DrNorm
09-17-07, 08:12 PM
I have Oceanic TWC (OTWC) and get HD via their leased (POS) DVR S-A 8300HD.
I also watch most SDTV on 1-st gen TiVo, though having 2 DVRs is a PITA. When new TiVoHD player came out for reasonable price, I thought it would be the answer to my problem, as I didn't want to give up HD but can't stand the S-A 8300. It is absolutely awful.
Last week I ordered a new TiVo HD, which arrived Friday. Last Thursday, I stopped by TWC office to p/u Cablecards so I'd be ready to go. I was told it required a service call ($30) and the 1st available date was 3+ weeks. That bummed me out, since install is so easy...
Then, today I rec'd call from OTWC (a f/u of a call I made re getting Cablecard to install myself) to let me know that the customer service rep I spoke to last Thursday failed to inform me that they are switching to SDV bi-directional digital feed in 2 weeks and that it was incompatible with Cablecard. In other words, my new TiVo HD could receive SDTV but would be unable to access any HD channels. I had a small eruption, mostly maintained my cool and went to work with some online research.
What I discovered is that the cable industry has been pushing the SDV delivery b/c it will free up bandwidth for VOIP, ISP and even more HD channels. They also want to free up more bandwidth for PPV and interactive features which can generate more income.
I then got on the phone with TiVo tech and learned a little more:
The Cablecard problem has 2 issues, both solvable, but as yet unsolved. #1 Cablecards come in 2 flavors S (single channel) and M (multifeed). The S cards are unidirectional and will simply not work with SDV (which is why they wouldn't support PPV and interactive features, as well, which require two-way communication). Easy sol'n is get an M card. In fact, they are no longer making S cards, I was told. Problem is, CTV operators want to use up their inventory of S cards. There was talk of a hardware sol'n using a "tuning resolver" outboard device that could give an S card two-way (needed for SDV) functionality. But it evidently has not materialized. If you can get an M card, though, it's a moot point.
Assuming you could get an M card, there is still a problem. The frequency decoding algorithms are proprietary to the CTV companies. THE REAL ISSUE HERE, according to the TiVo tech, is that CTV companies don't want to give up the income stream for "leasing" you a set-top box (STB) or DVR. Cablecards obviate the need for a STB. So, the cable companies will not give the information to properly decode their signal to the card manufacturers or TiVo. According to the same TiVo tech, the whole problem could be resolved with an M card and a firmware upgrade that allowed the TiVo to receive/decode the HD signals. Basically, TiVo's stance is "we're waiting on them and they don't want to give up control of interactive revenue stream and box-lease fees.
On the other hand, I was told by engineer for OTWC that it's "TiVo's fault" because they just don't want to make the firmware changes. Of course, that explanation makes no sense whatsoever to me, as it would only hurt TiVo. He also shyed away from the "only S card availability" issue, as they can charge twice as much per month for 2 S cards vs. 1 M card (I was quoted $6/mo/Cablecard lease fee- in other words $120/yr to "lease" 2 PCMCIA cards).
What's really going on here??? How many other people have HDTVs that require Cablecards? Are other people, unaware of this problem, just going to "lose" their HD channels when their cable companies make the switch to SDV? I scoured the OTWC website and it said nothing about the SDV change. In an FAQ section on Cablecards, in the same paragraph, one sentence read (exact quote) "Please note that most HD channels are not accessible with a CableCARD. Please note that while most channels are available with a CableCARD, some are not accessible." Each link re this issue was directed to the PPV/interactive issues with S cards. No mention was made of the SDV/M-card issue.
One other issue is that the TiVo player keeps everything in digital (which is a good thing) and that STBs output only analog via composite, S-video or RF and digital over component or HDMI. Is it possible that TiVo was just not willing/able to include an HDMI or component input on their DVRs? Would that have solved the problem (though still required a STB?) Actually, it would NOT. The problem, here, is that with te SDV system, the DVR (be it TiVo, S-A, Motorola, whatever) has to be able to "tell" the cable company to "send" it a specific feed, much like entering an HTTP address in a web browser and hit "enter" to send your request to your ISP's server. With SDV, only the requested streams are delivered, as opposed to present UDCP system in which ALL feeds are sent to all subscribers, filling up the broadband "pipe" with a lot of unnecessary traffic. The SDV system is bi-directional, so it's not just that the DVR has to have the right connections for passive reception, but that the DVR/STB has to be able to "communicate" with the cable provider, which means they must speak the same proprietary language!!!!
All I can say is that, fortunately, I bought the TiVo 1 week ago and they have a 30-day no questions return policy. I'm just stuck with tthe $35 shipping it back to them and all the time/frustration this adventure has taken. And, that I'll still have to put up with this POS S-A DVR if I want to continue to watch HDTV. It's not even a problem that could be solved with more money. There is no sol'n for HDTV and a device that requires a Cablecard.
I also watch most SDTV on 1-st gen TiVo, though having 2 DVRs is a PITA. When new TiVoHD player came out for reasonable price, I thought it would be the answer to my problem, as I didn't want to give up HD but can't stand the S-A 8300. It is absolutely awful.
Last week I ordered a new TiVo HD, which arrived Friday. Last Thursday, I stopped by TWC office to p/u Cablecards so I'd be ready to go. I was told it required a service call ($30) and the 1st available date was 3+ weeks. That bummed me out, since install is so easy...
Then, today I rec'd call from OTWC (a f/u of a call I made re getting Cablecard to install myself) to let me know that the customer service rep I spoke to last Thursday failed to inform me that they are switching to SDV bi-directional digital feed in 2 weeks and that it was incompatible with Cablecard. In other words, my new TiVo HD could receive SDTV but would be unable to access any HD channels. I had a small eruption, mostly maintained my cool and went to work with some online research.
What I discovered is that the cable industry has been pushing the SDV delivery b/c it will free up bandwidth for VOIP, ISP and even more HD channels. They also want to free up more bandwidth for PPV and interactive features which can generate more income.
I then got on the phone with TiVo tech and learned a little more:
The Cablecard problem has 2 issues, both solvable, but as yet unsolved. #1 Cablecards come in 2 flavors S (single channel) and M (multifeed). The S cards are unidirectional and will simply not work with SDV (which is why they wouldn't support PPV and interactive features, as well, which require two-way communication). Easy sol'n is get an M card. In fact, they are no longer making S cards, I was told. Problem is, CTV operators want to use up their inventory of S cards. There was talk of a hardware sol'n using a "tuning resolver" outboard device that could give an S card two-way (needed for SDV) functionality. But it evidently has not materialized. If you can get an M card, though, it's a moot point.
Assuming you could get an M card, there is still a problem. The frequency decoding algorithms are proprietary to the CTV companies. THE REAL ISSUE HERE, according to the TiVo tech, is that CTV companies don't want to give up the income stream for "leasing" you a set-top box (STB) or DVR. Cablecards obviate the need for a STB. So, the cable companies will not give the information to properly decode their signal to the card manufacturers or TiVo. According to the same TiVo tech, the whole problem could be resolved with an M card and a firmware upgrade that allowed the TiVo to receive/decode the HD signals. Basically, TiVo's stance is "we're waiting on them and they don't want to give up control of interactive revenue stream and box-lease fees.
On the other hand, I was told by engineer for OTWC that it's "TiVo's fault" because they just don't want to make the firmware changes. Of course, that explanation makes no sense whatsoever to me, as it would only hurt TiVo. He also shyed away from the "only S card availability" issue, as they can charge twice as much per month for 2 S cards vs. 1 M card (I was quoted $6/mo/Cablecard lease fee- in other words $120/yr to "lease" 2 PCMCIA cards).
What's really going on here??? How many other people have HDTVs that require Cablecards? Are other people, unaware of this problem, just going to "lose" their HD channels when their cable companies make the switch to SDV? I scoured the OTWC website and it said nothing about the SDV change. In an FAQ section on Cablecards, in the same paragraph, one sentence read (exact quote) "Please note that most HD channels are not accessible with a CableCARD. Please note that while most channels are available with a CableCARD, some are not accessible." Each link re this issue was directed to the PPV/interactive issues with S cards. No mention was made of the SDV/M-card issue.
One other issue is that the TiVo player keeps everything in digital (which is a good thing) and that STBs output only analog via composite, S-video or RF and digital over component or HDMI. Is it possible that TiVo was just not willing/able to include an HDMI or component input on their DVRs? Would that have solved the problem (though still required a STB?) Actually, it would NOT. The problem, here, is that with te SDV system, the DVR (be it TiVo, S-A, Motorola, whatever) has to be able to "tell" the cable company to "send" it a specific feed, much like entering an HTTP address in a web browser and hit "enter" to send your request to your ISP's server. With SDV, only the requested streams are delivered, as opposed to present UDCP system in which ALL feeds are sent to all subscribers, filling up the broadband "pipe" with a lot of unnecessary traffic. The SDV system is bi-directional, so it's not just that the DVR has to have the right connections for passive reception, but that the DVR/STB has to be able to "communicate" with the cable provider, which means they must speak the same proprietary language!!!!
All I can say is that, fortunately, I bought the TiVo 1 week ago and they have a 30-day no questions return policy. I'm just stuck with tthe $35 shipping it back to them and all the time/frustration this adventure has taken. And, that I'll still have to put up with this POS S-A DVR if I want to continue to watch HDTV. It's not even a problem that could be solved with more money. There is no sol'n for HDTV and a device that requires a Cablecard.