good to know - thanks

I had the Oppo 971 and liked it a lot and the great customer service.
However, my display didn't care for the Faroudja chip too much - some macroblocking issues

So, I bought a Toshiba A2/D2 and it was an improvement in upconversion for me.
So , I bought the Toshiba A20 ( with an ABT chip ) which was better still

So, I have recently bought the Toshiba XA2 for the Silicon Optix Reon HQV chip and I perceive an even better upconversion performance
( brighter, stronger color, and what I would call more depth to the image - I really like the last part :D )

I'm all for High Definition but the fact is I have a small but loveable SD dvd collection in which no titles ( except Star Trek TOS ) have been released or even announced
not to mention this whole war sucks big time ( potential titles wanted on both sides )

Therefore, SD dvd upconversion is most important to me right now
I can't go back, after seeing what the XA2 can do, but I could settle for a cheaper price with the same or better upconversion from the Oppo 983
( which uses a different/better ABT chip then the A20 , correct ? )

I'm quite happy with the XA2 but would hate to find there is something better and cheaper out there

I suppose I won't know for sure until the 983 is released and in AVS members hands :confused:

A20 only had ABT scaling, not deinterlacing. Deinterlacing is by far the more important of the two. I'd say 90% deinterlacing, 10% scaling importance. Reon/Realta do both.

really, deinterlacing is more important ?
I do learn a lot here :o

I knew the ABT was only for scaling and the NEC was for deinterlacing ( in the A20 ) but didn't realize the importance of the latter

I suppose thats why I perceive an improvement with the Reon

Looks like the Oppo 983 will be a great buy if it equals or surpasses the XA2
The AVS is great but it can make your head hurt with searching for the best within your budget - making buying electronics a seemingly monumental decision at times :p

thanks for the info

by the way, I'd love to see the Realta in action - but it is most definetly out of range for me

A20 only had ABT scaling, not deinterlacing. Deinterlacing is by far the more important of the two. I'd say 90% deinterlacing, 10% scaling importance. Reon/Realta do both.

really, deinterlacing is more important ? You BET it is!

Gary

ABT scalinging is good, but companies like Lumagen are known for their scaling.

ABT deinterlacing is how much better than Faroudja? Will one notice a difference versus HQV and Reon?

Many HD DVD and Blu Ray players have these in addition to the better format?

HDXA2 and BD1200 makes an expensive 983 a waste of money? Please don't give me the SACD and DVDA and USB and card reader thing. Pick up a used 970 for older stuff and prolong th elife of your better piece of equipment.

ABT deinterlacing is how much better than Faroudja? Will one notice a difference versus HQV and Reon?

How does 100/100 on Secrets of Home Theater Hi-Fi (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=128#DVDOiScan%20VP30%20HD%20Video%20Processor%20wit h%20ABT%20Precision%20De-interlacing%20(HDMI)) sound?

is there any idea if this player will be release in 07 or 08?

is there any idea if this player will be release in 07 or 08?

Yes. Definately will be released in 07 or 08.

Yes. Definately will be released in 07 or 08.Neuromancer on page ONE of this thread stated Dec 07 to be the 983 release date. With ALL due respect Anthony A have you read ALL the nine pages of this thread? I have the 981. Earlier today I found out about the 980 and shortly thereafter I found out about the 983.
I am excited to read about this 983. Except for NOT being HD this player seems to be the cat's meoW!

How does 100/100 on Secrets of Home Theater Hi-Fi (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=128#DVDOiScan%20VP30%20HD%20Video%20Processor%20wit h%20ABT%20Precision%20De-interlacing%20(HDMI)) sound?

It means pretty much nothing. We have to assume that Oppo integrates the ABT chip correctly and I'd expect that both companies would make sure of that.
Faroudja 96 vs DVDO/ABT 100 means.. not much.

This is a deinterlacing "score" not a picture quality "score." I remember Kris going blue in the face trying to stress that. The "score" was only put in to appease the forum masses.
The Faroudja failed subtitle synch and was borderline on recovery. Not much picture quality there.

If it's not $200 or less, I see low volume sales.

The price is warned to go up on these units. I see it as a bad move.

We haven't heard, but I would not expect them to. For one thing, it's being based on the 980H platform, which is v1.2. For another, the expense of changing to v1.3 wouldn't really provide any benefit. HDMI v1.3 would allow for support for TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams (which aren't available on DVD, thus not a factor here), deep color (also not available on DVD, thus not really useful), CEC (which is still an evolving standard riddled with proprietary manufacturer implementations and seems to create more problems than it solves in the instances when it does show up), and automatic lip sync adjustment (assuming that every other component in the signal path also supports it). In each case, the presence of an HDMI v1.3 transmitter chip alone doesn't create any of those features (assuming they are even possible in a DVD player), so you'd still have to include the relevent features once you had a v1.3 chip. If they were building the platform from scratch, I might see using a v1.3 chip if it happened to be convenient, but I wouldn't think it would make sense to change to one with a recently refined v1.2 platform as a basis for this product.


Agreed ... except for the Deep Color point. Using 10-bit (or greater) values when scaling, and then outputting the results directly could actually yield a slight improvement in image quality.

Neuromancer on page ONE of this thread stated Dec 07 to be the 983 release date. With ALL due respect Anthony A have you read ALL the nine pages of this thread?

Once you get past 5 pages, I can understand users missing information. There is a lot of material to read through and I do not mind duplicate questions. Unless, that is, the question and answer were handled several pages ago, then flames start shooting out of my fingers!

Except for NOT being HD this player seems to be the cat's meoW!

Patience young Skywalker.

It means pretty much nothing. We have to assume that Oppo integrates the ABT chip correctly and I'd expect that both companies would make sure of that.
Faroudja 96 vs DVDO/ABT 100 means.. not much.

This is a deinterlacing "score" not a picture quality "score." I remember Kris going blue in the face trying to stress that. The "score" was only put in to appease the forum masses.
The Faroudja failed subtitle synch and was borderline on recovery. Not much picture quality there.

If it's not $200 or less, I see low volume sales.

The price is warned to go up on these units. I see it as a bad move.

Yes. Secrets is a good place to see how the players do with the tests Kris, Stacey, et. al. had performed. I'm not taking anything away from the newer players, but there were players that scored in the 90s 4-5 years ago and some of the test have nothing to do with video performance. It's kind of hard to add new test to help compare the newer deinterlacers without invalidating the rest. We know the HQV and ABT deinterlacers are excellent and the corresponding scalers are excellent also. Splitting hairs is all that can be done comparing when they're setup properly. :)

Price is a market thing. No matter what price it comes out at it will be too high for somebody and they'll proclaim that Oppo has made huge mistake and is destined for failure. So far Oppo doesn't seem to be failing...

larry

Patience young Sky Walker.

????????????????????????

????????????????????????

Luke Skywalker was a character in the famous trilogy of films by the name of Star Wars... produced by George Lucas. The analogy would represent that the Skywalker character was very young and inexperienced, yet still intelligent. As a young man he would be impatient a lot of the time because of his lack of "life experience" in which he would learn that in time, if patience is exerted, good things will eventually come.;)

Luke Skywalker was a character in the famous trilogy of films by the name of Star Wars... produced by George Lucas. The analogy would represent that the Skywalker character was very young and inexperienced, yet still intelligent. As a young man he would be impatient a lot of the time because of his lack of "like experience" in which he would learn that in time, if patience is exerted, good things will eventually come.;)
im not trying to be offensive, but how can someone in this day and age not know who luke skywalker is?

There would be no purpose to going with HDMI 1.3 other than to have a check mark that no one else has.
I know that Samsung's 1080p7 is HDMI 1.3. I believe it's for the CEC, but of course, Samsung is going to dupe as many as they can with that 1.3 labeling. Unfortunate for those who don't know what HDMI 1.3 is and it's flavors.

It means pretty much nothing. We have to assume that Oppo integrates the ABT chip correctly and I'd expect that both companies would make sure of that.
Faroudja 96 vs DVDO/ABT 100 means.. not much.

This is a deinterlacing "score" not a picture quality "score." I remember Kris going blue in the face trying to stress that. The "score" was only put in to appease the forum masses.
The Faroudja failed subtitle synch and was borderline on recovery. Not much picture quality there.

If it's not $200 or less, I see low volume sales.

The price is warned to go up on these units. I see it as a bad move.
LOL

I can see that your title is well deserved :)

I know that Samsung's 1080p7 is HDMI 1.3. I believe it's for the CEC, but of course, Samsung is going to dupe as many as they can with that 1.3 labeling. Unfortunate for those who don't know what HDMI 1.3 is and it's flavors.

I agree. In that regard, I think Gonk's response above is a model of clarity and specificity about why HDMI 1.3 makes no sense for this player. It's worth repeating and remembering. IMHO.

We haven't heard, but I would not expect them to. For one thing, it's being based on the 980H platform, which is v1.2. For another, the expense of changing to v1.3 wouldn't really provide any benefit. HDMI v1.3 would allow for support for TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams (which aren't available on DVD, thus not a factor here), deep color (also not available on DVD, thus not really useful), CEC (which is still an evolving standard riddled with proprietary manufacturer implementations and seems to create more problems than it solves in the instances when it does show up), and automatic lip sync adjustment (assuming that every other component in the signal path also supports it). In each case, the presence of an HDMI v1.3 transmitter chip alone doesn't create any of those features (assuming they are even possible in a DVD player), so you'd still have to include the relevent features once you had a v1.3 chip. If they were building the platform from scratch, I might see using a v1.3 chip if it happened to be convenient, but I wouldn't think it would make sense to change to one with a recently refined v1.2 platform as a basis for this product.

Dana

im not trying to be offensive, but how can someone in this day and age not know who luke skywalker is?

Yeah, even I do and I fell asleep in the theater during the original release.

Dear Lord, that was one boring movie...

Yeah, even I do and I fell asleep in the theater during the original release.

Dear Lord, that was one boring movie...



SACRILEGE !

I know that Samsung's 1080p7 is HDMI 1.3. I believe it's for the CEC, but of course, Samsung is going to dupe as many as they can with that 1.3 labeling.

You can do CEC, but unless you are making a display which supports this functionality (which OPPO does not) this feature is useless. Most manufacturers are still keeping their CEC commands to themselves (ie. a Pioneer BDP will only work with a Pioneer plasma).

You can do auto audio-synchronization as well, but I do not think that is a major feature anymore for DVD players.

Luke Skywalker was a character in the famous trilogy of films by the name of Star Wars.

It might have also helped that I didn't separate Skywalker into two words. Damned late night postings.

I shoulda known that my ???????????????????????? was too unclear a response, but I assumed that everybody would assume that I knew who Luke Skywalker was. I was ????????????????????????ing over Neuromancer's implication of new Oppo products currently in development.

No HD products are in development.

Yes. Definately will be released in 07 or 08. Heh! SMARTY-PANTS!!! Very funny!

Gary

No HD products are in development.

Yeah right! :p There's got to be at least one oppo engineer's bar-napkin laying around somewhere :)

No HD products are in development.

I don't believe this to be true. :) Long story short is that when I picked up my 980H in Mt View, I got to talking to one of the dudes there. We talked about pre/pros, HD DVD, BD, etc. I got the distinct impression that *something* was coming in 2008. They are definitely already looking at doing a high rez player.

I posted a little bit more in the Denon combo player thread in the dual format player section. Post #27:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=906842

I would say that it's a safe bet that OPPO is exploring their options for getting into the HD format war in some capacity. So far, though, Blu-ray player development has been a slow and bumpy process for everyone (Sony, Panasonic, and Pioneer included). It may be too soon to commit to anything...

LOL

I can see that your title is well deserved :)

I put it up after a frazzled forum member responded w/ that accusation rather than address my arguement or points.

If I was really a troll, I'd tout again and again that the Oppo player is a piece of junk w/o Denon Link ..:p.

wow this is excellet because we're getting:
1. better than faroudja upscale
2. dsd output over hdmi

WHEN WILL THIS BE HERE???!?! one of my co-workers is looking to replace his dvd player cost no object but it has to be high quality. 983 is the PERFECT solution for him.

"Long story short is that when I picked up my 980H in Mt View, I got to talking to one of the dudes there. "


did he happen to mention a price and release date for the 983 ?

Only the same information we have seen here is talked about there: 300~350 and Late Winter (hopeful) release.

- thanks

want this... NOW! >)

"Long story short is that when I picked up my 980H in Mt View, I got to talking to one of the dudes there. "


did he happen to mention a price and release date for the 983 ?

I picked it up before the 983H was announced here. :)

bummer
well, heres hoping for December / $250

I e-mailed Oppo and they said the 983 was due "late winter". I take that to mean Feburary-March.

Late winter will make it a tough sell for $300-$350. I know Oppo has priced its units well in the past or they wouldn't be around. But this holiday the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray decks will be slugging it out; some of them have excellent std DVD upconversion. Oppo may have a hard time at that price.

Late winter will make it a tough sell for $300-$350. I know Oppo has priced its units well in the past or they wouldn't be around. But this holiday the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray decks will be slugging it out; some of them have excellent std DVD upconversion. Oppo may have a hard time at that price.

I tend to agree. But, Neuro told us earlier in this thread that he calls this product their "Swan Song." It's OPPO's last shot at producing a superior SD DVD player for aficionados willing to pay a premium. I suppose it's like that old saying about buying a yacht. If you have to ask how much it costs, you don't want one. That probably includes me.

Dana

the hd dvd/blu-ray players still won't have BOTH SACD+DVD-A support. furthermore, hd dvd/blu-ray players will not be passing dsd streams over hdmi as well.

some people prefer these as audio players with the video portions as bonus enhancements to their DVD video collections. that's how i tent to view it.

Many consumer and AVS members do not have a dedicated HT/listen room, where rack space is not an issue nor room aesthetics come into play. Everything we do has a trade off – more gear >more$$$> more things need to be calibrated and interconnected w/ 22 cables, etc, etc. This is a very frustrating hobby as well as some great rewards – our loves ones Really like our movie HT setup- they can have their own brand of pop corn-candy-soda & even answer their cp (sorry). In addition, can have a nice sound stage for music. If we do not have space for 10 different components then we compromise. My living room rack has space limitation, WAF- I get one new toy for each one I remove…. I want one HD movie player and a CD/SACD/A players, so until then. I’ll have compromise with good Oppo SD video & very good Music play back. I hope the 983H does this….

JediFonger, funny, I was just thinking about the lack of SACD on SONY's Blu-Ray players. What an amazing betrayal of their loyal customer base. Even if they don't produce so many SACD's anymore, the least they could do for those who bought into the format is include it in their once again...breakthrough product. Anyone here see why some might be skeptical of the new SONY format?

Late winter will make it a tough sell for $300-$350. I know Oppo has priced its units well in the past or they wouldn't be around. But this holiday the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray decks will be slugging it out; some of them have excellent std DVD upconversion. Oppo may have a hard time at that price.

Here is the problem: HD DVD and Blu-Ray are slugging it out in a format war no one is really taking a part of. If you look at the latest press media from the HD DVD group, they are quoting units sold this year for stand alone players at about 150,000 units. Most manufacturers of DVD products sell that much in a month.

For a company like OPPO, their sales are geared directly to customers who are tech savy. This becomes a predicament as HD DVD and Blu-Ray are still predominantly dominated by tech savy purchasers. However, OPPO has the advantage of being a cheap "top tier" producer of electronics. That is, the type of people who are purchasing these HD DVD and Blu-Ray players are the same people who purchase dedicated separates. That is, they will have a quality HD DVD/Blu-Ray player and a DVD player.

OPPO is not competing for HD DVD and Blu-Ray sales, but are competing with Pioneer, Denon, Marantz and other manufacturers who are also bowing new, high quality DVD players in the coming months. There is still life in DVD, and OPPO is trying to capitalize on it before jumping the HD shark.

Unless something dramatic happens I don't think the high def formats are going anywhere soon. Until there is a unified , glitch free disc player I doubt they find mass acceptance. Player problems, two formats, noisy fans, little stocking of shelves by rentals stores just don't add up. I could be wrong and there might be a flood of purchases this holiday season but if not I'm buying the 983 and watch from the sidelines.

SACRILEGE !

Sorry...

I know I'm the odd man out when it comes to the Star Wars movies. Everyone else in the theater was having a great time until they had some sort of projection problem and a mini riot broke out.:)

Will the 983 have component out as well as HDMI?

Unless something dramatic happens I don't think the high def formats are going anywhere soon. Until there is a unified , glitch free disc player I doubt they find mass acceptance. Player problems, two formats, noisy fans, little stocking of shelves by rentals stores just don't add up. I could be wrong and there might be a flood of purchases this holiday season but if not I'm buying the 983 and watch from the sidelines.

Get a properly set up HD player w/ lossless surround and you will change your tune.
Some of us are after the best.

Get a properly set up HD player w/ lossless surround and you will change your tune.
Some of us are after the best.
i think most of us here know that in general the hdm players put out a decent picture. its the glitches that keep me and many others out of the hdm game. the best picture means nothing if the machine keeps breaking down or not working at all. i'll wait til they're a little more reliable.

i think most of us here know that in general the hdm players put out a decent picture. its the glitches that keep me and many others out of the hdm game. the best picture means nothing if the machine keeps breaking down or not working at all. i'll wait til they're a little more reliable.

I think you drastically overestimate the usuability issues with these players. I have 3 second gen Toshiba players, and a PS3. The PS3 is a little weird but all of them work without any problems at all. I mean zero. They are all well used. I can't not say the same for the two Oppos I have owned. I had a 970 sent it back because it skipped like crazy playing ordinary CDs.. and the 981 that thing was unusuable on any of my HDTVs, macroblocked, hdmi synch issues, green screen.

It is amazing to me how much hyperbole there is when it comes to problems with next gen players compared to products like the Oppos.

One experience does not a concensus make.

I think you drastically overestimate the usuability issues with these players. I have 3 second gen Toshiba players, and a PS3. The PS3 is a little weird but all of them work without any problems at all. I mean zero. They are all well used. I can't not say the same for the two Oppos I have owned. I had a 970 sent it back because it skipped like crazy playing ordinary CDs.. and the 981 that thing was unusuable on any of my HDTVs, macroblocked, hdmi synch issues, green screen.

It is amazing to me how much hyperbole there is when it comes to problems with next gen players compared to products like the Oppos.
as they say, point taken. thanx!

I think that gtgray has a point about how Toshiba has handled HD-DVD hardware - they've done a very good job with their players from very early on. HD-DVD is only half of the format war, though, and Blu-ray complicates things a bit. I came across an interesting blog post at Ultimate AV (http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/shanebuettner/101307fox/) a little bit ago that speaks to the current state of affairs with standalone Blu-ray players (IE: not the PS3). It's not particularly cheery.

Sure, a $300 to $350 DVD player released in early 2008 is not likely to sell in huge quantities, but that doesn't invalidate the decision to produce such a player. There will still be a market for it, with the 981HD and 980H alongside it to appeal to others who aren't willing to spend that much but still want a DVD player to wait out the continuing uncertainty of the format war. And there may be some secondary value in letting OPPO's engineers get a little familiarity with a new video processing solution like ABT/DVDO - after all, they will have to get into one or both HD formats at some point. Getting their feet wet now with a chip family that could potentially follow them on to an HD platform for use with both HD and SD source material - or at least teach them some new lessons, even if they end up using a different chip (or chips) - could be handy later.

My Panasonic BD10 Blu-ray player has been outstanding. And Panasonic Global has been diligent in releasing frequent firmware upgrades that provide added value. They are issued more frequently than OPPO does. ;)

I think Neuro hit the nail on the head with his recent post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11887745#post11887745. It's not either a High Dev player or an OPPO; it's both for tech savvy buyers.

... the type of people who are purchasing these HD DVD and Blu-Ray players are the same people who purchase dedicated separates. That is, they will have a quality HD DVD/Blu-Ray player and a DVD player. (Emphasis supplied.)

OPPO is not competing for HD DVD and Blu-Ray sales, but are competing with Pioneer, Denon, Marantz and other manufacturers who are also bowing new, high quality DVD players in the coming months. There is still life in DVD, and OPPO is trying to capitalize on it before jumping the HD shark.

I have both because the OPPO 981 does things - such as play Region 2 PAL discs - that my BD10 doesn't. Vivre le difference! :cool:

Dana

No HD products are in development.

It will be "in development" once this chip is available - http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/semiconductors/abt2010.php

My forecast - Oppo will release a "true" universal HD player around mid-2008 - price $550.

It will be "in development" once this chip is available - http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/semiconductors/abt2010.php

My forecast - Oppo will release a "true" universal HD player around mid-2008 - price $550.

Wow, you've even got the price pinned down .;)
I too believe that they will do a dual format HD player. Hopefully sooner than later.

I hope it will still play SACDs/DVD-As. If it does, I'll buy it for sure!

well, neither HD DVD/Blu-Ray players on the market currently plays BOTH sacd and dvd-a. that's where this oppo player comes in =).

It will be "in development" once this chip is available - http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/semiconductors/abt2010.php

My forecast - Oppo will release a "true" universal HD player around mid-2008 - price $550.

The ABT2010 is likely already available, I suspect it's the main IC for ABT/DVDO's own VP50pro video processor.

Given the current state of the HD market, I think it's a no-brainer for OPPO to employ this chip (or another like it) to build a universal HD player. The only question is whether or not the enthusiast market is enough to justify the R&D cost. I don't think the typical Circuit City/Best Buy customer is doing extensive research online prior to diving into these new formats. Their information comes from sales flyers and TV commercials. It'll take a universal player from the likes of Pioneer or Yamaha to get on their radar screens.

I have the 981 connected to my pj via HDMI. I'd like to have that connection AND another output (component or HDMI) to feed a smaller LCD TV. Anyone know if the 983 will have two outs instead of the one like the 981?

I have the 981 connected to my pj via HDMI. I'd like to have that connection AND another output (component or HDMI) to feed a smaller LCD TV. Anyone know if the 983 will have two outs instead of the one like the 981?

That info/spec is not available yet.

If I only want bitstream out of SA-CD and DVD-Audio, why would I want to upgrade to this particular Oppo and not just go with the 980H?

For this level of increase I would want a much more robust and silent chassis, transport mechanism, circuit boards, and tray system. Quality, not just features.

Any speculatoin on how the ABT chipset performs in regards to A/V sync? I'm still holding on to using an old Zenith 318 (DCDi) but just got a new LCD XBR4 flat panel and am getting itchy for an SD upscaler with HDMI output (1080p, 24hz would be nice).

Biggest issue I have with a player is A/V sync. I just tried a Toshiba A30 (and returned just wanted to test another player on new TV) and it didn't have as any A/V sync issues on some disks and slight but less than the 318 on others.

So I screwed myself over.... got a taste of 1080p 24hz upscaling and now I have to wait till the 983 is out.

BTW - Any chance of a getting on a pre-order list? Early notification? E-mail list? Anything? Sorry, like I said just got a small taste and know Oppos will be amazing and better. Just have to be patient, and can't let myself settle for a 980 or 981.

PS - Sometimes my 318 holds A/V sync decent and sometimes it gets out of sync... A Stop and Play (resume from location) normally fixes things. But sometimes a disk just has a A/V out of sync completely and that's really annoying... I tired that one of those on both the 318 and the Tosh A30 and the A30 was much closer to in sync.

If I only want bitstream out of SA-CD and DVD-Audio, why would I want to upgrade to this particular Oppo and not just go with the 980H?

For this level of increase I would want a much more robust and silent chassis, transport mechanism, circuit boards, and tray system. Quality, not just features.

If you are just looking for SACD and DVD-Audio, there would probably be no reason to wait for the 983H - the changes that will exist are apparently focused entirely on the video section. The quality improvements are happening there.

wouldn't an AV Receiver or hdmi switch resolve that issue?

I have the 981 connected to my pj via HDMI. I'd like to have that connection AND another output (component or HDMI) to feed a smaller LCD TV. Anyone know if the 983 will have two outs instead of the one like the 981?

wouldn't an AV Receiver or hdmi switch resolve that issue?

He'd need an HDMI splitter.

If you are just looking for SACD and DVD-Audio, there would probably be no reason to wait for the 983H - the changes that will exist are apparently focused entirely on the video section. The quality improvements are happening there.
thats what i like to hear!

Any updates on the timing of the 983? Nothing on the Oppo website yet....

Thanks!

Thanks Jedi, Dono, I have the Arcam AVR300 and will wait for Arcam to put out a receiver with HDMI 1.3. I like the sound so much I'm willing to wait for them to catch up to the big boys like Denon, Pioneer, etc. A switcher makes sense but I'm not fond of them or splitters either. Hopefully the 983 will allow HDMI out and component.

Any updates on the timing of the 983? Nothing on the Oppo website yet....

Thanks!
Best guess seems to be some time around or after the first of the year. If history is any indication, it won't appear on OPPO's site until they are ready to take orders for it.

martin, the switch is cheap enough and since everything's digital you're losing nothing. just more/les convenience on your part.

2 questions:
1) Any speculation on how the ABT chipset and the rest of the 983 might perform in regards to audio video sync?

2) Any chance the 983 would have 5.1 outputs for decoded SACD or DVD-A? Or will it be HDMI only to get those formats? (I have an older no-HDMI Elite receiver I do not intend on upgrading) [This doesn't matter too much to me as I really want the DVD upscaler, it's a bonus if I can get the multi-channel CD audio.]

I don't know about how much AV sync delay the ABT might incur, but since the 983H is being based on the 980H platform I would expect the 980H's 7.1 analog output to be retained.

Why will this player be a better choice then the HDAX2 or the BD1200?

Also, Denon will be releasing a true universal player around the Oppo release time.

im hoping that 983 will be at least as good as xa2 (i know nothing about bd1200) for upscaling but less quirky/problematic, etc.

Also, Denon will be releasing a true universal player around the Oppo release time.

The Denon will not offer SACD/DVD-A.

Why will this player be a better choice then the HDAX2 or the BD1200?

Also, Denon will be releasing a true universal player around the Oppo release time.

Here is only one of many reasons which include agonizingly slow load times, no component out (yes, I still use component), No DVD-A or SACD not to mention the absurd format war.

http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/ReallyNeed.html

I see little advantage in the HD format unless I buy a much larger TV or decide I want to sit closer than 15' away from my 61" RPTV. The sales numbers indicate that the vast majority of buyers today either don't care, won't buy until the format wars are over or are like me and sit far enough away, High def has little if any visible impact on the viewing experience. Putting in a high end audio system will provide much greater viewing satisfaction, IMHO. But, I'm more of an audiophile than a videophile so I'm biased. :D

Jim

Also, Denon will be releasing a true universal player around the Oppo release time.

The Denon will not offer SACD/DVD-A.

Are these statements based on confirmed info? The thread in the dual format HD player area seems like more speculation than anything else. If they are confirmed, all the better!

Any updates on the timing of the 983? Nothing on the Oppo website yet....

OPPO does not update their website or make announcements until the product is actually available for shipping.

Any chance the 983 would have 5.1 outputs for decoded SACD or DVD-A? Or will it be HDMI only to get those formats? (I have an older no-HDMI Elite receiver I do not intend on upgrading) [This doesn't matter too much to me as I really want the DVD upscaler, it's a bonus if I can get the multi-channel CD audio.]

They are using the DV-980H as the basic shell. There is a full compliment of analog audio and video outputs. No analog connections will be removed from the player.

The Denon will not offer SACD/DVD-A.

According to Sam, it's no to SACD and DVDA.
According to my local dealer, it's yes.
Based on his track record, I'd say it's a coinflip.

I'd rather get a 970 or 980 for SACD and DVDA. Then the saved money can go towards a better more complete modern player. If the Denon does everything, it will be expensive, but complete.

Are these statements based on confirmed info? The thread in the dual format HD player area seems like more speculation than anything else. If they are confirmed, all the better!

According to Sam, it's no to SACD and DVDA.
According to my local dealer, it's yes.
Based on his track record, I'd say it's a coinflip.

I'd rather get a 970 or 980 for SACD and DVDA. Then the saved money can go towards a better more complete modern player. If the Denon does everything, it will be expensive, but complete.

Hey you don't have to take my word for it, there's pictures of the actual unit out there:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/09/08/hands-on-with-denons-pricey-dvd-3800bdci-blu-ray-player/

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/10/17/denon-intros-two-new-high-end-blu-ray-players/

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/07/25/denons-first-blu-ray-player-stuns-with-features-and-2k-priceta/

No SACD/DVD-A. I would consider the Oppo a far more "universal" player than the upcoming Denons. The Denons are just basically great DVD-only players with bluray playback included.

Don't go asking your dealer for any lotto numbers ;)

Is the oppo a fast player ? By fast I mean, fast button response, fast menu navigating, chapter searching/skipping, etc. Also power on/off, disk tray open/close.

Does it do auto pillar-boxing of 4:3 material ?

Is the component output getting any improvement ? i.e. does it use the ABT deinterlacer too ?

Thanks

Would anyone care to speculate whether this player is likely to do as good a job of 50i->60p conversion as the Oppo 981? I own a substantial collection of video-sourced PAL material on DVD, and would like to watch it on my progressive NTSC display without losing the fluid video look of the original footage. (My Denon 3910 seems to discard every other field when converting from PAL to NTSC, so everything ends up looking "filmized"--yuck!) Basically, I'm trying to decide whether I should just get the 981 now, or hold out for the 983.

Thanks very much!

It will do as good of a job, if not a better job, doing PAL to NTSC and NTSC to PAL due to a more advanced processing chipset.

Is the oppo a fast player ? By fast I mean, fast button response, fast menu navigating, chapter searching/skipping, etc. Also power on/off, disk tray open/close.

It is fast responding to playback commands, but tray functions are still slow in order to facilitate the proper spinning up and spinning down of disc media.

Does it do auto pillar-boxing of 4:3 material ?

Yes.

Is the component output getting any improvement ? i.e. does it use the ABT deinterlacer too ?

At this time, no. The component interface is connected to the MTK solution on my hardware design.

Don't go asking your dealer for any lotto numbers ;)

You're right, that is not a universal player.

I wonder if Oppo is just BSing the price increase, so we all laud them for coming in at $289.

Is the oppo a fast player ? By fast I mean, fast button response, fast menu navigating, chapter searching/skipping, etc. Also power on/off, disk tray open/close.

I have a 980H, and it's reasonably fast with this kind of stuff. But the Pioneer 59AVi I had previously was noticeably faster. Especially tray in and out, and disc loading to playing.

Anyone else notice that Kris Deering has a copy of the 983? :)

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_4/sonos-digital-music-server-10-2007-part-3.html
(third paragraph)

Anyone else notice that Kris Deering has a copy of the 983? :)

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_4/sonos-digital-music-server-10-2007-part-3.html
(third paragraph)

Ya he's had it since inception. Being a guru of who's who in the high end audio video world, he gets picked first for a lot of stuff. Of course the ole NDA keeps his lips sealed pretty tight. As far as getting "info" on the 983, here is where you want to be. I don't think your going to find any more information out there than what Neuromancer is going to provide. :)

Kudos to Neuromancer! Thank you for all your help and guidance.

Can you pass along the want for 24hz (23.976Hz) output of DVD's?

If they add 24hz playback for DVD like Toshiba added recently with the XA2 I will pick up the Oppo as well.

When I move up to an HD pj, I'd cerrtainly prefer it had the 24hz. playback feature. I think it would be a significant selling point if OPPO is able to include it in the 983.

with all the information about this dvd player, will the DV-983H upconvert better than existing HD DVD players and Blu-Ray players out there?

martin, most FP's will accept 24fps, but will play it back @variants of 24, that is 48, 72, 120, etc. FYI, i doubt any will playback TRUE 24 frames per second. it'd be too blurry.

Thanks for the clarification Jedi, that's what I was refering to, hopefully avoiding odd number frame 3:2 pulldown artifacts.

If they add 24hz playback for DVD like Toshiba added recently with the XA2 I will pick up the Oppo as well.

I'm still confused on how 24fps playback helps with SD. I know with the BD and HD-DVD machines the 24fps playback helps because most (all?) discs are encoded at 1080p24 and can therefore send an unprocessed signal to a monitor that can accept it and hopefully display it at some multiple of 24. However, I was under the impression that SD DVDs are encoded at 480i60 (I'm assuming Region 1 NTSC) and therefore required 3:2 pulldown on film based material (which had hopefully been flagged correctly) either in the player or in the display. Is this not correct? If it is correct, how does having 24 fps output on the Oppo make things better? Thanks in advance for making me less stupid!

Right. Since SD DVD is encoded at 60 Hz, 24 fps for SD DVD playback gets you nothing. ?? BD and HD DVD *are* different.

Thanks Kevin/BSTNFAN, I must have been confusing standard DVD with the HD DVD formats without 3/2. Hopefully one of our resident experts (Kras?) will drop some science on us.

As I understand it, SD DVD is encoded at 30fps for video material and 24fps for film. In the latter case it is the DVD player that adds the 3:2 pull down to output at 30fps, i.e. 60Hz interlaced. That's for NTSC: In the PAL world both video and film are encoded at 25fps.

Hi to all on this thread.

I already own the vp50(DVDO)and would like to get the Oppo so can anyone tell me if it would be worth the wait for the 983 over the 980.

Its been stated on this thread that only the video side of the 983 is undergoing some changes,is this correct.

Or should I just wait for the release of the983?

All responses welcome.

You just need 480i out via HDMI. The 970 or 980 should do you just fine.

larry

As I understand it, SD DVD is encoded at 30fps for video material and 24fps for film. In the latter case it is the DVD player that adds the 3:2 pull down to output at 30fps, i.e. 60Hz interlaced. That's for NTSC: In the PAL world both video and film are encoded at 25fps.

This is correct. 24fps does help for DVDs as well.

So, for film on standard DVD, 24fps multiplied is better than 3/2 pulldown assuming your TV/pj accepts it without extra modification?

3:2 pulldown has to be applied somewhere to get 24fps from DVD, and the 983 has the potential to do it better than most displays.

3:2 pulldown has to be applied somewhere to get 24fps from DVD, and the 983 has the potential to do it better than most displays.

OK, I am getting confused just when I thought I understood this. :) If you could get 24 fps from a DVD to the DVD player's output, then you wouldn't need 3:2 pulldown for film. But you'd still need it for video. But obviously, most movies are shot on film. ?? That's the potential benefit of 24 fps. No 3:2 pulldown necessary at all for film. As long as your display processes in a mutliple of 24 Hz, like some of the Pioneers at 72 Hz.

Otherwise, 3:2 pulldown would still be necessary somewhere. For example, for Panasonic plasmas and most other displays too, it expects a 60 Hz input, so in that case 24 fps from the player isn't going to do anything. The display would then do the pulldown, and in that case, the Oppo's processing would be better most of the time too. A lot of displays won't even accept a 24 Hz input.

Sony Samsung 120 HZ.

How many companies will pick this up next year?

Anyone else notice that Kris Deering has a copy of the 983? :)

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_4/sonos-digital-music-server-10-2007-part-3.html
(third paragraph)

So you noticed! ;)

I helped with this design a bit and I'm overjoyed with what Oppo has done with it. You guys will NOT be disappointed. Although I feel DVD is a dying format for the video enthuasist, this is one of the best stop gap solutions out there. I really don't know where Oppo could improve on it.

They could make it play HD DVD/Blu-Ray ...

So you noticed! ;)

I helped with this design a bit and I'm overjoyed with what Oppo has done with it. You guys will NOT be disappointed. Although I feel DVD is a dying format for the video enthuasist, this is one of the best stop gap solutions out there. I really don't know where Oppo could improve on it.

Sweet. I'm in for two ;)

Kris,

Can you verify that the 983H will support other resolutions than just the standard 480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p? 1366x768 would be fantastic.

Also, can it do anything with 4:3 images other than pillarbox? Zooming 4:3 a la Panasonic RP-91K would be a godsend.

None at this time.

And yes, OPPO is working on some new Zoom modes, such as constant aspect ratio.

None at this time.

And yes, OPPO is working on some new Zoom modes, such as constant aspect ratio.

Thanks Neuromancer. Too bad about the resolutions :(

Can you describe in more detail what is meant by "constant aspect ratio"? I am assuming that is different that what folks are doing with projectors + 2.40:1 screens and constant image height?

I just set up my Sony 60A3000. Which Oppo do you recommend for watching standard DVD's? I'll stay away from HD till the format war shakes out.

I just set up my Sony 60A3000. Which Oppo do you recommend for watching standard DVD's? I'll stay away from HD till the format war shakes out.
I just bought the same TV and I got the 980. That is the one Oppo recommends. So far it has worked great. The picture is incredible.

I was just wondering if the 983 was worth waiting for. With the new chip set used by the 983 the PQ advantage may be worth the wait. I'm new to the 60A3000 so I'm not sure about the PQ advantage of the 983 with the LCOS.

I was just wondering if the 983 was worth waiting for. With the new chip set used by the 983 the PQ advantage may be worth the wait. I'm new to the 60A3000 so I'm not sure about the PQ advantage of the 983 with the LCOS.

It's not worth it over a HD player with a Reon/Realta picture-wise.

will the 983 have different D/A converters than the 981 for my audio listening? I use the analog and do SACD also.

really dumb question---is there a way to watch my region-coded German DVDs on th US version? or a procedure to unlock Oppo DVD players? it is quite aggravating that these DVDs are even region-coded, because they will obviously not take away from sales elsewhere. not enough German speakers to make this worthwhile.

any update on the approx date of arrival? still early December?

regards,

/iaw

It's not worth it over a HD player with a Reon/Realta picture-wise.

It will do just as well as a Realta based player, but better than a Reon based player.

It's not worth it over a HD player with a Reon/Realta picture-wise.

I tend to agree based on the following: The HQV (Reon/Realta) chips incorporate mpeg noise reduction; a feature that became available in VP50 pro. The Oppo 983 uses the processing found on the VP30. For an example look at the comparison pics at ABT's webpage of what noise reduction does in the VP50 pro.

Personally I do not find Nosie Reduction to be a useful feature due to the loss of detail associated to it.

That and those comparison images are nothing like you would see in a real world example.

Personally I do not find Nosie Reduction to be a useful feature due to the loss of detail associated to it.

Noise reduction doesn't have to lose detail. Honestly though, I can't say I've been able to sit down in front of an HQV setup and play with NR so I don't know exactly how good their noise reduction is. I do know that as a digital video encoder, I can do a decent amount of NR without dropping any noticible detail with many (but not all) sources.


It will do just as well as a Realta based player, but better than a Reon based player.

On what basis would the Reon be worse? The Reon should have plenty of power to handle SD just fine.

really dumb question---is there a way to watch my region-coded German DVDs on th US version? or a procedure to unlock Oppo DVD players? it is quite aggravating that these DVDs are even region-coded, because they will obviously not take away from sales elsewhere. not enough German speakers to make this worthwhile.

any update on the approx date of arrival? still early December?

regards,

/iaw
The other OPPO players have all included a hidden menu that allows you to change the player's region code (including an option for "region 0" that supports playback of discs from any region). I would suspect that the 983H, being based on the 980H that includes this menu, will be the same way.

Noise reduction doesn't have to lose detail. Honestly though, I can't say I've been able to sit down in front of an HQV setup and play with NR so I don't know exactly how good their noise reduction is.

Noise Reduction will always come at a loss of resolution (detail). The reason for this is that the system has to dynamically choose which pixels are "good" and which pixels are "bad". Although the accuracy of modern computing has greatly improved the accuracy, you will still get errors were "good" noise is removed.

For my NR tests I use clips which are populated with high detail (ex. rust, intricate fabric, brick walls). Any NR setting that is actually perceivable as "clean" will remove a lot of these fine details.

I do know that as a digital video encoder, I can do a decent amount of NR without dropping any noticible detail with many (but not all) sources.

I have never seen a NR encode which has appealed to me. There is usually some artificial limit which is crossed when noise is removed to an acceptable level. This becomes very noticeable in animations. I prefer a noisy picture to an artificial picture.

I should point out that I opened my preface with "Personally I ....". I am not making a factual statement.

You guys are really getting me confused. Which Oppo will produce the best PQ with the new micro-displays? Is DLP or LCOS prone to macro blocking or is that only a problem with plasmas? How do you compare the new Toshiba HD-DVD players at Wal-Mart for under 2 bills?

For DLP/LCoS you are looking at the DV-980H or the upcoming DV-983H.

The Toshiba HD DVD player in Wallmart is the current Toshiba HD-A2. It is a quality product for its price.

Thanks Neuromancer. I know the price difference between the 980 and the 983 will be about double but how much better do you anticipate the PQ to be? 10%, 20%, or even more? Same question about sound quality on a good 5.1 system.

Depends on the media you will be playing back. If you are primarily playing back filmed media in the NTSC format, likely there will be a marginal increase in picture quality. If, however, you will be viewing video sources (ex. television shows), cartoons and animations, or are playing back PAL media, then the difference is much greater, as the ABT does a much better de-interlacing and scaling than the HD-A2 for these types of media.

Have any of you beta testers checked the layer change speed on the 983? Is it comparable to the other Oppo's?

They are using the same buffering techniques as the previous players. Layer changes should not be noticeable.

They are using the same buffering techniques as the previous players. Layer changes should not be noticeable.

Nice. This will give it an edge (for me) over the HD/BR players using the Reon solution, as those current players have a noticeable SD layer change.

It will do just as well as a Realta based player, but better than a Reon based player.

$$$wise wouldn't you rather have a reon based or realta based HD or Blu Ray player? Yes.

Kris, you said yourself that w/ the new formats, you barely watch dvd anymore.

This Oppo is a weird move. Is it to separate the Oppo name from entry level players? Part of general price hike across industry. Many small companies are trying to transition to higher end, b/c the pricewar at lower prices is destroying company after company.

It is a way of winning awards and recognition. OPPO right now is about brand building. What better way to build yourself as a quality brand than to release the quintessential product?

Neuromancer, are you in posession of the "final version" yet?:)

no.

I'm interested in the 983 too, but I would like it to have good NR. It all depends on your preferred viewing. Some material benefits greatly from quality NR, even at the expense of any minor detail loss. The likes of Reon NR can be a revelation with some material, almost akin to having a remastered DVD. I would have preferred Oppo to have used the Reon, or Gennum, or even, maybe, the Qdeo (although I haven't seen the latter) if only for their NR.

Does the 983 have a tray that opens fully?

$$$wise wouldn't you rather have a reon based or realta based HD or Blu Ray player? Yes.

Kris, you said yourself that w/ the new formats, you barely watch dvd anymore.

This Oppo is a weird move. Is it to separate the Oppo name from entry level players? Part of general price hike across industry. Many small companies are trying to transition to higher end, b/c the pricewar at lower prices is destroying company after company.

I concur. Oppo's prices are way to close to HD players which will be close in performance.

How close and in what areas? 983 vs. which HD DVD player will be close? How about in SD play back performance?

How close and in what areas? 983 vs. which HD DVD player will be close? How about in SD play back performance?

The 983 with at $350 and the Samsung BR player 1200 at $450. The 1200 has Reon for upconverting std dvds.

The Toshiba HDA3 and HDA30 should be in the price range, especially w/ all the freebies/rebates.

The HDAX2 or Samsung BD1200 being discontinued would have very similar SD DVD playback. Their next gen playback makes it a no brainer.

Heck I will even mention the PS3 w/ it's gaming and streaming ability. Nothing says classy like a PS3 playing CD's, DVD's and Blu Ray w/ a joystick ;)

The HDA3 and HDA30 don't have near the performance as a SD DVD player. The XA2 and the 1200 are close, but the ABT is a far better chip with mixed material than the Reon.

$$$wise wouldn't you rather have a reon based or realta based HD or Blu Ray player? Yes.

Kris, you said yourself that w/ the new formats, you barely watch dvd anymore.

This Oppo is a weird move. Is it to separate the Oppo name from entry level players? Part of general price hike across industry. Many small companies are trying to transition to higher end, b/c the pricewar at lower prices is destroying company after company.


You are talking about apples and oranges. Yes, I barely if ever watch DVDs anymore. But that doesn't seem to be the case with the people in this thread, or they wouldn't be in the DVD Hardware area, they'd be in the HD hardware area.

Plus this is a universal player offering an HDMI output for SACD and DVD Audio on top of its outstanding DVD playback. The ABT is a more capable solution than the Reon with problem discs.

I use the 983 in my system for high resolution audio playback and if I want to watch concert DVDs, which are usually video based. Outside of that it doesn't get much use unless my wife wants to watch a TV series on DVD.

The HDA3 and HDA30 don't have near the performance as a SD DVD player. The XA2 and the 1200 are close, but the ABT is a far better chip with mixed material than the Reon.

How about on film-based DVDs? Does the A3 and A30 come close to ABT?

I'm sure it will get a "100," but I think many of us are moving to the next gen and for very valid reasons.

Apples are last generation and that orange comes w/ a free apple.

I'm sure it will get a "100," but I think many of us are moving to the next gen and for very valid reasons.

Apples are last generation and that orange comes w/ a free apple.

:rolleyes:

I had a A30 in house breifly when I got a new xbr4 tv (to see 1080p 24hz). What I can say is this. My only other player (to mention) is a Zenith 318 that's going on 4 years.

My personal logic why the 983 is my (any likely others) next player:

Premises:
1) I have no intention to buy any next-gen disks on principles and other reasons.
2) I have alot of SD DVDs and at this point want a polished fully top end SD player.
3) Polished = No layer change, Top notch deinterlacer/scaling chipsets without "compromises" (yet still not mega mega bucks). Decent responsiveness (not the cluncky feel of the next gen players).

It basically comes down to wanting a fit and finished player verse an emerging standard early generation player. Forget SD vs HD PQ. The A30 showed me how slow and early on next gen players are. I'm not talking about PQ.

PS - If you ca'nt tell I already have my credit card ready for the day Oppo puts the 983 on the market.

For playing back standard DVD's on a 1080P display will the 983 produce better PQ than the 980?

For playing back standard DVD's on a 1080P display will the 983 produce better PQ than the 980?

yes

yes

If buying a new DVD player (your only DVD player) for playback of SD DVD's and standard CD's which is the better choice, the 983 or the HD-2A if the price difference does not matter?

If buying a new DVD player (your only DVD player) for playback of SD DVD's and standard CD's which is the better choice, the 983 or the HD-2A if the price difference does not matter?

Based on second hand info available to me, and with the criteria you state, then I say the 983.

I have a Sony 70" XBR LCD Rear Projection TV (1366 x 768).
It does NOT do 1080p.
My question is: What is the best SD Player for me?
I have the Denon 2910 with DCDi, but I feel my PS3 does a better job at upconversion.
Would one of the OPPOs be better? Which model? Or perhaps the XA2?

FoSheezy, if you want palyback of HD-DVD, then get a player that has that capability. If not, then I would suggest waiting for the new Oppo 983.

For all RPTV displays I generally recommend the DV-980H. This player does not have macroblock enhancement errors, will not suffer from green push errors, and will produce very similar results to the DV-981HD at a fraction of the price.

If you have the cash, the Toshiba XA2 will be the best solution for SD and HD DVD media.

If buying a new DVD player (your only DVD player) for playback of SD DVD's and standard CD's which is the better choice, the 983 or the HD-2A if the price difference does not matter? What's the HD-2A? Did you mean the Toshiba HD-A2? If so, there is no contest. The HD-A2 only outputs 1080i with poor SD performance. See Kris Deering's comments above too. You will need the HD-XA2 to get anywhere near the performance of the 983.

Gary

Would the 981HD do a better job than my Denon 2910 even though they both use DCDi?

Likely not.

If I have an ABT scaler in my Yamaha 1800, would I be better off using a DCDi hdmi upscaling DVD player, or sending component into to receiver (it will only scale analog)? If better to send component, should I send 480i or 480p? I am planning to play around with this myself, but appreciate any feedback, sorry if this question stays too far off-topic. I guess it is a contest between an all-digital pipeline w/possible macroblocking vs. D/A-A/D pipeline required to use my receiver's scaler. I have a 42" 1080p panasonic plasma. I understand the 983H, or an HD player, would give the best of both worlds but trying to optimize what I've already got in the meantime.

For all RPTV displays I generally recommend the DV-980H. This player does not have macroblock enhancement errors, will not suffer from green push errors, and will produce very similar results to the DV-981HD at a fraction of the price.

If you have the cash, the Toshiba XA2 will be the best solution for SD and HD DVD media.

But doesn't the 981HD have better PAL->NTSC conversion? I have the 981 with my Toshiba 46H84 RPTV; no macroblocking but a slight green push (even after the firmware upgrade). I also have the HD-A1, but want region-free capabilities.

You can't do PAL on the Toshiba HD-XA2, so that argument is won by the DV-981HD by default.

I think he's saying that the 981 has better pal conversion compared the the 980 that you were recommending Neuromancer. Therefore, shouldn't he be considering the 981 if he doesn't have to worry about macroblocking... that is what I think is his point.

So does 'late winter' mean Christmas 2007 or March 20 2008? :)

So does 'late winter' mean Christmas 2007 or March 20 2008? :)

Probably not by Christmas, so says the grapevine :)

I think he's saying that the 981 has better pal conversion compared the the 980 that you were recommending Neuromancer. Therefore, shouldn't he be considering the 981 if he doesn't have to worry about macroblocking... that is what I think is his point.

Unless PAL is the primary vehicle playback, it is not worth the macroblock enhancement errors for most users. People like GSB will spend countless hours to reduce/remove these errors, but most people do not have the skill or patience.

As a personal recommendation, do not go with the DV-981HD unless you have a keen eye for calibration or PAL is your primary playback media.

So does 'late winter' mean Christmas 2007 or March 20 2008? :)

It would be a total Christmas miracle if it came out this year.

I think he's saying that the 981 has better pal conversion compared the the 980 that you were recommending Neuromancer. Therefore, shouldn't he be considering the 981 if he doesn't have to worry about macroblocking... that is what I think is his point.

That is what I was getting at..sorry for not being clearer. As I see it, the 981HD (or 980 for that matter) is appealing for two reasons: excellent upconversion, and/or PAL/region-free performance. If the user's primary reason for purchase is the latter (as was mine), and no macroblocking issues exist, then the 981HD is the better choice.

Anyway, it's been cleared up by Neuromancer.

The Toshiba HDA3 and HDA30 should be in the price range, especially w/ all the freebies/rebates.

The HDAX2 or Samsung BD1200 being discontinued would have very similar SD DVD playback. Their next gen playback makes it a no brainer.

Heck I will even mention the PS3 w/ it's gaming and streaming ability. Nothing says classy like a PS3 playing CD's, DVD's and Blu Ray w/ a joystick ;)

hmmm...with oppo 983 beyond this year, maybe I should consider alternatives, too. Like many others, I would rather pay $15 for an ordinary DVD, than $30 for a next-gen DVD, for which the studios can revoke the license any time. I don't mind if I purchase a player that can play them, but don't need it.

I thought the HDA3 would not have the upscaling quality of the HD-XA2, even though its price is good. the HD-XA2 otoh is over twice the price everywhere. I have not seen it discounted below $500 anywhere.

this leaves the PS3 as an option. the test of the old(?) firmware upscaling video in http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=133 showed poor performance. has anyone tested it after the system upgrade? is it competitive now? It seems to have the processing power to run circles around all the special-purpose solutions, but it may not have the software.

/iaw

BTW, how do the 980 and the 983 compare to the Helios H4000?

this leaves the PS3 as an option. the test of the old(?) firmware upscaling video in http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=133 showed poor performance. has anyone tested it after the system upgrade? is it competitive now? It seems to have the processing power to run circles around all the special-purpose solutions, but it may not have the software.
It does now. With the new firmware (>1.8) the PS3 is an excellent SD-DVD player. I have both the PS3 and the XA2, and both provide a superb 1080p output with DVDs. With the complete ABT chipset I would expect the DV-983H to be in the same ballpark.

BTW, how do the 980 and the 983 compare to the Helios H4000?

I personally would never touch a Helios player. Their hardware and support are dubious at best.

It would be a total Christmas miracle if it came out this year.

While I understand it would be a miracle to have the product out for sale this calendar year, is there any idea if their could be any information around that time regarding projected release?

Yes I just asked to know if we can look forward to a rough time frame to get word about a release date. I do believe the 983 is that exciting and well anticipated by many.

OPPO generally does not announce a product launch date until they actually have product. They may have a more detailed window around Christmas.

It does now. With the new firmware (>1.8) the PS3 is an excellent SD-DVD player. I have both the PS3 and the XA2, and both provide a superb 1080p output with DVDs. With the complete ABT chipset I would expect the DV-983H to be in the same ballpark.

did you also compare them to ordinary DVD players? are both a whole lot better? it would be tempting to go for the PS3 in this case. with blu-ray and a video game thrown in, the $100 price premium over the 983 seems well justified.

/iaw

did you also compare them to ordinary DVD players? are both a whole lot better?
Yes.

Both the PS3 and XA2 are noticeably better than my Oppo 981 or discarded Sony DVP-NS75H 'upscaling' DVD player on my 1080p LCD. Night and day.

As I indicated before, the Oppo 983 has the potential to meet or beat the high bar set by the XA2 and PS3.

Yes.

Both the PS3 and XA2 are noticeably better than my Oppo 981 or discarded Sony DVP-NS75H 'upscaling' DVD player on my 1080p LCD. Night and day.

As I indicated before, the Oppo 983 has the potential to meet or beat the high bar set by the XA2 and PS3.How do you measure? If it is night and day, there should be test patterns that easily show what you see. I'm not saying you're wrong, but with test patterns, everybody can see the same thing as you.

larry

How do you measure? If it is night and day, there should be test patterns that easily show what you see. I'm not saying you're wrong, but with test patterns, everybody can see the same thing as you.

larry

Out of curiosity, what test pattern(s) are used to detect macro-block enhance?

can anyone tell me if the oppo is the only player out with HDMI v1.2,DSD over HDMI

Or is there another??

How do you measure? If it is night and day, there should be test patterns that easily show what you see. I'm not saying you're wrong, but with test patterns, everybody can see the same thing as you.
You are correct.

Of course, you don't need test patterns to see macroblocking or green shift when viewing the same DVD chapter back to back. ;) And with 10,000+ posts I'd suspect your eyes are probably more experienced than mine making the differences even more obvious. And that was my point: if amateur viewers don't even require test patterns to detect the difference, the difference is there. And yes, I do have the 981, PS3 and XA2 in my stack.

The DCDi chip was great in its time, but time also marches on and the HQV and PS3 have pushed the ball further down the field. I'm very optimistic that the 983 will be excellent based upon its Anchor Bay components if properly developed.

Cheers!

if amateur viewers don't even require test patterns to detect the difference, the difference is there.

No, it means some amateur viewer came on and made a claim and didn't back it up.

can anyone tell me if the oppo is the only player out with HDMI v1.2,DSD over HDMI

Or is there another??

There are several, such as the Pioneer Elite 48AVI. There are others, but can't remember them off the top of my head.

No, it means some amateur viewer came on and made a claim and didn't back it up.
Or posted an opinion. Assumptions are a slippery slope, but thank goodness I am not the only one one to notice macroblocking (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=133#Oppo%20DigitalDV-981HD) with the Oppo 981HD.

If you do don't agree, or have specific details, you can also constructively post further info. It goes both ways.

Cheers!

Or posted an opinion since that I guess you think I am that 'amateur.'

If you do don't agree, you can also constructively post further info. It goes both ways.

No, I'd like you to back up your claim. You used the word amateur; I only followed suit.

No, I'd like you to back up your claim. You used the word amateur; I only followed suit.
Cool.

Here's the story. I'm showing my system to a close friend that recently purchased his first HD television and is looking for an upscaling SD DVD player or HD-DVD/Bu Ray. We look at DVD's upscaled to 1080p on both the PS3 and XA2 and then the Oppo 981. The first words out of his mouth, "What are those blotches?"

So? What is your claim or counterclaim? Does the 981 not have certain issues with macroblocking? Isn't the whole point of the 983 to improve upon previous Oppo products?

Why is bluechunks opinion of macroblocking on the 981 being questioned?! I don't get it; the Faroudja chip has both macroblocking and green push. This has been widely discussed on AVS for a long time. You don't need patterns or professional equipment to see it. All DVD players that use this chip suffer from it.

gentlemen: thanks for posting opinions on PS3 vs. the other well-recognized upscaling DVD players. someone owning multiple of these, and thus capable of comparing them was just great. yes, more evidence would be even greater, but learning that subjectively at least one person could notice that the PS3 was better and not worse, is definitely worth it for me. I am just assuming we are talking "same class" here, not that one is a little better than another.

So, I think I will buy a PS3 40GB in this case. For $200 over the Oppo, I get a bluray player and a video game machine. The environmentals of the new PS3 seem to be pretty good: no more external bricks, quiet, etc. This matters to me.

Of course, if I had a choice, I would really love a good generic deinterlacer+scaler, and hook it up to a DVD player externally. For some odd reason, one can use the same chips to build $400 DVD players, but not to build a $500 generic scaler. What a pity!!!

[and yes, I know scalers are a smaller market...I am just lamenting the facts]

regards,

/ivo

Why is bluechunks opinion of macroblocking on the 981 being questioned?! I don't get it; the Faroudja chip has both macroblocking and green push. This has been widely discussed on AVS for a long time. You don't need patterns or professional equipment to see it. All DVD players that use this chip suffer from it. Nobody is questioning his macroblocking claim - the problem was his original unqualified statement that stirred up the hornets...
Both the PS3 and XA2 are noticeably better than my Oppo 981 or discarded Sony DVP-NS75H 'upscaling' DVD player on my 1080p LCD. Night and day. No reference to macroblocking there.

Gary

Ah, I see. Yeah, maybe bluechunks could have worded it a little better.

I will say though, that the Faroudja chip was the cat's meow what..four years ago? MB and green push were ok then as I don't remember that chip having competition unless you were willing to spend $$$$ on a video processor.

Nowadays I don't think saying that the XA2 and PS3 being noticeably better than the 981 is a far fetched statement. I've a friend that has a PS3 and with the latest firmware it is equal to my HTPC w/ffdshow post processing. I don't have direct experience with the XA2 but there are people on the HD DVD player's forum that have compared it favorably with expensive outboard processors in its std dvd upconversion.

Some displays show macroblocking and some don't. I had the Denon 3910 and it didn''t show macroblocking on my InFocus pj and neither does my 981 HD. That's not to say it isn't there, it definitely is, just that my display isn't sensitive to it.

So, does anybody know whether the ABT1018's frame rate conversion uses nearest neighbor interpolation, or a weighted blend? (Or something more sophisticated, such as motion estimation?)

I've just picked up the DV-981HD, and while its PAL-to-NTSC facility (in Video 2 mode) easily tops that of any other standalone DVD player I've come across, I am still disappointed by its use of the nearest neighbor method of 50hz->60hz conversion. This is fine for PAL film, as it simply transforms the 2:2 pulldown into a 3:2:3:2:2 pattern, which is really no worse (to my eyes) than the 3:2 cadence we're already used to; however, for video-based material, its effect is to duplicate every fifth field, resulting in considerable motion stutter during pans and fast movement. If the DV-983H is going to suffer from the same malady, then I don't think I'll bother upgrading.

(Though I'm sure I would appreciate the ABT102's improved detection of film-to-video transitions. For me, that's the major weakness of the Faroudja solution, and it can be very annoying if you watch a lot of the old BBC stuff that I'm into!)

Here are two CNET reviews; one of the XA2 and other of the PS3 with 1.8 firmware. Both think the 981 performs better on SD DVDs. I would be keen to know your thoughts of this.

reviews.cnet.com/video-players-and-recorders/toshiba-hd-xa2-hd/4505-6463_7-32074339.html

crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9722853-1.html

Here are two CNET reviews; one of the XA2 and other of the PS3 with 1.8 firmware. Both think the 981 performs better on SD DVDs. I would be keen to know your thoughts of this.
The 981's great strength is de-interlacing, which is a major underlying 'issue' with jaggies that both reviews mentioned. Unfortunately, there are also cons with the 981's DCDi solution. The upscaling threads in this subform are probably your best source for further info without taking this 983 thread too far off course but as a caveat I will add that both the XA2 and PS3 have had multiple firmware revisions in the interim.

Noob question: Are the oppos (980, 981, 983) immune to problems like this that I seem to be having with my sony DVP-NS75H? This shot is of my xbr4 with 1080i hdmi cable output from my player running the ntsc avia II test disk.

mhatter, never saw anything like it from my OPPO 971 or my 981.

Sweet, now if only I can force myself to wait for the 983 :D

I thought that the Toshiba HD-A2 used the ABT 1018 and ABT 1020. Am I wrong about this?

Someone confirm please!

Thanks
Jason

can anyone tell me if the oppo is the only player out with HDMI v1.2,DSD over HDMI

Or is there another??

Oppo DV-980
Pioneer Elite DV-48AV
Pioneer Elite DV-58AV

That's it so far.

according to their website:
http://oppodigital.com/dv981hd/dv981hd_comp.html

only the 980 does :(. that's why 983 will be special cause it'll do what 980 does (pass dsd) AND have good upscale chipset. :)

Oppo DV-980
Oppo DV-981
Pioneer Elite DV-48AV
Pioneer Elite DV-58AV

That's it so far.

I thought that the Toshiba HD-A2 used the ABT 1018 and ABT 1020. Am I wrong about this?

The Toshiba HD-A30 is only using the upscaling solutions (ABT 1018). The HD-A2 uses a different solution.

Oppo DV-980
Oppo DV-981
Pioneer Elite DV-48AV
Pioneer Elite DV-58AV

That's it so far.

Whoa... The 58 Pioneer isn't out yet... spill the beans!

according to their website only the 980 does :(. that's why 983 will be special cause it'll do what 980 does (pass dsd) AND have good upscale chipset. :)

D'oh!!!

You're right. :cool:

The Toshiba HD-A30 is only using the upscaling solutions (ABT 1018). The HD-A2 uses a different solution.

The Toshiba HD-DVD A20 also has the ABT1018 inside.

Meant to type HD-A20. But the HD-A30 also fits the bill as well.

wow, if i can pick up a A2 for ~$100 it may take me out of the 983 market. I really want only 1 EQ. to play Music&DVD.[space].
We are very happy with the video quality the 970- provides on our NECxr5- granted higher visual resolution would be great- however, Movie content is equally important. If the 983 gives PQ just close to the HD-I'm IN. [don't have to purchase $30 HDdvd's- and i get a SACD/DVD-A player- without more cables or a switcher being thrown into the equation] just thinking this morning.
db

No DVD player is going to make DVD look HD. None. All you're going to get is good deinterlacing which can help prevent it from looking like total crap. The 983 will do that better than the A2 for sure.

I am very much looking forward to this new player, and I'm hoping it can even obviate the need for a preamp/surround processor. (I don't do cable or gaming at the moment.) A couple questions.

1. Will the 983 have Dolby Pro Logic IIx processing? The 980 has 7.1 ch analog out with Dolby Digital Surround EX decoding, which is great. But most DVDs don't have the extra rear channel encoded. PL IIx can create that and would allow me to leverage my extra speaker investment. The 980 has PL II but that goes only up to 5.1 ch. (I am planning on ITU arrangement of 3 full range front channels and a full range center back channel, with satellites for back L and R)

2. How transparent is the built in volume control? I'm assuming it's digital and not a motorized pot--is it properly dithered? Has anyone measured distortion caused by volume control? I cannot find specs on this (specs are light in general).

3. Anyone else have experience connection an Oppo, say, the 980, directly to their amps/powered speakers? I assume this will work fine with the 983.

Thank you,
Armando

2. How transparent is the built in volume control? I'm assuming it's digital and not a motorized pot--is it properly dithered? Has anyone measured distortion caused by volume control? I cannot find specs on this (specs are light in general).

3. Anyone else have experience connection an Oppo, say, the 980, directly to their amps/powered speakers? I assume this will work fine with the 983. The OPPO players do not have a hardware volume control, they have a fairly course digital (firmware) volume control that affects the analog outputs and the digital PCM output only - not the RAW SPDIF output. I have not tried wiring the player directly to an amp without a preamp.

Gary

The OPPO players do not have a hardware volume control, they have a fairly course digital (firmware) volume control that affects the analog outputs and the digital PCM output only - not the RAW SPDIF output. I have not tried wiring the player directly to an amp without a preamp.

Gary
this is a hair off topic, but does anyone know if tosh a2 has a digital (firmware) volume control for stereo 2 ch analog outputs? its analog volume seems a lilttle weak to me compared to my other dvd players.

ive searched forums/'net for info but cant find anything specific.

this is a hair off topic, but does anyone know if tosh a2 has a digital (firmware) volume control for stereo 2 ch analog outputs? its analog volume seems a lilttle weak to me compared to my other dvd players.

ive searched forums/'net for info but cant find anything specific.Ask tomorrow in the HD-DVD forum when it reopens about 11am-12noon EST. I don't think it does. Better yet, just look at the manual. I would think a PDF is readily available.

larry

Ask tomorrow in the HD-DVD forum when it reopens about 11am-12noon EST. I don't think it does. Better yet, just look at the manual. I would think a PDF is readily available.

larry
thanks for response. i checked manual several times, but no info on that specific issue, at least i havent found it yet.

OK, I've been searching this thread and i can't find the answer. Will this new player support 1080p/24 or better yet 720p/48? I have an infocus projector that will display 720p/24 and I would rather buy a DVD player than a scaler. Also, when is the release date?

thanx

No release date and no information on any 24Hz support at this time.

Are there any 1080p upconverting dvd players that support 24 fps currently in existence?

No standard definition only players that I know of.

doesn't the toshibs do SD-upconvert to 1080p24? i dont have one i duno.

Yes, but that is a HD DVD player. The operative word was "SD only".

I thought DVDs were 30 fps in the US

Yes, but you can do a reverse telecine to produce the original 24 frames.

From an educated guess do you think we are talking late 07(though it already is) or early 08 ?

Based on Neuromancer's earlier comments, I've been assuming that the 983H will be released in 2008.

I'd have to unfortunatlely agree that it's sounding like a '08 release. The question really is: How far into 2008?

I'm truly hoping for Jan-Feb '08 range!

I'll tell you why! With the Hollywood writers strike we'll have all the first run primetime shows dry up and it's those shows filling up the DVR each week that keeps me from using the DVD player too much.

No more new TV shows = need for DVD player usage and well frankly I'd love to have the 983 to watch DVDs (movies and TV series on DVD) rather than my old Zenith318.

So about the Jan / Feb time frame (Mid-Jan would be safer) would be perfect.... Now can Neuromancer pass this along and get Oppo to start selling in this sweet zone of DVD player need? One can only hope.

Well they said "late winter" so I'm thinking Feb-Mar.

Now can Neuromancer pass this along and get Oppo to start selling in this sweet zone of DVD player need?

It is not a matter of communicating with OPPO, it is a matter of getting the hardware and software up to speed. OPPO really wants to get this player out the door, but it will not be released "until it is done". Unfortunately, that means that it potentially bleeds into a time where profitability and demand for it wains considerably from their original release schedule.

It is not a matter of communicating with OPPO, it is a matter of getting the hardware and software up to speed. OPPO really wants to get this player out the door, but it will not be released "until it is done". Unfortunately, that means that it potentially bleeds into a time where profitability and demand for it wains considerably from their original release schedule.

That sure makes alot of sense.... I now see what needs to be done.

We'll patition the writers guild and broadcasters to put out just enough new episodes till OPPO gets the 983 out the door.... :eek:

:cool: / :rolleyes: -->:D

Kind of feels like we've run out of things to talk about in this thread, until there's an offical anoucement.

PS On a serious note though, I really appreciate all the information and responsiveness of the contributors of this thread. Of course Neuromancer stands out first and for most but also Gonk among others. Thanks!

Glad to help pass the time while we wait to see what OPPO's "swan song" ends up bringing to the table. :) As for the issue of when, Neuromancer hit the nail on the head. OPPO isn't going to sit on a new product if it's ready to ship, obviously, but they also aren't going to ship something that isn't solid. Doing that would risk damaging their position in the marketplace.

well, hopefully oppo reads this thread because if they do:

we want a SUPER-DUPER combo player that is 983 AND HD DVD triple layer +Blu-Ray quadruple layer and also the holodisc 16 layer playback for 1exabyte of data.

ok, maybe i'm stretching things just a bit =P.

and all the new audio formats!

Unfotunately for Oppo the market is moving very fast. You can already see by the volume of messages on SD DVD forum that for AV enthusiasts at least there is rapidly declining interest in SD only players. It is very hard to justify a mid-price one with the low and dropping prices on HD DVD and Blu-Ray players... We can only expect more downward price pressure and improved feature sets as we move into next year. All the BD CEs will have new players anouncing at CES, meaing more features, lower prices. The BD CEs have to or they will be out of the DVD player business.

After Christmas there will be a lot of Profile 1.0 BD players on clearance cheap, cheap. The PS3 will probably see further price erosion as it struggles to move enough units to keep it viable as game box in its competition with the XBOX 360. I understand the PS3 will soon support DivX. We have no idea how low Toshiba is prepared to go on price. They are just now shipping their complete 3rd gen line in quantity. They could be announcing 4th gen players at CES... is $79 the next barrier on an entry level HI Def player. Surely they can buy as many ABIT chips as anybody if they want to feature first class upscaling for entry level players.


The 983 is an anwer to a question that was valid 12 months ago, not so much today. Unless the 983 is going to be a $120 niche market device I can't see it having any shelf life at all if it does not launch until spring. This seems like a project that could get canceled.

If I was Oppo, I would be adding a first class tuner to this player and a network port and get it to use the scaling hardware to scale external inputs like many of the recievers are doing now. The days of the uspscaling SD players are very numbered.. and that number is a low number. You have to have some other attraction to profitably sell in Oppo's botique like volumes than just having a better than average cheap upscaling universal SD player.

I have the XA2 and even with the latest firmware which takes SD to levels I have never seen on any player before I still will not be watching very much SD material.. some concerts, maybe. HDM may still be a niche but HDM capable players are the replacement market product now.

Speaking of music I think the current Oppo business model can best be describes as Days of Future Passed.

I still think the 983 has a place for people who want the highest quality DVD playback and are waiting for either the HD media format war to end or for a dual format player with an attractive price.

I also have the HD-XA2 and I feel no pain watching DVDs on my 60" Pioneer Kuro plasma. If the 983 can equal the XA2 in image quality I would quickly get one for the OPPO quality, reliability and snappy response -- not to mention region-free DVD, SACD and DVD-Audio play-back.

I appreciate the higher resolution of HD media, but would much rather watch Star Wars movies in SD with good upscaling than the Chronicles of Riddick in HD. There is still a secure place for top notch DVD players.

A lot of good points about how fast the market is moving, and I largely agree. I am definitely in line to get the 983 mainly because there is yet so little content in HD, and because I watch some anime with potentially problematic cadences. I expect to 983 to be the best SD player on the market, even compared to the flagship Denon. Audio is also a very high priority for me. I expect a player like the XA2 to be close in price to the 983 by the time it's released, so Oppo definitely needs to differentiate itself to stay competitive. My dream is:

- A truly universal HD player with the speed of the Oppo dvd player, the region free and other goodies, and the same support for dvd-a and sacd. This is baseline and I suspect that toshiba, with the XA3 and others will have this feature set eventually.
- High end image processing equivalent to external video processors (powered by something like ABT2010), but at a fraction of the price of these units
- Support for all surround codecs, processing such as Pro Logic IIx, etc. This is all commodity stuff by now.
- Perhaps THX ultra 2 Plus certification as a pre/pro (thx volume plus, etc).
- A few external HDMI inputs for the dvr, game console, etc. all leveraging the video processor. Nothing like the zoo of mainly legacy inputs on todays receivers/processors.
- Good quality DACS, with THD+N less than .01%, SNR >100dB, good analog remote volume control, etc. The Oppo will be the last digital device in the chain...

This is basically a high end universal player/processor lifestyle product like Meridian and Arcam offerings, in a small, simple looking unit (think Wii, iPod, eee notebook...), but with the audio/video processing capabilities that can only come from a company that is responsive and has fast development cycles. If this comes in under a $1000 and simplifies and replaces the player/processor experience, then we'll have a winner, and I would buy one in a heartbeat. There is currently no all-in-1 7.1 unit on the Market, and certainly nothing that can go toe to toe with high end player and audio/video processors.

I understand that Oppo is a relatively small player compared to Sony and Toshiba, so they can't afford to take the same kind of bleeding edge risks. I'm hoping that once the war shakes out a bit more and the technology becomes more mature, that Oppo will do in the HD market that they did with SD DVD.

yourmando,

Oppo has made really good DVD players and I expect the 983 to continue that pattern. Their customer service is perhaps the best in the DVD market. But to say that you expect the 983 to be the best even compared to the flagship Denon is a stretch. The processing of the 983 has less functionality than the lower Reon chip. The top end Denon has the Realta chip. The 983 will have similar picture quality to the VP30 which is now 3 versions behind. It will be a fine player but hardly the best. I happen to think that the 980 has the best value for the money while the 981 is overpriced. If the 983 cames at the price of the 981 or less then it will be best at value for the money.

If audio is a high priority for you then check out the analogue section of the 980 as the 983 will have the same.

...to say that you expect the 983 to be the best even compared to the flagship Denon is a stretch. The processing of the 983 has less functionality than the lower Reon chip. The top end Denon has the Realta chip. The 983 will have similar picture quality to the VP30 which is now 3 versions behind. It will be a fine player but hardly the best.

I understand your point, but don't think the performance difference is as drastic as you say. I use a VP30/ABT102 to process all my SD content and the results are very good. The 983 uses the ABT102 processor, which is offered as an add-on board for the VP30. These algorithms aren't 3 versions behind though, they are the same ones used for SD and HD processing in DVDO's current VP50Pro. The video performance of the 983 should be very close, in most cases indistinguishable, from that of a Realta based player. Considering the huge price difference between the 983 and Denon's 3910 and 5910, the 983 is an extremely attractive player.

Well, if the 983 can upscale a decent bit better than my PS3, I'm in for one. So many SD discs it would be worth the price. So long as it upscales better than the HD/BR players that most people will use, there will be a market, as I bet there are a fair number of people w/large SD disc collections moving into HD tvs far faster than they will move into HD/BR for reasons of disc price and availability.

I understand your point, but don't think the performance difference is as drastic as you say. I use a VP30/ABT102 to process all my SD content and the results are very good. The 983 uses the ABT102 processor, which is offered as an add-on board for the VP30. These algorithms aren't 3 versions behind though, they are the same ones used for SD and HD processing in DVDO's current VP50Pro. The video performance of the 983 should be very close, in most cases indistinguishable, from that of a Realta based player. Considering the huge price difference between the 983 and Denon's 3910 and 5910, the 983 is an extremely attractive player.

Thanks for the explanation. I hope to replace my HTPC with this 983 or whatever options are available in the near future. One thing the HTPC does really well is noise reduction (using ffdshow post processing) that doesn´t sacrifice detail so long as you don´t get aggressive with the settings. This is something the Reon and Realta have but I understand the 983 will not have. It varies from disk to disk, sometimes the noise reduction makes a difference in solid blocks (like a wall in the background that looks like it´s snowing w/o NR) sometimes not.

Well, if the 983 can upscale a decent bit better than my PS3, I'm in for one. So many SD discs it would be worth the price. So long as it upscales better than the HD/BR players that most people will use, there will be a market, as I bet there are a fair number of people w/large SD disc collections moving into HD tvs far faster than they will move into HD/BR for reasons of disc price and availability.

While the PS3 is a pretty good SD player it was not quite at the level of the XA2 even before the latest XA2 firmware. The PS3 scales nicely and dinterlaces pretty well but it does so with quite a bit of noise added to the mix. I have both and I think pretty highly of the PS3 as SD player.. I think the 981 is fairly darn good if your TV is not a DLP or Plasma... There are things about the PS3 I don't like, but I would take a PS3 as an SD player before a 981.... I can't use a 981 at all on my big sets... it is gosh awful on them. I never tried it on my LCD... but I am not a big fan of LCDs for movie playback anyway..

of course, for some Oppo 983 potential purchasers, only the Oppo solution will fit perfectly. however, I think there are many potential 983 clients who will be ok to substitute to a PS3 or XA2. yes, the Oppo may still be better, but only slightly so. it will become a value proposition. (at $99, even the HD-A2 becomes tempting, despite its presumably inferior upscaling, and inability to go 1080p.)

assuming the Oppo will be around $300:
the XA2 adds a blu-ray player for about $250 extra.
the PS3 adds a blu-ray player and a game player [although few good games!] for about $100 extra.

PC-based scaling may be better, but it is *not* ready for ordinary end users. tinkerers only. nightmare for the rest of us.

as for me, it will probably be the PS3 after Xmas. I would have preferred region-free, but the PS3 seems to be just too good a value proposition; plus, I don't know when if ever the 983 will appear. if it were available at Xmas, I may change my mind.

if the Oppo could have added generic scaling for even one input for another $200 (i.e., $500), and even without a guarantee that it will work for every device on the planet, I would have gone Oppo immediately. it seems strange that this cannot be done for $200 (they already have the chips), especially for the old analog component HD where digital incompatibilities issues should have been less of a problem.

oh well...

/iaw

OPPO is aiming for the dedicated, hi-end market only with this product. They are hitting the people who normally would pay a grand or more for a dedicated piece of home theater equipment. They are not competing with HD DVD or Blu Ray.

So when is Oppo going to release a universal HD DVD and Blu-Ray player that also plays DVD Audio and SACD?

So when is Oppo going to release a universal HD DVD and Blu-Ray player that also plays DVD Audio and SACD?

I think that is a tall order :(

It seems that with the Panasonic dropping DVD A and the latest PS3 losing SACD, there will be not much choice for a truly "Universal" player.

The market for those "high rez" audio formats (I have around 20 of each) is about done. Used to go to BB as they HAD a great selection, but now, the few that are left are mixed in with the rest of the standard CD's (that I hardly ever browse through)

Only seem to be buying "HD AV" stuff now

So when is Oppo going to release a universal HD DVD and Blu-Ray player that also plays DVD Audio and SACD?

I don't know, but consider:

(1) What would you pay for such a device?

(2) What would it cost to manufacture?

(3) Have any of the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray manufacturers been making money on those machines yet?

-Bill

The Oppo 980 is $170. Decent HD DVD and Blu-Ray players cost about $500 each. This is nearly $1200 and requires three separate components. I would be willing to pay $500 to $700 in order to have only one component instead of three. Oppo has a reputation for high quality so such a player would probably be in very high demand. Without a truly universal player in this price range, I would probably just get a 980 and stay away from high definition DVD until one of the two formats dies.

It just occurred to me that neither format will die, they'll more likely just wither away to a niche like DVD-A and SACD. They'll be replaced by high def downloads to a massive hard drive from an easy access data base with the ability to make copies for private use, as long as it's paid for.

(1) What would you pay for such a device?
Honestly, no more than $500. Technology changes too much for something like a media player.
(2) What would it cost to manufacture?
A crapton more than my desirable price.
(3) Have any of the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray manufacturers been making money on those machines yet?
Blu-Ray manufacturers are making money on their hardware (which is why they are more expensive). Toshibia is bleeding money like it was in style.

It just occurred to me that neither format will die, they'll more likely just wither away to a niche like DVD-A and SACD.

No, they will not end up like SACD and DVD-Audio discs. The main reason for this is that SACD and DVD-Audio releases were either very selective (towards classical and jazz) or were not released simultaneously with the CD disc.

HD DVD and Blu-Ray also do not require "specialty" audio equipment to really take advantage of it. Yes, you can argue that you will require a HD television, but most users who are buying the new formats already have, or plan on having, a HD display.
They'll be replaced by high def downloads to a massive hard drive from an easy access data base with the ability to make copies for private use, as long as it's paid for.
High Definition downloading is still far off in terms of being a mainstream event. You have to remember that most of America is still on 1.5mbps connections. No one wants to waste a day downloading a file when they can just go to the store and purchase it. Downloading is an alternative to ownership or renting, not a replacement to.

In terms of media storage (self produced backups) most users still lack the skill to be able to do this. It also requires that they have amble HDD space (1:1 copies) or a beefy computer to do a proper transcoding. Media centers like the Pixel Magic, Popcorn Hour and other NHT based devices will take off in the coming years, but will not replace optical media.

Blu-Ray manufacturers are making money on their hardware (which is why they are more expensive). Toshibia is bleeding money like it was in style.

Source, please.

Blu-Ray manufacturers are making money on their hardware (which is why they are more expensive). Toshibia is bleeding money like it was in style.I hate to go OT, but since it already is...

Do you have a link to some sort of proof that all the BR manufacturers are making money and Toshiba is "bleeding money like it was in style"? BTW, how much money is Sony making on every PS3 that they sell? It is a BR player as well as a game machine, right?

Again, sorry for the OT continuation. Personally, I can't wait until Oppo enters the HDM arena - whenever that may be...

edit - Doh! George posted while I was typing! :)

Unfortunately I can't "link please." My information is purely on the QT and is to remain on the downlow. That is to say, my information is not written down in any public manor.

BTW, how much money is Sony making on every PS3 that they sell? It is a BR player as well as a game machine, right?

I am talking dedicated players like the Pansonic BMP-BDP30, and not a gaming machine like the PS3 (more complicated hardware).

Personally, I would pay $1,000+ for a machine that would handle HD DVD, BD, SACD, DVD-A AND lossless audio codecs via a USB connection. In fact, I'd likely buy two of them - one for audio and one for video to replace my similarly functioning 980's.

Roberta

usb will never happen because it wasn't designed with transmitting secure information like hdmi is. hollywood feels safer with hdcp, aacs, bd+... even though the first 2 has been "cracked" and the 3rd is imminent.

I'm in the same boat- however, if HD wins we do not have to pay for the BR. ;^). and then all the studios would re -make their whole library available in HD, with in a couple of months and make a fortune.... now they are just sitting there,

Personally, I would pay $1,000+ for a machine that would handle HD DVD, BD, SACD, DVD-A AND lossless audio codecs via a USB connection. In fact, I'd likely buy two of them - one for audio and one for video to replace my similarly functioning 980's.

Roberta

Lets stick to the 983, please. Thanks.

larry