Hello guys,

I am seeking some advice from any owners of either machine or people who have viewed one or both of the mentioned machines.

I recently redid my basement and have a dedicated home theater room approx 21x21'. I currently have a troublesome RCA Scenium DLP 50" as my main tv in the focus of the room. I am going to most likely get one of these two projectors to put in the basement. The screen will eventually be an electric which drops infront of the RCA but for now due to costs will be a manual.

The only problem is I havent viewed either of these in person. Something that I am fine with as AVS members in the past have advised me in the right direction (LVM-37W3).

I went out this past weekend and viewed the similar panasonic, the 720p new mitsubishi and the epson 1080. I am blown away by projectors in general so this is a definite purchase.

I have finished reading the projector central reviews of both projectors, the "Official X owners" thread of each machine and all other reviews I could find on the internet regarding these machines. I came across a direct review between the two but the website forum was in a different language.

My Thoughts:

I am going to be projecting this on a 100" screen. For now it will be a low end screen as I want to put every dollar I can towards the projector, (and leave myself something to get a xmas :) ).

I also love the look of DLP. While I havent seen a ton of DLP projectors, I've always been a fan of how it looked to my eyes.

This again is in my basement with beige walls and total light control with no windows.

Another thing to consider is where I am going to mount it. From 15-17 feet away from the screen, it will be 2-3' behind my last row of seating. I have a fairly low ceiling and if I go with the BenQ, ceiling mount isnt an option as it would hang right into a path i need to walk through to get to another room - so a portable pedistle throwning the projector would be used.

If I went with the Optoma, I would not even use a projector mount but mount it DIY right to the ceiling (one shot hopefully as I havent thought about how Id do adjustments with this mounting method).

BenQ:

Pros:

-lens shift - this feature is not useful to me in my current mounting situation though
-Great colors
-Great contrast
-quiet operation
-costco's return policy
-great ISF menu

Cons:

-mounting - awkward spot, it would need to be on a movable post of some sort which I would move away once Im not watching movies.
-1 year warranty
-HDMI 1.0 and only 1 port

Optoma:

Pros:

-preferred mounting spot - right against the ceiling due to its 136% requirement.
-excellent contrast
-super "sharp" picture (some have compared it to HC5000)
-really bright
-canadas distributor is in my home town
-two year warranty
-more inputs, two 1.3 hdmi's

Cons:

-Future mounting spots if i move the theater will have to be well planned

**********************************

So, from any who can comment on one or the other or both - id appreciate it. Either sounds like a great machine in my budget (3-3.5K CDN). Obviously im going for the best picture possible (although on a budget screen for a couple months). Comment on anything you feel would sway me one direction or the other, sharpness, noise, bad rap with returns, customer service, contrast etc.

Sources - PS3, xbox360, HDTV, HTPC all through HDMI with Switcher

I appreciate the responses AVS members - you've helped me before.

I'd definately go for the BenQ, if you can spring for it. They use the same super-sharp optics as the 8720, so it'll be just as good, but probably better, than the Optoma. The best part, though, is that you can dial in the colors perfectly. The Optoma has oversaturation problems that can't be corrected, aka: neon greens and sunburnt faces.

The only problem with the w9000 is it only has a 1 year warranty....

thanks for the reply guys - keep em coming.

I can get the optoma for 2800 CDN and the benq for 3499 CDN as a price point. I COULD get the benq for about 150 less but it wouldnt have costco's nice return policy.

If you have an american express, they will double the warranty on any purchase.

when mounting these, is it better to mount near the front of the throw ratio or the farthest?

front = more lumens
farthest = more contrast ratio

Projectors with small zoom ranges will have less variation. For example, the BenQ has a 1:1.2 zoom ratio, so the variance probably won't even be detectable - even on test material, without a side-by-side.

ok guys thanks for the advice - i actually just went out and purchased the HD80. Got a great deal on it, got it lower than I listed.

The headquarters are right by me too. Even if the benq would nudge it out slightly in the PQ, I was thinking about it and I couldnt have a pedistle in the room so I pulled the trigger on this one.

Lets hope I wont regret my purchase.

So as far as mounting goes - its going to be a DIY mount.

I am getting a 100" screen.

I need the center of the lens 16'1" back from the screen for min zoom, so would I be safe so just put it 15'3/4" back from where I "Think" the screen face will be (as I dont have the screen yet and I dont know how far back it will sit in its mount so I have some leeway which I can toggle in with zoom?
So zoom does "hurt" pq though - thats good.

I think the centering and height of the screen are most important. Im just going to mount the projector as high as possible then adjust screen height when I get it...

Hows my reasoning on this?

I mounted my projector first, center of the room - 3.75" to account for the lens not being centred, I have it pretty close to flush on my open ceiling with a mount. Then I made sure it was true to the wall with the screen. Then I placed my screen.

worked out great...

:o) have a look at my HD80 Home theatre on a Budget thread for pics...

:o) Cheers.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=896806


ok guys thanks for the advice - i actually just went out and purchased the HD80. Got a great deal on it, got it lower than I listed.

The headquarters are right by me too. Even if the benq would nudge it out slightly in the PQ, I was thinking about it and I couldnt have a pedistle in the room so I pulled the trigger on this one.

Lets hope I wont regret my purchase.

So as far as mounting goes - its going to be a DIY mount.

I am getting a 100" screen.

I need the center of the lens 16'1" back from the screen for min zoom, so would I be safe so just put it 15'3/4" back from where I "Think" the screen face will be (as I dont have the screen yet and I dont know how far back it will sit in its mount so I have some leeway which I can toggle in with zoom?
So zoom does "hurt" pq though - thats good.

I think the centering and height of the screen are most important. Im just going to mount the projector as high as possible then adjust screen height when I get it...

Hows my reasoning on this?

awesome! thanks!
whered you grab your mount from? Although I think Ill just make a mount from 1/16" steel strips with M4's into the projector then toggle bolted to the 5/8" drywall at 4 locations. This is a very liight projector at 10 lbs.

The Optoma has oversaturation problems that can't be corrected, aka: neon greens and sunburnt faces.I think you are being a little over dramatic. You might try to say the first image is overblown but the second? This is even before the colors were calibrated. I'm interested is seeing the chart however since hardly anything is perfect even projectors that offer a complete CMS. Any links covering the HD80 oversaturation?

http://www.homeaudiovideoadvisor.com/external/avsforum/hdnet1.jpg

http://www.homeaudiovideoadvisor.com/external/avsforum/hdnet2.jpg

Nice screenshots indeed.

I think you are being a little over dramatic. You might try to say the first image is overblown but the second?

You should know better than to use screenshots to justify color decoding. The facts are that you need proper color decoding to get consistently high quality video. With poor quality color decoding, movies in which directors wanted more red in the face, will appear overly red and sunburnt faces. And, for movies in which directors wanted more green in the grass, it will appear as if the grass is glowing a neon green. It will turn an image that is borderline oversaturated into an ungainly oversaturated image.

This is even before the colors were calibrated. I'm interested is seeing the chart however since hardly anything is perfect even projectors that offer a complete CMS. Any links covering the HD80 oversaturation?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=883899

And no, gain/bias calibrations will not fix color decoder errors. It will only fix white/gray points, a single aspect of color correctness. Looks like I forgot about the undersaturated blues, which will make colors with high blue content appear dull and washed out.

Accurate color is one of those things that you don't know what you're missing until you've lived with it. And once you've lived with it, you'll wonder why you waited so long before you chose a color-correct display. Sort of like high quality audio at reference levels, I guess. Once I upgraded my sound system I was completely blown away, and upset at myself for putting it off for so long. Unfortunately, accurate color won't become mainstream until more people have spent time with an accurate display and silly color decoding will be reprimanded by a significant loss of sales. The real bad news is that this is almost a catch-22, if you will. At least the higher-end is catching on, with a CMS becoming a new feature on many projectors at $6k+. We can only hope it will trickle down to bargain basement companies like Optoma.

The facts are that you need proper color decoding to get consistently high quality video.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=883899Is that really your only basis? I'd said that is an idle rumor at best. I'm sure you can do better than that? Perhaps a professional review?

Accurate color is one of those things that you don't know what you're missing until you've lived with it. And once you've lived with it, you'll wonder why you waited so long before you chose a color-correct display.Thank you for enlightening me. However after using displays for over ten years that have been blessed by Ken Whitcomb I have seen some pretty colors.

I'm not saying the colors are right. Heck more than likely they are off to some degree. But calling them neon without any real reference serves no purpose at best.

To me it reeks of living in the forum world and being totally influenced by numbers. Try using the projector for a few weeks and let me know what YOU think versus someone’s opinion you happen to run across. Which I'm guessing never mentioned neon.

Is that really your only basis? I'd said that is an idle rumor at best. I'm sure you can do better than that? Perhaps a professional review?

I don't know how you can call a CIE chart an idle rumor... maybe you didn't click on the links to the images? :confused:

To me it reeks of living in the forum world and being totally influenced by numbers. Try using the projector for a few weeks and let me know what YOU think versus someone’s opinion you happen to run across. Which I'm guessing never mentioned neon.

I've lived with projectors whose color decoding was off just as much, and yes, the greens can appear to glow neon compared to a more color accurate display (depends on the director's intent, as I've mentioned).

I don't know how you can call a CIE chart an idle rumor... maybe you didn't click on the links to the images? :confused:).At the time you had your doubts...

Colors do seem to be very far off the mark - would require heck of a calibration to bring them back in line. I'll wait until some calibrated reviews come in before I look closer at this projector.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11190093#post11190093

Where are the calibrated reviews you were waiting for? Have you visited the ISF or Service menus? For me it's just plain silly to say any projector's colors are neon when you have nothing of real value to base your decision on. Which obviously you agreed with in your previous post.

Again I'm not defending its colors rather I just don't understand how you can judge them accurately and since I'm repeating myself I'll stop.

I'm not even saying they are correct but projectorcentral said...

"I want to restrain myself from using too many gushing superlatives. But it will be difficult, because the HD80 is simply a magnificent projector for the money. Excellent performance in contrast, black level, sharpness, and color combine to make it a riveting home theater experience."

"The official contrast rating for the HD80 is 10,000:1. You would think that this projector would be comparable in contrast to competing LCD units rated 10,000:1 or higher. It is not. It is quite visibly higher in actual contrast than all LCD competitors carrying the same or higher contrast ratings. With the higher contrast performance comes more three dimensionality, incrementally better color saturation, and the impression of a sharper image."

"On occasion we find projectors that represent a substantial leap forward in price performance, setting a new image quality standard for a given price range. The Optoma HD80 is one of these rare machines."

at least they looked at it before passing judgement.

Hey guys,

I have the projector somewhat "setup". (not even close to final though)

It is sitting on the floor on a plank of wood projecting a 120" screen on a light beige wall.

80% zoom.

Havent touched ANY setting other than switching between cinema and TV when I watched Discovery HD with the pot lights on. Totally acceptable. I think im probably selling the RCA and skipping having two tv's. Its that great.

I went out and bought:

300, Rocky Balboa, TMNT, Casino Royale, The Patriot, Ice Age, Pirates: Dead mans chest, Final Fantasy, Planet Earth, Swordfish, X3-last stand, swordfish Blu-rays for the PS3

Literally, I skipped through to what I thought were the good scenes of each and I really cant believe what Im seeing. I invited a couple buddies over and they were in disbelief at the resolution and the detail shown. They as I, had no idea the front projection experience could be this amazing. This is my first PJ.

To me, Contrast is amazing - tons of shadow detail. Very sharp Picture. I cant see pixels on the wall until I get VERY close. The unit sits about 6' from my ear. I can slightly hear it with the volume muted (fan noise or whatever). Very quiet. I could never imagine this bothering anybody.

I saw some pictures people took where skin tones looked kinda red on my monitor. Well - that just isnt the case in real life. Some of the pictures are pretty accurate about showing the amazing detail and the color you'll see (aka the girl in the water etc) but there just no "sunburnt" faces or anything. Probably just a couple peoples comments on the forums aided with a pic that gets over discussed and more warped each time another member passes on the information. The colors, they look great. They just jump out at you yet look very natural.

Very bright projector - to me, I can watch TV with pot lights on halfway in OTB cinema.

I currently have my macbook pro, ps3, cogeco HD Box hooked through Monoprice HDMI 5x1 and xbox360 hooked through crap component cables.

Ill tell you one thing - im only sitting back about 10-12 feet and i love it. Gaming almost made me sick its so big.

Pausing various movies at certain scenes I couldnt believe the OTB detail this projector had.

Highlights so far:

Gaming - wow

Every into for "blu-ray high definition" on each disk is stunning

TMNT - rain fight scene - best computer graphics ive ever seen full stop

Casino Royale - shots when he was driving while on the phone were very impressive. I tried to pause it on the same scenes I saw in some reviews.

Planet Earth - opening scene to every part where the sun fades into the picture. This really shows off the contrast. Stars and watching the terminator cross the face of the earth and detail appearing.

Pirates - Well, everything looked spectacular. Tier 0 no kidding.

Basically - if its a hobby to pick apart images or colors or whatever, im sure someone "could" find some flaws, but considering im projecting this on my light beige walls with white carpet and ceiling and im dumbfounded at the PQ, that has to be saying something as I imagine when I eventually upgrade to a proper screen, (still researching) and paint that wall onyx or something similar to get rid of reflected light off the current eggshell paint it will look even better - which I couldnt imagine.

I also spent some time at length looking at the panny 58" plasma and Id always pick this experience - even if it wasnt $3050CDN cheaper. Also reviewed the epson 1080, mitsu HD1000, the panny 1080p in person too - love this one by far.

as with all user reviews - a huge purchase like this of course has some "wow" factor for the buyer but rest assured - this is everything you read about.

A+ guys, thanks to ALL the positive AVS members in the Official HD80 thread for swaying me. As with the westinghouse LCD, this forum lead me to a blind purchase where I got way more than I was expecting.

On another note - to take advantage of Deep color Hdmi 1.3, I have 1.3 cables, a 1.3 source and a 1.3 display now, but will the blu-ray indicate "deep color" or any 1.3 specific features on the back of it?
Im assuming the color bits can only be as great as the trasnfer. Are current blu-rays 24bit or more?

BTW, Anyone seen the planet earth segment (great plains) where the wildabeast are getting attacked by crocodiles and it looks like 300? amazing colors.

At the time you had your doubts...

I understand your confusion surrounding my prior post. Since then I've learned that bias/gains cannot correct color decoding errors.

Where are the calibrated reviews you were waiting for?

More knowledge has replaced the need to have them. I was misinformed and had thought that bias/gain calibration can correct color decoding errors. I was curious about this, so I asked an ISF certified calibrator that works for a local dealer.

For me it's just plain silly to say any projector's colors are neon when you have nothing of real value to base your decision on.

I'm basing it on a CIE chart, found here (http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/hd80cie.jpg) (for others to see). The color points are off by a similar amount to a previous projector I owned, which had these problems. At the time, I asked (the same) ISF calibrator about it, and he said the problems were due to color decoding errors. I didn't know what it meant at the time (was about a year ago?), but this site is great for gathering more information on a wide variety of topics (love the dedicated theater section).

Which obviously you agreed with in your previous post.

Yes, but I am better informed, now. I have since learned that bias/gains cannot fix color decoding errors. They can only shift the white points (where the colors converge).

If the color decoder is off in a CIE chart, and the display doesn't have a CMS (the HD80 doesn't), you can't correct the primaries or secondaries. You then have an inaccurate color decoder. In the case of the errors shown in the CIE chart, I've seen similar errors in a previous projector. And, yes, you will see glowing greens and sunburnt faces (enough so that it bothers me - to each his own).

at least they looked at it before passing judgement.

I have a CIE chart, that's all I need. I assume Tom is competent enough to make decent measurements.

Hopefully we can put it to rest now. Cheers. :)

On another note - to take advantage of Deep color Hdmi 1.3, I have 1.3 cables, a 1.3 source and a 1.3 display now, but will the blu-ray indicate "deep color" or any 1.3 specific features on the back of it?
Im assuming the color bits can only be as great as the trasnfer. Are current blu-rays 24bit or more?

BTW, Anyone seen the planet earth segment (great plains) where the wildabeast are getting attacked by crocodiles and it looks like 300? amazing colors.


I've read that Blu Ray nor HD DVD can take advantage of Deep Color as it is not in their specs. So, that will be for the formats after Blu Ray or HD DVD. Are you using your PS3 at 1080p 24fps? That is the best signal to send to the HD80 as stated by the Projector Central Review.

Mike

I've read that Blu Ray nor HD DVD can take advantage of Deep Color as it is not in their specs. So, that will be for the formats after Blu Ray or HD DVD. Are you using your PS3 at 1080p 24fps? That is the best signal to send to the HD80 as stated by the Projector Central Review.

Mike

I havent personally "set" what blu-ray should play as.

It reads 1080p30Hz when I play them though

I guess its not getting 24hZ?

PS3 lets you pick 24Hz as the output.

ok guys thanks for the advice - i actually just went out and purchased the HD80. Got a great deal on it, got it lower than I listed.

The headquarters are right by me too. Even if the benq would nudge it out slightly in the PQ, I was thinking about it and I couldnt have a pedistle in the room so I pulled the trigger on this one.

Lets hope I wont regret my purchase.

So as far as mounting goes - its going to be a DIY mount.

I am getting a 100" screen.

I need the center of the lens 16'1" back from the screen for min zoom, so would I be safe so just put it 15'3/4" back from where I "Think" the screen face will be (as I dont have the screen yet and I dont know how far back it will sit in its mount so I have some leeway which I can toggle in with zoom?
So zoom does "hurt" pq though - thats good.

I think the centering and height of the screen are most important. Im just going to mount the projector as high as possible then adjust screen height when I get it...

Hows my reasoning on this?

TR,

Where did you wind-up buying your HD80.? I am kind of in the same situation as you were before you bought. I am leaning towards the HD80 too.

My room is 16L x 14W x 9H. I plan on using a Denon 3808 (or a Sherwood Newcastle 972 if it ever hits the streets). My screen will be 110". From Optoma's distance tool, it looks like I will need to be about 15 feet away which is not an issue.

If anyone has any other suggestions, please chime in.

Thx.