I have a Canon HV20 HDV 1080i camcorder and a JVC SR-VD400U D-VHS recorder that are slightly incompatible via a direct IEEE1394 input connection from the camcorder to the VCR. On D-VHS playback, I get some bad video motion artifacts, and the audio is broken up like an inadequate Voip uplink and is all but unintelligible. I have tried 24p as well, thinking the slower bitrate might work better. Both are output as a 60i transport stream and 24p mode D-VHS recordings have worse artifacts and audio than standard HDV. The Canon has a 25 mbs bitrate and the JVC is supposed to be capable of a 28.2 mbs bitrate. It would not seem to be a bandwidth problem? There is very little detail in the specifications of either unit that would help me understand the problem better. Is the JVC unit just picky?

My research indicates that the culprit is likely small differences in the HDV-1 (720p) and HDV-2 (1080i) MPEG-2 formats as adopted by JVC and Canon/Sony? Why the audio is so much worse than the video is way beyond my 40 years of electronics experience, the audio compression for the two formats would appear to be the same in the format definitions I have found.

Anyone know how to solve this compatibility problem?

I have a Canon HV20 HDV 1080i camcorder and a JVC SR-VD400U D-VHS recorder that are slightly incompatible via a direct IEEE1394 input connection from the camcorder to the VCR. On D-VHS playback, I get some bad video motion artifacts, and the audio is broken up like an inadequate Voip uplink and is all but unintelligible. I have tried 24p as well, thinking the slower bitrate might work better. Both are output as a 60i transport stream and 24p mode D-VHS recordings have worse artifacts and audio than standard HDV. The Canon has a 25 mbs bitrate and the JVC is supposed to be capable of a 28.2 mbs bitrate. It would not seem to be a bandwidth problem? There is very little detail in the specifications of either unit that would help me understand the problem better. Is the JVC unit just picky?

My research indicates that the culprit is likely small differences in the HDV-1 (720p) and HDV-2 (1080i) MPEG-2 formats as adopted by JVC and Canon/Sony? Why the audio is so much worse than the video is way beyond my 40 years of electronics experience, the audio compression for the two formats would appear to be the same in the format definitions I have found.

Anyone know how to solve this compatibility problem?


HDV data rate is slightly too high for JVC DVHS. What you can do is to buy Mitsubishi DVHS and it will record 1080i HDV fine. That tape will also play then on JVC perfectly.

Hi georbro. I also have the Canon HV20 and have tried to move footage from MiniDV to DVHS. I have a Mitsubishi HSHD2000U DVHS VCR which didn't recognize my camcorder through 1394. I may have done something wrong for that to happen but I could try again. Other than that the VCR works fine and I've recorded many HD movies and TV shows using 1394 from my cable box or HD DVR. Different communication protocols between equipment perhaps? Just a caveat.

You cannot directly record from HV20 to Mitsu, you need something (a controller) between them to establish the connections. I've successfully used AVHDDPlayer for this purpose, and others in this forum with Mitsubishi TVs can use the NetCommand controls.

Please explain, who makes this AVHDD player with IEEE1394 I/O? Will this device also conduct the HDV conversion to a JVC D-VHS format? I have been unable to find a product that can be connected in realtime between the camcorder and the recorder via IEEE1394 to translate the 1080i transport stream to a 720p transport stream. Also, I do have a Mitsubishi HDTV and it does recognize every device I have connected (and vice versa) so far.

You will not find any "product that can be connected in realtime to convert 1080 to 720" for less than several thousand $$, as that would require realtime decoding and re-encoding of HD mpeg2. Your best bet would be to obtain mitsubishi DVHS deck (they're very cheap as they do not have a MPEG2 decoder). Then you can use your mitsu TV NetCommand to record from HDV camera to DVHS.

Since you have mitsu TV, avhddplayer isn't needed, but you asked, so AVHDDPlayer is software (http://www.iodata.jp/pr/2004/recpot/closed/avhdd_player.htm click on the button at the bottom of the page to download, the software is actually in english) which you can use to control various firewire devices. Again, before you run to install that, because you already have a TV capable of controlling firewire devices you don't need this.

Thank you so much for your explanation, I will wait tirelessly until someone manufactures an affordable standalone conversion device with IEE1394 I/O, or until affordable and available HD DVD recorders can be purchased.

I actually considered and researched the Mitsubishi units before purchasing the newer JVC DVHS deck. I looked for incompatibilities but was unable to find any documentation that would indicate any existed. I am still unclear as to exactly why the JVC unit will not work, as the realtime throughput is flawless, but some claim the Mitsubishi units will record and playback the 1080i HDV source from the Canon. Can you explain? Will the JVC record and playback a JVC 720p HDV camcorder?

It is difficult to find the Mitsubishi decks still available as new equipment, and if I have to buy one during the interim wait for HD DVD recorders, I would also like to find a home for the JVC.

I don't know what the reason is, but mitsu decks can handle 25mbit datarate of 1080i HDV, while JVC cannot. JVC can however, handle lower (22mbit?) I think datarate of 720p HDV, and in fact their 1st GR-HD1 (or something) camcorder which did 720p was advertised as supporting writing to DVHS.

You might want to keep JVC around anyway for its MPEG2 decoder, though I guess since you have a mitsu TV, you have that covered (built in MPEG2 decoder)... If you're in U.S. you should have no problem getting new HS-1100U mitsu deck for $100 or so.

You cannot directly record from HV20 to Mitsu, you need something (a controller) between them to establish the connections. I've successfully used AVHDDPlayer for this purpose, and others in this forum with Mitsubishi TVs can use the NetCommand controls.
That is correct.
I have a Canon HV10 Camcorder, a Mitsubishi WS-65511 HDTV & Mitsubishi HS-HD2000U & HS-HD1100U Digital VCRs.
I connected the HV10 to the HD2000U via firewire and the HD2000U is connected to the HDTV via firewire. The HDTV immediately detected the new "Canon HV10 Camcorder" device and I added it to my device list.
Next I tried recording from the HV10 directly to the D-VCR by pressing play on the HV10 and record on the D-VCR. After about 40 seconds or so the D-VCR flashed "Error CP" on the display.:confused:
Then I changed devices on the HDTV to the camcorder. I was unable to control the HV10 through the HDTV, but I pressed "play" on the HV10 and it displays on the HDTV. While the HV10 is playing on the HDTV, I press the "record" button on the HDTV remote. The standard DTV record window appears (device: DTV, Start date/time, Length, Channel (greyed-out)) and I press "record" again and the D-VCR powers up and starts recording. I let it go for about 2 minutes - no problems. Switch devices on the HDTV to the D-VCR and playback is perfect! It also played back fine on my HD1100U (connected to my PC).
Here (http://members.cox.net/rpacion/misc/Test.htm) is the TSReader Lite analysis of the recording read from the D-VHS tape.
I wonder what the two private streams are?

I wonder what the two private streams are?
I have HV20. Results are similar. Nothing useful is in private streams, they're just timestamps or some kinda markers, the bandwidth is so low they're not relevant (if you're thinking that their presence affects DVHS recording or something).

My HDD recorder supposedly natively supports recording from HDV by simply connecting the two, hitting play on HV20 and Rec on the hdd recorder, but I never tried that.

Re: Error CP, somehow it thinks the stream is copy protected, when it clearly isn't.

Thank you both for your input on the Mits DVHS and recording from the Canon HDV, I appreciate your input, but it still leaves the reason why it won't work very vague. I guess I need to assume that the JVC is just very picky about the transport stream it will record? The published data rate in the manual is 28.2 mbs for recording the newer of the two HDTV format standards. The older standard was around 19 mbs, which I can understand. Sorry for more questions, I am just one of those people who just cannot stand not knowing, I may need to pass it on later.

Last month I could have found a Mits DVHS much cheaper than I can now. The only ones I can find today are selling for around $300 for both the HS-1100U and the HS-2000U. Most are on Amazon.com. I have seen some posts on this site looking for them as well.

I just paid $380 for the new JVC. I will try to sell it to my doctor who has a new JVC GZ-HD7, assuming we can get it to work on the JVC deck? Can anyone confirm that it will?

I don't know what the reason is, but mitsu decks can handle 25mbit datarate of 1080i HDV, while JVC cannot. JVC can however, handle lower (22mbit?) I think datarate of 720p HDV, and in fact their 1st GR-HD1 (or something) camcorder which did 720p was advertised as supporting writing to DVHS.

You might want to keep JVC around anyway for its MPEG2 decoder, though I guess since you have a mitsu TV, you have that covered (built in MPEG2 decoder)... If you're in U.S. you should have no problem getting new HS-1100U mitsu deck for $100 or so.

Mitsubishi can handle 25Mbps is because it does not record any extra data. JVC records extra data so if you fast forward you will see images. If you fast forward tape recorded on Mitsubishi you will only see blank screen.

I have HV20. Results are similar. Nothing useful is in private streams, they're just timestamps or some kinda markers, the bandwidth is so low they're not relevant (if you're thinking that their presence affects DVHS recording or something).

My HDD recorder supposedly natively supports recording from HDV by simply connecting the two, hitting play on HV20 and Rec on the hdd recorder, but I never tried that.

Re: Error CP, somehow it thinks the stream is copy protected, when it clearly isn't.


Error CP on Mitsubishi can mean many things. It does not alwys mean copy protection. You will see it if signal is bad or there is no signal. It says it right in the manual. BTW, what HDD recorder do you have?

Thank you both for your input on the Mits DVHS and recording from the Canon HDV, I appreciate your input, but it still leaves the reason why it won't work very vague. I guess I need to assume that the JVC is just very picky about the transport stream it will record? The published data rate in the manual is 28.2 mbs for recording the newer of the two HDTV format standards. The older standard was around 19 mbs, which I can understand. Sorry for more questions, I am just one of those people who just cannot stand not knowing, I may need to pass it on later.

Last month I could have found a Mits DVHS much cheaper than I can now. The only ones I can find today are selling for around $300 for both the HS-1100U and the HS-2000U. Most are on Amazon.com. I have seen some posts on this site looking for them as well.

I just paid $380 for the new JVC. I will try to sell it to my doctor who has a new JVC GZ-HD7, assuming we can get it to work on the JVC deck? Can anyone confirm that it will?

28.2 Mbps is a total data rate for HD DVHS. Max video rate is 25Mbps, however JVC records extra auxiliary data thus lowers max video rate to 23Mbps. Mitsubishi does not record any extra data with video so it can handle 25mbps. As I said before, the tape recorded from HDV on Mitsubishi plays back perfect on JVC DVHS.

Thank you, that explains it quite well.

I will try to sell it to my doctor who has a new JVC GZ-HD7, assuming we can get it to work on the JVC deck? Can anyone confirm that it will?

No, that will definitely not work either, I think HD7's bitrate in max quality mode is even higher, up to 30mbit.

BTW, what HDD recorder do you have?

IO-DATA HVR-HD500R.
It has a switch that makes it work as either AVDisk or DVHS... Handy because only one piece of equipment I have understands AVDisk and the rest only DVHS