A kind mod suggested a new thread, far more specific. So I am starting TWO new threads.

One for people who DO have a sound problem and one for people who do NOT.

This thread is ONLY for people who have experienced the sound lag problem on THE MATRIX HD-DVD

If you have not experienced the problem, then please post in the other thread. Any and all flame baiters or thread crappers will be reported. I have been assured that no thread farting will be allowed.

In order to solve this problem and to appease those of you will not believe that their could be a mastering problem, I am asking that you post the following information...

HD-DVD player, model and firmware.

Audio equipment, make and model.

How your equipment is connected.

What soundtrack you have listened to.

Remember, this thread is ONLY for those of you who have experienced problems with THE MATRIX. If you have NOT experienced a problem, please go to the other thread and report there.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=905900

I can appreciate you being upset, but as I remember it, it's only an issue for those of us not using Dolby TrueHD. I have the whole "DD+ downscaled to DTS+" thing going on as I use the digital coaxial output, and I notice the issue but to it's not THAT bad. I just can't see Warner doing a recall anymore than Disney cleaning up the framing issues on PotC. Too many copies have been sold..

I've got an HD-A1, running firmware 2.3. Can't recall the receiver's model number, but it's the newest, cheapest Sony model out there, STRDG10 maybe?

do we need another thread on this?

Oh, so I see it is not just me.

Watched THE MATRIX over the weekend, tried a few things but never got the lag to go away. Don't think I had lag on the second and third installments, which I watched first of course, some weeks ago.

At length I decided to rewatch the original movie too, as long as that was included in the set. It was then I caught the issue.

HD-DVD player, model and firmware: Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on (firmware 2.0.4636.0) AND Toshiba HD-A1 (firmware 2.3)

Audio equipment, make and model: Receiver: Yamaha RXV359 with Yamaha NSP110 speakers

How your equipment is connected: HDMI for display, Optical for audio (lag also apparent when using TV's standard stereo speakers)

What soundtrack you have listened to: English Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1 and Dolby TrueHD 5.1, French Dolby Digital-Plus 5.1, Spanish Dolby Digital-Plus 2.0, ALL AFFECTED

Toshiba HD-A1 firmware 2.0 at the time, currently 2.3

Pioneer Elite VSX 47TX

HDMI for Display, Optical for audio

Dolby Digital Plus 5.1

Stace

Obviously some people want to deliberately post here to cause trouble, despite the very clear intent of this thread and the warnings in post #1. Unreal. Do people have nothing better to do?

The problem surfaces not only with DD5.1, but with TrueHD downconverted to DD+.

Toshiba HD-A1

Pioneer VSX-D811S
Denon 3806 and 3806

Every method but HDMI has been tested.

STAY ON TOPIC! If you have no reason to post, then please do not. So far we have Sony, Denon, Pioneer and Yamaha receivers listed.

Good. its not just me who's noticed this on this disc....

Toshiba A-2 firmware 2.2

Onkyo 604 reciever

HDMI going into reciever

TrueHD track

Toshiba A2 firmware 2.2
Toshiba A20 firmware 2.2
Onkyo HT-SR600
Optical into receiver
DD+

I have 2 sets of the Ultimate Collection in my possession because I contacted Amazon for an exchange due to Reloaded being defective. It turns out my replacement is defective too. Both Matrix discs have audio sync issues. I contacted Warner on Friday and was told my issue would be forwarded to a supervisor who would get back to me by phone or snail mail. I didn't mention the audio problems with The Matrix because I was caught up with the problems with Reloaded. If they ever actually do call me back I will definitely bring it up though.

Perhaps you can post a specific scene to watch for - like "when Morpheus says blah blah, watch and see, it's so obvious". I'll be happy to check mine, I am usually very sensitive to audio sync issues...

I think one of the times I really noticed it is when Neo's boss is reprimanding him.

I think one of the times I really noticed it is when Neo's boss is reprimanding him.

Thats the same scene I first noticed it in also.

Here's the phone number to contact Warner:

866-488-4640

I got the feeling that this is just a 3rd party company that Warner hired for CS, but the lady picked up right away when I called, listened to everything I said, and claimed she'd forward it on to the proper people who would get back to me. It can't hurt to call and inform them of your issues, as the more complaints they get, the more likely they are to act.

MEC2, I am super sensitive, so I notice it constantly. However, my wife is not. She noticed it when the agents first arrive and talk to the street cop. Their lips are rubbery.

She noticed during the fight scene with Neo and Morphius that the blows and the sound fx did not match.

At the top of the roof (finale) when Neo does that awesome double back and forth kick between the two army guy's heads, she noticed it.

Many other places, really.

Thanks for posting the number, kevxross. It's not the one I had, but that one just got me to the same people. Warner seems to have farmed all their CS needs out, as you say.

While far more seem to not have an issue, there are too many of us with too many types of equipment for this to be our imagination.

We ALL need to call Warner and demand they replace these discs. Otherwise nothing gets done. Also, please email thedigitalbits.com and dvdfile.com.

Also, please email thedigitalbits.com and dvdfile.com.

Oh Christ, are you KIDDING me!? You *really* want to alert Bill Hunt, the most anti-HD DVD guy this side of Beatboy, and alert him to this? I can see it now:

"My Two Cents:

Well, today some poor HD DVD owner alerted me to the fact that when you're watching The Matrix on HD DVD and choose anything other than Dolby TrueHD, that the audio is 0.9094582340958124-089125043087653-960845-9028 seconds off. You see, on Blu-Ray, this stuff doesn't happen because Sony BR players all have specs that don't allow for stuff like that. Yes, normally the HD DVD fanboys act like having finalized specs is such a big deal, but let me tell you, here at The Digital Bits we're Blu, and being Blu means quality, it means 50 gig BR discs that are only used to around 25 gigs, it means we get to pound our chests and declare victory every time any announcement is made. It also means that one we get The Matrix this won't happen. It may have some framing issues like PotC, but honestly I think that add MORE to the movie because I don't want some generic, director-driven camera angles that allow me to see the actor's face in every shot. Blu-Ray: The choice of Digital Bits, is there any other way to go!?"

Thank you for blatantly violating the rules of this thread, which are clearly listed in Post #1.

Bill Hunt was made aware of tyhis long ago. But he himself had no problem and for some reason has chosen to to write about it. If he were so anti HD-DVD I think he would have done a cover story long ago.

So stop thread crapping. If you have nothing productive to say then create your own thread.

BACK ON TOPIC, please add the Pionner VSX-809S to the list of receivers that have the sound lag when connected to an HD-A1.

Thank you for blatantly violating the rules of this thread, which are clearly listed in Post #1.

Bill Hunt was made aware of tyhis long ago. But he himself had no problem and for some reason has chosen to to write about it. If he were so anti HD-DVD I think he would have done a cover story long ago.

So stop thread crapping. If you have nothing productive to say then create your own thread.

<yawn>

I take it my input of the issue and what equipment I was using simply wasn't good enough? BTW, "thread crapping" is the phrase of the day, you're so hip!!!!1111!!!!11!!

LOL, would this then be the first time in history an AVS mod actually suggested a NEW thread on an already-covered topic? ;)

Seriously though, the other thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852298) had lots of good info (apart from the baiting and flaming over video lag), including equipment and audio track info, as well as where to look in the movie, aren't we just going to cover the same stuff here? There's even a good hypothetical post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=10755188&postcount=104) about how video lag could theoretically mask an audio sync problem with the Matrix and still not throw off the sync of other movies enough to notice - it's plausible this is what's happening for some of the naysayers.

And yes, I also experience the sync problem. Xbox 360, optical audio to Denon 1603, component video direct to Mitsu 65411 CRT RPTV, DD+ and TrueHD audio track, both exhibit the problem.

Best way to check is pay very close attention to any fight scene. The sound of any hit, kick, head butt, etc. will always come a very tiny split second late, while the arm is rebounding or the head is flying back, instead of instantly upon contact. Definitely off-kilter compared to other movies, or to other sources of The Matrix. You can also tell on dialog but it's more hit and miss due to the issue being so subtle, depends on how sensitive to it you are. (It's basically the LEAST noticeable sync problem I've ever seen, but that doesn't make it any less annoying and it certainly doesn't mean I'm content to live with it.)

A kind mod suggested a new thread, far more specific. So I am starting TWO new threads.
Strange that they'd suggest that, but OK, I'll bite. Yes, I have the audio sync problem with The Matrix (and not Reloaded or Revolutions), and I find it quite annoying.


HD-DVD player, model and firmware. Xbox 360 HD DVD. Latest updates when the disc came out.

Audio equipment, make and model. Kenwood VR-510. I'll try my other receiver later.

http://z.about.com/d/hometheater/1/0/H/2/vr-510.JPG

How your equipment is connected. Optical through Zektor HDS4.1 switch, and IIRC I also tried stereo analogue.

What soundtrack you have listened to. DD+ and DTHD --> DTS and DD.

---

P.S. Some people have argued that foley effects are a bad thing to test, but I submit that they should be OK to test if the DVD doesn't exhibit similar problems with them. However, I noticed them first with lip syncing actually. It may be hard to notice in some scenes because the delay is small, and many of the scenes are very dark, etc.

Oh and I sent Warner Home Video a letter many months ago, and never heard back.

Questions to the OP

1. Does the sound lag appear in all Matrix episodes ?
2. Can you post the chapter # and timings ?
3. Does this happen when connected via AV Receiver or even when directly hooked up to the telly ?

I'm not the OP but:

1) AFAIK, no. Just the first movie.
2) It's throughout the whole movie as far as I can tell.
3) IIRC, I also tried analogue stereo at one point (through the receiver), but got the same result.

FWIW, I was one of the big complainers about the Xbox 360 audio lag problem (see sig) way back, and this is NOT it (or else not it alone). Why? Because all my other audio lag problems at the time were corrected when MS released the HD DVD update a few months ago. The Matrix stood out as the lone laggy disc.

pankwindu and bug, YES, Mark Rubin did, in fact, suggest a new thread after I reported some disgusting posts. In the last ten minutes of the life of that thread two people took upon themselves to say things that usually result in an account suspension.

Mark suggested a new, specific thread. At the same time another mod deleted the original thread because of the nasty posts that had been put up.

I thank everyone for posting their equipment. A list will be compiled and compared to the list of rfolks who have no issue. If there seems to be equipment on both sides that is the same, then we know we have one very screwed up, insane problem on our hands.

Again, I urge ALL of you to call Warner Bros. The number is posted in an earlier post. Not calling will only keep this problem swept under the rug.

And email dvdfile and thedigitalbits.com as well. Public pressure and humiliation may be our last hope. Not some droids. :)

And email dvdfile and thedigitalbits.com as well. Public pressure and humiliation may be our last hope. Not some droids. :)


All you credibility has just gone down the pan. :(

All you credibility has just gone down the pan. :(

Well, though he and I have had some friction in this thread, I appreciate what he's trying to do, he's just going about it all wrong with the Digital Bits thing. Hunt will NEVER take up a cause for HD DVD.......EVER. Now, watch, if the BR version is like that you'll see a whining campaign from our beloved shill unlike anything we've experienced before(and that's saying something coming from Bill).

Emailing WB directly is the best shot, but there's not enough of us to make a dent. This ISN'T the site to do something like that on. What he needs to remember is that this is a very upscale, almost elitist site where virtually EVERY member has a very expensive setup and makes use of the top of the line features when made available. So, noone is using DD+ or even downscaling it via optical or coaxial digital output. They don't have any problems using DDTHD, and they are the majority. Our few emails to WB aren't going to cause enough of an issue to have them making a recall, sadly.

Though I too experience the issue(as I mention is post #2), I can get over it(Reloaded is my favorite anyway) and it's not really that bad to most people. If WB issues a recall, awesome. If not, well..

All you credibility has just gone down the pan. :(
Excuse me, but what in the hell are you talking about? How in the hell is MY credibility harmed? WHat the hell did I do? I am trying to get to thje bottom of this by any means necessary. Some will just sit back and take it in the rear from Warner, but I will not. I want answers. I want to know why so many people have an audio delay on this ONE TITLE.

And I brought my Toshiba with me to my buddy's place in Charlotte Tuesday and hooked it up to his Sony Wega XBR, an older non-HD tube set with 16X9 squeeze. Audio was analog L/R into the TV.

DigitalMan, it is YOUR opinion that the audio delay is not that bad. The fact is, most who have the problem do not agree with you. Just because you don't care doesn't make it OK.

Please refrain from responding. You have made your opinion known. I need this thread to stay on topic and just have people report the equipment they have.

This is very simple. STAY ON TOPIC, please. The purpose of this one thread is made clear in post #1, so there is no need to push it into different territory.

Thank you

I didn't tell him why I was doing this. I just said watch and listen. The delay was clear as day to him in less than a minute.

Yeah, sure. There is no prpblem here. :rolleyes:

Matt, I think your humour detector is a little off today.

Note the highlighted text in his quote.

Excuse me, but what in the hell are you talking about? How in the hell is MY credibility harmed? WHat the hell did I do? I am trying to get to thje bottom of this by any means necessary. Some will just sit back and take it in the rear from Warner, but I will not. I want answers. I want to know why so many people have an audio delay on this ONE TITLE.




I have no problem with this but as soon as you went complaining to Digitalbits I have to start questioning your motives or your judgement. Everyone here knows what Digitalbits stands for and it's not a place to ask for help on HD DVD titles.

Are you getting the delay by HDMI with True HD?

Or just by downconverting True HD to DD+ output by analog outs/toslink, etc.?

Jeff, if thedigitalbits.com was so biased, then they would have gone after Warner for this long ago. Why? Because they knew about it long ago. But their system doesn't show the problem and as a result, they say they cannot do anything about it.

You can question my motives all you want and I do not care. My motives are simple. GET THIS FIXED. What is so hard to understand about that?

John, I stated above, I do not use HDMI because I can't with my setup. I have tried both soundtracks via Coxial, Optical and analog outs.

I have 2 sets of the Ultimate Collection in my possession because I contacted Amazon for an exchange due to Reloaded being defective. It turns out my replacement is defective too.

Try again with firmware 2.5. My copy of Matrix Reloaded now loads consistently without the 408bc204 error since the update.

Will firmware 2.5 make it impossible to play home made HD-DVD's? I can play them with any firmware up to 2.0, but have had real trouble with anything past that. I am still at 2.0 now, having reverted back to it a few times.

Try again with firmware 2.5. My copy of Matrix Reloaded now loads consistently without the 408bc204 error since the update.

That's good news, I just wish Toshiba would release it! I could get the 2.5 firmware I suppose, but since they pulled it off their site it kinda makes me want to wait until 2.6 is up, since obviously something was wrong with or missing from 2.5. The only problem is I don't have much longer to wait until at least one of these sets has to be put in the mail to go back to Amazon. I might just end up grabbing 2.5 to try in the interim.