I just received both my Blu-ray and HD-DVD copies of Nature's Journey. An interesting footnote is that they have different encodes. Both are VC-1, however Blu-ray's average bitrate is 37Mbps vs. HD-DVD's 26Mbps. Both have DTS-HD 96/24.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1107/nj1eq4.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1979/nj2qu5.jpg

~Josh

C'mon Josh, give us a good unbiased opionion on if the BD is better. If we can't tell the difference then we've proven the arguments on higher bitrates are balony.

Looking forward to your and others thoughts!

Nice, screen comparisons would be nice when you have time. Also, audio comparisons.

That's interesting that they actually put the bitrate on a sticker on the package. That's the first time I've ever seen that done. Also note that the BD has DTS HD-MA, and the HD has DTS-HD (not lossless); assuming the labels are correct.

This should be a very interesting comparison.

That's interesting that they actually put the bitrate on a sticker on the package. That's the first time I've ever seen that done. Also note that the BD has DTS HD-MA, and the HD has DTS-HD (not lossless); assuming the labels are correct.

This should be a very interesting comparison.

even if there was a diff you know hd dvd supporters will just say what they got is good enough and continue hating on sony.

i thought the bd version is delayed indefinitely due to some technical issues.

vc1 is supposedly very efficient at low bit rates, would it have been better to use avc instead?

i thought the bd version is delayed indefinitely due to some technical issues.Josh gets early review copies. I'm sure they're still holding it back to even out the bugs with all players.

10/9

Wow, stickers with the bitrate! NOW we've hit high def.:rolleyes:

Don't depend on an unbiased and objective review from Beatboy77.

I have the HD-DVD version and it is going to be VERY difficult for the BLU-RAY version to out do it, the encode in practically perfect. I'm also going to be getting the BLU-RAY version for my own comparison.

As far as content goes this is a VERY good disc if you like Nautre Hd material set to ambient music. It also has very nice seamless CG effect that are quite trippy.

Josh gets early review copies. I'm sure they're still holding it back to even out the bugs with all players.

i know, i just thought he usually get them a week or two before release.

Both have DTS-HD 96/24.



To avoid adding to the current confusion, shouldn't we be specifying DTS HD HR or DTS HD MA? It makes a big difference as HR is much more readily available and accessible than MA. IMHO, just saying DTS HD isn't very useful until players are capable of MA and HR.

the blu-ray version was said to be superior by the disc's producer richard casey. so there it is.

To avoid adding to the current confusion, shouldn't we be specifying DTS HD HR or DTS HD MA? It makes a big difference as HR is much more readily available and accessible than MA. IMHO, just saying DTS HD isn't very useful until players are capable of MA and HR.

RBFilms did indicate DTS HD MA is coming to the PS3, so hopefully the firmware update for it comes soon.

the blu-ray version was said to be superior by the disc's producer richard casey. so there it is.
Link????

Anyways, there would have to be a difference... why else would they go through so much trouble of two seperate encodes.

the blu-ray version was said to be superior by the disc's producer richard casey. so there it is.

He never said superior.

He DID say that it was a higher bitrate encode and lossless to take advantage of the higher bandwidth.

It remains to be seen whether there is a significant difference as of yet...

RBFilms did indicate DTS HD MA is coming to the PS3, so hopefully the firmware update for it comes soon.

capable of passing, decoding or both?

capable of passing, decoding or both?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=908149

No worries...you will soon...and if you like the DTS-HD audio track ... you will be amazed by the DTS-HD-MA soundtrack...:)



Originally Posted by Dead.Horse
Thanks for the impressions swanlee. I'm waiting on the blu-ray and it's increased bitrate, but sadly won't be able to make use of the DTS-MA through my PS3.

He never said superior.

He DID say that it was a higher bitrate encode and lossless to take advantage of the higher bandwidth.

It remains to be seen whether there is a significant difference as of yet...

Personally, I think the studios avoid doing two (2) different video encodes for political reasons. I can't think of any other reason...does anyone else habe any ideas on this?

I doubt it is because they are lazy, as the typical major studio creates at least ten (10) times more work than is necessary to create and approve one of these titles...so they are used to being busy and working hard...

Surely it can't be the cost...because if I can afford to do it on a release that may only sell a few thousand units at best...they can afford to do it on a release that will sell 10,000 to 50,000 units without question....

Last but not least, they must know about the technology and its capabilities ... because I am sure the technical and sales groups explained to the executives that they would get a better product and see "sales lift" for their releases if they just produced them the right way ... they would do it .... right?

So one might be led to believe that it is just politics in the end...but who knows. I do know that I will continue to do these releases the right way and I will push my Major Studio contacts to do the same.

So far, there has been no interest in what I have to say ... none, nada, zippo .... but that does not mean I will give up. I am pushing to do just one release for them my way.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11664749#post11664749

He sounds like a smart guy, and if he ever said BD was better than HD-DVD, his company would be boycotted and his Email box would be filled with threats. He certainly doesn't come right out and say it.... but I can read between the lines.

He never said superior.

He DID say that it was a higher bitrate encode and lossless to take advantage of the higher bandwidth.

It remains to be seen whether there is a significant difference as of yet...

As for the audio aspect it is pretty much implied to be superior on Blu-ray:

RBFilms:
No worries...you will soon...and if you like the DTS-HD audio track ... you will be amazed by the DTS-HD-MA soundtrack...

That's interesting that they actually put the bitrate on a sticker on the package. That's the first time I've ever seen that done. Also note that the BD has DTS HD-MA, and the HD has DTS-HD (not lossless); assuming the labels are correct.

This should be a very interesting comparison.It would be really nice if this information were required to be on the Blu-ray video to get some sort of Blu-ray industry seal of quality.:):)

Josh gets early review copies. I'm sure they're still holding it back to even out the bugs with all players.Nah, that's in the past. I'm sure it's currently being produced and shipped to distributors.

I have both for review and did a brief comparison last night. I will publish a full review this week. However for a quick look. First the audio. The audio on the BD disc will not play on the Panny player. There is an issue with how BD java has been implemented on the Panny player and will require a firmware upgrade to fix it. I am waiting on final word on that and hope to have it Monday. The audio works on all otther BD players. The DTS-HD track is excellent on the HD-DVD with a nice, open and airy sound. As for the video, it is outstanding. The HD-DVD has some great HD demo material, among some of the best I have ever seen. As for the BD disc with the higer bitrate encode, it looks fantastic as well. Does it look better than the HD disc? Preliminarily, it appears just a smidge more detailed upon close up viewing with sharper edges around objects. However, they are so close, especially at normal viewing distances, that I would be hard pressed to be able to ID them on a blind test. They are that close. I went back and forth with the same scenes looking at them over and over last night and still am not sure if there is a real difference. My adage usually is if I have to look that hard to see what I think may be a subtle difference, there probably isn't one. Maybe on a 100" screen a difference will be more apprarent. I will try to check into that when I can. Either way, other than the audio issue on the Panny, these are both great discs and outstanding demo material.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11664749#post11664749

He sounds like a smart guy, and if he ever said BD was better than HD-DVD, his company would be boycotted and his Email box would be filled with threats. He certainly doesn't come right out and say it.... but I can read between the lines.Already happened. Earlier this year they were attacked repeatedly by posters (and some "insiders" also if the truth be told) when RBFilms said that they intended to produce Nature's Journey on each of the formats with the maximum quality that was possible for each format. And just for saying things such as they would use the maximum bit rate a format allowed, RBFilms was subjected to continuous attack from the HD-DVD side.

RBFilms did as they said they would do. Swanlee has received and reviewed the HD-DVD version and found it to be reference quality. I'm looking forward to getting the Blu-ray version in October and I'm sure it will deliver maximum quality for the Blu-ray format. Unfortunately, there will likely be flame wars erupting over the comparisons that will be done over the work on the two formats.

Battle time we have one person who prefers blu-ray (Beat Boy) with both and one who prefers HD DVD (JWhip) who has both. Two shall rise and one will fall, ok jk. Will be interesting to see how your two comparisons compare :)

"The audio on the BD disc will not play on the Panny player. There is an issue with how BD java has been implemented on the Panny player and will require a firmware upgrade to fix it"

Bummer as I have the Panny and will be getting the BLU-RAY version, I already have the HD-DVD version. Are you on firmware 2.3 for the Panny?

No battle at all. They both look GREAT! The BD may look a smidge better on certain scenes. I would be happy to have purchased either, unless I had a Panny BD player which I do. None of the audio tracks work through analog outs. I do not have HDMI audio hooked up a standard didgital toslink or coax out for the BD player so can't comment on if they work. The audio is excellent thouh on the HD disc and I am sure it will be on the BD also if I can just get that to play!

I installed the lastest firmare as of two weeks ago. Mr. Casey is checking for me to see if the proper firmware update is ready or has been released.

You did see the part where I said "jk" meaning "just kidding", right? :)

Nah, that's in the past. I'm sure it's currently being produced and shipped to distributors.

good to hear.

would this stuff be the perfect material to show on tv when you have a bunch of ppl in the living room who are just having conversations, perhaps playing cards and what not.

Already happened. Earlier this year they were attacked repeatedly by posters (and some "insiders" also if the truth be told).

Boy, I'd love to dig up that thread!!

I will try to get the full review done before monday which is Transformers time!

You did see the part where I said "jk" meaning "just kidding", right? :)

LOL!!! I personally would like to see Beatboy go up against "The Nigerian Nightmare"!:D

Boy, I'd love to dig up that thread!!

Here is the thread, however quite a few posts have been deleted:

"Nature's Journey - HD-DVD featuring 26Mbps Encode and 96/24 DTS-HD"
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=868186



The blu-ray thread as well for comparison on specs:

"Nature's Journey - BD with 37Mbps VC-1 Encode and 96/24 DTS-HD Master Audio Lossless "
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=868185

Good thing I read the last page of that thread:

DTD-HD-MA should be available by 4th quarter....1st quarter at the latest.

good to hear.

would this stuff be the perfect material to show on tv when you have a bunch of ppl in the living room who are just having conversations, perhaps playing cards and what not.Of course not. When we're entertaining we'd never have the television on unless we were specifically watching a game or actively watching a Blu-ray or television show.

But the idea of playing something on the television while playing cards might have some merit. Particularly if I could put on something distracting when having my poker playing friends over. It could increase my "take". Just kidding...:):)

But the idea of playing something on the television while playing cards might have some merit. Particularly if I could put on something distracting when having my poker playing friends over. It could increase my "take". Just kidding...:):)

but unfortunately what will distract my friends will be just as distracting to me. eva green walking to the table in that red dress would describe the situation very well.

Here is the thread, however quite a few posts have been deleted:

"Nature's Journey - HD-DVD featuring 26Mbps Encode and 96/24 DTS-HD"
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=868186

Interesting read..... So if I got this correct, DTS masters had to be dropped from the HD-DVD version in order to keep up with the video on Blu Ray?

Interesting read..... So if I got this correct, DTS masters had to be dropped from the HD-DVD version in order to keep up with the video on Blu Ray?
Yes, he states this directly in this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=10919192&postcount=33

Here is some info regarding the disc space usage.

HD-DVD is at 13.1 Gb and was authored in HDi code (Advanced Content Authoring).

BD is currently at 20.2 Gb and is authored in BD-J code

We were limited by the bandwidth of HD-DVD....there was no room to push the encode AND have DTS-HD Master Audio. I would need to "dumb down" so to speak the video encode to make it fit within the allocated bandwidth. I felt that PQ was more important to most people, so I went for best PQ with outstanding audio.

We were limited by the bandwidth of HD-DVD....there was no room to push the encode AND have DTS-HD Master Audio. I would need to "dumb down" so to speak the video encode to make it fit within the allocated bandwidth. I felt that PQ was more important to most people, so I went for best PQ with outstanding audio.

this is unacceptable as the look and sound of perfect.

Yes, he states this directly in this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=10919192&postcount=33

For once we get some honesty around here from a neutral studio with nothing to gain or lose from either side.
Mr. Casey could of simply did an identical release on both formats, but instead maxed each one out, and quite possibly, caused a lot of controversy here.... consider this one ordered!

this is unacceptable as the look and sound of perfect.

Only if you consider lossless audio perfect... which we're all told is not necessary.:rolleyes:

I have been advised that the firmware to fix the sudio issues with the Panny will be available mid October, firmware 2.4.

It was actually only delayed by a few weeks.

This disc is 100% compatible with every current player on the market and is probably one of the most heavily tested and QC'd disc released to the marketplace.

However, Nature's Journey BD may require that you install the latest firmware updates for your BD players to assure proper playback.

I agree with your comment regarding VC-1 and AVC by the way. We will be using AVC on our next release.



i thought the bd version is delayed indefinitely due to some technical issues.

vc1 is supposedly very efficient at low bit rates, would it have been better to use avc instead?

Although we can't make any steady general conclusions from one release, this is why we need more seperate encodes. To me this is how the format war should be fought. All studios neutral and just let the technology duke it out.

It's really the best thing to happen for both sides. If we get a decent collection of separate encodes we can look for a trend. If they're by and large identical then HD DVD supporters would be vindicated. If most show slight or large improvments then the BR side would be vindicated. What we need is a trusted forumer like Xylon to provide actual evidnce of the difference. I think I'm not alone when I say I'm not going to believe anyone who is a vocal supporter of either format. There's too much of a chance for personal prefrence to factor into seeing a tangible difference. We need definitive evidence that can be pointed to time and time again so this silly bickering can be one step closer to a resolution.

In fact if we end up getting a good selection of titles to test, it would directly impact or solidify my personal stance on the format war.

It's distinctly possible most of us will be unable to pick out differences between DTS HD core and DTS HD MA when we FINALLY get the equipment to do it. OTOH, I suspect the RBfilm boys (and maybe 1% of the rest of us) have the audio equipment needed to resolve the differences.

Was it users retracting their statements or the AVS Forum folks deleting posts? I am curious...because several threads that I have participated in have been closed and I too have noticed posts being deleted.


Here is the thread, however quite a few posts have been deleted:

"Nature's Journey - HD-DVD featuring 26Mbps Encode and 96/24 DTS-HD"
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=868186



The blu-ray thread as well for comparison on specs:

"Nature's Journey - BD with 37Mbps VC-1 Encode and 96/24 DTS-HD Master Audio Lossless "
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=868185

Panasonic has confirmed that a fix is being deployed on their next firmware update (version 2.4). This will be available to the public in mid October. Customers will be able to get the update from Panasonic's customer support site.

This was the ONLY known issue left when we decided to ship Nature's Journey BD. All of the other issues were corrected by player manufacturers prior to us releasing this title.

I installed the lastest firmare as of two weeks ago. Mr. Casey is checking for me to see if the proper firmware update is ready or has been released.

For once we get some honesty around here from a neutral studio with nothing to gain or lose from either side.
Mr. Casey could of simply did an identical release on both formats, but instead maxed each one out, and quite possibly, caused a lot of controversy here.... consider this one ordered!And I would hope that many folks, from both formats, will be ordering this. Here we have folks getting the very best from each format. A very sharp contrast with many of the studios doing just enough to get by (on BOTH formats). I hope Nature's Journey can be a success and that it can serve as an inspiration to the big studios.

Already on pre-order. Can't wait:)

Was it users retracting their statements or the AVS Forum folks deleting posts? I am curious...because several threads that I have participated in have been closed and I too have noticed posts being deleted.Probably some of both. Richard, just like in the novel 1984, history here periodically gets rewritten. Sometimes, for some things, for some people, it's "like it never even happened".:)

Richard,

thanks for participating in the forum. I can't wait to watch it.

Richard,

Some people can already hear DTS Master Audio tracks. There are Denon and Onkyo receivers and Onkyo Pro and Integra pre-amps (same unit under both brands) out with the new audio formats and starting with the Samsung 1400 Blu-ray player you can send a raw bitstream of DTS-MA, DTS-HD, Dolby TrueHD, and Dolby Digital Plus.

We just need more people to give their audio impressions (hopefully they have good sound systems).

Dan

To settle the argument once and for all, do the comparison on a PC and take a difference map frame by frame. Locate and flag the frames that have the biggest differences, then go back to do A/B on the exact frames on two identical calibrated 1080 monitors.

This is how I detect problems with avc video encodes to see if larger differences are visible to the eye. In almost every case where there is water or rapid random motion, I can find instances of differences, and once you see it, you can always find it in A/B even double blind.

Or you could do it the hard way and single step side by side on A/B with two identical monitors fed by the two disks.

Somebody send these to Xylon so he can once again save the day! :D;)

I have both for review and did a brief comparison last night. I will publish a full review this week. However for a quick look. First the audio. The audio on the BD disc will not play on the Panny player. There is an issue with how BD java has been implemented on the Panny player and will require a firmware upgrade to fix it. I am waiting on final word on that and hope to have it Monday. The audio works on all otther BD players. The DTS-HD track is excellent on the HD-DVD with a nice, open and airy sound. As for the video, it is outstanding. The HD-DVD has some great HD demo material, among some of the best I have ever seen. As for the BD disc with the higer bitrate encode, it looks fantastic as well. Does it look better than the HD disc? Preliminarily, it appears just a smidge more detailed upon close up viewing with sharper edges around objects. However, they are so close, especially at normal viewing distances, that I would be hard pressed to be able to ID them on a blind test. They are that close. I went back and forth with the same scenes looking at them over and over last night and still am not sure if there is a real difference. My adage usually is if I have to look that hard to see what I think may be a subtle difference, there probably isn't one. Maybe on a 100" screen a difference will be more apprarent. I will try to check into that when I can. Either way, other than the audio issue on the Panny, these are both great discs and outstanding demo material.

JWhip........Look forward to your observations on the two encodes. Would you please indicate what your equipment is in your playback chain is specially the display device you are doing your viewing on. I hope it is a 1080p projector with a 70in plus screen! :)

Some pictures of you set up as well as a few screen shots would be nice!

That is exactly what I thought...:)

Thank you for your insight.

Probably some of both. Richard, just like in the novel 1984, history here periodically gets rewritten. Sometimes, for some things, for some people, it's "like it never even happened".:)

I would be curious about the results with both HD / BD played back on a Dual Format Player. This way you are using the exact same converters for output eliminating any variables on that front.

I never said that.

I try to always state the facts...and only the facts.

The BD Version had the bandwidth for higher bit rate encodes and DTS-HD-MA Lossless Audio. That is a fact. Whether it looks or sounds better is up to you folks to decide.

Our next release will use 96/24 or better DTS Master Audio Lossless with AVC Encodes on both HD and BD. This is what people appear to be wishing for. However, we will have to bring the video encode rate down on HD-DVD closer to 21mbps or 22mbps to accomplish this. Regardless, the Video encodes should still look great at this bit rate ... albeit, I believe there may be a more noticeable difference between the two different encodes at that point.

Lower bit rate encodes take more finesse and care to assure best picture quality. At lower bit rates, we must be more diligent and spend more time on the Video Encode to assure best picture quality. The talent, experience, knowledge, and skills of the person doing the video compression plays a more crucial role as the bit rate decreases.

The next disc will also feature a Tech Bonus Feature that presents the same content using different Video encodes such as VC-1, AVC, and MPEG-2 at various bit rates ranging from about 15mbps to 25mbps on HD and from 15mbps to as high as 40mbps on BD. In addition, there will be an audio comparison comparison featuring DTS and Dolby Audio encodes in a variety of flavors ranging from 48/16 192kbps WMA to 48/16 448kbps Dolby Surround to 192/24 DTS Master Audio Lossless and everything in between.

I am just now trying to source the content I want to release and I am in discussion with numerous folks that have 4K Red Cameras. I am also looking at original source material in 8K as well. The biggest problem I have at the moment is finding a studio with enough 192/24 DCS Converters (the only ones we will use at 192/24) and the proper microphones to do the recording work. The Bruel and Kjaer microphones are surely reference quality as are many of the high end studio mics available today which we will also use.

Besides using traditional microphone and recording techniques, we may also end up recording an alternate version of the soundtrack using seven (7) surround microphones to give an accurate re-creation of the environment in both subjective and objective recording styles.

The only problem I have is figuring out what type of content I should use. I am hoping to do this with a title that will sell more than just a few thousand units. This will be an expensive disc to produce. I am hoping to secure a music artist for this disc and do a simple live multi-camera shoot....we shall see.

Sorry for rambling on and on well beyond answering your question. I just like to get feedback from forum members so I can better understand what they want and what they would buy.

In the meantime, we GREATLY appreciate your support on Nature's Journey. Thank you to all those who continue to support our efforts on HD and BD. Your help and positive comments on Amazon and other websites is greatly appreciated.

the blu-ray version was said to be superior by the disc's producer richard casey. so there it is.

Richard, it seems to me like your concerns about volume of units could be answered by broadcasting on Discovery HD, ala Planet Earth. Have you had any discussions with HD networks on broadcasting your content?

We do sell to Broadcast worldwide....and the thing about broadcast, which we have done for years, is determining how to make our our ROI the least negative.

What I am saying is Broadcast sales help ... but they will not recoup our investment in the first round of sales....we already know that. Home Video and Licensing need to make up the difference.

Typically, a product like I am talking about would not recoup from broadcast until the second round of sales 2 or 3 years down the road...of we are lucky that is.

Also, Discovery literally pays almost nothing for content licensing. We get five times more money or better from other networks ... but still, on a release like this ... even they would not help us fully recoup out of the gate.

I do not mind a wash at this early stage of the game...but even that is not happening yet. We are in a negative position on every release we do right now.

However, I am not as stupid as I look. :) I see all of this as positioning for our label building an audience thrugh grass roots marketing to hopefully achieve steady revenue so we can produce and release bigger and better titles. Also, all this High Definition content will continue to generate revenue for many years to come .. so the library has value as we build it. It is just costly up front ... but we view it as long tem investment really.

Also, most HD Broadcast on cable looks like crap. My Verizon FIOS standard definition content look better than my cable HD content. Cable is a dinosaur in my opinion....but that is another conversation altogether.


Richard, it seems to me like your concerns about volume of units could be answered by broadcasting on Discovery HD, ala Planet Earth. Have you had any discussions with HD networks on broadcasting your content?

We do sell to Broadcast worldwide....and the thing about broadcast, which we have done for years, is determining how to make our our ROI the least negative.

What I am saying is Broadcast sales help ... but they will not recoup our investment in the first round of sales....we already know that. Home Video and Licensing need to make up the difference.

Typically, a product like I am talking about would not recoup from broadcast until the second round of sales 2 or 3 years down the road...of we are lucky that is.

Also, Discovery literally pays almost nothing for content licensing. We get five times more money or better from other networks ... but still, on a release like this ... even they would not help us fully recoup out of the gate.

I do not mind a wash at this early stage of the game...but even that is not happening yet. We are in a negative position on every release we do right now.

However, I am not as stupid as I look. :) I see all of this as positioning for our label building an audience thrugh grass roots marketing to hopefully achieve steady revenue so we can produce and release bigger and better titles. Also, all this High Definition content will continue to generate revenue for many years to come .. so the library has value as we build it. It is just costly up front ... but we view it as long tem investment really.

Also, most HD Broadcast on cable looks like crap. My Verizon FIOS standard definition content look better than my cable HD content. Cable is a dinosaur in my opinion....but that is another conversation altogether.


Richard, thanks for all your honesty and expertise you bring here... its really a breath of fresh air!:D
Im not an expert on audio codecs, but I'm very curious why you chose DTS masters over Dolby Tru HD???
Besides the benefit of being able to extract the DTS core, what other benefits, if any, do you feel DTS brings to the table over Dolby?

Richard, thanks for all your honesty and expertise you bring here... its really a breath of fresh air!:D
Im not an expert on audio codecs, but I'm very curious why you chose DTS masters over Dolby Tru HD???
Besides the benefit of being able to extract the DTS core, what other benefits, if any, do you feel DTS brings to the table over Dolby?

He went over the reason for his preferences for DTS in his two main threads that he created a while ago. I linked them earlier at post #33

He went over the reason for his preferences for DTS in his two main threads that he created a while ago. I linked them earlier at post #33

Ok MonkeyBoy... your gonna make me search:D.

If I had to sum it up....

Dolby - Most efficient use of space with great Sound Quality.

DTS - Best approach and best use of space for ultra high fidelity sound.
-Richard J. Casey

This is very interesting. I always thought PCM = DTS HD masters = Dolby TruHD.
He appears to favor DTS masters and, I can't find it now, but I think he said Dolby and DTS are both better than PCM????:eek:

If true, thanks to R&B films and Fox for pushing a codec that could of very easily disappeared and may in fact be the best!

No, did not say that DTS / Dolby was better that PCM.

I did say that Analog was better than PCM however...

Fi I have a choice, I like my home theater running surround using tube equipment.


Ok MonkeyBoy... your gonna make me search:D.



This is very interesting. I always thought PCM = DTS HD masters = Dolby TruHD.
He appears to favor DTS masters and, I can't find it now, but I think he said Dolby and DTS are both better than PCM????:eek:

If true, thanks to R&B films and Fox for pushing a codec that could of very easily disappeared and may in fact be the best!

Thank you....we enjoy being here....despite the abuse we often take..:)

Albeit, with this release, it has been less than normal....so I should not really complain.

Being able to extract the DTS core is a huge factor. DTS actually lets you be backward 100% compatible and if I ma not mistaken ... DTS can even carry separate stereo mix / stream in the same encode....albeit, we have not done that yet.

DTS has some brilliant engineering behind their design actually.

Again, I am not going to get in to MLP Audio ... or DTS Tru-HD verses PCM. I am sure if you go back in time and look at the threads and discussion focused on DVD_A, you will find plenty of info and opinions on this subject.


Richard, thanks for all your honesty and expertise you bring here... its really a breath of fresh air!:D
Im not an expert on audio codecs, but I'm very curious why you chose DTS masters over Dolby Tru HD???
Besides the benefit of being able to extract the DTS core, what other benefits, if any, do you feel DTS brings to the table over Dolby?

Richard,

I'd like to thank you for all your efforts, optimizing your work to the highest levels available for a given format, and most importantly... providing great content. I just wish others in the industry were half as enthusiastic about providing the best possible end product.


OTOH, I'm quickly growing tired of this format war and all the shenanigans associated with it (same can be said about the HDM forums here). I will be purchasing much less content until things become more unified, but I'm still very interested in updates on your work and purchasing your products. With that said, do you have some type of subscription list I can join to keep tabs on your work?

Thanks again for all your participation and interest in optimizing software. :)

^^^

Good idea. If they have a website, I wouldnt' mind signing up for email updates of future releases. I don't come to these sections of the avsforum so much now because the format war is pretty rediculous.

Thank you.

I think the studios are painfully aware of the fact that this war needs to end ... and very soon.

If not, both formats are in jeopardy of becoming a "niche" format like SACD or DVD-A. If it goes on too long, people will just sign-up for Verizon FIOS to download there movies at Terabyte speeds while keeping all of their library of content and box art on a server in Utah.

This is the way I see it all going anyway in the future. Fiber has been tested to 14 Terabytes ... Verizon is crrently testing in Dallas at 1 Terabyte and has tested to 4 Terabytes without find in the limit of their fiber network.

I am just happy to keep producing High Definition content as I know I will have an outlet for it moving forward ... one way or another. Therefore, I truly do not care who wins ... in the end, they will both lose if they don;t get it all sorted out soon ... and in a few years, the need for physical media will begin to erode....and they will have to scramble for something else to sell us .... and then they can fight about that as well

Sad thing is that this has nothing to do with the consumer. It has to do with Patents, Intellectual Property, Positioning, and of course .... Revenue.

I am sure these big companies could care less about what is best for the consumer or best for the marketplace or best or the future. They are so focused on quarterly performance, they will fail to pursue the best option long term to satisfy immediate needs or goals.

The best choice is not always the right choice so to speak. I am not even sure they have the vision to see what is right or what is best to be honest. And if they did, they would never admit to anyone or themselves for that matter if it did not meet the needs of their current agenda.

You know what they say ... a dog always smells his own crap first.

All I know is that for me, Content is King...:)

Richard,

I'd like to thank you for all your efforts, optimizing your work to the highest levels available for a given format, and most importantly... providing great content. I just wish others in the industry were half as enthusiastic about providing the best possible end product.


OTOH, I'm quickly growing tired of this format war and all the shenanigans associated with it (same can be said about the HDM forums here). I will be purchasing much less content until things become more unified, but I'm still very interested in updates on your work and purchasing your products. With that said, do you have some type of subscription list I can join to keep tabs on your work?

Thanks again for all your participation and interest in optimizing software. :)

Richard,

Being able to use the core on a DTS HD MA track is the reason it is the best choice for advanced audio on Blu Ray and HD DVD. I don't see why anyone wouldn't feel the same.

Just ordered this BD as a blind buy on Amazon. Seems worth trying out just from a technological standpoint.

Agreed. DTS allows all flavors of the technology in one (1) single Encode all within the same bandwidth....plus a stereo mix to boot. It is brilliant engineering from my perspective and if Dolby was not required by the spec ... I would see no reason to use it whatsoever.

I see DTS as being great for both HD-DVD and BD ... albeit, we are still working at using Lossless Audio on HD-DVD without compomising our video encodes.

Before anyone says anything, both DTS-HD-MA and Dolby Tru-HD are bandwidth hogs....so it is not a matter of Dobly Tru-HD fitting and DTS-HD-MA not fitting within the allocated bit budget.

However, DTS is more efficient and flexible in their overall approach and it sounds awesome..:)


Richard,

Being able to use the core on a DTS HD MA track is the reason it is the best choice for advanced audio on Blu Ray. I don't see why anyone wouldn't feel the same.

Richard, could you elaborate on this quote by you....
If I had to sum it up....

Dolby - Most efficient use of space with great Sound Quality.

DTS - Best approach and best use of space for ultra high fidelity sound.
-Richard J. Casey

Are you actually saying, given all things equal, DTS masters sounds better than DolbyTruHD????

Im not trying to get you in trouble, so ignore this if you must. I just find it very interesting that someone in the "know"(you), has possibly heard a difference.
This is very important, since many around here want to give up on DTS masters due to lack of players being able to handle it...
Thanks!

Richard, could you elaborate on this quote by you....


Are you actually saying, given all things equal, DTS masters sounds better than DolbyTruHD????

Im not trying to get you in trouble, so ignore this if you must. I just find it very interesting that someone in the "know"(you), has possibly heard a difference.
This is very important, since many around here want to give up on DTS masters due to lack of players being able to handle it...
Thanks!

I recall a comment he made about some engineers professing to hear a very minute difference using ultra hi-end headphones. Or something along those lines.

Not sure about PS3....supposedly, from what I hear.

However, I am sure about most other players having DTS-HD-MA capability by 4th quarter...some have already been announced.

RBFilms did indicate DTS HD MA is coming to the PS3, so hopefully the firmware update for it comes soon.

Mot sure about PS3....supposedly...I am sure about most other players having DTS-HD-MA capability by 4th quarter...some have already been announced.


Is Mot most or not??????:D

Not

Is Mot most or not??????:D

Most players being announced for 4th quarter will be able to decide and output DTS-HD-MA from what I am hearing. Some have already been announced.

All I want for Christmas for my lab is a dual format player with DTS-HD-MA so I can test HD / BD Discs using the same Audio / Video Converters in the same machine.....

LG / Samsung ... are you listening?

Oh yea, and an Aston Martin with a beach house in Del Mar or La Jolla would be nice too ... just in case Sanat is listening as well.

Richard, could you elaborate on this quote by you....


Are you actually saying, given all things equal, DTS masters sounds better than DolbyTruHD????

Im not trying to get you in trouble, so ignore this if you must. I just find it very interesting that someone in the "know"(you), has possibly heard a difference.
This is very important, since many around here want to give up on DTS masters due to lack of players being able to handle it...
Thanks!

Not sure about PS3....supposedly, from what I hear.

However, I am sure about most other players having DTS-HD-MA capability by 4th quarter...some have already been announced.

I hope you are right, I was basing it off this comment.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=908149

No worries...you will soon...and if you like the DTS-HD audio track ... you will be amazed by the DTS-HD-MA soundtrack...:)



Originally Posted by Dead.Horse
Thanks for the impressions swanlee. I'm waiting on the blu-ray and it's increased bitrate, but sadly won't be able to make use of the DTS-MA through my PS3.

people will just sign-up for Verizon FIOS to download there movies at Terabyte speedsDon't confuse the fiber bandwidth with what actually comes into your home.

While the fiber is definitely capable, the current FIOS termination device converts the ethernet to 100 base T unshielded twisted pair copper on entry to the premises.

Vern

Sorry for rambling on and on well beyond answering your question. I just like to get feedback from forum members so I can better understand what they want and what they would buy.

Well for me, I will definitely purchase any sort of fast paced material like Indy Car Racing, Moto GP, football, soccer, basketball, etc. It doesn't have to be a major event, but even if you could get us something in HD like a local B-ball tournament in NYC or some sort of racing event in NY or Canada, that would be fine. For me, it is this this type of content we should be referencing when we want to discuss the advantages/disadvantages of AVC vs VC-1, storage capacity, bitrates, and 720p vs 1080p.

BTW, I will be purchasing Nature's Journey on BD b/c I respect and appreciate what you've done. I've never operated a studio before so I cant even imagine what you're pre/post production costs ended up costing your studio when this was all said and done. I bet it was alot tho :eek:

RBFilms, I thought Chronus was excellent, do you plan or releasing the earlier works. I forgot the name "barraka" or something weird like that. I've heard it has some great footage.

Also, would be cool to hear what other ideas you guys are coming up with.

You are probably correct....but it looks amazing. Verizon FIOS Standard Definition looks better than my old Cable High Definition.

I am sure they will get the bandwidth to the set top box if and when the time comes...:)


Don't confuse the fiber bandwidth with what actually comes into your home.

While the fiber is definitely capable, the current FIOS termination device converts the ethernet to 100 base T unshielded twisted pair copper on entry to the premises.

Vern

Baraka is handled by MPI.

From what I understand, a High Definition release is in the works...well along the way actually.

We are looking for more HD Content and IMAX Features. We have some specific projects in mind...but too early to say which one will be developed next. However, there is a good chance it will be our Ultimate HD Demo Disc concept.




RBFilms, I thought Chronus was excellent, do you plan or releasing the earlier works. I forgot the name "barraka" or something weird like that. I've heard it has some great footage.

Also, would be cool to hear what other ideas you guys are coming up with.

We are looking at some Motorsports programming ... but with a twist. I do not want to put out anything that looks like you just tuned in to a cable channel....we would have to make it fr more interesting than that.



Well for me, I will definitely purchase any sort of fast paced material like Indy Car Racing, Moto GP, football, soccer, basketball, etc. It doesn't have to be a major event, but even if you could get us something in HD like a local B-ball tournament in NYC or some sort of racing event in NY or Canada, that would be fine. For me, it is this this type of content we should be referencing when we want to discuss the advantages/disadvantages of AVC vs VC-1, storage capacity, bitrates, and 720p vs 1080p.

BTW, I will be purchasing Nature's Journey on BD b/c I respect and appreciate what you've done. I've never operated a studio before so I cant even imagine what you're pre/post production costs ended up costing your studio when this was all said and done. I bet it was alot tho :eek:

Thank you for your support. None of this is ever cheap...that is for sure....and every unit is greatly appreciated....:)


BTW, I will be purchasing Nature's Journey on BD b/c I respect and appreciate what you've done. I've never operated a studio before so I cant even imagine what you're pre/post production costs ended up costing your studio when this was all said and done. I bet it was alot tho :eek:

Baraka is handled by MPI.

From what I understand, a High Definition release is in the works...well along the way actually.

We are looking for more HD Content and IMAX Features. We have some specific projects in mind...but too early to say which one will be developed next. However, there is a good chance it will be our Ultimate HD Demo Disc concept.

Sweet, thanks for the news.

Richard,


DVDPacific suddenly lists a 2-disc Nature's Journey release for both HD DVD and Blu-Ray in addition to the "standard" versions:

Differences: 1 disc versus 2, 11-6-2007 release date versus 9-11 and 10-9, $34.98 versus $29.98 retail price.

http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=827725
http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=874201

What's up with that???

Richard,


DVDPacific suddenly lists a 2-disc Nature's Journey release for both HD DVD and Blu-Ray in addition to the "standard" versions:

Differences: 1 disc versus 2, 11-6-2007 release date versus 9-11 and 10-9, $34.98 versus $29.98 retail price.

http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=827725
http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=874201

What's up with that???

Yeah, this is something I'd like to know as well as I don't want to double dip.

Richard,


DVDPacific suddenly lists a 2-disc Nature's Journey release for both HD DVD and Blu-Ray in addition to the "standard" versions:

Differences: 1 disc versus 2, 11-6-2007 release date versus 9-11 and 10-9, $34.98 versus $29.98 retail price.

http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=827725
http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=874201

What's up with that???
Richard,

Throw us, dual supporters a bone by including both Blu-ray and HD DVD in one package. I am having a tough time deciding which to buy. I'll gladly pickup a dual format package for $5 more.:)

Richard,

Throw us, dual supporters a bone by including both Blu-ray and HD DVD in one package. I am having a tough time deciding which to buy. I'll gladly pickup a dual format package for $5 more.:)

Based on the specs and DTS MA most likely coming to the PS3 I would think the blu-ray version.

Richard,


DVDPacific suddenly lists a 2-disc Nature's Journey release for both HD DVD and Blu-Ray in addition to the "standard" versions:

Differences: 1 disc versus 2, 11-6-2007 release date versus 9-11 and 10-9, $34.98 versus $29.98 retail price.

http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=827725
http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=874201

What's up with that???

DVD Empire answered my question: http://www.dvdempire.com/exec/v4_item.asp?userid=99365951051434&item_id=1368332

Thank you for your support. None of this is ever cheap...that is for sure....and every unit is greatly appreciated....:)


NO THANK YOU for pushing the envelope, I will order my BD soon.
Keep it up.

With all the claims about 192kps MP3 Files sounding every bit as as good as Lossless Audio and such, I decided to create a version that included my Home Theater Setup Disc at a special price.

I figured these folks could use some help ... and rather than assume they suffer from hearing loss, I figured I would start by helping them get their Home Theaters setup correctly ... figuring that may be the issue instead. :)

FYI - Not that this means much to anyone except perhaps to us, but we have produced and sold more Home Theater Setup Discs than anyone else in the world. We have numerous updated versions of these discs, the only with instructions in four (4) languages that I know of, and close to 4 million units sold ... albeit many were bundled with computers and hardware.

BTW - Before anyone goes bashing these products as well, please note that they are specifically focused on consumers who are not super tech savvy about Home Theater. They are simple yet contain laboratory reference quality setup features. They are by no means meant to be like Video Essentials or Avia or any other Setup Disc. They feature simple yet high quality setup tools. They are built this way by design to appeal to a different audience.

Richard,


DVDPacific suddenly lists a 2-disc Nature's Journey release for both HD DVD and Blu-Ray in addition to the "standard" versions:

Differences: 1 disc versus 2, 11-6-2007 release date versus 9-11 and 10-9, $34.98 versus $29.98 retail price.

http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=827725
http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=874201

What's up with that???

With all the claims about 192kps MP3 Files sounding every bit as as good as Lossless Audio and such, I decided to create a version that included my Home Theater Setup Disc at a special price.

I figured these folks could use some help ... and rather than assume they suffer from hearing loss, I figured I would start by helping them get their Home Theaters setup correctly ... figuring that may be the issue instead. :)

FYI - Not that this means much to anyone except perhaps to us, but we have produced and sold more Home Theater Setup Discs than anyone else in the world. We have numerous updated versions of these discs, the only with instructions in four (4) languages that I know of, and close to 4 million units sold ... albeit many were bundled with computers and hardware.

BTW - Before anyone goes bashing these products as well, please note that they are specifically focused on consumers who are not super tech savvy about Home Theater. They are simple yet contain laboratory reference quality setup features. They are by no means meant to be like Video Essentials or Avia or any other Setup Disc. They feature simple yet high quality setup tools. They are built this way by design to appeal to a different audience.

Thanks, time to switch my order :)

With all the claims about 192kps MP3 Files sounding every bit as as good as Lossless Audio and such, I decided to create a version that included my Home Theater Setup Disc at a special price.

I figured these folks could use some help ... and rather than assume they suffer from hearing loss, I figured I would start by helping them get their Home Theaters setup correctly ... figuring that may be the issue instead. :)

FYI - Not that this means much to anyone except perhaps to us, but we have produced and sold more Home Theater Setup Discs than anyone else in the world. We have numerous updated versions of these discs, the only with instructions in four (4) languages that I know of, and close to 4 million units sold ... albeit many were bundled with computers and hardware.

BTW - Before anyone goes bashing these products as well, please note that they are specifically focused on consumers who are not super tech savvy about Home Theater. They are simple yet contain laboratory reference quality setup features. They are by no means meant to be like Video Essentials or Avia or any other Setup Disc. They feature simple yet high quality setup tools. They are built this way by design to appeal to a different audience.Well Richard, RBFilms sure is nimble and can apparently "turn on a dime". I wish the majors were as responsive to what they are seeing in the market. Assuming they're actually looking at the market of course.:):)

With all the claims about 192kps MP3 Files sounding every bit as as good as Lossless Audio and such, I decided to create a version that included my Home Theater Setup Disc at a special price.

I figured these folks could use some help ... and rather than assume they suffer from hearing loss, I figured I would start by helping them get their Home Theaters setup correctly ... figuring that may be the issue instead. :)

FYI - Not that this means much to anyone except perhaps to us, but we have produced and sold more Home Theater Setup Discs than anyone else in the world. We have numerous updated versions of these discs, the only with instructions in four (4) languages that I know of, and close to 4 million units sold ... albeit many were bundled with computers and hardware.

BTW - Before anyone goes bashing these products as well, please note that they are specifically focused on consumers who are not super tech savvy about Home Theater. They are simple yet contain laboratory reference quality setup features. They are by no means meant to be like Video Essentials or Avia or any other Setup Disc. They feature simple yet high quality setup tools. They are built this way by design to appeal to a different audience.


Wow, great idea. I've been following all of the Nature's Journey and associated threads, and I'm very impressed by you and your company's work ethic and dedication to top quality output. Thank you for all your hard work, Nature's Journey BD (2-disc) is my next purchase :cool:

TheLion, is DVDpacific a legit site? I use amazon mostly but they don't list the 2 disc version.

Thank you.

To be honest...you guys are not only the motivating force driving us to do this...but you are also play a key role in driving a lot of our decisons.

Yup, even the negative comments motivate us...we love nothing more that proving our theories, products, and concepts as fact.

Well Richard, RBFilms sure is nimble and can apparently "turn on a dime". I wish the majors were as responsive to what they are seeing in the market. Assuming they're actually looking at the market of course.:):)

TheLion, is DVDpacific a legit site? I use amazon mostly but they don't list the 2 disc version.

Yes! I use it all the time.

sweet, thanks shamus

Thank you.

To be honest...you guys are not only the motivating force driving us to do this...but you are also play a key role in driving a lot of our decisons.

Yup, even the negative comments motivate us...we love nothing more that proving our theories, products, and concepts as fact.
Richard,

How about a combo Blu-ray HD DVD pack for us dual supporters? If a new packaging is difficult, you could offer a coupon or special package price for both...:D

Richard,

How about a combo Blu-ray HD DVD pack for us dual supporters? If a new packaging is difficult, you could offer a coupon or special package price for both...:DDude, I think there'd be about 5 customers for such a combo.

Where are the reviews for this? I've been waiting for them.

TheLion, is DVDpacific a legit site? I use amazon mostly but they don't list the 2 disc version.

I wouldn't call DVDPacific "legit" per se as they have a habit to ignore release dates and ship very early (hint, hint);)

Why thank you TheLion :) Great prices and bonus timing. I'll have to give them a try with Nature's Journey ;)

I never thought of that to be honest. I would imagine only a limited number of people would buy both...but it is not a bad idea. I like people who support our efforts to get deals..:) If I could take orders on my website, I would set this up....but I have not had time to get that going.

Let me see what I can do with Amazon. Theya re one of my best customers.

Rich

Richard,

How about a combo Blu-ray HD DVD pack for us dual supporters? If a new packaging is difficult, you could offer a coupon or special package price for both...:D

I never thought of that to be honest. I would imagine only a limited number of people would buy both...but it is not a bad idea. I like people who support our efforts to get deals..:) If I could take orders on my website, I would set this up....but I have not had time to get that going.

Let me see what I can do with Amazon. Theya re one of my best customers.

Rich

Thank you,

If you can set something up with Amazon, I'll buy both.:)

Just curious as to why you would want both the blu-ray & hd dvd version.

any reviews on the blu-ray version yet?

Just curious as to why you would want both the blu-ray & hd dvd version.

1. To support Richard in publishing both formats
2. To make my own comparisons
3. Because I am a high-def junkie:D

1. To support Richard in publishing both formats
2. To make my own comparisons
3. Because I am a high-def junkie:D

even if i had 2 players i dont think i'd ever buy 2. and to be honest i dont support studios publishing on both formats, unless we start seeing dual players for $499 or less.

even if i had 2 players i dont think i'd ever buy 2. and to be honest i dont support studios publishing on both formats, unless we start seeing dual players for $499 or less.

I think every studio should publish in both formats, just not package them together.

I think every studio should publish in both formats, just not package them together.

only if they do separate encodes maximizing each spec's potential like R&BFilms here is doing with Nature's Journey.

regardless, we need to make a push for single format or consumer-level priced dual format players.

Tried this with Amazon today. Very expensive. I have another website I can do this with.

Isn;t the AVS Forum going to open a store online this week? I could easily get them setup of they were interested.

Thank you,

If you can set something up with Amazon, I'll buy both.:)

Thank you...and the support actually helps. I decided today to move my Ultimate HD / BD Disc up in the schedule. Every disc sold helps.

Rcih


1. To support Richard in publishing both formats
2. To make my own comparisons
3. Because I am a high-def junkie:D

Thank you...and the support actually helps. I decided today to move my Ultimate HD / BD Disc up in the schedule. Every disc sold helps.

Rcih

Is this the "full blown" setup disk? If it's coming out before the DVE disk, I'd be very interested in purchasing it.


Oct 30
Digital Video Essentials: HD Basics

Is this the "full blown" setup disk? If it's coming out before the DVE disk, I'd be very interested in purchasing it.


Oct 30
Digital Video Essentials: HD Basics

Richard.... any more details on this set-up disc????

It is in a "Gel" state right now...as I produce content for it.

It would include a basic but complete suite of setup tools for Audio and Video.

We may even include an SPL Meter with the disc.

It will also feature Video Content shot at 8K Resolution, 4K Resolution, 1080/24p, and 1080i.
(4k & 8K down converted to 1080p)

I will include a decent amount of reference matarial with entertainment value as well.

I will also include a Tech Bonus Section which may include the following:

* A variety of sources (animated, video, film, hybrid) encoded at a averiety of bit rates using MPEG-2, AVC, and VC-1.

* A 30 to 60 second encode torture test for the various Video Encoders to chomp on at a variety of bit rates.

* Also, after recent discussions in other threads, I have decided to add an audio test using 192/24 original source material and presenting it from 56kbps (Satellite Radio) to 128kbps (MP3), 192kbps (MPs), 320kbps (iPod), and PCM Demos from 44.1/16 all the way up to 192/24.

* I will also feature PCM verses TruHD and PCM verses DTS-HD-MA presentations.


Any other ideas on what would male people want to own this?


Richard.... any more details on this set-up disc????

For once we get some honesty around here from a neutral studio with nothing to gain or lose from either side.
Mr. Casey could of simply did an identical release on both formats, but instead maxed each one out, and quite possibly, caused a lot of controversy here.... consider this one ordered!

I believe by not putting lossless on the HD DVD version, RB knew exactly wht they were doing....clever marketing :)

He's earned goodwill @ bluray.com. kudos to mr. casey.

It is in a "Gel" state right now...as I produce content for it.

It would include a basic but complete suite of setup tools for Audio and Video.

We may even include an SPL Meter with the disc.

It will also feature Video Content shot at 8K Resolution, 4K Resolution, 1080/24p, and 1080i.
(4k & 8K down converted to 1080p)

I will include a decent amount of reference matarial with entertainment value as well.

I will also include a Tech Bonus Section which may include the following:

* A variety of sources (animated, video, film, hybrid) encoded at a averiety of bit rates using MPEG-2, AVC, and VC-1.

* A 30 to 60 second encode torture test for the various Video Encoders to chomp on at a variety of bit rates.

* Also, after recent discussions in other threads, I have decided to add an audio test using 192/24 original source material and presenting it from 56kbps (Satellite Radio) to 128kbps (MP3), 192kbps (MPs), 320kbps (iPod), and PCM Demos from 44.1/16 all the way up to 192/24.

* I will also feature PCM verses TruHD and PCM verses DTS-HD-MA presentations.


Any other ideas on what would male people want to own this?

Sounds very cool. Maybe basic calibration screens (black level, color tempt, etc) as well if that doesn't add a ton of royalty costs.

Importantly make it easy to navigate. I had DVE for my DVD player back in the day and navigation was annoying to say the least.

He never said superior.

He DID say that it was a higher bitrate encode and lossless to take advantage of the higher bandwidth.

It remains to be seen whether there is a significant difference as of yet...
I don't know what universe you live in but a higher bitrate encode using the same codec is superior. Lossless is also superior to lossy. That is a fact regardless whether you consider it to be significant.

Why not stop with the weasel words and just call a spade a spade? It should not have any impact on your own self worth to just admit that the blu-ray version has a better encode.

The Condemned from Lionsgate pushes over 40Mbits\sec VC-1 and any lower would have resulted in resolution loss during the chase scenes where it reached that high because of the foreground foliage. We are not talking about 720p download content from Xbox live here but 1080p content.

Any other ideas on what would ma[k]e people want to own this?
Richard,

This sounds good already. Choice of type of audio material is critical. I'd think that purely acoustic material would be preferable. Vocal plus instrumental.

I would also suggest that you simply offer the various versions, and not give any opinions about what is best. Just let the viewer / listener make up his/her own mind. (Too many closed threads otherwise.)

Ron

We plan on producing as much of the content ourselves to keep quality high and royalties low. This will be a very expensive disc to produce...and I have no idea how many I will sell. However, I have been a Producer for a long, long time....so I am sure I will figure out a way to maximize my shooting and production efforts.

Sounds very cool. Maybe basic calibration screens (black level, color tempt, etc) as well if that doesn't add a ton of royalty costs.

Importantly make it easy to navigate. I had DVE for my DVD player back in the day and navigation was annoying to say the least.

Some sizzling Jazz is what I am thinking...some female vocal...and some acoustic...and some percussion for sure....like a Micky Hart thing.



Richard,

This sounds good already. Choice of type of audio material is critical. I'd think that purely acoustic material would be preferable. Vocal plus instrumental.

I would also suggest that you simply offer the various versions, and not give any opinions about what is best. Just let the viewer / listener make up his/her own mind. (Too many closed threads otherwise.)

Ron

We plan on producing as much of the content ourselves to keep quality high and royalties low. This will be a very expensive disc to produce...and I have no idea how many I will sell. However, I have been a Producer for a long, long time....so I am sure I will figure out a way to maximize my shooting and production efforts.

Sweet, I definitely will be interested and will appreciate it for sure :) Just waiting for that Master Audio firmware to arrive for my PS3.

Seaker level/lfe tests using all the new audio codecs would be great to see if these players are decoding it correctly!

We plan on producing as much of the content ourselves to keep quality high and royalties low. This will be a very expensive disc to produce...and I have no idea how many I will sell. However, I have been a Producer for a long, long time....so I am sure I will figure out a way to maximize my shooting and production efforts.

is the HD-DVD version just a single layer disc then?

That s a must for sure... as well as Channel ID, Reference Test Tones for Calibration, and more...:)

Seaker level/lfe tests using all the new audio codecs would be great to see if these players are decoding it correctly!

Are you asking if I will release this in HD-DVD? :D

Yes, I will ... but I will not know if it is an HD-15 or an HD-30 until I am finished designing the project and have a final bit budget.

Why do you ask?

is the HD-DVD version just a single layer disc then?

Any other ideas on what would male people want to own this?

How about split screen resolution screens, showing off 1080P vs 720P vs 480P? Something like the old moving zone plate test for bitrate comparisons would be cool too.

All interesting ideas...we will incorporate what we can. This will have other content as well so it does not get pegged as a total techno geek product...:)

How about split screen resolution screens, showing off 1080P vs 720P vs 480P? Something like the old moving zone plate test for bitrate comparisons would be cool too.

Yeah, can we have a split screen please with on the left VC-1 at 20 Mbit/s and on the right AVC at 20 Mbit/s? :D:D:D

I really like this split screen idea. Not only would it be good for convincing buyers, but it'd also be a fantastic way for those of us who already own HD media to show people in our homes what the difference really is like.

I run into any number of people who say they "can't tell the difference between normal resolution and high definition", and a direct demonstration at 480/720/1080p on the same frames (even simulated) would be helpful and enlightening in our efforts to educate the rest of the buying public.