This latest moon of Saturn design is coming along.

Salient points why this could be the Prototype System of Tomorrow:

Dynaudio c4 controlled directivity speakers with heavy damping and corner traps behind screen. Controlled directivity gives you a Far Field monitor voicing (optimal for the two back rows).

SMX 171"wide variscreen 2.40 aspect ratio. Contrast enhancing,near unity gain, optically fitted/rotated? to projected pixel array to avoid moire. This was demanded to us by the Barco VAR based on some confidential gain comparison charts and metrics.

Barco DP1500 (CINERAMAX VERSION 5k.1 contrast ratio and 2,300 asni lumen at D65). All aperture plates and scatter light mods are done in the clean room facilities at Barco factory in Belgium - It features a Zoom Servo Lens, a WHOPPING 25-33% more ansi contrast than any Isco/Schneider application; I feel this will be the way of every Home Theater projector a decade from now and thereafter.

Thigpen Rotary subwoofer with manifold embedded in platform to vent directly under chairs. The main benefit of this technology is to give us sensory cues that we are experiencing reality, since we only hear these frequencies during our normal everyday activities and we are deprived of these familiar frequencies the moment we enter Home Theaters and other confined spaces.

AMX-Lutron control.

Some pictures:

http://cineramax.com/images/Architects-rendering-plan.jpg
Original layout co-developed with Zeb Jarosz, the finest residential architect in Miami.


http://cineramax.com/images/DP2000.jpg

World's most advanced Digital Cinema projector with custom features not otherwise available at any price.

http://cineramax.com/images/Helene-Front-Dimensioning.jpg
Screen layout with sightlines.

http://cineramax.com/images/Installing-_Projector-_Exha.jpg
Our Popeye rotohammering a 4" hole through a 16" tie beam to install projector exhaust system for Barco DP1500.

http://cineramax.com/images/HC_Barco-Dp1500_Hotair_-exh.jpg

Projector nest shows exhaust fan system for 13k btu.

http://cineramax.com/images/RackBackLocationandRotosubL.jpg

Back of Rack is accessible as well as providing the necessary location for rotary sub below.

http://cineramax.com/images/CIneramax2_andCineramax3_In.jpg
The true owners of CINERAMAX LLC installing the 10 step lights.

http://cineramax.com/images/Viewing_Platform.jpg
Preconstruction is almost complete.

http://cineramax.com/images/Helene_Platform_finished.jpg
Manifold exhaust for the second row - infrasonic fan system.

http://cineramax.com/images/Projection_porthole.jpg
Projection port is off center to accomodate lens position and projectionist peek area.

My critics here through the years have claimed that I have been much talk and no substance, perhaps they spoke too soon. The prototype system of tomorrow is coming soon...

http://cineramax.com/images/Equitech_3kw_balanced-trans.jpg

3kw balanced transformer just for projector.

http://cineramax.com/images/Cineramax3_secures_stepligh.jpg

Installing step lights

http://cineramax.com/images/NewPlanSub.jpg
TRW 17 manifold.

http://cineramax.com/images/Rorary_Sub_Rear_out.jpg
Rear row manifold out.

Pardon, but I was more interested in the guy with the tatoo on his arm of somebody passed out while drinking suds??
Better double check his work.

Looks very cool ! I think though you need to quote Ren and Stimpy and say that this is the theater of next week rather than just tomorrow.;):D


Art

Peter,

Great seeing you at CEDIA! Did you make it over to the suite with your client for a demo? I'm curious to hear your opinions on the system. PM me with a number so we can talk, I think there's an opportunity here that's being overlooked.

Dan

Pardon, but I was more interested in the guy with the tatoo on his arm of somebody passed out while drinking suds??
Better double check his work.


The guy did not pass out, it's a zombie, and he has an electric guitar traversing his head (hence the brains on the floor), there is another Zombie playing the guitar and an Atomic mushroom cloud as the backdrop.:D

Peter,

Great seeing you at CEDIA! Did you make it over to the suite with your client for a demo? I'm curious to hear your opinions on the system. PM me with a number so we can talk, I think there's an opportunity here that's being overlooked.

Dan

Yes Dan great meeting you. The demo went well at the very end. We will see.

http://cineramax.com/images/BarcoNest.jpg

Future removable grille for Thigpen Rotary Sub Function as well as lamp change and initital setup. Projector is controlled via 2 IP adresses 1 Ti chip and 1 Barco chip.

You can see 240v Balanced outlet on right and 120v exhaust fan outlet on left.

http://cineramax.com/images/Barco-dp1500.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/BarcoNestLeft.jpg
Filter is exchanged on front left, projector simulated.

http://cineramax.com/images/screenwidth.jpg

171 inch wide x 72 high (see 6' teenager in middle)

Looks very cool ! I think though you need to quote Ren and Stimpy and say that this is the theater of next week rather than just tomorrow.;):D


Art

Thanks Art.

Peter, please do post more pictures as the project moves forward. Great to see bleeding edge systems in progress. What reference AV processor will be used?

Thanks. Will try, new Tact (maybe).

Bruce this is the picture you requested.

http://cineramax.com/images/Manifold_Underneath.jpg

Bruce will be installing the rotary subwoofer himself.

Nice, but "prototype system of tomorrow"? Oooookay........

Most impressive indeed.
I just have one small comment on the first row steps and the 2nd row on left side. I would have extended them to the back of the chairs like the curved on on the right, second row, so that no one could possibly step off 2 steps unexpectedly. Maybe it is still correctable?

do you think you can fit 4 chairs across comfortably?

The second row was cut to 114" like the front (centered). The bullnoses/steps on the left was cut by 10" and about 4" on the right.

Thanks Charles, I do not quite grasp your question/suggestion, please re-explain.

Very impressive, it looks like a lot of fun.

Peter sitting 14 feet back from a 170 inch screen ...with a DLP projector or any projector for that matter is to close IMO. Is that proper seating? I like to watch the whole movie screen not just a big center. It seems everyone is going larger and larger screen size and thats great if you have the room length. Bigger isn't always better....don't go there:eek:

thanks Joey

Peter sitting 14 feet back from a 170 inch screen ...with a DLP projector or any projector for that matter is to close IMO. Is that proper seating? I like to watch the whole movie screen not just a big center. It seems everyone is going larger and larger screen size and thats great if you have the room length. Bigger isn't always better....don't go there:eek:

thanks Joey


I generally agree with that statement , I see it as overflow seating primarily for children (who like it that way). Keep in mind 16 x 9 and 3x4 will be narrower. In any event the reson the risers are the maximum allowed by code 7.75 is to elevate the target audience (rows 2 and 3) to the correct plane.

The front row is essentially in an early reflection absorption pit.

I realize that the sub & it's install cost alone (nice to have Peter nearby) puts this system in the over 20k territory. Can you give us a ballpark on what this system will cost?

I totally understand if you choose to keep this private.

I totally understand if you choose to keep this private.

;) a song.

d-box? Is this the one with the game chair setup?

No that would be Prometheus, summer 2008.

http://cineramax.com/images/Prometheus_Site.jpg

Looks like an amazing system but you need to pickup one of these:
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=6537101

No I am waiting for the wide angle panny (NO MORE SUCH COMMENTS Please).

The guy did not pass out, it's a zombie, and he has an electric guitar traversing his head (hence the brains on the floor), there is another Zombie playing the guitar and an Atomic mushroom cloud as the backdrop.:D

Oh, OK, I feel a lot better now.

The second row was cut to 114" like the front (centered). The bullnoses/steps on the left was cut by 10" and about 4" on the right.

Thanks Charles, I do not quite grasp your question/suggestion, please re-explain.

The drawing shows the curved step, second row right side, running into the seat back.

http://cineramax.com/images/Architects-rendering-plan.jpgLayout

The front row sides and 2nd row left side do not, so you have a drop of 12" close to the chairs. On the left front row, you see 28'-2" on the drawing. The step ends right there; same at the 3 locations I tried to describe. That is where you have a 12" drop and the back sides of the chairs. Someone stepping down walking close to the chairs might step 12" instead of 6". The space is not large but the drawing shows more than for the curved section and may be big enough for someone to fall? A small chance?
Not sure how better to explain it.

The above drawing is an architects initial rendering, the seats used from 1st Impressions can accomodate a 21" step (and still be only an inch away butt up to it), the space among the steps is 114" and we have 113.5" for the chairs (ganged 4) total. So there is no room for a broken angle. Good point though, we discussed this earlier in the process with the chair manufacturer.

http://cineramax.com/images/REVISED_STEP.jpg

Revised Step.

4 of these general type of chairs (but authentically dressed up by www.austinharrelson.com) will occupy literally every inch, so as to eliminate the possibility of foot damage.

http://cineloungers.com/cineloungers/J1.jpg

Peter

Looks like this will be a powerhouse of a theater. Exciting, keep us updated!

Thanks Alan, it may be if I don't forget to take my HBP medication. ;)

Peter,

Which control system are you going to use?

http://cineramax.com/images/AMX-Network.jpg

No longer using Vista Media Center as a source to the XBox elites (too unstable and Amirm did not respond my PM's). It will be something else TBD.

http://cineramax.com/images/HeleneRack.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/MVP-8400_SVGA.jpg

The touchscreen is craddled in a motorized wall charging station.

http://www.amx.com//assets/logosAndPhotos/MVP-WDS%20(front%20angle).png

Sorry for drooling on your thread awesome

No longer using Vista Media Center as a source to the XBox elites (too unstable). It will be something else TBD.

Peter

I am not the least bit surprised..

At least I got something out of the VistaMC multi-room aborted development effort.

The Virtual art gallery was compiled, cleaned up, weeded out most Church art, and color corrected it for best most photorealistic presentation possible in a houseful of Fujitsu plasmavision sets.

http://cineramax.com/images/BoticelliSelection.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Boticelli.jpg

Having the slide show with music in the remote zones is a must for whatever server system we end up implementing.

http://cineramax.com/images/SMXHelene.jpg

:DMax, I am impressed!!!@@@

So impressed I decided to Google you.

Look what I found:

http://manchester.flirtbox.co.uk/dating/cineramax.html

Is that your son or an Imposter?:D

Must be a rabid videophile. Imposter.

Well the powers that wannabee in control of the home theater industry in Miami, are at it again. I have been hacked. I knew this thread was making them uncomfortable when their Loss Prevention VP was caught redhanded by me last week impersonating a realtor and taking pictures inside my Media center/color correcting lab, with her NEXTEL phone camera.

I guess I won't be posting pictures for a while. All I have to say to these unscrupulous power mongers is... ... at least Popeye above doesn't drill through condominium penthouse tensioning wires...

Well the powers that wannabee in control of the home theater industry in Miami, are at it again. I have been hacked. I knew this thread was making them uncomfortable when their Loss Prevention VP was caught redhanded by me last week impersonating a realtor and taking pictures inside my Media center/color correcting lab, with her NEXTEL phone camera.

I guess I won't be posting pictures for a while. All I have to say to these unscrupulous power mongers is... ... at least Popeye above doesn't drill through condominium penthouse tensioning wires...

Come on, Max. That's an excuse. We know that you're taking some time off to troll the dating forums@

Oy Vay. Was Jeff Hoover right behind?

Peter:

Looks fantastic, 2 questions, what seating position from the front of the screen would you consider to be the best in the house, and what is the depth between the front wall and the screen where you have the speakers?

Thanks

Well the powers that wannabee in control of the home theater industry in Miami, are at it again. I have been hacked. I knew this thread was making them uncomfortable when their Loss Prevention VP was caught redhanded by me last week impersonating a realtor and taking pictures inside my Media center/color correcting lab, with her NEXTEL phone camera.

I guess I won't be posting pictures for a while. All I have to say to these unscrupulous power mongers is... ... at least Popeye above doesn't drill through condominium penthouse tensioning wires...

Delusions of grandeur + paranoia is always a fun combination for spectating :D

Delusions of grandeur + paranoia is always a fun combination for spectating :D

YEAH IMAGINE WHEN THE TRW 17 KICKS IN THE 7 HZ 130 DBL...

Do you have the proper fire exits for such a panic? ;)

Peter:

Looks fantastic, 2 questions, what seating position from the front of the screen would you consider to be the best in the house, and what is the depth between the front wall and the screen where you have the speakers?

Thanks

Hi Lon, that is quite comlimentary thanks.

I would say the middle row first last row second. The stage is only 22 deep.

I have been hacked. I knew this thread was making them uncomfortable when their Loss Prevention VP was caught redhanded by me last week impersonating a realtor and taking pictures inside my Media center/color correcting lab, with her NEXTEL phone camera.
...


I keep telling you, don't out the enemy, you sleep with them...:p

Hey she's very pretty that gal...

Hi Lon, that is quite comlimentary thanks.

I would say the middle row first last row second. The stage is only 22 deep.


I assume 22"?

If you only put one seat in the room where would you put it?

A picture of what the hack looked like (imagine 25 minutes of this scrolling).

A picture of the teak grille fro the rotary sub backvent into the bathroom.

I assume 22"?

If you only put one seat in the room where would you put it?

EDITED 10/25
Actually it was 27" but we cut the bullnose and lip out to 24" in order to
gain 3" of T.D. (we are moving the PJ Back 6" to gain a total of 9" ) with 28' TD
focus is optimized, removed from the edge of the lens range.

In front of the third row.

I must say that it looks very nice.

Hey she's very pretty that gal...

My point exactly! :D

http://cineramax.com/images/Cineramax3_secures_stepligh.jpg

Because the actual tolerances of the steps' bullnoses vary, some bullnoses had to be pulled out.

This small discrepancy in the step lights siting conditions is the second challenge we encounter with the lights.

The first challenge was the LED strip lights. They only can be cut in so many inches, while they do come in LV and 120v, the 120v options for precut sizes were few and of totally odd cuttable distances (14" or 42" but not the 30" we necessitated.

Someone suggested a Fixture light and I did not object to an angled down frosted glass black 4.5x8.5 design which still goes along to the somewhat Bauhauss/deco theme.

If you do the electrical connection and then screw the fixture to the wood, you will have a problem re-aligning the screwholes (into the side plywood) once the carpet goes in. To cut to the chase this is the way to go:

Cut hole and make sure fixture wil fit in aligned and levelled, then put fixture away.

Install carpet except where the bullnoses have been removed, leave the carpet "tongue" that goes over the bullnose loose pending final step, cutout carpet over fixture holes, do electrical connection, drill side holes on fixtures , secure fixtures, install bulbs, test lights, install covers, reattach bullnoses and secure carpeting over bullnose.

Hardly the 8 manhour job originally guestimated.

Here are some progress pictures. Also shown is a glimpse of the Palladian architectural style, the theater entrance, and detail of the custom cutout in the crown mouliding for architectuural speakers.

http://cineramax.com/images/Library_Cinema_Entrance.jpg

The ceiling paint is Sherwin Williams Cyberspace SW 7076 in a flat latex finish.

Shot of the theater from Bathroom door, upgraded image of Mech/projection room, and another shot of the Rotary Subwoofer Teak Grille (the same used in Pat Rileys meridian 7.1 octogon room for speaker grilles in 1996).

http://cineramax.com/images/Ceiling_Painted.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Mech_Projection_Room.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Teak_Grill.jpg

Well most of it...

http://cineramax.com/images/Helene-Acoustic1.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Helene-Acoustic2.jpghttp://cineramax.com/images/Helene-Acoustic3.jpg

Just as I remembered it, the built quality of the rack creams the flimsy and coarse fit and finish of the Middle Atlantic offerings.

As I said before it is time to stop the Middle Atlantic madness.

You can see some of the detail here.

I am actually considering a swap on the front door, when I first saw this rack it had a full plexi door, but the door stuck forward of the rack by 2.5" and had louvers on the sides (visible only from the side of the rack). The door we recived has venting on the side (front fascia).

You can see where the rails are clearly marked for rack space notch numbers, the locking side panels, and the perforated back for ventilation and to keep EMI and RFI out.

http://cineramax.com/images/Wrightline_Helene-Detail.jpg

We had requested a custom opening on top/rear for wire bundle insertion point. It could not have been more professionally executed.

http://cineramax.com/images/Wrightline_Helene-Front.jpghttp://cineramax.com/images/Wrightline_Helene-Sited.jpg

And a simulation.

http://cineramax.com/images/Wrightline_Helene-Rack.jpg

Another point about the fit and finish is the door handle it has a very rugged but comfortable feeling, like it was filled with lead and then skinned with a ruberised leather like compound.

I had not realised the feet came off and that the unit is bolted to the rack from the rear. Hope it looks good finished.

http://cineramax.com/images/MLRackshelf.JPG

So said Morbius (the original).

I have returned from Showeast equally impressed with my new found love, the Barco DP 1500.

I have much to talk about, it's thick, but "tres cool".

First some pics.

http://cineramax.com/images/Showeast-Barco-001.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Showeast-Barco-004.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Showeast-Barco-005.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Showeast-Barco-006.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Showeast-Barco-009.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Showeast-Barco-010.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Showeast-Barco-011.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Showeast-Barco-012.jpg


Odyssey time to sell the old Barco these things are totally Rad, and a tweaker's dream (albeit a deep pockets one).

There are four levels: Digital Cinema Spec.(2k-1cr), Post -Production spec.(3k-1 cr.), Post-Production spec. with HC lens (3.3k-1 cr.), and Regent Videophile Grade (5.3-.5K-1 cr.) (the CINERAMAX) :D. Maybe.

All specs will be at D65 (@8nm wavelength precision). These models and the desired application parameters are being looked at in ZEMAX: http://www.zemax.com/

This Barco scaler is impressive.

http://cineramax.com/images/acs-2048-User_Guide.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/acs-2048-Menu.jpg

Totally new control suite compared to a Snell & wilcox.

Brightness and contrast for each RGB channel.

Finally a sync slect will permit global master clock with Rubidium accuracy to all audio and video components.

One could use Antelope audio's piece below.
http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/images/ocx_v_b.jpg

Then overlay an atomic clock on top.

http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/images/10M_fbk.jpg

Or the Teac G-0 Rb...

I have to give this some thought but the potential is tantalizing.

Can you slave all the video processors in the chain?

The way it could work is like this:

Rubidium atomic clock keeps sync precision on the global a/v clock. HD DVD/BR player or DirecTVDVR are the Master, hdmi goes to the scaler, composite video (sync signal) goes to the global master clock, from the global master clock you feed surround processor and dacs in the audio chain the correct khz frquency and you feed the correct synchronised SMPTE code to the scaler's synch input.

Theoretically it should work the problem is having to change the audio frequencies, which is always manually.

http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/images/10M_fbk.jpg

Way too much writing on the front but otherwise a beautiful job of industrial design.

I am double checking the dimensioning of the projection nest.

Here is a simulation of the 2.67 aspect ratio. The masking only allows for 2.40 though.

http://cineramax.com/images/Helene-P-Sim.jpg

Here is the rotary subwoofer back venting Grille from the PJ nest.

http://cineramax.com/images/Helene-P-Nest_Grille.jpg

And here is the entire PJ nest area looking in from the porthole.

http://cineramax.com/images/Helene-P-Nest_Rear.jpg

Pending receipt of a Architectural drawing for the projector it is hard to double check if the image will hit the lip of the bunker porthole due to the down angle.

The projector legs can go up by about 4 inches, but we are cutting it close.

http://cineramax.com/images/Helene-DP1500_lens_clear.jpg

The platform surface shall be covered with ESD Electrosatic Dissipative Pirelli rubber flooring:

http://www.rubberfloors.com/galaxy/z550.jpghttp://www.rubberfloors.com/galaxy/z557.jpghttp://www.rubberfloors.com/galaxy/z556.jpg

This line of rubber flooring products allows a very high degree of protection against the damage of electro-static buildup and electro-static discharge (ESD) in environments where attention to this problem is of primary importance.
Very resilient for comfort and anti-fatigue effect.
Easy to maintain (waxing not necessary).
Very high abrasion resistance.
10 YEAR WEAR WARRANTY
Sound absorbent.
Slip resistant.
Resistant to oils, grease and chemicals.
LIFETIME DISSIPATION WARRANTY
Available in rolls and tiles

Initially the projector will be installed with 3,000 to 1 contrast ratio (post production reference) instead of the DCI spec. 2,000-1. There are two more plateaus of contrast that I envision going after, Post Production with HC lens (3,300-1cr.), and finally the Regent Videophile level (5,300-1 cr.). The higher the contrast the hotter the engine will run (energy either converts to heat or light).

We presently have a 4" exhaust only capable of 170 cfm, that's borderline for digital cinema spec, not enough for Post production. With this expansion to the air handling system I envision limitless potential (450+ CFM).

http://cineramax.com/images/Air-Handling.jpg

Thanks for sharing this with us. It seems to be quite the project. Can't wait for the finished product. Excellent work so far! :cool:

Good luck and keep posting pictures.

We went to see the finished chairs at 1st impressions, I did not bring my camera but seen from the front it is reminiscent of a 1st class section of a 747. Or having so many chairs reminded me of "When Worlds Collide".
http://cineramax.com/images/worlds-collide.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Cineloungers.jpg

Not the most ansi friendly color but the interior designer's wish was accomodated.

It's a camel colored suede.

:D
http://cineramax.com/images/Kamaar,Tenesia,Notoya&Pasha.jpg
;););)

Very impressive Peter!

Hard to argue with that install. Looks like AV nirvana achieved! Couldn't think of another thing to place in that equipment chain that could be better. Your illustrations are always the best.

Keep the updates coming,

Edward

Thanks Edward.

My suspicions were confirmed( after receiving the confidential !? projector shop drawings) the projection platform has to go up by 1.5 inches (2 x 3/4").

http://cineramax.com/images/Architects-rendering.jpg

The Architect wanted to use a frosted glass pane on the Iron Gate used as Mech/Projection room entranceway.

http://cineramax.com/images/Hel_MechRoom_Door.jpghttp://cineramax.com/images/Helene_Light_leak.jpg

The light leakage from it would be too much. A non translucent backing is now being considered. I still have a light leak from the Bathroom through the Teak Grille.

The Rotary Subwoofer Backwave Teak Grille was going to get a white nylon weave speaker cloth stapled to the back. I think I will double it up, white on the bathroom side, black on the projector side.

I may make another black woven nylon aplique for the inside of the rear rack door to tone down the light leakage. That's now 3 nylon fabric panes. I'll ask Ruben from SMX to make them.

That leaves me on the subject of what color(s) to paint the walls ceiling of the mechroom. I had thought of a clean room type battleship grey, but this scatter light issue has me wondering. I do want the theater to have a 7k to 1 On/off light dynamic range, in case I can squeeze that much out of the Barco.:D

Very impressive architecture there!

Is that a construction in South Florida? (Did I mention I'm looking for an internship? :p)

Cracky,

Happy Thanksgiving.

CINERAMAX LLC is not an installation company, we are more of an enabling "think tank". If however you agree to sign NDA and Conflict of Interest attestments, I may be able to let you in with Bruce Thigpen's permission when he flies in to do his rotary sub thing. I'll even let you try your early reflections software, not that I care so much as to moving or covering with fabric the main entrance doors.
:)

This is not a screenshot of the scene after the gunfight in OK Corral. The three crates signify the arrival of the C4's.

http://cineramax.com/images/HelDyn_Crates.jpg

CONTROLLED DIRECTIVITY and the dual Esotars guarantees exceptional performance in my DESIGN KILLING ZONE (Mid-Far Field)

http://cineramax.com/images/Heldyn_c4.jpg


I promise the old Kodak will be replaced after Black Friday with a new 28mm.
http://cineramax.com/images/Heldyn_c4_side.jpg

I am reserving the shot of the front stage for the new camera.

http://cineramax.com/images/Heldyn_screen_boundary.jpg

This is the distance to the unfinished floor. This boundary measurement marks the position of the bottom of the screen so as to clear the framing.

The 16 x 9 image will be exactly 127 inches wide to the extremes of the L + R speaker cones. The image height is 72"

Peter are you using smx new masking to go with there screen.

Affirmative John. Like so (already shown):
http://cineramax.com/images/SMXHelene.jpg


http://cineramax.com/images/ContourSR.jpg
Due to proximity to the viewing area sweet spot and to be able to have a wall hung speaker I chose 4 Contour SR's in black laquer finish. Here they are positioned where the latest architectural call for (72" inches high from rear platform), I am want to move them up 15" (in line with the top of the rack). The bass bellow 90HZ belonging to the surround channels gets mixed down to the sub channel.

http://cineramax.com/images/Heldyn_rearSR.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Helrack_Empty.jpg

The Rack door was reversed to lay flat against the wall.

I want to be able to send the projector 1080p24 so for that we will put in a new Panny BR and Onkyo HD DVD player.

http://cineramax.com/images/dvhd805_front_300.jpg

Due to delays from Tact Audio, I will hedge the bets and put in (on a loaner) an Onkyo Professional pre pro to handle the new advanced codecs. This simplifies a bunch of HDMI issues as well.

http://cineramax.com/images/OnkyoPrepro.jpg

We will see how good it sounds afterwards. I suspect it will sound as good as HDMI gets cause they all use the same electronics.

With most of the components being IP controllable there is no need for such a huge AMX controller.This clears up 2ru.

http://cineramax.com/images/NI-3101-SIG-Front.png

http://cineramax.com/images/NI-3101-SIG-Rear.png

Still we will need to relegate equipment to a secondary rack in the rear mech room.

But the main rack is looking good:
http://cineramax.com/images/Helene_Rack.jpg

Before the Kscape investors and fanboys start yelling fowl play, HUSH!

This facility is a research facility for the largest publicly owned TV, radio, concert, & film production Hispanic media conglomerate, the purpose of the post-production reference screening room (in addition to entertaining the likes of Ricky Martin, Shakira, etc.) and multiroom systems is for the chairman to access all his content which is propietary to his enterprise. For this application we selected a 13 terabyte AXONIX MEDIA MAX system with built in hd dvd reader in the server (for 2x times faster load times), a 25 disc DVD/cd bulkloader to load all the Radio and TV station relevant archives.


It rocks! Great support, very well thought out, and it works. The HDMI connection handshakes with the displays and I would rate the Picture q. as good as the best HTPC. I also enjoyed not being talked down to by pompous media server companies.

Here is last weeks intended network scenario with room clients in different zones that represent varied equipment configurations (that a typical TV and HD Radio audiences' home could have).

Of very high cool factor is the need for three separate static IP addresses just for Barco, The scaler, The Barco portion of the projector (lens,dowser, lamp power etc.), The TI engine itself (dmd temperature etc).

http://cineramax.com/images/hELENE_nETWORK.jpgMORE LATER<<< This cannot work as one cannot have more than one MAC address in comcast internet, per home. [To complicate manners more the house telephone is a cisco VOIP system, as it turns out it is THE CISCO ROUTER being supplied by the phone guys that will act as the gateway to the entire helene a/v/control system through custom programming of the avc subnet's dedicated ip adresses] It is not the multiroom of yesteryear. One needs an enterprise class IT administartor to set this up correctly.

http://cineramax.com/images/HeleneGearMbSpaNEW.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/HelDyn_Arch.jpg

I have had a crash course on the ergomics of content loading. I can tell you that it is not something to just slap together.

You want to load media from the theater, hence the server with HD drive and a client with BR Drive are in the main rack. But there is a monitor , keyboard and mouse, in addition of a bulk loader that needs to be connected to the server. In addition the room client also has a wireless keyboard with mouse.

http://cineramax.com/images/helax_autoloader.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/helax_system.jpg

It has been a bit unweildly in my labs close quarters... :)

I decided to put the thinking cap on and have come up with this dual aceess point solution.

In the rack I will incorporate a 1RU slide in and out keyboard pointer screen system.

http://cineramax.com/images/slide-screen.jpg

This one is even better as the dual slider permits leaving just the monitor out. And it comes with a toucscreen option ideal for the Barco projecotr communicator software.
http://cineramax.com/images/Slide-Monitor.jpg

http://www.barco.com/projection_systems/images/CommunicatorTouchPanel_L.jpg

These slide in command centers include a Keyboard_Mouse and Monitor selector switch to access the server, the room client's secondary screen thus doing away with the cumbersome wireless board for the room client, and to possibly preview some vga source as well.

http://cineramax.com/images/Mechroom_Rack.jpghttp://cineramax.com/images/Mechroom_Rack_TTop.jpg

THIS IS AN UNRELATED imageof Bruce Thigpens Rotary sub eqing controller.

http://cineramax.com/images/eqamptrw.jpg

And these are the 5" touchscreens which I feel would be more useful to control the multroom AMX system sthan the previously planned R4 Zigbee remotes.

http://cineramax.com/images/MVP-5200i.png

http://cineramax.com/images/MVP-5200i-KS.png

I have just received a mixed signal re reliability of the AMX zigbee stuff, so I am now reconsidering. We will see.

This is the original plan (previously posted):

http://cineramax.com/images/AMX-Network.jpg

With completion slated for Jn-Feb, these last minute decisionsare tough but necessary.

battle on Peter :)

battle on Peter :)

One needs a bit of a masochistic streak to want to go through this effort.

Here is a close up on the rack:

http://cineramax.com/images/Helene_Rack_LG.jpg

I bet by the time the rackshelves go in there wont be any space for the fan vent at the bottom.

And now The architect & designer are doing some fancy millwork casing around the acoustical panels to tie in visually with the rest of the house (part White House part Versailles), including a door covering the rack, which acted as the return air grille for the room, that and what leaks in under the seats through the rotary sub manifold. There is no return air grille per se.

I have to convince him now to do something like this:

http://cineramax.com/images/RackAirIntake.jpg

We went to see the finished chairs at 1st impressions, I did not bring my camera but seen from the front it is reminiscent of a 1st class section of a 747. Or having so many chairs reminded me of "When Worlds Collide".
http://cineramax.com/images/worlds-collide.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Cineloungers.jpg

Not the most ansi friendly color but the interior designer's wish was accomodated.

It's a camel colored suede.

Hey Peter,
I can't tell if that is real suede or a good ultrasuede. It looks like real suede, though. If it is, then I would tell them to try something else if this is going to get a lot of use. Cleaning and caring for real suede is a PITA. The only caveat is if the cushions are removeable. If you can take the covers off, then washing in a front load washing machine is a good option. Don't spread this info to freely, as I am still doing work down there.:) If it is ultrasuede, then it should be easy to clean.

Also, if you need some computer help, then give AVS's Brian Feldman a call. He is up in Hallandale. Alan should be able vouch for him.

Thanks for the pointer Eric. I did ask, will let you know. You left Miami as I was forced to move back into the cauldron. I will miss living in Dixie. Only in Dixie can you date three sisters one after the other.;)

Do not make the mistake of unboxing the Axonix Mediamax Raid unit with flip flops. This one is a TOE BREAKER!

27" inches deep, I had to rush to the jobsite to see how the rack was going to like it.

http://cineramax.com/images/AxoHel-5.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/AxoHel-6.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/AxoHel-7.jpg

Areas in pink on the floorplan are new millwork protrusions.
http://cineramax.com/images/HEL-CIN-PLAN.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/HEL-CIN-backwall.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/HEL-CIN-leftwall.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/HEL-CIN-rightwall.jpg

Cracky,

Happy Thanksgiving.

CINERAMAX LLC is not an installation company, we are more of an enabling "think tank". If however you agree to sign NDA and Conflict of Interest attestments, I may be able to let you in with Bruce Thigpen's permission when he flies in to do his rotary sub thing. I'll even let you try your early reflections software, not that I care so much as to moving or covering with fabric the main entrance doors.
:)

I hope you had a good Thanksgiving as well.

As long as there's no hazing ceremony or obstacle course to complete, I'm fine with doing some paperwork :D And I did not make the early reflections software, just enjoyed it enough to put the link there.

By the way, the equipment so far looks spectacular, especially that monster Barco!

http://cineramax.com/images/Helene_RackPC.jpg

Simulated content loading.

Peter, can you provide more info on the bulk auto-loader and SW used to rip the CDs and DVDs? Did the Mediamax have the appropriate drivers and software for the auto-loader drive or did you use a 3rd party solution?

Hi Greg,

I have not hooked it up yet. It came with a disk power supply and usb cable as well as a disk receiver tray.

I will let you know how it works. I relocated the test/development server to the closet.

http://cineramax.com/images/Server_in_closet.jpg

Media Loading simulated.

ACRONOVA DUPLIQ USB

http://www.acronova.com/graphic/pix_front2.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/adynhel1.jpg

Hey Ruben we need more cotton panels...

http://cineramax.com/images/adynhel6.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/adynhel5.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/adynhel2.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/adynhel3.jpg

Ok the surround speakers are going back up 80" to the bottom, instead of 72" to the top as the drawing was calling.

http://cineramax.com/images/Latest_Side-Elevation.jpg

Somehow the cad guy is having a hardtime grasping the TORUS concept.

In an ever escalating ANSI CR quest this should be the mother of all ANSI.

http://cineramax.com/images/adynhel4.jpghttp://cineramax.com/images/Heldyn_c4.jpg

Is it Helene that has the Thigpen Rotary sub ?

Art

The rack in the mechroom is now this one from Omnimount.
http://cineramax.com/images/omnimount-rsf.jpg

And this is the HP RACK LCD KEYBOARD.

http://cineramax.com/images/HP-RackLCD.jpg

Is it Helene that has the Thigpen Rotary sub ?

Art

Yes shooting under the seats. Hope they keep some prep H arround the house.:D

FINALLY I FIND A CAMERA THAT CAN DO THIS...

http://cineramax.com/images/adynhel7.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Helside.jpg

I know the TRW will be reproducing the Infrasonic content, will there be a subwoofer(s) to fill in the space between the mains and the TRW? If so, where do you plan on placing them?

Hi Greg,

I have not hooked it up yet. It came with a disk power supply and usb cable as well as a disk receiver tray. Yesterday I found the oEM thoruogh google but I can't find it now.

I will let you know how it works. I relocated the test/development server to the closet.

http://cineramax.com/images/Server_in_closet.jpg

Media Loading simulated.

That autoloader would be really freakin' sweet if it could just load dvds with its own drivers with anydvd running in the background...

I know the TRW will be reproducing the Infrasonic content, will there be a subwoofer(s) to fill in the space between the mains and the TRW? If so, where do you plan on placing them?

Yes there are two JL audio Fathom 113's going in up front slightly sideways' unequidistant (that's a tongue twister).

I am sure there are no complains there, right?

Great news... but I can't post them. At this point I can only say one thing to anyone considering a Sim 5000 or RuncoVX-44/55.

http://cineramax.com/images/Projektorenskrieg.jpg :D (That is my third ,final and yet most earnest redundant post).

Yes there are two JL audio Fathom 113's going in up front slightly sideways' unequidistant (that's a tongue twister).

I am sure there are no complains there, right?

Those JL's are great subs with excellent build quality but personally I am more of a bang for the buck type of guy :p

Is the DBox going in the Helene system?

no.

Wow, the Nazis had tanks that were made by Barco?

LOL!

Let's clarify the humorous montage follows my post analyzing the Industrial design of the Barco.

http://cineramax.com/images/Tiger2DP1500.jpg

I compare it to the tiger 2 mega tank of ww2. Interestingly 13 of these were abandoned in Belgium in the Ardeness forrest not too far from Kuurne where Barco's are made.

The scene depicted above is from the Hollywood made film The Battle of the Bulge, one of my favorite 3 HD DVD's.

[POLITICAL DISCLAIMER: My Granfather had an interesting link to the White House during WW2, of which I am very proud. Having Graduated in 1904 from Harvard with FDR, he was able to obtain insider information to preempt Germany's declaration of War to the US by 48 hours with the Cuban Declaration of war to Nazi Germany (largely symbolic and for oneupsmanship, yet a few U-Boats were sunk). In addition the same contact was used to get a Checkoslovakian family of 8 (Pilsner Master Brewers) out of a cruiseship that was denied entry into Havana port(see movie SHIP OF FOOLS),several vessels were returned to Nazi Germany for final destination in Poland. Hey the list was shorter than Schindler's, but life is life. Therefore I come from a family that fights opression and tiranny in every shape way of form, therefore my admiration for the movie Battle of the Bulge, and my respect for German Engineering at it's best are well reconciled with my political views]. There.

Kind of an eerie resemblance there! Looks like it's built like a tank. :)

The projectors are designed by a chick no less. I am sure she went to one of the museums where the T2 is shown and got inspired.

I say it is fitting becacuse with the MIT/Cineramax DP1500 offensive we are definetley going to make a Bulge in the underperforming supposedly high end market. This time however we fully expect to lick the competion.

Awesome stuff, for sure. Now tell me where I can get a job that pays enough that it'll allow me to afford this!

:D

CJ

The projectors are designed by a chick no less. I am sure she went to one of the museums where the T2 is shown and got inspired.

I say it is fitting becacuse with the MIT/Cineramax DP1500 offensive we are definetley going to make a Bulge in the underperforming supposedly high end market. This time however we fully expect to lick the competion.

Peter,
What is the final on off CR on that unit after modification ?


Art

They can make it to 5k like DPI did, but due to 3-d capability desireability they will come out initially at 4k-1. There are some concerns with the dmd temperature. Still if only at 4k, the level of excellence in all other aspects will more than earn the PJ the Blue Ribbon.

I am now looking at Dolby digital servers, as I believe it will be far easier with this superencrypted stuff for the owner of a digital cinema projector to rent a cartridge at the same time the Bel Air crowd does. We will see. My immmediate goal is Beowulf in 3-d, with the 3-d starwars down the line.

i had a phone conversation with barco in belgium 1 hour ago about such a pr.

they told me that till today they not decided to make such pr. but
it is very likely that they will have such a high cr. 1500 unit till middle 2008.

i ask about what they can get out in cr. and they told me that with this new
0,98" cinema chip (that is btw already dc4!) they will get 3000:1 or a bit more.

i ask about what they can get out in cr. and they told me that with this new
0,98" cinema chip (that is btw already dc4!) they will get 3000:1 or a bit more.

Is this native or D65?

i not ask about it but i guess because the guy know me and you
that i talk about d65.

i am not sure but if that is at nativ than where is the improvment?

my christie have at d65 today over 2600:1.
to bad that christie "only" have a fix focus lens 1.2 that have a adjustable
cat eye iris.

The improvement is from native 2000:1 with the 1.3" DMD to 3000:1 with the current smaller DMD. Unfortunately, my guess is that he was talking about native. I am also guessing that the best they will do is 4000:1 at very tight D65 and about 4500:1 with dE increased to 2, which would still be better color performance than any consumer projector.

I think it is around 4k d65 with the aperture plate in.

i not ask about it but i guess because the guy know me and you
that i talk about d65.

i am not sure but if that is at nativ than where is the improvment?

my christie have at d65 today over 2600:1.
to bad that christie "only" have a fix focus lens 1.2 that have a adjustable
cat eye iris.

Wolfgang the projector is made in Kuurne but selected components are made in the USA for a Barco Var that caters to postproduction. This is not a fantasy. Most likely there will be demoes come January.

The guy did not pass out, it's a zombie, and he has an electric guitar traversing his head (hence the brains on the floor), there is another Zombie playing the guitar and an Atomic mushroom cloud as the backdrop.:D

Can you post a close up of that tat?

BTW, nice theatre! :D

Can you post a close up of that tat?

BTW, nice theatre! :D

For you anything is possible. :)

http://cineramax.com/images/PietersTattoo.jpg

His Metal band is touring now.

He also delves in 8bit Metal (http://collect.myspace.com/music/popup.cfm?num=2&time=undefined&fid=184203272&uid=1&t=7zO/L9fGZPH%20uapS8qIis7zWTf8r/FblFiHEl8Vhi4W3XXL/7u2%20OuGfV7vAolilCjk33jXRuDuA40KXuYONrA==d=MTg0MjAzMjcyXjEx OTU3NTc0Mzk=):

For you anything is possible. :)

His Metal band is touring now.

He also delves in 8bit Metal (http://collect.myspace.com/music/popup.cfm?num=2&time=undefined&fid=184203272&uid=1&t=7zO/L9fGZPH%20uapS8qIis7zWTf8r/FblFiHEl8Vhi4W3XXL/7u2%20OuGfV7vAolilCjk33jXRuDuA40KXuYONrA==d=MTg0MjAzMjcyXjEx OTU3NTc0Mzk=):

Sweet. It looked like a work in progress since it was only in the outline stages. It looks like it is turning out good. Thanks for posting it!

LOL, that 8-bit metal is pretty funny!

Nice speakers BTW, I love how the Dynaudio C series sound... Very transparent mid-range.

To me every speaker should be a dynaudio, it's sound is tatooed in my Brain as the real thing. I even paid full list for Dynaudio Acoustics BM series monitors, which are now using for rears and setting up a pair of BM12a L+R and a BM6 Mk11 for center, thats going to be my DTS Master Audio HD refence setup.

Here is the 13 Tearabyte monster in action, now That's entertainment!

http://cineramax.com/images/ThatsEntertainment.jpg


Of course I haven't even begun talking about digital cinema content for the home, but it's coming, here is the gear needed:

http://cineramax.com/images/BelleAireGear.jpg

And here is the mother of all hdcp scalers:

http://cineramax.com/images/12bitscaler.jpg http://cineramax.com/images/12bitscalerf.jpg

I would be interested in finding a way to record the HD content off my Cablevision HD channels to my PC drives. I haven't had time to look into it yet. Any idea if that is possible ATM, or does it always output at lower resolutions than 1920x1080 when you try to route HD content off satellite and cable boxes? I suppose I should call Cablevision (I'll do that after finishing correcting this post - you've sparked my curiosity!).

I don't buy SD-DVDs anymore, I just rent them if I can't see it on Blu-Ray or HD-DVD (and I even rent those a lot too now, unless they are truly great films, or films my family might watch more than a few times... Enough so that they offset renting it multiple times by purchasing the disc).

Can you burn HD discs (Blu-Ray and HD-DVD) to something like your HD setup yet?

Thanks.

Any idea if that is possible ATM, or does it always output at lower resolutions than 1920x1080 when you try to route HD content off satellite and cable boxes? I suppose I should call Cablevision (I'll do that after finishing correcting this post - you've sparked my curiosity!).

Sweet. I can hook up almost any major SATA2 133MBPS 7200RPM drive. I know what I'm buying myself for X-mas now! No more constant erasing to make space. :cool:

It certainly won't be as much space as you have on that incredible RAID array, but better than what I'm used to currently. Thanks for the cool ideas in the thread.

Can you burn HD discs (Blu-Ray and HD-DVD) to something like your HD setup yet?




In glorious 1080p with display handshaking and all.

Unfortunately cable is MPEG2, Nicht gut. The ticket would be to record directv mpeg4 burn to hd dvd and then load unto the raid with cover art and all.

In glorious 1080p with display handshaking and all.

Unfortunately cable is MPEG2, Nicht gut. The ticket would be to record directv mpeg4 burn to hd dvd and then load unto the raid with cover art and all.

Is there a loss in quality between the MPEG2 and MPEG4, or is it a matter of not being able to convert that format for recording to HD-DVD or Blu-Ray?

I found a 1TB Hard Drive to hook up to my Scientific Atlanta 4250HD, but I'm not sure how I would proceed to get the unit to work on my computer as well. Are there any instructional sites on this topic? I'm not sure if my Windows box will be able to read the Hard Drive once the Cable box has formatted it for its uses, any idea on where I can find info on accessing the material on the Hard Drive via Windows?

Thanks.

Thre is info in the dvr section of AVSFORUM. Also look under vista media center.

http://cineramax.com/images/acs-2048.jpg

Outputs and IP control.
http://cineramax.com/images/acs-2048AUS.jpg

Granted it is not only room beautification but treatment of both side walls close to the screen for early reflection purposes.

Ruben is being very accomodating in cutting down the screen to this:

http://cineramax.com/images/HeleneNEWSmx.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/HeleneNEWSmxs.jpg

That means bringing in the left and side speakers to barely clear the 1.77 ar.

http://cineramax.com/images/hELENEbACKwALL.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/MECHRMDOORGLASS.jpg http://cineramax.com/images/rACKINSOME.jpghttp://cineramax.com/images/NEW_ROTOSUB-SUPPT.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/RACKTOPPREP.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/RackPrep.jpghttp://cineramax.com/images/TopRackPrep.jpg

Dynaudio Press Room I
Confidence C4 awarded Stereophile 2007 Joint Loudspeaker of the Year
The December 2007 issue of Stereophile magazine features their 2007 Product of
the Year Award winners, and we at Dynaudio are proud to have the Confidence C4
awarded as Stereophile’s 2007 Joint Loudspeaker of the Year.
The C4s were featured in a follow up review in the magazine earlier this year, and the
write up in this month’s issue states that “With its twin tweeters flanked first by twin 6”
midrange units and then by twin 8” woofers, the C4 stands 69” tall and 17.5” deep, but
somehow manages to remove itself from the scene, leaving behind only the performers
and the performance space, and absolutely transporting the listener.”
Confidence C4 awarded Positive Feedback Online 2007 Writers’ Choice Award
The 4th Annual Positive Feedback Online’s Writers Choice Awards (for 2007) were
recently announced, and the Confidence C4 received the award from reviewer Chip
Stern, himself formerly of Stereophile and previously having honored the Confidence C1
with the same award in 2005 (PFO issue 22). The text pertaining to the award in the
November/December 2007 (issue 34) of PFO, Stern states: “boy oh boy, are the
Confidence C4 ever a music lover's dream. The basic design principles as so beautifully
executed in the C1, are vividly on display in this true no-compromise loudspeaker”,
adding that “bass extension extends well into the organ pedal realms, and on down to the
Earth's core. The C4's most salient aural characteristics are not simply its exceptionally
taut, substantial bass extension but the seamless driver integration and coherence –
there is nothing point source or out of proportion about its presentation, as images retain
their stability and scale, acoustic cues and dimensionality are utterly believable, and
when carefully set up, the C4's disappearing act is every bit as compelling as that of the
diminutive C1s. Likewise, the purity of the C4's midrange, and the mellow transparency of
the top end makes for a fatigue-free presentation, and remarkable top to bottom balance –
the limitless low-end dynamic foundation never obscures more delicate details.”
Confidence C1 awarded Soundstage! Reviewer’s Choice Award
Soundstage! recently published a review of the Confidence C1 (online as of December 1st, 2007). Upon reading the full
review it will be clear why the C1 earned a 2007 Reviewer’s Choice Award in Soundstage! by reviewer Kirk Midstkog, who
summarizes that: “How can a relatively small, stand-mounted speaker be value-competitive with a larger floor standing multiway
speaker? If sonic performance acts as the primary guide, rather than sheer size and number of drivers, the Dynaudio
Confidence C1s are worth every penny of their asking price. At the end of the day, the C1s proved to be deeply rewarding
speakers; they covered the hi-fi areas of detail, imaging, and tonal accuracy exceedingly well, and they always did so in a way
that was consistent with music itself. The C1s thrilled me with their strengths -- their musical honesty, balance and integration.”
Editor Doug Schneider added that: “Voices, in particular, sounded magical. Dynaudio has hit a near-perfect balance with this
speaker, making it one of the best-sounding stand-mounted two-ways I’ve heard.”

The C1s blew me away for the price at HE2007. Phenomenal sounding speaker.

My speakers share the Stereophile joint award with yours. High fives all around! ;)

Some of my other gear is or has been in the Stereophile product of the year pages this year and in previous years after I've bought the items. It is always exciting, for a few reasons, but most importantly, when it comes time to upgrade you can sell them for a better price! :D

http://cineramax.com/images/amxbox.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity2.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity1.jpghttp://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity3.jpg

Surround speakers are moved to 80" to bottom of speaker from finished floor.

http://cineramax.com/images/speakers-up.jpg

Man are you brave. I wouldn't leave my speakers or any equipment in a room full of construction workers. Even if someone doesn't hit it with a 2 x 4 by mistake, the equipment might get dust all over and inside it! I boxed all my stuff up until the construction was finished.

That is NUTS! I can't wait to see it done..

surround speakers so high up? THE HORROR!! :D

(nice fronts, tho. I love the sound of Dynaudio)

http://cineramax.com/images/Cineloungers.jpg

With so many high back chairs I don't mind emulating a real cinema a bit.


Thanks wuff!

Que cumber: yes dust is always a concern but thr stuff is well taped and it is basically components that needed fittting and visual balancing. I't a bit of living dangerous but with somewhat calculated risks.

http://cineramax.com/images/rear_speaker.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/side_speaker.jpg

And the screen wall is going up.

http://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity4.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/screentopwall.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity5.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity6.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity7.jpg

Now the real work begins with the secure positioning of the JL Audios plus the treatment of the speaker boundary 2x4's with foam bitumastic material.

http://cineramax.com/images/Cineloungers.jpg


Wow I'd be afraid to sit in those. Hope they don't have a bunch of kids with popcorn and chocolate sitting on those!

Don't remind me. I was all ready to go with these:

http://cineak.com/images/pic_home5.jpg

And the interior designer all of a sudden was not happy with decorating 13,000 sq feet he needed to extend his say into MY Theater.
"This is not Star Wars" he said. So now it'l look like the Titanic. He even wanted chair rails at which point it was my time to throw the fit.

During my fit I asked the Architect and Owner to Google "Cineramax" and "Chair Rail" together, whence they would fathom my strong opossition to this most hideous of all HT aberrations.

http://cineramax.com/images/rearwall3.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/rearwall2.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/rearwall4.jpg

What's that on top of the rack?

http://cineramax.com/images/rearwall1.jpg

I am playing acoustician, decorator, politician negotiating with every party to be able to support the screen but eliminate some of the excess structure.

http://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity8.jpg

I have had nightly meetings with Ruben to finalise the screenwall.

Here is Jose a great Finish carpenter from African Wood Design, with Pablo Master Builder for JDC (and miracle worker).

http://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity9.jpg

Tonight is my third meeting with Ruben. This will change.

http://cineramax.com/images/equiin.jpg
Input voltage displayed above.Output below. Megascaler powered up.
http://cineramax.com/images/Equiout.jpghttp://cineramax.com/images/Equibarcotest.jpghttp://cineramax.com/images/Rackclosed.jpg

Take a final look at the plexi door cause it will be doing a disapearing act next week.

ANTI MIDDLE-ATLANTIC TIRADE INTENSIFIES:

I was all excited that Wright Line's Vantage rack came with removable top panels...
http://cineramax.com/images/RacktopWirePassEquit.jpg

We all have been so impressed with the racks built quality, but look what they had supplied and was laying inconspicously in a corner. An EINGANG rack top panel.

http://cineramax.com/images/RacktopWirePassthru.jpg

Now you guys know, when it comes time to design a top theater DO NOT USE THAT FLIMSY CRAP that 99.9% of humanity uses. There is a better alternative.

Look how much more refined this rotary sub enclosure has turned out.
http://cineramax.com/images/ROTOSUB_POSITION.jpghttp://host517.ipowerweb.com/~cinerama/images/TRW-17.jpg

Can you visualise?

Hope you can get rid of some of the two-by-fours between the speakers when you frame in the screen opening.

Thats happening at least the two center ones.

Met with Ruben and twisted his arm to come down to the job during the day, I think everything willl turn out just fab.

Amazing how much bigger the room looks with the drywall up. How tall is that ceiling.
Get rid of that interior decorator:)

Actually the decorator is very knowledgeable (design history etc.), and I believe at the end everything will click in.

The ceiling in 12'3" in the front.

I love the looks of the scaler even under plastic.

http://cineramax.com/images/acs2048.jpg

Great thread!

Wow, great thread. It is giving me inspiration and idea's for upgrades just not the time to implement them.

subscribed...

Mike

Thanks for sharing the updates Peter ! As Alan said, it looks great in there.No replacement for ceiling height.

Your recommendation for power conditioning would be Equitech ?

Art

Oh guys come on you are making me blush. I am flatered. Happy merry to all of yous.

Hey Art, special thanks. I look forward for your inspection which still may be 60-90 days out with everything operational. We are shooting for Video and temporary receiver based audio Mid January. That Mark Levinson stuff has long lead times.

For overall system balanced power equitech is tops.

However that 40 amp transformer for the projector on the wall of the mechroom (above the rack) would have ironically come way more handy with your G-90 twins that with the Barco Digital Cinema. (well at the right voltage) Go figure. But at least we are covered for 3-d, a 5 kw would not. 3-D will be the rage in the Industry by next year.

http://cineramax.com/images/PJBalpower.jpg

According to my Barco VAR associate in the SUPERKONTRAST DP1500 development ( they are machining all the custom apertures,and custom lamp adapters for Barco to install in their clean room within 2-3 weeks). That huge balanced transformer is overkill, while neglecting key operational needs of the category.

They say that in the future digital cinema projector installs what is really needed is a 5kw ups with a pure sinewave output. Having uninterrupted power to the lamps and fans is more important than the Balanced voltage compensation.

Here is what should be used for the Barco Superkontrast in the future:

http://www.unistorage.com/unistorage/index.cfm?fuseaction=shop.dspSpecs&part=1771716

Go figure.;)

http://cineramax.com/images/Mouldingdetail1.jpghttp://cineramax.com/images/Mouldingdetail2.jpg

There is 2" fabritrak covered fiberglass in the early reflection general area.

And 1" poly batting Fabritrak over most of the room except the rear which is 1" fiberglass covered with fabritrak.

The theater beautification program has speakers and sconces shifting all over the place. I am pleased however with Zeb's revision decision to go symetrical with the speakers and torches.

http://cineramax.com/images/shifting_items.jpg

According to my Barco VAR associate in the SUPERKONTRAST DP1500 development ( they are machining all the custom apertures,and custom lamp adapters for Barco to install in their clean room within 2-3 weeks). That huge balanced transformer is overkill, while neglecting key operational needs of the category.

They say that in the future digital cinema projector installs what is really needed is a 5kw ups with a pure sinewave output. Having uninterrupted power to the lamps and fans is more important than the Balanced voltage compensation.

Here is what should be used for the Barco Superkontrast in the future:

http://www.unistorage.com/unistorage/index.cfm?fuseaction=shop.dspSpecs&part=1771716

Go figure.;)[/QUOTE]


Hi Peter,
The Eaton unit seems like a really good price. I have in my room a 5Q custom for some of the power on a 30 amp line. If i wanted to I could get the eaton, connect that to the 30 amp Nema 6 twist lock and the connect the 5Q into the Eaton unit. But the need for a UPS for me isn't too urgent. We have the whole house generator powering all rooms including the HT room, yet there is a 30 sec down time until it goes on when power is cut off from electrical company. My measely JVC RS-1 most likely wouldn't be on when we usually loose power--early AM winter storms!!

Hey Mark Happy Holidays.

It's not measely, it is certainly a respectable David.

http://cineramax.com/images/Thermals.jpg

This is the email I got from my top Post House expert:

"Peter, I was checking out your pictures of the room on AVS. Are those AC vents in the ceiling feeds or returns? Any feeds must be out of the picture and away from the screen area or you will get ‘thermals’ in the image. The cool air causes optical distortion that looks like waves or a mirage in the picture area."Fortunately there are two other equaly sized feeds on top of the kill zone (who are going to freeeze their asss now), we will dampen the front grills(balancing the bulk to the 2 back rows) and change the grills to a steep angle/ split directionality type. These would have a center split one half doing a wall wash and the other half a steep backwards throw "That is to remain above the light projection path."

After dealing with this crap I still had time to attend Zeb Jarosz (http://jaroszarch.com/)' office x'mas party at the Coconut Grove Ritz Carlton. I have mentioned here that I believe that Zeb is the top contender for best architect in Florida. He also designed a beautiful expansive compound for Dan Marino 10 years ago, and more recently built Matt Damons Miami Beach house.

http://cineramax.com/images/xmaszeb.jpg

Wow about time dood IDK how many times i looked at you other thread waiting to see what chose. Awesome looking project thus far I am very very impressed!!

~Bobby

Thanks Bobby.IDK what IDK meant. ILI (I Like It).

Peter,

Would you remind me again of the BOSEsque Dynaudio model that that you are using for surrounds?

Sure triple Q [Even though I am letting you know that I find the term BOSEsque quite demeaning you should have come up with something more fitting like FABERGEsque - like those expensive eggs the Czars collected]. It is the CONTOUR SR. It is a wall hanging sealed box, on a tilt 5-7 degree, with an inverted ESOTEC tweeter (drivers are mounted on a metal plate for rigidity and dispersion control)not to be confused with the supremely respectable ESOTAR. But the esotec while not as transparent has a similar power handling capacity. This is a serious little speaker improving on the legendary great performer the Dynaudio Micron minispeaker of a decades past. These same drivers are used in the Genelec killing (desktop category) BM5a from Dynaudio Acoustics.

http://cineramax.com/images/ContourSR.jpgMax SPL 2m, 5.1 (IEC Short Term) 116 dB peak

These are suposedly good to x-over at 90hz. We will probably cut it at 100 or 120 and mix down to .1, due to the beneficial effects to the cummulative signal available for the TRW-17. Even the front speakers as huge as they are will be probably cut and mixed at 65 perhaps even 80, effectively bypassing it's lower octave. Bruce feels that combining the entire bass mix yields the most effective and realistic results with the TRW. [There will be a pair of JL Audio Fathom 113's handling the 20-65hz or 20-80hz]

Over at Dan Marino's 10 years ago he had a pair of Confidence 3 with Esotar (meridian 5000center?!?) and 4 Microns for surround, you should have seen his facial expression when he first heard a DTS CD of Paul McArtney's BlueBird chorus coming off of those Microns. He clutched his mouth, and nodded repeatedly. That is why I don't share anyones pessimism as to how this system will sound, it has to sound better than the decade old system. It'll kick some serious as$.

I'm sure the little dynaudio is a fine speaker, but is it not a little small for the size and calibre of this room? I doubt that price was the issue given the scope of the project.
Even if the owner doesn't crank it up it is still a lot of room to fill. Not saying that you necessarily need a pair of giant Genelecs like some other guys use but something a little bigger than those tiny tots. Fabulous project btw!

Thanks Bogg.

Mike Manousselis of Dynaudio has never steered me wrong, he said not to sweat it, I had to work within the confines of 3 14" thick exterior concrete block walls. The correct speaker would have been the C1 but the f_ckers are 15" deep. In Prometheus we will use the C1's.


With the near stadium height raisers there is not that much room there, there is in the front, but remember that I do not design for the front row AT ALL!!! To me that is an early reflection absorption pit, I design for the two back rows where it is a far-field for the front channels and a near-field for the surrounds.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/75/166791179_37ca166796.jpg?v=0

I did a 7.1 in a little german town in Brazil where the fronts were Temptations and the surrounds were c4's. That is my finest sounding (but overkill). Yet I am not loosing one second of sleep over this, it will sound great. Let Art Sonneborn rate it when he visits.

It was my experience with having these large speakers (quite frankly overkill) in the rears that formed my new strategy of far-field /near-field. Besides weve gone from McIntosh To Mark Levinson amps...

Contour S R The Contour S R was conceived to deliver authentic Dynaudio performance in applications where conventional loudspeakers are not viable.The S R expands the Contour performance level to the same high level of quality as the other models within the range. Its unique, compact geometry renders it discreet, a real advantage when mounting it onto a wall or integrating it into a living environment. Its narrowly tapered, angular shape renders it stylish as well.The Contour S R thus is a perfect solution as an elegant high-quality loudspeaker to complement a plasma display monitor, as well as a very high performance surround loudspeaker for any Contour multi-channel system. The S R, the smallest of the Contour models, features the same high-quality Dynaudio drivers exclusive to this range, ensuring a seamless sonic integration into any system comprised of any model Contour mains and the S C center. Dynaudio's vast studio expertise in recording and mixing multi-channel soundtracks ensures that the most advanced surround sound performance is delivered. The geometrically optimized MSP cone diaphragm ensures a perfectly balanced dispersion character, while the asymmetrical cabinet shape ensures that surface reflections are reduced to an absolute minimum. In combination with an active subwoofer, the Contour S R reproduces a high-quality and surprisingly large sound, very similar to that of a floorstanding loudspeaker. As a side- or rear-channel in a home theater system, it delivers an unsurpassed level of quality free of compromise.The Contour S R is the ideal loudspeaker to deliver true Dynaudio performance to any system where physical space is a consideration. • Sensitivity (2.83 V/1 m) 86 dB • IEC Long Term Power Handling 100 W • Impedance (nominal) 4 Ohm • Weight 4 kg • Dimensions (W x H x L in mm) 165 x 275 x 140


And an exerpt from a review:
The Contour S R and SUB250 system sounds superb on well recorded material, though it can and does expose mediocre recordings for what they are. But this is a small price to pay for an on-wall system whose sound is truly competitive with that of high-end floorstanders. This is one on-wall system that I think finicky, hard-core audiophiles might choose on the basis of its sonic prowess alone.


Some Marketing BS from The PDF Brochure:
In the vastness of the sky, there are no boundaries. In a
wide-open space, the passion is released – a room with no
boundaries, a sound with no limit. This is the nature of
expanded sound frontiers: The Contour SR.

This loudspeaker expands the Contour performance to the
same level of sound quality. Its unique slim-line geometry
renders it discreet, a real advantage when mounting it onto a
wall or integrating it into any living room. Because of its
narrow, angular front shape, the Contour S R is discreet as
well as elegantly stylish.

This smallest Contour model also features high-quality
Dynaudio drivers particular to this range, ensuring seamless
sonic integration when mated to any Contour model in
conjunction with the Contour S C center. The MSP woofer
cone is geometrically optimized for perfect sound radiation
ensuring an even dispersion of sound into the room. The
Dynaudio soft dome tweeter realizes an equally homogenous
radiation of the highest frequencies. As an added benefit
of the compact dimensions and the asymmetrical cabinet
shape, surface reflections are reduced to a minimum, while
Dynaudio’s studio experience in recording and mixing
multi-channel soundtracks ensures that the most advanced
surround sound performance is delivered.

In combination with an active subwoofer, the Contour S R
reproduces a high quality, yet surprisingly large sound, very
similar to that of a floor-standing model. As an effects
loudspeaker, used as a rear- or side speaker in any high
quality Dynaudio Contour multi-channel home theater
system, it delivers unsurpassed quality free of compromise.
The Contour S R opens the sound into a three-dimensional
experience – rooms of expanded sound without limit.

http://cineramax.com/images/rear_speaker.jpg
We had these custom ordered in Steinway method knockoff Black Lacquer, the Bauhaus Sconce Torches are also Black Laquer. In the past Dynaudio worked with Steinway to do their black lacquer finish; years later they must have decided they could do it just as good themselves...

Ian,

It's a beautiful day at the pool and they have us working like spics...:D:D:D:D:D
http://cineramax.com/images/helpool.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity10.jpg

Acomodating a surface from which to hang the screen we added a layer of plywood to make the 2x4's even with the wall above and below, this facilitates the fabritrak Black Velvet instal around the screen as well.

You can rap this screen support wall with your knucles and is now NON RESONANT. Ruben suggested some modifications to the previous design and I cleared open space for the subs.

Never shoot a sub through a PERFORATED SCREEN. Or the new one to also remember is keep air vents for cold air away NOT ONLY FROM THE SCREEN but from the IMAGE PROJECTION PATH AS WELL.

http://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity13.jpg

Never say never...

You see for me saying I Never Ever design for the front row I have been punished by Zeb with A CHAIR RAIL in the pit area.:) It is consistent with the rest of the house (Living, Dining, Family) and it still leaves a respectable height pane above it. My chief objection with chair rails is that they rob height from a theater's design.

They are also going to hang art works on some of the walls. It's fine by me as long as there are no shiny frames and the paintings themselves are of dark / rich non reflective colors. I will have to write a memo to that effect.

http://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity14.jpghttp://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity15.jpghttp://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity17.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/screenwallactivity16.jpg

2 inch ERP vs 1 inch polly batting.

Peter,

Since you are not using an anamorphic lens and are using a (I think) 2:35 or larger screen, how is the user going to switch back and forth between aspect ratios? In other words, how will they rezoom and refocus when they want to switch between say 2.35 and 1.77 and 1.85?

The Barco dp1500 is the first projector to succeed at implementing SERVO LENS ZOOM/FOCUS/SHIFT memory.

That is why I claim this is a prototype system of tomorrow, because in the future MAXIMUM MTF will be respected as the premier image quality parameter along with color. This projector is the king in those regards as the 14 bit processing cinema dlp yields a most perfect color reference standard, and the servo zoom lens IS THE CORRECT way of doing CIH variable aspect ratios.

In this room under the planned decor conditions (only the chairs are to remain ansi C non-compliant) we expect to achieve 850 of Ansi. In Prometheus under stricter decor guidelines and a torus whose high directionality will focus the light unto the seats, I expect a definite world record for Ansi C and therefore MTF in Prometheus.

Another advantage of the Torus is that it is moire less. I highly doubt that the SMX screen will be moire-free under all circumstances. Ruben will gurantee it for the 2.4 and 1.77 positions both but (through pixel array trough a microperforation visual-fitting process) that's about all he can do. Yet with a Torus the aspect ratio is potential without moire is infinite.

Although the Torus design that Don Stewart traced is a shallow TORUS-LITE th eprojector needs to be able to mask it properly. Barco 14 bit technology leads the way in this area. This is not image warping (that is a NO NO for visual high fidelity systems) masking here is done by selective pixel trimming curves. This an extreme example of course.

http://cineramax.com/images/Barmask.jpg
http://cineramax.com/images/Viewfrombed_TORUS_SML.jpg

Price on DP-1500?

Lists for 105-115 (fully modded), but without the Dolby digital cinema 3-D kit, of course.

Lists for 105-115 (fully modded), but without the Dolby digital cinema 3-D kit, of course.

$115,000 USD?

Yes but you are getting $400,000 worth of projector. So it is a bargain. The 4 year old Runco SC-1 is $250,000, without the suite of features in the fully modded Barco.

The price is including the initial calibration with a PR 680 using the 5nm precision option (as oposed to the standard 8 nm which is not accurate enough to measure the primaries on it).

Yes but you are getting $400,000 worth of projector. So it is a bargain. The 4 year old Runco SC-1 is $250,000, without the suite of features in the fully modded Barco.

The price is including the initial calibration with a PR 680 using the 5nm precision option (as oposed to the standard 8 nm which is not accurate enough to measure the primaries on it).

If I was more serious about the HT portion of my setup, which I will likely be one day if I move (I would look for a house with high basement ceilings to do a really large theater and separate my listening room into a separate space), I would love to buy something like that projector. Making complex tasks simple is a great thing...


Perhaps you know what kind of device I would need. I'm trying to figure out how to center my projector on my retractable screen. Right now, it is a little blurry to either side of center, but I can't figure out which way it needs to be moved, or how much to move it... Are there any devices that make mounting a projector spot-on centered and perfect?

Thanks.

If I was more serious about the HT portion of my setup, which I will likely be one day if I move (I would look for a house with high basement ceilings to do a really large theater and separate my listening room into a separate space), I would love to buy something like that projector. Making complex tasks simple is a great thing...


Perhaps you know what kind of device I would need. I'm trying to figure out how to center my projector on my retractable screen. Right now, it is a little blurry to either side of center, but I can't figure out which way it needs to be moved, or how much to move it... Are there any devices that make mounting a projector spot-on centered and perfect?

Thanks.

Seems like you need a laser tape measure, to triangulate a better center.

http://www.checkline-europe.com/products/126163/main_large.jpg

This is the way to measure Throw distance correctly too.

Seems like you need a laser tape measure, to triangulate a better center.

http://www.checkline-europe.com/products/126163/main_large.jpg

This is the way to masure Thorw distance correctly too.

I have one of those. They aren't 100% correct though usually. They can be off by 1/4" if I remember correctly? Is that model more accurate than mine?

What do you do, triangulate the center? What process do you use?

Thanks again.

Hey!!! You switched the picture! :confused: :eek:

That is the better unit. No I don't use trigonometry although I wish I knew how to.

You just keep on measuring from PJ location to screen points SL SC SR , you slide and divide by two the difference , repeat, until SL=SR and PC =SC (measured to the side wall as well).


From th leica site it is very accurate:Measuring Techniques
How accurate is Leica DISTO™ at 0.5m, 1m … to 200m?

The tolerance is not proportional to the measured distance, it is the same over the entire distance. However, over long distances, additional errors of +/-5 ppm (parts per million) (+/-0.5mm/100m) come into play.

if you can describe the image errors better, i might be able to point you i the right direction. if it is sharp in the middle but blurry on both sides... that seems odd.

The issue is the setting square to the screen is almost impossible to do with modern projectors. This is due to the lens not always being dead center of the box, so the box cannot be part of the measuring, only the lens can. the only thing that can do it is to get a square line from dead center of the screen coming off. then ensure the lens barrel is centered on that. then pivoting around THAT axis, ensure that the imaging device fills the screen. use a test disc with a focus patter as well to ensure crisp focus.

true it is a common problem. I still say if the room is reasonably squared, that center of Lens (for PC) to side wall vesus center of screen to sidewall works best.

the issue with lens is since you are only working with one pint, you can be angled but still measure true.

if you can describe the image errors better, i might be able to point you i the right direction. if it is sharp in the middle but blurry on both sides... that seems odd.

The issue is the setting square to the screen is almost impossible to do with modern projectors. This is due to the lens not always being dead center of the box, so the box cannot be part of the measuring, only the lens can. the only thing that can do it is to get a square line from dead center of the screen coming off. then ensure the lens barrel is centered on that. then pivoting around THAT axis, ensure that the imaging device fills the screen. use a test disc with a focus patter as well to ensure crisp focus.

Well. It only seems to focus clearly on center. It isn't noticeable while watching movies, but when using the VPL-VW50 lens focus squares you can see that it is not as focused outside the center (even top to bottom as well...). It is only annoying when trying to read type on my computer when I use it. It really messes with my eyes when I try to web browse and read websites, etc. Is it possible that you can only get the focus perfect in one area of a retractable screen, or even with projectors in general, or should I be able to get the entire screen perfectly focused? What is a realistic expectation?

I used my laser measure and the sides of the screen are only around 1/8th of an inch difference in measurement from the center of the projector, which is below the margin of error for that laser measure (meaning it may not actually be off at all, or it might be off a little bit more). I centered it by moving the projector around on the ceiling until the square of the video output fit squarely in the screen borders, and then zoomed out to fill the screen, so it should be very close to centered.

Unfortunately, my room is not perfectly rectangular or squared, it is irregular. I have pics at the beginning of My HT link in my signature.

Sounds like you might be at the extreme end of one of the zoom ranges. Is that the case?

Sounds like you might be at the extreme end of one of the zoom ranges. Is that the case?

Nope, though I am closer to one end than the other, I am not near the very end or anything.

in order for what you are describing to be happening, the imaging plane is not equal to the focal plane. it is like a curved screen with no corresponding lens or vice versa. can you take a pic or two?

in order for what you are describing to be happening, the imaging plane is not equal to the focal plane. it is like a curved screen with no corresponding lens or vice versa. can you take a pic or two?

What kind of pics would be most useful?

I have a few here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748097&page=1&pp=30

Let me know what kind I should take. I would love to get this problem ironed out. While I don't notice it during regular movies, it hurts my eyes to use the computer or view text smaller than a certain size on the screen. I have the feeling it is off by perhaps only 1/2" or so, but I'm having a hard time measuring it from the hanging projector since I have nothing to stabilize my arms while using the laser pointer.

Thanks.

a few shots of the issue on screen.

a few shots of the issue on screen.

I was having problems taking photos. The lens focus thing on the Sony projector doesn't stay on the screen long enough and I couldn't get a good focus on the screen with the camera in the dark while trying to take the picture. :(

I made a mock-up of the issue below. The yellow area is where the lens is in perfect focus. The blue to dark blue is increasing orders of blurriness, with the right side being a little worse than the left side overall in comparison to one another.

http://www.jkalman.com/images/random_forum_post_pics/screen-focus.jpg

Any recommendations on what resource I should use to find a professional who can come over and tune the setup, including moving the ceiling mount as much as it needs to be moved to be perfectly centered?

It is not one of the easier jobs, because the room isn't centered, and it is a retractable screen, which also isn't centered in the room and which might need to be leveled better as well (I'm trying to get the builder over so we can check that out before I try to find someone to tune the projector). I certainly didn't fine tune it myself, so it is most definitely not 100% centered, though it is close. I would also like to have it professionally calibrated if that is worthwhile for a Sony VPL-VW50.

I guess I'm also wondering if this is just a potential issue from using a retractable screen over a fixed screen as well, and while it can be tweaked a little better, it will never be 100% like a fixed screen.

i think that the only issue it could be is that the proj and the screen are not square to each other. can you put up something like the nokia monitor test and get a grid up to see if you are keystoned left to right?

i think that the only issue it could be is that the proj and the screen are not square to each other. can you put up something like the nokia monitor test and get a grid up to see if you are keystoned left to right?

If you are referring to this:

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Multimedia/Video/Other-VIDEO-Tools/Nokia-Monitor-Test.shtml

I'll go download it and try it out using my PC connection to the projector. What tests do you recommend I do, and what do I check for?

I'm using a grid that the VPL-VW50 projects that is black with green lines, which is how I got the information I posted in my mock-up.

Thanks.

Yea that pattern really is indicative of a screen projector relationship that isn't square.

Art

diverging or converging lines. measure if you have to.

I was having problems taking photos. The lens focus thing on the Sony projector doesn't stay on the screen long enough and I couldn't get a good focus on the screen with the camera in the dark while trying to take the picture. :(

I made a mock-up of the issue below. The yellow area is where the lens is in perfect focus. The blue to dark blue is increasing orders of blurriness, with the right side being a little worse than the left side overall in comparison to one another.

http://www.jkalman.com/images/random_forum_post_pics/screen-focus.jpg

Any recommendations on what resource I should use to find a professional who can come over and tune the setup, including moving the ceiling mount as much as it needs to be moved to be perfectly centered?

It is not one of the easier jobs, because the room isn't centered, and it is a retractable screen, which also isn't centered in the room and which might need to be leveled better as well (I'm trying to get the builder over so we can check that out before I try to find someone to tune the projector). I certainly didn't fine tune it myself, so it is most definitely not 100% centered, though it is close. I would also like to have it professionally calibrated if that is worthwhile for a Sony VPL-VW50.

I guess I'm also wondering if this is just a potential issue from using a retractable screen over a fixed screen as well, and while it can be tweaked a little better, it will never be 100% like a fixed screen.

I think it's fair to take a professional quess based on your mock-up and the photos you posted:

1) The screen must (at this moment) have it's right side very slightly farther away from the projector than it's left side. This is easily verified with the internal Green on Black CrossHatch pattern which will show the horizontal lines keystoning (diverging to the top and bottom) more on the right side (looks like the right camera image below):

http://www.rmm3d.com/3d.encyclopedia/keystone/keystone2.gif

If, on the other hand, the Green on Black CrossHatch pattern looks like the horizontal lines keystone (diverge) on the left side (like the left camera image), then the left side of the screen is a little farther away than right side.


or . . .


2) The screen is secretly transforming itself into a curved cylinder, in which case the center would be in focus while the sides would be blurry, just as you note. But unless CINERAMAX has visited along with Santa over Christmas, or the lens is bad (which is possible), it must be the case illustrated above in number 1.

Otherwise, the Sony VPL-VW50 can be almost 30% off center left to right and still have nearly perfect geometry, but only if (!!!) it is perpendicular to a FLAT screen.

What is the screen size and throw distance, again?

Cheers and Happy New Years :p -

Jeremy


www.Kipnis-Studios.com

What is the screen size and throw distance, again?

I'm posting an updated pic. I've put in red bowing where the thrown image bows on my retractable screen. Everything is equal on the screen in terms of lining up with the corners, except the top left corner where the image does not expand to fill the screen in that corner. The bowing exists on all sides and gets largest at the middle between any two corners. I am thinking that perhaps the top-left corner is a sign of me needing to move the projector slightly, but that bowing can't possibly be a good sign.

I'm going to ask my wife's help to photograph the screen when she is around later. The throw distance is ~19.5' and the screen size is 128.5" diagonal (~112" width???).

http://www.jkalman.com/images/random_forum_post_pics/screen-focus2.jpg

It looks like it definitely must be off to the right (right side further away) because of that top-left screen not matching up with the corner like the two right corners match up. I'm guessing that the bowing is an issue with the screen type itself though?

I'm guessing your retractable screen is self-tensioning? Any possibility the tension is uneven from side to side?

I'm guessing your retractable screen is self-tensioning? Any possibility the tension is uneven from side to side?

It is self-tensioning. It may be uneven (as per the bowing), but how would I go about fixing something like that?

I'm posting an updated pic. I've put in red bowing where the thrown image bows on my retractable screen. Everything is equal on the screen in terms of lining up with the corners, except the top left corner where the image does not expand to fill the screen in that corner. The bowing exists on all sides and gets largest at the middle between any two corners. I am thinking that perhaps the top-left corner is a sign of me needing to move the projector slightly, but that bowing can't possibly be a good sign.

I'm going to ask my wife's help to photograph the screen when she is around later. The throw distance is ~19.5' and the screen size is 128.5" diagonal (~112" width???).

http://www.jkalman.com/images/random_forum_post_pics/screen-focus2.jpg

It looks like it definitely must be off to the right (right side further away) because of that top-left screen not matching up with the corner like the two right corners match up. I'm guessing that the bowing is an issue with the screen type itself though?

Based on the new diagram, I think:

1) the screen (or projector) is closer on the left side by about c. 1.5", and

2) the lens is introducing the pincushion distortion (not correctable). If you zoom all the way to the smallest possible image size and compare it to the largest, the bowing effect will become worse on the larger image. This is present in projectors at this price point, but it also appears in just about any lens at the largest end of the zoom.

If you can shoot the Green Crosshatch from a centrally located camera on a tripod and shoot from the back of the room using the cameras zoom, I can more accurately verify what's going on.

Cheers and Happy New Years -

Jeremy


www.Kipnis-Studios.com

the bowing sounds like a lens issue to me

Based on the new diagram, I think:

1) the screen (or projector) is closer on the left side by about c. 1.5", and

2) the lens is introducing the pincushion distortion (not correctable). If you zoom all the way to the smallest possible image size and compare it to the largest, the bowing effect will become worse on the larger image. This is present in projectors at this price point, but it also appears in just about any lens at the largest end of the zoom.

If you can shoot the Green Crosshatch from a centrally located camera on a tripod and shoot from the back of the room using the cameras zoom, I can more accurately verify what's going on.

I'm going out to replace my broken tripod so my wife can help me take pics tonight. Thanks.

I'm going out to replace my broken tripod so my wife can help me take pics tonight. Thanks.


You are going to take pictures of you and your wife with a tripod?

May that be too much information? :D

You are going to take pictures of you and your wife with a tripod?

May that be too much information? :D

Thanks to Viagra, anything is possible... :p

Here we go, after everyone gets a good look, I'll reduce their size:

http://www.jkalman.com/images/random_forum_post_pics/IMG_3314.JPG

http://www.jkalman.com/images/random_forum_post_pics/IMG_3317.JPG

It only gets really bad closest to the right and left sides of the screen it seems. It isn't noticeable, as far as I can tell during normal movie play, but it is noticeable whenever text is near the right or left side of the screen... It gives me a headache.

I'd like to say that calibrating the projector both physically and electronically would make the difference, but what I see looks like either a bad lens or is simply acceptable to Sony - which is sad either way.

Having worked with projectors of all varieties since 1978, Sony would most likely look at this and say something like:

1) The Green CrossHatch pattern is within acceptable limits as the spacing between the parallel horizontal lines is completely visible.

and

2) The Text (while slightly less sharp and bright) is legible and therefore within the average expected range of quality expected in a $5,000 projector.

Personally, I would go look at a bunch of these particular VW50's with these test patterns and pick the best one. I don't think your set-up is so far off center that it would produce the results we are seeing. I think it is a cheap lens, and perhaps there are a few better examples.

Otherwise, a better lens or projector is in order to fix the problem, and that seems just silly in this day and technical age!

Perhaps I should come and have a look :-)

Cheers -

Jeremy


www.Kipnis-Studios.com

Perhaps I should come and have a look :-)

That would be cool. :cool:

I definitely think it is off center a little, but not much. It doesn't show up in the photos, but the top-left does not fit into the corner of the screen like the other edges of the projected image. I'm also not a great photographer and am not sure how well I did with the hand focusing while trying to get a picture in the dark.

The grid doesn't look as bad in person. In person, that box in the middle has legible and clear type. If I knew more about photography I could try and make it more comparable to the real thing. The black text on white background is more demonstrative of the real thing.

Digitals have been both the best and the worst thing in the AV industry. (down Curt)

The good, we do not have to go over. the bad... the amount of care that goes into most installations now is about equal to the care that went into a chair landing on hacksaw jim duggans back in a cage match.

Physics cannot be fooled with played with or cheated. And poor optics make it worse. While i am sure that the image in question looks spectacular with HD, the graphics capability seems to show its weaknesses. i would hazard a guess that a GOOD tech (not just isf, somebody who is good and has experience. i happen to not think very highly of ISF) could get you some good improvements. not to perfect mind you, but somewhat better.

The good, we do not have to go over. the bad... the amount of care that goes into most installations now is about equal to the care that went into a chair landing on hacksaw jim duggans back in a cage match.

Physics cannot be fooled with played with or cheated. And poor optics make it worse. While i am sure that the image in question looks spectacular with HD, the graphics capability seems to show its weaknesses. i would hazard a guess that a GOOD tech (not just isf, somebody who is good and has experience. i happen to not think very highly of ISF) could get you some good improvements. not to perfect mind you, but somewhat better.

I did all of the installing myself and figured at some point, once all the other issues were worked out in the room itself, I would get around to having it professionally tuned. It may not be worth it at this point though until I save up for a higher end projector it seems. I also have to send my screen back in to have some repair work done (it arrived with damage to the weighting bar and to the screen on the backside). I guess it would be worth it to have it fine tuned for now, because I don't plan on upgrading the projector for another two years or so.

Someone recommended the Lumagen Radiance temporarily, along with the fine tuning of the screen placement. Just as a temporary adjustment for scaling the cinemascope ratio of some HD discs to 16:9 on my screen, and also, because I have two many HDMI devices and can't keep them all optimally tuned with the amount of projector save spaces available. :(

WORK BREAK

Inspired by Arts projection porthole. This one converts an asymetrical hole to symetrical. This is accomplished with a Faux door and a functional viewing halfdoor.

http://cineramax.com/images/Porthole1.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Porthole3.jpg

When the hinges are installed the door will swing fully out of the way.

http://cineramax.com/images/Porthole4.jpg

Rack cover door installed...

http://cineramax.com/images/rackdoor.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/HeleneWalls.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/HeleneWalls2.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/HeleneWalls3.jpg

Sconces and Dynaudio SR speakers centered, above

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/HeleneWalls4.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/HeleneWalls5.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/HeleneWalls7.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/HeleneWalls6.jpg

How to sell a 1/2 million system with a $50 pair of glasses...

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/UgoDolby3D.jpg

Cool finish. So, are you doing all the decorative stuff or is that a contractor? And does $500K include all of the build out and finish work or just the gear?

Cool finish. So, are you doing all the decorative stuff or is that a contractor? And does $500K include all of the build out and finish work or just the gear?

The burlwood framing had evolved from the designer architect team, I just raise the red flag when something is not kosher.


The 500k reference is to another moon, Prometheus... and it is a rounded number, who knows!!!

The important thing is that these home theaters will be enjoying first run movies, at the same time the populace does, without any lines and in 3-D that trumps IMAX. If it looks like I cannot contain the excitement, sue me.:D

Well, you better hurry up because if you don't finish in the next couple of weeks, I'm going to beat you, so it won't matter how first run the movies are :D

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/CarpetIN1.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/CarpetIN2.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/CarpetIN3.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/CarpetIN4.jpg

The colors match the Tealish Navy Velvet walls with the Beige suede chairs.

http://cineramax.com/images/Cineloungers.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/Steplights.jpg


http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/steplights1.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/steplights2.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/helwalls13.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/helwalls17.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/helwalls16.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/Cineloungers.jpg

Is that the "Dog's Playing Poker" painting on the other side of the seats?!? :D

First sighting post contrast enhancement modifications, 100% re convergence, and 5nm calibration.

This is on a 19 foot wide SMX perf screen. Apparently the light is bouncing back through the screen so actual contrast will be better.

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/Superkontrast1.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/Superkontrast2.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/Superkontrast3.jpg

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/Superkontrast5.jpg

Calibration Notes:

"Calibrated to DCI, .314, .351 @ 6303K since we were looking at cinema
content. Once calibrated there are macros to go to D65 (projector knows
where it is at after calibration). 22ft-l at all zoom setting may mean a
2kW lamp. "

Here is a new Video from Dolby (http://www.dolby.com/consumer/motion_picture/ddcinema_demo.html)

Peter,
Such a littlke thing but is it an illusion or are those stair lights pointed upward ?



Art

Peter,
Such a littlke thing but is it an illusion or are those stair lights pointed upward ?



Art

I was wondering the same thing.

One way or another, it is an illusion---I am seeing them pointing down.

All I kept noticing is that the monkey looks neither happy nor impressed with the system.

Peter is the Barco 1500 basest on the nec is-8.

Peter,

I know you built some under the seats for the TRW, but where is the TRW itself located?

One way or another, it is an illusion---I am seeing them pointing down.
Are you looking at the same pics???

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/Steplights.jpg


http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/steplights1.jpg

The Rotary Sub Manifold will work like this:

http://cineramax.com/images/NewPlanSub.jpg

Those lights look upside down to me as well. I am curious though about the holes in the stages under the seat area, assuming that's no illusion, must be the ports of a huge subwoofer built into the foundation tuned to match the resonant frequency of a sphincter.

Edit: Just missed your post, cool.

Those lights look upside down to me as well. I am curious though about the holes in the stages under the seat area, assuming that's no illusion, must be the ports of a huge subwoofer built into the foundation tuned to match the resonant frequency of a sphincter.
It is for the TRW "fan" subwoofer that performs in the 1 hz to 20 hz range. It may have been detailed earlier in the thread. Designed by Bruce Thigpen. Can't remember the company name at the moment.

Edit: looks like Peter posted as you were asking.

The Rotary Sub Manifold will work like this:

http://cineramax.com/images/NewPlanSub.jpg
Cool, how do you access the sub (for service etc.)? From the equipment room?

Peter is the Barco 1500 basest on the nec is-8.

The Barco is Based on their new Medium High Lumen Chassis the FLM HD 14/18.

http://cineramax.com/images/ev_DP1500_pic1_L.jpg

But is really optimized for digital cinema, and has the 8" exhaust to output 300 cfm in non 3-d content. The Projector is available in a ceiling mount version with the exhaust out the back.
http://cineramax.com/images/Barco_Rear_Out.jpg

This is the Digital Cinema Color Space
http://cineramax.com/images/Cie-Color_Gamut_D-Cinema.jpg

And here is Helene own Superkontrast post modifications
http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/SUPERKONTRAST-ColorSpace.jpg
That colorspace is breaking new territory, I was told.

Wait I stand corrected: Odyssey's Barco has more color space , the Superkontrast has more contrast.

More Calibrator Notes:

"The color space on the DP1500 is only slightly greater than DCI spec (mainly in
green), the DP90P
exceeds this by a significant amount but of course is a larger form factor and
can't hit the same
contrast numbers (and doesn't have motorized zoom or lens presets).

Our screen is backed with black duventeen, I was looking at your room pictures
and noticing that the
speakers and even the vertical wood supports (although painted black) will
reflect light. A few yards
of Fidelio black velvet will do wonders. Actually a few extra yards of black
velvet over those front
seats would be a good improvement too. :)"


Yeah those chairs are going to reflect big time. What am I going to do, I can't change it, it is pretty expensive suede from what I hear.

WOW, I suspect the seating warranty is null and void which of course would be a huge concern for the homeowner.:D

Here is a new Video from Dolby (http://www.dolby.com/consumer/motion_picture/ddcinema_demo.html)

Cinermax

The delivery and security system in this presentation looks like the Boeing Digital Cinema prototype I saw back in 2001 .. they sold it some time in 2004 .. Interesting that you are using it for Home use....:cool:

TRW Thigpen Rotary Woofer

http://www.eminent-tech.com/main.html

http://www.rotarywoofer.com/

Cool, how do you access the sub (for service etc.)? From the equipment room?

http://cineramax.com/images/ROTOSUB_POSITION.jpg

Here is the tunnel: It gets painted black and has anti electrostatic Pirelli Rubber Flooring.

I'll dig up another view.

http://cineramax.com/images/MECHRMDOORGLASS.jpghttp://cineramax.com/images/rACKINSOME.jpg
http://cineramax.com/images/NEW_ROTOSUB-SUPPT.jpg

Here is the Pirelli finish, it goes in the tunnel, the mechroom floor and the projector platform.

http://www.rubberflooring.ca/zeos/z557.jpg

Cinermax

The delivery and security system in this presentation looks like the Boeing Digital Cinema prototype I saw back in 2001 .. they sold it some time in 2004 .. Interesting that you are using it for Home use....:cool:

Taker! How are ya my man? IDNK about the system.

Yeah Dolby hardly builds anything, they are in the licensing business.

I love recently declassified stuff.

How appropriate, a sub access with it's own beer fridge. Out of curiousity how much resource is allocated for chasing down and alleviating shakes and rattles after the build?

Hughman Hi, It doesn't really work like that. It is a very refined effect. The way I hear it and sell the idea is that in reality we hear these frequencies all the time, we only not hear these frequencies when we are in an enclosed space, like a theater. Which is Ironic because that is the place we go into TO HEAR STUFF. When a Theater is complemented by this subwoofer frequencies, the reality comfort level is restored. I am sure it could be calibrated out of whack in which case Prep H may be in order, but the intention is to embbed subdtle reality recreation cues.

The refrigerator is really the rack, which is finished in a chicken wire backing for ventilation and and emi/rfi dissipation (as in Gene Hackmans Chiken wire "communications safe room" in Enemy of the State)

I've really not been part of this forum but it's quite refreshing, in general, to see someone who appears to have a proper set of references especially for the reproduction of bass frequencies. Kudos to you.

Chicken wire, can't help but think about blues brothers and beer bottles. HMMMM beeeeer.

I've really not been part of this forum but it's quite refreshing, in general, to see someone who appears to have a proper set of references especially for the reproduction of bass frequencies. Kudos to you.

Chicken wire, can't help but think about blues brothers and beer bottles. HMMMM beeeeer.

Funny!

Oh here is a video. I have come to the conclusion that it is an impossibility to take a 2 minute video or attempt an audissey WIP field test calibration in any jobsite in Miami without some greasy worker yapping something in spanish at full lung. Oh well.

Helene Rack Back with poor lighting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A372mWJPB-g)

Theater Prepped for Fabritrak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc0eBIYMZOM)

A combination of factors has made the screen smaller.

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/helsmx1.JPG

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/helsmx2.JPG

Cinermax

The delivery and security system in this presentation looks like the Boeing Digital Cinema prototype I saw back in 2001 .. they sold it some time in 2004 .. Interesting that you are using it for Home use....:cool:

I'm doing great.. still waiting for the developer to get going so I can start building, I hope in March I can't wait to get The Titian Reference 1080 Extreme in.... Your project looks awsome.. I've never heard your choice of sub before is it as good as they say it is?? :)

Yep it is pretty impressive, but you do need regular subs too, you know?

Yep it is pretty impressive, but you do need regular subs too, you know?

I didn't know that.. my plan is to use 2 JL Audio gothams :D

You are set then. We will use two f113 here in Helene for the 20-80 range.

You are set then. We will use two f113 here in Helene for the 20-80 range.

I hope so .. will you be at Cedia in 2008

One way or another, it is an illusion---I am seeing them pointing down.

http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/Steplights.jpg


http://cineramax.com/CES_2008/steplights1.jpg
Redux:

What an interesting illusion. I believe those of us who thought they were pointing up were seeing them as recessed. But if you look at them as protruding they are indeed pointing down.

Redux:

What an interesting illusion. I believe those of us who thought they were pointing up were seeing them as recessed. But if you look at them as protruding they are indeed pointing down.

Is it time to revive the spinning lady's silhouette optical illusion thread?

http://www.maniacworld.com/Spinning-Silhouette-Optical-Illusion.gif

LOL: "Miami Hoe Theater Prototype", so what was going on there in the dark;-).

Redux:

What an interesting illusion. I believe those of us who thought they were pointing up were seeing them as recessed. But if you look at them as protruding they are indeed pointing down.

I'm one.:o

Art

I'm one.:o

Art


I thought that they discontinued those lights:confused: