If you go here http://www.engadgethd.com/gallery/hands-on-with-sonys-bdp-s2000es-blu-ray-player/385092/

You will notice that on the back of the unit it reads "Java Powered"

Does this mean that it is 1.1? Could it mean that?

CEDIA Day 2 has so far shown NOTHING of interest for Bluray or HDDVD

Did I miss something?

They are all Java powered. Unless they specifically say it is 1.1 or 2.0 compliant, it probably isn't.
j

With all the recent trash talking about interactivity and the like, you can bet your ass that if those new players were 1.1 they damn well would have said it.

Not to mention, I believe one of the insiders (paid?) over on blu-ray.com said they were not.

If the release/street date is in October - probably not.

Don't tell me EVERY Blu-Ray player manufacturer is rushing out these players to beat the 1.1 deadline. What a disgrace, are there going to be ANY 1.1 compliant players this holiday season?

Yeah, a $2000 Denon. LOL!!!

Don't tell me EVERY Blu-Ray player manufacturer is rushing out these players to beat the 1.1 deadline. What a disgrace, are there going to be ANY 1.1 compliant players this holiday season?

Maybe - still waiting to hear from Broadcom on the Sam. 5000 and LG B200

I can't imagine why would someone spend hundreds of dollars ($700 or more) in new players that are still below profile 2.0

Even if Blu-ray were to be the 7th wonder... these players are still incomplete the way I see it. And I am not discussing BD X HD DVD here. I just think it is so ridiculous of the BDA supporters releasing "great" players who are not yet the final thing. Clearly. What? An ES type player that is not profile 2.0? Couldn't they wait?

These brands are releasing player after player... like if they were DVD players. Couldn't they wait and get profile 2.0 everywhere?

When is BD going to be ready for launch? Hilarious how many people bought alpha products to beta test for $ony.

I can't imagine why would someone spend hundreds of dollars ($700 or more) in new players that are still below profile 2.0

Even if Blu-ray were to be the 7th wonder... these players are still incomplete the way I see it. And I am not discussing BD X HD DVD here. I just think it is so ridiculous of the BDA supporters releasing "great" players who are not yet the final thing. Clearly.

I hate to have to agree with you.

Don't tell me EVERY Blu-Ray player manufacturer is rushing out these players to beat the 1.1 deadline. What a disgrace, are there going to be ANY 1.1 compliant players this holiday season?

Shake the magic eight ball "outlook not good".

My suspicion is that in spite of people's willingness to push internet port and pip as critical must have features, there are people who don't even have ethernet ports near their HT shelves, nor do they have a lot of use for PiP.

It could just be that noone who buys either players really care about this.

Otoh, the studios seem to care about these things, so we'll have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I've yet to see anything on HDM described that comes even close to a laptop running IE7 or Firefox on 802.11G. The internet's a very big place, and even if they add a full web browser in these players, there's still no keyboards.

WebTV is dead, don't try to bring it back to life. It died for a very good reason.

1.1 players are unlikely until the players go through the official testing in Japan next month.

My suspicion is that in spite of people's willingness to push internet port and pip as critical must have features, there are people who don't even have ethernet ports near their HT shelves, nor do they have a lot of use for PiP.

Your suspicion is probably correct about the internet port. I didn't, but I moved my wireless router to behind my TV when I got the A2. With cable internet, it's really no issue since all of our computers have wireless. I'm sure connected homes have internet access where they need it, and having it at the HD player is no different than adding a computer in a new location. IMO, it would be wise to have wireless ethernet on all players, and I suspect we will in the not to distant future.

As for whether people have use for these features, how in the world would we know? It's easy to say these things don't matter, but since they don't exist on the format, there's no way to know how they're affecting overall adoption. What we do know is the lack of features is keeping a number of WB titles from being released on BD.

BTW, the press release for the new LG dual player specifically uses the term "BD Live," and it is shipping in October. I'd like to see specific verification of this, but for now I'm assuming it will be 2.0 compliant.

BTW, the press release for the new LG dual player specifically uses the term "BD Live," and it is shipping in October. I'd like to see specific verification of this, but for now I'm assuming it will be 2.0 compliant.Agreed, but some of these companies are more conservative than others with announcements. If LG believes it will be compliant based on their own testing they may be willing to announce this as a marketing point; other companies may not be willing to risk that the compliance testing may have issues that they would then have to explain. If final compliance testing is indeed in Sept/Oct (I forget the rumored time), then once this is complete you may see a slew of announcements from more conservatively managed companies who have the hardware in place but aren't willing to risk advertising it and getting egg on their faces should there be any delay.

If final compliance testing is indeed in Sept/Oct (I forget the rumored time),

Posted by member amillians (alex) elsewhere
Good news for BD-Live

The SCG on 8/28 issued a call for participants for PG3 FSP RRT2 and PG3 LIVE RRT1, with the plugfest for both to be held 9/19-9/20 in Tokyo under Sony's watchful eye...the results for both are due back 10/5.


ted

If you go here http://www.engadgethd.com/gallery/hands-on-with-sonys-bdp-s2000es-blu-ray-player/385092/

You will notice that on the back of the unit it reads "Java Powered"

Does this mean that it is 1.1? Could it mean that?

CEDIA Day 2 has so far shown NOTHING of interest for Bluray or HDDVD

Did I miss something?

BD-JAVA 1.0 - sad git...

How on earth do you post nonsense like this?

I can't imagine why would someone spend hundreds of dollars ($700 or more) in new players that are still below profile 2.0

Even if Blu-ray were to be the 7th wonder... these players are still incomplete the way I see it. And I am not discussing BD X HD DVD here. I just think it is so ridiculous of the BDA supporters releasing "great" players who are not yet the final thing. Clearly. What? An ES type player that is not profile 2.0? Couldn't they wait?

These brands are releasing player after player... like if they were DVD players. Couldn't they wait and get profile 2.0 everywhere?

the players are targetted at the 'uninformed' ;) . Any how if a consumer would go for a 2x more expensive player with less feature, we can bet that he or she is 'uninformed' or simply dun care. You know, extremely rich people that have so many money they dun know where to spend the money :p

the players are targetted at the 'uninformed' ;) . Any how if a consumer would go for a 2x more expensive player with less feature, we can bet that he or she is 'uninformed' or simply dun care. You know, extremely rich people that have so many money they dun know where to spend the money :p

It's also a great selling scam. Get people hooked with the incomplete player. They get locked in to BR because they own a bunch of discs. Then you make there old player semi-obsolete, by offering new features that it can't do. The sucker then buys a news player, but guess what? Six months later profile 2.0 comes out, and they are stuck again.

The BR plan is to have people buy a new player every year. Car companies have been doing it for years. Now Blu-Ray is going to try it.

A question for ALL the BD fans out there . . .

What was the purpose of having 3 profiles to begin with?

It's also a great selling scam. Get people hooked with the incomplete player. They get locked in to BR because they own a bunch of discs. Then you make there old player semi-obsolete, by offering new features that it can't do. The sucker then buys a news player, but guess what? Six months later profile 2.0 comes out, and they are stuck again.

The BR plan is to have people buy a new player every year. Car companies have been doing it for years. Now Blu-Ray is going to try it.


Or you can not give a crap about PiP and be happy with your player.;)

Or you can not give a crap about PiP and be happy with your player.;)

Hmmmmmmm . . . .

Or you can not give a crap about Lossless Audio and enjoy the movie.:p

Hmmmmmmm . . . .

Or you can not give a crap about Lossless Audio and enjoy the movie.:p

Lossless audio >>>>>>>> PiP IMO.

And don't forget audio is part of the movie, PiP is an unnecessary addition. I may be sold when PiP pops up at my local Cinemark or Loewes. :P

Lossless audio >>>>>>>> PiP IMO.

And don't forget audio is part of the movie, PiP is an unnecessary addition. I may be sold when PiP pops up at my local Cinemark or Loewes. :P

So how do you stand going to the movies and listening to DD5.1? That must be a terrible experience for you:rolleyes:

My Panasonic has Java logos all over the box it came in but is not 1.1 compliant. It will play the Java based games on BLU-RAY discs like the POTC series. This is the part that is powered by Java.

Or you can not give a crap about PiP and be happy with your player.;)

Some will - The same people who keep their cars for 10 years and still use Windows/Office 98. Sadly, a lot of people who have to have the newest stuff will fall for it and buy new players just to be "current".

Then they will do it again for profile 2.0.:(

So how do you stand going to the movies and listening to DD5.1? That must be a terrible experience for you:rolleyes:


I actually only went to 1 movie this year in theaters. Bourne.

My home "cinema" is my preferred place to watch movies. Theater sound is decent, mine is better. And if it can be lossless, then it is the BEST. :)

Some will - The same people who keep their cars for 10 years and still use Windows/Office 98. Sadly, a lot of people who have to have the newest stuff will fall for it and buy new players just to be "current".

Then they will do it again for profile 2.0.:(

Oh I don't doubt that people will buy new players, and I also know that it would have been much better for BR to release a more complete spec.

But for me, PiP is irrelevant. I was full bore going to get the Sammy DF player, but the new ES player has caused me to pause :(.


If ANY player could internally decode DTS HDMA for less than or equal to $1000 I would probably have to buy it though.


I also prefer the BR movie selection >:(

I just want this to end.

I actually only went to 1 movie this year in theaters. Bourne.

My home "cinema" is my preferred place to watch movies. Theater sound is decent, mine is better. And if it can be lossless, then it is the BEST. :)

With DD5.1 I get full channel seperation. ALL movies use manufactured sound. They do NOT use real life sounds. Know what a Foley Artist is? Ever see an TV specials that show Foley Artists doing ther work?

Ever hear of ADR (Auto. Dialog Replacement)? Ever see the actors adding their voices to already filmed scenes?

Do you really believe that every car in a car accident explodes, shooting the car 20 feet in the air?

Just the simple fact that over 75% of a movie's total revenue comes from the Home Video market should give you an idea how important special features can be.

A lack of lossless simply isn't going to impact the average consumer, who is the person we should all be concerned about, if we want our format of choice to be successful. Added value content doesn't require any extra equipment investment to fully appreciate, while lossless does. Why would studios invest in producing advanced content for the Java environment, if there's no platform consistency in the marketplace?
It would make more economic sense for them to assume a lowest common denominator hardware profile and accordingly create a lower level of content inclusion for BD releases.

With DD5.1 I get full channel seperation. ALL movies use manufactured sound. They do NOT use real life sounds. Know what a Foley Artist is? Ever see an TV specials that show Foley Artists doing ther work?

Ever hear of ADR (Auto. Dialog Replacement)? Ever see the actors adding their voices to already filmed scenes?

Do you really believe that every car in a car accident explodes, shooting the car 20 feet in the air?

Just the simple fact that over 75% of a movie's total revenue comes from the Home Video market should give you an idea how important special features can be.


You act like I am refuting that some people love special features. Or that studios don't like them. I am not saying that at all. I clearly said that IMO lossless (or AQ in general) is much more important than PiP for me. It is ALL about the movie watching experience for me.

I just don't care how the special effects were done, or the director telling me why he did this or that.

Of couse I know what a foley stage is.

You mean to tell me that people don't knock helicopters out of the air with cars every day??? (Die Hard 4)

I call bullsh*t. :D


And for the record I don't believe that every explosion shoots cars 20 feet into the air, but I do believe that every explosion shoots every car at least 30 feet.

A question for ALL the BD fans out there . . .

What was the purpose of having 3 profiles to begin with?

Still waiting for an answer on this one

A lack of lossless simply isn't going to impact the average consumer, who is the person we should all be concerned about, if we want our format of choice to be successful. Added value content doesn't require any extra equipment investment to fully appreciate, while lossless does. Why would studios invest in producing advanced content for the Java environment, if there's no platform consistency in the marketplace?
It would make more economic sense for them to assume a lowest common denominator hardware profile and accordingly create a lower level of content inclusion for BD releases.


That is the problem with these 2 formats. They are catering to the masses and the masses don't care.

The early adopters are who need to be catered to at this point. HD DVD has done it with xtras and not so much audio. BR has done it with audio and no PiP.

It actually amazes me how many people here are not OK with BR not having PiP. But they are ok with lossy audio. I understand it takes more or better equip to enjoy. But do none of you have the ability to hear lossess on your equip?

If you don't have the ability now, do you NEVER plan on getting the ability?

I just find this hard to believe.

Still waiting for an answer on this one


That's easy, because they had to hurry to get to market, and they wanted to make it look like they had an effective plan in place for "catching up" to the 1 aspect of the "battle" that they were lacking in.

That's easy, because they had to hurry to get to market, and they wanted to make it look like they had an effective plan in place for "catching up" to the 1 aspect of the "battle" that they were lacking in.

I believe the specs and profiles for BD were setup in 2005. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Once the July 2007 deadline was missed on the profiles - they did do an "upgrade" to BD specs concerning the definition of both 1.0 and 1.1.

I do not believe you have answered my question.

I believe the specs and profiles for BD were setup in 2005. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Once the July 2007 deadline was missed on the profiles - they did do an "upgrade" to BD specs concerning the definition of both 1.0 and 1.1.

I do not believe you have answered my question.


Because the specs were finalized does not mean they were tested.

I can say right now "I want a player to have a 60g hard drive" But I can't tell you how it will interact with what is currently in place. They were obviously pushing it out so that they could procrastinate. Now the time is coming and you still see no players.

There are "3" specs because that way people think there is a plan in place. (which there seems to be) Just because the plan is there doesn't mean that it is a succesful one.

You are thinking too much about this, which is what the BDA wanted you to do. They have set goals and parameters, but are obviously having trouble implementing them. As evidenced by the lack of players.

...I do not believe you have answered my question.

I'll answer it.

Back in the 1920s Ford was top dog, but their Model T had a finalzied spec., and so it never changed. GM took advantage of this. They started to update their models anually and add new features. They advertised about how you had to have the latest model, and last year's was outdated.

Because of this GM quickly took over as the largest car manufacturer, and Ford fell to #2.

Sony and the BDA like this story. They feel that HDM players should be updated every year. Sure the old ones will still work, but they'll tell you that you really want the newest version.

Next we will see leasing.:eek:

IMO . . . .

If BD had won very early in the war - say by March 2007 then we would have seen:

CES 2007 - 1.0 BD Players
CES 2008 - 1.1 BD Players
CES 2009 - 2.0 BD Players

Just my opinion of course. But it sure does fit with the BDA mantra of BD CEM's selling lots of players at high prices.

IMO . . . .

If BD had won very early in the war - say by March 2007 then we would have seen:

CES 2007 - 1.0 BD Players
CES 2008 - 1.1 BD Players
CES 2009 - 2.0 BD Players

Just my opinion of course. But it sure does fit with the BDA mantra of BD CEM's selling lots of players at high prices.

But i'm pretty sure, at least the higher end models like Denon would have offered a "consumer friendly upgrade policy". For only 299$ you would have been able to buy the upgrade kits for the better profile. It´s future proof, baby!
:D

That is the problem with these 2 formats. They are catering to the masses and the masses don't care.

The early adopters are who need to be catered to at this point. HD DVD has done it with xtras and not so much audio. BR has done it with audio and no PiP.

It actually amazes me how many people here are not OK with BR not having PiP. But they are ok with lossy audio. I understand it takes more or better equip to enjoy. But do none of you have the ability to hear lossess on your equip?

If you don't have the ability now, do you NEVER plan on getting the ability?

I just find this hard to believe.

My equipment isn't the issue, as it's fully capable of resolving the theoretical benefits of lossless. I've been "upgrading" for over 30 years, and simply believe that "lossless" is of dubious real-world benefit, over the latest developments in psychoacoustical compression techniques. I'll take it, sure, but it's absence on a particular release doesn't concern me in the slightest. *shrug*

That's it. I'm switching to UMD. Now even the red crowd has to worry about that T51 disc(maybe it exists, maybe not, i still worry). I own red and blu and all this stuff makes me want to close my amazon account. Good Grief.