Oppo with blu-ray, put me on the pre-order list now...

Oppo with blu-ray, put me on the pre-order list now...

DOn't start that stuff now. If you do, it'll make the long wait even longer... for all of us. :)

I too can appreciate that each set is different, but it has little effect on upscaling/deinterlacing performance from an Oppo or PS3. But we may have to disagree with that.

I pointed out that link in defense of the PS3 simply because a 40GB PS3 is within $50 (or the same price?) as the upcoming 983H. I don't have to point out it does blu-ray and a host of other things. Having owned some of the top SD DVD players made (XP50, Denon3910, Elite 59avi, etc) I can confidently say the PS3 is in the same league from a picture and deinterlacing performance. So, yes, I consider it "one of the best". Certainly the best SD player that "average Joe" can walk into Best Buy and purchase to watch his/her hundreds of legacy SD DVDs on.

I look forward to getting a 983H to replace my Denon 3910.

I think we can disagree amicably;)..To wit...even though each unit may benchmark to a certain level...unless the display is rendering the picture correctly...it will look like crap...Yes...? Further more... some chip sets in these player do a better job on certain displays..What good is a player that scores high benchmarks on one or 2 types of displays to some one if they have a display that the unit doesn't do well on? Oppo told me which model to buy for my 60" SXRD 2...and I did...I would think they should know their product better than any one here...and since the 983 is still being evaluated...I don't think the final build specs aren't ready yet any way...so we should wait & see how they stack up...

BTW...any j6p walking into BB around here will be steered towards BR players...wither they are the best available or not...That's how it's being done here...which I don't believe is proper..To me...I won't have a game box for any movie watching..My kids do...but on my system...there never will be one..I figure it this way...with the billions of SD movies for sale & rent...I don't really need to buy any HD movies for a while with my Oppo 980h ...and when I do feel the need...I have my XA-1kn to use..My next purchase will be some type of storage external system for my Dish HD-DVR...It's time to start downloading my on HD content..I mean between all the PPV movies available..and all the rest showing...why not...

Mac

What Oppo needs to do--no matter what the cost of the player--is to make a combination Blue-Ray/HD-DVD player with the best upconversion on planet Earth and the capability to do ANYTHING audio wise.

If any company would produce a player like that they could charge anything they wanted to for it!

What Oppo needs to do--no matter what the cost of the player--is to make a combination Blue-Ray/HD-DVD player with the best upconversion on planet Earth and the capability to do ANYTHING audio wise.

If any company would produce a player like that they could charge anything they wanted to for it!

The problem with that is, to produce such a component would be very costly to build.
The player would be so expensive that it would eliminate 90% of their customer base. Thus in doing so, would limit profitability.
They are kind-of already doing that with the 983, and based on my opinion, I don't think they'll be doing it again.
The most profit is made by selling the most units, and to sell the most units the product must be quality and affordable. Finding the happy medium between the two has been why Oppo is so successful to this point.

What Oppo needs to do--no matter what the cost of the player--is to make a combination Blue-Ray/HD-DVD player with the best upconversion on planet Earth and the capability to do ANYTHING audio wise.

If any company would produce a player like that they could charge anything they wanted to for it!

We can only hope:)

What Oppo needs to do--no matter what the cost of the player--is to make a combination Blue-Ray/HD-DVD player with the best upconversion on planet Earth and the capability to do ANYTHING audio wise.

If any company would produce a player like that they could charge anything they wanted to for it!


I would also like it to solve the Middle East situation if possible.

Ooo ya, and the AIDS crisis in Africa too. ;)

What I would like to see...is for them to sell their players in some of the major retailers...If they hooked up the same unit to the same sets and had all of them going at the same time...folks could actually see how well they do......Then put the regular priced HD & BR movies right buy them...along with the SD movies...Talk about a price comparison:p...But...if the 983 is the last of the sd players from them...it will be a real shame...

Mac

Well if little Oppo can't make a player like that what about Arcam or Denon--they already make players that cost out the wazoo--could they do it?

Do you really think that it would be too difficult for them to do it?

What I would like to see...is for them to sell their players in some of the major retailers...

They would cost twice as much then. Everyone in the distribution chain (understandably) needs a piece of the pie.

-Bill

As far as PQ how much better is the DV-983H over the DV-980H? I haven't seen this discussed adequately, just the audio aspects.

Depends on the content. For things like animations (cartoons, Japanese anime), video contents (music videos and television shows), and of course PAL, there is a noticeable difference in Picture Quality over the DV-980H. For film there is an appreciable difference, but you also have to remember that I am projecting onto a 77" screen.

Depends on the content. For things like animations (cartoons, Japanese anime), video contents (music videos and television shows), and of course PAL, there is a noticeable difference in Picture Quality over the DV-980H. For film there is an appreciable difference, but you also have to remember that I am projecting onto a 77" screen.

And over the DV-981HD for video?

And over the DV-981HD for video?

I'll second that question...

I'm still guessing brand new 1080p top of the line sets might benefit from the 983 over 981 but then some talk of using the 980 at 480i as a transport. This guessing gives me a headache.

Well if little Oppo can't make a player like that what about Arcam or Denon--they already make players that cost out the wazoo--could they do it?

Do you really think that it would be too difficult for them to do it?
Too difficult...? Nope, given enough time and money. But the player you describe (which I also would dearly like to have, if it existed) is so difficult that nobody has yet succeeded in making a player with that feature set (leaving performance of such a player out of the equation). Will such a player get made eventually? Probably, unless HD-DVD implodes suddenly (something that Toshiba doesn't seem likely to want to have happen), but it's a mighty tall order for any company. For a smaller company that needs to spend its resources smartly, it becomes a challenge that is probably still too great to pursue aggressively.

For what it's worth, Denon is about to release two Blu-ray players. One will be a pure digital transport (only output on the rear panel is HDMI), while the other will offer 7.1 analog output. Both are Blu-ray profile 1.1 (no network connection, so no Profile 2.0). Neither include support for DVD-A or SACD. Neither include support for HD-DVD. The transport will list for $1500 and the player will list for $2000. I'm afraid to know what they'd charge for a combo/universal player...

By the time they get around to making a combo/universal player Blue Ray-Players will be selling for $99 at Wal-Mart and they'll want $999 for it and people at these forums will swear it's a great deal for the money!

And over the DV-981HD for video?

DV-981HD appears softer and can cause macroblocking enhancement errors. The DV-983H does not suffer from these two ailments.

Not to keep the sidetrack going, but ... ;) I wonder if Warner's decision would help a company like Oppo decide to do things a little faster? IOW, before, if I was Oppo, I'd be thinking about a dual format player to cover all bases, but that would cost more and take more development time and resources. But if HD DVD truly goes by the wayside, then it's a heckuva lot easier to just do a BD player. Could hit the market sooner ...

I second that notion Kevin.

Warner's announcement does not effect OPPO much. The main reason for this is that the public still has no incentive to switch to Blu-Ray. Why should someone pay $300 for a high definition Blu-Ray player when they can find a HD DVD player for $149.00 when they go into Wallmart?

Most consumers don't even know about the Warner's switch in alliance. They just know that they can get HD DVD for $150, and that $150 will also give them 7 free movies. Unless retailers start putting up warning signs like "Warner Brothers will no longer be producing HD DVD discs in March", this is likely to not change.

Summation: Hardware wise, HD DVD players are making more money than Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray sells more software, but OPPO makes no money off of software sold.

I think, I perceive, Oppo's niche strengths to be upconversion and region free-ness. If it can upconvert reasonably better then my PS3, I'm in for the 983. And region-free would be a bonus, but there's only one film on my non-R-1 buy list, Danton (b/c why have a list w/o a player).

To some degree all this talk of purple + 983, or more realistically just Blu, may distract Oppo from its niche strengths. Although if it could pull off region free Blu, then voila, back to its niche strengths.

I may be wrong, but Oppo may not be big enough to fight on too many fronts. So it should pick its battles, and I think it should stick to its niches.

What do others think its niches are? Is region free Blu legally a non-starter?

For someone like OPPO they need to differentiate themselves. The easiest solution for this would be to make a Blu-Ray or HD DVD player with DVD-Audio and SACD support while keeping the multi-channel analog outputs.

If you can allow for region free playback (DVD and Blu-Ray), then you further solidify your position.

That would be great, and that is the kind of niche-play I would encourage. I would also bet (tell me if I'm wrong) that Oppo buyers are enthusiasts. Thus they probably have decent SD-DVD libraries. So I'd keep encouraging excellent upconversion. Also, b/c they appeal to enthusiasts, an HD player is not likely to be worth the investment for them.

No idea if this is true in the fanboy/war atmo of the format wars, but I read a roughly credible post somewhere that HD sales were already way down at Amazon. Can't speak to Walmart though (my guess is that online buyers are more knowledgeable).

Oppo's biggest competitor may often be themselves. I just got a 980H today to use as a 480i transport to a video processor. Amazing picture quality and sound. Unless the make a blu-ray player there is no reason to look anywhere else, or upgrade, if you're using it for SD dvd playback.

an HD player is not likely to be worth the investment for them.

If Oppo could do what Toshiba wouldn't...and make a non computer HD player...and all the extra's they are offering for SD disc in their players...they wouldn't be able to keep up with the demand...and HD DVD sales would go thru the roof....again...

BR has nothing as far as picture quality & sound over HD DVD...Even over my 1st generation XA-1 with 2.0 firmware installed.....let alone one of the current models...Studio support wouldn't be an issue any longer if a player like this were made available...Oppo has their act together when it comes to these players...and if they could keep the price were they are right now...with the features they have available now....Man...I could only wish for this to happen...The loud sucking sound would be Sony & Warner sucking in copious amounts of air if it ever came to be...It's too bad Toshiba doesn't understand most folks don't want a computer for a movie player...they just want a player that is just like what they have been accustomed to with SD...but better...They want all the features tuned on when they buy it..and they want to be able to enjoy it...with out having to worry about having to hook it up to the internet and download firm ware release after firm ware release to have it work properly...

Mac

Is region free Blu legally a non-starter?

No can do. The BDA is very strict about this. They've learned from history. Technically, a region-free player could be made for a jurisdiction where region-coding is illegal. But are there any such places, and would anyone manufacture for them, and could you get one of the units?

It's frustrating that they can get away with such a blatant restraint of trade policy.

These and related topics are discussed at length in the Questions to Insiders sticky thread in HDTV Software Media forum: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=899842

-Bill

If Oppo could do what Toshiba wouldn't...and make a non computer HD player...and all the extra's they are offering for SD disc in their players...they wouldn't be able to keep up with the demand...and HD DVD sales would go thru the roof....again...
It was really only that first generation of HD-DVD players that were built from PC parts. Later players (the ones that cut start-up and load times in half, from truly miserable to something approaching merely tedious) migrated to a more conventional consumer electronics approach. And for that matter, if you look at standalone players for both formats, Toshiba could reasonably be argued to have done a better job across the board than their Blu-ray competitors (even without considering the aggressive pricing they've been offering recently). The reason that HD-DVD is in trouble isn't the players, it is the software library. Stacking HD-DVD support on top of an OPPO DVD player feature set wouldn't do a thing to help the studio support behind HD-DVD.

I have no doubt that OPPO will build an HD player at some point, but there are very good reasons why they haven't done so yet and aren't making any promises on when they will do so. Prior to the recent Warner announcement, I'd hoped that they would be able to come up with a combo player (and I still wouldn't mind seeing that happen). At this point, a Blu-ray player (with at least some of the traditional OPPO feature set for DVD's) would seem like it might be a smarter business decision, but we'll see what the next year or so brings.

My understanding...( haven't pulled any apart..but others have ) is that they are still this way...with motherboard memory & all...The Toshiba venture tainted by the Microsoft stench is IMHO what has held these players back..Having a interactive disc is a total waste for the majority of people...and needing a computer to play them on is also stupid IMHO...Start up times have improved..but are still painfully slow as compared to almost any SD player..or BR player...Even with the various things wrong with them...they are still the best for picture & sound..and with as many of them that have been sold..along with as many movies that have been sold...there will be a market there for a really long time...So...as far as them offering a BR player as being a smarter business decision...I totally disagree...Warner isn't the only maker of movies on the market...Yes...they have the Lions share for sure...but...for some to act like their decision to go blue was the death knoll for HD-DVD is far fetched at best...HD-DVD players are still out selling the BR players...and there are starting to be some serious inquiries to some of the marketing strategies that have been implemented..to kill off competition in this market...The time is ripe for a fresh approach to HDDVD...and I believe Oppo could be the one to do it..and I certainly wish those who make these types of decisions understand that the bulk of the HD-DVD enthusiast don't want another Web TV device...there are cheap computers on the market for that already...

If you build it...They will come

Mac

...HD-DVD players are still out selling the BR players....
From a report from last February, almost a year ago:

"Representatives for Sony's Blu-ray format sing a different song [vs. HD-DVD sales], saying that surpassing HD DVD in disc sales was no big surprise. Chief among its newfound dominance, they claim, are the technical superiority of the format, the launch of the PS3, and better availability of titles and players.

It should be noted that so far this year, Blu-ray titles have outpaced HD DVD releases by a 2-to-1 margin."

[cough-cough] back on topic...

...a few easy questions about the 983H (or the current players if applicable):

Will they play a 576i (?) PAL disc? Will the addition of the excellent ABT chipset allow for framerate conversion to NTSC?

Has 1080/24p output been officially jettisoned as an output format option? That was something that I was really looking forward to, and would be a big selling & differentiation point, IMHO.

-John

[cough-cough] back on topic...

...a few easy questions about the 983H (or the current players if applicable):

Will they play a 576i (?) PAL disc? Will the addition of the excellent ABT chipset allow for framerate conversion to NTSC?

Yes. All the Oppos play PAL and do PAL->NTSC conversion (and vice versa).

Has 1080/24p output been officially jettisoned as an output format option? That was something that I was really looking forward to, and would be a big selling & differentiation point, IMHO.

Nothing is official, but there has never been the slightest hint of that feature on the 983. Don't count on it.

-Bill

It was really only that first generation of HD-DVD players that were built from PC parts. Later players (the ones that cut start-up and load times in half, from truly miserable to something approaching merely tedious) migrated to a more conventional consumer electronics approach. And for that matter, if you look at standalone players for both formats, Toshiba could reasonably be argued to have done a better job across the board than their Blu-ray competitors (even without considering the aggressive pricing they've been offering recently). The reason that HD-DVD is in trouble isn't the players, it is the software library. Stacking HD-DVD support on top of an OPPO DVD player feature set wouldn't do a thing to help the studio support behind HD-DVD.

...

Kris Deering has a different take on Toshiba vs. Blu-ray standalone players, as he opined in a recent review http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cd-dvd-player-product-reviews/dvd-players/samsung-bd-p1400-blu-ray-player_2.html

The Blu-ray camp has always been the most consistent when it comes to video playback quality. Toshiba has delivered quite a few HD DVD players onto the market, but their video output features and quality have been vastly different from each other, and in my opinion, not nearly as impressive across the board as the Blu-ray camp.

More to the point of whether the forthcoming 983 can find a niche in this evolving market, the two reviews of Blu-ray players Kris has recently done as posted on Secrets http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/ indicate that their playback of standard def DVDs has regressed. I suggest that this might be a trend. When the high def disc players from both camps first came out, the hucksters were quick to claim that they could play your DVD library in hi-def, too. An important marketing tool, since high-def discs from both competing camps were few as compared with the multitude of DVDs.

But, Kris notes that two new third gen Blu-ray players he just reviewed have less than top-flight playback of DVDs. I wonder as player prices drop and sales of high-def discs increase, whether quality playback of DVDs will become less important in their design and marketing, leading to renewed interest in the OPPO 983.

I hope so.

Dana

Interesting Dana. I've never heard of the quality of sd upconversion in HD players regressing. This is new news to me, and good news for Oppo and the 983. I'll definately have to take a look at those articles.

Interesting news especially as Toshiba are now marketing their HD-DVD players as upscaling SD-DVD players.

No can do. The BDA is very strict about this. They've learned from history. Technically, a region-free player could be made for a jurisdiction where region-coding is illegal. But are there any such places, and would anyone manufacture for them, and could you get one of the units?

I'm pretty sure I'm right in saying that the Australian government has declared region coding a restraint of trade.

I currently have a 971 and a 42" Toshiba LCD and whole slew of discs from regions 1/2/4; macroblocking is the only problem - if the 983 can sort that, I'm in...

I currently have a 971 and a 42" Toshiba LCD and whole slew of discs from regions 1/2/4; macroblocking is the only problem - if the 983 can sort that, I'm in...

It will not have the macroblocking issues of the 971/981. Neither does the 980, which is a lot cheaper, although PAL playback is not as good.

I see macroblocking only once in a blue moon on my LCD even with the 971 and 981; most reports come from DLP owners.

-Bill

I'm pretty sure I'm right in saying that the Australian government has declared region coding a restraint of trade.

Australia, New Zealand and several other commonwealth nations require by law that any DVD player must be shipped without region instructions. However, these players are not to be sold to non-residents.

For the BDA group there are two violations to their protection. A minor violation would be region unlocking (likely to not be punishable if the region unlocking comes out as a secrete menu or other service hack). OPPO could potentially allow for this loophole as they already have with their DVD products.

Just ordered a refurbed 970hd for my Mitsubishi 55011...and another 980 for one of the boys 36" in the bedroom...along with a couple of their hdmi switchers and a couple of extra cables...I'm looking forward to getting them set up correctly...as I know they are too..everything for just a little less than buying the Sharp BR player I was looking at last week......I'm happy...and am looking forward to getting one of the 983's when they come out...

Mac

For the BDA group there are two violations to their protection. A minor violation would be region unlocking (likely to not be punishable if the region unlocking comes out as a secrete menu or other service hack). OPPO could potentially allow for this loophole as they already have with their DVD products.

This makes it sound much more locked up: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12810217#post12810217

-Bill

983 will not suffer from macroblocking. It will also handle your PAL discs much better.

This makes it sound much more locked up: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12810217#post12810217

Yes and no. The problem with those outlines is that it would be impossible to apply this with hardware solutions for PCs. Since PC components are shipped, distributed, and installed internationally, these drives have to have a software control (which is hardware locked) for the region coding.

For someone like OPPO, who has no international presence in countries like New Zealand, Australia and England, they can claim that the support for region changing is to facilitate the regulations of the region enforcement of the specific region for retail distribution. It is just a matter of course that the software alterations just happen to be usable by the end user (see: Console Modchipping).

Depends on the content. For things like animations (cartoons, Japanese anime), video contents (music videos and television shows), and of course PAL, there is a noticeable difference in Picture Quality over the DV-980H. For film there is an appreciable difference, but you also have to remember that I am projecting onto a 77" screen.

By any chance do you own a ps3? ;) If you do, how does it compare to the 983h in upscaling?

These 2 machines are in the same price range but the ps3 is more versatile.

I've personally never used the PS3 as a DVD player. If I find some time this weekend I will try to do a couple of comparison runs.

I've personally never used the PS3 as a DVD player. If I find some time this weekend I will try to do a couple of comparison runs.

I would be interested in your comparisons. Make sure your PS3 has firmware 2.10 ;)

I've personally never used the PS3 as a DVD player. If I find some time this weekend I will try to do a couple of comparison runs.

I dont know what the 983 looks like on SD but the PS3 looks fantastic!!!!!:eek:

Most consumers don't even know about the Warner's switch in alliance.

Are you sure about that? :) http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Industry_Trends/Disc_Sales/Blu-ray_Dominates_Disc_Sales_Chart_Post-Warner_Announcement/1383

The 2:1 BD to HD DVD ratio has swung way over in just a very short time. I was surprised it was this fast. I have an HD DVD player, and even I say the format is on its last legs. Oppo's differentiator will be price, good SD DVD upscaling/deinterlacing included, and customer support. That doesn't exist right now for any blu-ray player. So there's opportunity now.

There are several problems with that. First, there were no HD DVD releases the first week of January. The second week of January had only two releases which are notable: Pianist and Zodiac. Both films are rather niche (especially Zodiac, which was released on DVD months ago, and did not do that well in theaters). The Kingdom went on sale 3 weeks prior, and beat out all other HD titles. The week of January 2 and 9 were solid in comparison for Blu-Ray. You have the Resident Evil Trilogy series (Jan 2) followed by 3:10 to Yuma, The Rock, Man On Fire, and Sunshine (niche).

Second, as stated previously, the biggest response OPPO needs to care about is hardware uptake (OPPO makes no money on software sales). Hardware wise Toshiba is still killing. If you are tracking sales just on Amazon.com, Toshiba HD DVD players are the top selling products. This will also be the case in places like Walmart, where consumers will be enticed by the lower price point and the free HD DVD titles.

Third, promotional sales for Blu-Ray discs at loss leader Amazon.com were more impressive than HD DVD. Amazon.com since New Years has had 200+ BD titles as Buy-1-Get-1-Free (I know I took advantage of this for multiple discs).

There are several problems with that. First, there were no HD DVD releases the first week of January. The second week of January had only two releases which are notable: Pianist and Zodiac. Both films are rather niche (especially Zodiac, which was released on DVD months ago, and did not do that well in theaters). The Kingdom went on sale 3 weeks prior, and beat out all other HD titles. The week of January 2 and 9 were solid in comparison Blu-Ray. You have the Resident Evil Trilogy series (Jan 2) followed by 3:10 to Yuma, The Rock, Man On Fire, and Sunshine (niche).

Second, as stated previously, the biggest response OPPO needs to care about. Hardware wise Toshiba is still killing. If you are tracking sales just on Amazon.com, Toshiba HD DVD players are the top selling products. This will also be the case in places like Walmart, where consumers will be enticed by the lower price point and the free HD DVD titles.

Third, promotional sales for Blu-Ray discs at loss leader Amazon.com were more impressive than HD DVD. Amazon.com since New Years has had 200+ BD titles for Buy-1-Get-1-Free.

Thank you for that :D. I didn't have the strength to put into it when I pretty much would have said the same thing, if I had all those facts on hand. Obviously Toshiba is not going to roll over and play dead. Just on a hunch :rolleyes:, I'd say they probably have a fairly aggressive marketing stradegy planned. Starting with selling twice as many players as BR over the last 2 months...

When the Warner rumer turned true, I was pretty shocked myself. I was already in the market to go purple, but the high prices of BR players, as well as their arrogance of using the general public as glorified beta testers, has kept me from squeezing the trigger. Now that I have had time to mull it over, and with the new prices on HD-DVD players, I'm thinking of puting the money I was going to put into a BR player, toward an A35 to replace my $99 A2. I just wish it was for an Oppo HDM player, but in due time I guess...

I had promised myself I was going to wait before I jumped into this HD frenzy, untill at least sping or summer. However when I learned that it would most likely be till the end of the year before Oppo put out any HDM players, well, I couldn't help myself. I'll be there ready to wrap my hands around the glorious first Oppo HDM player when it comes around, but until then, I gotta have some HDM baby :D.
AND... until then, the Oppo DV-983H will be spinning my huge library of sd-dvds, making them look better than ever.

(ya see how I kept it on topic there at the end?... pretty slick huh? :))

Neuromancer,

Am I reading you right that Toshiba's HD DVD players are the biggest competitors to Oppo? Yet you are going to check out a PS3?

Why not check out a H2-XA2? There are many posts on the HD DVD players forum claiming that it has the best std DVD upconversion. We get to see Reon against ABT. And while at it you can see if the noise reduction (customizable) on the Reon makes it a better choice or not than the ABT which doesn't have it.

I've been quite satisfied with the image I have been getting with my 980 at 480i over HDMI feeding a Pioneer Kuro 1080p plasma. Is there any reason to believe that the 983 would be an improvement over the 980 for 480i image quality? Is improvement even possible?:confused:

I've been quite satisfied with the image I have been getting with my 980 at 480i over HDMI feeding a Pioneer Kuro 1080p plasma. Is there any reason to believe that the 983 would be an improvement over the 980 for 480i image quality? Is improvement even possible?:confused:

no improvement at 480i
the main feature of the 983 over 980, is deinterlacing

Am I reading you right that Toshiba's HD DVD players are the biggest competitors to Oppo? Yet you are going to check out a PS3?

I am talking purely as a price stand point. On a purely price level it is ridiculous to purchase the DV-983H. At the price of the DV-983H you can purchase a HD DVD player and several HD DVD titles.

On a performance level, this comes down to your personal needs. If you need region free playback, PAL<->NTSC conversions, DivX/XviD, DVD-Audio and SACD audio support, then the DV-983H makes great sense. If, however, these functions are of no interest, then the Toshiba HD-XA2 is a great solution with quality HD DVD and DVD support.

Why not check out a H2-XA2?

I would if I had one. All of my equipment has been bought (save my recent OPPOs, as they were procured as Beta Test units). I bought a HD-A1 when it came out, and never bothered replacing. I am a gamer at heart, so I already have a PS3 on my shelves for easy caparisoning.
There are many posts on the HD DVD players forum claiming that it has the best std DVD upconversion. We get to see Reon against ABT. And while at it you can see if the noise reduction (customizable) on the Reon makes it a better choice or not than the ABT which doesn't have it.

Personally I am against noise reduction. I prefer preserving the encode as closely as possible. Yes, DVDs can be mastered poorly, but I at least know that the poor quality is due to the disc, and not my settings/equipment.

On a performance level, this comes down to your personal needs. If you need region free playback, PAL<->NTSC conversions, DivX/XviD, DVD-Audio and SACD audio support, then the DV-983H makes great sense.

For us living in PAL land PAL de-interlacing is an important criterion, and for me SACD playback over HDMI as well.

I've been quite satisfied with the image I have been getting with my 980 at 480i over HDMI feeding a Pioneer Kuro 1080p plasma. Is there any reason to believe that the 983 would be an improvement over the 980 for 480i image quality? Is improvement even possible?:confused:

No one has said that the 983 will have 480i over HDMI. Note that the 970/980 do, but the 981 doesn't.

-Bill

So when is the 983 going to be released for sale?

So when is the 983 going to be released for sale?

No-one knows an exact date yet. Hoping Feb/March.

Neuromancer: Thanks for offering to do the PS3 and 983 comparison. It would be greatly valuable ot me and I believe many others reading this thread.

Once again a big THANKs for all your contributions.

Neuromancer: Thanks for offering to do the PS3 and 983 comparison. It would be greatly valuable ot me and I believe many others reading this thread.

Once again a big THANKs for all your contributions.

Yes I think we are all waiting for this as it starts to give us some reference point!

The DV-980H has component outputs.
opposhop.com/en/help/42/detailed_technical_specifications_dv980h_english

Will the DV-983....... also have component interface and at what progressive/interlaced scan levels ?

Will it support for unencrypted DVD discs at
PAL: 720p/576p/576i or ?
NTSC: 720p/480p/480i or ?

Will it have 480i/480p (576p/576i ) output over component with commercially pressed DVD discs that are CSS-encrypted or ?

The component output will upconvert and do progressive scan. Interlaced I will have to check, since there have been some firmware changes which I have not applied to my unit yet.

There are several problems with that. First, there were no HD DVD releases the first week of January. The second week of January had only two releases which are notable: Pianist and Zodiac. Both films are rather niche (especially Zodiac, which was released on DVD months ago, and did not do that well in theaters). The Kingdom went on sale 3 weeks prior, and beat out all other HD titles. The week of January 2 and 9 were solid in comparison for Blu-Ray. You have the Resident Evil Trilogy series (Jan 2) followed by 3:10 to Yuma, The Rock, Man On Fire, and Sunshine (niche).

The sales figure is for *all* sales, not just new releases. The data that I've seen has been pretty consistent no matter what individual titles have been released by either side at any given time. 2:1 BD to HD DVD. But now, it's over 4:1.

Second, as stated previously, the biggest response OPPO needs to care about is hardware uptake (OPPO makes no money on software sales). Hardware wise Toshiba is still killing. If you are tracking sales just on Amazon.com, Toshiba HD DVD players are the top selling products. This will also be the case in places like Walmart, where consumers will be enticed by the lower price point and the free HD DVD titles.

I don't think Toshiba is making money on their players when they sell A2's for $100 and A3's for $200. I suspect they are also paying for (or at least heavily subsidizing) all the free discs being given away too. They are simply trying to saturate the market with enough players in the hopes that enough people will buy software to convince the studios to continue to support HD DVD. But that isn't happenning.

Third, promotional sales for Blu-Ray discs at loss leader Amazon.com were more impressive than HD DVD. Amazon.com since New Years has had 200+ BD titles as Buy-1-Get-1-Free (I know I took advantage of this for multiple discs).

Amazon is just one reseller. There's also CC, BB, and other electronics stores, like Frys here locally. Just last weekend BB here had a buy 3 get 2 free deal for HD DVD.

Really, Neuromancer, I don't understand why you seem so negative about Oppo manufacturing and then selling a BD player. :) They *are* going to do it, simply due to the fact that offering DVD players for $170 to $300 is not a sound business strategy for the future. The only question is "when". I posted in another thread, and I'll say it again: when I picked up my machine at Oppo in Mt View, I talked extensively with one of the people there. First, I questioned him about a lot of things, and it was clear to me that he knew what he was talking about, and he knew what Oppo was up to internally. Second, I also got the sense that Oppo at that point was already working on a high def player. (This is 4 or 5 months ago.) Third, the real sense I got was that something's coming this year. Later in the year. I guess time will tell, aay? ;)

The component output will upconvert and do progressive scan. Interlaced I will have to check, since there have been some firmware changes which I have not applied to my unit yet.


Thanks that it will have component out also !

It is sad that studios could not properly agree the HD format before market entry. This war is different than the video cassette war (beta, vcr, vhs) long time ago, which was more player manufactures war, because video cassette recorder was more a "copy time machine". Movies were watched more in theaters at that time. Key players now are the studios in selecting the content format. Select it quickly and there will be more content sales.

As a consumer I appreciate that Oppo plans to offer latest best SD tech for wise money and when war is over, it is again time to upgrade to latest more advanced best tech for money unit, that could play SD and the High definition winner format. It makes sense to upgrade often when the chip-evolution is that fast.

No one has said that the 983 will have 480i over HDMI. Note that the 970/980 do, but the 981 doesn't.

-Bill

So it's entirely unknown whether the 983 will 480i over HDMI?

^^^^ I wouldn't make a lot of sense to buy the 983 for 480i output. What other features will the 983 have over the 980 that would justify buying it? Although having 480i output would be nice so one could compare the player to some other piece of equipment doing deinterlacing and/or scaling.

larry

My 981 doesn't have component out which was no big thing until I bought a flat panel TV to complement my projector and can't run DVD to the new TV without either removing the HDMI plug that goes to my pj or getting a 1>2 HDMI adapter, if such a thing exists.
I'll get the 983 ASAP. Still, I wish there were plans for a 983/Blu-Ray player for 2009.

Oppo do their own 4 into 1 HDMI switcher I believe?

Oppo do their own 4 into 1 HDMI switcher I believe?

3 - 1, not 4 - 1. If it was the latter, I would have bought one.

Oppo has the best customer service and support. Each person that you speak with is very knowledgeable and helpful. I have three units and they all work fine. I understand the problem with blue ray and hopefully they will have a product to serve the market soon.

Kevin,
Maybe the HDdvd camp is just trying to get rid of inventory since the war is about over.

Kevin,
Maybe the HDdvd camp is just trying to get rid of inventory since the war is about over.

no

Kevin,
Maybe the HDdvd camp is just trying to get rid of inventory since the war is about over.

This *is* one possibility. Toshiba is trying to get *something*, *anything* for the remaining hardware they have already manufactured, before the only 2 studios left switch to blu-ray.

Smarty-pants
Care to clarify?
With all of the great deals on the players and dvd's (HD) I wouldn't doubt it if the HDDVD camp knew of Warner Bros. decision before CES.

Kevin,
Maybe the HDdvd camp is just trying to get rid of inventory since the war is about over.

The War isn't over by no means...A major battle was lost...that's all...There is no way Toshiba will eat the millions...if not billions on R&D and production cost to call it a day...no way...They can't afford to...

Mac

Smarty-pants
Care to clarify?
With all of the great deals on the players and dvd's (HD) I wouldn't doubt it if the HDDVD camp knew of Warner Bros. decision before CES.

I'm quite certain Tosh/HDDVD knew before CES. Maybe they didn't know it'd be *announced* before CES of course. Many people would need to be fired if someone somewhere didn't know what was about to happen.

The War isn't over by no means...A major battle was lost...that's all...There is no way Toshiba will eat the millions...if not billions on R&D and production cost to call it a day...no way...They can't afford to...

Sounds like me in Vegas during my 20s. "I've lost 1000 bucks. I'm in wayyy too much money to stop now!" Fortunately the term "cutting my losses" actually means something to me now that I'm in my 30s. :)

It's hard to imagine Toshiba beating a dying horse until long after its heart stops beating. It is dying, just not dead yet. ("Bring out yer dead!") The war is over when there are no new HDDVD releases.

However, if there's a future in HDDVD for data storage or some other unthought of application, maybe they can mitigate their losses somewhat like Sony tried to do with SACD. Even after external hard drives came to market some people still liked and purchased Zip Disks!

Or maybe they're trying to pull a late-inning rally by hitting the market with a cheaper option to Blu like Nintendo did to Sony/Microsoft with the Wii. If that's the case, I think it's too little too late for that, in my opinion. The time for that would have been right from the beginning. Now it looks like a hail mary instead of bold business.

Yes, they knew before CES, but only briefly. Prices of players have been reduced to help flood the market with HD-DVD players. The more they sell, the more likely they will end up overtaking or running parallel with Blu. It's very simple really. Most people will/can not shell out $300-$500 for a BR, but they CAN afford $150 for HD... especially around tax-return time ;).The timing of price reductions coinciding with the WB defection is mostly coincidental. The price reduction was, I believe, slated for around Superbowl time, but because of WB, they pushed the date up. Remember, this is not the first time they have sold players on the cheap. Thanksgiving time was when you could pluck off an A2 for $99... and WB was still purple.
I have heard "through the grapevine" that HD is not even coming close to lieing down. They have a marketing tradegy in place. There will be new deals ect coming down the line. Just wait and see, they are NOT dead... not even close.

...[snip] ... getting a 1>2 HDMI adapter, if such a thing exists.
Taking one signal and sending it to multiple devices requires a distibution amp. I have no idea if this one is any good, but here's an example of something that might solve your problem. (http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20distribution%20amp_splitter%202%20port.html).

I am a gamer at heart, so I already have a PS3 on my shelves for easy caparisoning.


Hi Neuromancer, you've been tremendous help on this thread (and others). Could you please do a PS3 vs. 983 comparison when you have time?? I've been debating the two for a while.

Thank you,

thanks Skipsterut. I think I'll just wait for the 983, send HDMI to my pj and component to my TV, that'll be less expensive and easier than getting a separate distribution amplifier. OPPO has a nice switcher for those with the opposite problem of too many HDMI outputs.

The more they sell, the more likely they will end up overtaking or running parallel with Blu.

You aren't getting it. :) No matter how many *machines* Toshiba sells at any price, that still doesn't make up for the fact that there are simply more and better titles on blu-ray. Both my local Frys and 2 local BB's have BD sections twice as large as HD DVD. And now with only 2 major studios left for HD DVD releases (vs 5 for blu), it will get even worse. Plus, as soon as more and more people find out about Warner's decision, they will quite buying the few HD DVDs that do exist. I've already started dumping my HD DVDs. I figure I'll get more $$ for them now, than 3 to 6 months from now. ;)

You aren't getting it. :) No matter how many *machines* Toshiba sells at any price, that still doesn't make up for the fact that there are simply more and better titles on blu-ray. Both my local Frys and 2 local BB's have BD sections twice as large as HD DVD. And now with only 2 major studios left for HD DVD releases (vs 5 for blu), it will get even worse. Plus, as soon as more and more people find out about Warner's decision, they will quite buying the few HD DVDs that do exist. I've already started dumping my HD DVDs. I figure I'll get more $$ for them now, than 3 to 6 months from now. ;)

A lot of stores push BR harder for one main reason... profit. More profit margin on BR than HD. Plus every store is different. My local BesBuy has avery small section dedicated to BR and HD both. Of all the HDM players, they usually only have 3-4 in stock. Not 3-4 models, but 3-4 players period! So every place is different.

So you believe everyone will be content to not own/watch anything from Universal or Paramount?:rolleyes: You can't put a puzzle together without all the pieces.;)

Most people didn't know about Paramount's flip-flopping, and they don't know about WB either. Hell, most people don't understand BR and HD period. What most will do, is buy into HD to get their feet wet if they can do it at a modest price. That price is NOT $300-$1000 for a BR player, it's <$150 for an HD player.

The media alone has done more damage than anyone to HD DVD declaring the format war over (which it really is). It's just a matter of time before HD DVD is no longer in retail stores and Paramount and Universal (who are getting rid of inventory) are aboard Blu-ray. The Warner announcement was really about ONE format which is desired by the vast majority of consumers, studios, manufacturers, and retailers. The current Toshiba "marketing plan" is really not much different than liquidation. In another six months, I really think AVS will no longer be having these debates. lol

what kind of noise reduction and detail enhancement will this player feature? Is it going to be as good as the newer devices like Algolith's Mosquito, etc etc ?

The media alone has done more damage than anyone to HD DVD declaring the format war over (which it really is). It's just a matter of time before HD DVD is no longer in retail stores and Paramount and Universal (who are getting rid of inventory) are aboard Blu-ray. The Warner announcement was really about ONE format which is desired by the vast majority of consumers, studios, manufacturers, and retailers. The current Toshiba "marketing plan" is really not much different than liquidation. In another six months, I really think AVS will no longer be having these debates. lol

So exactly what does "Paramount and Universal (who are getting rid of inventory)" mean?? If there is some type of "firesale" going on, because I am completely in the dark on that one.:rolleyes:

To be perfectly honest, I don't care what format wins. I like HD-DVD better right now because their players are not PLAGUED with as many annoying problems as BR, and their players are all "up to spec", unlike BR players that are all glorified beta machines. I have absolutely no clue what-so-ever why BR is winning this "war" right now. Only two reasons I can think of really... Warner Brothers and PS3, because there is no technical reason why they should be winning. TECHNICALLY, they should be in the dumper.

Anyway, Toshiba is not laying down. I already stated what I "heard". I will leave it at that...

what kind of noise reduction and detail enhancement will this player feature? Is it going to be as good as the newer devices like Algolith's Mosquito, etc etc ?

There is no information available to the public regarding any typr of features like that yet.

The media alone has done more damage than anyone to HD DVD declaring the format war over (which it really is). It's just a matter of time before HD DVD is no longer in retail stores and Paramount and Universal (who are getting rid of inventory) are aboard Blu-ray. The Warner announcement was really about ONE format which is desired by the vast majority of consumers, studios, manufacturers, and retailers. The current Toshiba "marketing plan" is really not much different than liquidation. In another six months, I really think AVS will no longer be having these debates. lol

It's not the media that is pushing JQP to BR players...it the technicians in the stores that are...and those same stores not replenishing their stock of HD-DVD's...A-lot of people have heard of the defection of WB...and what do they do...they go to their local store and see for themselves...What many don't understand is why don't the picture look good all the time...They don't understand about the signals from the various feeds...nor do they realize...the better the display...the easier it is to see all the irregularities:rolleyes:...As been stated before...most folks just want to put a movie in and watch it...with out head aches & hassles...Neither HD formats gives this...100%...because quite frankly...neither work perfectly to begin with...and neither do perfect on all the various displays out there..While game consuls may interest a lot of the younger generation...they don't most of us baby boomer crowd...With the latest players coming onto the market...things are getting better...but neither are in their prime yet...

To me...this is the beauty of the Oppo's...Their picture quality is near HD with their upscaling chips...and their audio performance is stellar...rivaling much higher priced units...and the ease of putting in a movie and watching it with out freezes or lock ups...makes it very pleasurable...all the while knowing I've saved a bunch of money...

I hope the 983 lives up to what you Beta testers have said they do...because I am looking forward to getting my hands on one for my main set...Then...I hope they get into the HD market full force...and come out with a HD-DVD player...and even if they go the opposite way...and make it a BR player...I'll get one of them as well...because with the quality product they build...I know it will be ready for prime time...and that is a good thing...

Mac

So, Neuromancer (or anyone else), how much of an upgrade will the 983 be over the 980 on a Pioneer 6070? How about on the audio side?

I think it may be a toss up there. The Pio has a good scaler. Audio-wise, the 983 will be close or the same as the 980. The main feature of the 983 is the deinterlacing from ABT. Maybe someone else can chime in, but I think it would be hard to tell the dif between the 980 and 983 on the Pio. Maybe get it and try it, if you you don't like it or think it's worth it, send it back.

How will the ABT de-interlacer compare to the Reon? The Reon does de-interlacing and scaling, but what is most unique in my mind is what it does with detail enhancement. You get an increased level of detail that is not "artifacty" or unnatural. I wonder how the ABT compares in that regard.

Anyone still know why someone is not giving us a comparison of the 983 to the PS3 on SD, I asked this weeks ago?

Maybe the PS3 was better in those tests?:rolleyes:

Anyone still know why someone is not giving us a comparison of the 983 to the PS3 on SD, I asked this weeks ago?

Maybe the PS3 was better in those tests?:rolleyes:

Maybe they're still trying to find all of the parts so that they can program their universal remotes.:confused:

Maybe they're still trying to find all of the parts so that they can program their universal remotes.:confused:

Maybe seems strange to me?;)

what kind of noise reduction and detail enhancement will this player feature?

No Noise Reduction. NR was only added to the VP50 Pro products. Haven't personally messed with the Sharpness enhancers on the player, as I prefer not artificially enhancing the picture.

Really, Neuromancer, I don't understand why you seem so negative about Oppo manufacturing and then selling a BD player. :)

There is no negativity, just an annoyance with the nativity and fickleness of consumers. Personally I do not believe that OPPO should be dropping any HD DVD or Blu-Ray player. It would be great as a marketing gimmick, but I do not see the sales of these players being high enough for someone like OPPO. It is barely profitable for the larger manufacturers.

OPPO will be forced to do HD DVD or Blu-Ray. What my concern is if they produce a subpar player just to "compete". OPPO is still in brand building mode, and they can't afford to produce a product which doesn't differentiate itself from the rest of the market.

Second, I also got the sense that Oppo at that point was already working on a high def player. (This is 4 or 5 months ago.)

I can for a fact state that they have not developed any hardware. The Warner announcement has pushed them into adapting one of the HD formats sooner than expected, but there is no hardware behind their next model. The DV-983H is [it] for the next year.

Anyone still know why someone is not giving us a comparison of the 983 to the PS3 on SD, I asked this weeks ago?

Maybe the PS3 was better in those tests?:rolleyes:

It may be because I am not being payed to give you said results. I am on these forums on my own personal time. Given a choice between wasting a couple of hours being entertained by a movie/game/television or performing a battery of intensive tests between several products, including one that is still in development, I will take the passive entertainment option.

For your information, I am less inclined to help out the forums when I see comments like these posted, emoticons and all.

Hi Neuromancer, you've been tremendous help on this thread (and others). Could you please do a PS3 vs. 983 comparison when you have time?? I've been debating the two for a while.

I was going to get around to it over the weekend, but several projects came up; one being my birthday. I will try to get around to something this weekend as I hope to have a an Integra 9.8 available for testing this weekend.

So, Neuromancer (or anyone else), how much of an upgrade will the 983 be over the 980 on a Pioneer 6070? How about on the audio side?

The PDP-6070 is a nice piece of technology. If you are primarily watching film media, then there will likely be no real advantage to the DV-983H. If you watch PAL, proper 2:2 Cadence support is wonderful on the DV-983H. Mixed cadence, video cadence, and other media sources will also look better on the DV-983H than a 480i transportation on the DV-980H to your display for processing.

It may be because I am not being payed to give you said results. I am on these forums on my own personal time. I personally would rather watch a movie than to run a battery of tests on a system that is still in development.

For your information, I am less inclined to help out the forums when I see comments like these posted, emoticons and all.

Maybe someone else will then.

Maybe someone else will then.

People who might know will be under non-disclosure agreements that prevent them from discussing specific features of the product.

-Bill

Neuromancer: There are many people strongly interested in the PS3 vs 983 comparison and I am glade to hear you will try to work in the testing. BTW Enjoy the Integra 9.8 while you have it!

I am also sure that everyone interested are level headed and patient enought to know a few things.

1) You have been a wealth of information and fequently answer questions promptly, all on your own time/merit without any incentive or gain other than to educate/assist others. This has been appreciated by more members than I can imagine.

2) The interested members (of course myself included) are smart enough to know it doesn't matter how long it takes to get this feadback not only because it's done on your own time but because the 983 is NOT for sale yet. Meaning we're not really even losing any time here by any delay of your assesment.

3) Most users would realize point 2 and I am surpirsed certian members do not realize this.

This forum is a place of being helpful and exchanging information, I'd like to see us not forget this.

(Other forums/threads throughout AVS have at times have forgot this.)

PS - Sorry if some see this post as pointless as it's OT and not providing any player information or talk but I find the community aspect of this place important to me. I also find myself wondering what the point of some antiproductive and rash postings could be.

I was going to get around to it over the weekend, but several projects came up; one being my birthday. I will try to get around to something this weekend as I hope to have a an Integra 9.8 available for testing this weekend.

Cool...it was my B-day over the weekend too (Jan. 18). WHAT?!?! You're getting an Integra 9.8??? Man... I was especially looking at that one... I can't wait to hear from you about how the Integra marries with the Oppo 983 or the PS3 or whatever you're gonna test it with!

Anyone still know why someone is not giving us a comparison of the 983 to the PS3 on SD, I asked this weeks ago?

Maybe the PS3 was better in those tests?:rolleyes:

Hold up! Whats the results from the comparison of the 980 to the PS3 first???

There's no need to put pressure on Neuromancer to compare the PS3 to the 983 when the latter hasn't even been released yet. That's a back door request for a review of the 983.

However, CNET did a review of the PS3 http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9722853-1.html?tag=txt which posted in late May 2007 and contained this comment.

The bottom line is that the PS3's upscaling is pretty good, although it doesn't compare to top-of-the-line players such as the Oppo DV-981HD or the new high-def disc players with HQV processing, such as the Samsung BD-P1200 and the Toshiba HD-XA2. On the other hand, the PS3's DVD performance is definitely a big step up from that of the Xbox 360 Elite. In the final analysis, when you consider that upscaling is just one of the many functions of the PS3, we think the performance is pretty impressive.

Note that a Secrets review of the third gen Samsung BD-P1400 indicates that upconverting of standard def DVDs has regressed in that model from the P1200.

Dana

for oppo-fans, isn't the suspense just killing us?!!?!?!??! =D. i've needed to replace my kitchen DVD player since august!!!

Yah it's been a while. But I feel like it's been a nice test being patient and I think it'll be worth it.

I know it's been 3 months for me anticipating the 983.

BTW are you thinking of placing a 983 in the kitchen or just doing the hand down player shuffle with the 983 in your main system? :)

So exactly what does "Paramount and Universal (who are getting rid of inventory)" mean?? If there is some type of "firesale" going on, because I am completely in the dark on that one.:rolleyes:

To be perfectly honest, I don't care what format wins. I like HD-DVD better right now because their players are not PLAGUED with as many annoying problems as BR, and their players are all "up to spec", unlike BR players that are all glorified beta machines. I have absolutely no clue what-so-ever why BR is winning this "war" right now. Only two reasons I can think of really... Warner Brothers and PS3, because there is no technical reason why they should be winning. TECHNICALLY, they should be in the dumper.

Anyway, Toshiba is not laying down. I already stated what I "heard". I will leave it at that...


Paramount and Universal are going to sell off their remaining HD DVD disc inventory - or a good bulk of it - before releasing on Blu-ray. If they were to release on BD today, the studios would be stuck with all of that excessive inventory. Any insider will tell you these two studios will be coming to Blu-ray by mid point this year. Toshiba is not lying down - they are marketing to the naive/fans and now pushing they are upscaling players lol. Best Buy will probably be dumping HD DVD by the end of Q2. I'm surprised you cannot see through the their spin and where the market is going right now. Anyway, the format war is essentially over and in a few more months I can come back and say I told you so. :rolleyes: :)


Regarding players - the Toshiba players are typically plagued by numerous bugs - particular audio dropouts, freezes, studders, clunky, etc. Toshiba has used consumers for beta testers too so I don't see how you can't see that. I've had experience with five different Toshiba players (HD-A1, XA2, A35, A30, and A2). There are countless posts by people in the HD DVD forum regarding problems. The Blu-ray players are certainly not perfect either as they have their own problems.

Would I be wasting my time to point out that there are plenty of these format war threads in the HD Media forum? See: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=114

Better there than here.

-Bill

You are 100% correct Bill. I appologize for going on and on with the OT discusion. Sometimes I try to share what info I have, but some people are too blind/ignorant/stupid/in-denial to realize what is going on. I am certainly finished discussing this here, and again I apologize to everyone for the inconvenience.

Will the 983 have a slot loading transport or a tray like the 981?

Sometimes I try to share what info I have, but some people are too blind/ignorant/stupid/in-denial to realize what is going on. I am certainly finished discussing this here, and again I apologize to everyone for the inconvenience.

Yep, some people really are. Even when the picture couldn't be painted more clear or things couldn't be more obvious. *sigh*


I agree to say no more about the matter and to keep this thread on track.

To me...this is the beauty of the Oppo's...Their picture quality is near HD with their upscaling chips...and their audio performance is stellar...rivaling much higher priced units...and the ease of putting in a movie and watching it with out freezes or lock ups...makes it very pleasurable...all the while knowing I've saved a bunch of money...



I'm sure the 983 will offer great deinterlacing and scaling, but I can tell you there is no comparison of SD DVD to even reasonably well done HD/BD. I mean we are talking roughly 480i (~300,000 pixels) vs 1080p (~2,000,000) aside from other benefits of far fewer compression artifacting, greater chroma resolutions, lossless audio, etc on BD.

Will the 983 have a slot loading transport or a tray like the 981?

tray

Thanks, Smarty-pants.

If it was slot loading, I may have given the 983 a past.

We shouldn't be prejudiced against gear just because it has a past. :p

We shouldn't be prejudiced against gear just because it has a past. :p

It's just that I use a Marigo Audio Signature 3-D Mat, that I presently use with my 981. Wanted to do the same with the 983.

If the 983 is will using a tray, then I'll await in line for the 983 with the others. :p

I'm sure the 983 will offer great deinterlacing and scaling, but I can tell you there is no comparison of SD DVD to even reasonably well done HD/BD.

At least us in PAL land can enjoy a slightly increased resolution: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Common_Video_Resolutions_2.svg compared to NTSC :D

Edit: Perhaps this link works better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/576i

I couldn't get it to open, but I do know there is often less filtering taking place on PAL DVD releases compared to NTSC (Lord of the Rings was a good example).

my main rig is a quadcore HTPC that can handle all the upconverting via software like ffdshow, etc. so the 983 will be the kitchen duty replacement. when i have a hdmi capable AV Receiver, i might either get another 983 or... hopefully 984 or 985 by then that plays BD as well, or move the 983 back for the high-res music discs.

i haven't had time to update my HT&HTPC spex here yet. i will when i have more time :D. i'm enjoying movies 2much :).

Yah it's been a while. But I feel like it's been a nice test being patient and I think it'll be worth it.

I know it's been 3 months for me anticipating the 983.

BTW are you thinking of placing a 983 in the kitchen or just doing the hand down player shuffle with the 983 in your main system? :)

There's no need to put pressure on Neuromancer to compare the PS3 to the 983 when the latter hasn't even been released yet. That's a back door request for a review of the 983.

However, CNET did a review of the PS3 http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9722853-1.html?tag=txt which posted in late May 2007 and contained this comment.

The bottom line is that the PS3's upscaling is pretty good, although it doesn't compare to top-of-the-line players such as the Oppo DV-981HD or the new high-def disc players with HQV processing, such as the Samsung BD-P1200 and the Toshiba HD-XA2. On the other hand, the PS3's DVD performance is definitely a big step up from that of the Xbox 360 Elite. In the final analysis, when you consider that upscaling is just one of the many functions of the PS3, we think the performance is pretty impressive.

Agree completely. I have a PS3 and a Samsung BD-P1200 w/Reon. The Samsung (when it isn't being a flaky POS) clearly produces a better image from SD sources. Like the article said, the PS3 is good but the Reon trumps it. (My setup includes a 1080p projector and a 110" diagonal screen.)

I was going to get around to it over the weekend, but several projects came up; one being my birthday...

Happy birthday!,
and thank you for putting your personal time into this and so many other threads. Your knowledge is invaluable, thank you for helping to educate this relative n00b.

Cheers

Will the 983 be firmware wise like the 970/981 which can be "tweaked" for us poor non HDCP compliant users, or will it be like the 980 which can't be defeated? I'm really interested in this player but my HDTV CRT only accepts component and my iScan HD+ will block analog output on HDCP'ed inputs.

Likely not. The DV-980H and the DV-983H share similar MTK solutions. These solutions fixed many of the HDCP hacks which were a part of the previous generations. I have not seen any new hacks for HDCP removal for the new hardware designs.

Likely not. The DV-980H and the DV-983H share similar MTK solutions. These solutions fixed many of the HDCP hacks which were a part of the previous generations. I have not seen any new hacks for HDCP removal for the new hardware designs.

I was hoping that even if the share a similar MKT solution, as the 983 has the ABT chips in the path, it could have a different implementation and there could be a chance of an open back door.

I also have a 34XBR970 (surely a cousin to yours) and I doubt I'd see whatever improvement the 983 would give me. The 980 is just what I wanted, right out of the box - my daughter even commented on the improvement - but I'd wager we'd have a hard time telling your 971 from my 980 on these big, forgiving CRTs.

Simply put, the Sony HD CRTs are poor test instruments because they can't resolve the incredible level of detail of a fixed-pixel display. That's also why the picture looks so incredibly good!

I just found this forum and have been working my back from the latest posts. I haven't seen what I am about to say posted by anyone else, so will offer my two cents worth.

I have two Sony 34" CRT sets, A 34XS955 and a 34XBR960. These were the last two Sony HD models to use Sony's super fine pitch CRT. If memory serves me, your 34XBR970 uses the standard pitch CRT and so doesn't give as good a picture as do my sets - I never considered it a real XBR set compared to its predecessors..

I rushed to buy my sets when I learned that Sony had discontinued the XBR960 because its picture looked clearly superior to my eyes than any other sets I saw in the stores, including your XBR970. I was hesitant about purchasing a remaining XBR960 online from some New York dealer, so bought my XS955 locally. Once I saw how good it looked in my home I had to rush to buy one of the last remaining XBR960s online to replace my old Sony 36" WEGA. I wish I had had more faith initially because I use the twin picture feature on my XBR960 regularly and miss it on my XS955 (I don't know of any LCD or plasma set that even offers this feature). And I could have originally had two 960s cheaper than either of the sets I actually bought and had free shipping (and no sales tax on my local purchase) as well! And the picture on either of my sets still looks better to me than any LCD or plasma set I see in Best Buy or Circuit City on my infrequent visits to them..

Even though my sets are only 1080i, I don't think my old eyes would ever be able to see the difference between that and 1080p.

I have been thinking of replacing my Philips DVP5960 with the Oppo DV-980H because I mostly watch downloaded AVIs and the like through the USB port and splashing water or other high detail moving scenes cause stuttering through the USB1.1 port, so the USB 2 port of the Oppo is probably all I really need. The news that Oppo supports USB powered hard drives is a big plus, because Philips requires externally powered drives.

I have no extra speakers, so sound quality suffers somewhat with my standard TV speakers, but I don't have hi-fi ears, anyway.

But now I will wait for the 983 and see what the real price will be before making any rash decisions. Whatever I get will probably see me out at my age.

On a 34" CRT, you will not notice the "better" picture quality of the 983 vs the 980.

For those interested in using the anmorphic stretch for 2.35 set-ups...Is there a chance that OPPO can maximise the usage and implementation of the ABT in this player by having an extra one / two HDMI inputs so that this DVDPlayer can also act as an external scaler when coupled with say a BR or HD DVDP? This would make a lot of happy campers in the 2.35 setups without having the need to invest in scalers.

On a 34" CRT, you will not notice the "better" picture quality of the 983 vs the 980.

And you've done this testing already?

On a 34" CRT, you will not notice the "better" picture quality of the 983 vs the 980.
I don't know that it will be unnoticeable, as I've seen differences between the 980H and 981HD on my 32" screen. I do agree that the 983H's benefits will be more noticeable on larger screens.

For those interested in using the anmorphic stretch for 2.35 set-ups...Is there a chance that OPPO can maximise the usage and implementation of the ABT in this player by having an extra one / two HDMI inputs so that this DVDPlayer can also act as an external scaler when coupled with say a BR or HD DVDP? This would make a lot of happy campers in the 2.35 setups without having the need to invest in scalers.

The 983 is not an external scaler.

Yes, we are aware that the 983 is not a scaler but since the Oppo already has the implementation for anamorphic stretch, deinterlacing and scaling, wouldnt it be making this 983 a truly great DVD player if it can also have some basic feature like providing a vertical stretch when coupled with HD signals from BR / HD DVDs? (ala taking a concept cue from a nicely designed Cambridge Azur CP player with state of the art DACs built-in but also has a bonus input for customers to use it as a dedicated DAC).

Just a thought which might propel this "legend" 983 in the making.

For those interested in using the anmorphic stretch for 2.35 set-ups...Is there a chance that OPPO can maximise the usage and implementation of the ABT in this player by having an extra one / two HDMI inputs so that this DVDPlayer can also act as an external scaler when coupled with say a BR or HD DVDP? This would make a lot of happy campers in the 2.35 setups without having the need to invest in scalers.

No external video or audio input support, though internally they have enabled vertical stretching.

Yes, we are aware that the 983 is not a scaler but since the Oppo already has the implementation for anamorphic stretch, deinterlacing and scaling, wouldnt it be making this 983 a truly great DVD player if it can also have some basic feature like providing a vertical stretch when coupled with HD signals from BR / HD DVDs? (ala taking a concept cue from a nicely designed Cambridge Azur CP player with state of the art DACs built-in but also has a bonus input for customers to use it as a dedicated DAC).

Just a thought which might propel this "legend" 983 in the making.

That would just cause wayyy too much controversy with ABT and other companies that produce high priced external scalers.;)
Oppo would essentially have to charge a butt-load for the unit.

Oh ok. Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps a VS feature for future Oppo BR/HD DVD : ) player.

On a 34" CRT, you will not notice the "better" picture quality of the 983 vs the 980.
Depends on the nature of the footage, doesn't it? The 34XBR960's native modes are 480p and 1080i, so all 480i content must be deinterlaced, and the ABT102 in the 983 should do a much better job of deinterlacing odd cadences and video-based material than whatever the 980 uses.

My 40XBR800 (40", 4:3) does not have the SFP tube, so my effective horizontal resolution is limited by the aperture grill to something like 853 columns, though I still get a full 1080i vertically (letterboxed), and the true 1080i signal from my ATSC tuner does look noticeably sharper than any of my SD sources, upconverted or not. I am looking forward to replacing my Oppo 981 with the 983, for the sake of the improved deinterlacing and PAL->NTSC conversion. Sure, if I was only interested in 3:2 film, this would be a fairly pointless upgrade, but such material only makes up a tiny minority of my DVD collection...

Depends on the nature of the footage, doesn't it? The 34XBR960's native modes are 480p and 1080i, so all 480i content must be deinterlaced, and the ABT102 in the 983 should do a much better job of deinterlacing odd cadences and video-based material than whatever the 980 uses.

My 40XBR800 (40", 4:3) does not have the SFP tube, so my effective horizontal resolution is limited by the aperture grill to something like 853 columns, though I still get a full 1080i vertically (letterboxed), and the true 1080i signal from my ATSC tuner does look noticeably sharper than any of my SD sources, upconverted or not. I am looking forward to replacing my Oppo 981 with the 983, for the sake of the improved deinterlacing and PAL->NTSC conversion. Sure, if I was only interested in 3:2 film, this would be a fairly pointless upgrade, but such material only makes up a tiny minority of my DVD collection...

good points :)

Oppo would essentially have to charge a butt-load for the unit.

Perhaps they could offer this as a $2,000 upgrade like Anthem :D

Will the 983 come with an HDMI 1.3a cable? I noticed on previous models they came with an HDMI cable in the box...also, how long are these cables? Thanks!

It appears from this page that BBK, parent company to OPPO Digital, is already making HD DVD players. http://www.stor-age.com/stor-age/2007/0907/495415.shtml In fact, it appears they are the manufacturer of the Toshiba HD-EP30.

Just a guess as I can't read Chinese characters. :)

Dana

Will the 983 come with an HDMI 1.3a cable? I noticed on previous models they came with an HDMI cable in the box...also, how long are these cables? Thanks!

No need for a 1.3 cable. Cables that are included are usually 6 foot long.

Will the 983 come with an HDMI 1.3a cable? I noticed on previous models they came with an HDMI cable in the box...also, how long are these cables? Thanks!

Past cables have been about 6ft.

Why would an SD-DVD player need HDMI 1.3a?

Many threads on cable ratings in the HDMI forum.

-Bill

I have read through many pages and I thank you for all of the information. I have a pioneer elite plasma tv, and a NAD T785 AVR that has HDMI switching. I am going to continue to wait on the sideline for BR and HDDVD. In the meantime I need a new SD player and I have been debating on the Oppo 980 and 983. As far as I can tell, the main difference may be the deinterlacing/scaling. I feel I really dont need this upgraded feature because my Pioneer Elite does a great job at this. I love the fact that DVD-A and SACD can be heard via HDMI cable on the 980. Can anyone tell me if I am correct in my assumptions? If so I will purchase the 980, rather then wait for the 983. Thank you.

Oppo will soon be launching their newest player, the 983. Its a 980 with some very big improvements. )


Pursuant to the original note posted in this string back in September 2007 ("Oppo will SOON be launching their newest player, the 983."), I'm looking forward to learning more about the unit, hopefully in the near future. - I have lots of patience, and I will wait until Oppo announces the release of the 883 later this winter.

I'm particularly interested in the audio features, and in particular, whether the 983 will be able to output multi-channel SACD in DSD format via HDMI as does the 980H. - It's now January 24, four months subsequent to the September announcement. - At this date, would it be too much to ask whether the 983 will have that capability? Because if it doesn't, I will probably get the 980H. (I also have the Toshiba 35A, a Sony MC player, and also expect to get one of the HDMI/upconverting receivers later this year.)


I'm not asking or expecting them to "launch" the player prematurely. - I'm just trying to get some information about it's features and capabilities.

Thanks,
Jim Cate

I would give them a full month for news about the DV-983H, in particular its final specifications.

Pursuant to the original note posted in this string back in September 2007 ("Oppo will SOON be launching their newest player, the 983."), I'm looking forward to learning more about the unit, hopefully in the near future. - I have lots of patience, and I will wait until Oppo announces the release of the 883 later this winter.

I'm particularly interested in the audio features, and in particular, whether the 983 will be able to output multi-channel SACD in DSD format via HDMI as does the 980H. - It's now January 24, four months subsequent to the September announcement. - At this date, would it be too much to ask whether the 983 will have that capability? Because if it doesn't, I will probably get the 980H. (I also have the Toshiba 35A, a Sony MC player, and also expect to get one of the HDMI/upconverting receivers later this year.)

I'm not asking or expecting them to "launch" the player prematurely. - I'm just trying to get some information about it's features and capabilities.

Thanks,
Jim Cate

I was thinking the same thing after Neuro dropped his latest tidbits on the previous page. One could back track through the entire thread to see how many other bread crumbs have been tossed out. But, maybe someone in the "know" could sum up what can be said at this point w/o violating NDAs.

Dana

Pursuant to the original note posted in this string back in September 2007 ("Oppo will SOON be launching their newest player, the 983."), I'm looking forward to learning more about the unit, hopefully in the near future. - I have lots of patience, and I will wait until Oppo announces the release of the 883 later this winter.

I'm particularly interested in the audio features, and in particular, whether the 983 will be able to output multi-channel SACD in DSD format via HDMI as does the 980H. - It's now January 24, four months subsequent to the September announcement. - At this date, would it be too much to ask whether the 983 will have that capability? Because if it doesn't, I will probably get the 980H. (I also have the Toshiba 35A, a Sony MC player, and also expect to get one of the HDMI/upconverting receivers later this year.)


I'm not asking or expecting them to "launch" the player prematurely. - I'm just trying to get some information about it's features and capabilities.

Thanks,
Jim Cate

what is the 883? is this a typo?

typo

I recently had to return my 981 because of DVD reading issues, and oppo recommended that I replace it... but through a few e-mails back and forth I was able to get this info when I asked: "about your upcoming 983 model, and I am thinking I may want to take advantage of the extended audio capabilities of the new model. Or step down to the 980 and save a few dollars."

their reply was:

"The DV-983H will likely have similar audio characteristics to that of the DV-980H. We only recommend the DV-983H for serious videophiles, as this player has been designed with the highest video decoding possible."

Kris Deering at Secrets is really raving about the video quality. But my DH is sort of thinking about an external processor to handle EVRYTHING. (I know we aren't even in the same ballpark price wise). What do y'all think?

I always like having the source do it all, if it can. Cleaner signal.

I recently had to return my 981 because of DVD reading issues, and oppo recommended that I replace it... but through a few e-mails back and forth I was able to get this info when I asked: "about your upcoming 983 model, and I am thinking I may want to take advantage of the extended audio capabilities of the new model. Or step down to the 980 and save a few dollars."

their reply was:

"The DV-983H will likely have similar audio characteristics to that of the DV-980H. We only recommend the DV-983H for serious videophiles, as this player has been designed with the highest video decoding possible."

Oh. Pardon me. Not sure how to take this. Does it mean that us "low brow" folks can't possibly appreciate it?

My guess is that they'll take my money, "serious videophile" or not. ;)

Dana

Kris Deering at Secrets is really raving about the video quality. But my DH is sort of thinking about an external processor to handle EVRYTHING. (I know we aren't even in the same ballpark price wise). What do y'all think?

An external box can do customized resolutions. For example, the common 1366 x 768p. I don't believe the 983 will be able to do this (but I wish it would! :) ). So there's some extra flexibility with an external processor.

I have read through many pages and I thank you for all of the information. I have a pioneer elite plasma tv, and a NAD T785 AVR that has HDMI switching. I am going to continue to wait on the sideline for BR and HDDVD. In the meantime I need a new SD player and I have been debating on the Oppo 980 and 983. As far as I can tell, the main difference may be the deinterlacing/scaling. I feel I really dont need this upgraded feature because my Pioneer Elite does a great job at this. I love the fact that DVD-A and SACD can be heard via HDMI cable on the 980. Can anyone tell me if I am correct in my assumptions? If so I will purchase the 980, rather then wait for the 983. Thank you.
The Pioneer Plasma's have excellent de-interlacing and scaling. Until the 983 is released we won't know all of the answers, but many Kuro owners, including myself, have found the output from the 980 at 480i to produce a better image than the Reon based HD-XA2.

I keep hearing that the Kuro's are great at deinterlacing.... Any comments on the Sony XBR4 in that regards... I think I heard it is off a little on 1080i deinterlacing to 1080p (native rez). But I could easily be mistaken.

Thanks.. I"m seriously waitin on the 983 but could step back tto the 980 or 981.

I have read through many pages and I thank you for all of the information. I have a pioneer elite plasma tv, and a NAD T785 AVR that has HDMI switching. I am going to continue to wait on the sideline for BR and HDDVD. In the meantime I need a new SD player and I have been debating on the Oppo 980 and 983. As far as I can tell, the main difference may be the deinterlacing/scaling. I feel I really dont need this upgraded feature because my Pioneer Elite does a great job at this. I love the fact that DVD-A and SACD can be heard via HDMI cable on the 980. Can anyone tell me if I am correct in my assumptions? If so I will purchase the 980, rather then wait for the 983. Thank you.

I'm in the same boat, in that I have a Pioneer Kuro Elite. I think it's still unknown whether the picture (deinterlacing and scaling) will be better from the 983, or better from the Pio (i.e., sent via 480i from the 980). If I'm not mistaken, other(s) have indicated that the deinterlacing and scaliing from the 983 may be significantly better than from, say, Toshiba's Reon processing in the HDXA2. I'm finding it very difficult to wait, but it's important to me to learn this before deciding on a 980 or 983.

The Pioneer Plasma's have excellent de-interlacing and scaling. Until the 983 is released we won't know all of the answers, but many Kuro owners, including myself, have found the output from the 980 at 480i to produce a better image than the Reon based HD-XA2.

I thought sending the signal 480i would produce a nice picture on the pioneer plasma. So my next question would be if you are sending the signal via 480i, do you need to change the signal to 720 (or higher) everytime you want to listen to SACD through HDMI? I thought I had read that in order to play SACD and DVD-A through the HDMI connection, the signal needs to be set at 720 or higher?

I have the 981 now and am quite happy with it. If the 983 is to produce even better PQ, then I would strongly consider buying it... but, when the time comes that it is relased if the price point mentioned early on in the thread remains "accurate", then what would be the benifits of this vs. purchasing either a Blue-Ray, or HDDVD player.... who knows, there may be an end to the format war around then(stranger things have happened), or even another price drop in hd players?

Thanks in advance. I am glad I found this forum to help get educated and make good decisions with my AV equipment

p.s. holy crap..... sorry for the run on sentence!! Trying to do to many things at once here in the office and post here.

The benefits are that video quality should be superior to those other players.

I was after a 981 but found this thread before buying so I'm waiting for the 983 to be released now. I live in a PAL region so a 981 would have been good but the 983 is supposed to be better :)

Well...looking at this screen shot...I would say the Oppo's can and do hold their own for any upscaling job...http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=983682

My other 2 Oppo's just got here yesterday afternoon...I picked up another 980 and a 970...both refurbished from Oppo directly...along with a couple of their HDMI 3x1 switches for future use for their game systems...the other 980 is going on a new 36" LCD and the 970 is going on an older Mitsubishi 55" CRT via component...When the 983 becomes available..I'll move my first 980 up stairs to the other sons LCD and put the 983 on my 60" Sony XBR2...

Mac

I've been reading all the postings about the DV-983H and I've got a quick question for you. Some of the earlier posts seemed to suggest that the 983H would be able to send upconverted signals through component cables (after downloading the hacked firmware), but more recent postings indicate otherwise. Could someone tell me whether the 983H will be able to upconvert SD DVD's and send a 720p or 1080i signal to my pre-HDMI RPTV using component video cables? I'm trying to decide whether to get the 970HD or the 983H, but if the latter will not upconvert through component, then it will not be the unit for me. Thanks for your help.

Cal68

I've been reading all the postings about the DV-983H and I've got a quick question for you. Some of the earlier posts seemed to suggest that the 983H would be able to send upconverted signals through component cables (after downloading the hacked firmware), but more recent postings indicate otherwise. Could someone tell me whether the 983H will be able to upconvert SD DVD's and send a 720p or 1080i signal to my pre-HDMI RPTV using component video cables? I'm trying to decide whether to get the 970HD or the 983H, but if the latter will not upconvert through component, then it will not be the unit for me. Thanks for your help.

Cal68

The 983 firmware would have to be hacked in order to implement upconversion of CSS encripted dvds via component.
That would mean that someone would have to be able to hack it after it is released. It is very doubtful that this will happen because is was nevr able to be done on the 980 unit. If I were you, I'd go ahead and get the 970 if the mentioned feature is what you need.

Thanks Smarty-Pants. What you say makes a lot of sense. I will go ahead and get the 970H from Oppo.

Cal68

Thanks Smarty-Pants. What you say makes a lot of sense. I will go ahead and get the 970H from Oppo.

Cal68

You are very welcome. I used to own a 970 for the same reasons you are buying and loved it. I believe you should enjoy it very much.:)

I need to buy 2 more Oppo players. I currently own a 970. I would really appreciate any opinions on what player for what display. I need:

One player attached to an old 32" JVC via s-video but needs to do DVD-A and SACD.
(I'm thinking 980 for this one)
One player attached to a Mits HD1000 via component - has to be component.
(I'm thinking the 970 I already own)
One player attached to a Mits HC3000 via HDMI.
(This one I'm not sure whether I get a 980 or wait for a 983)

Again any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Brad

I need to buy 2 more Oppo players. I currently own a 970. I would really appreciate any opinions on what player for what display. I need:

One player attached to an old 32" JVC via s-video but needs to do DVD-A and SACD.
(I'm thinking 980 for this one)
One player attached to a Mits HD1000 via component - has to be component.
(I'm thinking the 970 I already own)
One player attached to a Mits HC3000 via HDMI.
(This one I'm not sure whether I get a 980 or wait for a 983)

Again any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Brad

Sounds like you've got it nailed down pretty good Brad. I think the 983 would serve you well on the HC3000. However, there will only be a small improvemnet over the 980, but the price difference will be more significant. It will be a call that you're going to have to make. There will be planty of people buying them the second they go on sale, so maybe wait to hear what others have to say about real world results and comparisons.

Thanks! I think I buy a 980 and hold off for a 983 or at least wait to decide on the second one until the 983 is available.

Thanks!

Brad

The Pioneer Plasma's have excellent de-interlacing and scaling. Until the 983 is released we won't know all of the answers, but many Kuro owners, including myself, have found the output from the 980 at 480i to produce a better image than the Reon based HD-XA2.

Whoa!! That's very interesting! I'd like to read about comparisons, would you happen to have a link to those discussions? Thanks!

This happened today.

OPPO Service <service@oppodigital.com> Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 1:35 PM
To: Dilip

Dilip,
Video performance will be a generational leap over that of the DV-981HD. This player has been designed from the ground up for high quality video de-interlacing and scaling.
Audio performance will be on part with the DV-980H.
Best Regards,
Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119

-----Original Message-----
From: Dilip
Sent: Fri 1/25/2008 10:34 AM
To: OPPO Service
Subject: Re: Mjpeg Support
Can you provide me some specs on that..
Or at least is it going to be better than the 981 ?
So that I might as well wait.!

On Jan 25, 2008 1:29 PM, OPPO Service <service@oppodigital.com> wrote:
> Dilip,
>
> Unfortunately we do not support most video camera AVI formats.
>
> We are working on a new DVD player for release in the coming months. It
> will be designed for high-class audio and video performance.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Customer Service
> OPPO Digital, Inc.
> 2629B Terminal Blvd.
> Mountain View, CA 94043
> Service@oppodigital.com
> Tel: 650-961-1118
> Fax: 650-961-1119
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dilip
> Sent: Fri 1/25/2008 9:33 AM
> To: OPPO Service
> Subject: Mjpeg Support
>
> Does any of your DVD players play mjpeg based *.AVI files.
> My camera records video in motion jpeg mode, basically it creates .AVI files.
> Please let me know if you can include this as a feature for this player.
>
> Also are you planning a new model soon ?
> I dont mind waiting a month if u are coming with a new model soon
>
> thanks
> Dilip
>
>

I am seriously interested in a player which does most of following.
- upscaling
- excellent picture quality
- should atleast play 99 out of 100 divx/xvid thrown at it with subtitle support
- should have an excellent remote, nice menus
- should not cause those static shocks in winter season
- should have usb based ntfs support including multiple partitions on a usb hdd
- should simulcast on composite,component and hdmi
- should play mp3/wma

some of the important things mentioned above can be done by the PS3, so why shouldnt i simply buy PS3?
Dont u think 983 will a waste of money.

- it wont have a browser
- no wireless g
- no HD divx
- no wmv
- no blu ray (hd-dvd is dead, everyone has accepted it)
- no games

All i am saying to oppo is do the branding thing right now, but do it with a shocker price of $200. $300 or $350 is almost near to the $400 price of a 40gb PS3.......which can be upgraded via software everyday if they wanted.

The gentleman Neuromancer has done something great : he has selflessly shared a lot of information even when so many tried to piss him off. Sir you are doing exceptional work. Very less people like u on this tiny earth.

But please do share your thoughts on ps3 v/s 983 upscaling.
Thats going to be the most deciding factor I think for most of the consumers out there.

And remember OPPO is now known to everyone; once its on amazon bestselling list, you have crossed 98% of the bridge.
OPPO is known to everyone. Sell the 983 at a price which can be afforded by everyone.

Whoa!! That's very interesting! I'd like to read about comparisons, would you happen to have a link to those discussions? Thanks!
Here is a link to a poll (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=952854) I did with fairly limited participation. I welcome anybody to add a post to the thread to get it back on top.

Here are a few other links from various threads in the Kuro owners and settings threads in the flat panel plasma forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12496575#post12496575

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12439649&postcount=10014

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12288288&postcount=9430

To be honest, I think that there will be personal preferences between the the OPPO 480i and the HD-XA2. The first time I compared the XA2 had a noticeably more refined image. After ISF calibration, I did a more objective comparison with test discs and the TV's processing beat the XA2. This is looking at things like resolution patterns and the non-torture HQV tests. With very good film based material I may even have a slight subjective preference for the HD-XA2. However, after considering the other advantages of OPPO I decided to make it my primary player. The OPPO is much faster, provides more display options in the TV and player, is region-free and works properly with all menus in 1080p/72fps 3:3 pulldown PureCinema mode. (The XA2 does not properly display many DVD menus in 1080p/24fps mode even with the latest firmware.) I'm not saying that everybody will like the 480i image more than the XA2 upscaled image. You have to see for yourself.

That being said, I will be all eyes and ears when the OPPO 983 reviews come out.

We are working on a new DVD player for release in the [B][U][U]coming months.

Coming months = February and March

Neuromancer, do you think you'll be able to post a comparison of your thoughts between the PS3 and 983H tis weekend?

- it wont have a browser
- no wireless g
- no HD divx
- no wmv
- no blu ray (hd-dvd is dead, everyone has accepted it)
- no games

All i am saying to oppo is do the branding thing right now, but do it with a shocker price of $200. $300 or $350 is almost near to the $400 price of a 40gb PS3.......which can be upgraded via software everyday if they wanted.


I'll take your last first..the Oppo usually doesn't need to be upgraded everyday like the PS3 does...but is easy enough to do so if needed..

So what if it doesn't have a browser...it isn't designed to have one...It is a stand alone high end DVD player...Interactive features aren't utilized by the majority of folks any ways..

DIVX..WMV..could be added.....if they wanted too..since they aren't retailing them yet...

No BR...and HD-DVD is dead...It's not a BR player...and who said HD-DVD is dead...I don't think there's been any formal announcement from Toshiba on this that I have heard of...Just because some keep saying it is the reality..doesn't make it so...

I really hope they will make a BR player or HD-DVD player...because since they are a small company committed to building a excellent product I know it will be a damn fine player when it is released..and we won't be subjected to having to download firm ware patch after firm ware patch to make them usable..In other words they test the product better than Sony...prior to releasing them...

If you want a game box...buy the game box...but for many folks...they want a stand alone player to do excellent video & audio...something all of the Oppos do...which is something the PS3 doesn't do as well...nor does it up convert SD movies as well either..on the sets I have seen them on..It does play BR movies & BR games well...as it should...since this is it's intended purpose.

The expected cost while being higher than the current models is still cheaper than the other high end solutions available utilizing the chip sets the 983 is going to have from what I have been able to find out...and for those of us who aren't in any hurry to go out and dump of our collections of SD movies...and still want the absolute best picture and superb audio in a stand alone player...the 983 sounds to fit the bill...



Mac

Neuromancer, do you think you'll be able to post a comparison of your thoughts between the PS3 and 983H tis weekend?

Nothing like putting the pressure on, eh?

We've already read about a review here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12893402#post12893402 that indicates that the PS3 does not upconvert standard dev DVDs as well as the OPPO 981. And the 983 is being designed to outperform the video side of the 981.

You can draw your own conclusion.

Dana

It appears from this page that BBK, parent company to OPPO Digital, is already making HD DVD players. http://www.stor-age.com/stor-age/2007/0907/495415.shtml In fact, it appears they are the manufacturer of the Toshiba HD-EP30.

Just a guess as I can't read Chinese characters. :)

Dana
That seems logical as HD DVD is an amped up SD DVD if I'm not mistaken. I'd welcome a HD DVD player from Oppo myself. I have a 981HD and love it, but I recently bought a Tosh A30 and am using that as my HD/SD DVD player right now. I like the A30, but if Oppo came out with a HD or Blu player I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. Reliability, versatility, ease of use, and advanced tech features at a great price is what makes Oppo so appealing to many. The 981HD was great at both SD DVD and CD playback at a price much less than the retail of the HDM players IMHO. I honestly hope that they jump into the fray and shake the HD market up a bit.:cool:

Coming months = February and March

Perfect timing. We can pay our credit card bill with the income tax refund coming along in May. After all, the intent is for us to spend it to help the economy. OPPO has done it again! ;)

It's now official. Buying an OPPO will be patriotic. http://money.excite.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_rt_top.jsp?news_id=ap-d8udgsk80&

Dana

Neuromancer, do you think you'll be able to post a comparison of your thoughts between the PS3 and 983H tis weekend?

We'll see how my weekend goes. Today I have plans for the entire day. If I find time on Sunday, I will at least do some basic AB testing just to see what visual differences I can see in real world contents. I will likely not get around to some "scientific" testing to see what the best performer is, but I can at least try to play several different contents and tell you what differences I saw between the VP50, Reon (Inegra 9.8), DV-983H and the PS3.

I ran one animation the other day (Azumanga Daioh) and noticed that the DV-983H did not have as many interlacing errors, but the PS3 seemed to "draw" in missing lines of resolution. So instead of seeing a black line with jagged edges (DV-983H), the lines were very clean and distinct.

I have read all the postings and I understand that possibly between Feb and March or April, Oppo will release the 983. With that said, is the unit still undergoing beta testing / trials or has Oppo gone into production and is now building its inventory to sell later (whenever that is)?

I have read all the postings and I understand that possibly between Feb and March or April, Oppo will release the 983. With that said, is the unit still undergoing beta testing / trials or has Oppo gone into production and is now building its inventory to sell later (whenever that is)?

The 983 in not finalized yet.

I have read all the postings and I understand that possibly between Feb and March or April, Oppo will release the 983. With that said, is the unit still undergoing beta testing / trials or has Oppo gone into production and is now building its inventory to sell later (whenever that is)?

No production of the final units have been made. The hardware is pretty much set; the firmware will likely be worked on all the way up to release date.

The 983 in not finalized yet.

Is DSD over HDMI part of the feature set? Earlier posts indicated at that time that it was yet undecided.

Is DSD over HDMI part of the feature set? Earlier posts indicated at that time that it was yet undecided.

I think it is still undecided... maybe Neuromancer can give more info if he can.

We'll see how my weekend goes. Today I have plans for the entire day. If I find time on Sunday, I will at least do some basic AB testing just to see what visual differences I can see in real world contents. I will likely not get around to some "scientific" testing to see what the best performer is, but I can at least try to play several different contents and tell you what differences I saw between the VP50, Reon (Inegra 9.8), DV-983H and the PS3.

I ran one animation the other day (Azumanga Daioh) and noticed that the DV-983H did not have as many interlacing errors, but the PS3 seemed to "draw" in missing lines of resolution. So instead of seeing a black line with jagged edges (DV-983H), the lines were very clean and distinct.

How does the 983 subjectively compare to the PS3 for film-based DVDs? Does one unit appear sharper, or more detailed, or smoother, or cleaner than the other, etc.?

Is DSD over HDMI part of the feature set? Earlier posts indicated at that time that it was yet undecided.

Can't confirm. NDA prohibits this. Like I said many times in the past, many of the features of the unit can't be confirmed until the product has been officially announced.

How does the 983 subjectively compare to the PS3 for film-based DVDs? Does one unit appear sharper, or more detailed, or smoother, or cleaner than the other, etc.?

I have only watched a couple of minutes of The Fifth Element but could not see any real difference between the two. I have not gone back and watched several sequences which I know to contain errors (and see if any of them correct them). That is penciled in for this evening, when it is dark enough in my entertainment room to have proper video levels.

Don't forget the Toshiba A30 for $199 and A35 for $299, both with ABT.

They definitely do NOT use an ABT deinterlacer. More specifically, the deinterlacer they use is actually quite crap. It fails tons of tests, making the gen3 HD DVD players pretty poor upscalers (unless you have a 1080i CRT, or can guarantee your TV properly deinterlaces 1080i).

Really unfortunate they couldn't implement 1080p24. I have few PAL DVD's, so I'm finding it difficult to justify a purchase of this unit. I think I'll go with the 980 instead.


This really could have been the ultimate universal.

1080p/24Hz could be introduced as a software solution, but this will cause studdering errors (ie. you are completely defeating the reason for 24Hz support) when the cadence changes.

The VP30/50 use a separate hardware clock for 24Hz support, and this chip is too expensive for implementation in the DV-983H at its current price point.

1080p/24Hz could be introduced as a software solution, but this will cause studdering errors (ie. you are completely defeating the reason for 24Hz support) when the cadence changes.

The VP30/50 use a separate hardware clock for 24Hz support, and this chip is too expensive for implementation in the DV-983H at its current price point.

A bone head move IMO... they should have planned for it from the begining. This is my biggest criticism of the 983. I understand that it could be introduced, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

They definitely do NOT use an ABT deinterlacer. More specifically, the deinterlacer they use is actually quite crap. It fails tons of tests, making the gen3 HD DVD players pretty poor upscalers (unless you have a 1080i CRT, or can guarantee your TV properly deinterlaces 1080i).


Yes but if you have a tv that supports 1080p/24 or has a good deinterlacer then they do well as an upconverter.
The A20/A30/A35 use the ABT chip to upconvert and they support 1080p/24.

1080p/24Hz could be introduced as a software solution, but this will cause studdering errors (ie. you are completely defeating the reason for 24Hz support) when the cadence changes.

The VP30/50 use a separate hardware clock for 24Hz support, and this chip is too expensive for implementation in the DV-983H at its current price point.

Understood. I just have a bad feeling this may be Oppo's last attempt at a top-tier player. If that is the case, we may never see an 'affordable' universal that support 24Hz.

Not sure about others, but I'd certainly be willing to pay extra for it.

Yes but if you have a tv that supports 1080p/24 or has a good deinterlacer then they do well as an upconverter.


The problem is that no TV exists that actually cadence checks for film, deinterlaces, and displays it at a multiple of 24p.

The current 72 and 96Hz TV's only use their non-60Hz refresh mode when receiving 24Hz output. 120Hz TV's simply multiply the incoming refresh rate (either 2:2 or 5:5).


The A20/A30/A35 use the ABT chip to upconvert and they support 1080p/24.

They are doing it in software (similar to what Neuromancer is mentioning as a possibility for this player). That however, isn't actually part of the ABT chipset. And unfortunately, it has problems.

Understood. I just have a bad feeling this may be Oppo's last attempt at a top-tier player. If that is the case, we may never see an 'affordable' universal that support 24Hz.

There is always a universal Blu-Ray or HD DVD player they can introduce into the market.

There is always a universal Blu-Ray or HD DVD player they can introduce into the market.

Well, I get that feeling that wouldn't be quite the same level of affordability :p



Though the prospect is interesting. A true universal, that plays CD, DVD, SACD, DVD-A, BD, and HD DVD? I wouldn't mind that. Granted, you can dump the HD DVD if it will save some money :D

I have only watched a couple of minutes of The Fifth Element but could not see any real difference between the two. I have not gone back and watched several sequences which I know to contain errors (and see if any of them correct them). That is penciled in for this evening, when it is dark enough in my entertainment room to have proper video levels.

Looking forward to more feedback. On a related note, is the 980 also on par with the PS3 and 983 on film based on your comparisons (if you've compared with the 980)?

no 24hz output for film based source after all? Isn't that what everybody wanted in this player?

no 24hz output for film based source after all? Isn't that what everybody wanted in this player?

:( Certainly some of us.


Other than lacking that (and the types of noise reduction HQV players have?), it should be amongst the elite in terms of deinterlacing/scaling performance.


For people that don't need 24hz output, this thing will be an amazing bargain. I have to admit though for me personally, I have that disappointed feeling of 'they were so close to near-perfection'. I can understand that few people have 24hz compatible TV's, but isn't that kind of Oppo's audience? The hardcore enthusiast? Who else shops from an online-only electronics manufacturer, and buys a $400+ DVD player?


I can only assume they did some level of market analysis, and decided that even amongst the hardcore ... the market just wasn't there to warrant the cost. Maybe they'll do an upgraded one next year? The market should definitely be bigger then. Most new 1080p TV's support 24hz input.

I don't understand what the beef is about the 24hz...I mean from a practicle stand point ...I would assume that for the purest movie buffs it would matter most..but..for the general populace I don't see what's wrong with what they are trying to accomplish with the player as it is...Especially if they can do this thru software..and get it to work properly...for the amount they are going to charge for it...

Who else shops from an online-only electronics manufacturer, and buys a $400+ DVD player?


Well...I really don't consider myself a hard core enthusiast...but a working class stiff that looks for the best bang for the buck...So far..these Oppo's have impressed the hell out of me for being just that...

Mac

Well...I really don't consider myself a hard core enthusiast...but a working class stiff that looks for the best bang for the buck...So far..these Oppo's have impressed the hell out of me for being just that...

Mac

Maybe I should have used a better term. When I said hardcore enthusiast, I didn't meant for that to only include audio/videophiles.

I mean people that also seriously research products to find the best bang for the buck ... which means you ARE looking at A/V quality to a certain extent, you just aren't necessarily ready to drop crazy money on the high end stuff.


Basically, someone that ... I don't know, posts at AVS :p In reality, you are certainly not amongst the majority of DVD purchasers out there :)

Looking forward to more feedback. On a related note, is the 980 also on par with the PS3 and 983 on film based on your comparisons (if you've compared with the 980)?

The DV-980H comes very close to the performance of the PS3 and the DV-983H. The only disadvantage is that you will notice more transitional blips, slightly more aliasing and moire artifacting.

This post is going to ramble, have no specific references to timestamps, test equipment, and anything else professional. This is a simple writeup to appease some curious minds:

So I spent a little time with both players tonight. I can say that the difference in film based media is almost identical when using The Fifth Element. I ran through a couple of sequences I know like the back of my hand and jotted down visual errors, or lack thereof, that I witnessed. At my standard seating distance the difference between the two players is marginal at best, with neither having a clear edge over another. The only real difference I perceived was slightly more ringing with the PS3, and some moire artifacting on fine details like ears and cadence blips before transitions.

The contents which showed the most difference were animations and video contents. I have not seen anything match the performance of the PS3 in terms of decoding, de-interlacing, and scaling animations. I ran through a couple of animations and was astonished that many of the errors which I have grown used to (blipping around subtitles and mouths, random aliasing and interlacing) were not only virtually gone, but lines seemed to have been redrawn with hidden lines of resolution. The disadvantage is that you will notice more transitional interlacing errors (which are incredibly quick). The DV-983H was identical with my previous setup (DV-980H and VP50).

For video contents, such as music videos, the performance of the PS3 and the DV-983H were identical until I forced the DV-983H into Video mode. With Video mode enabled moire, aliasing and interlacing artifacts were greatly reduced.

Summation:
Film = Tie (more testing required)
Animation = PS3
Video = DV-983H

no 24hz output for film based source after all? Isn't that what everybody wanted in this player?

That is what a lot of people wanted in the solution. People also want the solution to be affordable as well. OPPO took into consideration the price versus performance ratio and built accordingly.

I can only assume they did some level of market analysis, and decided that even amongst the hardcore ... the market just wasn't there to warrant the cost.

Dedicated DVD players are not what they used to be. Blame the price/performance push Toshiba has done with their HD DVD players. This has forced everyone else to either compete, or produce products which are only aimed at the elite (seriously, Denon and Marantz, I like you, but do we need a BD player that is $2K and isn't even profile 1.1 compliant?).

The demand for dedicated DVD players is declining. So either OPPO goes uber-rich, or they produce a product which is a nice middle ground between enthusiast and hardcore.

Summation:
Film = Tie (more testing required)
Animation = PS3
Video = DV-983H
I'm surprised Film was a tie in your estimation. In my setup the Reon clearly produced a better picture than the PS3. For example, with the PS3, facial features looked playdough-like, whereas with the Reon facial features looked more natural and exhibited finer detail. If this remains true, I would not expect the 983 to outperform a Toshiba XA2 in my HT. (However, I have not compared the PS3's SD performance since their firmware drop containing the upscaling improvements. They may have quietly improved it with subsequent releases. My ultimate hope is Toshiba's impressive CES demonstration of the video capabilities of the cell processor will competitively motivate Sony to provide a comparable solution on the PS3.)

Summation:
Film = Tie (more testing required)
Animation = PS3
Video = DV-983H

Wow. I didn't realize the PS3 was that good a dvd player!

Slightly OT: by disabling the upconversion option, can the PS3 send 480i over HDMI to a Pioneer Kuro? ... (because I heard the Kuros have a pretty good built-in scaler/deinterlacer)

This post is going to ramble, have no specific references to timestamps, test equipment, and anything else professional. This is a simple writeup to appease some curious minds:

So I spent a little time with both players tonight. I can say that the difference in film based media is almost identical when using The Fifth Element. I ran through a couple of sequences I know like the back of my hand and jotted down visual errors, or lack thereof, that I witnessed. At my standard seating distance the difference between the two players is marginal at best, with neither having a clear edge over another. The only real difference I perceived was slightly more ringing with the PS3, and some moire artifacting on fine details like ears and cadence blips before transitions.

The contents which showed the most difference were animations and video contents. I have not seen anything match the performance of the PS3 in terms of decoding, de-interlacing, and scaling animations. I ran through a couple of animations and was astonished that many of the errors which I have grown used to (blipping around subtitles and mouths, random aliasing and interlacing) were not only virtually gone, but lines seemed to have been redrawn with hidden lines of resolution. The disadvantage is that you will notice more transitional interlacing errors (which are incredibly quick). The DV-983H was identical with my previous setup (DV-980H and VP50).

For video contents, such as music videos, the performance of the PS3 and the DV-983H were identical until I forced the DV-983H into Video mode. With Video mode enabled moire, aliasing and interlacing artifacts were greatly reduced.

Summation:
Film = Tie (more testing required)
Animation = PS3
Video = DV-983H

Thanks, great write up! Now, in all seriousness.. please convince me why I should get a 983H. I'm not being a smart a$$, and I know it's not your responsibility to do so, but I really need some motivation to get one. All of my hi-rez audio bases are covered. I was going to get a 983H to replace my Denon 3910. I'm hard core in terms of expecting the best video performance, but where will I see an improvement? I watch 90% Hollywood movies, 10% concert DVDs. No animation or Divx-type stuff.


Wow. I didn't realize the PS3 was that good a dvd player!

Slightly OT: by disabling the upconversion option, can the PS3 send 480i over HDMI to a Pioneer Kuro? ... (because I heard the Kuros have a pretty good built-in scaler/deinterlacer)

No 480i over HDMI from the PS3.

The lack of multi-region for standard def DVD an no DVD-A/SACD support mean the PS3 is out for me.

It's a pity MS care so little about DVD playback on the 360 to be honest, then again I don't really like watching films with a hair dryer on in the corner ;)

The multi-region aspect of the OPPOs was what caught my eye in the first place. Three OPPO's later I am using the 981 with great satisfaction.

Kris Deering at Secrets rated the PS3 a 61 for SD DVD playback. His comments are not encouraging. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=133#SonyPlayStation%203%20(HDMI)

As a standard DVD player, however, the PS3 may represent one of the worst progressive scan players I have ever tested. Surprising, considering its BD performance.

The PS3 is the only game console to feature an HDMI output to date. Given this feature, I was fully expecting to see support for upconversion of standard DVD to high definition resolutions like most HDMI-based DVD players. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen here. The PS3 only outputs 480p for DVD playback. Personally I would have rather have seen 480i as the only DVD output resolution given how bad this player does with its de-interlacing.

As most of us know, he rated the OPPO 981 a 96 (out of 100) on the same Benchmark tests. And he apparently thinks the 983 is even better.

Hmm. :confused:

Dana

The multi-region aspect of the OPPOs was what caught my eye in the first place. Three OPPO's later I am using the 981 with great satisfaction.

Kris Deering at Secrets rated the PS3 a 61 for SD DVD playback. His comments are not encouraging. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=133#SonyPlayStation%203%20(HDMI)


That article is old though. The quote even mentions it being the only console with an HDMI output but the 360 with HDMI has been out for a good while now so I guess Sony have made vast improvements. He should retest it I think :)

The lack of multi-region for standard def DVD an no DVD-A/SACD support mean the PS3 is out for me.

The 60GB and 80GB have SACD support via HDMI.

The multi-region aspect of the OPPOs was what caught my eye in the first place. Three OPPO's later I am using the 981 with great satisfaction.

Kris Deering at Secrets rated the PS3 a 61 for SD DVD playback. His comments are not encouraging. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=133#SonyPlayStation%203%20(HDMI)



As most of us know, he rated the OPPO 981 a 96 (out of 100) on the same Benchmark tests. And he apparently thinks the 983 is even better.

Hmm. :confused:

Dana

As mentioned above, that article was done with very old firmware for the PS3. As of v1.80, performance is more than respectable!

Regarding the 983H... can we assume that we'll get several options to deal with 4x3 material? Zooming of non-anamorphic letterbox material would be fantastic.

Maybe I should have used a better term. When I said hardcore enthusiast, I didn't meant for that to only include audio/videophiles.

I mean people that also seriously research products to find the best bang for the buck ... which means you ARE looking at A/V quality to a certain extent, you just aren't necessarily ready to drop crazy money on the high end stuff.


Basically, someone that ... I don't know, posts at AVS :p In reality, you are certainly not amongst the majority of DVD purchasers out there :)


Ahhhhhh...I see...The I consider myself in good company then...;)

Mac

The DV-980H comes very close to the performance of the PS3 and the DV-983H. The only disadvantage is that you will notice more transitional blips, slightly more aliasing and moire artifacting.

Thanks for your feedback.

A very important thing when considering the purchase of the Oppo 983 is that the Anchor Bay upscaler gives you an amazing film-like quality.

Seriously, if your main viewing are film based DVDs, this is the perfect choice.

Kris Deering gave the Secrets Best of 2007 Award to the 983 for SD DVD video players and to the PS3 for Blu-ray players. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/features/best-of-awards/secrets-best-of-2007-product-awards.html Maybe he revisited the PS3 as a SD DVD player in his review of its Blu-ray performance. Time will tell.

Nonetheless, I find Neuromancer's candid comments both refreshing - and disappointing. The 983 is to be OPPO's swan song in the SD DVD field. But, if it has no redeeming qualities that set it apart from the competition let alone its predecessors, why bother?

Dana

A very important thing when considering the purchase of the Oppo 983 is that the Anchor Bay upscaler gives you an amazing film-like quality.

Seriously, if your main viewing are film based DVDs, this is the perfect choice.

Not according to Neuromancer.

Dana

The 983 is to be OPPO's swan song in the SD DVD field.

Is it....? Has the pricing of either HD format come down enough for a small company to sell a HD player profitably? Has the licensing of either HD type player decreased so that Oppo can enter into the playing field at the prices they are now...and still retain all aspects they have included with their SD players ?

If they were to build another SD player...what would they have to do to make them better than what the 983 is going to do...and what do you think the cost of them would be ? I expect to see a HD player out next at some time..but...let's discuss what more can they offer and keep it under $499 MSRP that could make every one happy with it? Since neither HD format is really main stream yet and won't be until the HD format is unified..and SD movies are still out selling both HD formats combined..by the sheer number of SD movies sold..SD disc will be around for many years....So...given the prospects of this reality...How far can Oppo go with a SD player...

Mac

I'm surprised Film was a tie in your estimation. In my setup the Reon clearly produced a better picture than the PS3. For example, with the PS3, facial features looked playdough-like, whereas with the Reon facial features looked more natural and exhibited finer detail. If this remains true, I would not expect the 983 to outperform a Toshiba XA2 in my HT. (However, I have not compared the PS3's SD performance since their firmware drop containing the upscaling improvements. They may have quietly improved it with subsequent releases. My ultimate hope is Toshiba's impressive CES demonstration of the video capabilities of the cell processor will competitively motivate Sony to provide a comparable solution on the PS3.)

I do agree with you regarding the Reon. At one time I had the PS3 and XA2 and the XA2 looked more natural and filmlike. Maybe the Reon is better than ABT....on film anyway.

My authority for the "Swan Song' characterization is Neuromancer himself. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11572214#post11572214

I affectionately call it the "Swan Song" since it should be the last, great, universal DVD player on the market.

His comments were back on page 1 of this thread dated 09-09-07. A lot has happened in the marketplace since then. My sense is that his views have since changed but he can speak for himself.

I fear the 983 will get the OBE award. Overcome By Events.

Dana

Nonetheless, I find Neuromancer's candid comments both refreshing - and disappointing. The 983 is to be OPPO's swan song in the SD DVD field. But, if it has no redeeming qualities that set it apart from the competition let alone its predecessors, why bother?

DanaYou can say the same thing about Oppo's previous/current players. They aren't the only manufacturer to use the Mediatek or Faroudja video chips. Why is Oppo successful? The answer isn't going to change wrt the 983 (hopefully). Also, I'm sure Oppo is not expecting the same volume of sales with the 983 vs its less expensive models.

larry

Larry / Dana,
I think that because Oppo has been so successful to this point, that a lot of peolple are hoping/expecting a miracle in the 983 model. Oppo has done so well with their previous models, that it is only natural to expect things to keep getting better. The thing is though, sd dvd quality has plateaued, and Oppo is in the same boat as other manufacturers. You are right. The answer is not going to change. Oppo will make a high quality universal sd player just as they have done before. The picture produced will be better than the 980, but for those who don't want to spend the money for such marginal improvements, then the 980/981 may be better for them. The 983 WILL be set apart from the other maufacturers products, just like Oppo's other players. Most of the differences will be small, but that is usually what makes the difference for a lot of people. I mean, how many people bought the 980 for the simple reasons of being a high quality true universal player that can output 480i via HDMI?
So the improvements and differences will be small, and that may matter to enough people for Oppo to sell quite a few of the 983s. It won't be their best selling player, but it will be their best player.

(However, I have not compared the PS3's SD performance since their firmware drop containing the upscaling improvements. They may have quietly improved it with subsequent releases.)

I would recommend trying the PS3 again if you have not used it since the Spring 1.80 Firmware update. I was none too impressed with PS3 with the initial release, but the newer release at least does not show any additional errors which were not also present on the DV-983H and the DV-980H with a VP50.

My primary goal last night was to see if there was any obvious errors which exhibited on one piece of equipment and not another. There really were none. Also I should note that I only ran through a couple of tests over a period of two hours. This is far from a final analysis, just my initial impressions.

Thanks, great write up! Now, in all seriousness.. please convince me why I should get a 983H.

It is much more plug and play than a PS3, it requires less energy to use (go green), it has SACD and DVD-Audio support, it has multi-channel analog outputs for use on older receivers, and it has a VFD so you know where you are in the movie without displaying an overlay on your film.

The DV-983H is also dedicated for DVD/CD/DVD-Audio/SACD playback. This means that issues are more likely to be addressed, and in a timely manner, over that of the PS3, which is primarily a gaming machine.

You can make the player region free, you can do PAL to NTSC conversions.

I love the PS3 and use it as my main media center (with Tversity as a decoding backbone) but I would never use it as a dedicated DVD player.

Thanks for your feedback.

I'll try to do some more indepth testing of the DV-980H, DV-983H, PS3, and Reon later this week. I just happened to find some time yesterday and did some quick testing to see if there were not any obvious differences between my current DVD players.

I'll try to do some more indepth testing of the DV-980H, DV-983H, PS3, and Reon later this week. I just happened to find some time yesterday and did some quick testing to see if there were not any obvious differences between my current DVD players.

That would be great!

Also, I'm sure Oppo is not expecting the same volume of sales with the 983 vs its less expensive models.

larry

At $350 they would be insane to think otherwise. I really see the DV-983H as a player designed to increase the reputation of OPPO. It don't expect it to sell very well, especially with the price of BD and HD DVD players being the way they are.

However, it will be a nice little set piece to set up OPPO as one of the premiere DVD manufacturers that should be watched. For OPPO, who is building their brand, something like the DV-983H is a crucial component to differentiating themselves from other manufacturers.

Kris Deering at Secrets rated the PS3 a 61 for SD DVD playback. His comments are not encouraging.

As most of us know, he rated the OPPO 981 a 96 (out of 100) on the same Benchmark tests. And he apparently thinks the 983 is even better.

His review predates the 1.80 Firmware which introduced DVD upscaling. I previously tried the PS3 (as well as the Xbox 360) and were horrified with the results. However, the current firmware (2.10) is pretty damned good from an initial "play and watch" standpoint.

Also note: I am one man. My personal preference and setup conditions may not be the ideal for AB comparisons.

Regarding the 983H... can we assume that we'll get several options to deal with 4x3 material? Zooming of non-anamorphic letterbox material would be fantastic.

I can safely say that the 4:3 pillarboxing looks fantastic and does not introduce the same loss of resolution as the previous OPPO players (the ABT is doing the pillarboxing, rather than the MTK solution).

You have all of the standard Zoom modes of the current players, plus an additional Anamorphic Stretch (this is not AR specific, they just used a stretch mode which is mathematically common for Anamorphic 2:35:1 films) as well as some underscanning modes.

For all of you who are upset over my findings:

THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL PRODUCT

That is, the firmware and hardware I am using for testing is not the final product that will ship from OPPO Digital. There is always potential that the problems I see while testing, or quality differences that should be in the product but are not, could be fixed before the product is officially released.

All comments I am making on the product are purely off the record, on the QT, and not the final specifications.

For all of you who are upset over my findings:

THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL PRODUCT

That is, the firmware and hardware I am using for testing is not the final product that will ship from OPPO Digital. There is always potential that the problems I see while testing, or quality differences that should be in the product but are not, could be fixed before the product is officially released.

All comments I am making on the product are purely off the record, on the QT, and not the final specifications.

I for 1 am very appreciative of the testing and evaluating of these players...I dare say without such effort applied by you and the other Beta Testers we most likely wouldn't have received such a good product...I know it takes a lot of time to do any decent evaluation of any product..so I know what effort you and the others are putting out...

Keep up the Good work..and Thank You...

Mac

For all of you who are upset over my findings:

THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL PRODUCT

That is, the firmware and hardware I am using for testing is not the final product that will ship from OPPO Digital. There is always potential that the problems I see while testing, or quality differences that should be in the product but are not, could be fixed before the product is officially released.

All comments I am making on the product are purely off the record, on the QT, and not the final specifications.


N, your posts are always much appreciated by me. And with the thread topping 1,200 posts about a product that's NOT EVEN ON THE MARKET YET, I think maybe some people need to chill the hell out.

This post is going to ramble, have no specific references to timestamps, test equipment, and anything else professional. This is a simple writeup to appease some curious minds:

Thanks very much for the comparison, Neuromancer!

I don't suppose you have any mixed footage on hand (i.e., video captions overlayed on film, or film chromakeyed onto a video background)? I'd be very interested in hearing how well the 983 handles such material.

Also, would the NDA prohibit you from revealing whether the 983's high-quality standards conversion is limited to the HDMI output, as it is on the 981?

Thanks again!

So what can the USB be used for?

Any chance I can plug a hard drive into it for mass uncompressed music storage.

For all of you who are upset over my findings:

THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL PRODUCT

That is, the firmware and hardware I am using for testing is not the final product that will ship from OPPO Digital. There is always potential that the problems I see while testing, or quality differences that should be in the product but are not, could be fixed before the product is officially released.

All comments I am making on the product are purely off the record, on the QT, and not the final specifications.

Thank you for your evaluation! I, too, was a bit surprised by your findings. I hope you do more "preliminary comparisons" and maybe over at your local watering hole, you could let the Oppo folks know of your QT results. ;)

XA2 in the near future...Hmmm...

Any chance I can plug a hard drive into it for mass uncompressed music storage.

Unfortunately no. There is no support for any lossless/uncompressed media on the DV-983H. You will have to wait for something like a media center/High Definition player for this support, as there are no good solutions for both DVD media playback and hi-resolution audio support.

Thank you for your evaluation! I, too, was a bit surprised by your findings. I hope you do more "preliminary comparisons" and maybe over at your local watering hole, you could let the Oppo folks know of your QT results. ;)

Trust me, they have been served proper documentation. It is a matter of their engineers having the ability to correct the errors which I am seeing.

I would recommend trying the PS3 again if you have not used it since the Spring 1.80 Firmware update. I was none too impressed with PS3 with the initial release, but the newer release at least does not show any additional errors which were not also present on the DV-983H and the DV-980H with a VP50.
Neuromancer,

Will do. I may be in for a pleasant surprise. I use my PS3 as my primary Blu-ray machine and a Samsung BD-P1200 for my SD player. Plus, I have a third machine for playing PAL and non-Region-1 discs. I am still holding out hope for the 983 replacing the latter two players. (And I must say am very ready to toss that buggy Samsung!)

BTW: I also appreciate your efforts here and am a bit surprised by the folks who have been giving you a hard time simply because you haven't been satisfying their agendas.

I can safely say that the 4:3 pillarboxing looks fantastic and does not introduce the same loss of resolution as the previous OPPO players (the ABT is doing the pillarboxing, rather than the MTK solution).

You have all of the standard Zoom modes of the current players, plus an additional Anamorphic Stretch (this is not AR specific, they just used a stretch mode which is mathematically common for Anamorphic 2:35:1 films) as well as some underscanning modes.

Sweet. I may just get the 983H for it's ability to zoom non-anamorphic letterbox and 4x3 DVD material.

Neuromancer,

Will do. I may be in for a pleasant surprise.
I would be interested in hearing your results with the PS3, especially if you have some specific time stamps and media which you think are good indicators of quality/inferior DVD playback. I can use these discs for testing on a later date.

I am going to be comparing this to the DV-58av from Pioneer which has the PCM-1796 DACs. Will the 983 have similar quality DACs or cheapies like the 980H has? I am going to use the analog output for SACDs so the DACs and output stage really matter to me.

hey guys! whats this talk of a 983 ? ive just stumbled on this thread

can someone point me to a web-link with specs (or somewhere that sells it)

oppodigital.com does not have it listed? :confused:

For video contents, such as music videos, the performance of the PS3 and the DV-983H were identical until I forced the DV-983H into Video mode. With Video mode enabled moire, aliasing and interlacing artifacts were greatly reduced.

Summation:
Film = Tie (more testing required)
Animation = PS3
Video = DV-983H

Hi

I too did some tests with my PS3 and found that the video handling wasn't that brilliant.

However, I went in under [Settings] > [BD / DVD Settings] > [Cinema Conversion] and changed the setting from Automatic to Video, forcing it into video mode. It really cleaned up the picture a lot, reducing the interlacing artifacts.

The PS3 with the 2.1 firmware really is quite impressive given it's a gaming console.

Thanks for your efforts, I really appreciate it.

Cheers

hey guys! whats this talk of a 983 ? ive just stumbled on this thread

can someone point me to a web-link with specs (or somewhere that sells it)

oppodigital.com does not have it listed? :confused:

It is not available yet, so there isn't an official spec list or site for it. Estimates are that it will arrive in the next month or two.

Hey Neuromancer,

got your hands on the Integra 9.8 yet? If so, how is it?

It is not available yet, so there isn't an official spec list or site for it. Estimates are that it will arrive in the next month or two.

thanks ! just shot an email at oppo and their reply is that the product is still in development... will be very interesting i suppose :D

Does the 983H use the ABT2010, or the ABT102/1018 combo? Maybe Oppo is waiting for the ABT2010 which looks like it integrates both deinterlacing and scaling functions onto an ASIC.

65/45nm chip designs are very challenging these days. I wouldn't be suprised if ABT has had delays in delivering the 2010 to customers.

Neuromancer, have you had the chance to compare the 983 with any other solution using the ABT chips such as the Toshiba hd-a30 (EU:HD-EP30)... reason why i ask is that i am terribly impatient to get a good sacd/dvd-a transport and hence am consdering the 980... WIth the difference is $$$ i can just as well get the Toshiba hd-dvd player to have one more in the cupboard, as long as it will have good sdDVD performance

The Toshiba doesn't use the ABT deinterlacer, just the scaler. I'm not sure that the Toshiba A30/A35 is even capable of 3:2 detection.

Dedicated DVD players are not what they used to be. Blame the price/performance push Toshiba has done with their HD DVD players. This has forced everyone else to either compete, or produce products which are only aimed at the elite (seriously, Denon and Marantz, I like you, but do we need a BD player that is $2K and isn't even profile 1.1 compliant?).

The demand for dedicated DVD players is declining. So either OPPO goes uber-rich, or they produce a product which is a nice middle ground between enthusiast and hardcore.

I basically agree, that's why I wonder what kind of sales this will get?


That said, how much would adding the secondary clock for 24Hz output cost? Would it really put this into 'uber-rich' territory?

Ahhhhhh...I see...The I consider myself in good company then...;)

Mac

:)

The Toshiba doesn't use the ABT deinterlacer, just the scaler. I'm not sure that the Toshiba A30/A35 is even capable of 3:2 detection.


as you can see im not very good at this... without polluting this thread anymore, i would be very grateful if you could tell me (OVER PM) some good dvd players that have proper chips (and this 3:2 detection whatever this is!!)

Called customer service to discuss a few issues. I am upgrading my tv in a month or two to a plasma from an old school 27inch set and I need to get a new player, but price is my number one concern... I am probably going to get a refurb 980H at this point

Heres what he said:

The 983 will definitely be a noticeable improvement over the 980/981

However, you would "have to be a pretty hardcore videophile to really appreciate it"

They are definitely within two months: "We are getting pretty close"

I asked about HD plans under the theory that I could get the 980 now and pick up a oppo HD Player in a year or two which should be even better than the 983 right?? Well, Maybe.

He said they are going to make an HD player but right now it is just in the discussion stage. According to this rep there are a couple of things they definitely won't do:

They won't make a dual format player (seems pretty obvious)
They haven't picked a format yet (that seems to be decided for them, but whatever...)

And he stressed, HEAVILY, that any bluray (or whatever) player they come out with will not be a dual processor solution. It will not have a scaler in it for SD DVD's. He used the Samsung 1200 or something as an example saying that it has a reon chip in it... that will not be how oppo goes about it. Apparently, oppo feels that will price them out of the market place. So, it may be worth the 983 just from that perspective. Apparently not only will it be better than anything oppo puts out, but it will be better (from an SD perspective) than anything oppo currently envisions EVER putting out.

got your hands on the Integra 9.8 yet? If so, how is it?

I am using it for audio only right now. Have not bothered doing a direct connection to the projector and seeing how it handles video scaling yet. That will be my project for the weekend.