Title Says it all. Sony has or is shipping initial dealer orders for the VPL-vw60. The warehouse in California has the stock. Depending on the dealer's location, they should arrive at dealers sometimes next week. or early the following week. Whoopee.

Great!! :D

Looking forward to your review on it!!!!

They filled my entire batch but I probably ordered less than the mighty AVS. I doubt I'll get them for five or six days. They come by truck 3000 miles or so.

That 1.33 unit has 1/3 bigger everything (lens, lamp, contrast, remote, etc...).

can't wait for your review Jason ;)

-Gary

Of the standard 1.0 unit or the 1.33? :D

I guess I better order a 1/3 bigger screen. :)

Your wall plug receptical would have to be !/3 bigger. Jason and I evidently have WAY WAY too much spare time.

A lens that transmits less light as one goes from short to long zoom is a lens of decreasing aperture or increasing effective F stop. A lens that has the same aperture at both ends (and doesn't eat light), is a constant aperture lens or a lens of constant effective F stop.

Eh?

what lens are you talking about ??

Hopefully the one I preordered will arrive at AVS on tues!

that lens ? :D

In Jason's review of the new Infocus 1080p machine, he observed that unlike most zoom lens projectors, the Infocus's light output ddn't decrease as one goes from the zooms short end to its long. He remarked that the Infocus's lens aperture must "vary" or sonething like that in order to maintain a constant light output. I sent him an email pointing out that for the light output not to vary, the lens would have to have a constant effective aperture, not one that "varied." He ingnored me.

Mark do you know if they are doing anything with a combo of aperture & dimming the bulb? Dimming the bulb seams to be a new option staring to be used by some of the manufactures. Im not technical enough to know if its possible and I have not seen this projector in action but wondering if maybe they are using more then one option to maintain contrast.

I doubt they are boosting the light output as the lens is zoomed out. If I remember correctly the projector has various manual iris settings allowing one to increase contrast at the cost of brightness as the iris F stop is increased. With an electric iris (not dynamic) one could I suppose automatically increase the F stop of the iris as you went from the long to the short end to decrease the light output and maintain constant lumens at the short and long end. But as I understand the machine the iris is mechanical and not electrically operated or linked to the zoom setting. Of course I could be wrong.

The elegant but expensive solution for maintaining constant light outout regardless of zoom setting is a constant effective aperture lens or very short zoom ranges in a set of three or more interchangeable zoom lenses as say the Qualia 004.

In photography a constant aperture zoom lens at low F stop (200 to 400 mm at constant F4) could sell at ten times the price of the same lens that increased a full f stop at the long end (such an increase would be mean 1/2 the light gathering power at the long end. (F4 at 200 and F5.6 at 400)

Thanks Mark. I should have used the term modulating instead of dimming:)

I doubt they are boosting the light output as the lens is zoomed out. If I remember correctly the projector has various manual iris settings allowing one to increase contrast at the cost of brightness as the iris F stop is increased. With an electric iris (not dynamic) one could I suppose automatically increase the F stop of the iris as you went from the long to the short end to decrease the light output and maintain constant lumens at the short and long end. But as I understand the machine the iris is mechanical and not electrically operated or linked to the zoom setting. Of course I could be wrong.

The elegant but expensive solution for maintaining constant light outout regardless of zoom setting is a constant effective aperture lens or very short zoom ranges in a set of three or more interchangeable zoom lenses as say the Qualia 004.

In photography a constant aperture zoom lens at low F stop (200 to 400 mm at constant F4) could sell at ten times the price of the same lens that increased a full f stop at the long end (such an increase would be mean 1/2 the light gathering power at the long end. (F4 at 200 and F5.6 at 400)


you mean a projector with very limited zoom range (say 1.2 factor) will not vary much in light output no matter where on the throw it's installed ?
vs a projector with a large zoom range (like SONY JVC EPSON) ?
now the previous epson had a 45% drop in light output from short throw to longest throw, dito for the PANA AE1000.the sony and JVC lose about 15-20%

Obviously a fixed (none zoom) lens such as in a CRT projector has one F value. Change it to a zoom lens and a lens designer can choose between constant F stop or increasing F as the zoom goes from short to long. The glass in a constant F is much larger than say in a constant F especially in a long zoom. Make the lens a very short zoom, say a zoom that translates to throws of 1.8 to 2.2 screen width. The difference in effective f stop at the long end will be a lot less than say between 1.4 and 2.4. Unless constant aperture there will be a difference, but the shorter the toal zoom length, the less difference there will be.

I remember reading one of GRs reviews for another projector ( dont remember the model but it was DLP) and remember the zoom not effecting contrast on that one as well. Seeing as most projectors use a lens who's zoom has effect on contrast are they using cheaper optics or are the ones who's zoom range do not effect contrast using something out of ordinary that will become the norm over time. Losing contrast because someone is limited to a certain throw due to room restriction is not ideal.

Different. First there is the optical quality of the glass, ED, elements, groups, line pair resolution, corner focus, pincushioning, optical coatings, yada yada. Whether a zoom lens has a constant aperture across its zoom range is independent of the overal optical quality. Its a question of how much glass, the diameter of the glass, one uses. For the F stop progression, say 2.0, to 2.8, 4.0, 5.6, for every jump in F the glass size decreases by 1/2 from the one before. So if one lost one F stop at the long end, in order not to lose it the lens manufacturer would have to design the long zoom end with twice as much glass. Most projector lenses do not loss a full stop, about 1/2 stop which equals about a 35% loss. For high quality optics, doubling the glass sze at the long end gets very expensive fast.

people indeed understimate the huge cost of high quality pure glass sophisticated lenses.

cine4home clocked higher contrast ratio at long throw positions for hte jvc and the sony but a bit less lumens

Usually contrast goes up as lumens decrease. Thinking about say using modulation to increase the lumens the amount that the glass eats up at the long end instead of using more glass, while economical, to me makes little sense. Why not have more light at the short end too and use other methods of obtaining more contrast or let the user decide more light and less contrast as is the choice with iris settings?

Even with motion flow on the vpl-vw200 the user has a variety of choices including shutting it off and maximizing lumens.

I'm frothing at the mouth to get my PJ so let's hope Sony has been kind to me in their shipment to AVS!

I signed up to buy one very early so I'm probably safe but I'm curious if you'll be contacting those in queue to receive one or will you simply ship out what you get?

Wow you can definately tell that Sony shipped them out. IT went from one or two vendors on Ebay to like 6.

Always...gotta love ebay. :) Although I wouldn't trust most of them...

What size of screen should I consider if I'm placing this projector at a distance of 12' and also what Stewart screen would be the best choice in a room with no ambient light issues to worry about?

To the latter...I would say ST130 from Stewart. For the size...what is the viewing distance?

And the E bay boys said in stock. Not true.

ST130 might not be what you want. If you have a bat cave, you're probably after very black blacks? If so, you might want to check out the Firehawk. In a batcave, even with the VPL-VW60's excellent 30,000:1 contrast, blacks just won't be convincing in a batcave.
Why would blacks be more convincing on a Firehawk in a batcave with no ambient light issues?

imho he says the black the room the less lumens one requires vs lumens fighting a white living room
so you can go with a grey screen and even a fitler and seek lower black level

i wouldnt go that far, i prefer the largest possible screen in a black room with a zero or higher gain white screen

I agree, go big! In a bat cave the blacks will be great either way but might as well take advantage of the situation and get a nice big screen. At 12' viewing distance with the VW60 I'd say at least 106" and even bigger (like 120") would be great. In my experience people rarely regret going BIG but often regret going too small. Of course many don't ever know what they're missing because they've never gone BIG (usually because they're afraid to make a mistake so they "settle" for a "safe" size). Especially with a 1080p projector I think it's safer to go with a big screen...

To me it's an easy call to go-large because in a bat cave you can always project a smaller image on screen if (for whatever reason) you think it's too large but of course you're limited by the screen size if you go too small. If you dislike the idea of projecting a smaller image on a large screen then you can always mask it to the desired size if needed.

To me there are two basic HT approaches:
1) Looks all cute like a commercial theater with fancy popcorn makers and fancy lights, isles, seats and other paraphernalia. This type of theater balances aesthetics with performance - typically sacrificing both to some degree (however some of this type may also fall into the second category if done just right).

2) High performance. This type of theater often has acoustic sound treatments, is black or very dark, has high quality sound and often pays relatively little attention to aesthetics compared to the showcase home theater. Some HT's of this type however may look very nice as well.

To me a BIG screen is often ideal for the second type of HT, but can work for both.

Why would blacks be more convincing on a Firehawk in a batcave with no ambient light issues?

The grey screen lowers the black levels, doesnt it?

I had a 106" G1 firehawk in my old HT, and it was a batcave (navy blue room/ceiling/carpet/blacked out windows), even my LEDs were dimmed, and it certainly had better blacks than a matte white (1.0.)

The grey screen lowers the black levels, doesnt it?
Gray screens lower all light levels and not just blacks (increase in contrast)... my first screen was gray and compared to white screens it looks a bit dingy. I don't think I'd ever go back to gray as I don't think they are really necessary anymore with newer/brighter projectors. Even in a situation with some ambient light a white screen is probably better...

The grey screen lowers the black levels, doesnt it?A lower gain screen will certainly lower the light level (both black and white). If one has properly sized a screen for the correct light output, according dCinema ~12 FtL, making the picture dimmer just decreases dynamics and color.

One can certainly use a Firehawk over a ST130 if one has ambient light issues. There is no benefit to a Firehawk over a ST130 in a total batcave. 12 FtL on a Firehawk in a batcave will not give better blacks that 12 FtL on a ST130!

I agree, go big! In a bat cave the blacks will be great either way but might as well take advantage of the situation and get a nice big screen. At 12' viewing distance with the VW60 I'd say at least 106" and even bigger (like 120") would be great. In my experience people rarely regret going BIG but often regret going too small. Of course many don't ever know what they're missing because they've never gone BIG (usually because they're afraid to make a mistake so they "settle" for a "safe" size). Especially with a 1080p projector I think it's safer to go with a big screen...

To me it's an easy call to go-large because in a bat cave you can always project a smaller image on screen if (for whatever reason) you think it's too large but of course you're limited by the screen size if you go too small. If you dislike the idea of projecting a smaller image on a large screen then you can always mask it to the desired size if needed.

To me there are two basic HT approaches:
1) Looks all cute like a commercial theater with fancy popcorn makers and fancy lights, isles, seats and other paraphernalia. This type of theater balances aesthetics with performance - typically sacrificing both to some degree (however some of this type may also fall into the second category if done just right).

2) High performance. This type of theater often has acoustic sound treatments, is black or very dark, has high quality sound and often pays relatively little attention to aesthetics compared to the showcase home theater. Some HT's of this type however may look very nice as well.

To me a BIG screen is often ideal for the second type of HT, but can work for both.
#2 baby, all the way ;)

-Gary

#2 baby, all the way ;)

-Gary
Me too! :D

Gray screens lower all light levels and not just blacks (increase in contrast)... my first screen was gray and compared to white screens it looks a bit dingy. I don't think I'd ever go back to gray as I don't think they are really necessary anymore with newer/brighter projectors. Even in a situation with some ambient light a white screen is probably better...


The Firehawk is a positive gain screen. It is not like the Stewart Grayhawk. The firehawk is grey AND has a reflective coat/sparklies. Lit pixels are reflected back at positive gain and darker pixels are made to appear darker because of the grey, I think.

I am not certain about how the science of it works, however, unlike other grey screens the Firehawk does not lower all light levels.

A lower gain screen will certainly lower the light level (both black and white). If one has properly sized a screen for the correct light output, according dCinema ~12 FtL, making the picture dimmer just decreases dynamics and color.

One can certainly use a Firehawk over a ST130 if one has ambient light issues. There is no benefit to a Firehawk over a ST130 in a total batcave. 12 FtL on a Firehawk in a batcave will not give better blacks that 12 FtL on a ST130!

The gains on the G1 firehawk and the Carada BW, 1.25 to 1.4 (not sure of their actual ratings, but I believe both are measured 1.2ish) I believe, but the blacks on the firehawk are darker.

I came from a matte white (1.0) to a Firehawk G1 (1.25) and the blacks were more fulfilling.

............ the blacks were more fulfilling.
You know, an ex-girlfriend said that to me once.

The Firehawk G3 from Stewart is a 1.25 gain grey screen. To eliminate hot-spotting, Stewart says you want a minimum throw of 1.7x. It is also angular-reflective meaning light is reflected from the screen upon an angle away from the path of the lightsource. In this case, the projector's light path is reflected towards the viewer based on the projector being ceiling mounted, whereas light coming from the sides is reflected away from the path of the viewer.

They recommend it if you have any ambient light in your theater, from lighting to solar (windows) during viewing time.

Individual results may vary depending on just how much ambient light you have. Without it, they usually recommend the StudioTek 130 or higher based on screen size and radii if any.

Richard

You know, an ex-girlfriend said that to me once.

Some things are better left unsaid:) :)

You know, an ex-girlfriend said that to me once.
:p :D :D

you ever heard the classic short but sweet joke?

What is big, white and long?

nothing! :D

-Gary

The Ruby at a 2.2x throw!

Richard