(Video Business Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge) When it comes to installing a high-definition player, it makes little difference to the technicians who blend artistry and technology to create home theaters. Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD players are relatively the same size and weight, operate the same way and share comparable price points on some models, although HD DVD is cheaper overall. But do the people who plug the units into their clients' component stacks have a preference between the Sony-led Blu-ray format and Toshiba-led HD DVD?



We're happy to install either one, says Jon Robbins, chief operating officer of HiFi House, a consumer electronics dealer focused on high-end custom installation in Philadelphia. As a matter of fact, we're doing quite well with the LG BH100 combo unit, which plays both formats.

I really don't have a preference, Robbins says, but it seems that in the last 60 to 90 days, the consumer awareness of Blu-ray has gone leaps and bounds over HD. It's a combination of marketing on the Blu-ray side and the Blockbuster announcement, he says, referring to Blockbuster's June announcement that it will stock only Blu-ray in most stores that carry high-def discs.

The Blockbuster announcement was significant, says Richard Glikes, executive director of Home Theater Specialists of America, a 61-member buying group representing a half-billion dollars a year in sales. Though it is too early to tell which of the formats will endure at the mass level, among the customers of these high-end specialists, momentum has definitely swung in one direction. Personally, I think the die has been cast, Glikes says. I surveyed our membership, and 93.95% of the high-definition players they've sold are Blu-ray. Six percent are HD DVD, and a lot of those are the LG combo unit.

Glikes says that there's no big issue regarding installation, but when it comes to the studios [backing a format], when it comes to the manufacturer and the storage capacity, it leans to Blu-ray. I don't think it will be too long before Blu-ray is pronounced the winner.

Software definitely plays a huge part in it, but it seems to me the HD camp is all about how cheap and how fast, says David Wexler, co-owner of The Little Guys, a high-end retailer and installation company in Chicago. Blu-ray is about the quality and performance of the machine. We'd rather the piece be more expensive if it's good. We expect a higher-quality piece, and our customers expect to pay more, Wexler says.

To the installer, it doesn't make any difference, he says. But at the end of the day, they want to put a good picture up. From a retail standpoint, we endorse Blu-ray, and we have from the beginning.

But one way or the other, he'd like the conflict over the formats to be over. Someone has to win this battle and get it over with for the long-term success of DVD not just high-definition but DVD period, he says. If this thing lingers and lingers, nobody wins.

Copyright 2007 Reed Business Information. All Rights Reserved.
http://internetcommunications.tmcnet.com/news/2007/09/04/2910321.htm

~Josh

So how old is this article? Not when it was published - but when was it written? I see no mention of the Paramount announcement.

And of course Josh you left out a word in your title like "Installer" so are you trying to say the magazine/website/entire business favors BD?

Strange:confused:

http://internetcommunications.tmcnet.com/news/2007/09/04/2910321.htm

~Josh

It's old. Saw this a long time ago. Was I had the link, I have seen this somewhere before.

Man, BD folk are in need of good news. Even the Bland is not his posting self.

It is interesting to see the BD fans being a little more depressed and angry lately. Anyone else notice the change in moods since PDW and all the HDDVD annoucements?

So how old is this article? Not when it was published - but when was it written? I see no mention of the Paramount announcement.

And of course Josh you left out a word in your title like "Installer" so are you trying to say the magazine/website/entire business favors BD?

Strange:confused:

[September 04, 2007]

NICE ARTICLE, JOSH

So how old is this article? Not when it was published - but when was it written? I see no mention of the Paramount announcement.

And of course Josh you left out a word in your title like "Installer" so are you trying to say the magazine/website/entire business favors BD?

Strange:confused:

9/04/07, so two days a go. I left the title as it appears in the article. This article is from the September 3, 2007 issue of Video Business Magazine. It can be found on page 6 I am told.

~Josh

It is interesting to see the BD fans being a little more depressed and angry lately. Anyone else notice the change in moods since PDW and all the HDDVD annoucements?
Perhaps they are waiting for Beatboy's big news. :rolleyes:
J

[September 04, 2007]

NICE ARTICLE, JOSH

Once again that is the publish date. The article could have been written 2 weeks ago - before the P/DW announcement.

Another nail in the HD DVD coffin :rolleyes:

9/04/07, so two days a go. I left the title as it appears in the article. This article is from the September 3, 2007 issue of Video Business Magazine. It can be found on page 6 I am told.

Oh, ok, so it's not out of date, rather the authors are out of touch. Got it.

OMG, could this be the "Earth Shattering" news you were touting?

Run for the hills!!!!!

9/04/07, so two days a go. I left the title as it appears in the article. This article is from the September 3, 2007 issue of Video Business Magazine. It can be found on page 6 I am told.

~Josh

The article was written on september 4th and appeared in the september 3rd issue of the magazine?:confused:

Come on guys he is reporting the news. This news however is dated so the original author is to blame. Imagine all the people buying the mag. and reading this story without any knowledge of PM/DW.

The article was written on september 4th and appeared in the september 3rd issue of the magazine?:confused:

The Blockbuster announcement was significant, says Richard Glikes, executive director of Home Theater Specialists of America

Guess the Paramount announcement was not significant:rolleyes:

I read this ages ago, I'm almost positive. This was after BBV but before Onkyo when they were still complaining about not having the high-end offerings Blu-ray had for custom installs. Needless to say that now there's Onkyo and Integra coming as well as the Paramount/Dreamworks and Venturer announcements. Even if the article was just printed this week, it's a month out of date.

Imagine all the people buying the mag. and reading this story without any knowledge of PM/DW.

I imagine the number of readers of Video Business with no knowlege of the Paramount deal is pretty low.

Still, installers pushing the more expensive option? Who'da thunk it? :eek:

http://internetcommunications.tmcnet.com/news/2007/09/04/2910321.htm

~Josh

Too bad they they are not investing any money in the format, that would have been more useful.:p

Well, I do this for a living and we do not offer customers either. We have sold and installed more HD DVD players with several BD player customers either changing to HD DVD or canceling their BD (HD) orders after the Paramount announcement. We absolutely would not sell the LG unless he customer really had to have one.If Hifi House is recommending the LG, shame on them.

Well, I do this for a living and we do not offer customers either. We have sold and installed more HD DVD players with several BD player customers either changing to HD DVD or canceling their BD (HD) orders after the Paramount announcement. We absolutely would not sell the LG unless he customer really had to have one.If Hifi House is recommending the LG, shame on them.

They must LOOOOVE them some Transformers. :rolleyes:

They must LOOOOVE them some Transformers. :rolleyes:

I can't explain it. I can only tell you what happened.

was the article before or after another bd announcement for a 1300 blu ray player....

At least he's reporting the news and not some PR news wire like our friend Lee Stewart here.

At least he's reporting the news and not some PR news wire like our friend Lee Stewart here.

You are kidding right? This is an interview with a single installer. This is like the issue of "it's what I like so everyone should think like me":confused:

You are kidding right? This is an interview with a single installer. This is like the issue of "it's what I like so everyone should think like me":confused:

its not as if he goes out of his way to cover up its speaking to single companies who do installation.....its not as if folks are trying to play it off as nationwide dominance...the article tries to hide nothing, the article IS about single installers, and its relevant.....so now youre bashing the article for being about what its about? It never claims anything greater than what its about.

If this is from a magazine which was hit the streets on the forth there is absolutly no possible way it was written, published and printed after the paramount deal. It takes 4-6 weeks to print and ship even an average sized publication. not to mention the time it took the writter to research and write the article.

One word I am typing a lot over the last week or so is desperate.

There sure are a lot of desperate BD threads and posts.

HD DVD could never survive without the support from... what was the name of that buisness again??

You are kidding right? This is an interview with a single installer. This is like the issue of "it's what I like so everyone should think like me":confused:


Someone's defensive... Its just an article the OP posted, why are your panties in a bunch, fanboy?

HD DVD could never survive without the support from... what was the name of that buisness again??

...and yet they have it. That's the way it goes, it goes that way. ;)

Someone's defensive... Its just an article the OP posted, why are your panties in a bunch, fanboy?

March 2007 - 15 posts. Where you been?

IMO, Any installer who installs a Bluray-only system is compromising their client due to the installer's own preference.

Let's face it, price is not a main object for customer installs. The installer needs to be honest with their clients and, at the very least, recommend a dual-format player, like the Samsung UP5000 or the newer LG player. Next best, is to install a player for each format.

An installer who only installs one format is asking for trouble, I think.

That said, an article written to support a viewpoint that installers should be prefering to install only one format - ie Bluray - whiffs of a bit of bias (and bad advice) on the part of the writer...

March 2007 - 12 posts. Where you been?

Does it matter how much i post. Your resorting to that already? you posted here to flame bait and i called you out. deal with it.

IMO, Any installer who installs a Bluray-only system is compromising their client due to the installer's own preference.

Let's face it, price is not a main object for customer installs. The installer needs to be honest with their clients and, at the very least, recommend a dual-format player, like the Samsung UP5000 or the newer LG player. Next best, is to install a player for each format.

An installer who only installs one format is asking for trouble, I think.

That said, an article written to support a viewpoint that installers should be prefering to install only one format - ie Bluray - whiffs of a bit of bias (and bad advice) on the part of the writer...

Your right but if a customer comes to them and says "i want blu-ray", they give them what they want. At least they offer both formats and a dual.

If this is from a magazine which was hit the streets on the forth there is absolutly no possible way it was written, published and printed after the paramount deal. It takes 4-6 weeks to print and ship even an average sized publication. not to mention the time it took the writter to research and write the article.

One word I am typing a lot over the last week or so is desperate.

There sure are a lot of desperate BD threads and posts.

It's amazing how quickly the landscape changes. I'm sure this article would not read the same were it penned today, any responsible editor would require it reflect the Paramount/Dreamworks + whatever stuff of significance comes out of CEDIA.

Really, the printed page is becoming a rather slowish vehicle for "predictions", and is more useful for in-depth product reviews.

Nowadays this
...why are your panties in a bunch, fanboy?is called... i called you out. deal with it.

Geez, what is the world coming to...

Diogen.

Nowadays this
is called

Geez, what is the world coming to...

Diogen.

Sorry to you, but he does this all the time. Its annoying.

Look at the HTSA's list of product partners, and it's no wonder that they sell a lot more Blu-ray: http://www.htsa.com/manufacturers.php. They probably cringe every time someone in that 6% actively demands an HD DVD player.

Sorry to you, but he does this all the time. Its annoying.

The Ignore feature is always a better option than violating forum rules by making personal attacks. Always.

Does it matter how much i post. Your resorting to that already? you posted here to flame bait and i called you out. deal with it.

Called me out? No - you called me "fanboy" - that is what you called me. And I asked you a question - now who is getting defensive?

Anyone buying McIntosh and Klipsch would have a lot of trouble with paying too little for their gear. There's not going to be a lot of people who can afford to hire HT installers. (I mean as a percentage of buyers of toys).

Price is not a concern for this market, and where price of players is not a concern, HD DVD's #1 main strength disappears.

Anyone buying McIntosh and Klipsch would have a lot of trouble with paying too little for their gear. There's not going to be a lot of people who can afford to hire HT installers. (I mean as a percentage of buyers of toys).

Price is not a concern for this market, and where price of players is not a concern, HD DVD's #1 main strength disappears.

Trouble-free installation? :D

Anyone buying McIntosh and Klipsch would have a lot of trouble with paying too little for their gear. There's not going to be a lot of people who can afford to hire HT installers. (I mean as a percentage of buyers of toys).

Price is not a concern for this market, and where price of players is not a concern, HD DVD's #1 main strength disappears.

I think we can all agree that if someone can afford to hire professional HT installers, then something like the Samsung UP5000 is what they should get.

To pay tens of thousands for a great home theater that can not show Transformers AND PotC would be a huge shame.

If you want to go cheap, DIY and buy HD DVD. If you want to go all out, buy a dual player.

It's amazing how quickly the landscape changes. I'm sure this article would not read the same were it penned today, any responsible editor would require it reflect the Paramount/Dreamworks + whatever stuff of significance comes out of CEDIA.

Really, the printed page is becoming a rather slowish vehicle for "predictions", and is more useful for in-depth product reviews.

i think its possible that print is so slow in this case the editor wouldnt have even had a chance to make a change. It would already be printing durring the Paramount annoucement.

I think we can all agree that if someone can afford to hire professional HT installers, then something like the Samsung UP5000 is what they should get.


To pay "tens of thousands" in there and have anything by Samsung in the rack would be a travesty. These are the people who don't blink at paying $1500+ for a plain DVD player. Integra, and maybe Onkyo, are the answer to their needs from an HDDVD perspective.


If you want to go cheap, DIY and buy HD DVD.

Sounds right.


If you want to go all out, buy Blu-ray.

Fixed. :p

It can be found on page 6 I am told.
~Josh

Who told you? 'Hidden Depth'?? :p

The article amounts to a pebble dropped in the ocean, imo.

To pay "tens of thousands" in there and have anything by Samsung in the rack would be a travesty.
Fixed. :pI feel exactly the same about Sony.

Well if this is the kind of bet he is willing to make, I would tell him to stay away from Vegas. :D

As soon as I saw the title 1 word and 1 word only came to mind....BeatBoy.


:p

Thanks Beatboy.

Wow, you HD-DVD supporters have been really defensive lately. He just posted an article from Video Business Mag, which seem fairly neutral as the installers support both formats and you guys rip him a new one.

To get all defensive from an article like this is immature. Maybe insecure in your format of choice?

Another great thread started by our pal Beatboy77..... :p

wish i could read it :eek::rolleyes:;)

Guess the Paramount announcement was not significant:rolleyes:
Besides the hugh release of Blades of Glory as an HD DVD exclusive, what does this annoucement signify for the format war?:confused:

I haven't seen any real impacts that won't be countered by BD.
Only time will tell and don't say Transvfosmwerz and Shrekerzx will help win the battle when BD has just as big releases coming out.

Until J6P buys into $30 DVD's and split HiDef DVD studio/movie selections, I see no real impact the annoucement will make on the format division.

Thanks Beatboy.

Wow, you HD-DVD supporters have been really defensive lately. He just posted an article from Video Business Mag, which seem fairly neutral as the installers support both formats and you guys rip him a new one.

To get all defensive from an article like this is immature. Maybe insecure in your format of choice?

He deserves "a new one" cause the old one is all stopped up with BS.:p Geeeez.....I never thought I'd be reduced to making posts like this, but...you just gotta go with the times...(sigh)

You are kidding right? This is an interview with a single installer. This is like the issue of "it's what I like so everyone should think like me":confused:

Actually, my reading comprehension abilities were able to pick this out as probably the most important piece of information in the above article:


The Blockbuster announcement was significant, says Richard Glikes, executive director of Home Theater Specialists of America, a 61-member buying group representing a half-billion dollars a year in sales. Though it is too early to tell which of the formats will endure at the mass level, among the customers of these high-end specialists, momentum has definitely swung in one direction. Personally, I think the die has been cast, Glikes says. I surveyed our membership, and 93.95% of the high-definition players they've sold are Blu-ray. Six percent are HD DVD, and a lot of those are the LG combo unit.


$500m a year isn't a huge number when considering the overall market, but the possibility that Toshiba and HD-DVD have lost the High End market to Blu-ray could have implications on which format is percieved by the public as being better qualitatively. The greater name brand support behind Blu-ray hardware should also affect this. The Onkyo HD-DVD player should help this, and probably can't come soon enough for the HD-DVD promo group.

You Die Hards are PATHETIC you should try the "OTHER" format and see what your missing out on..

It's old. Saw this a long time ago. Was I had the link, I have seen this somewhere before.

Man, BD folk are in need of good news. Even the Bland is not his posting self.

It is interesting to see the BD fans being a little more depressed and angry lately. Anyone else notice the change in moods since PDW and all the HDDVD annoucements?

Pwned. Unlee *you saw it a long time ago* before it was published on Sep. 4, 2007??? ROFL

... This is like the issue of "it's what I like so everyone should think like me":confused:

Another quotable quote ... :)

I guess people are finally picking up the idea that Toshiba is not a powerful brand for high-end or early adopters. Perhaps the format HD-DVD is indeed better, but unless you can convince the customer of it, it doesn't matter(I am a BD owner...)

Having Integra and Onkyo onboard might help HD-DVD to gain traction on this market, although Denon support(until it is revoked) to BD certainly reinforces the idea for high-end consumers that BD is a high-end format.(On one side, Sony, Pioneer, Philips and Panasonic, on the other, Toshiba... hum, which brand is more high-endish???) This is just customer perception, nothing else that we can actually argue about.

HD-DVD battle plan is to win out the mid-market and the low end, not to gain traction on the high-end market.(Although they did not gave up on that, if you guys remember them mentioning Meridian...)

Allan

ps. Do HDDVD fans need to win each argument and aspect of this war, even when they don't? Are you guys so fanatic about it????

Come on guys he is reporting the news.

That's right, once again beatboy is reporting breaking news by...linking to an article.

Please.

$500m a year isn't a huge number when considering the overall market, but the possibility that Toshiba and HD-DVD have lost the High End market to Blu-ray could have implications on which format is percieved by the public as being better qualitatively. The greater name brand support behind Blu-ray hardware should also affect this. The Onkyo HD-DVD player should help this, and probably can't come soon enough for the HD-DVD promo group.
Why can't we have Blu-ray for the high-end market and HD-DVD mainstream? Many high-end people do not want J6P to have the same gears anyway.

Is the PS3 considered to be a high end piece of equipment?

Then they (the high-end-ers) will have to lobby for the PS3 to take a different drive, HD-DVD maybe?

Why can't we have Blu-ray for the high-end market and HD-DVD mainstream? Many high-end people do not want J6P to have the same gears anyway.

Because most want their "higher end" gear to have more features/better performance than "lower end" gear.

The Blockbuster announcement was significant, says Richard Glikes, executive director of Home Theater Specialists of America, a 61-member buying group representing a half-billion dollars a year in sales. Though it is too early to tell which of the formats will endure at the mass level, among the customers of these high-end specialists, momentum has definitely swung in one direction. Personally, I think the die has been cast, Glikes says. I surveyed our membership, and 93.95% of the high-definition players they've sold are Blu-ray. Six percent are HD DVD, and a lot of those are the LG combo unit.
http://internetcommunications.tmcnet.com/news/2007/09/04/2910321.htm


What this tells me is that their membership is out of touch with the market. YTD sales numbers are 55% HD DVD (not counting XBox 360 Add-On), 42% BD (not counting PS3), and 3% dual-format. If they have really avoided selling any HD DVD players, then it sounds like the Home Theater Specialists have missed the market pretty badly........:confused:

i think its possible that print is so slow in this case the editor wouldnt have even had a chance to make a change. It would already be printing durring the Paramount annoucement.

Correct. Video Business is a nationally circulated publication. If this issue was supposed to be delivered to readers at the beginning of this week, it would have had to have been printed no later than the beginning-middle of last week. This means final press checks and last-minute changes had to be done even earlier. The cost of making any changes at the press stage is extremely high and would only be done if there is a blatant factual error that can't wait until the next issue for correction or retraction. From what I read, there wasn't anything in the article that would have justified doing this, especially given the fact that the target audience is much more well-informed about the Paramount/Dreamworks situation than J6P. We should keep in mind that this is a TRADE periodical. as such, there are certain assumptions that are made regarding the knowledge base of the intended reader.

March 2007 - 15 posts. Where you been?

He Has A Life...

He Has A Life...

Exactly! :D

http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/1008/1008_jenkins.jpg

was the article before or after another bd announcement for a 1300 blu ray player....

You mean the Sony ES model for $1,300.00 that is STILL only a profile 1.0 compliant player. :p :eek: :D

What this tells me is that their membership is out of touch with the market. YTD sales numbers are 55% HD DVD (not counting XBox 360 Add-On), 42% BD (not counting PS3), and 3% dual-format. If they have really avoided selling any HD DVD players, then it sounds like the Home Theater Specialists have missed the market pretty badly........:confused:That tells HD DVD is losing a big opportunity of profitability.

That tells HD DVD is losing a big opportunity of profitability.

I'm not sure that's true. How much of the market do these custom shops have? They may sell most of the high-$$$ stuff, but isn't the bulk of their revenues from installation, design, service, etc.? My impression has been that the vast majority of equipment purchases are made with the big retailers. Thus, it might hurt HD DVD during the early adoption phase, but really have little to no impact once we move beyond that point.

It drives me nuts when people use % and not numbers. How about, this org that comprises .5% of the market has sold $90K of BD players and 10K HD DVD players....now that would be reality. Instead of using % to drive a PR agenda. Hey, I working in marketing, I know :)

It drives me nuts when people use % and not numbers. How about, this org that comprises .5% of the market has sold $90K of BD players and 10K HD DVD players....now that would be reality. Instead of using % to drive a PR agenda. Hey, I working in marketing, I know :)

Fantasy Statement From Amazon Concerning Sales of PS3 After the Price Cut:

"Sales of the PS3 are up 700%!"

Reality of the Situation:

"Last week we sold 10. This week we sold 70"

So which sounds better?:D

IMO, Any installer who installs a Bluray-only system is compromising their client due to the installer's own preference.

Let's face it, price is not a main object for customer installs. The installer needs to be honest with their clients and, at the very least, recommend a dual-format player, like the Samsung UP5000 or the newer LG player. Next best, is to install a player for each format.

An installer who only installs one format is asking for trouble, I think.Exactly. I can't believe we have three pages of people arguing over this. The customerbase for these installers is made up of people with money, many of whom probably are unaware of the format war. And I'd say that most of them also want a high degree of usability. The $600 difference between a standalone Blu-ray player and a combo player would be inconsequential in their overall bill. They'll want to watch any movie they want and to pop the disc in and go. Any installer who doesn't go with a combo player (or two separate players for those who demand the best and don't mind the added hassle of having to know which player to pop the disc into) isn't very good at what they do.