Does the 983H use the ABT2010, or the ABT102/1018 combo? Maybe Oppo is waiting for the ABT2010 which looks like it integrates both deinterlacing and scaling functions onto an ASIC.

ABT102/1018. The ABT2010 will not be available for the release of the DV-983H.

The ABT2010 is a mere cost reduction and does not actually effect the performance of the player, so OPPO does not need to wait.

Neuromancer, have you had the chance to compare the 983 with any other solution using the ABT chips such as the Toshiba hd-a30 (EU:HD-EP30).

I unfortuantely do not have access to the Toshiba third generation players, so I have no way of testing just the scaling solution.

I made my mind... I'll never buy this product. I already have the PS3 and the SD upconversion is fine. The small 1-2% improvement in PQ is not worth buying the 983 if what you guys are saying is true.

Called customer service to discuss a few issues. I am upgrading my tv in a month or two to a plasma from an old school 27inch set and I need to get a new player, but price is my number one concern... I am probably going to get a refurb 980H at this point

Heres what he said:

The 983 will definitely be a noticeable improvement over the 980/981

However, you would "have to be a pretty hardcore videophile to really appreciate it"

They are definitely within two months: "We are getting pretty close"

I asked about HD plans under the theory that I could get the 980 now and pick up a oppo HD Player in a year or two which should be even better than the 983 right?? Well, Maybe.

He said they are going to make an HD player but right now it is just in the discussion stage. According to this rep there are a couple of things they definitely won't do:

They won't make a dual format player (seems pretty obvious)
They haven't picked a format yet (that seems to be decided for them, but whatever...)

And he stressed, HEAVILY, that any bluray (or whatever) player they come out with will not be a dual processor solution. It will not have a scaler in it for SD DVD's. He used the Samsung 1200 or something as an example saying that it has a reon chip in it... that will not be how oppo goes about it. Apparently, oppo feels that will price them out of the market place. So, it may be worth the 983 just from that perspective. Apparently not only will it be better than anything oppo puts out, but it will be better (from an SD perspective) than anything oppo currently envisions EVER putting out.

So Oppo's bluray player won't upscale sd dvd's or it won't have a red laser at all? If the latter it would be interesting as I've already got a Oppo 970. Also interested in the 983's upscaling vs the 970.

What the CSR is saying is that it is likely that said BD player will be a single chip solution. That is, there would be no need for an external scaler such as HQV or ABT.

I made my mind... I'll never buy this product. I already have the PS3 and the SD upconversion is fine. The small 1-2% improvement in PQ is not worth buying the 983 if what you guys are saying is true.

Personally the DV-983H is niche. It is only for the enthusiast. No others need apply.

I am going to be comparing this to the DV-58av from Pioneer which has the PCM-1796 DACs. Will the 983 have similar quality DACs or cheapies like the 980H has? I am going to use the analog output for SACDs so the DACs and output stage really matter to me.

swestbom,

Its mentioned near the start of this thread that the 983 has the same DACs and analog output as the 980.

I made my mind... I'll never buy this product. I already have the PS3 and the SD upconversion is fine. The small 1-2% improvement in PQ is not worth buying the 983 if what you guys are saying is true.

How you come up with the 1-2%?

Its mentioned near the start of this thread that the 983 has the same DACs and analog output as the 980.

It is very similar, but not exactly the same. You will have to wait for the NDA to lift for more details about the actual design of the player, as there are a couple of changes which are for the better.

It is very similar, but not exactly the same. You will have to wait for the NDA to lift for more details about the actual design of the player, as there are a couple of changes which are for the better.

:D

I tried to read this whole thread before posting this question, but my head started to ache by the time I got to the 20th page, so sorry if this has already been asked... :-)

Is the ATB de-interlacing/scaling solution only going to be used with the HDMI output, or is there still a chance that it will be used on the component output?

I live in Brazil, and HDMI TV sets are still a little on the expensive side :-( so I would love to be able to use ATB sophisticated solution through the component output.

And about the 768 resolution, wouldn't it be nice? Most LCD panels that aren't 1080p (at least here in Brazil) have a 1366x768 native resolution, and interpolation is something that not all panels do very well...

This forum is simply the best, and I wish to thank all of you for your attention and patience

Regards,

Brotoles

It is very similar, but not exactly the same. You will have to wait for the NDA to lift for more details about the actual design of the player, as there are a couple of changes which are for the better.

...


Okay ... you got my attention. I may have to hold out on my 980 purchase until all the info is known.


BTW - the 983 will out put 480i via HDMI, correct? Based on its performance, I likely won't need the capability ... but it would be nice to have just in case.

I tried to read this whole thread before posting this question, but my head started to ache by the time I got to the 20th page, so sorry if this has already been asked... :-)

Is the ATB de-interlacing/scaling solution only going to be used with the HDMI output, or is there still a chance that it will be used on the component output?

I live in Brazil, and HDMI TV sets are still a little on the expensive side :-( so I would love to be able to use ATB sophisticated solution through the component output.

And about the 768 resolution, wouldn't it be nice? Most LCD panels that aren't 1080p (at least here in Brazil) have a 1366x768 native resolution, and interpolation is something that not all panels do very well...

This forum is simply the best, and I wish to thank all of you for your attention and patience

Regards,

Brotoles

Just so you know, the few (I emphasize few) 1366x768 panels that offer 1x1 pixel-mapping, do it via VGA the VGA input. I'm not aware of any that accept it via Component or HDMI.

How you come up with the 1-2%?

Well, it's just a way to say that the difference is really small. Also, maybe future firmware upgrades will make the PS3 even better with all the horsepower it has. That's another reason not to spend 350+ bucks on a sd-dvd player for me.

"Also, maybe future firmware upgrades will make the PS3 even better with all the horsepower it has. That's another reason not to spend 350+ bucks on a sd-dvd player for me."

I think alot of us are getting ahead of ourselves with assuming the aforementioned specs of the beta version 983 (with beta firmware) will in fact be the 983s released featues and specs. Not to mention neuro and company can't release alot of info of specs and performance because of the NDA and they are only able to disclose info that obviously oppo has approved?

Time will ony tell...

swestbom,

Its mentioned near the start of this thread that the 983 has the same DACs and analog output as the 980.

Thanks for the input, but that settles it for me, DV-58av here I come. The POC DACs in the 980 may be irrelevant to most because of digital audio over HDMI, but not for me. Thanks for the input.

I am in the small minority who care about SACD playback so the audio trumps video for me every time and I am not buying a new receiver or controller just to get DSD over HDMI with a mediocre implementation.

Personally the DV-983H is niche. It is only for the enthusiast. No others need apply.
Makes me want one even more now. You should be in marketing.:)

Makes me want one even more now. You should be in marketing.:)

Me too :) I can't wait to find out if the upscaled picture from the 983 will look better on a Kuro than 480i via HDMI from the 980.

BTW - the 983 will out put 480i via HDMI, correct?

No one here has said that it will.

-Bill

Me too :) I can't wait to find out if the upscaled picture from the 983 will look better on a Kuro than 480i via HDMI from the 980.

The word from Oppo is they have a PAL/cadence related firmware in the works for the 980 (i heard it was at the beta stage a few weeks ago). It will be interesting to see how the two match up once both firmware & the 983 are released...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elder Young View Post
So will it have deinterlacing and cadence handling equal to or better than the Faroudja in the 981?
Anchor Bay's Precision Deinterlacing is considered one of the best, if not the best, deinterlacing solutions. It is a 10-bit Motion, Edge and Source Adaptive deinterlacer which is cadence agnostic. The scaling solution in the Oppo DV-983 is also from Anchor Bay, but it is not the ABT1010 it is the ABT1018 (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/product...rs/abt1018.php). The major difference between these two scaling chips is that the ABT1018 has frame-rate conversion and it supports more output resolutions.

The Oppo DV-983 has the potential to provide exactly the same performance as an SDI modified DVD player connected to a DVDO iScan VP30 (MSRP $1999 + SDI Input Module $399) with the ABT102 ($499) Precision Deinterlacing card installed.
__________________
Josh Allen
DVDO
by Anchor Bay

Neuromancer...do you feel this is an accurate assessment of the players capabilities? I have never owned the iScan SDI input module or a ABT102 card...but...from the looks of it it would seem that this would be about the best one could get to do SD DVD's with in a stand alone unit..

Mac

Makes me want one even more now. You should be in marketing.:)

When I think of the DV-983H I immediately begin associate the advertising campaign Yamaha is doing for their flagship receiver:

"Only .00001% of the U.S. population willl own one. Pity"

No one here has said that it will.

I am in awe at your ability to skirt commenting on functions of the DV-983H which OPPO is not allowing people to talk about.

Neuromancer...do you feel this is an accurate assessment of the players capabilities?

The current implementation is still a little wonky on some cadences (such as those for animations) but it is very close to the performance I see with the DV-980H feeding 480i HDMI to my VP50.

The performance is better than the Faroudja chipset, especially with this solution not macroblock enhancing or producing a "softer" image.

The performance is better than the Faroudja chipset, especially with this solution not macroblock enhancing or producing a "softer" image.

+1

The current implementation is still a little wonky on some cadences (such as those for animations) but it is very close to the performance I see with the DV-980H feeding 480i HDMI to my VP50.

The performance is better than the Faroudja chipset, especially with this solution not macroblock enhancing or producing a "softer" image.

Forgive my ignorance...but is the VP50 as good as the others when used in combination ? I am feeding a 60" SXRD XBR 2...not a projector...but do have plans eventually to change either to one of the new Kuro's of a good projector & screen...

Mac

Forgive my ignorance...but is the VP50 as good as the others when used in combination ?

Mac

As good as the other WHAT?:confused:
The VP50 is a high end external scaler.

As good as the other WHAT?
The VP50 is a high end external scaler.

As good as what I ask him 6 post ago...since I have never used this equipment..nor a VP50..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elder Young View Post
So will it have deinterlacing and cadence handling equal to or better than the Faroudja in the 981?
Anchor Bay's Precision Deinterlacing is considered one of the best, if not the best, deinterlacing solutions. It is a 10-bit Motion, Edge and Source Adaptive deinterlacer which is cadence agnostic. The scaling solution in the Oppo DV-983 is also from Anchor Bay, but it is not the ABT1010 it is the ABT1018 (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/product...rs/abt1018.php). The major difference between these two scaling chips is that the ABT1018 has frame-rate conversion and it supports more output resolutions.

The Oppo DV-983 has the potential to provide exactly the same performance as an SDI modified DVD player connected to a DVDO iScan VP30 (MSRP $1999 + SDI Input Module $399) with the ABT102 ($499) Precision Deinterlacing card installed.
__________________
Josh Allen
DVDO
by Anchor Bay
Neuromancer...do you feel this is an accurate assessment of the players capabilities? I have never owned the iScan SDI input module or a ABT102 card...but...from the looks of it it would seem that this would be about the best one could get to do SD DVD's with in a stand alone unit..

Mac

I'm trying to have a better understanding of the players true capabilities when compared to such lofty high end equipment..and how it will suit my needs now...and at some point in the future going with either a projector or one of the new Kuros..nothing more

Mac

As good as what I ask him 6 post ago...since I have never used this equipment..nor a VP50..



I'm trying to have a better understanding of the players true capabilities when compared to such lofty high end equipment..and how it will suit my needs now...and at some point in the future going with either a projector or one of the new Kuros..nothing more

Mac

Your assumptions in post #1272 would be correct. You COULD do better, but it would cost you way, wayyy more than the 983 will.

In terms of video quality, would this order be correct for a Pioneer Kuro?

1. Oppo 983: 1080p upconversion. <---- Best
2. Oppo 980: 480i over HDMI.
3. PS3: (?) upconversion.

And, would the "average Joe" notice a difference between these 3 choices, or only hardcore videophiles? (assuming a "normal" seating distance)

Thanks for any input!

I have a similiar question: What do people mean by an upconverting player in general terms. Is it 560,720,or 1080. What resolution can I expect for component, hdmi?

The word from Oppo is they have a PAL/cadence related firmware in the works for the 980 (i heard it was at the beta stage a few weeks ago). It will be interesting to see how the two match up once both firmware & the 983 are released...

Any links to info referencing this? I'm interested in what their plans are.

I have a similiar question: What do people mean by an upconverting player in general terms. Is it 560,720,or 1080. What resolution can I expect for component, hdmi?

480i and 480p are the standard definition resolutions (NTSC), For PAL it is 576i and 576p.

720p and 1080i have been common HD resolutions. 1080p has become popular recently.

Component is restricted to SD resolutions for reasons of Digital Rights Management.

-Bill

Any links to info referencing this? I'm interested in what their plans are.

You can call them and ask them about it. Other than that, there is no "official" info here or anywhere else. Neuromancer here on AVS is the man "in-the-know" who has informed us that Oppo is working on the new firmware. The last time he commented on it, I believe he said they were still working on it. Most of their "efforts" are being put into the DV-983H, so who knows when the 980 will receive what we need.:)

I couldn't continue waiting for this player, so I got a VP30 and ABT102 along with an Oppo 980. I couldn't be any happier with the performance of this combo. The de-interlacing/scaling quality of this solution blows away the Reon implementation in my Denon DVD-2930CI. The Denon has problems with its auto de-interlacing mode, and its scaling introduces some significant aliasing. I'm keeping the Denon as an audio-only player, however. If the 983 offers the same core performance as the external VP30/ABT102 solution, then owners will be in for a real treat.

Here is a suggestion. Since this player seems to be entirely about video performance for a very flawed medium (interlaced DVDs) rather than offer compromised audio and analog outputs for video skip the audio DACs entirely and only have an HDMI output. Let's face it all the work that goes into scaling and de-interlacing is because DVDs were designed around 1950s technology (NTSC video).

Maybe the market is too small in theory but I bet all buyers of this player will have HDMI equipped receivers and controllers to take advantage of it.

Here is a suggestion. Since this player seems to be entirely about video performance for a very flawed medium (interlaced DVDs) rather than offer compromised audio and analog outputs for video skip the audio DACs entirely and only have an HDMI output. Let's face it all the work that goes into scaling and de-interlacing is because DVDs were designed around 1950s technology (NTSC video).

Maybe the market is too small in theory but I bet all buyers of this player will have HDMI equipped receivers and controllers to take advantage of it.

What makes you think it is entirely about video...? So...what is your suggestion...?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnyozero3 View Post
Quick question - So, the 983 will be on the same chassis as the 980, not the 981...does this mean it'll have the same "guts" for audio as the 980? I know it may not make a big difference, but those 970/980s seem to have too good of a reputation for audio to just ignore the question...
From the OP:

"This player is basically the processing of a VP50 added right inline with a 980."

So yes, it is designed to be a DV-980H with a better de-interlacing and scaling solution built ontop of it.

While the 983 may be about video and correcting the flawed medium as you say...it is built on a good foundation of the 980...so the audio aspect is there as well...


Mac

Don't agree with you Westbom, the 2 channel/5.1 channel audio quality of the 980 was very highly regarded in Stereophile reviews. It was considered an exceptional value. If the 983 is as good or better as an audio player, it more than justifies its existence. The video aspect is exciting in many ways. Sure, I wish OPPO would design a Blu Ray player with every aspect of the 983 PLUS high def video, but that remains to be seen.

Hey!! OPPO, my birthday is on the 2-19-- please make me Happy.
I'll come by your office to make it a day to remmember....
db

Here is a suggestion. Since this player seems to be entirely about video performance for a very flawed medium (interlaced DVDs) rather than offer compromised audio and analog outputs for video skip the audio DACs entirely and only have an HDMI output. Let's face it all the work that goes into scaling and de-interlacing is because DVDs were designed around 1950s technology (NTSC video).

Maybe the market is too small in theory but I bet all buyers of this player will have HDMI equipped receivers and controllers to take advantage of it.

"...but I bet all buyers...will have HDMI equipped receivers..."

I don't.

I couldn't continue waiting for this player, so I got a VP30 and ABT102 along with an Oppo 980. I couldn't be any happier with the performance of this combo. The de-interlacing/scaling quality of this solution blows away the Reon implementation in my Denon DVD-2930CI. The Denon has problems with its auto de-interlacing mode, and its scaling introduces some significant aliasing. I'm keeping the Denon as an audio-only player, however. If the 983 offers the same core performance as the external VP30/ABT102 solution, then owners will be in for a real treat.

What display are you running this set up on..?

Mac

I couldn't continue waiting for this player, so I got a VP30 and ABT102 along with an Oppo 980. I couldn't be any happier with the performance of this combo. The de-interlacing/scaling quality of this solution blows away the Reon implementation in my Denon DVD-2930CI. The Denon has problems with its auto de-interlacing mode, and its scaling introduces some significant aliasing. I'm keeping the Denon as an audio-only player, however. If the 983 offers the same core performance as the external VP30/ABT102 solution, then owners will be in for a real treat.

Good to hear. I'd be more than happy if the 983 simply matches the Reon for film.

"...but I bet all buyers...will have HDMI equipped receivers..."

I don't.
Nor I.

+1
Also I'm using an HD CRT without HDMI so that'll actually make +2

What display are you running this set up on..?

Mac

I am using a Panasonic TH-58PZ750U plasma display until I finally decide on a new projector that has proper 1080p/24 handling. The Panasonic has served me well though, as I view my movies in a small room. It also displays 1080p/60 signals with 1:1 pixel mapping, making for valid comparisons.

One of the problems with the Denon's de-interlacing is that it often slips out of film mode when watching film material and having it set to "auto." Tests like the HQV benchmark don't exhibit this, but it becomes a real problem in real-world viewing of movies. Aliasing can become glaringly obvious on occasion and is obviously caused by the Denon's scaling, because it's gone when outputting 480p with the player. The 480i output is also poor on the Denon, in that it doesn't seem to be direct-from-disc (it seems to be processing to 480p and then back to 480i) and causes my VP30 to fail numerous de-interlacing tests.

I've had none of these problems with the VP30/ABT102 and Oppo 980.

I am using a Panasonic TH-58PZ750U plasma display until I finally decide on a new projector that has proper 1080p/24 handling. The Panasonic has served me well though, as I view my movies in a small room. It also displays 1080p/60 signals with 1:1 pixel mapping, making for valid comparisons.

One of the problems with the Denon's de-interlacing is that it often slips out of film mode when watching film material and having it set to "auto." Tests like the HQV benchmark don't exhibit this, but it becomes a real problem in real-world viewing of movies. Aliasing can become glaringly obvious on occasion and is obviously caused by the Denon's scaling, because it's gone when outputting 480p with the player. The 480i output is also poor on the Denon, in that it doesn't seem to be direct-from-disc (it seems to be processing to 480p and then back to 480i) and causes my VP30 to fail numerous de-interlacing tests.

I've had none of these problems with the VP30/ABT102 and Oppo 980.

I too noticed when I owned the XA2 and 2930CI that it slipped into video mode; I had to make sure I kept it in FILM mode. I remember watching Star Wars where moving starships would have severe aliasing.

wow, seems like most of us are just getting our hands on the Oppo DV-980H and here we are talking about the DV-983H.............

I too noticed when I owned the XA2 and 2930CI that it slipped into video mode; I had to make sure I kept it in FILM mode. I remember watching Star Wars where moving starships would have severe aliasing.

It's interesting that the XA2 also exhibits these problems. I guess this is a flaw of the Reon chip in general and not how Denon implemented it. This makes sense though, as I've heard its architecture doesn't allow for much manipulation done by player manufacturers.

I am using a Panasonic TH-58PZ750U plasma display until I finally decide on a new projector that has proper 1080p/24 handling. The Panasonic has served me well though, as I view my movies in a small room. It also displays 1080p/60 signals with 1:1 pixel mapping, making for valid comparisons.

One of the problems with the Denon's de-interlacing is that it often slips out of film mode when watching film material and having it set to "auto." Tests like the HQV benchmark don't exhibit this, but it becomes a real problem in real-world viewing of movies. Aliasing can become glaringly obvious on occasion and is obviously caused by the Denon's scaling, because it's gone when outputting 480p with the player. The 480i output is also poor on the Denon, in that it doesn't seem to be direct-from-disc (it seems to be processing to 480p and then back to 480i) and causes my VP30 to fail numerous de-interlacing tests.

I've had none of these problems with the VP30/ABT102 and Oppo 980.
Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by "aliasing" -- i.e., what kind of visual artifacts were you seeing?

As you may know, the Reon chip isn't actually manufactured by Silicon Optix (unlike the more expensive Realta chip), but rather by a licensed vendor (Algolith, I believe). Have you experienced similar problems with a Realta-equipped player (e.g., a 3930)? The reason I ask is, I also have a 58PZ750U, and have a Denon 3800 blu-ray player on order, which has the Realta chip for deinterlacing and scaling.

I had an Arcam DV-139 for a week or so, which uses ABT equipment like the pending 983, and it looked tremendous; unfortunately, the HDCP implementation was buggy -- it kept dropping the soundtrack (it did the same on a Sony XBR5) -- so I returned it.

I want a blu-ray player, but SOTA SD DVD playback is equally important to me. The Denon seems like a great one-box solution, but if an Oppo 983 and Pio blu-ray combo is better at half the price, I may need to reconsider...

BTW, did you notice any difference with your HD TV feed going through the ABT equipment vs. going directly into the Panny?

Is DSD over HDMI part of the feature set? Earlier posts indicated at that time that it was yet undecided.

I think it is still undecided... maybe Neuromancer can give more info if he can.

Can't confirm. NDA prohibits this. Like I said many times in the past, many of the features of the unit can't be confirmed until the product has been officially announced.

Is there anything we could do to try to convince Oppo this will be a very welcome feature? A forum poll perhaps? :)

Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by "aliasing" -- i.e., what kind of visual artifacts were you seeing?

By aliasing I mean a couple of things. There are stair-stepping artifacts, also known as "jaggies," that are noticeable when I let the Denon scale the image to 1080p. This is where edges of objects have block artifacts that resemble steps on a staircase. Then there are moire artifacts that are a common byproduct of poor de-interlacing. This is where a mesh-like interference is imbedded within the image. A search online would give you a better description of this.

As you may know, the Reon chip isn't actually manufactured by Silicon Optix (unlike the more expensive Realta chip), but rather by a licensed vendor (Algolith, I believe). Have you experienced similar problems with a Realta-equipped player (e.g., a 3930)? The reason I ask is, I also have a 58PZ750U, and have a Denon 3800 blu-ray player on order, which has the Realta chip for deinterlacing and scaling.

I have no personal experience with the Realta. I have heard nothing but good things about it though and always wanted to give it a shot before I ultimately went with the ABT solution. The Realta is apparently really good at quickly and reliably locking onto even the most difficult cadences, so as you insinuate, it wouldn't be fair to use the Reon as an example of how well the Realta performs.

I want a blu-ray player, but SOTA SD DVD playback is equally important to me. The Denon seems like a great one-box solution, but if an Oppo 983 and Pio blu-ray combo is better at half the price, I may need to reconsider...

The Denon does seem like it will be a great BD player. If I were in your situation, I would either wait for reviews or buy from a dealer that has a good return policy if you are unsatisfied with its performance. If you are outputting 1080p/60 for Blu-ray film material instead of straight 1080p/24, then the Denon's Realta should have an added advantage over the Pioneer.

...rather than offer compromised audio and analog outputs for video skip the audio DACs entirely and only have an HDMI output...
NO! I hope Oppo doesn't do this. Many of us are counting on the 983 to be an Audiophile SACD/DVD-A player without having to go out and buy an HDMI equipped receiver just for audio.

By aliasing I mean a couple of things. There are stair-stepping artifacts, also known as "jaggies," that are noticeable when I let the Denon scale the image to 1080p. This is where edges of objects have block artifacts that resemble steps on a staircase. Then there are moire artifacts that are a common byproduct of poor de-interlacing. This is where a mesh-like interference is imbedded within the image. A search online would give you a better description of this.



I have no personal experience with the Realta. I have heard nothing but good things about it though and always wanted to give it a shot before I ultimately went with the ABT solution. The Realta is apparently really good at quickly and reliably locking onto even the most difficult cadences, so as you insinuate, it wouldn't be fair to use the Reon as an example of how well the Realta performs.



The Denon does seem like it will be a great BD player. If I were in your situation, I would either wait for reviews or buy from a dealer that has a good return policy if you are unsatisfied with its performance. If you are outputting 1080p/60 for Blu-ray film material instead of straight 1080p/24, then the Denon's Realta should have an added advantage over the Pioneer.
Thanks for the feedback. It seems your reply crossed with my edit of my initial post -- did you notice any difference between your HD TV feed going through the ABT equipment vs. directly into the Panny? Another alternative is to simply get a Blu-ray transport and an Oppo 980, then route them both through a DVDO VP50. This would be more expensive, but if it gives me better HD TV as well...

NO! I hope Oppo doesn't do this. Many of us are counting on the 983 to be an Audiophile SACD/DVD-A player without having to go out and buy an HDMI equipped receiver just for audio.


The audio is mediocre, if it uses the Cirrus Logic CS4361 DAC (the one in the 980H) this isn't an audiophile grade piece. It isn't a bad DAC, but Cirrus Logic makes much better ones as does Burr Brown. That is why I would suggest that this player be built as a digital audio out only player.

Why bother with really good video output with mediocre audio? I will probably get the Pioneer unit because the analog output section specs out much better despite the video probably not being as good (I only have a 30 inch LCD so I would never see the difference anyway and my wife would never give anything larger house room). I will grumble every time I can't skip over the stupid copyright warnings with the Pioneer though.

+1
Also I'm using an HD CRT without HDMI so that'll actually make +2
My HD CRT has a DVI-HDCP input, but I'd still prefer a YPbPr connection, if only for the sake of ID1/WSS (widescreen signalling). I hate having to go into the TV menu to turn the vertical squeeze on or off whenever I switch between anamorphic/non-anamorphic content. (I believe HDMI has its own method of widescreen signalling, but DVI does not.)

I guess one way around this would be to have an option to automatically output 480p for non-anamorphic material, and 1080i for anamorphic. This ought to be ridiculously simple to implement in firmware, but I'm not holding my breath. (The other advantage of this method would be to preserve the full vertical resolution of anamorphic PAL content, while preventing non-anamorphic PAL from being "postage-stamped" on my 4:3 display.)

Oh, and as for the audio? 2ch analog all the way, baby!

One of the problems with the Denon's de-interlacing is that it often slips out of film mode when watching film material and having it set to "auto."
Stangely enough, I have exactly the opposite problem with the Faroudja deinterlacing in both the Denon 3910 and the Oppo 981, particularly when playing PAL discs--that is, they tend to get stuck in film mode, even when the footage has switched to video! This results in some nasty combing on all movement and a halving of temporal resolution, until the Faroudja finally figures out that it isn't working with film anymore. This can be mitigated somewhat with the Denon, as it offers five different deinterlacing modes ("VIDEO 3" works best for me), but even then the problem persists to some degree. It's a real nuisance if you watch a lot of old BBC stuff, which is typically a mix of PAL studio video and 2:2 film inserts.

Hopefully, the ABT102 should do a much better job of coping...

I too noticed when I owned the XA2 and 2930CI that it slipped into video mode; I had to make sure I kept it in FILM mode. I remember watching Star Wars where moving starships would have severe aliasing.

David, are you referring to aliasing present in the original trilogy (especially the beginning of Episode IV) non-anamorphic versions?

If so, the aliasing on these discs appears burned into the image, as I can't find a way to eliminate it.

David, are you referring to aliasing present in the original trilogy (especially the beginning of Episode IV) non-anamorphic versions?

If so, the aliasing on these discs appears burned into the image, as I can't find a way to eliminate it.

Nope - I'm refering to the SE version of A New Hope. I don't have the time stamp off the top of my head, but the scene of the star destroyer moving - right after the scene where Vader is first introduced to Leia - is a good example. There's also another couple of scenes in there like that.

The audio is mediocre, if it uses the Cirrus Logic CS4361 DAC (the one in the 980H) this isn't an audiophile grade piece.

If this is truly the case, then your original post makes no sense as I doubt they'll change the design this late in the game.

As an aside, a mediocre DAC well implemented is often better than a better DAC with a mediocre implementation.

If this is truly the case, then your original post makes no sense as I doubt they'll change the design this late in the game.

As an aside, a mediocre DAC well implemented is often better than a better DAC with a mediocre implementation.

That may be true but you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The Oppo's sound is probably fine for the price but I doubt it will give the DV-58av a run for its money with audio.

The dynamic range and THD+N figures for the PCM-1796 are orders of magnitude better than for this Cirrus Logic chip set. My past experience with Pioneer Elite audio quality has always been first rate for the price. The rest of the audio circuitry is probably of better quality in the Pioneer as well unless Pioneer is just putting lead weights in to get the difference in component weight (I don't think so). The video and audio circuitry are separated in the Pioneer unit. Buy the Oppo for video and features or as a digital audio transport, but if you truly want close to state of the art audio go elsewhere.

That may be true but you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The Oppo's sound is probably fine for the price but I doubt it will give the DV-58av a run for its money with audio.

The dynamic range and THD+N figures for the PCM-1796 are orders of magnitude better than for this Cirrus Logic chip set. My past experience with Pioneer Elite audio quality has always been first rate for the price. The rest of the audio circuitry is probably of better quality in the Pioneer as well unless Pioneer is just putting lead weights in to get the difference in component weight (I don't think so). The video and audio circuitry are separated in the Pioneer unit. Buy the Oppo for video and features or as a digital audio transport, but if you truly want close to state of the art audio go elsewhere.

First off...as far as I know...none of the Oppo players could be considered a sows ear...especially with reviews like this one on the 980...which is what the 983 Audio is based on..http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cd-dvd-player-product-reviews/universal-players/oppo-dv-980h-universal-dvd-player-audio-performance.html

The DV-980H is Oppo's new budget DVD player offering, and is their first product to be engineered specifically for audio performance. It still offers 1080p upconversion and quality deinterlacing, although this is done with a simpler single chip solution, whereas the flagship 981HD uses a Faroudja DCDi deinterlacing and scaling engine. For the 980H, Oppo enlisted the help of a well-known (but unnamed) high-end audio company to assist in the development of the 980H's audio circuitry. Like "store brand" wines from Costco or Trader Joe's, this method can result in some incredible products at stupendously low prices. As with wine, the "well known" company might be happy to help, but doesn't want its own business undercut by having it known that their work can be found in a product costing less than 1/10 what their own products sell for. In the end it's the results that matter, and the DV-980H delivers....Hmmm...no sows ear here...let's see what else is said...
Inside, the Oppo is very well put together for such an inexpensive component. The power supply does have the expected small transformer, and not all that much power supply capacitance, but the quality of the boards is high, and electrolytic capacitors are used throughout. The power supply board is separate from one other L-shaped board housing both the video and audio circuitry. This is another sacrifice to keep the cost down. Eight audio channels (for 7.1 output, with mixed L and R analog outputs doubling as LF and RF), are located just behind the RCA jacks. Analog output stages are based on the TI NE5532A low noise dual op amp, a high quality but fairly low cost chip. Electrolytic caps are again used throughout the audio output stage. A Cirrus Logic CS4631 6-channel 24 bit 196 kHz sampling rate DAC handles the digital to analog conversion. All in all, I've seen (and own) many components costing several times more than have lower quality internal construction.
...Hmmm...sounds like it is built pretty darn good to me...

The 980H also fed a Bel Canto DAC 1.1 upsampling DAC. This somewhat old DAC still uses a very sophisticated reclocking technique, where the digital data is read into a FIFO buffer (First In First Out), and then clocked out with a very stable crystal oscillator. This method completely eliminates transport induced clock jitter. Since Redbook CD's sample timing is completely defined by the stability of the transport, reclocking can be very effective.
The performance punchline for the 980H is that it blows the 981HD out of the water with all source material, while almost equaling the performance of the $1500 Bel Canto on Redbook CD and 24/96 PCM. While the 981HD had fairly good audio performance, I always knew I was missing something. The Bel Canto DAC 1.1 sounded far better on standard CD material in every way. Listening to SACD improved matters some, but not to the level it should have. Substituting the 980H was transforming. What was a huge difference between the Oppo and the DAC 1.1 now took extremely careful listening to tell apart. SACD regained that transcendent space and smoothness it should deliver. By comparison, the 981HD was coarse and bright sounding, with muddy bass and artifical sounding midrange. The 980H offered smooth, natural sound, with tight, well-controlled bass. When compared to the $1500 DAC 1.1, the Oppo revealed a couple very small shortcomings. The high end of the Oppo was just a little bit hard and brittle in comparison, while the bass was not quite as tight and deep. In addition, the Bel Canto's images were a bit more three dimensional, although the width, and height of the soundstage, along with image separation was indistinguishable. To find this took direct A-B comparison, flipping back and forth between the two sources on the preamp. The effects are very small. Large enough that I haven't sold the DAC 1.1 yet, but very minor points. I'm sure the modders will have a field day with this player, since the power supply is an obvious first step to improving performance. The electrolytic coupling capacitors in the analog stage might also benefit from higher quality replacements. The op-amps are already very good, so I can't imagine you would gain too much there. Their small 16 pin SOIC packages will make it a real pain in the rear to kludge in a discrete part op-amp replacement like a Burson Audio super op-amp.

...Damn...All of this from a $169 player.....no...I don't think a sows ear would be an accurate statement...since it's comparable to a $1500 Bel Canto...not to mention having the high end video aspect as well...The Oppo DV-983 has the potential to provide exactly the same performance as an SDI modified DVD player connected to a DVDO iScan VP30 (MSRP $1999 + SDI Input Module $399) with the ABT102 ($499) Precision Deinterlacing card installed.
...Let's do the math....seems to me...for the asking price of $300-$350...you get the performance of about $4,359 dollars worth of equipment...Now...I doubt you really see it this way...but...I would say that would make this one damn impressive piece of equipment...

Mac

That may be true but you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The Oppo's sound is probably fine for the price but I doubt it will give the DV-58av a run for its money with audio.

The dynamic range and THD+N figures for the PCM-1796 are orders of magnitude better than for this Cirrus Logic chip set....

Again...you can quote the DAC specs all day long, but until you measure the performance of the system, you can't be certain of it's performance.

Do you have independent lab measurements of the DV-58av and the DV-980H?

Further, the cost difference between the DACs is about a $1. One would think that if this is Oppo's pinnacle DVD/DVD-A/SACD player they would of given a decent amount of consideration to the audio quality of this unit. Of course...I could be wrong. :)

Thanks for the feedback. It seems your reply crossed with my edit of my initial post -- did you notice any difference between your HD TV feed going through the ABT equipment vs. directly into the Panny? Another alternative is to simply get a Blu-ray transport and an Oppo 980, then route them both through a DVDO VP50. This would be more expensive, but if it gives me better HD TV as well...

I've only had a chance to extensively use the VP30 with my DVD players and game consoles. I will send you a PM when my input can be valid regarding other sources.

By the way, the DVDO processors aesthetically match some of Denon's players quite nicely. Being the geek I am, I took a quick picture before getting everything setup. :D

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6960/img0408za1.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0408za1.jpg)

WOW! 44 pages and over 1300 posts for a player that doesn't even exist for the public to purchase. With 2 months more of waiting time I'm wondering what is left to be stated on speculation. I can't wait til the 983 comes out though. I hope it lives up to all the hype.

Again...you can quote the DAC specs all day long, but until you measure the performance of the system, you can't be certain of it's performance.

Do you have independent lab measurements of the DV-58av and the DV-980H?

Further, the cost difference between the DACs is about a $1. One would think that if this is Oppose pinnacle DVD/DVD-A/SACD player they would of given a decent amount of consideration to the audio quality of this unit. Of course...I could be wrong. :)


Although the use of a competent DAC is a real world consideration, when it comes to SOTA sound quality in the digital audio play back arena, the implementation of a high quality analog output stage is where all the sound quality resides at , you get what you pay for when it comes to engineering the best possible, sound wise...;)

Is there anything we could do to try to convince Oppo this will be a very welcome feature? A forum poll perhaps? :)

They been told many times to do DSD over HDMI for the DV-983H. Hardware considerations may or may not allow them to support this functionality.

The dynamic range and THD+N figures for the PCM-1796 are orders of magnitude better than for this Cirrus Logic chip set.

John E. Johnson of Home Theater and High Fidelity will agree with you about the importance of dynamic range THD+N values. And from what I have heard from testing with the DV-983H, the DV-983H is better than the DV-980H. We will have to wait for reviews to drop for actual proof, however.

Although the use of a competent DAC is a real world consideration, when it comes to SOTA sound quality in the digital audio play back arena, the implementation of a high quality analog output stage is where all the sound quality resides at , you get what you pay for when it comes to engineering the best possible, sound wise...;)

I somewhat agree but I believe the total system to include, power supply, board/circuit design, other component quality, etc, can have close to an equal effect. And in the final analysis, differences in designs may only be in the characteristics of the sound produced, with neither being superior, just different. Much like the differences in the characteristic sound of a tube amp versus a solid state amp where the improvement in sound quality versus cost quickly reaches a point of diminishing returns. :)

I've only had a chance to extensively use the VP30 with my DVD players and game consoles. I will send you a PM when my input can be valid regarding other sources.

By the way, the DVDO processors aesthetically match some of Denon's players quite nicely. Being the geek I am, I took a quick picture before getting everything setup. :D

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6960/img0408za1.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0408za1.jpg)

Yup...they sure does look nice together...

Mac

My past experience with Pioneer Elite audio quality has always been first rate for the price.

If this is true, then the 59AVi should have better audio than the 79AVi, which should have better audio than the *new* 58AV. :)

You continue to ignore the positive things that both Stereophile, Secrets, and others say about the audio of Oppo players. If you want to go buy the Pio, have fun. :) But you don't have to continue to ignorantly put down Oppo.

WOW! 44 pages and over 1300 posts for a player that doesn't even exist for the public to purchase. With 2 months more of waiting time I'm wondering what is left to be stated on speculation. I can't wait til the 983 comes out though. I hope it lives up to all the hype.

When it does come out...I would imagine there will most likely will be more that the 970's 200 pages;)

Mac

If this is true, then the 59AVi should have better audio than the 79AVi, which should have better audio than the *new* 58AV. :)

You continue to ignore the positive things that both Stereophile, Secrets, and others say about the audio of Oppo players. If you want to go buy the Pio, have fun. :) But you don't have to continue to ignorantly put down Oppo.

Not really, it is good for the price point. It is a budget DAC used in the player, the THD+N and dynamic range of the DAC are pretty near the trailing edge of current chips. Most of the reviews always say it is good for the price, I cannot deny that. But it is good for the price, not great overall, that is the reason behind the following:

"the Oppo revealed a couple very small shortcomings. The high end of the Oppo was just a little bit hard and brittle in comparison, while the bass was not quite as tight and deep."

This is where more money for component quality comes into play. There is a point of diminishing returns and the Oppo is at it. You pay a lot more money for small improvements. The Pioneer at 2.5 times the price is going to be a little better because of the extra 13 decibels of dynamic range (that is quite substantial) and the better THD+N number and probably a better output stage to match the DAC upgrade, I am assuming there is a reason for the weight difference and it is in the capacitors, shielding, op-amps, power supplies, etc. I make that assumption based strictly on past players (just as we are doing with the 983 versus the 980) and it is just an assumption the proof will be in the pudding.

Better components are not going to blow you away immediately, but you will hear it when you hear a large dynamic change such as a rim shot or better yet a crescendo in an orchestral piece where the cheaper component will get harsh or the bass will not be solid because the output stage cannot maintain the signal. My wife is a violinist and you hear the difference in DACs and output stages on most music when you are aggressive on the higher notes on the E string when the instrument is closely miked.

Oppo probably got the most out of audio DACs for the price point but put their real time and effort into video, the de-interlacing and scaling are much harder problems than processing a digital audio stream, someone has to write code for all the conditions and flagging that need to be handled (it becomes straight forward again with native progressive scan material, unlike DVDs).

My point is that specs and component quality are really easy to quantify for straight forward digital to analog conversion, but not for video. The rest of an audio component review is pure subjective B.S., entertaining but not informative. If you value DSP then audio isn't straight forward, but I am talking about audio quality from SACDs and CDs where I don't want any of that crap.

There's a lot more to audio quality than just the DAC used but I do agree with swestbom that the BB 1796 is superior to the Cirrus logic DAC used in the 980 and presumably in the 983 but not just based on specs. I have a Zhaolu 2.5C DAC with a Zapfilter installed that is based on Cirrus Logic's flagship DAC, the 4398 and it does give the 1796 an easy run for the gold. It's excellent. The Zapfilter discrete output stage makes the difference.

However, back on topic, here is a post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12716247&postcount=20 by Ric Shultz that I would take as gospel. If you don't know Ric, he's one of the folks that mods DVD players etc. for the high end audiophile folks that demand only the best. He has an impeccable reputation and offers mods for the 980. He clearly states that the DV58AV is the best *stock* player he's heard using the analog outs.

That brings up a pet peeve for me. HDMI sucks and is only used to prevent copying. HDMI turns your DVD player into a transport rather than a true playback device. It is not a superior method or does it provide better quality audio. The DAC's implementation in receivers will not be the equal of a well designed dedicated playback component. If you think it is, you either have a crappy DVD (audio) or you've spent megabucks on a receiver that would have bought a lot better sound quality investing in excellent quality separates from Emotiva, Outlaw or similar value companies.

Sorry for the rant but I continually read about the problems people are having with equipment when using HDMI and I wonder why they're doing it.

HTH

Jim

How does one get in touch with Ric..I've done a search for him and can't find him..

Mac

That brings up a pet peeve for me. HDMI sucks and is only used to prevent copying. HDMI turns your DVD player into a transport rather than a true playback device. It is not a superior method or does it provide better quality audio. The DAC's implementation in receivers will not be the equal of a well designed dedicated playback component. If you think it is, you either have a crappy DVD (audio) or you've spent megabucks on a receiver that would have bought a lot better sound quality investing in excellent quality separates from Emotiva, Outlaw or similar value companies.

Jim

Ditto, dude! I couldn't agree more.

How does one get in touch with Ric..I've done a search for him and can't find him..

Mac

Here's Ric's website. http://www.tweakaudio.com/index.html There's contact info there.

Jim

jholtz, I have some general agreements and some disagreements with your statement.
First off, HDMI doesn't "suck". Could it have been implemented better, yes, but it's a serious improvement in video pq and a good one cord solution for certain situations.

I have the Arcam AVR300 receiver. I chose it specifically because I preferred the audio quality. I forget which DAC it uses, but it's not the Burr-Brown's that Denon and Pioneer often use. Something like Cirrus Logic, forgive my poor memory. So, if only my Arcam had HDMI, I'd love to use it's DAC's for CD playback as it would take a really expensive DVD player to equal or better them. Good as the Outlaw's and others like them may be, the "megabucks" spent on my Arcam were well worth it to me. I've had years of satisfaction from it, and as mentioned before, it's the kind of thing that reveals itself over time, continually increasing enjoyment. ( That is until you're ready for an upgrade ;)

There's a lot more to audio quality than just the DAC used but I do agree with swestbom that the BB 1796 is superior to the Cirrus logic DAC used in the 980 and presumably in the 983 but not just based on specs. I have a Zhaolu 2.5C DAC with a Zapfilter installed that is based on Cirrus Logic's flagship DAC, the 4398 and it does give the 1796 an easy run for the gold. It's excellent. The Zapfilter discrete output stage makes the difference.

However, back on topic, here is a post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12716247&postcount=20 by Ric Shultz that I would take as gospel. If you don't know Ric, he's one of the folks that mods DVD players etc. for the high end audiophile folks that demand only the best. He has an impeccable reputation and offers mods for the 980. He clearly states that the DV58AV is the best *stock* player he's heard using the analog outs.

That brings up a pet peeve for me. HDMI sucks and is only used to prevent copying. HDMI turns your DVD player into a transport rather than a true playback device. It is not a superior method or does it provide better quality audio. The DAC's implementation in receivers will not be the equal of a well designed dedicated playback component. If you think it is, you either have a crappy DVD (audio) or you've spent megabucks on a receiver that would have bought a lot better sound quality investing in excellent quality separates from Emotiva, Outlaw or similar value companies.

Sorry for the rant but I continually read about the problems people are having with equipment when using HDMI and I wonder why they're doing it.

HTH

Jim

Good point about separates. I have a hunch that most (maybe a lot) on AVS probably won't be using the DAC in the player. I just wish that OPPO would output 176.4 for SACD to hold me over till I get a DSD compatible processor.

Here's Ric's website. http://www.tweakaudio.com/index.html There's contact info there.

Jim

Thank You...Looks like he has some really cool mod's for the Oppo's...and making them better for sound & audio is very appealing to me...


Mac

There's a lot more to audio quality than just the DAC used but I do agree with swestbom that the BB 1796 is superior to the Cirrus logic DAC used in the 980 and presumably in the 983 but not just based on specs. I have a Zhaolu 2.5C DAC with a Zapfilter installed that is based on Cirrus Logic's flagship DAC, the 4398 and it does give the 1796 an easy run for the gold. It's excellent. The Zapfilter discrete output stage makes the difference.

However, back on topic, here is a post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12716247&postcount=20 by Ric Shultz that I would take as gospel. If you don't know Ric, he's one of the folks that mods DVD players etc. for the high end audiophile folks that demand only the best. He has an impeccable reputation and offers mods for the 980. He clearly states that the DV58AV is the best *stock* player he's heard using the analog outs.

That brings up a pet peeve for me. HDMI sucks and is only used to prevent copying. HDMI turns your DVD player into a transport rather than a true playback device. It is not a superior method or does it provide better quality audio. The DAC's implementation in receivers will not be the equal of a well designed dedicated playback component. If you think it is, you either have a crappy DVD (audio) or you've spent megabucks on a receiver that would have bought a lot better sound quality investing in excellent quality separates from Emotiva, Outlaw or similar value companies.

Sorry for the rant but I continually read about the problems people are having with equipment when using HDMI and I wonder why they're doing it.

HTH

Jim

OK...I'm convinced that in stock form the 58AV most likely has superior analog audio output compared to the 983, although no one has actually heard the 983 yet. But let's recall what started this whaling and gnashing of teeth...i.e. someone wishing for no analog audio output at all.

Here is a suggestion. Since this player seems to be entirely about video performance for a very flawed medium (interlaced DVDs) rather than offer compromised audio and analog outputs for video skip the audio DACs entirely and only have an HDMI output. Let's face it all the work that goes into scaling and de-interlacing is because DVDs were designed around 1950s technology (NTSC video).

As I see it, the 983 has the potential for better video, decent analog audio out, with the option to have even better analog out with Ric Schultz mods.

On the other hand, if your looking for the best bang for your buck for analog SACD/DVD-A playback with video only a secondary consideration, the 58AV just may be the answer.

On the other hand, if your looking for the best bang for your buck for analog SACD/DVD-A playback with video only a secondary consideration, the 58AV just may be the answer.

Take a look at these two posts from miata a couple of pages back in this thread. They are related to the quality of the video processing in the Elite Kuros:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12923749&postcount=1151
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12936201#post12936201

If (completely unknown at this point) the 58AV has the same video processing as the Kuro line then its video is not secondary. It compares favorably to the Reon processing in the XA2 Toshiba HD DVD player.

I hope this Oppo player is released sooner rather than later. The more time that goes by a $350 or $500 price tag looks bigger to me.

Here is a link to a poll (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=952854) I did with fairly limited participation. I welcome anybody to add a post to the thread to get it back on top.

Here are a few other links from various threads in the Kuro owners and settings threads in the flat panel plasma forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12496575#post12496575

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12439649&postcount=10014

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12288288&postcount=9430

To be honest, I think that there will be personal preferences between the the OPPO 480i and the HD-XA2. The first time I compared the XA2 had a noticeably more refined image. After ISF calibration, I did a more objective comparison with test discs and the TV's processing beat the XA2. This is looking at things like resolution patterns and the non-torture HQV tests. With very good film based material I may even have a slight subjective preference for the HD-XA2. However, after considering the other advantages of OPPO I decided to make it my primary player. The OPPO is much faster, provides more display options in the TV and player, is region-free and works properly with all menus in 1080p/72fps 3:3 pulldown PureCinema mode. (The XA2 does not properly display many DVD menus in 1080p/24fps mode even with the latest firmware.) I'm not saying that everybody will like the 480i image more than the XA2 upscaled image. You have to see for yourself.

That being said, I will be all eyes and ears when the OPPO 983 reviews come out.

Thanks for the information, it was really helpful!

The Kuros 6010 is on my future purchase short list and this is something that could put it over the edge when I pull the trigger. However, I do have the patience to wait for CableCard 2.0 equiped TV's too.

Thanks again!

I had Pioneer's top of the line DVD player two tears ago. I forget the model number, something 9000? It cost around 2k, but I wanted the best DVD player with the best audio, so... I absolutely loved the CD playback, it trounced the opposition, but video pq was a distant second to the Denon 3910 which I also had, so I got rid of the Pioneer, then sold the Denon for the OPPO. The Oppo has significantly better dialogue reproduction than the Denon. I do miss the amazing Pioneer CD/SACD playback, but the OPPO sounds better than the mighty 4X more expensive Denon 3910 did, so I accepted its "limitations" and have been happy with performance ever since.

Take a look at these two posts from miata a couple of pages back in this thread. They are related to the quality of the video processing in the Elite Kuros:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12923749&postcount=1151
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12936201#post12936201

If (completely unknown at this point) the 58AV has the same video processing as the Kuro line then its video is not secondary. It compares favorably to the Reon processing in the XA2 Toshiba HD DVD player.

Yes...good point. Although I think we're both speculating until we know more. And let's not forget the multi-region/PAL capabilities of the Oppo.

I hope this Oppo player is released sooner rather than later. The more time that goes by a $350 or $500 price tag looks bigger to me.

I agree. Oppo might find themselves with some stiff competition and have to adjust their price accordingly.

OK...I'm convinced that in stock form the 58AV most likely has superior analog audio output compared to the 983, although no one has actually heard the 983 yet. But let's recall what started this whaling and gnashing of teeth...i.e. someone wishing for no analog audio output at all.



I wouldn't say that no one hasn't actual heard these players...although I am sure you meant the general public...yes..?;)


I agree. Oppo might find themselves with some stiff competition and have to adjust their price accordingly.

How do you figure this? What player will be equivalent to the 983 and the chip sets it has inside...for $350....?

Mac

I wouldn't say that no one hasn't actual heard these players...although I am sure you meant the general public...yes..?;)

Well, I believe you know what I meant, but to be clear, a few well respected reviewers that have spent some time with actual shipping examples. :)




How do you figure this? What player will be equivalent to the 983 and the chip sets it has inside...for $350....?

Mac

I think you want to discuss this with KramerTC. ;)

Seriously, does anyone know what chip sets are in the 58AV?

Well, I believe you know what I meant, but to be clear, a few well respected reviewers that have spent some time with actual shipping examples. :)






I think you want to discuss this with KramerTC. ;)

Seriously, does anyone know what chip sets are in the 58AV?

I was just foolin about with you...on the testing aspect of them that is.....and from what I recollect has been said about them by those who actually have listened to them and saw their performance way back to the beginning here...the 983 will "stomp" the 59AVi unit...not only in price...but in performance as well...if this is the player I think your alluding to...so...I'd still like to know which if any player folks feel will be able to compete head to head with this one...

The availability to have these units modded as well as the 59AVi's takes them to a whole different arena for sound Since the 970/980 can be modded to surpass what Oppo offers...I wonder if these new 983's will get the same treatment...or if it will be needed...Wouldn't that be something...

Mac

I was just foolin about with you...on the testing aspect of them that is.....and from what I recollect has been said about them by those who actually have listened to them and saw their performance way back to the beginning here...the 983 will "stomp" the 59AVi unit...not only in price...but in performance as well...if this is the player I think your alluding to...so...I'd still like to know which if any player folks feel will be able to compete head to head with this one...

The availability to have these units modded as well as the 59AVi's takes them to a whole different arena for sound Since the 970/980 can be modded to surpass what Oppo offers...I wonder if these new 983's will get the same treatment...or if it will be needed...Wouldn't that be something...

Mac

Did you mean the 58AV or the 59AVi?

Did you mean the 58AV or the 59AVi?

The 59 AVi..and I am saying this based on what I have read...here and elsewhere about the unit as a whole..not just on audio alone..My understanding is the 59 AV has better audio for the analog outs on it..This is considering the price factor as well...Which is why I am anxiously waiting for the 983...and to the future mods than can be done on it..since it will be close to the price of the 59 AV then.. Since the stated price point will be below $350-$400 on it...going with some of Ric's upgrades if offered seems to me to be a very good solution to get a complete package for not only video...but audio as well

Mac

I was just foolin about with you...on the testing aspect of them that is.....and from what I recollect has been said about them by those who actually have listened to them and saw their performance way back to the beginning here...the 983 will "stomp" the 59AVi unit...not only in price...but in performance as well...if this is the player I think your alluding to...so...I'd still like to know which if any player folks feel will be able to compete head to head with this one...

The availability to have these units modded as well as the 59AVi's takes them to a whole different arena for sound Since the 970/980 can be modded to surpass what Oppo offers...I wonder if these new 983's will get the same treatment...or if it will be needed...Wouldn't that be something...

Mac

I think it was Neuromancer that said the 983 will stomp the 59avi... the 59avi is better than the 980 in sound quality through analog outputs. Video is very close. I didn't spend much time comparing video once I determined that the 980 would not replace my 59avi as a SACD/DVD-A player (and I wanted it to). So at least in the analog side the 983 will not stomp the 59avi.

My comment about the $350 price tag was in reference to paying that kind of price on a std DVD player this late in the game. I recently bought a Sharp BR player for less than that. I know its apples to oranges but money is money.

I agree. Oppo might find themselves with some stiff competition and have to adjust their price accordingly.

Yes and no. Yes if they want to make the product more mainstream. No in the sense that OPPO is trying to sell hundreds, not thousands of product. The main point of the DV-983H is to further solidify OPPO as a premium brand.

OPPO does not want to sell this player to your mom; they want to sell it to the truly dedicated enthusiast. They are more than willing to take low sales for brand building.

So, this player uses an ABT deinterlacer and scaler, is this better than Realta ?

Yes and no. Yes if they want to make the product more mainstream. No in the sense that OPPO is trying to sell hundreds, not thousands of product. The main point of the DV-983H is to further solidify OPPO as a premium brand.

OPPO does not want to sell this player to your mom; they want to sell it to the truly dedicated enthusiast. They are more than willing to take low sales for brand building.

I'm hoping that all you say is true. Further, it's why I hope that not only the video is outstanding, but the audio is too. And to guard against obsolescence and provide options down the road, it would be worthwhile to have the capability to send DSD over HDMI. I want it all baby! :D

Neuro,

Did you get to do any comparisons this weekend?

No. Ended up spending the weekend organizing my physical video-game and movie library, organizing my PC video/MP3 collection, and going to a couple of parties.

I did not even get around to watching the movies I had rented through NetFlix, let alone do some AB testing.

Thank You...Looks like he has some really cool mod's for the Oppo's...and making them better for sound & audio is very appealing to me...


Mac
Interesting that the topic of mods has now arisen in persuit of the 'perfect' DV-983. This is something I've long been tracking and thinking about for my DV-981, but always wondered if something would follow it. So now it seems that the DV-983 is the swansong, I would be very interested to hear what those much more technically savvy than I, think about the modders offer.

Ric's offer looks great. However I've been also been tracking the folk at Reference Audio Mods who have a lot to say about their Oppo experience and can claim a few testimonials.

http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=Oppo_Units&Category_Code=MODS&Product_Count=37

Their service is more expensive than Rics, so my question is how do others rate the components and scope of service each provide? Or for that matter any other modders out there with a track record.

Any views most welcome.

After looking at both mod websites listed, I am also very interested in the real world benefits of such an expensive upgrade. Anyone who has had any experience with this, I'd love to hear from you. Pete

After looking at both mod websites listed, I am also very interested in the real world benefits of such an expensive upgrade. Anyone who has had any experience with this, I'd love to hear from you. Pete

+1

I am going to buy a 980 or 983 as a region free DVD player primarily. I would be interested if there are any improvements in the audio sections over previous players. There seems to be a few others interested in the audio of the 983.

SOUND QUALITY compared to 971

981 = slightly better
970 = much better
980 = better than the 970
983 = maybe slightly better than the 980, but not much if any

This is a useful comparison, but unfortunately doesn't say much for the 983's quality. if you look at John Atkinson's measurements and comments about the 970 at Stereophile. The measurements are poor and if you are unfamiliar with JA's writing style, let me tell you, for him, this is a very critical assessment. So I would be extremely surprised if the 983 will be a superior audio player. (As I've already said, that's not why I'm buying it. I already have a more than adequate audio setup.)

For anyone who is considering a modified player, I would strongly advise against it. Been there, done that. Resale, warranty issues and such like mean it doesn't make sense (to me at least). The Oppo is not designed as an audio player, so there would be better starting points anyway. Buy a second hand Benchmark DAC or quality player.

If you have the technical ability to make such alterations yourself then that is a completely different story.

Such blastfemy for a first time poster badboygolf16v. :D
The 980 has already been proven to be a great improvement over the 970 in audio quality.
In general, the Oppo players are top performers as audio players for their pricepoint.
The 983 primarily is concentrating on improvement in the picture quality department. The audio quality will be in line with the 980, with few changes.

Such blastfemy for a first time poster badboygolf16v. :D
The 980 has already been proven to be a great improvement over the 970 in audio quality.
In general, the Oppo players are top performers as audio players for their pricepoint.
The 983 primarily is concentrating on improvement in the picture quality department. The audio quality will be in line with the 980, with few changes.

Can you be more specific on how the 980 is a "great improvement" in sound quality over the 970? I have the 970 but only play cd's, not sacd,dvd-a.

Can you be more specific on how the 980 is a "great improvement" in sound quality over the 970? I have the 970 but only play cd's, not sacd,dvd-a.

Your inquiry should be addressed much better in the 980 thread. All your questions can be answered just by reading there. (Sorry for my lack of effort, I'm not feeling so well today and have my 1 & 3 yr old sons to contribute too :))

Looks like we lost a good # of posts.

Recap what I posted/responses:

Oppo is likely to maybe put notice of 983 sale about a week ahead of time (maybe). See this thread for information.

Looks like we lost a good # of posts.

Recap what I posted/responses:

Oppo is likely to maybe put notice of 983 sale about a week ahead of time (maybe). See this thread for information.

Latest timeframe for release?

Latest timeframe for release?

The posts I had / responses were all about the "how" we'd get the release info.

1) no notice, just bam it's for sale. 2) a notice it's available in a week or so. 3) a good time frame forcasted now till then. (say "Last half of Feb" as an example).

The response I got was the you'll likely get the one week before (not knowing when though) notice of Sale (maybe pre-orders). Find out through this thread.

I'd love to have a timeframe though, if possible.

Latest timeframe for release?


The posts I had / responses were all about the "how" we'd get the release info.

1) no notice, just bam it's for sale. 2) a notice it's available in a week or so. 3) a good time frame forcasted now till then. (say "Last half of Feb" as an example).

The response I got was the you'll likely get the one week before (not knowing when though) notice of Sale (maybe pre-orders). Find out through this thread.

I'd love to have a timeframe though, if possible.


Oppo doesn't like to give release dates. As soon as it is ready/done, it will go up for sale... that's all there is to it. They may possibly start taking orders about a week before shipping, but that is just speculation.

Oppo doesn't like to give release dates. As soon as it is ready/done, it will go up for sale... that's all there is to it. They may possibly start taking orders about a week before shipping, but that is just speculation.You have to watch Oppo's web pages (http://www.oppodigital.com/?partner=111), they will display new product, and say they are taking orders, and give so many days/weeks before player will ship. Online retailers are delayed sometimes 3 to 4 weeks beyond when product is available directly from Oppo.

Oppo is likely to maybe put notice of 983 sale about a week ahead of time (maybe). See this thread for information.

"is likely to maybe".....Nice.

"is likely to maybe".....Nice.

Good grammar huh? Well 4 months of vague and moving target unknowns on the release weighted heavily on my mind when I wrote that statement... :cool: :D

BTW I believe I just wrote a few more grammerical errors with this post... Good thing I don't make a living by writing. :)

Thats ok, you might of just come up with a new oxymoron. Anyway ive jotted it down beside

"Now, Then......."
"All The Way Through A Portion"
"Can I Ask You A Question?" &
"You cannot know anything for sure"

However, back on topic, here is a post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12716247&postcount=20 by Ric Shultz that I would take as gospel. If you don't know Ric, he's one of the folks that mods DVD players etc. for the high end audiophile folks that demand only the best. He has an impeccable reputation and offers mods for the 980. He clearly states that the DV58AV is the best *stock* player he's heard using the analog outs.

Looks like according to Ric the 980H is no slouch either:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13039489#post13039489

You buy the Oppo for video and great sound. You buy the Pioneer because you want to mod it to make it sound way incredible...The sound of the stock Oppo is very clear (probably more so then the stock Pioneer) but the Pioneer has greater sound tweaking potential with its better DAC.

According to Oppo .. 983 is still targeted to be released this month or next month..

you might of just come up with a new oxymoron. That should read... "you might have just come up with a new oxymoron".

Gary

According to Oppo .. 983 is still targeted to be released this month or next month..

We hope you wrote this November of 2007--:rolleyes:

We hope you wrote this November of 2007--:rolleyes:

:confused:???:confused:

Not really sure what you're implying there. Anyway below is the e-mail sent to me by Oppo after inquiring about their 983.

The release date is still scheduled for this month or next month. No concrete date has been established.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119


We hope you wrote this November of 2007--:rolleyes:

it was a joke....... if you wrote it November- we would have it by now.. in a month or two.............
db

It sounds like this OPPO player is a few years too late for me.

certainly seems a long time coming ....

I think this player would have been a MASSIVE hit mid December ... but times have a changed

It sounds like this OPPO player is a few years too late for me.

I don't know about all that. I was starting to think that somewhat myself. I was trying to wait out the HighDef game till later this year, but in December my curiosity got the best of me and I went ahead and got my feet wet with an HD-DVD player. Now I am sucked into the HDM VORTEX and am miserable as hell.
Most of the HDM players are not even up to spec and have more trouble than it should ever be worth. The players are glorified beta machines and are very expensive. All the mud-slinging from the BR fanboys, WB and Paramount flip-flopping all over the place... it's just a big mess. I would not reccomend it for anyone.
A lot of people (like me) have invested a lot of time and money into their SD-dvd collections, and the 983 is going to help make them look the best they ever can. I am going to be watching many of my sd-dvds for a long time to come and the 983 is going to be what drives them. There are quite a few features on the 983 that will be very valuable to some people at this players pricepoint.
To be totally honest, I think the 983 is coming late in the game, but how many games have been won in the final minutes... ;):).

Yeah, there are many discouraging factors at this stage in the HDM market. The HD optical formats will probably never see many great cinematic classics or obscure films that only a company like Criterion will touch. This in mind, I definitely don't see the Oppo 983 as being too late for those enthusiasts who want a top-notch DVD player, but don't want to spend much more on a different player or outboard video processor of similar quality.

While I am seizing the opportunity to view some great movies in the best picture and sound quality only available on HD optical, I realize that SD DVD will have the vastly superior library for quite some time.

It sounds like this OPPO player is a few years too late for me.

You are not their market.

Seriously, the DV-983H is geared specifically for the elite; for the people who demand the most out of dedicated equipment. No others need apply.

You are not their market.

Seriously, the DV-983H is geared specifically for the elite; for the people who demand the most out of dedicated equipment. No others need apply.

:D:D:D

You are not their market.

Seriously, the DV-983H is geared specifically for the elite; for the people who demand the most out of dedicated equipment. No others need apply.

If that's the case - and I believe you - then frankly, I don't see why OPPO apparently has set an "affordable" target price for it that may compromise quality.

Did you happen to notice a report on the AP recently on wine tasting? It was in the newspapers I read. Here's a brief clip with a link here http://www.boxwines.org/articles/expensive-wine-tastes-better.htm

... neuroscientists at Stanford and Caltech found that wine that the drinker thought cost more activated the brain’s pleasure center to a higher degree than the exact same wine with a cheaper price. In short, the identical wine tasted better with a higher price tag...


I read some years ago that the same theory applies to tuition at elitist colleges. Cost equates to quality among the parents who can afford to send their kids to such places.

I have read prior posts on this thread that suggest OPPO isn't willing to go all the way with quality, that it wants the 983 to be the best at a price that's below "better brands."

That may be counter-productive for elitists. But, then, I wouldn't really know.

Dana

You are not their market.

Seriously, the DV-983H is geared specifically for the elite; for the people who demand the most out of dedicated equipment. No others need apply.

I am just a Untermenschen, but being a status conscious untermenschen I will just have to buy this thing to prove I am worthy, especially if it comes with a key fob or other highly visible sign of ownership that I can wear prominently so everyone can be aware of my immense wealth and impecable taste :) Good grief, it is $300 to 400, not $3000 to $4000! Not a big deal for those of us who haven't been living on debt and not facing foreclosure on our McMansion homes full of stuff. Seriously though, I may yet get this over the dv-58av if I switch to a receiver that handles DSD well, despite ithe 983's inferior audio DACs (moot point for DSD over HDMI).

I don't particularly like buying cheap equipment only to have it end up in a landfill a few years later, $300 to $400 still seems pretty darn inexpensive to me if the build quality is good, considering my vastly inferior 2002 DV-47ai (except for audio, really quite good for that) from Pioneer cost 3 times that and I have to sit through those stupid copyright warnings.

I rarely buy any disks other than SACDs any more since HD audio over the internet is rare and mostly stereo only where you can find it. I do have several hundred DVDs but stopped buying them because I also have a public library with several thousand titles now that is down the street from me and there are few titles I would want to keep. This means lots of DVD viewing for the near future.

Because of nascent HD video internet streaming, I suspect the Blu-Ray market will make the SACD market look like a mainstream success story in a few years (from the business P and L standpoint I think it will be a big loser in other words). So again, if the price is right and the build quality is there why not?

I might use a Blu-Ray burner to back up my hard drives though.

If that's the case - and I believe you - then frankly, I don't see why OPPO apparently has set an "affordable" target price for it that may compromise quality.

Did you happen to notice a report on the AP recently on wine tasting? It was in the newspapers I read. Here's a brief clip with a link here http://www.boxwines.org/articles/expensive-wine-tastes-better.htm



I read some years ago that the same theory applies to tuition at elitist colleges. Cost equates to quality among the parents who can afford to send their kids to such places.

I have read prior posts on this thread that suggest OPPO isn't willing to go all the way with quality, that it wants the 983 to be the best at a price that's below "better brands."

That may be counter-productive for elitists. But, then, I wouldn't really know.

Dana
Thunderbird is my preferred vintner, hints of shoe polish combined with the smell of bums who haven't bathed in weeks decamped at a subway platform, austere yet fetching, complex yet brawny, never cloying a lively nose, clean finish. http://www.bumwine.com/tbird.html :) You can do really well with wines in the $10 to $20 range and miss out on nothing (okay, maybe a little complexity and body), especially if you can put them in a cellar for a few years with some of the reds with lots of tannins, even then you can sometimes cheat by just opening the bottle a few hours earlier and letting the tannins break down through oxidation.

The education analogy is true only to a certain degree. Sadly most colleges are very mediocre at best with small islands of good faculty and students who are engaged, many are a waste of time and money and only care about the money they get. The really sad part is many of the kids going to these places don't seem to care and just want a piece of paper (they get what they put into it, not much). I have interviewed lots of this type (if they even make it past a resume screen), they get a rude awakening when they go after good jobs. Technology jobs are filled with foreigners not just because they are cheaper but because they are prepared.

It is true that mom and dad send their kids to Harvard for connections and finishing as well as a formal education (hate those types on principle, but their parents pay the bills). They are just being smart, even if mom and dad have been divorced and remarried many times and I wouldn't trust them with my piggie bank on a bet (how do you think they got that money?), their kids will do better on average if they take advantage of what it and its alumni have to offer.

The school has more money than most countries because of it and you can get a first class education where you will be challenged past what you think your breaking point is but put back on your feet when you fall or reach out for help (TAs who know their stuff available at all hours, phenomenal talent in the faculty ranks). The place is far more rigorous than 99% of other schools and produces a great product, it should because it can pick the best going in (legacies and big doner's kids aside). You can also slide through with some of the gut degrees (masters from the school of education anyone?). Cal Tech and MIT will tear your heart out and serve it to you on a platter if you don't work your tail off and still might if you don't have what it takes, but you will get every pennies worth of money spent and then some out of those schools. There are many others that are worth it, some are relatively cheap and good even, just way too many that are not cheap or good.

I like good honest products designed by companies that do their best work on a budget (like Oppo) and don't try to fool you with packaging. Any competent fool can make something better by ignoring cost but it is much harder with real world constraints. Thanks Oppo.

You are not their market.

Seriously, the DV-983H is geared specifically for the elite; for the people who demand the most out of dedicated equipment. No others need apply.


Wow, what a crass attitude. :rolleyes: I'm sure this will guarantee that the machines will go flying off the shelves. Marketing genuis.

And as for a 600 dollar dvd player being considered elite....please. The cartridge on my Linn LP12 is 3x that price.

Wow, what a crass attitude. :rolleyes: I'm sure this will guarantee that the machines will go flying off the shelves. Marketing genuis.

And as for a 600 dollar dvd player being considered elite....please. The cartridge on my Linn LP12 is 3x that price.

i suppose it sounds a little better than my used akai direct drive turntable (w a.t. cartridge even!) i paid $12:eek: for in a thrift shop 2 years ago.

:D

It sounds like this OPPO player is a few years too late for me.

Even though the format war is coming to a close very soon, I still see value for those who want to maximize DVD with the 983 as it will take years - if ever - before certain titles reach BD. I'm just curious how well it can compare against Reon based players, etc. I imagine it will be nearly as good as that would be good enough for me.

Thunderbird is my preferred vintner, hints of shoe polish combined with the smell of bums who haven't bathed in weeks decamped at a subway platform, austere yet fetching, complex yet brawny, never cloying a lively nose, clean finish. http://www.bumwine.com/tbird.html :) You can do really well with wines in the $10 to $20 range and miss out on nothing (okay, maybe a little complexity and body), especially if you can put them in a cellar for a few years with some of the reds with lots of tannins, even then you can sometimes cheat by just opening the bottle a few hours earlier and letting the tannins break down through oxidation.
The education analogy is true only to a certain degree. Sadly most colleges are very mediocre at best with small islands of good faculty and students who are engaged, many are a waste of time and money and only care about the money they get. The really sad part is many of the kids going to these places don't seem to care and just want a piece of paper (they get what they put into it, not much). I have interviewed lots of this type (if they even make it past a resume screen), they get a rude awakening when they go after good jobs. Technology jobs are filled with foreigners not just because they are cheaper but because they are prepared.

It is true that mom and dad send their kids to Harvard for connections and finishing as well as a formal education (hate those types on principle, but their parents pay the bills). They are just being smart, even if mom and dad have been divorced and remarried many times and I wouldn't trust them with my piggie bank on a bet (how do you think they got that money?), their kids will do better on average if they take advantage of what it and its alumni have to offer.

The school has more money than most countries because of it and you can get a first class education where you will be challenged past what you think your breaking point is but put back on your feet when you fall or reach out for help (TAs who know their stuff available at all hours, phenomenal talent in the faculty ranks). The place is far more rigorous than 99% of other schools and produces a great product, it should because it can pick the best going in (legacies and big doner's kids aside). You can also slide through with some of the gut degrees (masters from the school of education anyone?). Cal Tech and MIT will tear your heart out and serve it to you on a platter if you don't work your tail off and still might if you don't have what it takes, but you will get every pennies worth of money spent and then some out of those schools. There are many others that are worth it, some are relatively cheap and good even, just way too many that are not cheap or good.

I like good honest products designed by companies that do their best work on a budget (like Oppo) and don't try to fool you with packaging. Any competent fool can make something better by ignoring cost but it is much harder with real world constraints. Thanks Oppo.


Yes, right now I am especially fond of the Argentinian Malbecs, some excellent ones in the $10 to $15 range.

I have over 400 SD DVDs, not including about 150 concert DVDs. This player, or something similarly priced, is a must have for me, as many will not be released in Hi Def, and at the prices being charged, I don't want to double dip anyway. Real question for me becomes will the ABT solution beat the internal processing in the 9th generation Pioneers released this summer. Based on Anchor bays existing reputation along with OPPOs, I think it will.

John

You are not their market.

Seriously, the DV-983H is geared specifically for the elite; for the people who demand the most out of dedicated equipment. No others need apply.

Seeing that Aaron owns a DVDO VP50, I guess that would classify him as part of the super elite? :D

In all seriousness, the Oppo 983 is geared towards the well-educated enthusiast who also happens to be budget-conscious.

I'm just curious how well it can compare against Reon based players, etc. I imagine it will be nearly as good as that would be good enough for me.

I would imagine that the 983 is better than any Reon-based player in numerous aspects. Speed, layer change, and deinterlacing performance are all areas that I'm sure the Oppo will excel at. The Toshiba XA2 is bad with layer changes, while the Denon 2930 is rather slow in response. It seems that every Reon-based player compromises on something that Oppo players have traditionally handled well.

After witnessing myself what the ABT102 deinterlacer can do in my VP30, I am a big believer in this player. The auto mode in the ABT102 has literally shown no problems in correctly handling anything I've thrown at it. The Reon in my Denon is extremely limited in comparison. I put DVDO's evaluation DVD in the Denon, and the Reon struggled with almost every deinterlacing stress test on there.

If competent edge enhancement and noise reduction adjustments are important to you, then a Reon-based player would have the advantage in that regard.

Seeing that Aaron owns a DVDO VP50, I guess that would classify him as part of the super elite? :D

No, I would classify him as a redundant customer. If he has a VP50 already, then the DV-980H as a transport is already the better solution.

Wow, what a crass attitude. :rolleyes:

Sorry if I sounded crass, I am just tired of people posting in this thread with a lot of should-have arguments. There is no possibility for OPPO to release this product in the past. All arguments about how much it would have sold in the past is irrelevant.

So are the arguments about its potential price being a factor. OPPO is not competing with Blu-Ray or HD DVD. They are competing for the best DVD player you can purchase.

I'm sure this will guarantee that the machines will go flying off the shelves. Marketing genuis.

I have also said this multiple times in the past. OPPO is not looking at selling these in the thousands. The purpose of this machine is to give the truly dedicated the best bang for their buck.

Beyond this the player is a marketing tent pole. If they can pull of THE must buy DVD player, OPPO thereby differentiates themselves from all the other manufacturers on the market. For a young company like OPPO, brand name is more important than financial gains. If OPPO was concerned about money, they would have gone the Cyberhome or Acer route years ago, or at least reduce the price of their current DVD players.

And as for a 600 dollar dvd player being considered elite....please.

I never said the player was elite; I said the end user needed to be elite. That is, this player does not apply to people who are not truly dedicated about standard definition DVD playback.

If that's the case - and I believe you - then frankly, I don't see why OPPO apparently has set an "affordable" target price for it that may compromise quality.

OPPO does not have the brand clout or the esoteric following required. When you think of OPPO, what is the first image that comes to mind: affordable quality. OPPO can't feasibly release a product for $500+ and not get some major backlash from the community. Their brand image is not to the height required for premium pricing.

Beyond that, none of the OPPO products have ever felt truly high-end. They are great machines, but they lack the industrial design and UI of a tryly high-end product. OPPOs internal engineering is top notch; aesthetics are not.

Part of a products price is about perception, and the OPPO products are perceived as affordable.

re: classics not being released on hi-def. i bet to differ. i'm banking on the fact that most of the classics i luv watching will be coming to HD.

as an example the Seventh Seal is already released in Europe on Blu-Ray.

re: classics not being released on hi-def. i bet to differ. i'm banking on the fact that most of the classics i luv watching will be coming to HD.

as an example the Seventh Seal is already released in Europe on Blu-Ray.

Those type of titles won't be here for a long time... IMO.

I don't know about all that. I was starting to think that somewhat myself. I was trying to wait out the HighDef game till later this year, but in December my curiosity got the best of me and I went ahead and got my feet wet with an HD-DVD player. Now I am sucked into the HDM VORTEX and am miserable as hell.
Most of the HDM players are not even up to spec and have more trouble than it should ever be worth. The players are glorified beta machines and are very expensive. All the mud-slinging from the BR fanboys, WB and Paramount flip-flopping all over the place... it's just a big mess. I would not reccomend it for anyone.
A lot of people (like me) have invested a lot of time and money into their SD-dvd collections, and the 983 is going to help make them look the best they ever can. I am going to be watching many of my sd-dvds for a long time to come and the 983 is going to be what drives them. There are quite a few features on the 983 that will be very valuable to some people at this players pricepoint.
To be totally honest, I think the 983 is coming late in the game, but how many games have been won in the final minutes... ;):).

Excellent point of view. I concur.

There is no possibility for OPPO to release this product in the past.

OK, I got a chuckle out of that one. :)

I never said the player was elite; I said the end user needed to be elite. That is, this player does not apply to people who are not truly dedicated about standard definition DVD playback.

Gosh...I've never felt a home with the Elite crowd before...and I certainly don't consider myself an Elitist by no means...but...I guess we all have to become one to just enjoy a great picture from our SD collection and to have the right to own one of these players......:p:p

Cheerio, pip pip...and all that rot ehh...;);):D

Just kidding......I've never thought of myself being Elite for wanting the best from my SD collection at a modest price...I think of these Oppos as being a sleeper...Like a few of the cars we all know that don't scream out Look At Me...I go really really fast & am really really loud Officer......but more like...:eek::eek: when you tromp the pedal down...all that they see is your tail light quickly fading from view...since damn few can keep up with you...The loud gasp...of total shock & dis-belief on their faces knowing full well they are thinking...that just blew me away??? You got to be kidding me...and it cost How Much...:eek: See...It's all about being under the hood...tucked away out of sight...ready to go head to head with others cost far more than your plain wrapped one...and you didn't have to spend top dollar to get it neither...because it was sold to you by a group of folks who wanted you to have the best...for the least...and they didn't need all the flash & name bag on the outside driving up cost...

There's a few A/V products like this I am finding out about...those so-called niche items...those that their performance belies all reasoning for their modest cost...If finding these things puts me in an Elite group of performance for less individuals...then I gladly will accept this status...and do my best to remain in good standing with all of my fellow Oppo Elitist...

Mac

Middle of February now, what's the latest?

Remember the intro to "My Three Sons"? Imagine my toe tapping just like that.

Oppo told me the other day the 983 would be released "before April."

I read "April" and thought my head was going to explode.... I've wanted to wait things out for the 983 so long now but if the PS3 goes on a 1/2 price sale (I'm talking crazy talk) I'm likely to buckle.

Middle of February now, what's the latest?

No later than March 31st is what I hear.

No later than March 31st is what I hear.Are there any more updates relative to the design? Is the form factor still very close to the 980H?

By the time Oppo ships the 983H, HD-DVD might have totally fizzled! ;)

Are there any more updates relative to the design? Is the form factor still very close to the 980H?Form factor is the same but the control layout on the front panel is different and the number of logos across the top has increased. :D

More I cannot say.

...and the number of logos across the top has increased. :D

More I cannot say.


We can only guess what that means,now I'm feeling "blu".;)

We can only guess what that means,now I'm feeling "blu".;)

Nah, I'm thinking logos=ABT

Nah, I'm thinking logos=ABTOr, rather, VRS.

LOL to the last several posts. :D:D:D
Guaranteed though, no BR and no HD.

LOL to the last several posts. :D:D:D
Guaranteed though, no BR and no HD.At least no HD! :D

At least no HD! :D
It would be cool if they "threw" that in though.:cool:

Hopefully one of the logos is FLAC.

iie. MTK doesn't have that support, and OPPO did not bother laying on another DAP into the chain.

I'm hoping the new 983 has "Progressive Cadence Detection". If it can display 1080p/24 better than an XA2 can then I would buy this in a heartbeat. I like how DVDs look at 24 fps, but I think there is room for improvement. Some of them are improved, while some look too soft. I guess it obviously depends on the transfer in the end. I emailed Oppo also and I was told, "no later than March 31" for release and no preorders.

I'm hoping the new 983 has "Progressive Cadence Detection". If it can display 1080p/24 better than an XA2 can then I would buy this in a heartbeat. I like how DVDs look at 24 fps, but I think there is room for improvement. Some of them are improved, while some look too soft. I guess it obviously depends on the transfer in the end. I emailed Oppo also and I was told, "no later than March 31" for release and no preorders.

I think this player won't output at 24fps

I think this player won't output at 24fps

yet

24Hz can be accomplished through a software solution. However, this is not an ideal solution as the software will be cadence based. That is, you will notice judder when the cadence is not locked or changes. Ie. you completely negate the benefits of 24Hz.

24Hz can be accomplished through a software solution. However, this is not an ideal solution as the software will be cadence based. That is, you will notice judder when the cadence is not locked or changes. Ie. you completely negate the benefits of 24Hz.

Plus won't a setting or anything that makes the player hickup at cadence changes negate that #1 factor we are all interested it in? The fact that the ABT chipset/solution is so good at handling those changes without a hickup. If I'd throw an option to on that takes that away, might as well have a 980 or some other player already. Am I right?

Your right about 1080/24, not always working with dvds.
During cadence breaks and bad edits you will get judder and combing.
Its sad that the dvd forum put little stock into flawless inverse telecine.

Your right about 1080/24, not always working with dvds.
During cadence breaks and bad edits you will get judder and combing.
Its sad that the dvd forum put little stock into flawless inverse telecine.

Aren't most of the DVDs released these days native 24p on the disc or is everthing 480i/60??:confused:

480i/60Hz. HD DVD and Blu-Ray are almost always 1080i/p 24Hz native.

480i/60Hz. HD DVD and Blu-Ray are almost always 1080i/p 24Hz native.

Interesting.........I realized that most HDM is 1080p/24 but I thought most big hollywood films were stored at 480p/24 on dvd. You may be right and I'm certainly no expert but this is what a Wikipedia article on Telecine says:

On DVDs, telecined material may be either hard telecined, or soft telecined. In the hard-telecined case, video is stored on the DVD at the playback framerate (29.97 frames/sec for NTSC, 25 frames/sec for PAL), using the telecined frames as shown above. In the soft-telecined case, the material is stored on the DVD at the film rate (24 or 23.976 frames/s) in the original progressive format, with special flags inserted into the MPEG-2 video stream that instruct the DVD player to repeat certain fields so as to accomplish the required pulldown during playback.[7] Progressive scan DVD players additionally offer output at 480p by using these flags to duplicate frames rather than fields.

Here's the link to the rest of the page for a good read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecine

I think this player won't output at 24fps


I wasn't saying it does 1080p/24, I just think it would be great if it did. If Anchor Bay uses it then it can't be too bad.


link (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/vrs_technology/pcd.php)

Your right about 1080/24, not always working with dvds.
During cadence breaks and bad edits you will get judder and combing.
Its sad that the dvd forum put little stock into flawless inverse telecine.

DVD has plenty of compromises and was created primarily with interlaced displays in mind. Just be glad we got anamorphic enhancement and player deinterlacing.

Do you guys think that the multi-region hack that works for the other Oppo players will work on this new Oppo, too?

I have plenty of PAL DVDs and was hoping for a one-player solution (ie Blu-Ray and SD-DVD) but it does not look like there is (or will be) a Blu-Ray player that will also do multi-region DVDs.

So I am thinking Oppo for my international SD-DVDs, SACDs and DVD-Audio, and a separate Blu-Ray player for the Hi-Def media.

Do you guys think that the multi-region hack that works for the other Oppo players will work on this new Oppo, too?

I have plenty of PAL DVDs and was hoping for a one-player solution (ie Blu-Ray and SD-DVD) but it does not look like there is (or will be) a Blu-Ray player that will also do multi-region DVDs.

So I am thinking Oppo for my international SD-DVDs, SACDs and DVD-Audio, and a separate Blu-Ray player for the Hi-Def media.

I think the Oppo 983 is already region free. So you shouldn't have any problems playing PAL or NTSC SD-DVDs on it.

Do you guys think that the multi-region hack that works for the other Oppo players will work on this new Oppo, too?

Yes.

-Bill

Do you guys think that the multi-region hack that works for the other Oppo players will work on this new Oppo, too?

I have plenty of PAL DVDs and was hoping for a one-player solution (ie Blu-Ray and SD-DVD) but it does not look like there is (or will be) a Blu-Ray player that will also do multi-region DVDs.

So I am thinking Oppo for my international SD-DVDs, SACDs and DVD-Audio, and a separate Blu-Ray player for the Hi-Def media.

I think the Oppo 983 is already region free. So you shouldn't have any problems playing PAL or NTSC SD-DVDs on it.

Can be made region free just like the 980 can, and plays PAL dvds beautifully.

Aren't most of the DVDs released these days native 24p on the disc or is everthing 480i/60??:confused: I realized that most HDM is 1080p/24 but I thought most big hollywood films were stored at 480p/24 on dvd. You may be right and I'm certainly no expert but this is what a Wikipedia article on Telecine says: Yes, you are correct. Movies from film are usually stored on the DVD as progressive (24p) frames. BUT... since the DVD standard was designed for interlaced output only, the MPEG decoder was designed to output 60Hz interlaced fields, and the flags on the DVD tell the decoder how to create them. The flags are notoriously unreliable at identifying progressive frames, and video material (interlaced) is sometimes edited in, so it would be impossible for an MPEG decoder to do 24p properly.

However, there is a way for the de-interlacer to do frame-rate conversion for 24p output. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12453394#post12453394). The problem is, that when the DVD cadence suddenly changes, the de-interlacer has to compensate, and the 24p output stutters.

Gary

Yes, you are correct. Movies from film are usually stored on the DVD as progressive (24p) frames. BUT... since the DVD standard was designed for interlaced output only, the MPEG decoder was designed to output 60Hz interlaced fields, and the flags on the DVD tell the decoder how to create them. The flags are notoriously unreliable at identifying progressive frames, and video material (interlaced) is sometimes edited in, so it would be impossible for an MPEG decoder to do 24p properly.

However, there is a way for the de-interlacer to do frame-rate conversion for 24p output. See this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12453394#post12453394). The problem is, that when the DVD cadence suddenly changes, the de-interlacer has to compensate, and the 24p output stutters.

Gary

Thanks for the explanation.:D Too bad DVDs weren't designed with 24p in mind, it seems like such a round about way of doing progressive video to take 24 progressive frames then interlace them, then have to de-interlace 'em for progressive output...........DAMN YOU CRT!!!!!

Ok I gave in a wrote an email to Oppo Service. I posed 4 questions starting with release info on the 983 and got the expected same response of no later than March 31.

I did mention that I have a 52" XBR4 and asked if there would be an appreciable differene in the 983 vs either the 981/980. Suprisingly they said there wouldn't be.

Third I mentioned I have a 4 year old DCDi scaler based player and wondered if there'd be an apprecialbe gain going to any 98x player. Of course as I expected they told me of improved mathematics (accuracy) and I already new that I wanted a player without a noticable layer change. (the 1.75 sec change in the Zenith 318 is bad)

Lastly I asked for them to recommend between only the current 980 and 981. The suggested the 980.

This is exemplifies why Oppo is an amazing company. First I got the email response within 1-2 hours. Secondly they did not try to stear me into the 983 (most expensive) even though I mentioned I have been awaiting it's release. The actually did the opposite and recommended their cheapest player (of the 98x series). How many companies do that?

-- Just because this correspondence did get me wondering why I'm awaiting the 983 doesn't mean I'm not still holding out for it's release. I just might wait till someone does a review of it or gets a review on "Secrets of HT" benchmark.

What I am really thinking is: What is it with the 983 that makes it Kris's "best player of 2007" over the 980 and are the differences (to 980/981) limited to displays that are larger/better than the 52" XBR4 LCD. Note: I'm also curious about non-PQ improvements for this question.

Anyone care to do a summary post of what we do know of the 983 feature / PQ wise over the other 98x players? I'd expect it'd be a short list with the non-disclosers still in place. *Shrug* Guess I'm still waiting.

PS I 100% certain that I want this purchase to be my very last major (not counting bedroom/excerise room cheapo player) standard def DVD player. That's why I'm still thinking of paying twice (983 over 980) as much while there might not be the gain in PQ.

-- Just because this correspondence did get me wondering why I'm awaiting the 983 doesn't mean I'm not still holding out for it's release. I just might wait till someone does a review of it or gets a review on "Secrets of HT" benchmark.

.

That would be the prudent thing to do.
Now that HD DVD is going away you might consider a Blu Ray player,I'm sure the 983 will be a great player but for ~$350USD you can get a Blu Ray player and be future proof.You can even get a refurb Toshiba XA2 that uses the superior REON processor for ~$250USD.

I did [in e-mail to Oppo, my addition] mention that I have a 52" XBR4 and asked if there would be an appreciable differene in the 983 vs either the 981/980. Suprisingly they said there wouldn't be.


Depends on what you are watching. For instance, if you live in Europe then proper support for PAL is important. 983 is supposed to handle PAL nicely while 980 does not.

That would be the prudent thing to do.
Now that HD DVD is going away you might consider a Blu Ray player,I'm sure the 983 will be a great player but for ~$350USD you can get a Blu Ray player and be future proof.You can even get a refurb Toshiba XA2 that uses the superior REON processor for ~$250USD.

I wouldn't suggest buying any BR player right now (they all suck). If you are watching your dvds on a smaller tv, IE:>50", then I would definately suggest the XA2 for dvd video. If the other features like SACD, DVDA, USB, ect... are of high interest to you, then I'd suggest the 980.
Although others will disagree, I don't think the difference in PQ of the 983 is worth it on smaller screens.

Depends on what you are watching. For instance, if you live in Europe then proper support for PAL is important. 983 is supposed to handle PAL nicely while 980 does not.

PAL is a different animal altogether. If PAL is a great concern to you, then you need the 981, the 983, or something non-Oppo. The 981 is subject to MB, but that horse has been beaten to death IMO. If you properly calibrate your display, then the macroblocking is rare. To me, if I was considering the 981, I'd buy it for sure... then if I don't like it, return it. The 983 is a better choice, but obviously more expensive.
I thought I heard a rumor, that it may now be possible to hack the XA2 to play PAL dvds. If that is true, then that is something to consider as well.

If PAL is a great concern to you, then you need the 981, the 983....

Why?

I thought 983 was supposed to handle PAL very well (per Neuromancer in this thread).

Why?

I thought 983 was supposed to handle PAL very well (per Neuromancer in this thread).

Don't clip that quote so closely. Read again what he wrote.

-Bill

The 983 will have superior picture quality over older models because of the Anchor Bay chip. Deinterlacing aside (superior in this model too), I've got a 971 at home, and when I tested the Toshiba Ep-10 with the Anchor Bay chip, the picture quality was improved: more definition and much more film-like feeling.

In fact, I was going to keep the Toshiba and sell the Oppo till I saw this thread announcing the 983. Now I'm waiting patiently...

I'm keeping my faith on this release. It should be an awesome player.

Since most, if not all HD discs will be re-released in Blu Ray, I can see only one reason to buy the Toshiba AX2---you already have at least 25 HD discs and don't feel like paying for replacements.

As I expect Toshiba to be announcing officially within a week or two that they are dropping the HD format, for everyone else buying an OPPO 980, 981, or 983 certainly makes sense, as you get a lot of formats too.

Since the OPPO 983 will have the second generation ABT 1018 scaling chipset, I don't see how it can't be a significant improvement over the other machines in this aspect. It would be nice if they included the ABT 2010 de-interlacing chipset too--then it would be a no-brainer and an absolute steal. It should then perform about the same as the Denon 3930ci dvd player with REALTA at a third or a quarter of the price.

As everyone here probably has a significant amount of standard dvd's and to a much lesser amount DVD-A's and SACD's (not to forget cd's), it could well be the last universal dvd player you would ever need. Of course, I don't know if OPPO uses the new ABT 2010 de-interlacing chipset in the 983, or if they use a cheaper solution.

I am going to wait on a Blu Ray purchase until a number of Blu Ray 2.0 machines are released, although I must admit I would probably rarely use the capabilities. I might just get a PS3 in the meantime or since I was planning on getting a new computer, getting one with Blu Ray included. Ther are some already and by the end of the year they will be as easy to get in your computer as any other upgrade.

Goodbye HD--many hardly knew yee :-) Who'd a thought that in about a years time a big splash would be reduced to hardly a ripple.

Greg

I wouldn't suggest buying any BR player right now (they all suck). If you are watching your dvds on a smaller tv, IE:>50", then I would definately suggest the XA2 for dvd video. If the other features like SACD, DVDA, USB, ect... are of high interest to you, then I'd suggest the 980.
Although others will disagree, I don't think the difference in PQ of the 983 is worth it on smaller screens.

Not all Blu-ray players suck, and considering HD DVD is a walking deadman (http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSL1643184420080216?pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=10005), it's curious why you would suggest an investment in an XA2. By the way, do you remember what I told (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12890485#post12890485) you a few weeks ago and you went on to imply (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12894912#post12894912) I am too blind/ignorant/stupid/in-denial to realize what's going on?

PAL is a different animal altogether. If PAL is a great concern to you, then you need the 981, the 983, or something non-Oppo. The 981 is subject to MB, but that horse has been beaten to death IMO. If you properly calibrate your display, then the macroblocking is rare. To me, if I was considering the 981, I'd buy it for sure... then if I don't like it, return it. The 983 is a better choice, but obviously more expensive.


The main reason I am interested in the Oppo is the excellent SACD support for a very good price, but the player has to replace my current universal player and since I live in EU I need PAL support.

The Oppo 980 has gotten good reviews and had it had PAL support I would have bought it. But since the 983 is fairly close (?) to release I think I will will buy that one.

Not all Blu-ray players suck, and considering HD DVD is a walking deadman (http://www.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/), it's curious why you would suggest an investment in an XA2. By the way, do you remember what I told (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12890485#post12890485) you a few weeks ago and you went on to imply (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12894912#post12894912) I am too blind/ignorant/stupid/in-denial to realize what's going on?

Wow, you must be off your meds today. From those links you provided, there is no where in there where I called you blind/ignorant/stupid/in-denial... that must just be you casting a self diagnosis.
All of your comments are riddled with rumors and hearsay. You offer no facts, just speculation.

I offered up what I could about what I knew of Toshibas efforts without revealing enough to get thrown in the slammer. They reduced retail prices majorly and sold thousands of players as a result.
They put up a very expensive spot during the Superbowl.
More was planned, but I'm sure that things change.

If you had actually read my posts, and applied some reading comprehension as well, then you would know exactly why I suggested the XA2.
It has tremendous upscaling capabilities for sd-dvds. It is also the BEST hd-dvd player, which btw all the hd-dvds are not going to self destruct at midnight :rolleyes:. They'll be around for a long time. They look just as good or better than BR and on top of that, you can buy hd-dvds from anywhere in the world and enjoy them on your hd-dvd player.... unlike with a BR player.
I also stated that the XA2 may be able to be hacked to play PAL dvds. So, then that would give someone a fantastic upconverting player for NTSC and PAL dvds, it plays the gorgeous high-def hd-dvds, has 5.1 analog outputs, a universal remote control, ect... ect... ect...

...and yes! ALL blu-ray players SUCK. They can't even play the damn content that are on the BR discs.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Wow, you must be off your meds today. From those links you provided, there is no where in there where I called you blind/ignorant/stupid/in-denial... that must just be you casting a self diagnosis.
All of your comments are riddled with rumors and hearsay. You offer no facts, just speculation.

Since you like to personally attack, I'll continue to ignore those remarks. Regarding HD DVD's future, I offered logic based on the circumstances at the time (should have been obvious to everyone after the Warner announcement). I said HD DVD future was short and it's becoming more obvious by the day.


I offered up what I could about what I knew of Toshibas efforts without revealing enough to get thrown in the slammer. They reduced retail prices majorly and sold thousands of players as a result.
They put up a very expensive spot during the Superbowl.
More was planned, but I'm sure that things change.

Getting thrown into the slammer?!? Anway, their sales were still too small and the Superbowl ad was not even aired in every market (and in SD I'm told).


If you had actually read my posts, and applied some reading comprehension as well, then you would know exactly why I suggested the XA2.
It has tremendous upscaling capabilities for sd-dvds. It is also the BEST hd-dvd player, which btw all the hd-dvds are not going to self destruct at midnight :rolleyes:. They'll be around for a long time. They look just as good or better than BR and on top of that, you can buy hd-dvds from anywhere in the world and enjoy them on your hd-dvd player.... unlike with a BR player.
I also stated that the XA2 may be able to be hacked to play PAL dvds. So, then that would give someone a fantastic upconverting player for NTSC and PAL dvds, it plays the gorgeous high-def hd-dvds, has 5.1 analog outputs, a universal remote control, ect... ect... ect...

I don't deny the XA2 is very good with SD DVD (I used to have one), but it's not very user friendly and has a number of quirks even at 1080p/60. Considering HD DVD is going away, I'm not sure it makes sense for someone to invest hundreds of dollars into something like that as there are better options IMO. The exception maybe being if you own a lot of HD DVDs, but there are other options still. By the way, the XA2's HD image is not quite as good as the A30/35, so I can't say it's necessarily the "best" HD DVD player today.


...and yes! ALL blu-ray players SUCK. They can't even play the damn content that are on the BR discs.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


My Panasonic BD30 plays content on the discs I've watched and doesn't "suck."

Does anyone know if the 983HD has improved audio performance over the 980H? Are they are using better DACS on the 983? I'm more interested in getting the best audio performance and the Oppo 980H seems like difficult to beat for the price. Thanks.

Dennis

Does anyone know if the 983HD has improved audio performance over the 980H? Are they are using better DACS on the 983? I'm more interested in getting the best audio performance and the Oppo 980H seems like difficult to beat for the price. Thanks.

Dennis

Very little change in audio performance. If you are not interested in the enhanced performance in video quality that the 983 has to offer, then I suggest getting the 980.

smarty pants wrote

If the other features like SACD, DVDA, USB, ect... are of high interest to you, then I'd suggest the 980.
Although others will disagree, I don't think the difference in PQ of the 983 is worth it on smaller screens

Why not the 981? The OPPO charts list the 981 as better for certain applications than the 980.

What is going to make the 983 better than the 981 and should I wait for its release?

I have a front projector and the 981 is listed on the OPPO site as ideal for my application, would the 983 be also?

Very little change in audio performance. If you are not interested in the enhanced performance in video quality that the 983 has to offer, then I suggest getting the 980.

Thanks. If the video performance is on par with my Denon 2910 then I'll be quite satisfied. I'm really interested in the Oppo 980 primarily for it's highly regarded audio performance. I am also interested in the 980's ability to send DSD direct over HDMI. My new Marantz sr8001 receiver has the ability to accept direct DSD over HDMI and I'm curious to see how it compares with DSD to PCM.

Since you like to personally attack, I'll continue to ignore those remarks. Regarding HD DVD's future, I offered logic based on the circumstances at the time (should have been obvious to everyone after the Warner announcement). I said HD DVD future was short and it's becoming more obvious by the day.

Oh, NOW you're gonna take the high road :rolleyes:;):p. I remember you were the one "calling me out" for no particular reason :eek:;). Before you engage me, please don't forget that my name IS Smarty-pants :D;).
Your remarks seemed more along the lines of being stated as fact. To someone who is not "in the know", those remarks may not be taken "in gest". So maybe just use simple denotations like "in my opinion".

Getting thrown into the slammer?!? Anway, their sales were still too small and the Superbowl ad was not even aired in every market (and in SD I'm told).

Their sales have not been small over the last 2 months. They have been very good. You really can not compare apples to apples if you say that BR sales #s are higher. You have to take into account that the same movies are not being released on BOTH formats, so...
What is killing HD, is SONY spending millions, millions, and millions buying out Warner, NetFlix, Wal-Mart, ect...
I guess these days there is no ethical standards in big business... I digress...
As for the jail reference?... ya, when you give away sequestered info that could ruin very important plans of a trillion dollar company like Toshiba?... potentially costing them millions?... ya, they tend to have you prosecuted for that kind of stuff.

I don't deny the XA2 is very good with SD DVD (I used to have one), but it's not very user friendly and has a number of quirks even at 1080p/60. Considering HD DVD is going away, I'm not sure it makes sense for someone to invest hundreds of dollars into something like that as there are better options IMO. The exception maybe being if you own a lot of HD DVDs, but there are other options still. By the way, the XA2's HD image is not quite as good as the A30/35, so I can't say it's necessarily the "best" HD DVD player today.

How long has it been since you owned the XA2?? There have been VERY PRODUCTIVE firmware updates. The 983 beats it out for sd upscaling, but not by much. IMO, the upscaling image of the XA2 is better than the A30/A35.


My Panasonic BD30 plays content on the discs I've watched and doesn't "suck."
Is the BD30 2.0 compliant????

Thanks. If the video performance is on par with my Denon 2910 then I'll be quite satisfied. I'm really interested in the Oppo 980 primarily for it's highly regarded audio performance. I am also interested in the 980's ability to send DSD direct over HDMI. My new Marantz sr8001 receiver has the ability to accept direct DSD over HDMI and I'm curious to see how it compares with DSD to PCM.

Sounds like the 980 is a good fit for you.
Good luck.

Why not the 981? The OPPO charts list the 981 as better for certain applications than the 980.

What is going to make the 983 better than the 981 and should I wait for its release?

I have a front projector and the 981 is listed on the OPPO site as ideal for my application, would the 983 be also?

Why not the 981 for what??? What is your criteria?

The 983 is not subject to macroblocking like the 981 and it will have better deinterlacing and scaling than the 981. It's biggest "drawback" at this point is to most pepole it is somewhat "expensive".

The 983 should be released with the next 3-5 weeks.

Is the BD30 2.0 compliant????

There are no BD 2.0 discs or players on the market.

What does this have to do with the Oppo player anyways? It's an SD-DVD player and saying X BR player or Y HD-DVD player is better or worse than each other means nothing to any of us.

To both of you this isn't a BR vs HD-DVD fanboy thread so stay on topic....your infantile argument is rather tiring and belongs in another forum.

I want to read about this Oppo player.

There are no BD 2.0 discs or players on the market.

What does this have to do with the Oppo player anyways? It's an SD-DVD player and saying X BR player or Y HD-DVD player is better or worse than each other means nothing to any of us.

To both of you this isn't a BR vs HD-DVD fanboy thread so stay on topic....your infantile argument is rather tiring and belongs in another forum.

I want to read about this Oppo player.

Don't get those panties all in a twist there killswitch... you may get a rash.
The root topic of discussion formed over my recommendation for buying a Toshiba XA2 for upscaling that is almost as good as the Oppo DV-983H.
So there is your on topic...
I'm actually one of the few who am in posession of a 983, so I think I have a little leeway here in what I can discuss about, or in comparison to, the player itself.
I do admit straying slightly off topic. Sorry about that. :)

Smarty Pants,

I find your ad hominem attack on DavidHir offensive. It reminds me of the old lawyer tactic. When you have a bad case, attack the witness. What you said to him has nothing to do with the 983. It's all about defending the Toshiba HD DVD format. As of a Reuters news story today, Toshiba has thrown in the towel. http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSL1643184420080216 It's over.

This thread has been disturbing to me. Those in the know promote a smug, superior attitude that I find hard to believe comes from OPPO Digital. The 983 is for "elitists." All others need not apply. That's snobbery plain and simple. Maybe it works for others. But, not for me.

I'm out.

Dana

Why not the 981 for what??? What is your criteria?

The 983 is not subject to macroblocking like the 981 and it will have better deinterlacing and scaling than the 981. It's biggest "drawback" at this point is to most pepole it is somewhat "expensive".

The 983 should be released with the next 3-5 weeks.
S-p:
I safely assume you have listened to both the 981 and the 983. Would you please elaborate and quickly do an A-B comparison.
Thnx

Don't get those panties all in a twist there killswitch... you may get a rash.
The root topic of discussion formed over my recommendation for buying a Toshiba XA2 for upscaling that is almost as good as the Oppo DV-983H.
So there is your on topic...
I'm actually one of the few who am in possession of a 983, so I think I have a little leeway here in what I can discuss about, or in comparison to, the player itself.
I do admit straying slightly off topic. Sorry about that. :)

Nice comeback there ;) ....anyhow, have you had a chance to try any PAL discs at all? Most of mine are R2 and my Toshiba HD-E1 isn't great with them...in fact I'd go as far as saying it's crap with PAL video stuff :( I was going for the 981 then noticed this post.....

I safely assume you have listened to both the 981 and the 983. Would you please elaborate and quickly do an A-B comparison.I have and results will appear in the May issue of Stereophile. :D

It's biggest "drawback" at this point is to most pepole it is somewhat "expensive".Or that it will output only PCM from SACDs? :rolleyes:

Oh, NOW you're gonna take the high road :rolleyes:;):p. I remember you were the one "calling me out" for no particular reason :eek:;). Before you engage me, please don't forget that my name IS Smarty-pants :D;).
Your remarks seemed more along the lines of being stated as fact. To someone who is not "in the know", those remarks may not be taken "in gest". So maybe just use simple denotations like "in my opinion".

I don't recall calling you names as you have with me. The comments I made a few weeks ago are starting to come true and your comments made are looking quite false.



Their sales have not been small over the last 2 months. They have been very good. You really can not compare apples to apples if you say that BR sales #s are higher. You have to take into account that the same movies are not being released on BOTH formats, so...
What is killing HD, is SONY spending millions, millions, and millions buying out Warner, NetFlix, Wal-Mart, ect...
I guess these days there is no ethical standards in big business... I digress...
As for the jail reference?... ya, when you give away sequestered info that could ruin very important plans of a trillion dollar company like Toshiba?... potentially costing them millions?... ya, they tend to have you prosecuted for that kind of stuff.

Will you please show me the evidence or links to reputable sources showing how Sony is buying out Warner, Netflix, Walmart, etc.? To someone who is not "in the know" those remarks may not be taken "in gest." So maybe just use simple denotations like "in my opinion." Besides, there were multiple sources commenting on Toshiba essentially paying off Paramount $150 million, yet I guess that's okay.

Yeah, based on your statements a few weeks ago, you really sound like someone who knows a lot of "important plans" with Toshiba. :rolleyes: But, I guess on an internet forum, anyone can pretend to be anyone. :)



How long has it been since you owned the XA2?? There have been VERY PRODUCTIVE firmware updates. The 983 beats it out for sd upscaling, but not by much. IMO, the upscaling image of the XA2 is better than the A30/A35.



Is the BD30 2.0 compliant????

I owned an XA2 up until about a month ago. The BD30 doesn't really need to be 2.0 compliant to view the movie which is what I and most people only care about.

Anyway, I've said enough and clearly made my points. Go ahead and continue with your name calling...

Smarty Pants,

I find your ad hominem attack on DavidHir offensive. It reminds me of the old lawyer tactic. When you have a bad case, attack the witness. What you said to him has nothing to do with the 983. It's all about defending the Toshiba HD DVD format. As of a Reuters news story today, Toshiba has thrown in the towel. http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSL1643184420080216 It's over.

This thread has been disturbing to me. Those in the know promote a smug, superior attitude that I find hard to believe comes from OPPO Digital. The 983 is for "elitists." All others need not apply. That's snobbery plain and simple. Maybe it works for others. But, not for me.

I'm out.

Dana

I also condemn the espousal of "elitism" when it pertains to material goods or anything else for that matter, but if you are referring to Neuromancer's comment (something about elite consumers a few posts back) then you are sorely taking that comment out of context.

But I do agree with staying on topic as it pertains to this unreleased player and I also have to admit that this is the one place that I come to to NOT hear about Blu Ray and HD DVD. I, for one, would appreciate not hearing anything about the forever NICHE' market of Blu or the soon-to-be-no-more HD DVD.

Thanks my fellow Enthusiast!

Man I posted a long post this morning and BAM a page and 1/2 more of posts... Cool, kinda.

As for the Blue-Ray option / PS3 option. I've thought A LOT about this and well I want a "last main room SD DVD player" that is a finalized fully featured/bugs worked out player. I'm not convinced at all that BR players are even close to being fully featured and that's fine (not a dig) because it's still in it's infancy (relative to SD DVD).

I will eventually get a BR player but not till a later generation model. I mean I had a >$200 Sony SD DVD player (not even progressive) from 1997-ish and now we're talking about a $170 or $350 Oppo player (1080p scaling) as the "Last SD player I'd need/want". It's all relative to the maturity of the technology.

There has to be some kind of improvement over the 980/1 to the 983 to make Kris Dearing as excited as he seems and I'm going to stick around to ascertain if it'll useful to my on my display. At 52" for my display I feel I can be borderline for the difference PQ wise and I believe there maybe other feature / convenience / responsiveness, etc gains in the 983. All this is unknown till people can openly talk about the player.

BTW I detected NO hint of "elite-ism" from the Oppo service email actually much to the contrary. Again I am amazed with their customer service, although they did make me start question my devoted quest to just get the 983 and to think of their alternate offerings.

Someone stated before in this thread that the 983 will use the same Mediatek chip used in the 980 for the video components output.
Any upgrade on this?

If this is the case, for playing PAL DVDs in a DLP screen connected with video components, should I wait for the 983?

I have and results will appear in the May issue of Stereophile. :D

Kal - Thanks for this info! Unforunately I hope to have gathered all the comparative info 980 to 983 and have either of them in my hands well before May. Any chance of a sneak peak at the guts of the comparison (post release day for the 983 / post non-disclosers lifted)?

At this moment I am hoping to be convinced on the model and have it ordered ~7-10 days from the 983 release date. When you've waited 4-5 months already it's going to be hard to hold off once the options are out there.

Again thanks for having the article on it and I do frequent your online articles and find them valuable.

PS Anyone know if / when the Oppo 983 would hit the "Secrets of HTHF DVD player benchmark" listing?

Kal - Thanks for this info! Unforunately I hope to have gathered all the comparative info 980 to 983 and have either of them in my hands well before May. Any chance of a sneak peak at the guts of the comparison (post release day for the 983 / post non-disclosers lifted)?Not possible. You will have to rely on other sources. Sorry.

Not possible. You will have to rely on other sources. Sorry.

Thanks. That's what I expected and do understand. The question was posed on a whim and was really half hearted.

Smarty Pants,

I find your ad hominem attack on DavidHir offensive. It reminds me of the old lawyer tactic. When you have a bad case, attack the witness. What you said to him has nothing to do with the 983. It's all about defending the Toshiba HD DVD format. As of a Reuters news story today, Toshiba has thrown in the towel. http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSL1643184420080216 It's over.

This thread has been disturbing to me. Those in the know promote a smug, superior attitude that I find hard to believe comes from OPPO Digital. The 983 is for "elitists." All others need not apply. That's snobbery plain and simple. Maybe it works for others. But, not for me.

I'm out.

Dana


Your remarks are rediculous... and yes, I offend a lot of people ;).
If you read ALL the comments, you would know that it got started by me recommending the possibility of buying an XA2 for superior upscaling of sd-dvds as an alternative to buying a 983.
I am not attacking him what-so-ever. It's just a simple debate/disageement. What he had said as well HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE 983. IT'S ALL ABOUT DEFENDING THE BR FORMAT :rolleyes::rolleyes:.
The thread is disturbing??... gimme a break. No one here is getting paid by Oppo to sit here and give you as many details as possible about the 983, and even some of the time violating the signed NDA contract when doing so... all for the benefit of helping out people like you.
YOU'RE WELCOME!!!
Oh wait, you never said thanks :rolleyes::eek::rolleyes:.

S-p:
I safely assume you have listened to both the 981 and the 983. Would you please elaborate and quickly do an A-B comparison.
Thnx


Kal has picked you up on that one. Take it away Kal... ;):D

Nice comeback there ;) ....anyhow, have you had a chance to try any PAL discs at all? Most of mine are R2 and my Toshiba HD-E1 isn't great with them...in fact I'd go as far as saying it's crap with PAL video stuff :( I was going for the 981 then noticed this post.....

I have played at least a dozen PAL dvds in the 983. 2-3 of them sat down and watched the entire movie.
One word... SUPERB!

Or that it will output only PCM from SACDs? :rolleyes:

Well, you said it... :D... and I agree... :D. This machine is sooo close to perfect, but it's few flaws are major IMHO. That's a shame.

I don't recall calling you names as you have with me. The comments I made a few weeks ago are starting to come true and your comments made are looking quite false.




Will you please show me the evidence or links to reputable sources showing how Sony is buying out Warner, Netflix, Walmart, etc.? To someone who is not "in the know" those remarks may not be taken "in gest." So maybe just use simple denotations like "in my opinion." Besides, there were multiple sources commenting on Toshiba essentially paying off Paramount $150 million, yet I guess that's okay.

Yeah, based on your statements a few weeks ago, you really sound like someone who knows a lot of "important plans" with Toshiba. :rolleyes: But, I guess on an internet forum, anyone can pretend to be anyone. :)




I owned an XA2 up until about a month ago. The BD30 doesn't really need to be 2.0 compliant to view the movie which is what I and most people only care about.

Anyway, I've said enough and clearly made my points. Go ahead and continue with your name calling...

You are confused. When did I call you a name??

I am not going to waste anymore of my time on HDM talk here. If you would like to conceed that as a win to the argument/discussion, then that's fine with me. Take your trophy and go. :D;)

I'm not pretending to be anyone. I had access to a small amount of privilaged information and VERY UNWISELY chose to share it here. My bad...:rolleyes:. I actually have even a tid bit more, but you better believe I am keeping my trap shut this time. It really is inconcequential anyway. Hell, I don't even know if I spelled that right. :D

Actually, I think you are just giving me a hard time because you are jelous that I have a 983 and you don't. nah nah nah-nah nah:p:cool::D
Does that count as name calling?... oh well.:)

Guys, can you bury the hatchet already?

Kal, I've got the 981 and the audio quality is better than the 971 I had previously, much more intelligible dialogue. I believe the switchable AC plug helped. The 970 audio got raves in Stereophile as a best buy. The 981's audio is supposed to be identical to the 970 except ( I believe) for a slight difference in the power supply design.

Does the CD playback of the 983 top the 970? Will it pass DSD through HDMI?

On another note: I never thought I'd be thinking of buying any SONY DVD/Blu Ray player
and it wouldn't have SACD.

I have asked this before and never got a satisfactory answer, but I think your the guy to do it!

If you are using the digital out (toslink, whatever) for audio is there any difference between the oppo models, 980, 81, or 83? On these threads the general opinion seems to be 980 is best for audio, 981 for video, or wait for the 983 for the best of both. However, isn't the sound difference only applicable to the analog output? Or am I missing something?

Also for those of not quite on the cutting edge, if 720p/1080i is the limit for your television, is there much of a difference between these models if that is the highest output you can display??

*pokes thread* OPPO better release the product soon, or there will be blood.

I have asked this before and never got a satisfactory answer, but I think your the guy to do it!

The main reason you have not received a satisfactory response is that no one is really allowed to talk about the DV-983H in true depth. I can give you bread crumbs here and there, but that is about it.

For toslink you will likely not hear any difference in the DVD player when sending a raw audio signal. As a transport device, the players are nearly identical (differences in THD not withstanding).

The main benefit of the DV-980H/DV-983H is that the entire design of the player has been around quality power and staging. This can reduce errors, such as jidder, but mainly effects the analog outputs.

Also for those of not quite on the cutting edge, if 720p/1080i is the limit for your television, is there much of a difference between these models if that is the highest output you can display??

As I've said before I have a hard time selling this player to anyone other than the truly dedicated. Yes, it produces a brilliant picture, quality audio, but at the same time, it is still just a Standard Definition DVD player. For $400.00 you could get a PS3 or spend 100 more on a dedicated BD player.

The main benefit of the DV-980H/DV-983H is that the entire design of the player has been around quality power and staging. This can reduce errors, such as jidder, but mainly effects the analog outputs.


So paired with an Integra 9.8 (I own), which lacks in analog performance, The 980 may be a better choice, sticking to all digital connections?

I've been watching this thread with great interest, but may just opt for a 980 @ $169. If the 983 lacks DSD for SACD, as implied above, I'll pass.

Yesterday, 07:16 PM #1449 | Link
Kal Rubinson
AVS Special Member


Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC + Connecticut
Posts: 12,188 Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants
It's biggest "drawback" at this point is to most pepole it is somewhat "expensive".

Or that it will output only PCM from SACDs?
__________________
Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Contributing Editor, Stereophile
www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/

If the 983 lacks DSD for SACD, as implied above, I'll pass.OTOH, I preferred the PCM output (from SACDs) to the DSD output with the 980. FWIW.

OTOH, I preferred the PCM output (from SACDs) to the DSD output with the 980. FWIW.

I wonder if Oppo sees that their DSD/SACD implementation has no real advantage, so they have opted to leave it out of the 983.

I still have a hard time justifying the target price of $350 for a SD DVDp, esp with the 980 on the market for $169.

Oh and BTW, I already own a 981, I just want to relocate it and I need something with both HDMI and component outputs to drive multiply zones.

I wonder if Oppo sees that their DSD/SACD implementation has no real advantage, so they have opted to leave it out of the 983.


I seem to remember from earlier posts that DSD over HDMI could require a combination of hardware and software changes. If Oppo has to choose between PCM and DSD for SACD then PCM is most likely better as PCM is supported by HDMI 1.1. Buying a new receiver for each new bitstream format is not really an option, at least not for me.

I wonder if Oppo sees that their DSD/SACD implementation has no real advantage, so they have opted to leave it out of the 983.I doubt that my opinion carries such weight. :cool:

OTOH, their 'decision' is consequence of hardware choices made for other reasons.

I've been watching this thread with great interest, but may just opt for a 980 @ $169. If the 983 lacks DSD for SACD, as implied above, I'll pass.

As you have a an Integra 9.8 you are better off with the DV-980H in the first place, as you are looking for a DVD player which offers the best digital transportation of audio and video.

I wonder if Oppo sees that their DSD/SACD implementation has no real advantage, so they have opted to leave it out of the 983.

I won't speak about the DV-983H, but one of the reasons why the DV-981HD does not do DSD is that it would have been a pain in the ass trying to get the DSD signal to pass through the Faroudja chipset.

The DV-980H uses a single chip solution, so getting DSD to pass over this chip is much easier to perform, as you do not have to worry about an external scaler/processor corrupting the data.

Neuromancer. I also have an Integra 9.8 and soon to match either a 980 or a 983 up with a Pioneer kuro. I am looking for the best of both worlds (audio and video performance) and was hoping that would be the 983. Are you saying I should just go with the 980. And if so why? Thanks

If you want to use your DVD player strictly as a transport, the DV-980H is the better solution. It can do 480i over HDMI and DSD.

If you do not want to bother using the Integra 9.8 as a video scaler, then the DV-983H will be a good solution, as it will have an audio performance which is potentially better than the DV-980H and video performance that rivals much more expensive solutions.

Is 983 better than XA2 in terms of upscaling?
Also how does it compare to other players with Reon processor such as Denon's upcoming 2K BD player?

Neuromancer,

Any updates on supporting the vertical stretch for anamorphic lenses?

If there is anyone that is considered a true "insider" in this thread that can give a correct answer or at least can somebody correct the title of this thread, which states "SACD DSD" is part of the 983 specs. If the 983 only does PCM over HDMI instead of DSD then I would be wasting my time waiting for it. My Onkyo 905 does DSD processing and I would prefer to use it. My PS3 also does PCM over HDMI for SACD, which is dumb in my opinion. I guess even though Sony says it's an HDMI 1.3 machine, this does not appear to help the audio side as much as video side. I would like to improve my SD DVD picture quality as well, but I already have an XA2 for that purpose and it does 1080p/24 on most good SD DVD transfers without many issues. So can somebody reveal without a doubt that the 983 "cannot" do SACD DSD? Send me a PM if you know and don't want to disclose it in public. It will save me another month of waiting for something that may not resolve my needs. Thank you in advance.
"

Will the 983 have 6 analog audio outputs for multichannel sound (DVD-A and SACD)?

ahh.. OPPO 983, Blu Ray, all in one player.... oh, sorry, I was just daydreaming..

Is 983 better than XA2 in terms of upscaling?
Also how does it compare to other players with Reon processor such as Denon's upcoming 2K BD player?

Somehow, this question never gets a straightforward answer, if any, from the insiders. I'd like to know as well.

Thanks!

Somehow, this question never gets a straightforward answer, if any, from the insiders. I'd like to know as well.

Thanks!

You can get an idea by reading reviews on the HD DVD players area. The A35 uses ABT while the XA2 uses Reon.

OTOH, I preferred the PCM output (from SACDs) to the DSD output with the 980. FWIW.

Kal, does the Integra 9.8 convert a DSD signal to PCM if Audyssey or other processing is used? Would there be a difference between the 983's DSD>PCM conversion and the 9.8's DSD>PCM conversion? I'm really just trying to figure out if the DSD>PCM output from the 983 will cause me to give anything sonically, assuming I choose to use the 9.8's processing.

Thanks in advance.

Neuromancer,

Any updates on supporting the vertical stretch for anamorphic lenses?

Yes, it has already been confirmed earlier in the thread.

Is 983 better than XA2 in terms of upscaling?
Also how does it compare to other players with Reon processor such as Denon's upcoming 2K BD player?

Better than XA2. Other players I do not know.

If there is anyone that is considered a true "insider" in this thread that can give a correct answer or at least can somebody correct the title of this thread, which states "SACD DSD" is part of the 983 specs. If the 983 only does PCM over HDMI instead of DSD then I would be wasting my time waiting for it. My Onkyo 905 does DSD processing and I would prefer to use it. My PS3 also does PCM over HDMI for SACD, which is dumb in my opinion. I guess even though Sony says it's an HDMI 1.3 machine, this does not appear to help the audio side as much as video side. I would like to improve my SD DVD picture quality as well, but I already have an XA2 for that purpose and it does 1080p/24 on most good SD DVD transfers without many issues. So can somebody reveal without a doubt that the 983 "cannot" do SACD DSD? Send me a PM if you know and don't want to disclose it in public. It will save me another month of waiting for something that may not resolve my needs. Thank you in advance.
"
If you just read over the last two pages of the thread, Kal has revealed the answer for you.

Will the 983 have 6 analog audio outputs for multichannel sound (DVD-A and SACD)?

yes

Somehow, this question never gets a straightforward answer, if any, from the insiders. I'd like to know as well.

Thanks!

It's hard to answer when we don't have all those players in our posession to do comparisons.

Somehow, this question never gets a straightforward answer, if any, from the insiders. I'd like to know as well.

Thanks! You have to remember that for SD-DVD playback, there are 2 steps: deinterlacing and scaling. The XA2 uses the Reon for both. The A35 only has the ABT scaler chip - don't know what is used for deinterlacing. The 983 will use 2 ABT chips, one deinterlacer, one scaler. You should see similar performance with the Reon chip and both ABT chips. And you may be perfectly happy with other chips solutions in the other players.

larry

You have to remember that for SD-DVD playback, there are 2 steps: deinterlacing and scaling. The XA2 uses the Reon for both. The A35 only has the ABT scaler chip - don't know what is used for deinterlacing. The 983 will use 2 ABT chips, one deinterlacer, one scaler. You should see similar performance with the Reon chip and both ABT chips. And you may be perfectly happy with other chips solutions in the other players.

larry

Yes... all true.

The XA2 and 983 are very close in performance (final picture on screen). Others may say that the picture between the two looks "different", with not one necessaraly looking better than the other. I think the 983 looks better. We will soon know what others think as some owners of the XA2 will buy the 983. Hopefully they will post their comparisons here.

As for comparing the 983 to other "high end" players?... I have not. Nor do I really have any desire to. A 1-2% potential increase in performance to the tune of $1500 more than the 983 is just plain dumb IMO. Of course there are those who have money to burn though. :)

The XA2 and 983 are very close in performance (final picture on screen). Others may say that the picture between the two looks "different", with not one necessaraly looking better than the other. I think the 983 looks better.

I could see this being the case. Having owned two different Reon based players at one time or another (Denon 2930CI and XA2) I always thought the Reon even with all of the enhancements turned off gave an ever-so-slight "plastic" look to the image. This is not meant as a knock - as the Reon has delivered the best SD DVD image I've seen to date. But, nothing is 100% perfect as this is one *minor* quibble I have had with that chipset. I wonder if the ABT chipset does not "suffer" from that look I'm referring.

Yes, it has already been confirmed earlier in the thread.

Where? I've been keeping up with the thread and must have missed it. Neuromancer said in the very beginning that Oppo was considering it but that's all I saw.

Edit: searched and found it. Thanks. Can you tell us if the sub-titles are moved up to the image area for movies (like Crouching Tiger) that display outside when using this anamorphic vertical stretch?

I could see this being the case. Having owned two different Reon based players at one time or another (Denon 2930CI and XA2) I always thought the Reon even with all of the enhancements turned off gave an ever-so-slight "plastic" look to the image. This is not meant as a knock - as the Reon has delivered the best SD DVD image I've seen to date. But, nothing is 100% perfect as this is one *minor* quibble I have had with that chipset. I wonder if the ABT chipset does not "suffer" from that look I'm referring.

I know the slight plastic look that you are referring to with the Reon. To my eyes, the ABT chipset in the VP30 does not provide this look.

As for comparing the 983 to other "high end" players?... I have not. Nor do I really have any desire to. A 1-2% potential increase in performance to the tune of $1500 more than the 983 is just plain dumb IMO. Of course there are those who have money to burn though. :)

Changing the relative perspective in that statement to be comparing the 980 to the 983 (sliding down a notch if you will).... the same question applies and what I imagine most people are wondering. [chaning the $1500 more to be double the price]

I'm starting to wonder what other features beyond the already beaten to death PQ (I think we know what we can know till it's out). How it handles Divx files, convience aspects, # files / folders, smaller differences? Again I entirely supsect that knowledge will only come once it's released.

Seems to me we only have the release of it to talk about and I might have already beaten that horse to it's conclusion, again till it pops up.

Where? I've been keeping up with the thread and must have missed it. Neuromancer said in the very beginning that Oppo was considering it but that's all I saw.

Edit: searched and found it. Thanks. Can you tell us if the sub-titles are moved up to the image area for movies (like Crouching Tiger) that display outside when using this anamorphic vertical stretch?

I don't know. I don't have a CIH setup.
I know that the 983 is not ready yet, or else it would be for sale. That's all I can say about that at this time. You'll have to read between the lines... :D:D:D.

I know the slight plastic look that you are referring to with the Reon. To my eyes, the ABT chipset in the VP30 does not provide this look.

Nor does it with the 983.

Smarty-pants,

Thank you... this would make it the one and only high end stand alone with such feature.

Incidentally, you don't have to have a CIH setup just turn the vertical stretch on on your 16x9 display with sub-titles on and you can check for this.. but I understand if you're not allowed to give more info :)

Changing the relative perspective in that statement to be comparing the 980 to the 983 (sliding down a notch if you will).... the same question applies and what I imagine most people are wondering. [chaning the $1500 more to be double the price]

I'm starting to wonder what other features beyond the already beaten to death PQ (I think we know what we can know till it's out). How it handles Divx files, convience aspects, # files / folders, smaller differences? Again I entirely supsect that knowledge will only come once it's released.

Seems to me we only have the release of it to talk about and I might have already beaten that horse to it's conclusion, again till it pops up.

Hopefully we are in the final stretch now. :)

Hopefully we are in the final stretch now. :)

Anyone else feel like they are in one of the insane lines where people have sleeeping-bags, lawn chairs and coolers? For some item that most people passing by would think we're nuts to be camping out for.

Anyone getting that feeling? ;)

OhohOHOH 2 more posts and we're at 1500 posts about an item that is not for sale yet! (Our line is full of smelly people with long beards.)

#1499

#1500 wOOt! Had to do it.
Seriously, anyone have a crystal ball? Is blu-ray ever gonna take off? If not I'd grab one of these 983's in a second.