http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=8810

I knew about this earlier, but needed a better source.

399 ps3 for christmas.

Well...that's better than a sharp stick in the eye.....and 5 free BD's to boot wouldn't hurt either..

It's a rumor, it belongs to the rumor thread.

Well...that's better than a sharp stick in the eye.....and 5 free BD's to boot wouldn't hurt either..

or a kick in the nuts. :D

hopefully this will bring down prices of stand-alone players from other manufacturers as well. i think if bd can get a player out with full features (decodes truehd unlike the s300) at $400 blu-ray can really take off.

Still not worth buying any BD player until it has been confirmed that the one you're buying is capable of profile 2.0 (BD Live).

Now if only there was *one* good game to play.

PS3 PR should read, "PS3 - the ultimate BD player. Plays games also!"

Now if only there was *one* good game to play.

PS3 PR should read, "PS3 - the ultimate BD player. Plays games also!"

that is actually how i looked at it when i bought mine, a bd player that also plays games. games will come, i just wonder what the state of the format will be when they do. very much looking forward to final fantasy xiii as the first game i ever buy on ps3. the 30fps issue killed it for me on madden 08.

Now if only there was *one* good game to play.

PS3 PR should read, "PS3 - the ultimate BD player. Plays games also!"

+1

You beat me to it!

What? We don't have a BD Player Forum or a Gaming Forum here at AVS?

It is just a rumor, but it would be huge if it happens.

It's a rumor, it belongs to the rumor thread.I agree. Just because a magazine reports a rumor (or, in this case, reports the report of a rumor), doesn't make it anything more than a rumor. Now if some reporters would get off their lazy behinds and actually try to confirm the story, then it could be elevated. Until then, it's just another unfounded rumor and belongs in the rumor thread IMO.

It is just a rumor, but it would be huge if it happens.

Bundle it with the next big FF and I'm sold.

I said this before on another thread on this topic; this could be significant if true. It's a big step for most people to go from 399 to 499 for a game console. Look how many Xbox360's were sold at that price.

I sincerely do not understand Blu-Ray CE companies..if PS3 goes $399, if I was a Panasonic, Samsung, LG, Sharp ..I would be ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS...

Who in the right mind would buy any Blu-Ray standalone at $500+ prices then?

I just don't get this whole strategy. Why these guys are putting up with this is beyond me. $399 for a gaming console with Blu-Ray playback is even worse then $499 or $599 gaming console that was actually in the same price range...now all BD players are pretty much $500+ and this console *might* be $399.

I'd go apesh!t if I was any of these CE companies. Especially considering that the only 2 Blu-Ray players that are being sold in any countable quantity are both from Sony. The BDP-300 and PS3.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Sony just needs to pick a friggin hard disk size and stick with it. 40/60/80g drives every other week. Who the heck can keep up? Why would a sensible person buy a PS3 for games if the price and specs fluctuate every week? Stupid stupid stupid.

I sincerely do not understand Blu-Ray CE companies..if PS3 goes $399, if I was a Panasonic, Samsung, LG, Sharp ..I would be ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS...

Who in the right mind would buy any Blu-Ray standalone at $500+ prices then?

I just don't get this whole strategy. Why these guys are putting up with this is beyond me. $399 for a gaming console with Blu-Ray playback is even worse then $499 or $599 gaming console that was actually in the same price range...now all BD players are pretty much $500+ and this console *might* be $399.

I'd go apesh!t if I was any of these CE companies. Especially considering that the only 2 Blu-Ray players that are being sold in any countable quantity are both from Sony. The BDP-300 and PS3.

Absolutely ridiculous.

In all seriousness though... who really is buying BD standalone players at $500+ prices as it stands now? I agree that those CE companies would be angry, but it really is high time they dropped their prices to remain competitive with HD-DVD anyway.

If it is true it sounds like an act of desperation! I believe they are already losing money on these consoles as it is....good luck with that!

Hey, for $399 I would buy one. Maybe by the time it drops there will be something to play...

Also, I just read that PS3's are costing Sony $822 per unit. So if they go ahead with this they would be losing $423 on each unit sold.

To reiterate, Sony would be *losing* more money on each console than the Xbox360 retails for. Talk about smart business.

I remember reading this analyst prediction like a month ago, I guess this article is just trying to spin an older one.

How is this a "Sony Secret Weapon" if everyone is posting about it already...

Come 'on at lest put this in the rumor thread. Unless it's an official PR, put it where it belongs.

-Splints

How is this a "Sony Secret Weapon" if everyone is posting about it already...

Come 'on at lest put this in the rumor thread. Unless it's an official PR, put it where it belongs.

-Splints

We were supposed to be "trojan horsed" as well with a blu-ray player, despite Sony actually telling us it does indeed contain a blu-ray player, lol

It is good to read many posts of people buying the PS3 for its superb PS3 playback and get back into gaming as well :)

Was this thread moved or something? What are all these HD media zealouts doing in the Playstation forum?!

I would buy the PS3 for 399, get the free movies, sell most of them and keep the player around for any films I wanted bad but were BD only.

I don't play games, so it will be only a BD player.

Hey, for $399 I would buy one. Maybe by the time it drops there will be something to play...

Also, I just read that PS3's are costing Sony $822 per unit. So if they go ahead with this they would be losing $423 on each unit sold.

To reiterate, Sony would be *losing* more money on each console than the Xbox360 retails for. Talk about smart business.

Ok, this $822 per unit amount getting thrown around is really getting obnoxious. I don't own a ps3, or any blu-ray player. I own an A2 with a few HD DVDs.

The $822 number was the estimated (unconfirmed!) cost per unit 10 months ago before the November launch of the PS3. Anyone who thinks fabrication costs haven't dropped substantially in that time frame is just being silly. Is the PS3 still being subsidized? Most likely I would think, yes. I am sure Sony is selling it for as little as they can get away with, but a near 50% loss is out of the question.

There is no way that something they may consider to sell at $399 costs more than $800 to build.

Has Sony confirmed that the PS3 will support Profile 1.1? If they did I didn't see it. To me it sounds like it won't.

Why spend that much money of an obsolete player?

I think that it's hilarious that Sony would make ALL existing BD players obsolete with one change to their still moving target spec. But you have to remember it is Sony.

BTW...I am a PS3 owner. :eek:

Now if only there was *one* good game to play.

PS3 PR should read, "PS3 - the ultimate BD player. Plays games also!"

If only you had a brain, you could post things that actually make sense.

If only you had a brain, you could post things that actually make sense.

Don't get mad at me just because you spent $1000+ buying the PS3 off ebay on release day.

i agree with Dralt. and no, i didn't pay $1000 for a PS3 on launch, not even close.

Has Sony confirmed that the PS3 will support Profile 1.1? If they did I didn't see it. To me it sounds like it won't.

Why spend that much money of an obsolete player?

I think that it's hilarious that Sony would make ALL existing BD players obsolete with one change to their still moving target spec. But you have to remember it is Sony.

BTW...I am a PS3 owner. :eek:

why wouldnt it? so far every thing people accused it of not being able to do, firmware added.

deeper blacks. done
24hz. done
upscaling. done.
media streaming. done

Has Sony confirmed that the PS3 will support Profile 1.1? If they did I didn't see it. To me it sounds like it won't.

Why spend that much money of an obsolete player?

I think that it's hilarious that Sony would make ALL existing BD players obsolete with one change to their still moving target spec. But you have to remember it is Sony.

BTW...I am a PS3 owner. :eek:

Not sure what Profile 1.1 is but the PS3 isn't really an obsolete player considering it still plays BD movies and they still look damn good, I'd love to have one no matter how "obsolete" it is. O and in case no one told you: early adopters always get shafted, if you want the best of the best you're never gonna buy, if you want the next great technology ASAP you're gonna miss out on something down the line, it doesn't make anything obsolete it just makes the new players better; it's a toss-up, do you want it now? or do you want it better next year?

That would be a pretty good move.

I will buy one at $399.

Here is my only question. The BB by my house must have 3 full pallets of 60 gig units on the floor. If the price drop happens and there are still 60 gig units available, what will they be priced at? Maybe one of those rare retail occurrences where 2 separate skus are the same price?

why wouldnt it? so far every thing people accused it of not being able to do, firmware added.

deeper blacks. done
24hz. done
upscaling. done.
media streaming. done

My question is very simple. If the PS3 is capable of supporting profile 1.1 why hasn't Sony stated that it will?

As for firmware fixing the problem, why not then upgrade the firmware on the standalone BD players? I am not aware of ANY standalone BD player that can be upgraded to profile 1.1. That is why I am saying that all existing stanalone BD players will all be obsolete. Not a pretty picture IMHO.

Not sure what Profile 1.1 is but the PS3 isn't really an obsolete player considering it still plays BD movies and they still look damn good, I'd love to have one no matter how "obsolete" it is. O and in case no one told you: early adopters always get shafted, if you want the best of the best you're never gonna buy, if you want the next great technology ASAP you're gonna miss out on something down the line, it doesn't make anything obsolete it just makes the new players better; it's a toss-up, do you want it now? or do you want it better next year?

I agree that being an early adopter does have risks. But to have the BDA make everything obsolete is insane. Because of this I really do not believe that they will ever implement the profile change. My GUESS is that the BDA will spin it saying that Profile 1.0 is all that we really need.

I sincerely do not understand Blu-Ray CE companies..if PS3 goes $399, if I was a Panasonic, Samsung, LG, Sharp ..I would be ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS...

Who in the right mind would buy any Blu-Ray standalone at $500+ prices then?

I just don't get this whole strategy. Why these guys are putting up with this is beyond me. $399 for a gaming console with Blu-Ray playback is even worse then $499 or $599 gaming console that was actually in the same price range...now all BD players are pretty much $500+ and this console *might* be $399.

I'd go apesh!t if I was any of these CE companies. Especially considering that the only 2 Blu-Ray players that are being sold in any countable quantity are both from Sony. The BDP-300 and PS3.

Absolutely ridiculous.

They are gonna be furious and all revolt to HD DVD. That way they only need to compete with $199-$299 players....

Hey, for $399 I would buy one. Maybe by the time it drops there will be something to play...

Also, I just read that PS3's are costing Sony $822 per unit. So if they go ahead with this they would be losing $423 on each unit sold.

To reiterate, Sony would be *losing* more money on each console than the Xbox360 retails for. Talk about smart business.


it took sony years to make any money of the ps2.... but with ps3 struggling much more than ps2 did... who knows if they wille ver make money off ps3

Ok, this $822 per unit amount getting thrown around is really getting obnoxious. I don't own a ps3, or any blu-ray player. I own an A2 with a few HD DVDs.

The $822 number was the estimated (unconfirmed!) cost per unit 10 months ago before the November launch of the PS3. Anyone who thinks fabrication costs haven't dropped substantially in that time frame is just being silly. Is the PS3 still being subsidized? Most likely I would think, yes. I am sure Sony is selling it for as little as they can get away with, but a near 50% loss is out of the question.

There is no way that something they may consider to sell at $399 costs more than $800 to build.

Agreed. When the PS3 1st launch, the estimate was that the $599 player cost ~$850 to develop and make. However, with the blue lasers getting cheaper and production becoming smoother they estimated a $100 dollar decrease in prduction costs (thus the 100 dollar reduction around E3). Similarly, they maybe continuing to improve efficiancy and thus drop prices even more (even if they cut costs by $100 and sell at $399, they will still be loosing the same amount of money as when they started as they are transfering the saving to the conusmers.

i look at the ps3 as being a bit future-proof... i assume that with any revision between now and the final version of bd profiles, the change is only a firmware upgrade away (i dont think the the laser reading capabilities are going to be any different)...

Games? Is the price drop suddenly going to entice developers to produce quality software?

This is nothing more than a shot to the bottom line for Sony, since they aren't making squat on game sales. I imagine of course they expect to make it up in BR media.

i look at the ps3 as being a bit future-proof.

Is that because the PS3's success is always in the future?:confused:

Please take this format bickering filth back to your cesspool.

Thanks.

wow at this rate i'll get my $300 PS3 by next year. :)

I sincerely do not understand Blu-Ray CE companies..if PS3 goes $399, if I was a Panasonic, Samsung, LG, Sharp ..I would be ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS...

Who in the right mind would buy any Blu-Ray standalone at $500+ prices then?

I just don't get this whole strategy. Why these guys are putting up with this is beyond me. $399 for a gaming console with Blu-Ray playback is even worse then $499 or $599 gaming console that was actually in the same price range...now all BD players are pretty much $500+ and this console *might* be $399.

I'd go apesh!t if I was any of these CE companies. Especially considering that the only 2 Blu-Ray players that are being sold in any countable quantity are both from Sony. The BDP-300 and PS3.

Absolutely ridiculous.

Mellow out dude. There are much more important things to go "apesh!t" over. ;)

The CE makers probably know a certain segment of the market won't buy the PS3 no matter how great a BD player it is. They are happy to take that market.

Have you checked your ISP? ;)

They are gonna be furious and all revolt to HD DVD. That way they only need to compete with $199-$299 players....

Exactly. Toshiba is definitely cutting off more b@lls than the PS3. Strange double standard here from HD DVD fanboys.

the problem is if they dont start to generate serious sales the console war will be over before it even starts. sony has already lost a bunch of "big" initial exclusives because the install base is so much higher on the 360 and if they dont start selling in real quantities nobody in their right might beyond sce would make games on the ps3.

i really think sony made a huge mistake with the ps3 and were arrogant enough to think people would buy it on the name alone. thats turned out to be false and its causing sony to have to redo their strategies.

I hate when this sh*t comes over here. Keep it in the loony forums.

Last I heard one of the reasons that the BR players on market now can't be firmware updated is there is no usb or ethernet hookup on them to impliment the firmware upgrade. The new ones will have this feature, and we already know the ps3 has these connections aswell as the hardware requirements to support version 1.1. So hopefully it should all but be a firmware update to support this feature for the ps3. As with sales everything that I have read is that the sales of the ps3 are comparable to when the ps2 first hit the market if not better than the ps2 sales. Just my 2 cents.

The issue with the profiles (I think) is that current standalones don't have the hardware to use 1.1.
But the hardware is their for the ps3. Its just a matter of creating a patch that can utlize that hardware and allow the use of the new profiles..

What the new profile does is allows futher use of BDJ which is like IME on HD-DVD. From what I've read the movie portion of the BD wil always play on all players. Their just may be some extras that won't. Such as PIP. So far any PIP discs have had 2 encodes of the film. 1 with the window one with out. Which is a benifit of the 50GBs. As you can do this with out losing any information

I hate when this sh*t comes over here. Keep it in the loony forums.

I think it's hysterical that the gaming forums have become an oasis of sanity in the last few months.
Over in the "loony forums", they blame the gamers for the downfall of AVS with all this format bickering garbage. :rolleyes:

In reality gamers have known the deal for years - you want all the content, buy all the consoles.
You don't hear us crying about exclusives. BOO HOO Konami won't make MGS games for Xbox. Waaaah, no Halo 3 on PS3! ;)

Sony's secret weapon should be a $200 PS3 and an exclusive game that everybody that owns a ps2 would pay to upgrade for. Thats really all there is to it.

I sometimes forget that kids play video games too. These consoles (360 and PS3) are priced for adults that can afford them. Do you know how many 12-16yr olds out there don't have jobs? The price cut will help; but its got to get down really low.

Look at the wii. Its price point is what is selling it IMO.

I will buy one at $399.

Here is my only question. The BB by my house must have 3 full pallets of 60 gig units on the floor. If the price drop happens and there are still 60 gig units available, what will they be priced at? Maybe one of those rare retail occurrences where 2 separate skus are the same price?

Anyone have and opinion on this?

Now if only there was *one* good game to play.

PS3 PR should read, "PS3 - the ultimate BD player. Plays games also!"

I was at BestBuy talking to a Sony rep last Friday about the 3000 series TVs and he said the PS3 is actually a sub par Blu-Ray player compared to the Sony stand alone Blu-Ray player. So maybe not "The ultimate" :D

Anyone have and opinion on this?

I thought Sony's stance on this was that pricing would be decided once the retail channels were completely empty of 60GB's?

We all expect the 80GB's to drop to $499, but of course nothing is official yet...

Who knows, maybe they'll do a fire sale on the 60's if they don't clear fast enough (in time for the holidays, perhaps).

I was at BestBuy talking to a Sony rep last Friday about the 3000 series TVs and he said the PS3 is actually a sub par Blu-Ray player compared to the Sony stand alone Blu-Ray player. So maybe not "The ultimate" :D

If there's anything to learn from AVS Forum, it's that you never take a Best Buy, Circuit City, et al sales rep's opinion seriously. If you've spent more than a month or two on here, odds are that you know a hell of a lot more about their products than they do.

Opinions of standalones vs. game machines aside, I don't think anybody could rationally argue that the PS3 is sub-par as a Blu-ray player.

If there's anything to learn from AVS Forum, it's that you never take a Best Buy, Circuit City, et al sales rep's opinion seriously. If you've spent more than a month or two on here, odds are that you know a hell of a lot more about their products than they do.

Opinions of standalones vs. game machines aside, I don't think anybody could rationally argue that the PS3 is sub-par as a Blu-ray player.

Agreed

I have always been a sony guy...I even waited to get a next gen console while all my friends had the 360, and then sony announced the $600 price tag, to me it was a slap in the face to bring this console out at that price, the next day I went and purchased a 360 premium package with 4 games and an extra wireless controller for $582...still less than just the ps3.

Now I am so glad I went the 360 route, I agree with the changing specs and hard drives every other week its ridiculous along with the fact that (i may be wrong here) have they ever delivered on 1080p resolution yet or are there still probs and peeps getting 720p? (all my 360 games play in 1080p)

This would be an act of desperation IMO if they dropped to $399, which is still $50 higher than the 360 premium with HDMI. I would have to look at it really hard but my gaming time is limited so I cant justify spending $500 plus another $200 for games and perphs when I have the 360 and an HD-DVD player...I would love to play motorstorm but other than that there's not alot on the ps3 to pursuade consumers to purchase one...IMO.

It's too little too late sony, this is one console they flubbed on and its a shame because the ps one and ps2 ruled the console and game market for years.....

Now I am so glad I went the 360 route, I agree with the changing specs and hard drives every other week its ridiculous along with the fact that (i may be wrong here) have they ever delivered on 1080p resolution yet or are there still probs and peeps getting 720p? (all my 360 games play in 1080p)As opposed to the 360's high failure rate? Or, how about the fact that MS has released the Elite, which has HDMI functionality, AND started recently issuing Premiums with HDMI ports? PS3 has true 1080p games (Lair & Marvel Ultimate Alliance immediately come to mind). And, correct me if I'm wrong, upscaling 720p games to 1080p does not make the 360 games true 1080p.This would be an act of desperation IMO if they dropped to $399, which is still $50 higher than the 360 premium with HDMI. I would have to look at it really hard but my gaming time is limited so I cant justify spending $500 plus another $200 for games and perphs when I have the 360 and an HD-DVD player...I would love to play motorstorm but other than that there's not alot on the ps3 to pursuade consumers to purchase one...IMO.

It's too little too late sony, this is one console they flubbed on and its a shame because the ps one and ps2 ruled the console and game market for years.....So, first you complain about the initial price, and then complain about price drops?

Assuming the PS3 were to drop down to $399, and the 360 Premium w/ HDMI were only $50 less, at least the PS3 has wireless and a high-def optical drive included. Were as, the 360 requires additional proprietary hardware that MS can control the price point on. Tack on those unit plus additional hardware would make it more than the PS3. Not to mention, the Premium has a 20gb HDD, correct? While the PS3 has 60gb, and allows you to use any off-the-shelf brand to upgrade your HDD storage, while MS has proprietary HDDs that, again, MS controls the price point on.

I have always been a sony guy...I even waited to get a next gen console while all my friends had the 360, and then sony announced the $600 price tag, to me it was a slap in the face to bring this console out at that price, the next day I went and purchased a 360 premium package with 4 games and an extra wireless controller for $582...still less than just the ps3.

Now I am so glad I went the 360 route, I agree with the changing specs and hard drives every other week its ridiculous along with the fact that (i may be wrong here) have they ever delivered on 1080p resolution yet or are there still probs and peeps getting 720p? (all my 360 games play in 1080p)

This would be an act of desperation IMO if they dropped to $399, which is still $50 higher than the 360 premium with HDMI. I would have to look at it really hard but my gaming time is limited so I cant justify spending $500 plus another $200 for games and perphs when I have the 360 and an HD-DVD player...I would love to play motorstorm but other than that there's not alot on the ps3 to pursuade consumers to purchase one...IMO.

It's too little too late sony, this is one console they flubbed on and its a shame because the ps one and ps2 ruled the console and game market for years.....

I'm glad you are happy with your purchase

now, in respect of that, could you please mind that I am happy with my decision regarless of any reason, special features, or lack thereof.

I can understand your arguments, and you just need to use the search button to see this is the 1,000,000th post on the pro's/cons of either decision in a forum clearly marked to be avoided if the ps3 is not your choice.

I have always been a sony guy...I even waited to get a next gen console while all my friends had the 360, and then sony announced the $600 price tag, to me it was a slap in the face to bring this console out at that price, the next day I went and purchased a 360 premium package with 4 games and an extra wireless controller for $582...still less than just the ps3.

Now I am so glad I went the 360 route, I agree with the changing specs and hard drives every other week its ridiculous along with the fact that (i may be wrong here) have they ever delivered on 1080p resolution yet or are there still probs and peeps getting 720p? (all my 360 games play in 1080p)

This would be an act of desperation IMO if they dropped to $399, which is still $50 higher than the 360 premium with HDMI. I would have to look at it really hard but my gaming time is limited so I cant justify spending $500 plus another $200 for games and perphs when I have the 360 and an HD-DVD player...I would love to play motorstorm but other than that there's not alot on the ps3 to pursuade consumers to purchase one...IMO.

It's too little too late sony, this is one console they flubbed on and its a shame because the ps one and ps2 ruled the console and game market for years.....
There are so many things wrong with this I barely know where to start. How much was your 360 with the HD-DVD add on again? I think your math is a little off. Changing specs ridiculous? And then you mention the addition of HDMI? And please, help me find the list of 360 games in 1080p.

.. I apologize to AVS readers for being sucked in to this.. but c'mon, sometimes you have to draw the line.

what's with the format war crap getting dumped here. Thread should just be locked or deleted.

Another rumor that drives PS3 bashers crazy.

If there's anything to learn from AVS Forum, it's that you never take a Best Buy, Circuit City, et al sales rep's opinion seriously. If you've spent more than a month or two on here, odds are that you know a hell of a lot more about their products than they do.

Opinions of standalones vs. game machines aside, I don't think anybody could rationally argue that the PS3 is sub-par as a Blu-ray player.

agreed. i bet the ps3 doesn't have as much of a markup as the others, though, and that's why it's sub par.

agreed. i bet the ps3 doesn't have as much of a markup as the others, though, and that's why it's sub par.

What affect does markup have on quality?

There are so many things wrong with this I barely know where to start. How much was your 360 with the HD-DVD add on again? I think your math is a little off. Changing specs ridiculous? And then you mention the addition of HDMI? And please, help me find the list of 360 games in 1080p.

.. I apologize to AVS readers for being sucked in to this.. but c'mon, sometimes you have to draw the line.


Your right and I agree with you 100 percent. The $399 PS3 is comming and it will be this christmas...Bluray Profile 2.0 will be supported by the PS3 in a firmware update.

I think it's hysterical that the gaming forums have become an oasis of sanity in the last few months.
Over in the "loony forums", they blame the gamers for the downfall of AVS with all this format bickering garbage. :rolleyes:

In reality gamers have known the deal for years - you want all the content, buy all the consoles.
You don't hear us crying about exclusives. BOO HOO Konami won't make MGS games for Xbox. Waaaah, no Halo 3 on PS3! ;)

So very true. What that area needs is more cowbell,.. I mean more Kysersose ;)

I think $399 is the price it should have been launched at to begin with. Anything above that.. and well you see what has happened..

At $399 with its current gaming library and BR playback.. I'd pretty much swipe the card for it without much thought.

The only problem with the $399 rumour though is:

1) It will keep people on the fence who were thinking about the current $499 system..

2) It still seems too good to be true. How is it possible they can release a $399 system thats 20% cheaper ($100 cheaper) and the only difference in hardware is the hardrive is 33% smaller?

I've compared the costs of harddrives on sites like Newegg.. and a 40gig 2.5inch harddrive is only about $10-15 bucks cheaper than a $60 gig. And thats retail pricing. I'm sure on the wholesale level the difference is only about $5-10 bucks between the 40 and 60.

I find it hard to believe Sony would add another $90+ loss to each PS3 sale.. after it just cut the price by $100 a little over a month ago.

What affect does markup have on quality?
I think he means from a big box retailer's stand-point; they're not making much money on PS3's, but the margins are likely higher on pricey stand-alones.

Basically the player that corporate tells them to push is always going to be "superior."

I think $399 is the price it should have been launched at to begin with. Anything above that.. and well you see what has happened.. I promise you that Sony was not throwing darts when coming up with a launch price. They simply couldn't decide to release it at $399 just to be in-line with their competition. Business models for console releases already dictate that the manufacture of the systems themselves is a losing endeavor for a number of years. The only question is to what degree can the manufacturer afford to subsidize this loss to keep the price point affordable to its customer base. The quality components of PS3 make it a very expensive system to manufacture; on the order of $800+ at launch. Going to $399 retail at that point would have driven their business unit loss to new lows and, subsequently, the stock price. It's a difficult balancing act between appeasing customers & investors.

I find it hard to believe Sony would add another $90+ loss to each PS3 sale.. after it just cut the price by $100 a little over a month ago.
PS3 has benefited from economies of scale and reduced component cost since launch. These processes are continually improving and lowering the amount of subsidy required. At this point, they are still willing to take a loss but the snowball has begun to roll. They can afford to lower the retail price of their product without affecting (increasing) their loss margins significantly. This will lead to many more units sold and, eventually, (once they declare a price floor) they will turn a profit on the hardware itself; though this usually doesn't happen for 3-5 years.

I'm not sure what the current results are. I did read a chart showing that the PS3 sold more in the first 4 months of its life than the 360 did for its first for months. All despite the $100 price difference.

I promise you that Sony was not throwing darts when coming up with a launch price. They simply couldn't decide to release it at $399 just to be in-line with their competition. Business models for console releases already dictate that the manufacture of the systems themselves is a losing endeavor for a number of years. The only question is to what degree can the manufacturer afford to subsidize this loss to keep the price point affordable to its customer base. The quality components of PS3 make it a very expensive system to manufacture; on the order of $800+ at launch. Going to $399 retail at that point would have driven their business unit loss to new lows and, subsequently, the stock price. It's a difficult balancing act between appeasing customers & investors.


PS3 has benefited from economies of scale and reduced component cost since launch. These processes are continually improving and lowering the amount of subsidy required. At this point, they are still willing to take a loss but the snowball has begun to roll. They can afford to lower the retail price of their product without affecting (increasing) their loss margins significantly. This will lead to many more units sold and, eventually, (once they declare a price floor) they will turn a profit on the hardware itself; though this usually doesn't happen for 3-5 years.

The other part of the equation is that they DO make money on the games that are sold. Sony knew what their lineup was going to look like for the first year and knew what their profit should be on that. When you see price drops it is not only because of manufacturing efficiency but it is also because more games are being sold or some big games are about to be released.

I'm not sure what the current results are. I did read a chart showing that the PS3 sold more in the first 4 months of its life than the 360 did for its first for months. All despite the $100 price difference.

$200, Brian...$200. (which is more impressive) :eek:

There's a very real possibility that the $399 40GB PS3 model that goes on sale will cost Sony exactly the same to manufacture as the $499 80GB model. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the $399 PS3 model came with 80GB drives installed, but firmware modified to only make 40GB accessible. The reason being that 40GB drives likely cost exactly the same or more in bulk at this stage as the 80GB drives.

So if that's the case, the main reason Sony will continue to sell the 80GB version is as a value differentiator, hoping that most people will opt for the more expensive model to gain the extra 40GB of disk space (And possibly a pack in game or movie bundle). This will lessen the losses on each unit.

Sony realizes it needs to get a PS3 SKU (Any SKU) down to $399 ASAP in order to generate some serious mainstream consumer interest in the PS3 and actually enjoy some decent sales this holiday season. So short term, they're just gonna have to suck up further losses in order for the platform to make some headway.

$200, Brian...$200. (which is more impressive) :eek:

Fair enough as the skus at launch agree with you. I was going for the somewhat equivilant comparison (20GB vs. 20GB).

[QUOTE=ppshooky;11590931]As opposed to the 360's high failure rate? Or, how about the fact that MS has released the Elite, which has HDMI functionality, AND started recently issuing Premiums with HDMI ports? PS3 has true 1080p games (Lair & Marvel Ultimate Alliance immediately come to mind). And, correct me if I'm wrong, upscaling 720p games to 1080p does not make the 360 games true 1080p.So, first you complain about the initial price, and then complain about price drops?

Yeah and they received quite a high score on IGN, Gamespot,... ;)
I'll take Gears of War, Bioshock, Kameo, PGR3,... at 720p against those 1080p crappy games.
And I do own a PS3.

I'm not sure what the current results are. I did read a chart showing that the PS3 sold more in the first 4 months of its life than the 360 did for its first for months. All despite the $100 price difference.


But that was due to the supply constraint. Price didn't deminish demand for the 360, MS simply couldn't meet the demand.

But that was due to the supply constraint. Price didn't deminish demand for the 360, MS simply couldn't meet the demand.

I really don't know when the supply met the demand on the 360 as every has different anecdotal evidence.

Any stats on how they matched up in sales after a year or longer even?

As opposed to the 360's high failure rate? Or, how about the fact that MS has released the Elite, which has HDMI functionality, AND started recently issuing Premiums with HDMI ports? PS3 has true 1080p games (Lair & Marvel Ultimate Alliance immediately come to mind). And, correct me if I'm wrong, upscaling 720p games to 1080p does not make the 360 games true 1080p.So, first you complain about the initial price, and then complain about price drops?

Yeah and they received quite a high score on IGN, Gamespot,... ;)
I'll take Gears of War, Bioshock, Kameo, PGR3,... at 720p against those 1080p crappy games.
And I do own a PS3.Because gameplay quality has ANYTHING to do with the resolution the game is played at. My comment was in response to the misconception that the PS3 has no 1080p games, and all of the poster's 360 games are in 1080p.

I promise you that Sony was not throwing darts when coming up with a launch price. They simply couldn't decide to release it at $399 just to be in-line with their competition. And herein lies the rub: Sony couldn't (and still can't) figure out how to market the PS3. Hence, they couldn't figure out how best to price it at launch. It ended up in a no-man's land between gaming console pricing and new av technology pricing (i.e., expensive for a console, cheap(er) for a blu-ray player/htpc).

As much as people didn't (and don't) know what to make of the console, they know even less what to make of the price. Pricing defines the product category (not vice versa). Most consumers know what $399 means, but have no clue what a $599 product is. There're no substantial markets of any kind in that price range. I know this sounds strange, but it may actually have done better in its first year at a higher launch price (say, $799-$899); of course, it would have sold like mad at $399, but it would have meant admitting defeat before the product even launched.

The only people buying products in that $499-$599 price range are people like us in these AV forums. Mass consumers know that computers and (hd) tvs generally cost more than that, and that other components cost less. That was (and is) Sony's problem.

And herein lies the rub: Sony couldn't (and still can't) figure out how to market the PS3. Hence, they couldn't figure out how best to price it at launch. It ended up in a no-man's land between gaming console pricing and new av technology pricing (i.e., expensive for a console, cheap(er) for a blu-ray player/htpc).

As much as people didn't (and don't) know what to make of the console, they know even less what to make of the price. Pricing defines the product category (not vice versa). Most consumers know what $399 means, but have no clue what a $599 product is. There're no substantial markets of any kind in that price range. I know this sounds strange, but it may actually have done better in its first year at a higher launch price (say, $799-$899); of course, it would have sold like mad at $399, but it would have meant admitting defeat before the product even launched.

The only people buying products in that $499-$599 price range are people like us in these AV forums. Mass consumers know that computers and (hd) tvs generally cost more than that, and that other components cost less. That was (and is) Sony's problem.


I'd love to have Sony and the PS3's "problems".;)

And herein lies the rub:

The only people buying products in that $499-$599 price range are people like us in these AV forums. Mass consumers know that computers and (hd) tvs generally cost more than that, and that other components cost less. That was (and is) Sony's problem.

which is why they tried to market the device as a 'computer' of sorts. its unbelievable that an uninformed consumer will buy a new computer just to check email and surf the web faster. Heck, my computer is 5 years old because I know that any added value of upgrading my computer is not worth the expense, since i game and watch movies on the ps3.

mass consumers listen to marketers. we research. that is the difference. Sony is failing at marketing 101 right now, which is post the price of the cheap base model and charge an arm and a leg for the things that make it 'go faster'.

conversly, you could also say they did it right by giving us early adopters who 'research', the full package (hdmi, wirless, hardrive etc.). we would have blasted them for trying to pass off less. Now they have the greenlight for lesser models for the mass market.

I really don't know when the supply met the demand on the 360 as every has different anecdotal evidence.

Any stats on how they matched up in sales after a year or longer even?

It's my sense that they are doing about the same, (relative to their launch date) with MS being ahead in N.A., but Sony making up for it with Japan, and Europe running about even for them both.
Sorry I don't have the exact stats right now, but I'm not one of those people that thinks the PS3 is selling horribly, (although it might not be meeting some expectations)

It's my sense that they are doing about the same, (relative to their launch date) with MS being ahead in N.A., but Sony making up for it with Japan, and Europe running about even for them both.
Sorry I don't have the exact stats right now, but I'm not one of those people that thinks the PS3 is selling horribly, (although it might not be meeting some expectations)

Seems about what I remember reading somewhere. Of course the Wii doing amazing as well.

LMAO, I'm so glad I could post my opinion like everyone else did and get ripped to shreads..way to go guys... I never said anything about complaing about a price drop, I dont have the 360 HD-DVD add on, its a seperate player. And yeah I know the 360 has a bad failure rate, thats why I purchased a one year warr from EB games, I actually got the new premium last week with HDMI port when my other 360 has a disc drive problem. And yes all my 360 games play in 1080p, weather they are upscaled or not..its 1080p

Look I'm not sony bashing, the ps one and ps2 were great, I just think they went the wrong way with this console. I have played motorstorm and its an awesome game, but sony is losing exclusives everday it seems and alot of the sports games are reccomended by different reviewers to be purchased on teh 360..so whats the motovation to purchase a ps3? a blu ray player? perhaps but with an HD-DVD player thats not needed. Geese man I just wanted to stop by the ps3 boards and see what peeps were saying about it good or bad....talk about hardcore fan boys. At least I have an open mind to more than one system and just dont think the 360 is the bestest system evahhhhhh.

LMAO, I'm so glad I could post my opinion like everyone else did and get ripped to shreads..way to go guys... I never said anything about complaing about a price drop, I dont have the 360 HD-DVD add on, its a seperate player. And yeah I know the 360 has a bad failure rate, thats why I purchased a one year warr from EB games, I actually got the new premium last week with HDMI port when my other 360 has a disc drive problem. And yes all my 360 games play in 1080p, weather they are upscaled or not..its 1080p

Look I'm not sony bashing, the ps one and ps2 were great, I just think they went the wrong way with this console. I have played motorstorm and its an awesome game, but sony is losing exclusives everday it seems and alot of the sports games are reccomended by different reviewers to be purchased on teh 360..so whats the motovation to purchase a ps3? a blu ray player? perhaps but with an HD-DVD player thats not needed. Geese man I just wanted to stop by the ps3 boards and see what peeps were saying about it good or bad....talk about hardcore fan boys. At least I have an open mind to more than one system and just dont think the 360 is the bestest system evahhhhhh.


still having trouble finding that search button?

your 'opinon' is on a subject that has been beaten to death, burnt, buried, dug up, ressurrected with dark arts, then thrown off a bridge. It's dead.

I did not disagree with you. I ask that you do respect a sensitive issue and avoid trolling by doing your homework. Read before you talk.

Furthermore, you are greeted by a somewhat cold message (This area is for the PlayStation systems chat. If you are not an PlayStation user, this is NOT the place for you. We expect to NOT SEE attacks made for from people who do not prefer this platform.) when you enter this forum. The reason being that subjects like this, detract from the discussion of system and its games.

It would be like arguing about mac vs pc, in a forum dedicated to getting the most out of mac.

Seems about what I remember reading somewhere. Of course the Wii doing amazing as well.

Yeah, sales aren't as bad as some would make them out to be. I think's it's just relative to the unrealistic expectations people had (including Sony) about how quickly people would adopt a $500/$600 console.

But I am a playstation owner, I own both ps1 and ps2 and prolly in the future will buy a ps3..just not right now. When the price gets to a reasonable place and more games come out..I'll prolly buy..for now I'm going back to the 360 boards...peace out. I hope I didnt offend anyone

Everyone does realize over the past few weeks you have been able to buy the 60G PS3 for $349 from sonystyle don't you?

Some more 40 Gig fodder... maybe, maybe not

OET Exhibits List from FCC (https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=834016&fcc_id='AK8CBEH1000')

Notice link for label contains "Wifi"

Sources:

New PS3 SKU at FCC
(http://n4g.com/ps3/News-67734.aspx)

New PS3 SKU under testing = 40GB PS3 coming , IT HAS WI FI!!!!!
(http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?t=175620)

Everyone does realize over the past few weeks you have been able to buy the 60G PS3 for $349 from sonystyle don't you?

Some of us don't wanna sign up for a credit card just to save some cash on a video game system.