do not have to boil them on occassion like your pasta
3. And you get many, many more lossless tracks.
4. Players that are faster and more responsive
5. Players that all pass blacker than black to DVI devices.

So yes, like everything else in this world, the better product is typically more money.

Somebody needs to beat you with a clue-by-four. In typical mindless fanboy fashion you use idiotic generalizations. Lest we forget, this is the same person that had all that praise for the Toshiba XA2. Guess you feel stupid for buying that boat anchor, huh?

That reminds me: why haven't you sold off your HD-DVD player and all your HD-DVDs, since it's such a dismal failure as a format?...

Somebody needs to beat you with a clue-by-four. In typical mindless fanboy fashion you use idiotic generalizations. Lest we forget, this is the same person that had all that praise for the Toshiba XA2. Guess you feel stupid for buying that boat anchor, huh?

That reminds me: why haven't you sold off your HD-DVD player and all your HD-DVDs, since it's such a dismal failure as a format?...

As a hobbyist, I have bought many boat anchors..and liked them all.

The XA2 is a great machine. I've been lucky.

But many folks have had problems. It is undeniable.

Sell it? And give up 1/2 the content? No way.

So every BR stand-alone player on the market today will be unable to access 1/2 the stuff on future discs. Great. Why pay more for something that will be considered crippled in a year?

This will be a PR nightmare when profile 1.1 finally does come out.

They can always have new slogans.

"Blu Ray, beyond incomplete"

"Blu Ray, beyond a mortgage payment"

:D

As a hobbyist, I have bought many boat anchors..and liked them all.

The XA2 is a great machine. I've been lucky.

But many folks have had problems. It is undeniable.

Sell it? And give up 1/2 the content? No way.

Soon to be 2/3 the content...or more!;)

PS: hope you had a great time in Paris; the wife and I loved it in March!:)

I think he is saying
1) Pay more to put in a disc and have it play reliably

Who cares about extra features... if the disc doesnt play or the movie skips and freezes.

A car with leather and navigation is great, but if it doesnt start on somedays.... that puts a real damper on things.

I don't know why everyone thinks HD DVD just skips and freezes. I've never had an HD DVD freeze on my XA2. And out of 60 discs, I've had one skip and it only did it once, so it was probably just a stray fingerprint or something.

My cousin has never had a skip or freeze with his A2, out of 15 HD DVD's.

I think people see the 1% of owners who unfortunately have had problems (especially G1 owners) and assume that the other 99% are having the same problems. This is not the case.

You are all missing the point here. People are willing to pay for quality if they have had to buy an expensive TV to watch player's output on in the first place. Why cheap out on the source end of things? I absolutely hate that my HD-A2 lacks features common in blu-ray and even some DVD players such as zooming on the remote, smooth 1.5X fast forward with downmixed sound and fairly smooth 3X fast forward with no sound. Is the HD-A2's CPU too anemic? Is it a lack of bandwidth?

The price of the movies are what is holding back adoption of HD media in general but especially HD DVD combo discs. Part of the reason why BD is leading in sales is because BD titles are cheaper on average.

Not directing this directly at you, but Blu fans in general. I always like how many blu fans trumpet, profile 1.1 doesn't matter, ee don't care if we can access special features on our 1.0 player, etc. Special features aren't important, onlt the movie.

Then another one comes along an smears HD DVD because of it performance at 1.5X and 3X fast forward.

My takeway 1.5X and 3X FF, and the ability to zoom away from OAR is more important than being able to access future special features. I'm left scratching my head...

I don't know why everyone thinks HD DVD just skips and freezes. I've never had an HD DVD freeze on my XA2. And out of 60 discs, I've had one skip and it only did it once, so it was probably just a stray fingerprint or something.

My cousin has never had a skip or freeze with his A2, out of 15 HD DVD's.

I think people see the 1% of owners who unfortunately have had problems (especially G1 owners) and assume that the other 99% are having the same problems. This is not the case.

Very rarely for me -- really just the odd rental that played fine after cleaning.

Umm..

Dear HD DVD supporters,

I noticed already today... 3 threads started by (from what I can tell) all HD DVD supporters that are posting news that makes BDA look bad/silly. This is fine, cause news usually does make one format look good and the other look bad, but the thing about these 3 threads is that they all have a :D attached to them. Adding smiley faces in a gloating manner or insinuating manner or anything like that is exactly what you HD DVD supporters hate about certain Blu-Ray supporters who post news/rumors. If you really want the moral high ground (I know not all of you do), then please don't do the same things that you say are wrong for the Blu-Ray supporters to do.

As a format neutral person (a gamer who is just now getting educated/interested in HDM) I notice there are more HD DVD fans than Blu-Ray fans on this board, as evidenced by the poll that simply asks what format you have/support.

When you are outnumbered, it is when it's hardest to take the moral high ground, so when you are the majority, please use the opportunity to set a good example that will draw undecided enthusiasts to your side.

I know there used to be more Blu-Ray supporters on this forum, as many have said they were driven away. And maybe you feel that when they were here (maybe they were the majority at the time?), they did enough gloating on their part to justify yours. You might feel like this is "payback" or "karma," but I really think that you're not going to feel any better about yourself or your home theater setup or anything by lowering yourselves to the level of those whom you despise.

Remember that in the grand scheme of things, no fight worth fighting is ever truly between you and someone else--it is between you and the person you were yesterday, for someone else in the world being better than you in any way, shape or form, is not a reason to feel shame. But if you ever look at the person you were in the past and realize that you were a better person then than you are now, then THAT is a reason to feel shame.

Thank you,
-dionusos

Great Post. If only more AVS members took the high road this would once more be a great place to share and find information about one of our favorite hobbies. This goes for BD and HD DVD fans...

Not directing this directly at you, but Blu fans in general. I always like how many blu fans trumpet, profile 1.1 doesn't matter, ee don't care if we can access special features on our 1.0 player, etc. Special features aren't important, onlt the movie.

Then another one comes along an smears HD DVD because of it performance at 1.5X and 3X fast forward.

My takeway 1.5X and 3X FF, and the ability to zoom away from OAR is more important than being able to access future special features. I'm left scratching my head...

No kidding..... using fast forwarding and rewinding a lot? What the fock for? :confused:

Even so.... having obnoxiously overpriced hardware and trying to justify it because of fast forward performance is a little bit of a reach....yes?

Just face it.... The BDA wants to make booku bucks of hardware. No spin required. For those that anted up the funds for your BD player: congrats on helping out the CE mfgs....they appreciate it and will likely be adding you to their Christmas card "send to" list this year. :rolleyes:

And if being smart is paying more, then those who shelled out $600 for an iPhone nine weeks ago, only to see it drop to $400 today, must feel like geniuses.


Thanks for the compliment! :cool:

Yes, but for a more expensive price:

1. You get discs that actually play
2. You do not have to boil them on occassion like your pasta
3. And you get many, many more lossless tracks.
4. Players that are faster and more responsive
5. Players that all pass blacker than black to DVI devices.

So yes, like everything else in this world, the better product is typically more money.

lol lol lmao

6. Players that cant do interactive features already announced on FOX and Disney tigles.
7. Players that cant do web feature.
8. You get expensive players that requires you to pay even more to get more expensive players that can support future BD releases .

face it. BD CEs wants to make money but with Toshiba slashing prices and Chinese CEs entering the market with dirt cheap HD DVD players, BD basically need to make a choice to eithe continue to make money and lose the war or start slashing player prices by 50% or more and win the war.

Studios would however prefer BD CEs to slash prices and bring in cheap chinese players so that more players would be in consumers' hand. Looks that more studio defection is coming ;)

As a hobbyist, I have bought many boat anchors..and liked them all.

The XA2 is a great machine. I've been lucky.

But many folks have had problems. It is undeniable.

Sell it? And give up 1/2 the content? No way.


he is keeping the HD DVD players so that everytime people point out his obvious anti HD DVD antics, he can simply say '' hey i own an HD DVD player. I have more right to say what i say than anyone of you who btw own mostly the cheapo entry level player that cant even do 1080p'

;)

Dear HD DVD supporters,

I noticed already today 3 threads started by (from what I can tell) all HD DVD supporters that are posting news that makes BDA look bad/silly...Umm, Bluray does that job just fine by itself. We just help spread the word when they do it...

JediMastr, CincyNick: Thanks guys. It's sad that the others who responded to my post only chose to respond to the first part and ignored the rest. The first part was only an example of a larger problem, and they chose to address the example, not the larger problem. Thus they exemplified the very problem I was referring to. They only responded because they saw it as another opportunity to bash the opposing format.

JediMastr, CincyNick: Thanks guys. It's sad that the others who responded to my post only chose to respond to the first part and ignored the rest. The first part was only an example of a larger problem, and they chose to address the example, not the larger problem. Thus they exemplified the very problem I was referring to. They only responded because they saw it as another opportunity to bash the opposing format.

There was a big change a few weeks ago. Before the Paramount annoucement. Every thread had a comment about how HD DVD would be dead is x months, or xx was another nail in HD DVDs coffin. There were multiple threads about Universal having to going neutral, and how software sales would soon be 90:10. People created charts showing next years sales and how HD DVD would be less than 5%.

Trust me, this is cyclical. BR fans are just as bad if not worse. The worst posts I have ever seen by far were by BR fans, and that is what drove me to favor HD DVD. I am truely a neutral fan, but post for HD DVD because I grew sick of the BR comments that I felt were unfair.

The good thing is that a lot of BR posters have left for the BR.com forums (and the HDDVD poster hit list) where they can make silly comments unchallenged. That is why you now see more HD DVD people here.

Maybe I should go back to being neutral now.

So your definition is that if it functions correctly, you typically pay more money even though functionality of Profile 1.1 isn't introduced yet (introduction of more storage space, etc). By your definition when Profile 1.1 stand alone players are introduced you are suppose to pay even more because those stand alone players are better current BR players. So lets wrap this up.
-you pay more for less
-you pay even more when BR player functions similarly to a HD player
Virtually nobody outside of HD DVD forums like AVS care about PIP. They care about picture quality, sound quality, reliability, studio support, hardware choice and lower price of movie titles. Hardware is a one time expense whereas movies are reoccurring. Which do you think is more important in the long run for a consumer that has already invested in a 1080p display and av receiver?

I repeat. PIP and interactivity is a gimmick to me even though I have access to them.

I repeat. PIP and interactivity is a gimmick to me even though I have access to them.

Right. Now they're a gimmick. Where as before, when both were still paper specs, BD's storage advantage could provide more content like this and it was a major advantage being touted all over the place. Funny how that's changed.

Now they're a gimmick, and yet, BD is playing catch-up to try and get them into their profiles.

Um-hmmm.

:rolleyes:

Right. Now they're a gimmick. Where as before, when both were still paper specs, BD's storage advantage could provide more content like this and it was a major advantage being touted all over the place. Funny how that's changed.

Now they're a gimmick, and yet, BD is playing catch-up to try and get them into their profiles.

Um-hmmm.

:rolleyes:

I was going to say pretty much the same thing, but you beat me to it!:cool:

Right. Now they're a gimmick. Where as before, when both were still paper specs, BD's storage advantage could provide more content like this and it was a major advantage being touted all over the place. Funny how that's changed.

Now they're a gimmick, and yet, BD is playing catch-up to try and get them into their profiles.

Um-hmmm.

:rolleyes:
The extras on DVDs were gimmicks. Be honest with yourself and everyone and admit that you might look at them once or twice if at all or if you are really board. They don't have replay value.

Higher quality audio and higher quality video encodes are what capacity and higher bandwidth give you. Depending on the content, MPEG2 can deliver a better picture quality with enough space than the best VC-1 or AVC encode. Most of the time AVC will do just fine but there are cases when they MP4 based codecs can have trouble rendering certain types of scenes like ones with a lot of random background motion while an MPEG2 encode would work just fine.

Take a look at most of the universal titles on HD DVD and you will see most of them have only DD+.

I bought a new 40” BRAVIA W-Series (KDL40W3000) yesterday and I have a feeling I will be disappointed by the quality of HD DVD on that screen compared to blu-ray.

The extras on DVDs were gimmicks. Be honest with yourself and everyone and admit that you might look at them once or twice if at all or if you are really board. They don't have replay value.

Higher quality audio and higher quality video encodes are what capacity and higher bandwidth give you. Depending on the content, MPEG2 can deliver a better picture quality with enough space that the best VC-1 or AVC encode. Most of the time AVC will do just fine but there are cases when they MP4 based codecs can have trouble rendering certain types of scenes like ones with a lot of random background motion while an MPEG2 encode would work just fine.

Take a look at most of the universal titles on HD DVD and you will see most of them have only DD+.

I bought a new 40” BRAVIA W-Series (KDL40W3000) yesterday and I have a feeling I will be disappointed by the quality of HD DVD on that screen compared to blu-ray.


No further questions.

I bought a new 40” BRAVIA W-Series (KDL40W3000) yesterday and I have a feeling I will be disappointed by the quality of HD DVD on that screen compared to blu-ray.

Only because you are watching through your blu glasses. On a 40" screen, I doubt you can see any difference.

No further questions.
Space for audio and the maximum audio/video bandwidth is a real issue for HD DVD.

Only because you are watching through your blu glasses. On a 40" screen, I doubt you can see any difference.
When my 1080p display arrives, I will be able to see what the reviewers are seeing. Some of the VC-1 encodes appear to be a little soft and some have claimed that they could see some pulsing effects effects in certain King Kong scenes.

Keep in mind that this new display will not only have higher resolution than my old display (1080p instead of 720p) but a much higher contrast ratio and full colour support. I should be able to detect compression artifacts more easily with the higher resolution and contrast.

I'm also upgrading from a 30" display through component to a 40" display through HDMI. I will definately see a difference.

PS. The same will be true of Blu-ray titles as well but based on reviews, most of the blu-ray titles I have should hold up quite nicely.

When my 1080p display arrives, I will be able to see what the reviewers are seeing. Some of the VC-1 encodes appear to be a little soft and some have claimed that they could see some pulsing effects effects in certain King Kong scenes.

Keep in mind that this new display will not only have higher resolution than my old display (1080p instead of 720p) but a much higher contrast ratio and full colour support. I should be able to detect compression artifacts more easily with the higher resolution and contrast.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk here, but what I am saying is that a 40" screen is too small to see such subtle "differences."

I'm really not trying to be a jerk here, but what I am saying is that a 40" screen is too small to see such subtle "differences."
Why is it that people that act like jerks preface it with "I'm not trying to be a jerk"? Listen pal, if you cannot see the differences on a 40" 1080p screen with full 1920X1080 resolution, that does not mean they are not visible. I can see film grain on a 40" display. If film grain is visible, I most certainly will see any macro blocking, pulsing etc... on this display.

I suggest getting your eyes checked.

Why is it that people that act like jerks preface it with "I'm not trying to be a jerk"? Listen pal, if you cannot see the differences on a 40" 1080p screen with full 1920X1080 resolution, that does not mean they are not visible. I can see film grain on a 40" display. If film grain is visible, I most certainly will see any macro blocking, pulsing etc... on this display.

I suggest getting your eyes checked.

You really need to calm down a little, he wasn't being a jerk. He was simply saying that a 40" screen is still fairly small to see all the subtleties in the picture. That's his opinion, one that is shared by many.

Only because you are watching through your blu glasses. On a 40" screen, I doubt you can see any difference.

I don't think anyone has conclusively said they can see a difference on ANY screen size.

PQ of Hot Fuzz or King Kong on HD-DVD is at the very least equal to BD's BEST titles.

I don't think anyone has conclusively said they can see a difference on ANY screen size.

PQ of Hot Fuzz or King Kong on HD-DVD is at the very least equal to BD's BEST titles.

If the encode is good, you won't see any difference on any size screen between BD and HD for like titles. Aristotle's assumption that he will be dissapointed with HD DVD compared to BD is BS and biased. There are good and bad titles on both sides, but a great title from either camp will have equally stunning PQ. I think Mike's point was that at 40", he may be hard pressed to see much difference between HD/BD and upconverted SD. Again, this is not my opinion, but one that is shared by many supporters in both camps.

There was a big change a few weeks ago. Before the Paramount annoucement. Every thread had a comment about how HD DVD would be dead is x months, or xx was another nail in HD DVDs coffin. There were multiple threads about Universal having to going neutral, and how software sales would soon be 90:10. People created charts showing next years sales and how HD DVD would be less than 5%.

Trust me, this is cyclical. BR fans are just as bad if not worse. The worst posts I have ever seen by far were by BR fans, and that is what drove me to favor HD DVD. I am truely a neutral fan, but post for HD DVD because I grew sick of the BR comments that I felt were unfair.

The good thing is that a lot of BR posters have left for the BR.com forums (and the HDDVD poster hit list) where they can make silly comments unchallenged. That is why you now see more HD DVD people here.

Maybe I should go back to being neutral now.
I had already guessed that this is what took place. But I addressed this very thing in my first post of this thread:

"I know there used to be more Blu-Ray supporters on this forum, as many have said they were driven away. And maybe you feel that when they were here (maybe they were the majority at the time?), they did enough gloating on their part to justify yours. You might feel like this is "payback" or "karma," but I really think that you're not going to feel any better about yourself or your home theater setup or anything by lowering yourselves to the level of those whom you despise.

Remember that in the grand scheme of things, no fight worth fighting is ever truly between you and someone else--it is between you and the person you were yesterday, for someone else in the world being better than you in any way, shape or form, is not a reason to feel shame. But if you ever look at the person you were in the past and realize that you were a better person then than you are now, then THAT is a reason to feel shame."

Returning the favor makes the HD DVD fanboys just as bad as the BD fanboys. It's not the virility of the post that makes you a fanboy. It's the intent. The intentions are the same on both sides, so no the BD fanboys are not "worse." They are equal.

all I can say is that everyone here needs to quit watching the picture and start watching the movie :) I rarely find myself looking for artifacts when watching a good movie. Now if it is something glaring, I'll see it, but subtle differences I don't notice.

If I'm noticing subtle differences, that means that the movie sucks and I shouldn't have wasted my money. :D

Space for audio and the maximum audio/video bandwidth is a real issue for HD DVD.

When an uncompressed movie would take about a terabyte, it's a problem for BOTH formats.

When someone finally takes a title, throws more bits at it that go beyond HD DVD's ceiling while staying within BD's...and shows a movie that looks and sounds perceivably better because of it, then we can talk. Until then, please brush up on the concept of diminishing returns while keeping the BD spin-points at bay.

Thanks. ;)

all I can say is that everyone here needs to quit watching the picture and start watching the movie :) I rarely find myself looking for artifacts when watching a good movie. Now if it is something glaring, I'll see it, but subtle differences I don't notice.

If I'm noticing subtle differences, that means that the movie sucks and I shouldn't have wasted my money. :D

I couldn't agree more with you!

You really need to calm down a little, he wasn't being a jerk. He was simply saying that a 40" screen is still fairly small to see all the subtleties in the picture. That's his opinion, one that is shared by many.

Thank you. I did not respond myself as I was having a difficult time thinking of a civil response.

When an uncompressed movie would take about a terabyte, it's a problem for BOTH formats.

When someone finally takes a title, throws more bits at it that go beyond HD DVD's ceiling while staying within BD's...and shows a movie that looks and sounds perceivably better because of it, then we can talk. Until then, please brush up on the concept of diminishing returns while keeping the BD spin-points at bay.

Thanks. ;)
Reading is fundamental. Uncompressed audio.

all I can say is that everyone here needs to quit watching the picture and start watching the movie :) I rarely find myself looking for artifacts when watching a good movie. Now if it is something glaring, I'll see it, but subtle differences I don't notice.

If I'm noticing subtle differences, that means that the movie sucks and I shouldn't have wasted my money. :D
I'm confused, I thought this site was called AV science forum, not AV J6P. I suppose when it comes to the format war, science and objectivity goes straight out the window.

HD DVD - The Sight and Sound of "Good Enough".

Reading is fundamental. Uncompressed audio.

Indeed it is, so is writing...and I was responding to YOUR posting:

Space for audio and the maximum audio/video bandwidth is a real issue for HD DVD.

Now get back to me when that test has been done.

Indeed it is, so is writing...and I was responding to YOUR posting:



Now get back to me when that test has been done.
Go to wikipedia, look up the comparison between the formats and check out the section where the bandwidth is is displayed. The maximum raw bandwidth, maximum video bandwidth and maximum audio+video bandwidth is displayed for each format.

When bandwidth issues for feature films are being discussed, one must take into account the combined audio video bandwidth available for a particular format. Which audio codec you decide to use will determine how much bandwidth will be available for the video portion of a title.

Choosing a format with a lower peak audio+video bandwidth will limit how high your audio can go. In this matter, Blu-ray has a clear advantage of having far more headroom to allow for a higher quality video and audio encode than what is technically possible with HD DVD.

I'm confused, I thought this site was called AV science forum, not AV J6P.

Funny, judging from lack of many quality posts as of late, I thought it stood for the Audio, Video Shilling Forum.

Thank you. I did not respond myself as I was having a difficult time thinking of a civil response.

No problem. I wouldn't be too worried about civility though. Reading through some of his posts on the forum, it's clear that he certainly isn't.

I'm confused, I thought this site was called AV science forum, not AV J6P. I suppose when it comes to the format war, science and objectivity goes straight out the window.

HD DVD - The Sight and Sound of "Good Enough".

Yes, no one here ever talks about the substance of films or any non-science stuff.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=904317
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849571
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=903850
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=901729

I'll take that as a personal attack and insult...see ya'...

Go to wikipedia, look up the comparison between the formats and check out the section where the bandwidth is is displayed. The maximum raw bandwidth, maximum video bandwidth and maximum audio+video bandwidth is displayed for each format.

When bandwidth issues for feature films are being discussed, one must take into account the combined audio video bandwidth available for a particular format. Which audio codec you decide to use will determine how much bandwidth will be available for the video portion of a title.

Choosing a format with a lower peak audio+video bandwidth will limit how high your audio can go. In this matter, Blu-ray has a clear advantage of having far more headroom to allow for a higher quality video and audio encode than what is technically possible with HD DVD.


And the beat goes on.

Both formats have a bandwidth and storage ceiling. Both of them have to take about a terabyte and make it fit onto 30 or 50 gig (although most BD's are STILL just 25 gig) while flowing through their respective bandwidths at mux and playback.

You're not explaining anything new, everybody here's known what the numbers are for quite some time now.

What you BD spinners keep ignoring is one simple test. Take a title, throw more bits at it (more = more than HD DVD can take, but within BD's limits), then show the title. Surely if BDs storage and bandwidth advantage is as much a benefit as all the blue boys claim it is, they could easily put this to bed...and show a title that is perceivably better looking and sounding.

EVERY time a bigger is better troll person makes this claim, I ask for this test, and have been for almost a year now. Funny, the proof isn't there. Why doesn't a simple title with HD DVD's ceiling as the baseline encode just get cranked up to BD's ceiling to prove this constant spin? Why is that?

It's like MP3 compression. You can throw 10 MG/384 kbps at a 3 minute song, and 15 MG/512 kbps at a 3 minute song.

If you want to be disingenous and claim you could tell the difference between the two, then go ahead. Diminishing returns comes into play when compressing audio and video, like it does with so many things.

Sure, more bits is better on a piece of paper, and for data storage. When they don't visibly improve video or audibly improve audio (and certainly aren't being used for interactivity ;) ) it remains a non-issue.

Sure, more bits is better on a piece of paper, and for data storage. When they don't visibly improve video or audibly improve audio (and certainly aren't being used for interactivity ;) ) it remains a non-issue.

Exactly, the specs are one thing, but reality is that the quality is basically the same. BD had to have a larger storage capacity because the original plan was to use less efficient codecs to save $ on royalties.