There are two kinds of thinkers, IMO, here at AVS:

The Macro Thinker - sees the "big" picture. Looks at the entire "battlefield." Sees not only the present but also the future.

The Micro Thinker - looks at specifications. Focus's on the day to day goings on.

So are you viewing the Format War using a Microscope? Or a Telescope?

Opinions? Comments?

The Macro Thinker - sees the "big" picture. Looks at the entire "battlefield." Sees not only the present but also the future.

Both will survive....I'm just waiting for a dual format player under $500 that isn't made by Sony.

The Macro Thinker - sees the "big" picture. Looks at the entire "battlefield." Sees not only the present but also the future.

Both will survive....I'm just waiting for a dual format player under $500 that isn't made by Sony.

Ditto. Both will survive and I want both to survive. Competition is good. This is what drive price down and creates innovation. And if EA can create 4 or 5 versions of Madden 08, then a studio can put out 4 or 5 versions of a film.

Long term strategies are prices to compete with SD DVD and features that FAR surpass DVD. That is the REAL battlefield.

Ditto. Both will survive and I want both to survive. Competition is good. This is what drive price down and creates innovation. And if EA can create 4 or 5 versions of Madden 08, then a studio can put out 4 or 5 versions of a film.

Long term strategies are prices to compete with SD DVD and features that FAR surpass DVD. That is the REAL battlefield.

I agree the competition has been great so far, but I think we are fast approaching a point where exclusive studios are going to muddy this for j6p.

Prices can only go so low.

And IMO HDM cannot fight on the battlefield with DVD when only 35% of US households have HDTV's.

There are two kinds of thinkers, IMO, here at AVS:

The Macro Thinker - sees the "big" picture. Looks at the entire "battlefield." Sees not only the present but also the future.

The Micro Thinker - looks at specifications. Focus's on the day to day goings on.

So are you viewing the Format War using a Microscope? Or a Telescope?

Opinions? Comments?

I feel I am a combination of both. I look at the various day to day battles which will have an impact on the overall War. It is neat to see how both sides continue to pound the hell out of eachother and watch as momentum sways back and forth. It will be interesting to see how this whole things plays out.

Until this format war the Internet was simply a source of information for me (research, driving directions, online business, etc.) but I have say it is now a source of true entertainment. I am on the net more so then in front of the television now. Anyone similar? God this is Fun!

~Josh

Macro.

I'm actually in agreement with you in principle, Lee, despite our opposing views on which format is superior in the long run. I think both formats are plunging headlong toward niche status with the way things are going right now, at least for the forseeable future. I see little chance of mass market traction occurring this holiday season, despite everything both sides are trying to do. Software pricing remains too high, hardware pricing is still too high, and there's still not enough educated consumers out there.

That's not to say that this Christmas isn't important; naturally it is. But the same market forces that keep the majority of consumers on the sidelines persist today: pricing, confusion, and most importantly ... indifference.

+1...sadly

Macro.

I'm actually in agreement with you in principle, Lee, despite our opposing views on which format is superior in the long run. I think both formats are plunging headlong toward niche status with the way things are going right now, at least for the forseeable future. I see little chance of mass market traction occurring this holiday season, despite everything both sides are trying to do. Software pricing remains too high, hardware pricing is still too high, and there's still not enough educated consumers out there.

That's not to say that this Christmas isn't important; naturally it is. But the same market forces that keep the majority of consumers on the sidelines persist today: pricing, confusion, and most importantly ... indifference.

Ice:

No matter which side we root for - it is a game . . . a war, and we do need to look at where ha has been, where it is now, and most important - where it is going.

Good post, IMO. I agree with you 100%

I be a Macro thinker also.

Definitely Macro. I don't understand the constant posts on daily sales figures, upcoming release dates, what release has what type of A/V codec, who's "lying" in their press releases, anecdotal buying experiences, petitions, etc. By virtue of their free membership on a hobbyist bulletin board, far too many people have anointed themselves insiders and experts and believe their hourly updates are contributing to "the cause". Truth is 0, none, nada of this will impact the success, or lack thereof, of hidef DVD.

I don't agree that two formats (macro issue) is ultimately a good thing. Initially, sure - competition helps refine what the market values. Incompatible formats, relatively high price (will stay that way until it reaches mass market status), shelf space issues, the success of SD DVD, customer confusion, complexity (just watch the face of the average homeowner when they see the back of an A/V receiver or they try to decipher which audio mode to listen with), dueling Directors, studio splits, etc. is a poor business plan for new technology adoption.

a little of both.

As a buyer for Video store a number of years ago, I watched the DVD/DivX battle closely, weighed the benefits, watched the sales, shelf allocations, rental profits, etc.

Early adopters talk to friends and influence the Micro.

Big Box stores make choices and Studios make deals that influence the Macro.

Superior products can die (Beta, LaserDisk) when licensing of technology or user complications scare the general user off.

There are still issues on both Micro and Macro that can influence the outcome IMO.

I'm in it only for the movies. For me, StarWars, Aliens, LoA, IndyJones, Spielbergs all should have street dates, and my thinking is always geared towards how can I get these movies all on HDM in my hands.

If we could get the BDA and HD-DVD group together to agree to disagree and both exclusively build combo players, this could all end well. Of course, we'd need a final spec for blu-ray first. :D

Why should the BDA agree to any position that only benefits HDDVD?

Both. More interested in the Macro, but a war is made up of many battles.

Ditto..the false analysis by the posters above is likened to watching a stock on Wall street in 1 second increments through the course of a year...? Microanalysis of a huge, long term event.....sometimes I wonder what some folks here are thinking.... No idea of the big picture.

Heh, at 3:25 yesterday, the HD DVD player drawer stuttered for a second and then continued to operate.......Advantage Blu Ray!!

This earlier post may've been the impedus for this thread.

Most here, even some who've posted here are really microanalyzers in my opinion.

A big picture vantage point is what we need more of and will cut down on a lot of the garbage in this particular forum.

Although I think their is much posturing on the micro side, I tend to lean on the macro school of thought. I believe the war has been and continues to be good for the consumer. At the same time I think it will be great for the studios that have picked sides for the macro aspect. The reason is if there side loses, they will get to resell their libraries all over again in the format that won. On the micro side, the winner is Warner Brothers. They are winning right now and selling the most media by catering to both.

I take a Macro approach when I look at the industry as a whole... and I take a Micro approach when I look at the pea-brained fanboys on both sides.

Macro - I like the HD format (do not care if it is BR or HDDVD) but do not believe both formats can co-exist more than a couple of years. Mass adoption is the key to success because the price of hardware/software comes down to affordable levels with mass adoption/production. The HDM format is superior to SD DVD, but not enough so that the sales numbers of players and discs can rival that of SD HW/SW anytime soon. Something has to give. If dual format players come down to $199, and dual format discs become the norm, then either Sony or Toshiba will have to cave in order to maximize profit. They are in this for the money, not our happiness. I look at these HD forums every other day or so and it is pretty tiresome reading the flaming, pro/con video/audio of the formats by their loyal if not zealous fan base. I have a Toshiba A2 and will likely pick up a dual format player in the next year. But I really do not have a dog in this fight (does anyone on AVS?) - I own no Sony, Universal, Toshiba, Panasonic stock. I just want the best picture possible for the least amount of money and would like to sit back and watch. The bickering, debating, flaming, sales projections, sales figures, speculation seem like such a waste of time. I come here hoping to learn something and AVS has helped me make informed purchases of HT/Audio gear based on many intelligent posts by the members. But reading some of the posts on the HDM threads have the ring of political proselytizing which is a lot like eating cotton candy - big mass, little of substance and in the end, just a useless cardboard stick.

Macro.

However, I do take issue with people who think both formats will co-exist, at least long term. This flies completely in the face of every bit of historical evidence we have for video formats. Eventually one becomes dominant and then the other goes the way of the dinosaur. Traditionally this has always been the one that sells more discs consistently (though this may not be the case if BD-50 production is high priced and produces such low yields as is rumored). If both formats do survive (I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying that it's improbable in the long term) then HDM will remain a very niche product.

Micro

Along with everyone else who posts and looks at the HDTV Software Forums every day.

What boggles my mind is how some people think this war will be over within the next 2 years.

I mean maybe in 5 or 10 years, one will eventually knock out the other. But in the short term, with both sides announcing hundreds of titles, and both sides coming out with brand new players, this thing will continue for at least a couple of years, NO QUESTION!

Opinion? This thread is dumb....Must be a slow news day

Ya know what the problem with the Macro thinker is? Its no fun.

I mean to only look at the 'big' picture, is boring, unless you have a time machine and can fast forward to see what happens.

The fun is seeing each side pummel each other in Press Releases every week, the fun is analyzing each new player and release and seeing how they match up.

Thats fun, and thats why this forum has exploded in the last year or so.

Micro for entertainment. Thank you fanboys!!! Without y'all for entertainment, I would have to get off my butt and do some work.

Macro for rational. The jerk factor is important when buying high tech. ("Six months from now will I look back and feel like a jerk.")

Competition will rule (price.) HDM vs DVD (price.) Piracy vs studio's DRM (price.) $ony vs M$ (price.) To$h vs $ony (price.) HD-DVD vs BRD (price.)

The future has been bought and paid for (already.) Both will survive (for years.) HDM will beat DVD. (Studios want DRM ($$$.) They can slowly suppress DVD as HDM gets phased in. Piracy will only be controlled by HDM pricing. Or is it HDM pricing will only be controlled by piracy.

Have fun, be a fanboy. Just say no to HDTV. (Can I get on a tier for both BD & HDDVD?)

...posts on the HDM threads have the ring of political proselytizing which is a lot like eating cotton candy - big mass, little of substance and in the end, just a useless cardboard stick.

SWEET!!! Another day made by an AVS's poster.

Ditto. Both will survive and I want both to survive. Competition is good. This is what drive price down and creates innovation. And if EA can create 4 or 5 versions of Madden 08, then a studio can put out 4 or 5 versions of a film.

Long term strategies are prices to compete with SD DVD and features that FAR surpass DVD. That is the REAL battlefield.


Yes but Madden costs $49.99-$59.99 per format...