I recognize that I could have done the searching, but I have a simple question for Myth experts.

Can I build a Myth front end to act as simply a stand alone media player, without necessarily using the Mth backend?

I want to make a set-top like media player appliance that can see Windows shared drives on the network, and play media from DVD-R's, that's it.

I also want to make a Myth box that is only a media player with no network connection at all.

Does this require the backend to be installed, or can the front end run in GeexBox/XBMC fashion?

Yeah you can do that. It only needs a backend to view recordings or watch live TV. You can remove the watch recordings and watch tv options from the menus.

Oddly I get a cannot connect to backend error when I quit the myth frontend, but not when it starts up. You may be able to stop it from checking somehow.

Yeah you can do that. It only needs a backend to view recordings or watch live TV. .

Don't arbitrary .avi/.mkv files count as "recordings"?

Does a front-end only setup allow easy selection of arbitrary video files, i.e. mpeg, mp4, avi, mkv, etc?

Myth Video takes care of the arbitrary files part, it's what I use Myth for 90% of the time. It'll likely take some tweaking to get it working how you want to. There are three modes or views that mythvideo can use; gallery, browser, and listing. By default they all rely on metadata in the database which means you have to import and blah blah blah. I have mine setup to use the Listings view and I skip the database crap and just have it browse the filesystem.

Utilities/Setup -> Setup -> Media Settings -> Video Settings -> General Settings

Default View: Listings

Next>

[x] Video List browses files

Also, use I use mplayer as the default player.

Utilities/Setup -> Setup -> Media Settings -> Video Settings -> Player Settings

Default player:
mplayer -fs -zoom -quiet -vo xv %s

Depending on the distro you use, it'll probably be more difficult to do a frontend only. I'd just do a normal setup but not configure any of the recording stuff.

Sounds like a ripe opportunity for someone to come up with a Live CD "Myth Media Player" distro, a Myth Video/Music/Audio/Photo/ (maybe Web) only disk that auto detects as well as GeexBox/PCLinuxOS, has as low hardware requirements as possible (perhaps separate SD, 720p HD, and 1080p HD capable LiveCD's?).

The idea is to make the equivalent of a Dlink Medialounge

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=DSM-320RD-DT&cat=CON

which plays physical discs as well as media files over WiFi and wired Ethernet, no recording capability.

Basically, we want a Philips 642 with Wifi, Ethernet and ability to play more media types, and physical media like USB sticks, USB hard drives, and memory cards of all flavors.

FYI-

http://www.geexbox.org/en/index.html

MythTV is great with TV and works pretty well with video files. I'm not that impressed with MythMusic, I find it somewhat ugly. Fluendo Elisa on the other hand looks great.

http://elisa.fluendo.com/screenshots/

MythTV is great with TV and works pretty well with video files. I'm not that impressed with MythMusic, I find it somewhat ugly.

I totally agree with you. MythMusic is not very intuitive at all. I really don't like how you create playlists. If there's a piece of MythTV in need of a rewrite it's MythMusic. Speaking of frontends I waiting for this bad boy to arrive:
http://www.hauppauge.com/images/mvp_board-b.jpg

I paid $70 for it on Ebay and I'm going to install MVPMC (http://www.mvpmc.org/) which basically turns it into a thin client frontend for MythTV. Should be fun tinkering with it.

I paid $70 for it on Ebay and I'm going to install MVPMC (http://www.mvpmc.org/) which basically turns it into a thin client frontend for MythTV. Should be fun tinkering with it.

Nice find! I wasn't aware of MVPMC.

However, this highlights my point. It looks like THe MVP device has limitations like most set top media player exterders- it only plays MPEG1/2 video, no Divx/MPEG4/H264.


For $70 (or less, depending on how many old parts you already have or someone gives you as junk), you could easily build a full featured PC using standard old parts- a P3 500-1Ghz, some old 64MB PC100/133 RAM, no hard disk, only an old DVDROM and on board video and sound, then use GeexBox or Myth front end. It will play all known media formats.

It looks like THe MVP device has limitations like most set top media player exterders- it only plays MPEG1/2 video, no Divx/MPEG4/H264.
It can't play those codecs natively because the processor doesn't have enough horsepower to handle them. It can play Mpeg2 because it has a hardware decoder. I have read that it's possible to play divx/xvids & mpeg4 files if they're streamed via VLC from the server. I'll definitely play around with that and report back at some point.


For $70 (or less, depending on how many old parts you already have or someone gives you as junk), you could easily build a full featured PC using standard old parts- a P3 500-1Ghz, some old 64MB PC100/133 RAM, no hard disk, only an old DVDROM and on board video and sound, then use GeexBox or Myth front end. It will play all known media formats.
Honestly I'm more interested in the fact that it's an embedded thin client. Once it's all configured it's more than likely going in the guest bedroom. It's cheap, silent and doesn't consume much power. Lately I've been into learning more about Linux and embedded devices. I love these commercial products that are hackable because they're running on Linux.

Some other frontend options include a playstation or xbox:
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Choosing_SD_Frontend_Hardware

Some other possibilities might might be a Koolu thin client:
http://www.koolu.com/
http://www.youtube.com/v/876jZuLhsbU


Or maybe the NeurosOSD or it's eventual successor:
http://www.neurosaudio.com/

I'm going to the Ohio Linux Fest this weekend and will ask Joe Born (Neuros CEO) if they're planning on using their device as a MythTV frontend.

I had a mediamvp that I played with as a sage frontend. It worked ok, but I didn't really like sage. I looked at the myth support for the mvp, but was never really impressed because it didn't support the full functionality.

elisa looks really cool, however! I'm going to try it on my atv tonight.

Guys, I've had great luck with the Appletv running Mythtv. It's also silent, but alas not all that cheap at $300. However it does have hdmi, component and optical spdif. I am greatly enamored by it and by tossing Linux on it, you open up the whole world whether you want Myth or not.
-Trouble

you can get them for $200 on ebay. that's what I did.

Can the AppleTVs do HDTV with Linux? I seem to remember that was an issue at first, but people were working on being able to take advantage of the hardware acceleration. Of course I could be completely wrong :)

Xvmc is supported via the standard NVidia Linux binary drivers :)
-Trouble

Can the AppleTVs do HDTV with Linux? I seem to remember that was an issue at first, but people were working on being able to take advantage of the hardware acceleration. Of course I could be completely wrong :)

The AppleTV uses a 1Ghz P3-class cpu and GeForce G72M GPU
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/appletvs-specs-not-that-impressive-228814.php

Other than the form factor, I would think you'd be better off putting the $200-$300 into a silent, small form factor PC, easily built to the AppleTV specs for that price range if you use some used/free parts lying around. I have several 1Ghz CPU's coworkers gave to me, with motherboard!

Put the money into a standard desktop/media mATX/ATX case and GF6/7000 series video card, and you'll have a standard box you can service and expand.

I have heard the AppleTV can play some 720p (probably MPEG2), but no higher res.

With a homebuilt Myth/Geexbox, you can keep updating the CPU to play SD->720p->1080p

Running under osX, yes, 720P is all you're getting, but in Linux, I've had little issue using 1080i material. Please show me how I can build a silent, small frontend for 2-300$ that doesn't look like an office PC reject from 1998! Now of course I have a 'real' htpc in my theater where I have plenty of room and spent the money to build a decent system but for the living room and bedroom, that won't cut it for me. Also factoring things in like a remote and IR receiver, I find it doubtful that you can really build a nice looking, small, silent HTPC for 3 bills. I've gone through the exercise over and over attempting to do so, but a decent case with a good power supply is going to run you at least $150 alone. Get into the nice cases and pricing goes up massively. Look, I'm no Apple fanboy, in fact I'd imagine that Apple would hate the fact that I take their client for spending money at itunes away from them, I just think for the capabilities (though with some pretty hefty work required to get things on the machine!) it's a good deal. Without the video accel and the Nvidia drivers, yah the thing can only do SD.
-Trouble

Running under osX, yes, 720P is all you're getting, but in Linux, I've had little issue using 1080i material. Please show me how I can build a silent, small frontend for 2-300$ that doesn't look like an office PC reject from 1998!

<sarcasm>What?!, an Apple product that actually runs better with Linux?!</sarcasm> ;)

This how-to keeps OSX on it:
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Installing_MythFrontend_on_an_AppleTV
Are there any How-To's available for installing Linux and MythTV? Have you had any issues getting the wireless or remote working?

I totally agree that secondary front-ends should be low powered, small form factor devices. IMHO $300+ is too much for a thin client. I think the sweet spot is $100-$200. I was looking at these mini-itx systems but they're not cheap:
http://www.mini-box.com/s.nl/sc.8/category.12/.f

The Koolu box is very cool but it's not really designed to be an HTPC component. The Zonbu box appears to based on one of these:
http://www.ewayco.com/51-embedded-systems-100-PC-mini-ITX-low-cost/11-tk-800mhz-low-cost-pc-embedded-system.html

Something like this with all the A/V connections and enough horse power to do 1080i would be awesome.

There really isn't a how-to for installing linux. People that have done this (myself included) aren't too good with documentation... ;)

I have wireless working with ndiswrapper and the brcmwl5.inf from a dell driver. I haven't been able to get the remote working, but others claim to have. The remote isn't that useful to me because it only has a few buttons. I use a mce remote and lirc without a problem.

It can be done and it isn't too hard. It just takes a little time.

The AppleTV uses a 1Ghz P3-class cpu and GeForce G72M GPU
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/appletvs-specs-not-that-impressive-228814.php

Other than the form factor, I would think you'd be better off putting the $200-$300 into a silent, small form factor PC, easily built to the AppleTV specs for that price range if you use some used/free parts lying around. I have several 1Ghz CPU's coworkers gave to me, with motherboard!

Put the money into a standard desktop/media mATX/ATX case and GF6/7000 series video card, and you'll have a standard box you can service and expand.


I'd like to see you build this too. No way will it end up looking good. A decent htpc case is at least $75-$100.

The MediaMVP was just delivered. Unfortunately, I won't be able to play around with it much till next week. Getting ready for Ohio Linux Fest (http://ohiolinux.org) this weekend. If anyone is attending please stop by our booth and say hi. We'll be giving away plenty of swag. If you're in Columbus on Friday please come by Barley's Brew Pub. We're hosting the pre-convention party and will have free beer tokens.

I'd like to see you build this too. No way will it end up looking good. A decent htpc case is at least $75-$100.

<shrug> this one looks "decent" to me...

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=3304-BLK&cat=CAS

It can be oriented as a tower or desktop.

Running under osX, yes, 720P is all you're getting, but in Linux, I've had little issue using 1080i material. Please show me how I can build a silent, small frontend for 2-300$ that doesn't look like an office PC reject from 1998!

It's called "kickin' it old skool" :D

Haven't you heard of retro chic? ;)

1080i using what codec? MPEG2 .ts/tp format, I assume? I would think the AppleTV couldn't do MPEG4/264 1080i/p.

Good point re: IR remote/receiver cost, though given the flexibility of GeexBox/Myth and Lirc, it is easy to find used/low cost IR serial/USB receivers on Ebay or elsewhere.

Another option for a media player/extender:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=205770682&adid=17653&dcaid=17653

Far more capability for $349 vs the AppleTV.

You could probably find one for less on ebay. Complete with dual core CPU for x264 HD, and lots of other hardware standard.

RGB, you're definitely comparing Apples to Oranges, so to speak. Those mini-tower cases are fine, if you're okay with having a large loud machine for your HTPC frontend. But, for those of us who are not, things get more complicated.

I spent years tweaking small form factor PCs, with Mini-ITX mobo's, small cases, expensive cooling options, etc.. And, it is possible to build a nice, small, quiet x86 box. But, it will end up being more expensive than a Mac Mini, not to mention the AppleTV. And, it still won't be as small, quiet, or powerful as the Mini.

I do have a cheap beige box Linux server as my MythTV backend, locked away wear noone has to look at or hear it. But, I use a Core Duo Mini as my frontend. I think it's the best of both worlds.. I can do all the general purpose apps on it, without hacking; and the Mac OS X version of Myth Frontend is, in my experience, easier to set up and as good in quality as the Linux version. There is also the option to dual boot, or only install Linux on it.

1080i using what codec? MPEG2 .ts/tp format, I assume? I would think the AppleTV couldn't do MPEG4/264 1080i/p.


Yes, he's talking about MPEG2. MythFrontend running under Linux.

In Mac OS mode, it does H.264 up to 720p. I think I remember people having success with higher resolutions too. Apple presumably uses hardware acceleration in the NVidia GPU to do this, because that 1GHz Pentium-M wouldn't be fast enough on its own.

I have been keeping an eye on the AppleTV, as an option for an additional frontend. Troubleshooter: Is it solid enough for everyday use now (running Linux)? Any playback issues with XvMC? I had more than my share of problems using XvMC on my Linux box with FX5200 GPU.

It's hard to beat the AppleTV form factor: low power, low noise, Component Video Out, HDMI Out, Optical Audio, Integrated IR receiver, integrated PSU (no wall wart).

RGB: Truuuuust me, I know my ghetto PC's :) I have plenty of them and they're fine in many circumstances! Like tji said, yeah Myth HD is generally MPEG2 at least here in the US and that's what I get out of my HDHomeRun. I do have a machine running the 'real' atv OS with patchstick mods added and NitoTV and it does seem to handle 720P material fine (TV shows from an unnamed source and they're played through MPlayer) though I have no 'non-mythtv' 1080i HD that I've tried in native 'MacOS mode'.

tji: To be honest I mess with the Linux Atv so much right now it's hard to say whether I'd consider it 'production' ready. Checking my uptime shows 3 days right now...that's the last time I changed things on it...I'm borderline saying that even my 'real' Linux Mythfrontend in the theater is 'production ready' due to issues that could be just due to my hardware (not going into that here but ndiswrapper and wireless are involved so I really can't get too upset).

The crazy thing is that my 'real' MacOS based Atv with the OSX version of Mythfrontend has been SUPER stable...its uptime is over 2 weeks now of daily use. Of course it's a drag when I want to watch something in HD...no go....Mythfrontend doesn't hook in to MacOS's driver acceleration. Hell a perfect world would get me a MacOS based Mythfrontend that handled acceleration....It'd be unstoppable based on what I see on the existing machine. I find the MacOS (well Backrow I guess in this case) based frontend MUCH more tolerant to problems than my theater generic Linux box. I had just seen what was going on at awkwardtv and figured I'd throw 3 hundo into playing with it hoping for the best...It's been worth it! Also in Linux, you can do composite out 480i to an old standard TV...Can't do that by default, which I think was stupid on Apple's part!


-Trouble