Oppo will soon be launching their newest player, the 983. Its a 980 with some very big improvements. It uses ABT 102 deinterlacing chip and ABT 1010 scaling engine. I took some crappy photos I will post later today, but it looks like a 980 (except the USB port is moved to the read of the unit). The other difference is that it has RS232 and IR in and out ports on the rear. This player is basically the processing of a VP50 added right inline with a 980. So it will have an exceptional picture to be sure. They had one on display at the ABT booth this past week at Cedia.


Expected to sell for $300-349 (according to estimates by Oppo, of course it could be more or less as they determine what they need to sell it for)

Nice, very nice!

larry

I affectionately call it the "Swan Song" since it should be the last, great, universal DVD player on the market.

I affectionately call it the "Swan Song" since it should be the last, great, universal DVD player on the market.

Do you have any nice photos to add Neuro?

I can take some, but I would have to get permission from OPPO first. I'll shoot them an e-mail about this.

Oppo will soon be launching their newest player, the 983. Its a 980 with some very big improvements. It uses ABT 102 deinterlacing chip and ABT 1010 scaling engine. I took some crappy photos I will post later today, but it looks like a 980 (except the USB port is moved to the read of the unit). The other difference is that it has RS232 and IR in and out ports on the rear. This player is basically the processing of a VP50 added right inline with a 980. So it will have an exceptional picture to be sure. They had one on display at the ABT booth this past week at Cedia.


Expected to sell for $300-349 (according to estimates by Oppo, of course it could be more or less as they determine what they need to sell it for)Very interesting . . . will be interested to see how it performs. Can hear the red versus blue arguments already. ;)

Oppo will soon be launching their newest player, the 983. Its a 980 with some very big improvements. It uses ABT 102 deinterlacing chip and ABT 1010 scaling engine. I took some crappy photos I will post later today, but it looks like a 980 (except the USB port is moved to the read of the unit). The other difference is that it has RS232 and IR in and out ports on the rear. This player is basically the processing of a VP50 added right inline with a 980. So it will have an exceptional picture to be sure. They had one on display at the ABT booth this past week at Cedia.


Expected to sell for $300-349 (according to estimates by Oppo, of course it could be more or less as they determine what they need to sell it for)
What is the timeline to shipment? I was just about to pull the trigger on 980. Should I wait?

Will this player provide a vertical stretch for CIH set ups? How about displaying all subtitles in the image area also for CIH?. If that's the case I'm in!!!

And... what about that Pioneer 58AV you told us about? Anything else ?

Will this player provide a vertical stretch for CIH set ups? How about displaying all subtitles in the image area also for CIH?. If that's the case I'm in!!!

Not yet, no. This is something that I am pushing for, as the ABT solution is much easier to program for than the Faroudja chipset, and the scaling, de-interlacing, and aspect ratio controls are also much better than the MTK solution.

With the amount of time it will take for this player to come out, I would not be surprised if some constant height and AR controls are implemented.

And... what about that Pioneer 58AV you told us about? Anything else ?

Easy answer: forget Pioneer :p

Easy answer: forget Pioneer :p

Gladly!

If you guys can push for CIH support with vertical strech and subtitle positioning I'll get this unit as soon as it available for pre-order. Neither Pioneer nor Denon chose to support CIH.

Thank you. You made my Sunday night. Now I'm off to bed and get ready for the work week :)

Edit: I'm forced to have a HTPC to control the subtitles inside the viewing area. Would really prefer a player of the quality of Oppo to pull this. Plus with excellent video scaling to boot such as what Oppo is known for... man, this sounds great.

This player is basically the processing of a VP50 added right inline with a 980.Any frame rate conversion, or possibility of upgrading to it? For film based content, it would be nice to have a DVD player that output 24 fps at popular resolutions: 480p, 1080p, 720/768 (can it do 768?).

Sanjay

Hmmm... Looks like I'm going to have to be on Santa's "nice" list for the next year so that I can get me a beta unit! :D

How soon will this player be available? Looks great!

OPPO has an estimated release schedule of "Late Winter". Likely no sooner than December.

Any frame rate conversion, or possibility of upgrading to it? For film based content, it would be nice to have a DVD player that output 24 fps at popular resolutions: 480p, 1080p, 720/768 (can it do 768?).

SanjayWhat displays accept 480p24 or 720p24?? I think 1080p24 started to be accepted because hidef DVDs are encoded at 1080p24 (analogous to 480i for SD DVDs).

larry

OPPO has an estimated release schedule of "Late Winter". Likely no sooner than December.

Neuromancer,

Is this release schedule for beta units or for general availibility? If general availibility... are you beta testing now?

Not yet, no. This is something that I am pushing for, as the ABT solution is much easier to program for than the Faroudja chipset, and the scaling, de-interlacing, and aspect ratio controls are also much better than the MTK solution.

With the amount of time it will take for this player to come out, I would not be surprised if some constant height and AR controls are implemented.

Neuromancer,

Don't know how much you hang out on the constant height area of AVS... the ability to display subtitles in the image area is the one big drawback for us with anamorphic lenses that like to turn sub-titles on. For std DVD playback you are limited to HTPC (with TheaterTek) or a couple of very dated Samsung decks (this feature is called EzView by Samsung...surprisingly they omitted it from their Blu-Ray player with Reon. Must not be that simple).

If Oppo can implement vertical stretch and sub-title movement they would attract a lot of interest from the CIH community. I use TheaterTek now as a replacement for my Pioneer 59avi since I switched to a wide scope screen. It would be great to go back to a set top player instead of a computer for playback.

Is this release schedule for beta units or for general availibility? If general availibility... are you beta testing now?

That is the actual release date of the product. I can't really comment on the beta testing as I am still under NDA on this product.

Oppo will soon be launching their newest player, the 983. Its a 980 with some very big improvements. It uses ABT 102 deinterlacing chip and ABT 1010 scaling engine. ... This player is basically the processing of a VP50 added right inline with a 980.

Crap. :) If I had known this was coming, I wouldn't have gotten a 980H; I would have waited!

Kevin,
How's the 980H compared to your 59avi?

That is the actual release date of the product. I can't really comment on the beta testing as I am still under NDA on this product.

You sure its not a FDA? :D

I have no info about the new pioneer as I didn't really care to ask them. I just know its $500 and suppose to be a brilliant player, but I think this oppo will outperform it (IMO) for $150-200 less. I think Neuromancer will tell us more when he is able.

oh, also neuro- am I close on the projected price? Is $300-349 still target price?

All my neutrality can say is that you are maybe "accurate" in your pricing. *cough*

Kevin,
How's the 980H compared to your 59avi?

It will stomp it. Unless, of course, you like very large, heavy DVD players which really are too expensive for what they do, then you will love the new Pioneer, as it "feels" like an Elite player.

This is interesting news. I take it that this chipset will eliminate the macroblocking for certain flat panels? Would it be safe to say that the image quality is more for larger panels since we know that the 980 gives such quality as it is???

There will be no macroblock enhancement errors as there is no Faroudja chipset.

The ABT is a cadence chipset. Everything you throw at it will be appropriately de-interlaced and scaled. Aliasing and interlacing errors should no longer rear their ugly head, assuming that OPPO codes the unit properly.

It will stomp it. Unless, of course, you like very large, heavy DVD players which really are too expensive for what they do, then you will love the new Pioneer, as it "feels" like an Elite player.

I would have to disagree. I just did a comparison between the 980H and the 79avi. After several days with the 980H I prefer the 79avi over the 980H. When you factor in cost the 980H is the clear winner of course but I will stay with the 79avi for now. I will definitely order a 983H when they become available for sure.

Bill

What displays accept 480p24 or 720p24??CRT projectors. I was more curious if it had the capability to output at 24 for displays that could do multiples thereof. I think 1080p24 started to be accepted because hidef DVDs are encoded at 1080p24Wasn't anybody watching film based material at multiples of 24 prior to HD DVD and Blu-ray?

Sanjay

I would have to disagree. I just did a comparison between the 980H and the 79avi. After several days with the 980H I prefer the 79avi over the 980H. When you factor in cost the 980H is the clear winner of course but I will stay with the 79avi for now. I will definitely order a 983H when they become available for sure.

Pioneer has not been using their Elite branding that well the past couple of years. As an example, the DV-48AVI is nothing more than a DV-980H in a different package. The chasis is small, and they added a 1.5lb bottom plate to increase the weight, and feel, of the player, all so they can charge you $300 MSRP.

If the new Elite is anything like the DV-48AVI, then you are being fleesed by the marketability of the name, and not the actual quality of the product.

Pioneer has not been using their Elite branding that well the past couple of years. As an example, the DV-48AVI is nothing more than a DV-980H in a different package. The chasis is small, and they added a 1.5lb bottom plate to increase the weight, and feel, of the player, all so they can charge you $300 MSRP.

If the new Elite is anything like the DV-48AVI, then you are being fleesed by the marketability of the name, and not the actual quality of the product.

All I am going on is actual viewing in my system comparing the 79avi to the 980H. It seems that some are taking exception to the fact that I prefer the 79avi to the 980H. So much in fact to dig up little known facts about DV-48avi and slamming Pioneer products.

Elite products in your opinion could be crap which is fine but I have had my 79avi for close to two years without one issue. I paid quite a bit more than $169.00 for the 79avi but I do not think I was fleeced at all.

I thought I did a pretty impartial personal review of both players and feel no need to slam Oppo and their excellent products. Again this is just my opinion and I could be the minority here but my eyes and ears judged for themselves:).

Bill

Don't get me wrong, Bill, I have been a long time fan of Pioneer and their Elite line (all of my receivers and plasmas had been Elites). But that love affair is not the blind faith it used to be. The more I play with all of these toys, the less and less I am impressed with the design decisions Pioneer has made with the Elite line (mainly, I am paying for the name alone).

My statements are completely based off of my experience with the DV-983H and previous generation players, including the current Elite. I defended my statements not with blind ire, but a direct reference to a product which is earily similar to the DV-980H at a premium price for minor differences. The main quip, again, is that the current Elite does not feel or look like an Elite. It is just a branded name that serves no purpose other than increasing the cost of the player.

I can't directly compare to the new Elite, but if Pioneer is pulling the same punches they have been for the past couple of years, I am looking in their direction with a slight squint in my eye.

EDIT: Note how I have not "corrected" or "reprimanded" you for your statements in the DV-980H forums. Your opinion is your opinion.

Neuro is right. I think the 79AVi is a very poorly implemented video player. It's not even as good as the 59AVi it supposedly replaced. I have had the 980H in my system for about a month. I do prefer the picture (and lack of a layer change :) ) of the Oppo vs the 59AVi that I had. The Pio has a better analog output stage, but with HDMI 1.2 and a suitable pre/pro or receiver, that becomes moot.

I also believe that Pioneer knows that the 79AVi was a mistake. That's why the new Pio Elite player is a 58AV, and not a 78AV, for example.

Bill- With all those settings available in the Pio's menu system that the 980H doesn't have, can you fix all the problems that Kris found in his review? :) No.

The Oppo is a "cheaper" player than the Pioneers. No question. But don't let the weight fool you. Oppos are outstanding performers no matter what the cost of the competition is.

Bill- With all those settings available in the Pio's menu system that the 980H doesn't have, can you fix all the problems that Kris found in his review? :) No.

The Oppo is a "cheaper" player than the Pioneers. No question. But don't let the weight fool you. Oppos are outstanding performers no matter what the cost of the competition is.

Kevin,

I know we debated the 79avi vs. 59avi quite awhile ago. But as I have said many times I judge PQ on what I see in my system not on results of a calibration disc. And I am sure that the settings in the 79avi's menu will not fix what Kris found as I sure he would have done that on his own:)!

As far as the size or weight of a player to me has no bearing on quality as Oppo has clearly shown. In all honesty if Oppo was not coming out with the 983H I would unpack the 980H and spend some more time with it (I might anyhow). I will order a 983H when they become available for sure.

Bill

Bill Mac prefers the 79avi over the 980H and Kevin Brown prefers the 980H over the 59avi... :) That's what this forum is all about. We share our experiences.

I'm scratching my head a little bit about the 980H. I have an Insignia which uses the same MTK chip as the 970 so I'm familiar with how sharp the picture can look. No experience w/the 970 but I'm sure it's better than my Insignia. It took a pretty fast HTPC with advanced ffdshow settings to improve over the 59avi in my environment.

We'll have to wait and see this new Oppo. It sounds exciting. I didn't jump on the Oppo bandwagon before because I have extensive experience with the Faroudja chip (Denon 2910, 3910, Zenith 318, LG 418...and one Samsung) and the picture never looked right to me. Finally Oppo has picked a top notch chip and this could be a giant killer.

As an example, the DV-48AVI is nothing more than a DV-980H in a different package.
So are you saying that Oppo is the OEM for Pioneer's DV-48AV? Because I was going to buy the DV-48 as a replacement for the 980, which I am not that impressed with. The 980 combs horribly on my Sony 34XBR960 with any type of video or animation at 480p and higher. So if the DV-48 is just a clone of the 980, I definely will be getting the DV-58 or the 983 (hopefully its ABT scaler will do the trick) instead.

So are you saying that Oppo is the OEM for Pioneer's DV-48AV? Because I was going to buy the DV-48 as a replacement for the 980, which I am not that impressed with. The 980 combs horribly on my Sony 34XBR960 with any type of video or animation at 480p and higher. So if the DV-48 is just a clone of the 980, I definely will be getting the DV-58 or the 983 (hopefully its ABT scaler will do the trick) instead.

No, what I am saying is that the Pioneer likely uses the same MTK solution that the DV-980H does based off of the video specifications, USB functionality, file support, and so forth. The Pioneer uses higher quality OP/Amps, power supply, and so forth, but really, the design of the player is not worth $130, let alone be a part of the Elite family.

a 983 sounds like what ive been waiting for so i can upgrade from my pan s77. the hddvd players seem to be too unreliable and troublesome for me so far but the g3 players might be better.

The one thing I wish more upscalers would do is 768p. It would be a nice addition to this player.

Now, unfortunately, the only way I can input 768p to my Pioneer plasma is to use the VGA input (which is terrible, and actually only 1280x760 - not 768).

I hate double scaling, so I always end up letting my display upscale from a native resolution....

Sigh....

How hard would it be for oppo to add video input and turn it into a video processor for all signals?

How hard would it be for oppo to add video input and turn it into a video processor for all signals?

Video reciever circuitry - whether analog or HDMI - is not trivial, especially for something designed as soley an output device. Add to that the fact that it adds "switching", and it's something that I can't ever see happening - on ANY disc player - ever.

That and implementation is key. One of the reasons you buy any dedicated device is due to it doing a better job than an all-in-one-solution. If OPPO added inputs, then they would have to code their system to work will all signals (good and bad), which dilutes the overall quality of the product, as they are stretching their power across a wide-range of possible inputs.

I've been considering the 981 because it is supposed to do better with PAL discs. Should I wait for the 983 instead? I'm not familiar with the V50, can someone provide a link?

Thanks

The DV-983H is more akin to a DVD player version of the ABT VP30 (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/systems/vp30.php)

How well do the OPPO's do as CD players? If I was going to use it as a transport, through the analog outs, to my preamp, does it really matter? Do we have pricing, and ship dates yet?

How well do the OPPO's do as CD players? If I was going to use it as a transport, through the analog outs, to my preamp, does it really matter? Ahem. If you use the analog outs, you are using it as a player. If you use only the digital outputs, then you are using it as a transport.

The DV-983H is more akin to a DVD player version of the ABT VP30 (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/systems/vp30.php)

So will it have deinterlacing and cadence handling equal to or better than the Faroudja in the 981?

So will it have deinterlacing and cadence handling equal to or better than the Faroudja in the 981?

Anchor Bay's Precision Deinterlacing is considered one of the best, if not the best, deinterlacing solutions. It is a 10-bit Motion, Edge and Source Adaptive deinterlacer which is cadence agnostic. The scaling solution in the Oppo DV-983 is also from Anchor Bay, but it is not the ABT1010 it is the ABT1018 (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/semiconductors/abt1018.php). The major difference between these two scaling chips is that the ABT1018 has frame-rate conversion and it supports more output resolutions.

The Oppo DV-983 has the potential to provide exactly the same performance as an SDI modified DVD player connected to a DVDO iScan VP30 (MSRP $1999 + SDI Input Module $399) with the ABT102 ($499) Precision Deinterlacing card installed.

Ahem. If you use the analog outs, you are using it as a player. If you use only the digital outputs, then you are using it as a transport.

Doh!!!
Thanks Kal, I knew that. Long day at work. So would it be best to run from the opt/coax or HDMI. to the Processor. Soon to be Integra DTC 9.8, if it ever ships:(

Doh!!!
Thanks Kal, I knew that. Long day at work. So would it be best to run from the opt/coax or HDMI. to the Processor. Soon to be Integra DTC 9.8, if it ever ships:(Bingo! HDMI/DSD into the 9.8 is the way to go.

Anchor Bay's Precision Deinterlacing is considered one of the best, if not the best, deinterlacing solutions. It is a 10-bit Motion, Edge and Source Adaptive deinterlacer which is cadence agnostic. The scaling solution in the Oppo DV-983 is also from Anchor Bay, but it is not the ABT1010 it is the ABT1018 (http://www.anchorbaytech.com/products/semiconductors/abt1018.php). The major difference between these two scaling chips is that the ABT1018 has frame-rate conversion and it supports more output resolutions.

The Oppo DV-983 has the potential to provide exactly the same performance as an SDI modified DVD player connected to a DVDO iScan VP30 (MSRP $1999 + SDI Input Module $399) with the ABT102 ($499) Precision Deinterlacing card installed.

This sounds great! I'll be eagerly awaiting the DV-983. Thanks for the information.

In the link for the ABT1018 that Josh@dvdo provided, it states that it supports the framerates of 50,60,72,75 and "others". I wonder if one of the "others" could be 24p? If Oppo can pull it off, I believe that would make the 983 the first DVD player to support 1080p24. :eek: How sweet would that be?!:D

In the link for the ABT1018 that Josh@dvdo provided, it states that it supports the framerates of 50,60,72,75 and "others". I wonder if one of the "others" could be 24p? If Oppo can pull it off, I believe that would make the 983 the first DVD player to support 1080p24. :eek: How sweet would that be?!:D

Upscaling 480i SD DVD to 1080p/24 with the ABT solution would be worth the price of admission, regardless of anything else it may do - especially if you happen to have a display that supports display at 72fps or 96fps for 24fps content.

This alone would make me buy it.

So will it have deinterlacing and cadence handling equal to or better than the Faroudja in the 981?

By a WIDE margin. The ABT solution is very close to state-of-the-art.

There will be some HD DVD players implementing ABT right?

Throws a wrench in there if Oppo needs to raise it's pricing again.

There will be some HD DVD players implementing ABT right?

The Toshiba HD-A30 and the rebagged Integra have the ABT solution.

Quick question - So, the 983 will be on the same chassis as the 980, not the 981...does this mean it'll have the same "guts" for audio as the 980? I know it may not make a big difference, but those 970/980s seem to have too good of a reputation for audio to just ignore the question...

This unit does look like it could be a great final "hurrah" for the affordable, universal standard-def player...

How hard would it be for oppo to add video input and turn it into a video processor for all signals?Probably about $1500 hard. :)

larry

The Toshiba HD-A30 and the rebagged Integra have the ABT solution.

I'm assuming your just referring to scaling (i.e. ABT1018) and not de-interlacing?

I'm assuming your just referring to scaling (i.e. ABT1018) and not de-interlacing?
Both units have the VRS badge, which means they are de-interlacing and scaling using the ABT solution.

Quick question - So, the 983 will be on the same chassis as the 980, not the 981...does this mean it'll have the same "guts" for audio as the 980? I know it may not make a big difference, but those 970/980s seem to have too good of a reputation for audio to just ignore the question...

From the OP:

"This player is basically the processing of a VP50 added right inline with a 980."

So yes, it is designed to be a DV-980H with a better de-interlacing and scaling solution built ontop of it.

Hey Neuromancer -

I know this isn't the right venue, but has anyone suggested to Oppo to get into the digital media client/streamer busniess? Basically develope a "purer" version of the Netgear EVA8000?

This has been suggested, but resolutely shot down. The main reason for this is that doing customer support for a networked device is a pain in the ass. It is already problematic for their tech support to deal with simple things like HDMI and HDCP, native resolutions and audio resolution requirements. You do not want to compound this with DNS, DHCP, and other network problems that customers may have.

doing customer support for a networked device is a pain in the ass.

Very good point. Darn...

Both units have the VRS badge, which means they are de-interlacing and scaling using the ABT solution.

The Toshiba HD-DVD players DO NOT use a deinterlacer from Anchor Bay. Only the scaler (ABT1018) is from Anchor Bay.

The Toshiba HD-A30 and the rebagged Integra have the ABT solution.

The Onkyo HD-DVD player uses the Reon processor and AFAIK the same is also true of the Integra.

The Toshiba HD-DVD players DO NOT use a deinterlacer from Anchor Bay. Only the scaler (ABT1018) is from Anchor Bay.

I thought the VRS badge could only apply to players and receivers which use both the de-interlacing and scaling solution.

The Oppo DV-983 has the potential to provide exactly the same performance as an SDI modified DVD player connected to a DVDO iScan VP30 (MSRP $1999 + SDI Input Module $399) with the ABT102 ($499) Precision Deinterlacing card installed.

Cool. :) Any chance it could support 768p output (then no rescaling would be needed by a lot of displays) ?

I'm confused. "State of the art" is being mentioned yet it has the guts of the VP30.. not VP50? Isn't the VP30 two models back from "state of the art" which would be the VP50PRO?

The improvements in VP50, VP50PRO are mainly in the areas of handling HD input (1080i, 1080p) and crappy de-interlaced video (PReP). For a DVD player, there is no HD input to begin with and the source is (correctly) interlaced, so the VP30-based ABT chips are still "state of the art".

The Toshiba HD-DVD players DO NOT use a deinterlacer from Anchor Bay. Only the scaler (ABT1018) is from Anchor Bay.

Why would a manufacturer not use the excellent de-interlacing capabilities built into the ABT1018 and only use it as a scaler? Me no understand?!:confused:

Why would a manufacturer not use the excellent de-interlacing capabilities built into the ABT1018 and only use it as a scaler? Me no understand?!:confused:

According to Anchor Bay's website the ABT1018 is only a scaling chip.

Why would a manufacturer not use the excellent de-interlacing capabilities built into the ABT1018 and only use it as a scaler? Me no understand?!:confused:

They could choose the Reon for DI/IT. I think that solution is considered at least as good, if not slightly superior to anything else out there.

According to Anchor Bay's website the ABT1018 is only a scaling chip.

Josh? Can we get a definitive answer on this?

The improvements in VP50, VP50PRO are mainly in the areas of handling HD input (1080i, 1080p) and crappy de-interlaced video (PReP). For a DVD player, there is no HD input to begin with and the source is (correctly) interlaced, so the VP30-based ABT chips are still "state of the art".

Thanks for the explanation.

Neuro,

How does the ABT compare to the Reon for film-based picture quality?

I find them to be pretty much equal. The real benefit of the ABT solution is for off cadence and video de-interlacing and scaling. Being an anime junkie myself, I really like how the ABT can pretty much handle every content that is thrown at it. I've been working OPPO very hard on good anime reproduction.

According to Anchor Bay's website the ABT1018 is only a scaling chip.

Josh? Can we get a definitive answer on this?Bobloblaw is correct - the 1018 is only a scaling chip. It's not a deinterlacer. Was there a different question you needed an answer to?

- Dale Adams

From the OP:

"This player is basically the processing of a VP50 added right inline with a 980."

So yes, it is designed to be a DV-980H with a better de-interlacing and scaling solution built ontop of it.


Shoot...I didn't read closely enough. My bad. Thanks for taking the time to reply...

Bobloblaw is correct - the 1018 is only a scaling chip. It's not a deinterlacer. Was there a different question you needed an answer to?

- Dale Adams

Since you live in "Anchor Bay", I'll just assume you work there too.;) Thanks for the responce. I am somewhat disappointed that Oppo is going to rely on the MTK chip to do the de-interlacing since, and I think I must be in the minority here, both the 970 and 980 produce horrible combing artifacts with both video-based content and animation on my Sony 34XBR960 when I run them at 480p or higher via HDMI. No other DVD player I've owned has ever had this problem. And now that it looks like the 983 will also use the same MTK chip for de-interlacing, it seems pretty likely that the combing problem will still be there (at least in my setup) since it will probably be beyond the capabilities of the ABT scaler to clean up the gross errors that are happening in the de-interlacing stage.:( Damn it! And I was soooo hoping the 983 would be the answer to my problem. Oh well, I guess there's always the 981.:rolleyes:

It was the Toshiba HD-DVD players that were being discussed as not using an ABT chip for de-interlacing. The original post indicates that the 983H will use an ABT deinterlacing solution, so your disappointment is unnecessary.
It uses ABT 102 deinterlacing chip and ABT 1010 scaling engine.

It was the Toshiba HD-DVD players that were being discussed as not using an ABT chip for de-interlacing. The original post indicates that the 983H will use an ABT deinterlacing solution, so your disappointment is unnecessary.

Gonk,
The OP also stated that new 983 is the guts of the VP50 and now it is confirmed that it is the guts of the VP30. So we need confirmation of what chip is performing the deinterlacing.

I am somewhat disappointed that Oppo is going to rely on the MTK chip to do the de-interlacing since, and I think I must be in the minority here, both the 970 and 980 produce horrible combing artifacts with both video-based content and animation on my Sony 34XBR960 when I run them at 480p or higher via HDMI.

To be perfectly clear, the Oppo DV-983H uses Anchor Bay for deinterlacing (ABT102) and scaling (ABT1018). There are devices like the Toshiba HD-A20/A30/A35 that use Anchor Bay for scaling only. The main reason that more manufacturers don't uses Anchor Bay's deinterlacing is that the ABT102 is an FPGA implementation of these algorithms (versus an ASIC) which costs more than most manufacturers want to spend.

The VP30 (with ABT102 card installed) and the VP50 have exactly the same processing capabilties when it comes to deinterlacing standard definition. The VP50 does have a 10-bit input capability to this deinterlacer whereas the VP30 is limited by an 8-bit input. Given that we are talking about a DVD player implementation (8-bit) in the Oppo, this should not matter.

~stops sobbing~

Really?! OH JOY!!!

Seriously though, I totally forgot that the 983 will be using the ABT102 de-interlacer. Thanks for the slap back to reality!:D

Gonk,
The OP also stated that new 983 is the guts of the VP50 and now it is confirmed that it is the guts of the VP30. So we need confirmation of what chip is performing the deinterlacing.
Good point. It looks like we've gotten our confirmation, though... :)
To be perfectly clear, the Oppo DV-983H uses Anchor Bay for deinterlacing (ABT102) and scaling (ABT1018).

I can't wait now :)

Oppo... please provide CIH support for sub-titles and you'll have that market as no other player does it anymore.

"I want an Oppo-potomus for Christ-mas"

Seriously great news. I'm in for first order.

Great news. Oppo told me that they were planning some more "enthusiast"-geared players - looks like this is it!

So if the 983 is based off the 980, does it have component outs along with HDMI.

I ask because I currently use both HDMI (to PJ) and component outs to drive Zones 2 and 3 from a Samsung DVDP.

Dare to dream..... any chance of scaling on component outs (prob not) ?

Wasn't someone going to put up some pictures? =)

Wasn't someone going to put up some pictures? =)Perhaps a NDA prohibits further details concerning the 983H? You know I have always wondered how a company like Oppo would feel if a unannounced product is discussed at length before it's product release time? Rather a odd situation, perhaps even effecting sales of current models.

Actually, I have an older unit, so I have not bothered taking pictures of it. OPPO has not confirmed if my unit design with be final (save for adding USB).

Choices, choices, choices. If the DV-983H outputs 768p it may impact my choice of a new plasma. The Panasonic 10UK series (768x1366) allow 1:1 pixel mapping when the DVI card is used. My other option is the Pioneer 5080 that (as far as I know) does not allow 1:1 pixel mapping. I think I'd need to step up into the Elite line to get it. I watch mostly HDTV and (so far) standard DVDs. So, if the DV-983H outputs at 768p I can turn off all the display's video processing when watching movies if I buy the Panasonic equiped with the DVI card and use the DV-983H. Also, money matters and the Panasonic 10UK combined with the DV-983H would probably cost less than the Pioneer 5080 alone. One last thing, I probably would have purchased the DV-980H with the Pioneer 5080.

Is my logic correct? Anyone want to comment on the merits of my two choices?

Since 768p isn't a standard resolution (there's 3 common resolutions with 768 horizontal lines), if Oppo did it, they probably output all 3. :)

larry

will the 983 support 480i as the 980? thx a lot

It is planned, yes.

Does it also support Divx? DivxHD? H264? USB?

Just wondering how complete this solution will be. It already had me thinking about replacing my 981HD.

Thanks!

Same formats as the previous DVD players. It is using the same MTK solution. No HD, h.264 and other enhanced codec support.

Anchor Bay has screen shots of mosquito noise reduction processing done by the VP50 pro... the improvement to the image looks really good.

http://www.anchorbaytech.com/support/faq/vp50pro.php

Can the chips used in the 983H incorporate mosquito noise reduction?

The 983 sounds very similar to the $3200 (!) Arcam DV139, which I owned and sold. The Arcam is a very nice audio disk player, but considering there are few to no SACD and DVD-A releases I'm interested in these days, there are better ways to spend $3k...

Does the 983 have component outs along with HDMI?

yes but the component interface is not controlled by the ABT chipset.

I plan to purchase the next Oppo player. if it could take just one external input source (probably 1080i) and scale it to 1080p, it would be worth another $200 to me, easily. Seems like a rather simple add-on.

I don't mean to harp on DVDO, but I do not understand the economics of their low-end scaler pricing. How expensive are the chips in their VP30 series? If Oppo can sell them in a DVD player for $300, does the DVDO model really have to cost $2,000? Couldn't there be a reduced-strength version for $500? Yes, I understand economics, both that it is more expensive to build small-volume model and that one charges whatever the market allows---but this seems a rather stark pricing model. $400 is in range for most low-end home theaters. $2,000 is not.

Q: does DVDO make the scaler/deinterlacer chip? I guess if it does, than it would not allow Oppo to add an input source.

is there a clear target release date? I only saw "couple o' months."

regards,

/iaw

I plan to purchase the next Oppo player. if it could take just one external input source (probably 1080i) and scale it to 1080p, it would be worth another $200 to me, easily. Seems like a rather simple add-on.
Someone (probably Neuromancer) made a comment regarding this that made a lot of sense to me. When a chip like this is employed in a DVD player, the incoming signal is guaranteed to have a very fixed set of parameters. When a chip like this is used in a standalone video scaler (or even a scaler built into a receiver or processor), you have a very different situation because the incoming signal can (and inevitably will) be anything: 480i from a VCR or basic cable broadcast, 480i from a DVD, 480p from a progressive scan DVD player, 720p or 1080i from an HD broadcast, and so forth. As a result, the act of adding a single HDMI video input for an external source opens up a very large can of worms even before you consider the extra wrinkle in HDCP handshaking (which certainly can be overcome but requires attention). And if you want an analog video input, you just required the presence of another bit of hardware to convert that analog video signal (component, s-video, or composite) to digital so that the video processing can be applied to it. Then there's audio signal management, which either needs to be omitted (thus placing the burden of getting that external source's audio to its final destination on the user) or needs to decide how to address possible stereo analog, coaxial/optical digital, or HDMI digital audio inputs and the associated player outputs.

I think for $349 price, this model must be also a HD-DVD Player (Pic BBK/Oppo):

http://stor-age.zdnet.com.cn/stor-age/2007/0907/495415.shtml

I think for $349 price, this model must be also a HD-DVD Player

Well it should be. :)

I plan to purchase the next Oppo player. if it could take just one external input source (probably 1080i) and scale it to 1080p, it would be worth another $200 to me, easily. Seems like a rather simple add-on.

I don't mean to harp on DVDO, but I do not understand the economics of their low-end scaler pricing. How expensive are the chips in their VP30 series? If Oppo can sell them in a DVD player for $300, does the DVDO model really have to cost $2,000? Couldn't there be a reduced-strength version for $500? Yes, I understand economics, both that it is more expensive to build small-volume model and that one charges whatever the market allows---but this seems a rather stark pricing model. $400 is in range for most low-end home theaters. $2,000 is not.

Q: does DVDO make the scaler/deinterlacer chip? I guess if it does, than it would not allow Oppo to add an input source.

is there a clear target release date? I only saw "couple o' months."

regards,

/iaw
The 983 is not going to be a full feature video processor with multiple video inputs (and audio inputs for pass-thru, I think), variable video timings, etc.

larry

I think for $349 price, this model must be also a HD-DVD Player (Pic BBK/Oppo):

http://stor-age.zdnet.com.cn/stor-age/2007/0907/495415.shtml
A BBK version of the HD-A30? The identical Haier-branded player next to it does have an HD-DVD logo on it (and in a spot where the BBK player has a sticker on it), and they are both a spitting image of the A30, so it would seem to be an HD-DVD player...

The one feature I'd love to see included on the 983, and to my knowledge no other player offers this, is the ability to take stereo and/or multichannel DSD and output it as stereo 88.2/24 or 96/24 LPCM over SPDIF and TOSlink. I know it can do this over HDMI, but for people who don't have HDMI receivers and don't plan on getting one anytime soon, this would be a great feature. Anyone agree or dissagree?

S/PDIF hardware doesn't multi-channel PCM data rates (which has nothing to do with the interconnect medium). 96Khz 2ch works, not sure if 88.2Khz with 2ch would work or not - I don't see why not. I don't know if the protocol has certain rates spec'd or not.

larry

I think for $349 price, this model must be also a HD-DVD Player (Pic BBK/Oppo):

http://stor-age.zdnet.com.cn/stor-age/2007/0907/495415.shtml

No. OPPO does not have any HD-DVD or Blu-Ray plans. I can guarantee this.

BBK is doing a CH-DVD which is a Chinese only HD DVD format designed with extra copyright protection. This is not designed for any other market.

The one feature I'd love to see included on the 983, and to my knowledge no other player offers this, is the ability to take stereo and/or multichannel DSD and output it as stereo 88.2/24 or 96/24 LPCM over SPDIF and TOSlink.

DRM does not allow for SACD media to be distributed through optical or coaxial at all.

yes but the component interface is not controlled by the ABT chipset.

Thanks. I would only use it to drive secondary zones 2 and 3 (non critical viewing). I will use HDMI to drive the main projector in the HT. Works for me. :)

The one feature I'd love to see included on the 983, and to my knowledge no other player offers this, is the ability to take stereo and/or multichannel DSD and output it as stereo 88.2/24 or 96/24 LPCM over SPDIF and TOSlink. I know it can do this over HDMI, but for people who don't have HDMI receivers and don't plan on getting one anytime soon, this would be a great feature. Anyone agree or dissagree?

Agree! I'd love to use this player in my two-channel system, and output audio to my DAC (which accepts 24/96).

I would love to see the USB 2.0 connector handle WAV or FLAC files. I would then plug in an external hard drive and use it as a media server.

R

DRM does not allow for SACD media to be distributed through optical or coaxial at all.
Maybe Oppo can figure out some sort of "workaround" like they did with regional coding and HD-over-component? ;) Sure'd be nice of 'em! :D

Maybe Oppo can figure out some sort of "workaround" like they did with regional coding and HD-over-component? ;) Sure'd be nice of 'em! :D
There's not a workaround to be had with SACD via optical/coaxial. The interface doesn't have the bandwidth to carry six channels of uncompressed digital data. Component connections have been carrying 720p and 1080i data for as long as HD content has been in the marketplace and region coding mods are almost as old as DVD players, but you simply can't push SACD or DVD-Audio across coax or optical. Probably the only method that would work and be understandable to any existing surround receiver would be to re-encode to Dolby Digital or DTS like some of the HD-DVD and Blu-ray players have been doing, and that means applying lossy compression to a lossless format...

I think it is more of a hardware issue than it is a software issue.

Optical/coaxial don't have the bandwidth to carry six channels of uncompressed digital data.

I know. But they do have the ability to pass stereo 96/24 LPCM. Both the 970 and 980 have no problem outputing 96/24 from either the unaltered stereo mix of a DVD-A or by downmixing the multichannel mix into stereo 96/24. All I am hoping for is for the 983 to be able to do this with SACD as well.:)

Does anyone know when Oppo will reveal the full feature set of this player? I imagine there are a number of folks who are interested in purchasing one of their other players but the promise of the 983H has them waiting...like me.

There is no release date planned for the player. Until the product has been completely locked down, I wouldn't expect any of the specifications to be released.

Well, at least I tried! I e-mailed Oppo yesterday about supporting DSD-to-PCM over coax/optical and they comfirmed that DRM is the reason no company can support it. Oh well. To Oppo's credit, they responded to my e-mail in less then 24hrs! :eek: These guys are really on top of their game!

Here's my e-mail to Oppo and their responce:


Chris,

Unfortunately Digital Rights Management (DRM) does not allow for the transfer of SACD media through optical or coaxial. You must use analog or HDMI for SACD media. DVD-Audio will allow for 24-bit/192Khz 2.0 Stereo through optical and coaxial, however. This too is a restriction of DRM.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
453 Ravendale Dr, Suite D Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris
Sent: Sun 9/23/2007 1:07 PM
To: OPPO Service
Subject: DV-983

First of all, thanks for making such great products. You guys really do
a great job. And it looks like the 983 is going to be another excellent
player. I'm sure you have received a bunch of requests for the 983 to
include this feature and that feature, but there is one feature that I
haven't seen on any other player yet and of all the AV companies out
there, Oppo would be the company most likely to be able to include it.
What I'm talking about is the ability to convert stereo or multichannel
DSD into 88.2/24 or 96/24 stereo PCM and allow it to be output over
standard SPDIF or TOSlink. As you well know, the 970 and 980 can take
any stereo or multichannel DVD-A and output it at up to 96/24 stereo.
They can also convert DSD to 88.2/24 PCM and output it over HDMI. So it
seems, at least empirically, that it would be relatively simple to
support this feature. And by doing so, it would allow anyone who owned
even a low-cost surround-sound receiver to experience the huge
improvement in sound quality that can be delivered by both hi-rez audio
formats. Although they wouldn't be able hear it in multichannel, most
hi-rez releases are not nearly as dynamically compressed as the standard
CD versions are. This alone makes for an instantly noticeable
improvement in sound quality and could help open peoples eyes and ears
to the fact that the hi-rez audio formats can and often do offer an
extremely enjoyable listening experience.

Thank you for your time, and please if possible, support DSD-to-PCM over
SPDIF and TOSlink.

There's not a workaround to be had with SACD via optical/coaxial. The interface doesn't have the bandwidth to carry six channels of uncompressed digital data.

The original poster asked for STEREO.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9728163#post9728163

:D

Is it anticipated that the 983 will be multi-region capable with the secret hack?

Dana

Yes.

The Oppo DV-983 has the potential to provide exactly the same performance as an SDI modified DVD player connected to a DVDO iScan VP30 (MSRP $1999 + SDI Input Module $399) with the ABT102 ($499) Precision Deinterlacing card installed.

Ok, I think I'm gonna cry.... or buy the VP50 Pro, instead...

So, it will play SACD's as my 981HD does? Also, will it be silver or black? Gotta h\have black or I ain't buyin' it. Is there an HD-DVD player that has both scaling and deinterlacing that equals the 983?

Black. DVD-Audio and SACD playback included.

Was there ever an answer as to whether or not this player would support 1080p 24 fps like the HD-XA2 with 2.5 firmware update?

Sounds great, but it's still 480p. Even if it's the best standard DVD image ever, I'll have to think about it. Time's almost up for any 480p DVD player and I've happily owned the 971 and now the 981HD.

Will this processing outdo the Toshiba top of the line HD-DVD player or the scaling players when it comes to standard def playback?

How's the zoom on this thing? Will we finally be able to watch our letterboxed DVDs properly deinterlaced and full screen?

And the resolution loss on 4:3 stuff. All fixed?

Was there ever an answer as to whether or not this player would support 1080p 24 fps like the HD-XA2 with 2.5 firmware update?

Not at the moment, no.

How's the zoom on this thing? Will we finally be able to watch our letterboxed DVDs properly deinterlaced and full screen?

Zoom is there, but it is the same Zoom scheme of the previous players at this time.
And the resolution loss on 4:3 stuff. All fixed?

Can't really comment on this, since the firmware is nowhere near complete.

Zoom is there, but it is the same Zoom scheme of the previous players at this time.

Ooh . . . that's a deal-killer for me. My 981 will do me just fine then.

I think for $349 price, this model must be also a HD-DVD Player (Pic BBK/Oppo):

http://stor-age.zdnet.com.cn/stor-age/2007/0907/495415.shtml
Those look to be re badged toshiba units. A marketing ploy by Toshiba really to show they have backing by large Chinese manufacturers. For $350 with a ABT chip, the 983 will more than likely not have HD-DVD playback.

No. OPPO does not have any HD-DVD or Blu-Ray plans. I can guarantee this.

Straight from the horses mouth guys. NO HD! Maybe next year :).

Neuro,
I was just about to leap and get the 981 based on your feedback (and others) but will the 983 offer an improved PAL playback over the 980, similar to the 981? If it can offer this plus all the other features, it sounds like I should save my pennies for Xmas.....:D

PAL will be as good as if not better than the DV-981HD. The ABT chipset is a cadence machine, and it has been designed to appropriately de-interlace and scale most cadences, including those used for PAL encoding.

Those look to be re badged toshiba units. A marketing ploy by Toshiba really to show they have backing by large Chinese manufacturers.

More likely: The Toshiba is a rebadged BBK. ;)

Many thanks. Now I'm looking forward to your report on the 983 when it's offical and the NDA expires!

OK, I had the 971. My previous player the Denon 3910 looked only slightly better IMO, so I sold the 3910, pocketed the difference and tried what was then a player from an almost unheard of new company called OPPO. Happily surprised by the 971's quality, I traded over for the 981HD to gain SACD playback and all was good. Now they're coming out with a new player with a higher end scaling/deinterlacing solution and no macroblocking. I don't see any macroblocking on my IN72 display and I'm wondering if it's worth bothering to squeeze the last drop of pq improvement from the 480p format or figure out which HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player has an almost equal standard def pq (if there is one) and get that. Opinions, help ?

OK, I had the 971. My previous player the Denon 3910 looked only slightly better IMO, so I sold the 3910, pocketed the difference and tried what was then a player from an almost unheard of new company called OPPO. Happily surprised by the 971's quality, I traded over for the 981HD to gain SACD playback and all was good. Now they're coming out with a new player with a higher end scaling/deinterlacing solution and no macroblocking. I don't see any macroblocking on my IN72 display and I'm wondering if it's worth bothering to squeeze the last drop of pq improvement from the 480p format or figure out which HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player has an almost equal standard def pq (if there is one) and get that. Opinions, help ?

It's not like the 983 is coming out tomorrow. You'll have a little time to think about it. Watch the market, watch the prices. Wait till the official specs for the 983 come out and then make an educated decision.
In the mean time, if you have to buy something from Oppo, I was just at the website and found something new -> http://www.oppodigital.com/hm31/ .

Thanks for the link Smart-pants, the switcher look fantastic. I'll wait a bit while researching HD players.

It would be interesting if BBK is the manufacture of the Toshiba HD player in China. They are one of the largest manufactures of players and as we know they own Oppo. It would be great to have a HD player from Oppo with their special tweaks.

Does it up-convert over component or for that matter even have component connections?

It has component. And likely the component interface will allow for limited upconversion, as it is currently sharing the same MTK solution as the DV-980H

Here are some pics I took at Cedia (sorry they are not that great).

You're right, they're not that great. (just kidding :)) Better than nothing though. Thanks for posting them. Really wish we could get ahold of a nice pic of the entire rear-view. Too bad all the NDA contracts are keeping us from seeing that. I can't believe no one else got any decent pics. Oh well, soon enough.

It looks the same as the 980 rear except it has a usb and a RS232 port on the back. It is basically the same player except a different main board from the 980.

Besides where are your pics? :p

It looks the same as the 980 rear except it has a usb and a RS232 port on the back. It is basically the same player except a different main board from the 980.

Besides where are your pics? :p

Well, it's a bit of haul all the way from Ohio, and no one to raise my 3yr old and 1yr old while I'm gone. Would've been nice to get away though... real nice :D.

Thanks for the pics, Jon. It looks like the front panel got tweaked a bit from the 980H when the USB port was removed - the "HDMI" button is directly alongside the display on the 983H, with the transport/navigation controls to the right of it (out of frame, but assuming they're still there). Still, definitely looks like it borrows heavily from the 980H's foundations...

The current design of the DV-983H does not have the navigational circle of the DV-980H. There is only HDMI, Eject, Play/Pause and Stop.

So knowing what scaling and deinterlacing technology the 983 uses, any educated guesses on how the image quality will compare vs. previous Oppo models or even HTPC graphics card upconverting?

Hi, First post to this board. I'm looking at getting an oppo, and thought I would check to see if anything new was in the works. Looks like there is!

I really need 24fps output so that new 120Hz HDTVs with 24fps input will produce the best picture. 99% of my content is DVD movies. I also need good PAL support and obviously all the region flexibility.

I'm hoping this new player will offer it. However, It seems like all this great deinterlacer stuff with inverse 3:2 pulldown and the equivalent for PAL will all be wasted if they just send the frames out as they are recorded on the disc? So if one was going to use 24fps almost all the time, maybe a cheaper player is all that is required? Am I missing something?

Is there any current standard dvd player that can so 24fps output? Will the HD-DVD or BlueRay players that have 24fps output also output 24fps with standard DVDs?

Thanks!

So knowing what scaling and deinterlacing technology the 983 uses, any educated guesses on how the image quality will compare vs. previous Oppo models or even HTPC graphics card upconverting?

Should be better in all regards to the previous generation players due to the incorporation of the sound design of the DV-980H with the quality de-interlacing and scaling of the ABT solution.

Is there any current standard dvd player that can so 24fps output? Will the HD-DVD or BlueRay players that have 24fps output also output 24fps with standard DVDs?

The answer to both questions is "no", at least according to my knowledge.

First post on this thread.

Lucky for me that I read these threads.
I was going to buy the 980 (mainly for audio side)but the 983 will grace my rack as soon as it hits.
I have not yet owned an oppo but looking forward to it (always look forward to getting a new toy)
SO, back to waiting

Will the HD-DVD or BlueRay players that have 24fps output also output 24fps with standard DVDs?

Thanks!

I believe that the Toshiba XA2 and A20 with the 2.5 firmware do this. Check the HD DVD forum for confirmation.

Thanks Neuromancer. I will assume then that it will, like the DV980H, pass non-copyrighted HD over component.

I believe that the Toshiba XA2 and A20 with the 2.5 firmware do this. Check the HD DVD forum for confirmation.

They do for HD DVD playback. Don't think they support this for DVD.

^^^ Like bobloblaw said, folks in the HD-DVD forum are reporting 1080/24p input to displays with SD-DVD playback. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=908823

Although it's at 24.00Hz, not 23.98(?). So every 40 seconds there's a slight studder. :) The new 3rd gens do it correctly, IIRC.

larry

will this play DVD-A disks??

Yes, it's a "fully" universal player.

larry

If it can do this one thing, I will happily ditch my Denon DVD-3910:

Output HDMI and component simultaneously. I have a older RPTV HDTV that only accepts component, but my AV receiver can decode DSD and PCM via HDMI.

The DV-970HD and the DV-980H already do this. The only downfall is that the HDMI resolution dictates the component resolution, thereby making it hard to output 1080p to HDMI and only 480i/1080i through component.

If it can do this one thing, I will happily ditch my Denon DVD-3910:

Output HDMI and component simultaneously. I have a older RPTV HDTV that only accepts component, but my AV receiver can decode DSD and PCM via HDMI.

All of Oppo's outputs are always 'live.' You can turn various audio outputs on and off in the menu such as HDMI audio, but otherwise all of the audio/video outputs are always on.

The DV-970HD and the DV-980H already do this. The only downfall is that the HDMI resolution dictates the component resolution, thereby making it hard to output 1080p to HDMI and only 480i/1080i through component.

All of Oppo's outputs are always 'live.' You can turn various audio outputs on and off in the menu such as HDMI audio, but otherwise all of the audio/video outputs are always on.

OK great news! Thanks for the clarification guys.

So, I should have no problem outputing DSD via HDMI and running 480p via component (or 1080i) to my RPTV? I though that with the 980HD, you had to select 720p or above to get the HMDI to spit out DSD over HDMI.

Oh wait... didn't you guys say that the component output will not utilize the ABT chipsets :(

At this time it is separate from the ABT solution, much like the OPDV971H used the Faroudja chipset for the DVI output only.

:D Thanks for the link to the HD form... AMAZING!!! :eek:

I'm sending the link to OPPO, they need to get to work on this. Their universal player could be king with 24Hz output.

:D:D

will it convert DSD to pcm like the 981?

So, I should have no problem outputing DSD via HDMI and running 480p via component (or 1080i) to my RPTV? I though that with the 980HD, you had to select 720p or above to get the HMDI to spit out DSD over HDMI.

Yes, 480i/p will not sent SACD content properly - whether as DSD or decoded LPCM. You will need to choose 1080i out.

I really need 24fps output so that new 120Hz HDTVs with 24fps input will produce the best picture. 99% of my content is DVD movies. I also need good PAL support and obviously all the region flexibility.

FYI: To the best of my knowledge, NO 120Hz LCD will perform 5:5 pulldown on 24fps input (1080p/24). i.e. they still do the 3:2 progressive cadence!

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong....

You're right. :) The 120 Hz thing is an internal refresh rate specifically meant to help with LCD's inherent problem with motion (vs plasma, for example). I don't know of any display today that will accept a 120 Hz signal.

After this, what will OPPO do next? Gotta be a high def player, otherwise, they'll be out of the DVD player business in two years or less.

After this, what will OPPO do next? Gotta be a high def player, otherwise, they'll be out of the DVD player business in two years or less.
Well, they didn't get to where they are today (in less than 3 years) by making wrong decisions. :) I'm sure they will create a HD player of some sorts soon enough, but it looks like they don't have any plans as of right now. Just a matter of time I'm sure.

:D Thanks for the link to the HD form... AMAZING!!! :eek:

I'm sending the link to OPPO, they need to get to work on this. Their universal player could be king with 24Hz output.

:D:D
Aren't DVDs encoded at 30 frames, so I don't see why all the fuss about 24 frames output?? :shrugs:

After this, what will OPPO do next? Gotta be a high def player, otherwise, they'll be out of the DVD player business in two years or less.

This is DVD's Swan Song. OPPO wants to go out with a bang before they go into the HD DVD and Blu-Ray realm.

This is DVD's Swan Song. OPPO wants to go out with a bang before they go into the HD DVD and Blu-Ray realm.

And I bet they'll arrive there with a bang! ;-)

Are these up-converting technologies better than HQV as implemented in the Samsung BD-P1200?

If you are talking about raw processing and de-interlacing/scaling accuracy, the ABT chipset and the HQV chipsets are much on par. The advantage of HQV is that it has noise reduction controls, which are not a part of the ABT solution utilized in the DV-980H.

If you are talking about raw processing and de-interlacing/scaling accuracy, the ABT chipset and the HQV chipsets are much on par. The advantage of HQV is that it has noise reduction controls, which are not a part of the ABT solution utilized in the DV-980H.
Thanks, Neuromancer.

Aren't DVDs encoded at 30 frames, so I don't see why all the fuss about 24 frames output?? :shrugs:

Yes, but the underlying content (movies) is typically 24fps. Being able to output the native frame-rate of the content is a big deal when you have displays can can output frame-rates at integer values of 24 - like 48, 72, 96, or 120 Hz, which typicaly require a 1080p/24 input signal.

Here's a rather obscure wishlist item: will the new Oppo offer more comprehensive information on the output format of what's being played? (eg: format/sample rate/bit depth/channel number) . My 970HD is pretty stingy in this regard, though it was a feature of every other SACD/DVDA player I've owned.

Yes, but the underlying content (movies) is typically 24fps. Being able to output the native frame-rate of the content is a big deal when you have displays can can output frame-rates at integer values of 24 - like 48, 72, 96, or 120 Hz, which typicaly require a 1080p/24 input signal.

The biggest issue I have is that you have to do a reverse telecine. If the original master was 24 frames then the inherent benefits are greater. With a source which is 60i you run into issue of poor frame conversion, incorrect dropped frames, or audio synchronization errors if you are using incorrect algorithms.

Much like we see visual errors with mixed and video cadences due to improper media flagging, the same can occur for a 24Hz output of an original 60i source.

Here's a rather obscure wishlist item: will the new Oppo offer more comprehensive information on the output format of what's being played? (eg: format/sample rate/bit depth/channel number) . My 970HD is pretty stingy in this regard, though it was a feature of every other SACD/DVDA player I've owned.

As the core decoding chipset is the same: unlikely.

I too would really like to see 24Hz output.

This is the one thing that is really missing on DVD players and TV's.

I too would really like to see 24Hz output.

This is the one thing that is really missing on DVD players and TV's.


+100 Absolutely this might indeed be their last SD-DVD universal player, we need 24Hz output. Almost all my viewing is DVD, this would really help maintain the life of peoples existing SD-DVD library.

This would be a killer feature the rest is nice, but nothing shattering.

Well according to the HD thread, we can at least use the A20, and just have two players. When PAL and region need to changing or the source is not 24fps use the oppo. The AX2 might also be an option if they fix the little frequency sync issue.

Yeah ... I'm definitely interested in the upcoming 3rd gen HD DVD players that fixed the 24Hz synch issue.

I'll probably end up getting one of the ones with Reon in it as my 'dedicated' DVD player.

Are these up-converting technologies better than HQV as implemented in the Samsung BD-P1200?

If you are talking about raw processing and de-interlacing/scaling accuracy, the ABT chipset and the HQV chipsets are much on par. The advantage of HQV is that it has noise reduction controls, which are not a part of the ABT solution utilized in the DV-980H.

It has always surprised me to see the new HD format players being regarded as good upconverters of SD-DVD. This flys in the face of the theory that dedicated units perform better than "jack of all trades" electronics. For example, I wouldn't assume a $400 DVD player would handle CDs as well as a $400 CD player.

Are you saying then that we might as well skip the Oppo and put our money towards an HD player?

Mark

Unless the HD player also does SACD, DVD-A, and HDCD, I wouldn't

It has always surprised me to see the new HD format players being regarded as good upconverters of SD-DVD. This flys in the face of the theory that dedicated units perform better than "jack of all trades" electronics. For example, I wouldn't assume a $400 DVD player would handle CDs as well as a $400 CD player.

Are you saying then that we might as well skip the Oppo and put our money towards an HD player?

Mark

As krabapple points out ... no, if you need a universal.


Some of the HD DVD and BD players are a bit of an anomaly, since they offer things like HQV Reon at a price point that's pretty sweet. DVD players haven't caught up to offering that at a competative pricepoint.


That said, if your don't necessarily need the noise reduction Reon offers (nor 24Hz out if the Oppo doesn't offer it) ... the 983 is going to certainly be cheaper than the Reon-equipped next-gen players. And its overall de-interlacing and scaling should be about as good (actually its cadence detection is likely better than Reon for irregular stuff like anime ... you need Realta to reach that level).


I'll probably end up with both :p

yes but the component interface is not controlled by the ABT chipset.
So component-wise would it be identical to the 980H (including upscaling of non-protected discs)?

As it is now, that is correct.

Well according to the HD thread, we can at least use the A20, and just have two players. When PAL and region need to changing or the source is not 24fps use the oppo. The AX2 might also be an option if they fix the little frequency sync issue.

That's the setup I have,an Oppo 970 and a A20.
The 983 sounds interesting BUT I think the price point is a little high considering you can get a A20/A30 with a ABT chip for the same price.

why dont they make a changer too

As krabapple points out ... no, if you need a universal.

Some of the HD DVD and BD players are a bit of an anomaly, since they offer things like HQV Reon at a price point that's pretty sweet. DVD players haven't caught up to offering that at a competative pricepoint.

That said, if your don't necessarily need the noise reduction Reon offers (nor 24Hz out if the Oppo doesn't offer it) ... the 983 is going to certainly be cheaper than the Reon-equipped next-gen players. And its overall de-interlacing and scaling should be about as good (actually its cadence detection is likely better than Reon for irregular stuff like anime ... you need Realta to reach that level).

I own probably 5 DVD-A and 3 SACD titles but I've given up on those formats for awhile. Right now I have a Pioneer Elite DV-45A paired with a Sony WEGA XBR 34" CRT and I'm looking to maximize my picture with SD-DVD. Have looked at Marantz's DV-9600, Denon's DVD-3930. I also happened to read a bit about Anchor Bay's DVDO scalers. At the moment, it sounds like the new 983H could be the perfect solution.

Mark.

Aye. I just learned of the 980H making my 981HD look outdated, now there's another? YUM.

why dont they make a changer too

Changers break down too easily. To ensure that best quality product, they are sticking to single disc solutions.

That's the setup I have,an Oppo 970 and a A20.
The 983 sounds interesting BUT I think the price point is a little high considering you can get a A20/A30 with a ABT chip for the same price.

The A20/A30 only have ABT scaling, not the precision deinterlacing that comes with the ABT102 chip in the 983. See this this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11631136#post11631136) post earlier in this thread.

Aye. I just learned of the 980H making my 981HD look outdated, now there's another? YUM.

I wouldn't say that the 980H makes your 981HD outdated. The only things that th e980H offers over the 981HD are a component video output and a 7.1 analog output (instead of 5.1). The 981HD still has a more sophisticated video chip.

They should just make it a pure transport w/ HDMI, IR In/Out, RS232, composite, and digital coax for $199.

It's going to be tough justifying this over an HD DVD player especially if they get reviewed as having good deinterlacing.

DVD is dying and Oppo's designing products that are more $$$. Who can blame them? It will sell, kind of.

I'm trying to keep my HDMI devices under 4.

*I'll second the changer comment below, but take credit for it as if I said it first :).

why dont they make a changer too

I would be ALL OVER that! :eek:

DVD is dying and Oppo's designing products that are more $$$. Who can blame them? It will sell, kind of.

You answer your own inquiry. The reason why OPPO is offering a top tier DVD player is precisely because DVD players will become a more niche product. If you look at it from a manufacturer's standpoint, a high-end piece of equipment is a great way of increasing your brand awareness.

The type of people who will be buying the DV-983H are not the typical consumer (ie. brick and mortor purchasers) who is going to be driven by comparative costs. OPPO is not interested in these consumers, as their purpose right now is brand building. The unit will not be a large seller, but it will be economically profitable and increase OPPO brand awareness.

The reason why OPPO is offering a top tier DVD player is precisely because DVD players will become a more niche product.

I think this new DVD player could do extremely well in PAL territories. There are probably many home theatre enthusiasts who bought Region 1 & Region 3 DVD's over their native Region 2 or Region 4. Movies on PAL suffer from a 4% speed up. Movies aimed at NTSC displays don't. Many people therefore bought Region 1 and suffered the resolution drop over the 4% speedup. Also in the early days of DVD, Region 1 had a much larger catalog and better extras. And still to this day a movie is likely to be released on Region 1 DVD many months before it has a Region 2 or 4 release. In some cases a movie is available on R1 even before it has hit the theatre in PAL territories.

As far as I am aware, no HD-DVD player or Blu-Ray player gives the ability to play DVD's outside its region. And there is no unlock to be able to do this. Therefore those people in PAL territories wanting the best for their legacy DVD's will be looking for DVD players that allow them to get the best out of their legacy DVD collection on their HD displays.

It seems like all this great deinterlacer stuff with inverse 3:2 pulldown and the equivalent for PAL will all be wasted if they just send the frames out as they are recorded on the disc? So if one was going to use 24fps almost all the time, maybe a cheaper player is all that is required? Am I missing something? I noticed that nobody has answered this question.

Even if film frames are stored progressively on a DVD, the MPEG decoder chip always outputs interlaced fields. That's why a deinterlacer is required to reassemble the progressive frames.

In theory, an MPEG decoder could be designed to output progressive frames, but how would it handle 60fps video content then? It cannot rely on the progressive/interlaced flags on the DVD, because they are notoriously inaccurate. The DVD format was originally created for interlaced playback, so it does not guarantee flawless progressive frames. In fact, the majority of DVDs are riddled with problems, such as mixed progressive/interlaced frames, bad edits, and incorrect or alternating flags. The decoder would go bonkers in such conditions.

So a cheaper player is not the answer... a sophisticated deinterlacing processor is required to detect the cadence correctly (in spite of what the flags may say) and then to reassemble progressive frames or perform sensible motion-adaptive de-interlacing on interlaced material.

Gary

+100 Absolutely this might indeed be their last SD-DVD universal player, we need 24Hz output. Almost all my viewing is DVD, this would really help maintain the life of peoples existing SD-DVD library.

1080p24 only helps if your display accepts it, and then if it has an internal refresh rate that is a multiple of 24. (Some Pio plasmas refresh at 72Hz.) Otherwise, you have the same old judder problem of 24fps to 60Hz, which is what most displays work at. A 1080p24 player is useless if the display can't properly use that output.

i just got the oppo 981 - using it with sony xbr4 32 inch

i heard that its the best of the bunch right now - but do you think the 980H is better ??

i read reviews that say the 981 has the better processor
but the 980H is the newer model -

so far the 981 shows great - any advice as to which is better or worse and for what reason - or better yet - which would be better for my set -- if anyone else has the 32 inch xbr4

thanks

The 981HD (http://www.prillaman.net/oppo981_review.html) offers better video performance than the 980H (http://www.prillaman.net/oppo980_review.html) as long as macroblocking is not a problem (which it shouldn't be with your display). Just because the 980H is newer doesn't change this: as I posted the other day, the 981HD uses a separate dedicated chip for scaling and deinterlacing (the Genesis Faroudja) that can produce a smoother picture than the Mediatek chip can by itself. The 980H has a better multichannel analog section (which, as far as I can tell, you wouldn't be using either way) and some might find it to be a more handsome piece of hardware (I prefer the industrial design of the 980H to the 981HD), but that doesn't change the fact that the 981HD costs $60 more for a very specific reason.

thanks for that information - i just started to get into video now - i always was into to this but not like now since flat screens came out - and i have to learn all the new stuff -
i used to be into more audio high end - but thats over 10 years ago -- now i am back and i almost forget how hard it can be picking the right equipment --

i just watching another movie with the 981 -- the dvd movie had about 3% compression so basically just as good as the real deal and the picture was very clear - there were alot of up close face shots - theater dancing - and the sounds was great --

sometimes you expect way too much - and feel disappointed - you really have to sit back and really watch and use it for a few weeks - tv and player -

i tell you - it feels very hd like - but of course - its not close to the real blu ray - but hey - its damn good from reg. dvd -- i used the 720p output --

i just hope i didnt lose out from getting the 983 which is coming out soon -- i didnt know anything till i found this forum about this oppo -- so i though the 981 was very new but its about a year old almost - but i am happy so far - if the rest of my movie dvd can look as good as the few i watched already -- thats enough to seal the deal

One thing about the 983, will it upscale to 720p and 1080p only, or will it also upscale to other resolutions as it's using DVDO's chips? Could be useful to bypass some panels' scalers.

At this time only the standard HD resolutions are supported. We will not know if 1:1 mapping options will be a part of the device until more functionality is released by OPPO.

i just hope i didnt lose out from getting the 983 which is coming out soon

There are only two situations really where the DV-983H will trump the DV-981HD. The first is no macroblock enhancement errors. The DV-983H will not macroblock enhance, so the overall picture should appear cleaner and sharper.

The second is if you are going to be watching television, video, heavily mixed media or animated contents. These contents usually throw off most video processors, including the Faroudja chipset. For me the DV-983H is the perfect player, as it handles animated contents nearly perfectly, while the DV-981HD would show interlacing and aliasing errors on the same contents.

I mentioned this before, but was hoping to get some futher clarification. What options will we have for 4:3 material with the 983H? Just standard black bars on the side, or stretch to fill? An ideal scenario would be cropping the top and bottom a la the Panasonic RP-91K. That would make the most out of those few non-anamorphic DVDs still around.

At this time only the standard HD resolutions are supported. We will not know if 1:1 mapping options will be a part of the device until more functionality is released by OPPO.

Ok, but would be great, wouldn't it?

There are only two situations really where the DV-983H will trump the DV-981HD. The first is no macroblock enhancement errors. The DV-983H will not macroblock enhance, so the overall picture should appear cleaner and sharper.

The second is if you are going to be watching television, video, heavily mixed media or animated contents. These contents usually throw off most video processors, including the Faroudja chipset. For me the DV-983H is the perfect player, as it handles animated contents nearly perfectly, while the DV-981HD would show interlacing and aliasing errors on the same contents.

I planed on buying the Oppo 980, will the 983 be better than the 980?

I mentioned this before, but was hoping to get some futher clarification. What options will we have for 4:3 material with the 983H? Just standard black bars on the side, or stretch to fill? An ideal scenario would be cropping the top and bottom a la the Panasonic RP-91K. That would make the most out of those few non-anamorphic DVDs still around.

The current design of the player follows the previous Zoom designs of OPPO products. As state previously, OPPO is working diligently on this product, and are continually adding new features. A Zoom and Crop Zoom will likely make it to the final product, but the unit I have still uses the standard Zoom controls of previous OPPO players.

I planed on buying the Oppo 980, will the 983 be better than the 980?

Yes, in every regard.

...As state previously, OPPO is working diligently on this product, and are continually adding new features. A Zoom and Crop Zoom will likely make it to the final product...

I certainly hope so.
A cropping zoom, underscan zoom, and a proper stretch/scaling function for constant image height. Don't take no for an answer Neuro.:)

A vertical stretch and a 12v trigger out would make this player the greatest of all time. That way we can all save our money for the anamorphic lens.

-LA

Yes, that's another thing. Oppo, would you please start making and selling quality, yet affordable, anamorphic lenses?
Thank you. :)

Neuromancer,

Can you pass along the want for 24hz (23.976Hz) output of DVD's?




The intended market for this unit (as you have stated), is a bit of the more high-end users. My fear is that if this isn't included, the small delta between this and a HD-DVD player that offers it will be considered worth it.

I know I personally would move in that direction.

Can you pass along the want for 24hz (23.976Hz) output of DVD's?

They are well aware of the desire for 24Hz support. It is a matter of implementing it through software.

Will this unit top 981 when it comes to picture quality?

Yes.

After reading some of the threads here, I am convinced I want to get an Oppo. I have a Panny 50PZ700U. I have read that the 981HD has macroblocking issues with plasmas. Should I wait for the 983H or just get the 980H? Any advice?

If you have money to burn, then you will want to look at the DV-983H when it is eventually released. Otherwise, I would recommend going with the DV-980H for your DVD needs.

What does sacd dsd over hdmi to compatable receivers mean? Do you have to have a special receiver to decode the dsd bitstream? Planning on buying Emotivas new LMC2/LPA1 combo when they come out which have hdmi 1.3 ports.

Not all receivers which support DSD will accept it over HDMI. Many HDMI 1.3a receivers will, but it is not a requirement. You will want to contact the manufacturer of your receiver for information about SACD DSD audio support through the HDMI interface.

They are well aware of the desire for 24Hz support. It is a matter of implementing it through software.

Thanks ... just make sure they realize it needs to be NTSC (23.976) ... and not 24Hz like the current HD DVD players.

Anchor Bay's Precision Deinterlacing is considered one of the best, if not the best, deinterlacing solutions. It is a 10-bit Motion, Edge and Source Adaptive deinterlacer which is cadence agnostic.

Does that mean the Oppo 983 will also output 10-bit 4:2:2 video over HDMI?

come on, 983!

Still too early westgate. That's the problem when someone "let's the cat out of the bag" too early. Everyone then thinks it'll be here next month, but that's not always the case. Even though I am NOT "the horses' mouth", it's pretty for sure that it won't be here till Christmas at the very earliest.:(

Still too early westgate. That's the problem when someone "let's the cat out of the bag" too early. Everyone then thinks it'll be here next month, but that's not always the case. Even though I am NOT "the horses' mouth", it's pretty for sure that it won't be here till Christmas at the very earliest.:(
i know, im just displaying my enthusiasm!

Yes.

Thank you
I have yet another question
As someone who's mainly buying High def. movies I'm thinking of buying my last true Universal DVD player because I still have lots of DVD in my collection which I watch.
However I want this last player to be of solid quality so it can last me a good amount of years. So far I have two options:
a)Wait for 983
or
b)Get a Denon DVD-2930

Do you 2930 can top 983 by a wide margin? Is the ATP solution as good as the Reon chip in 2930? and How is the audio quality of 983?

Neuromancer,

Is there a dedicated button for switching resolutions?

Like the DV-980H there is a dedicated button for changing the HDMI resolutions.

Sweet ... otherwise its a pain in the butt for SACD/DVD-A usage if you normally output 480i to a video processor for movies.

Thank you
I have yet another question
As someone who's mainly buying High def. movies I'm thinking of buying my last true Universal DVD player because I still have lots of DVD in my collection which I watch.
However I want this last player to be of solid quality so it can last me a good amount of years. So far I have two options:
a)Wait for 983
or
b)Get a Denon DVD-2930

Do you 2930 can top 983 by a wide margin? Is the ATP solution as good as the Reon chip in 2930? and How is the audio quality of 983?Based on the video components they should be comparable. Audio is too subjective. However, Oppo is light years ahead of Denon wrt customer support and bug fixing.

larry

Does anyone know if Oppo is up grading the HDMI 1.2a to HDMI 1.3 on this 983 player? Just curious.

There are only two situations really where the DV-983H will trump the DV-981HD. The first is no macroblock enhancement errors. The DV-983H will not macroblock enhance, so the overall picture should appear cleaner and sharper.

The second is if you are going to be watching television, video, heavily mixed media or animated contents. These contents usually throw off most video processors, including the Faroudja chipset. For me the DV-983H is the perfect player, as it handles animated contents nearly perfectly, while the DV-981HD would show interlacing and aliasing errors on the same contents.

Can this player be used as a stand-alone upconverter, what I mean is, can I just throw in SD input from cable/dish (can it even accept input) and use its chipset to de-interlace and upconvert and throw the output at the TV?

We haven't heard, but I would not expect them to. For one thing, it's being based on the 980H platform, which is v1.2. For another, the expense of changing to v1.3 wouldn't really provide any benefit. HDMI v1.3 would allow for support for TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams (which aren't available on DVD, thus not a factor here), deep color (also not available on DVD, thus not really useful), CEC (which is still an evolving standard riddled with proprietary manufacturer implementations and seems to create more problems than it solves in the instances when it does show up), and automatic lip sync adjustment (assuming that every other component in the signal path also supports it). In each case, the presence of an HDMI v1.3 transmitter chip alone doesn't create any of those features (assuming they are even possible in a DVD player), so you'd still have to include the relevent features once you had a v1.3 chip. If they were building the platform from scratch, I might see using a v1.3 chip if it happened to be convenient, but I wouldn't think it would make sense to change to one with a recently refined v1.2 platform as a basis for this product.

Can this player be used as a stand-alone upconverter, what I mean is, can I just throw in SD input from cable/dish (can it even accept input) and use its chipset to de-interlace and upconvert and throw the output at the TV?
i thought i saw that same question way earlier in this thread; i dont think the 983 will have inputs for external sources. cards maybe(?)

Does anyone know if Oppo is up grading the HDMI 1.2a to HDMI 1.3 on this 983 player? Just curious.

There would be no purpose to going with HDMI 1.3 other than to have a check mark that no one else has.

Can this player be used as a stand-alone upconverter, what I mean is, can I just throw in SD input from cable/dish (can it even accept input) and use its chipset to de-interlace and upconvert and throw the output at the TV?

i thought i saw that same question way earlier in this thread; i dont think the 983 will have inputs for external sources. cards maybe(?)

While this would definitely be cool, I suspect that DVDO would lobby heavily that OPPO not do this. It would effectively create a video processor akin to the VP20 or VP30 (albeit with less inputs) for 1/10th the price.

Choice: 970 or 980 going HDMI 480i into Marantz VP-15S1 using its Gennum processor OR 983 going HDMI 1080p into Marantz VP15S1 using 983's ABT ?

If you watch subtitled discs, 983. If not, either will work. Probably 983 slightly better still without subs though.

How will the ABT chips in the 983 compare to the XA2's reon chip ?

I own the Xa2 and love the upconversion - will the Oppo be better or equal ?

any opinions ?

About equal, I'd think