It was in 2006 that The Digital Bits reported that tests were being done to bring Star Trek The Original Series to HD as retelecine/remastered with new effects. Now In 2007 The Digital Bits mentions that tests have been done for The Next Generation.


"They further revealed that tests had been done for a possible future Star Trek: The Next Generation - Remastered effort."
-Bill Hunt of The Digital Bits gave us his two cents at
San Diego Comic Con,
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=7762


FYI:
Star Trek: The Next Generation
season 1

live action footage originally shot on 35mm film, telecined to standard definition video and edited from that (probably 1" analog originally then D2 or D1 tape).
and the final masters were on videotape - at 480i standard definition video.


My thoughts:
Since it was shot on film it is 'possible' to telecine the 35mm film to 1920x1080/24p and conform the show in this manner, with a 1.33:1 ratio as it was framed originally with black pillar bars.
the series cg special effects were created and output to standard definition video, which is the cause analog video artifacts from early seasons.
The visual effects 'could' be recreated and updated. This would be a considerable cost and many months of work and if Paramount does not see the return on investment by the public purchasing enough of the seasons in HD box sets then they will not do it.

the same goes for the other 2 ST series in the 1990s:
TNG was, and Deep Space Nine & Voyager are filmed in 35mm (primarily Kodak 7298, 500ASA) using Panavision cameras. The film is transferred to videotape, and post-production is done on video.


also see another thread on this from July over at hometheaterforum.com:
Star Trek TNG possible HD versions
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=259966

as well as my post on the Star Trek TOS going HD-DVD.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=902094&page=4


-kspaz

what they need to do most of all is to release the movies. Yes, launching TOS is HUGE but I feel a bigger impact would be made if they released the movies.

well my fav is deep space nine , but i would love tng on high def.

Sorry but the original series doesn't really do much to me , esp not at 130$ it would cost for just 1 season .

It sounds as though TNG, DS9, and Voyager would all need revamped effects since all post production was done on video. Here's for hoping, but that would be a costly endeavor for Paramount.

Get me Enterprise on HD DVD and I'll be very, very happy :)

what they need to do most of all is to release the movies. Yes, launching TOS is HUGE but I feel a bigger impact would be made if they released the movies.

KHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNN

Sorry, Star Trek thread regulations, it had to be done.

MEC2

I don't think the info on Voyager is entirely correct. I remember that at least the last season was aired in widescreen HD on UPN. Possibly the last 2 or 3 seasons. I also remember reading once that the series was one of the first recorded on digital media in HD. I could be wrong, but maybe someone else remembers as well?

(and I hate to say I told you so, but where are all those people who said they would NEVER try to release TNG, Bablyon 5, etc on HD because they were video based?) I realize it will take a lot of work...but cleaning up TOS didn't? It was a mutilyear effort I believe. So why would they not take the same care for the other series if the TOS sells well? The time will be spent on different things for the newer shows (less dirt to clean up, etc), but it is still possible and I would venture to say profitable in the end. They just know it will be a LONG TERM INVESTMENT.

Surely Paramount will release all the Star Trek feature films in a consumer high definition video format. The marketing people will want to time it with the cinema release of the newest feature film in the Star Trek franchise directed by J.J. Abrams "Star Trek XI" released on 25 December 2008.
And of course in 2009 they will use the buzz generated from the end of the year release to get a couple of the films out that year as well as that film itself on DVD by Memorial Day 2009...

Really I saw Star Trek: The Motion Picture The Director's Edition on DVD and it is really not a good movie IMO. Very slow, too many shots of the exterior of the Enterprise with big music... Sure some of the other films yes, but I'm in no rush to see that first one again...

TNG :) I really liked TNG. I'm not a Trekkie but TNG was very cool :)

Hopefully it doesn't cost $130/season :(

It sounds as though TNG, DS9, and Voyager would all need revamped effects since all post production was done on video. Here's for hoping, but that would be a costly endeavor for Paramount.

Get me Enterprise on HD DVD and I'll be very, very happy :)

Same here, Enterprise on HD DVD would be great and I would buy it as my local station here didn't broadcast it in HD. I'd especially like to have the 3rd and 4th seasons of ENT in HD.

Of course I'm down for anything Trek in HD. TNG will be great as that's the Trek I grew up with and I think some episodes from DS9 would greatly benefit (especially some of those huge battles they did on that show).

FWIW, my local big box electronic outlet has all of TOS and TNG being sold off at "bargain prices" in SD DVD editions. This is consistent with the imminent release of TOS, Season One in HD DVD. Could it be a prelude to TNG in a souped up release? I suppose the problem for me is that season one of TNG had rather too much of the paper mache rock backgrounds; it wasn't till season 2 or 3 that TNG really hit its stride. Those are worth buying in HD DVD.

FWIW, my local big box electronic outlet has all of TOS and TNG being sold off at "bargain prices" in SD DVD editions. This is consistent with the imminent release of TOS, Season One in HD DVD. Could it be a prelude to TNG in a souped up release? I suppose the problem for me is that season one of TNG had rather too much of the paper mache rock backgrounds; it wasn't till season 2 or 3 that TNG really hit its stride. Those are worth buying in HD DVD.
Actually, TOS and as PopcornReady mentioned in season 1 of TNG's cheap paper-maché sets.

That's part of the fun of seeing The Original Series from 1966-1969 in High Definition. While the show was produced on a budget using low-grade set construction/paint materials since it was shot on film and using the state-of-the-art for the late 1960s telecine's to color videotape the resolution was not great for the 480i NTSC system.
We get to see all of the resolution the film is offering and that includes seeing those sets.
The depth of field will limit it to some extent as to not distract too much from the foreground actors...

I would buy every season of TNG they create, it's my favorite show of all time..

Really I saw Star Trek: The Motion Picture The Director's Edition on DVD and it is really not a good movie IMO. Very slow, too many shots of the exterior of the Enterprise with big music... Sure some of the other films yes, but I'm in no rush to see that first one again...

Blashpemy! One of the best Star Trek films, visually. It would make a great HDM edition.

well my fav is deep space nine , but i would love tng on high def.

DS9 would be an auto-buy for me. That's my favorite series by far. TNG is a great show, but DS9 has to be one of the first sci-fi series with such a complicated multi-season story arc.

I already have the TNG DVDs... There would need to be a *lot* of improvement to justify the re-purchase. If the effects looked like the Enterprise finale (the exterior "D" shots looked stunning) then I'd gladly plunk down the coin. The widescreen effect was just as impressive as the digital SFX. I distinctly remember looking at the grain on the conference table and getting ticked-off that my entire TNG collection is 480i and 4:3.

IMHO the remastered TOS shots don't look much better than the standard TNG-era ones, so I don't know how much effort they would make a second time around. Maybe they didn't want to get too aggressive since everything still needed to look like a period piece (or they were just cheap).

Blashpemy! One of the best Star Trek films, visually. It would make a great HDM edition.

I agree. It's also one of the best Trek films period. I think it is probably the only one that would meet the definition of classic sci-fi. It was a bit "out there" and had the biggest built-in sense of awe. Unfortunately modern ship movies are little more than, "How many ways can we show ship-to-ship combat?" TMP was also the only movie besides 4 that didn't involve a combat showdown. (Technically 5 didn't have the Enterprise firing... However, if anyone ever invents time-travel, the first order of business is that someone needs to go back and prevent that film from being made.)

(and I hate to say I told you so, but where are all those people who said they would NEVER try to release TNG, Bablyon 5, etc on HD because they were video based?)For precisely the same reasons I and others cited in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10323781#post10323781), Babylon 5 is extremely unlkely to be retrofitted into high-definition in our lifetimes. TNG is a far different beast that has been a huge cash cow for Paramount and certainly a much more lucrative proposition. In terms of B5, your "I told you so" is highly premature (not to mention juvenile).

Only difference now is that there's virtually nil chance of ever seeing a BlueRay version.

A DS9 HD DVD remaster effort would also be a blind buy for me.I'm not sure about Next Gen though(the movies definiely)because of the fact that I doubt the series would hold up well if remastered in Hidef.DS9,Voyager and easily Enterprise would make for very nice HiDef remasters with the biggest expenses likely being redoing the effects as all three series were far more effects laden than Next Gen.You would figure that Paramount/CBS would definitely have Enterprise lined up for a HiDef conversion as that would be simple considering it was shot in widescreen with even a season shot in native HiDef and also having little to no need to redo any effects.

TOS is remastered from the 35mm negatives so if they're available for B5, TNG DS9, they should be forthcoming.

So nobody else remembers the last season(s) of voyager being in HD?


dub237...you're calling me juvenile? Have you seen 95% of the posts on AVS? And to be specific, I didn't say "I told you so"... I just think its funny when people just say things aren't possible for a variety of reasons and then they are almost always eventually proven wrong (how many people thought a I-AA school would ever beat a #5 ranked M*ch*g*n). Anything is possible when there are motivated people. Likewise anyhing can happen when there is money to be made. I remember reading somewhere that our technology doubles every 10 years...that's pretty amazing and opens up the door for a lot of opportunites, don't you think?

Anyway, saying "Never in our lifetime" is rather bold. Maybe sit back and think about the standard persons lifetime and what can happen. I'm not much of a history buff...but aren't there still a handful of people around that lived through WWI? I'd venture to say A LOT has happend between 1918 and today. Granted not everyone lives that long, but according to you, we will NEVER see TNG and Babylon 5 released again...ever. So better buy up those SD DVDs, its the last, best hope to ever see Babylon 5. Its also the best it will ever look. I'm just not buying it, sorry. I'm 30, and I believe these series will eventually be released in hi-definition (or something even higher) in my lifetime.

Granted I've read the the thread you've linked and don't understand the real nuts and bolts of it. I'm in the medical field, not the movie biz. I do get the jist that it will be time-consuming, dificult, and expensive. But all the studio has to project is making $1 more than they would spend on the entire project and it becomes worth it. I know that sounds ridiculous, but its a profit. And I'm willing to bet anything that they would make a heck of a lot more than that. Not to mention, are the next gen home video fromats from now on just going to ignore huge spans of TV shows, movies, etc. throughout history that weren't shot on "ideal" media? That just sort of sounds like a mistake to me.

I'm not picking a fight at all, I'm just listing my reasoning. We can agree to disagree.

dub237...you're calling me juvenile?No, I'm calling that one comment juvenile.

Have you seen 95% of the posts on AVS?I hope I haven't, else I'm in the only two or three areas of AVS that get any traffic, and I'm sure the rest of the site isn't just wasted bits and bytes.

And to be specific, I didn't say "I told you so"...Yes, actually, you did. I even quoted the part where those words appeared.

Anyway, saying "Never in our lifetime" is rather bold.It's not bold, it's just a matter of knowing how much time and money goes into the TV production, post-processing, and special effects, really. Plus the loss of all of Foundation's assets, which I hadn't known about before but which makes me 100% certain that an HD revival is out of the question. If it happens within our lifetime, then you are perfectly justified in saying "I told you so".

Granted not everyone lives that long, but according to you, we will NEVER see TNG and Babylon 5 released again...ever.No. According to me, we will never see the original Babylon 5 episodes redone in high-def. I don't know why you believe I'm insisting TNG won't be remastered. I've never said any such thing and in fact I think it's a reasonable prospect, given Trek's following and Paramount's resources.

So better buy up those SD DVDs, its the last, best hope to ever see Babylon 5. Its also the best it will ever look. I'm just not buying it, sorry. It's not a matter of what you buy or don't buy, it's a simple fact of economics. I won't stop you from holding out against hope, but others who read this thread should at least understand why it's such a long shot.

I don't think the info on Voyager is entirely correct. I remember that at least the last season was aired in widescreen HD on UPN. Possibly the last 2 or 3 seasons. I also remember reading once that the series was one of the first recorded on digital media in HD. I could be wrong, but maybe someone else remembers as well?

I think you might be thinking of ENTERPRISE. VOYAGER was shot on film in 1.33:1. I heard that there was talk of shooting the last few seasons in 1.78:1, but that was ultimately abandoned. I don't think UPN was broadcasting in HD until Season 2 or 3 of ENTERPRISE.

The first few episodes of ENTERPRISE were shot in 1.33:1, but it was decided before it premiered that 1.78:1 was the way to go in preparation for the inevitable HD broadcasts. Those initial episodes were "tilted-and-scanned" (or whatever), and aired in 1.78:1. Season 4 was shot digitally.

As for DS9 being the best television series of all-time, that entirely accurate. I'm only down with HD revisions to that series if executive producer Ira Steven Behr is.

I don't think the info on Voyager is entirely correct. I remember that at least the last season was aired in widescreen HD on UPN. Possibly the last 2 or 3 seasons. I also remember reading once that the series was one of the first recorded on digital media in HD. I could be wrong, but maybe someone else remembers as well?

(and I hate to say I told you so, but where are all those people who said they would NEVER try to release TNG, Bablyon 5, etc on HD because they were video based?) I realize it will take a lot of work...but cleaning up TOS didn't? It was a mutilyear effort I believe. So why would they not take the same care for the other series if the TOS sells well? The time will be spent on different things for the newer shows (less dirt to clean up, etc), but it is still possible and I would venture to say profitable in the end. They just know it will be a LONG TERM INVESTMENT.
True. Star Trek is the crown jewel in Paramount's television catalog. It's an evergreen - there's always an audience for it. If TOS bodes well in sales, we can expect to see the same treatment on the remaining versions of the franchise.

I'm not a huge Trek Fan but I really LOVED TNG, it was a GREAT series with impeccable writing for a TV show. The TV show had much better writing than any of the movies.

I would probably shell out a lot of money for a Proper HD version of TNG. Something tells me though unless they go back to the Original film elements for every episode we are not getting an HD version of TNG. I think the work involved to re do every episode and every special effect would cost way to much money for the amount of episodes that need to be done.

The Original series had a much shorter run on TV than TNG. I would like it but I think the costs involved would not validate releasing it in HD for Paramount.

I don't know if I can handle all the ST in high-def. The DVD box sets for ST TNG set me back ~$700 being that all of them came out ~$99/season. I've maybe watched 10 episodes total out of all those discs. It pissed me off to no end when they dropped the price of later seasons couple years ago, right after I finished buying the entire set.

Is it just me, or did anyone else notice Bill's slight bashing of HD DVD in the article? I find it amusing everytime he puts effort in there to do that, then goes overboard with something like "Inevitably, someone in the audience finally asked them directly about Blu-ray Disc during the Q&A session that followed (and, interestingly, there was a smattering of cheers and applause from the audience when the question was raised).". You know, as if the HD DVD version of ANYTHING just gets boos and whatnot, and the BR version ALWAYS gets the applause. He's a very funny, little man.

So nobody else remembers the last season(s) of voyager being in HD?Voyager was always SD and 4:3, through the last season that ended in 2001.

The next show, Enterprise, was HD, but it wasn't even until the middle of the third season, in 2003, that UPN started broadcasting it in HD. The HDNet reruns are all HD, however.

The visual effects 'could' be recreated and updated.This is what bugs me, the "revising" of the shows. Why can't they just do a remaster of the film, and recreate the same effects at HD resolution, so we can watch the show as we remember it?

I mean, we're probably talking about a $1,000 HD set, and it would be nice to at least be able to sell the $650 SD set to finance it.

Sorry but the original series doesn't really do much to me , esp not at 130$ it would cost for just 1 season .I'm the opposite. TOS rocks! The show was fun and had that naive optimistic 60s outlook.

TNG was drab in comparison. Too much of another day at the office vibe filled with TrekBabble whenever they got into a tight spot.

I can live without TNG in HD, the show looks like it was shot in someone's garage, and mom helped make the set. Seeing this in HD can only make it worse.

First Contact in 1080p would be epic though.

I couldn't remember for sure, so I just looked it up. Season 3 was on film.

Yah, I deleted my post at the same time you responded, I looked it up as well: http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/news/article/6165.html

I really hope to own Enterprise on HD DVD someday soon, the show has looked great on HDNet.

I really hope to own Enterprise on HD DVD someday soon, the show has looked great on HDNet.
Same here- I'd love to get it on HD-DVD.
Enterprise would be by far the easiest and least expensive Trek to issue on HD-DVD as no remastering of SFX would be needed and the AR was 16:9 from the getgo so no cropped heads either.

Since OAR is being respected with TOS Season HD DVD release cropped heads will not be an issue either.

B5 in HD is certainly possible and hopefully it will be a reality at some point. The DVD sets were created by scanning the original camera negatives (the show was shot with a future widescreen release in mind) and then dropping in the cropped CGI shots (to give the illusion of widescreen CGI) from the original video masters. Assuming someone laid out the budget properly and WB saw there was sufficient demand for it, it could certainly be done since new B5 CGI assets were made for The Lost Tales. If they still have the negatives from the composite shots then every single episode could be fully redone like Trek.

Since OAR is being respected with TOS Season HD DVD release cropped heads will not be an issue either.
Funny you mention it...
My cable provider just added the VOOM HD package- and one of the channels is called "Family HD" I believe.
Since it's a 16:9 AR HD presentation, all the old shows have been rescanned and framed to 16:9 AR and I haven't noticed any issues with cropping. I've enjoyed "Flipper", "Thunderbirds", "UFO" and other 1960's & 1970's era 4:3 AR shows in 16:9 AR HD. I'd bet a good 16:9 conversion job could be done with the 4:3 Trek shows if enough care was taken and each scene change was carefully reframed. "Flipper" and "UFO" look amazing in 16:9 HD...

Sadly reframing of 4:3 shows to fit 16:9 displays is going to be a common occurrence going forward. Its inevitable to satisfy mass market demands but I prefer the OAR to be preserved.

I would most certainly double dip for TNG.

Most of the special effects work used in later TNG seasons and DS9 and Voyager were all CGI, correct? Isn't it possible that the CGI models and sequences have been preserved on a server or backup somewhere and could be re-run at higher resolution on new hardware? After which point they would be merged with the new 1080p transfers of the 35mm films. For some reason, I wouldn't expect all-new effects to be necessary.

Funny you mention it...
My cable provider just added the VOOM HD package- and one of the channels is called "Family HD" I believe.
Since it's a 16:9 AR HD presentation, all the old shows have been rescanned and framed to 16:9 AR and I haven't noticed any issues with cropping. I've enjoyed "Flipper", "Thunderbirds", "UFO" and other 1960's & 1970's era 4:3 AR shows in 16:9 AR HD. I'd bet a good 16:9 conversion job could be done with the 4:3 Trek shows if enough care was taken and each scene change was carefully reframed. "Flipper" and "UFO" look amazing in 16:9 HD...





http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4449/kirkis3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


original


http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/4656/kirk2sh4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


what a cropped to 16x9 version would look like. A bit cramped, yes...?

To me, it's not even that it's cramped, it's that you lose the artistry of the shot. In the 4:3, you see the strip of light over the eyes - a common dramatic effect of the time. In the 16:9, you lose that effect, it just looks like bad lighting.

yep, that too.

Don't forget the Pirates of the Caribbean Blu-Ray version. :D

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1520/kirkispwq6.jpg

It'd be nice if it was, at least, one of the options(using 16X9 cropped).

then hit the f*cking zoom button! ;)

the set's already a damned combo and lists for $200. To have ANOTHER version, the set would be like 15 discs and cost at least $300!

Don't forget the Pirates of the Caribbean Blu-Ray version. :D

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1520/kirkispwq6.jpg

awesome

then hit the f*cking zoom button! ;)

the set's already a damned combo and lists for $200. To have ANOTHER version, the set would be like 15 discs and cost at least $300!

Well, we all know how the quality is with the "Zoom" button, don't we? ;) Thing is, I'm not asking for yet another boxed set, but rather adding it on to the existing discs. Granted, for Season 1 it would be impossible, but with the 51 giggers hitting soon, Season 2 could possible do this *and* have the original 4:3 versions on the same disc.

and there would still be like 15 discs as there would have to be another transfer of each episode. Would cost like $300.

29 epsiodes x50 minutes now in HD. To have 2 transfers, WS and 4x3, that's 58 x50 minutes. Even with TL 51 discs...

I still have a couple of Enterprise season 4 eps on DVHS and use part 1 of In A Mirror Darkly (the Mirror Mirror prequel) as one of my reference videos. You want blacks, it delivers. The neat part about that season is the special effects guys were getting really comfy with HD and so you'll find a lot of easter eggs - my favorite is a terminal screen displays in small but readable text Jonathan Archer's full biography that explains what happens to him after the show ends.

TNG will be a nice addition, although I suspect the cleanup work on the closeup shots will be tough.

my favorite is a terminal screen displays in small but readable text Jonathan Archer's full biography that explains what happens to him after the show ends.

Hmmmm, is this info listed elsewhere, or would you mind divulging its contents here? I'm really interested to hear it!!! :)

http://trekmovie.com/2007/09/06/buy-tos-r-season-1-toshiba-hd-player-get-a-free-phaser-remote/

new phasor shots and promotion details

I am confused by this release next week.
In less than 2 months we have a HDDVD of TOS being released...

In 2004 a TNG box set of 7 seasons was already released. This was only 3 years ago. Paramount has some nerve.

20th Aniv. TNG Box Set Details + Special Features
http://trekmovie.com/2007/09/18/new-tng-box-set-special-features-preview/
Embarking on DVD October 2, 2007, 49-Disc Collector’s Box Set Includes All 176 Episodes, All-New Special Features,
STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION Complete Series will be available for the suggested retail price of $440.00 [$304 on Amazon].

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000RZIGVS******ord_cart_shr/002-2534122-1385603?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

Is this TNG box set supposed to be a reason for Holiday 2007 shoppers to buy?
It is the same cost as the 7 season TNG collection from 2004.
And if you just bought the seasons separately it would cost about $50. more not including shipping.
Star Trek The Next Generation - The Complete First Season
Buy new: $69.98 list $50.49 Amazon.com


December 2008 is when the next feature film of the Star Trek franchise will be released.
Well in Summer 2008 possibly they will make an announcement for TNG remastered for HDDVD for a Q2 or Q3 2009 release? (using the feature film as buzz for months as a the film would be released in December 2008 and a DVD & HDDVD of the film released probably by May 2009)

-kspaz

While I'd love an HDDVD version of TNG.
I'd much prefer B5 in HDDVD.

ST:TNG doesn't get good until season 3 at least imo.
B5 is good from the get go and ends fantastically.

For The Next Generation....I'd spend whatever it takes.

While I'd love an HDDVD version of TNG.
I'd much prefer B5 in HDDVD.

ST:TNG doesn't get good until season 3 at least imo.
B5 is good from the get go and ends fantastically.

B5 would never make it to HD. The sets and effects would collapse under their own cheap and cheesy weight. Besides, this thread is about Star Trek, which doesn't have even a remote relationship to B5... so why even bring it up?

Look forward to it. B5 in HD.

I don't think the info on Voyager is entirely correct. I remember that at least the last season was aired in widescreen HD on UPN. Possibly the last 2 or 3 seasons. I also remember reading once that the series was one of the first recorded on digital media in HD. I could be wrong, but maybe someone else remembers as well?

(and I hate to say I told you so, but where are all those people who said they would NEVER try to release TNG, Bablyon 5, etc on HD because they were video based?) I realize it will take a lot of work...but cleaning up TOS didn't? It was a mutilyear effort I believe. So why would they not take the same care for the other series if the TOS sells well? The time will be spent on different things for the newer shows (less dirt to clean up, etc), but it is still possible and I would venture to say profitable in the end. They just know it will be a LONG TERM INVESTMENT.

I also read Voyager was filmed differently and was in a better position to be made into high def.

Anyone know a reliable link with the info?

One thing that I have wanted to mention from the beginning of this TOS versus TNG/DS9/Voyager conversion to HD is that TOS was shot on a shoestring budget and on a very tight timetable. Anyone who has ever read "The Making of Star Trek" will tell you that in TOS no effort was spared in avoiding the use of special effects whenever possible. Not only were they expensive- but they all had to be done out of studio (by Anderson IIRC) which just killed production momentum. It was frequently mentioned that things like "dub in the phaser sound- but keep the camera in tight on Kirk's face then pan to the guy who was shot lying on the ground after the fact" were used to save both time and money on SFX shots.
Keeping this in mind- TOS was shot with a minimum of SFX as a rule- and it took "multi-years" to remaster TOS to HD.
TNG/DS9/Voyager extensively relied on and were much more SFX laden than TOS. It would require much more effort to remaster due to all the SFX having to be redone, not to mention the fact that the original film (not video) elements have to be secured for the HD scan process, where in TOS the film elements were available.
It's almost counter intuitive when you see old 1960's shows like "Flipper" in beautiful HD on Voom, but no HD versions of the later Trek shows from the 1990's (excepting Enterprise).

I can live without TNG in HD, the show looks like it was shot in someone's garage, and mom helped make the set. Seeing this in HD can only make it worse.

First Contact in 1080p would be epic though.
+1

If they released TNG in HD and there was a significant difference in PQ and AQ from the DVD, I would be willing to shell out $200 a set. However, the effort has to be made in making the HD version significantly better than the DVD.

To Paramount: the movies...the movies....focus on the movies, not the series'.

An Ultimate Collection of movies was promised, I believe, at the onset of HD-DVD/BD.

I'd much rather have ALL the movies in HD than ANY of the series. The movies have better special effects, overall better acting, overall tighter, more original story lines, have greater replay value since many rerun cycles of all the series are still shown on cable TV, and would be far more consumer friendly to collect. Spreading out the HD release of 3 series, 7 seasons each, over multiple years is not something I would look forward to as a collector of Star Trek. Frankly, I can live without TNG/DS9/Voyager in HD. The movies are nice little nuggets of the Star Trek universe & are far more deserving of HD remastering.

But that is just my opinion. Once a boxed set of movies are done, then go back and do TNG/DS9.

I'd pay anything they threw at me to get TNG on HD DVD.

"THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!!" in True HD would be sweet.

^^
Paramount will like you more than me at cash register time. ;) :D

I'd be very excited about TNG IF they release it in a boxed set of all seasons, IF it's not outrageously priced and IF the movies are also on the horizon for release. I will not start the cycle of buying each season one at a time, paying $100-200 per season and waiting 2-5 yrs to collect them all. That's an insane amount of money, IMHO. I have every movie on laserdisc and the latest ones on DVD and still very much want the movies in HD. :)

For me, SF TV shows like Babylon 5 and the current BSG have greater replay value since they have an original story for each episode that contributed to the overall story ark, with writing that did not run out of fresh ideas, did not resort to re-hashing or re-vamping old plot devices, including those from TOS. Since I'm an original, old fart Trekkie from the 60's, maybe I've had too much exposure. Fight the Klingons, peace with the Klingons, fight the Cardasians, go in league with them to fight the Dominion, then go back to fighting the Klingons. The shows just ran out of steam.

But I agree that if Paramount were only selecting 1 ST series for HD, TNG would be my choice, too. And I still want the movies! :)

But I agree that if Paramount were only selecting 1 ST series for HD, TNG would be my choice, too. And I still want the movies! :)

If it was only one, then DS-9 would be my choice. However, I'm sure we eventually will see ALL of ST on HD. Of course, as someone else pointed out earlier, half of us could be dead by that time.;)

To Paramount: the movies...the movies....focus on the movies, not the series'.

An Ultimate Collection of movies was promised, I believe, at the onset of HD-DVD/BD.

I'd much rather have ALL the movies in HD than ANY of the series. The movies have better special effects, overall better acting, overall tighter, more original story lines, have greater replay value since many rerun cycles of all the series are still shown on cable TV, and would be far more consumer friendly to collect. Spreading out the HD release of 3 series, 7 seasons each, over multiple years is not something I would look forward to as a collector of Star Trek. Frankly, I can live without TNG/DS9/Voyager in HD. The movies are nice little nuggets of the Star Trek universe & are far more deserving of HD remastering.

But that is just my opinion. Once a boxed set of movies are done, then go back and do TNG/DS9.

Here here, I couldn't agree more. Paramount, time to get off the can and just so you don't forget, use uncompressed to make up for the fact all of the SD releases always had a mediocre DD sound until DTS in a, of course, special edition, came out. Don't miss the boat this time. Remember HD means sound and picuture.;)

[QUOTE=jayray;11715689] use uncompressed to make up for the fact all of the SD releases always had a mediocre DD sound QUOTE]

I assume you are speaking of the feature films even though it is not directly written and off topic of this thread.

The TV series were mixed for television and the dynamic range even through some of Voyager weren't exactly dynamic mixes and Dolby Surround was how it was offered to viewers originally. Yes the DVD sets have remixed everything into DD 5.1 . Television dynamic range is still not going to be mixed like a feature film [with the exception of something like HBO's 'Band of Brothers'] and therefore Uncompressed PCM audio is going to be not very much different. Although the music and sound effects would benefit somewhat for frequency range.

I doubt we would see any sound work done to TNG when the 35mm film is being retelecined to HD and conformed and new CGI special effects created. They would just use the work done in the early 2000s when remixing to 5.1 .

-kspaz

TNG/DS9/Voyager extensively relied on and were much more SFX laden than TOS. It would require much more effort to remaster due to all the SFX having to be redone, not to mention the fact that the original film (not video) elements have to be secured for the HD scan process, where in TOS the film elements were available.(.

I understand what you are saying as Star Trek TOS had the original camera negative edited together with the SFX original 35mm composite internegatives. While the decision to use new CGI SFX shots was made by the producers the camera negative was available already edited.

To reconform an original camera negative from a project that was edited on video from videotapes of the 35mm film scene-by-scene color corrected telecine may be huge if there were no keykode from the film edge recorded and the records kept. This keykode identifies what frame on the film is on the screen for a negative cutter to cut the negative and conform a camera negative for a feature film these days or for all tv shows up through the 1980s and some into the 1990s such as "NYPD" Blue and "ER"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keykode
see the info and a photo at the link.
And now I just learned that since Keycode was introduced in 1990 that at least the first 3 seasons of TNG only had Edge numbers on the film [not machine readable KeyKode] and unless those first 3 seasons' were done traditionally with a negative cut then I don't know how they would reconform.
Since TNG was a 4:3 full frame show I highly doubt there were videotapes with keycode burned in. Typically a feature film is framed for 1.85:1 or 2.35:1 so there is space in the black letterboxed area for 3 timecodes and Keycode. So yes this would be a considerable amount of time if this conform were done from editors/script supervisor notes from episodes as to which takes were selected takes and then each edit would have to be eye matched (an extremely painstakingly slow process) and compared with the original 1" Analog master from the late 1980s (or D1/D2 videotape starting in season 3) for accuracy.
Since these were framed for 4:3 full frame and it would negate the extra 25% of the 16x9 framing that is another reason why it would be a risk for Paramount to undertake this huge endeavor hoping future consumers would buy the boxed sets in HD.
Of course it all depends upon how the TOS sets sell.
For comparison on the "ER" DVD seasons they were protected for 16x9 or at least widescreen and that's why they got a widescreen transfer even though the show all the way back to 1994. Although 16x9 was spoken of in the mid 1980s as being the future format ratio for television by the engineers of SMPTE's WG-HDEP.

But The article from The Digital Bits from July said that Paramount did a test for remastering TNG for HDDVD. An upconvert from 480i would not sell once consumers can see what TOS retelecined to 1080p can do...
Paramount will have to either go all the way or do nothing and not plan any HD media release (doubtful since they make so much money from the ST franchise, as evident with TOS DVDs since 1998).. So start that letter writing campaign after you see TOS on November 20 in HDDVD...

-kspaz

^^
Or just ask them to release the movies, already in widescreen aspect ratio :)

Much easier for them and much easier for fans to buy without any controversial decisions whatsoever..;)

Believe me, I'm speaking as a ST fan. The movies would be an immediate hit with booku sales rather than some fans waffling over spending the money and waiting the time for re-worked TOS and planned 7 years of TNG episodes. The movies will be far less risky for them and for us customers. Look at how Twin Peaks was handled, with season 1 (only 7 episodes) released without the pilot film and fans waiting 5 yrs for the rest. What good is one season without the ending where all the mysteries are answered?

Next look at how Babylon 5 on DVD was handled. Warner started out tepidly releasing s.1 and selected episodes from s.2, 3, 4 and 5 on VHS and laserdisc, then abruptly stopped releases on both formats with no announced intention of finishing the series. They didn' even bother to release the episodes in chronological order. Columbia House eventually picked up the rights and released more episodes, also in no particular order on VHS before once again stopping without finishing the series. It took a multi-year internet petition drive, and a timid test of the sales waters with the pilot ep. on DVD for WB to be convinced to release the series again. Even then WB released only 1 season at a time, evaluating sales and waiting 4-6 months between releases. At any time, they could have pulled the plug and orphaned the buying customers. Without all 5 seasons, buying B5 would have been pointless. And that was with a scifi show that had a loyal, hardcore following and only 5 seasons.

Granted the fan base for ST TOS/TNG will be greater than B5, but it should be clear that fans buying a series with distinct beginnings and endings are taking a big chance that the studio will not leave them in the lurch if profits are not what they expected. They will cancel out in a heartbeat if the money is not there to support them completing a multi-year project like TNG.

A boxed set & individual titles of ST movies are a much safer bet guaranteed to please the fan base. I, for one, am quite surprised Paramount started with TOS, over 40 yrs old, rather than the movies. Despite our love of the show, let's be honest, do we think TOS win over any new fans (and sales) by being in HD than it already has? Especially at close to $400 street price for all 3 seasons?

What if the sales do not warrant S.2 and S.3? Does that mean they shelve the rest, and delay any more ST releases? It's a risky move. Many posters in previous threads are not buying the TOS release, including me. The same will be true for TNG when it is announced. For the same $130-140, I can buy 4 to 6 very hi-quality and hi-profile scifi and action movies being released this quarter, a better value for a hard core fan like me.

ss9001

^^
What if the sales do not warrant S.2 and S.3? Does that mean they shelve the rest, and delay any more ST releases? It's a risky move.

ss9001

Not so risky. I would be willing to bet the studio has already broken even on the remastered 1st season from just the TV revenue. So anything the HD-DVD's generate are most likely pure profit. Add that they are going to charge far more than most season box sets of other TV shows (which are obviously profitable as well, or they wouldn't be produced), that I think they will more than come out ahead. Plus, don't underestimate the 'Trekkies'. Many are middle aged with an above average income. And will buy these sets up pronto!

^^Despite our love of the show, let's be honest, do we think TOS win over any new fans (and sales) by being in HD than it already has? Especially at close to $400 street price for all 3 seasons?

What if the sales do not warrant S.2 and S.3? Does that mean they shelve the rest, and delay any more ST releases? It's a risky move.

ss9001

written well.
Sure the feature films started being released as special collector's editions in 2001 and up to 2005. Paramount has to milk this before releasing them in HD. . . I'm sure they still are selling especially since some are only $12. and can be had less on sale. If they wait until the HD penetration of HD-capable media players in consumers homes hits 20 or 30% then they know they will have an audience that will not settle for standard definition DVD. And there will be a demand for a HD version of their ST film.

TOS 3 seasons will all come out on HD media. Whether TNG will be telecined from the original camera negative is another story entirely. That's why I started this thread: to see what kind of feedback and demand there is for ST:TNG in HD consumer media (HDDVD/Bluray).
Voyager does not have nearly the following of baby boomers and original viewers of 70's and 80's reruns fans of TOS that led into those same people being fans of ST:TNG.

Hey Oops! What am I thinking Sydicated HD reruns of TNG! That's a huge revenue stream. HD Sci Fi channel anyone? No where is more money? other HD channels with bigger audience and ratings. That is the other reason for making TNG as HD...

I highly doubt Voyager will get an HD release. But there might be enough consumer fan buzz through the next 3 years to push TNG to HD. At the next Star Trek convention November 9 there should be people asking about this and making it aware in the Trekkie fanworld.

-kspaz

They've already done work in all three seasons, they're airing them in a fan favorite order. http://trekmovie.com/tos-in-hd/hdtv-star-trek-tos-episode-order/