I tried programming the remote for the SMS-1 into my universal remote

I have an MX-500

Could not get the Vol down button to work, also had problems with 4 of the presets......

and the left arrow button won't learn either...

Anyone have this happen to them ?


Thanks

Shelly

Shelly40,
I programed my old Pronto remote off the sms-1 remote using the "learn" function...all buttons are working. Didn't run into any issues.

There are many variables that come into play including the multiple pre-amplification gain controls. My suggestion would be to first ensure the SMS-1 is set to the default volume of 15; this represents a 1:1 gain. If the problem persists contact us product support at 408-465-2851 so we might drill down further.

Thanks a lot I'll try your suggestion.

Ouch!!! What happened to the price of these things? They went from about $350 on Amazon to $499. Guess I won't be getting one anytime soon.:(

I ran into a strange problem yesterday with my new SMS-1. I'm using it to EQ a SubMersive HP and after being a Behringer Feedback Destroyer owner, the SMS-1 is a really nice piece. It's much more than I ever thought. Plus I was able to get one at the $350.00 price right before they went back up. :)

Anyway, I was EQ'ing my sub, and I started to hear a low rumbling noise coming from my sub. It was not volume controlled by any piece of gear and was there no matter what I did. The only thing that made it stop with the sub still powered on was when I powered the SMS-1 off.

I've had the SMS-1 for over a week now and this rumbling noise started last night. I was absolutely sure of it. The noise is loud enough to clearly hear at my listening position 13' away.

So I decided to investigate the issue after work today. For once, I was smart about things and decided to write down all of my current settings and backtrack through the changes I made yesterday when the noise started. So the very first thing I try is the issue. THANK GOODNESS!!!!

The last thing I did yesterday was I decided to run a subsonic filter of 15Hz with a slope of -36db (I was just playing around). So the first thing I undid tonight was the slope of the subsonic filter. Every time I changed the number, the sub made a noise like it was getting feedback from each change. When I got -12db, the noise stopped. I went back to -18db and the rumbling noise came back. So I set it to -12db and saved the changes. When the SMS-1 came back on after the save, the noise started again, but now it was intermittent. So I went back in and changed the number to -6db and the sound is gone, even after the save.

I even went back in and tried the larger numbers again and the issue is very consistent. -6 is no noise, -12 is intermittent noise, and anything larger is constant noise.

Can anyone see if this issue exists with their SMS-1? Anyone ever experienced this? I'm going to call support tomorrow, but I'm curious if more than just my SMS-1 has this "issue".

Thanks.

Can you tell me what's the advantage of SMS-1 over BFD? I owned a DD-12 with built in SMS and just get a new eD A7s-650 with external FBQ2496. If look at the number of filter available, FBQ2496 had 20 filters which is very useful to tame those ringing problem. 6 filters in SMS-1 is barely enough.

Well, only advantage with SMS-1 is built-in display and come with the measurement mic but with 1/3 octave filtering you can't fine tune the settings without REW.

Can you tell me what's the advantage of SMS-1 over BFD? I owned a DD-12 with built in SMS and just get a new eD A7s-650 with external FBQ2496. If look at the number of filter available, FBQ2496 had 20 filters which is very useful to tame those ringing problem. 6 filters in SMS-1 is barely enough.

Well, only advantage with SMS-1 is built-in display and come with the measurement mic but with 1/3 octave filtering you can't fine tune the settings without REW.

I BFD I had was the 1124P. It worked well when I had it, so I take no issue with BFD's in general.

What I like about the SMS-1 over the BFD's is the fact that the SMS-1 is not a piece of pro-audio gear. The SMS-1 is an impressively built unit. It has both balanced and unbalanced inputs and outputs without needing adapters like I used to use with my 1124P. It's a nice looking piece that looks perfectly at home in my rack unlike the BFD I had, which I did my best to hide. The SMS-1 also has a button to kill the display, which I really like.

The SMS-1 has 8 filters and goes down to 15Hz which is more useful than the 20Hz limit of my 1124P. The SMS-1 is also much easier to change settings of the filters; just grab the remote and adjust away.

It also has some bass management features that I needed like high and low-pass filters and phase adjustment. Not fair to the BFD I had, but it's still there and I need it.

For the record, I don't use the SMS-1's ability to measure in-room response. I use my Room EQ Wizard setup and input the filters manually. I also believe in minimal EQ, so I get my response from just 2 wide filters for my room.

Overall I just think it's a great piece of gear and it seems to work very well. I'm a music first person, so sound quality extremely important. I use my sub for 2-channel music and the SMS-1 was able to flawlessly blend my SubMersive with my main speakers. The sound is just incredible and I couldn't be happier.

I ran into a strange problem yesterday with my new SMS-1. I'm using it to EQ a SubMersive HP and after being a Behringer Feedback Destroyer owner, the SMS-1 is a really nice piece. It's much more than I ever thought. Plus I was able to get one at the $350.00 price right before they went back up. :)

Anyway, I was EQ'ing my sub, and I started to hear a low rumbling noise coming from my sub. It was not volume controlled by any piece of gear and was there no matter what I did. The only thing that made it stop with the sub still powered on was when I powered the SMS-1 off.

I've had the SMS-1 for over a week now and this rumbling noise started last night. I was absolutely sure of it. The noise is loud enough to clearly hear at my listening position 13' away.

So I decided to investigate the issue after work today. For once, I was smart about things and decided to write down all of my current settings and backtrack through the changes I made yesterday when the noise started. So the very first thing I try is the issue. THANK GOODNESS!!!!

The last thing I did yesterday was I decided to run a subsonic filter of 15Hz with a slope of -36db (I was just playing around). So the first thing I undid tonight was the slope of the subsonic filter. Every time I changed the number, the sub made a noise like it was getting feedback from each change. When I got -12db, the noise stopped. I went back to -18db and the rumbling noise came back. So I set it to -12db and saved the changes. When the SMS-1 came back on after the save, the noise started again, but now it was intermittent. So I went back in and changed the number to -6db and the sound is gone, even after the save.

I even went back in and tried the larger numbers again and the issue is very consistent. -6 is no noise, -12 is intermittent noise, and anything larger is constant noise.

Can anyone see if this issue exists with their SMS-1? Anyone ever experienced this? I'm going to call support tomorrow, but I'm curious if more than just my SMS-1 has this "issue".

Thanks.

PM sent

PM sent

so, what's the solution for this? if there is one, please post so others may benefit.

Does the device use internal DAC's and ADC's or is everything done in the analog realm? If it does use DAC's and ADC's, which ones? I'm looking at using this to dial in my sub in a 2-channel setting. I'm using an Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp and an Emotiva ERC-1 CD player. I don't want to degrade the sound quality coming from these. For HT use, I'm using a AVR with Audyssey (Onkyo 806), and don't forsee any problems using this device for HT. All comments and suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

bump

so, what's the solution for this? if there is one, please post so others may benefit.

Just an update on this. I was basically told that my issue was never recreated at the factory (paraphrasing here). I never heard any more. However, my issue continues with weird noises and distortions coming from the sub connected to the SMS-1. I haven't had a chance to play with it to further understand the issue, but I'm hoping to some time this week. I plan to connect the unit in a different way to see if the issue goes away or not. Needless to say, at this point I'm a little disappointed. :(

Does the device use internal DAC's and ADC's or is everything done in the analog realm? If it does use DAC's and ADC's, which ones? I'm looking at using this to dial in my sub in a 2-channel setting. I'm using an Emotiva USP-1 pre-amp and an Emotiva ERC-1 CD player. I don't want to degrade the sound quality coming from these. For HT use, I'm using a AVR with Audyssey (Onkyo 806), and don't forsee any problems using this device for HT. All comments and suggestions are welcome.

Thanks

The SMS-1 functions in the digital domain, so it does an analog to digital conversion, and then digital back to analog for EQ functions. The only thing analog is the high-pass outs, but you don't need that as your USP-1 handles that part.

If you only plan to use the SMS-1 to EQ your sub, I wouldn't worry about degrading the sound quality at all. Unless of course you run into the issue I'm having a few posts up...

Just an update on this. I was basically told that my issue was never recreated at the factory (paraphrasing here). I never heard any more. However, my issue continues with weird noises and distortions coming from the sub connected to the SMS-1. I haven't had a chance to play with it to further understand the issue, but I'm hoping to some time this week. I plan to connect the unit in a different way to see if the issue goes away or not. Needless to say, at this point I'm a little disappointed. :(

My apologies to you, after seeing your post here I have gone back through my records and found that I had promised to get back to you and failed to do so. Please call me with the serial number on your unit at your convenience and so we can get your unit in for service.

How does Preset #6 work on this unit?

1. Is it a true analog pass thru (no EQ and no ADC - DAC conversions)?

2. Or, does it do the ADC - DAC conversions but applies no EQ?

How does Preset #6 work on this unit?

1. Is it a true analog pass thru (no EQ and no ADC - DAC conversions)?

2. Or, does it do the ADC - DAC conversions but applies no EQ?


Preset 6 is just another preset, factory set to flat and applies no EQ, I believe that you can change the settings on #6 so its not flat to allow you to have 6 different EQ settings if you like, but a factory restore will put it back to flat....

It is really only there to offer one a quick 1 button push ref to jump back and forth from another preset with EQ on and then to flat....

Please correct me if I'm wrong Rob...

Rob-
Can you adress the accuracy of our beloved SMS-1 below 20hz? And especially in context to Ivan's comment in the attached post (#16)?
Is the high pass really doing what is intended?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1296733

The SMS-1 has been the single most thing I have purchased and have no absolutely no regrets it sound good in my opinion below 20hz and and anywhere in between and its dummy proof. :)

Preset 6 is just another preset, factory set to flat and applies no EQ, I believe that you can change the settings on #6 so its not flat to allow you to have 6 different EQ settings if you like, but a factory restore will put it back to flat....

It is really only there to offer one a quick 1 button push ref to jump back and forth from another preset with EQ on and then to flat....

Please correct me if I'm wrong Rob...

Thanks for the reply. Is Preset 6 a straight pass thru, or does it to the ADC to DAC conversion?

How does Preset #6 work on this unit?

1. Is it a true analog pass thru (no EQ and no ADC - DAC conversions)?

2. Or, does it do the ADC - DAC conversions but applies no EQ?

The SMS-1 comes with 6 presets, four of which are preprogrammed at the factory. The setup setting is used to initially set the crossovers, slopes, phase, polarity, and volume for all presets. Then, each preset can be individually adjusted if desired. All six presets go through the ADC - DAC.

The SMS-1 comes with 6 presets, four of which are preprogrammed at the factory. The setup setting is used to initially set the crossovers, slopes, phase, polarity, and volume for all presets. Then, each preset can be individually adjusted if desired. All six presets go through the ADC - DAC.


Thanks for the reply. another question, Are the signals coming from the "THRU" output of the SMS-1 unaltered? I thought that I read that the signal from this output was unaltered, but I can't remember the source of that information.

Thanks for the reply. another question, Are the signals coming from the "THRU" output of the SMS-1 unaltered? I thought that I read that the signal from this output was unaltered, but I can't remember the source of that information.

They are unaltered as are the high pass outs. Both work with the unit turned off.

They are unaltered as are the high pass outs. Both work with the unit turned off.

Does this mean no ADC to DAC conversions?

Does this mean no ADC to DAC conversions?

There is no conversion.

I'd like some advice from the pros -

I have a dedicated HT room where I recently added a second sealed ED A7s-450 sub. (Dual 18"'s). I'm spending lots of time learning about optimizing for room response.

I have MultiEQ XT with my system, but I'd like recommendations on if fine tuning my room with Auddsesey and if that's enough for my EQ/Bass Management needs, or a more elegant solution such as the SMS-1 is helpful.

Feedback appreciated.

What I do is run the Audyssey, then follow it by tweaking the bass afterward with the SMS-1

What I do is run the Audyssey, then follow it by tweaking the bass afterward with the SMS-1

Same here. :)

Same here. :)

Another same here.

Thanks for the reply. another question, Are the signals coming from the "THRU" output of the SMS-1 unaltered? I thought that I read that the signal from this output was unaltered, but I can't remember the source of that information.

Yes, the Thru-puts are unaltered.

What I do is run the Audyssey, then follow it by tweaking the bass afterward with the SMS-1

This is our recommendation.

This is our recommendation.

You want to set up your sub first with the SMS-1, then run Audyssey. If you run Audyssey first then run the SMS-1, you can screw up the Audyssey settings. Always, set the sub(s) up first, then run the reciever EQ like Audyssey or MCACC.

You want to set up your sub first with the SMS-1, then run Audyssey. If you run Audyssey first then run the SMS-1, you can screw up the Audyssey settings. Always, set the sub(s) up first, then run the reciever EQ like Audyssey or MCACC.

I thought you were just supposed to run Audyssey first with the EQ in the system, so Audyssey could account for the time delay. Then run the sub EQ over the top of that as it had more filters available for finer tuning.

lol, I think I'm confused now!

You are able to run the Audyssey or the SMS in either order. Remember if the Audyssey was doing such a phenomenal job to begin with then your subwoofer response would already be flat and there would be no need for the SMS-1 at all. Why dial in the subwoofer with the parametric EQ then allow Audyssey to change it?

Ultimately in our testing we found running the SMS after Audyssey yeilded the best results in our room with our equipment. As always your individual results may vary.

I thought you were just supposed to run Audyssey first with the EQ in the system, so Audyssey could account for the time delay. Then run the sub EQ over the top of that as it had more filters available for finer tuning.

lol, I think I'm confused now!

Audyssey will tell you to run the sub EQ first then Audyssey. Audyssey is always the final as it sets it's filters for the whole system. You never want to change what Audyssey has set.

Audyssey will tell you to run the sub EQ first then Audyssey. Audyssey is always the final as it sets it's filters for the whole system. You never want to change what Audyssey has set.

+1. I also think it's best to run the sub eq first and then run Audyssey. Remember, Audyssey is hearing everything and making decisions based on what it hears. I don't think it's a good idea to adjust the sub's eq after Audyssey has run. I thinking having the sub eq'd first and then run Audyssey may make it easier on Audyssey and cause Audyssey to apply its' resources in other places if the sub eq is good. For my setup, that's how I do my system. But, every room and every setup is different. So, it really boils down to what works best for you and your setup. Good luck to you.

Ultimately in our testing we found running the SMS after Audyssey yeilded the best results in our room with our equipment. As always your individual results may vary.

The chicken or the egg conundrum will continue forever.

Audyssey will tell you to run the sub EQ first then Audyssey. Audyssey is always the final as it sets it's filters for the whole system. You never want to change what Audyssey has set.

Except the part where Audyssey sets the LFE gain to near -8dB on many systems.

The chicken or the egg conundrum will continue forever.

:D:D:D I agree with that too. Decisions decisions. Who's right. Who's wrong. I guess we will never know the real answer, and they said this hobby was straight forward. :)

Except the part where Audyssey sets the LFE gain to near -8dB on many systems.

I would think that means the sub's volume is too high. I would just turn down the sub volume and rerun Audyssey. For my setup, which I have 2 DD-18s daisy-chained together, and love them very much, good job Velodyne, I have my volume set on 2. Inside my pre-pro, the volume trim for my sub channel is +1. They fill my 4032 cubic feet room very, very, very nicely. The bass is full, clean, and very accurate. My wife always ask me why do I always look like the Joker. :D:D:D:D:D

I will post my chart, from my room correction system, tonight.

You are able to run the Audyssey or the SMS in either order.
Whichever order you run them in, if you're going to use them together, it's important to have the SMS-1 in the system before you run Audyssey. This allows Audyssey to account for the latency of the SMS-1's A/D D/A converters when it sets the Subwoofer Distance.

My preference, when I used the SMS-1 with Audyssey MultEQ XT, was to run Audyssey first and then clean up the resulting FR with the SMS-1. I would put the SMS-1 in Preset 6, (all filters flat), and then run Audyssey. After Audyssey XT, there were usually only some minor "tweaks" that needed clean up.

Remember if the Audyssey was doing such a phenomenal job to begin with then your subwoofer response would already be flat and there would be no need for the SMS-1 at all. Why dial in the subwoofer with the parametric EQ then allow Audyssey to change it?


You're right, Rob! The latest version of Audyssey, XT32, does such a great job, that I have removed my SMS-1 from my system. Here is the Audyssey XT32 result on my 3 Submersives:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=190454&stc=1&d=1289138850

That's just the subs, (no speakers), but with an 80 Hz crossover. Yep, that's +/-1 dB from 16 Hz to 80 Hz. No need for a parametric EQ now.

Here is the total system response:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=190458&stc=1&d=1289139103

(The rising low end is from the DSP program in the Submersives, which was turned on after running Audyssey XT32.)

Anyway, I'm selling my SMS-1 to a friend. I don't need it anymore. At one time, it was a great addition to my system, but it has been outdated by Audyssey XT32.

Craig

I would think that means the sub's volume is too high. I would just turn down the sub volume and rerun Audyssey. For my setup, which I have 2 DD-18s daisy-chained together, and love them very much, good job Velodyne, I have my volume set on 2. Inside my pre-pro, the volume trim for my sub channel is +1. They fill my 4032 cubic feet room very, very, very nicely. The bass is full, clean, and very accurate. My wife always ask me why do I always look like the Joker. :D:D:D:D:D

I will post my chart, from my room correction system, tonight.

As promised, here is my chart. It also has the rears and center channels along with sub. The red measurement, for the sub which also has the eq engaged, is what my room correction system, ARC (Anthem Room Correction), is hearing before applying any correction. The blue dashed lines is the target, and the green line is what it actually did as far as hitting the target. You will also noticed, in the other charts, that I introduced a little house curve which is kicking in around 300 - 400 Hz and the final result of the sub is factoring in the house curve. Also, all of my speakers are crossed over at 60 Hz. However, my sub is actually kicking in at 120 Hz since it doesn't have any problems at all up 120 Hz; but, ARC blends the sub, as well as the other speakers, very nicely. Anyway, enough with the typing. Here's the chart.

I ordered an SMS-1 from B&H yesterday, going to use it for my eD A7s-650 when it arrives

Whichever order you run them in, if you're going to use them together, it's important to have the SMS-1 in the system before you run Audyssey. This allows Audyssey to account for the latency of the SMS-1's A/D D/A converters when it sets the Subwoofer Distance.

My preference, when I used the SMS-1 with Audyssey MultEQ XT, was to run Audyssey first and then clean up the resulting FR with the SMS-1. I would put the SMS-1 in Preset 6, (all filters flat), and then run Audyssey. After Audyssey XT, there were usually only some minor "tweaks" that needed clean up.



You're right, Rob! The latest version of Audyssey, XT32, does such a great job, that I have removed my SMS-1 from my system. Here is the Audyssey XT32 result on my 3 Submersives:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=190454&stc=1&d=1289138850

That's just the subs, (no speakers), but with an 80 Hz crossover. Yep, that's +/-1 dB from 16 Hz to 80 Hz. No need for a parametric EQ now.

Here is the total system response:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=190458&stc=1&d=1289139103

(The rising low end is from the DSP program in the Submersives, which was turned on after running Audyssey XT32.)

Anyway, I'm selling my SMS-1 to a friend. I don't need it anymore. At one time, it was a great addition to my system, but it has been outdated by Audyssey XT32.

Craig

I was thinking about ordering one of these and using it in favor of the eq.2 that came with my A7s 450, but after reading your post I think I will just mess with the eq.2 some more and wait untill I upgrade my Onkyo TX NR807 some time in the future to a receiver with XT32. Pretty impressive chart you had there with just running the newer Audyssey version

Judd

Does SMS1 have any processor delay & if so by how much?

Does SMS1 have any processor delay & if so by how much?

While I'm not sure on how much the delay actually is, I do remember reading that you're suppose add 4ft to the sub distance to make up for the slight delay.

Just a a greedy personal bump to get this one near the top (for additional study later) :)

A greedy personal bumo - to bring this one back near the top

I sold my SMS-1. It is the most user friendly PEQ out there and I learnt a lot from the experience of owning one.

I now use an Omnimic and the EQ built into my processor.

Dave.

I might have been your buyer.
About 3 weeks ago on ebay?

I might have been your buyer.
About 3 weeks ago on ebay?

Could be, I sent it to Perth.

Dave.

Nope I am a different buyer - I'm in the Chicago area.
Sidenote: I played around with REW this past spring and eventually got results. However; the SMS-1 is awesome and way easy by comparison, and seeing results instantly is priceless!!

Nope I am a different buyer - I'm in the Chicago area.
Sidenote: I played around with REW this past spring and eventually got results. However; the SMS-1 is awesome and way easy by comparison, and seeing results instantly is priceless!!

Seeing the results instantly, even while making PEQ adjustments, sure is good.

Not only are you in a different city to my buyer, different country and hemisphere too.

Dave.

Outlaw Audio used to sell the SMS-1 and they had their own users manual. Seems the Outlaw version was in some ways better than the Velodyne manual.

Now it seems that Outlaw no longer sells the SMS-1 and I don't see their manual on their web site any more.

I was wondering if the Outlaw version is available anywhere now?

Thanks In Advance

Outlaw Audio used to sell the SMS-1 and they had their own users manual. Seems the Outlaw version was in some ways better than the Velodyne manual.

Now it seems that Outlaw no longer sells the SMS-1 and I don't see their manual on their web site any more.

I was wondering if the Outlaw version is available anywhere now?

Thanks In Advance

It shows "out of stock" for me.

It shows "out of stock" for me.

I don't even see "out of stock". The fact that the Outlaw guide to the SMS-1 also seems to be gone makes me wonder if Outlaw has dropped the SMS-1 from their line-up. It could be that sales from other vendors at $350 may have caused Outlaw to drop the SMS-1. Not enough profit.

That would be a shame as the Outlaw manual was said to be better than the Velodyne manual.

I don't even see "out of stock". The fact that the Outlaw guide to the SMS-1 also seems to be gone makes me wonder if Outlaw has dropped the SMS-1 from their line-up. It could be that sales from other vendors at $350 may have caused Outlaw to drop the SMS-1. Not enough profit.

That would be a shame as the Outlaw manual was said to be better than the Velodyne manual.

I recently bought the SMS-1 directly from Velodyne, and came across the outlaw manual online. I promptly saved a pdf version of the document on my home computer. If I figure out a way to attach the manual to a post, I can upload it here.

KS

The Outlaw manual was very good. I included it when I shipped mine to its new owner.

Dave.

+1. I ordered my SMS-1 from Amazon. The manual that came with it from Velodyne is not hard to understand but the one that was on Outlaw's web page was great. It really gave me a solid understanding on how to use every part of the SMS-1.

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.velodyne.com/pdf/sms-1/sms-1_guide.pdf

I recently bought the SMS-1 directly from Velodyne, and came across the outlaw manual online. I promptly saved a pdf version of the document on my home computer. If I figure out a way to attach the manual to a post, I can upload it here.

KS

By using Google I found the SMS-1 at Outlaw. As noted, it says out of stock. I also found the Outlaw guide and downloaded it to my computer.

Thanks to all for responding :)

Is it just me or the infinite tweaking possibilities of the SMS-1 can really drive you nuts and make u stay up all night???

I always get the urge to go back to that blue screen to improve my bass response lol

Is it just me or the infinite tweaking possibilities of the SMS-1 can really drive you nuts and make u stay up all night???

I always get the urge to go back to that blue screen to improve my bass response lol

REW is better for coming up with a filter set for the SMS-1.

In theory, using the internal display and feedback system should work but like you said, you can come up with a lot of combinations.

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.velodyne.com/pdf/sms-1/sms-1_guide.pdf

Actually this is what I was looking for:

http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/sms1guide.pdf

Apparently the Outlaws made some things easier/better :)

Actually this is what I was looking for:

http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/sms1guide.pdf

Apparently the Outlaws made some things easier/better :)

Ok...They are the same.

Hi All,
I finally got a chance to setup my SMS-1 because my Pioneer SC-37 just got back from the shop. My initial experience with the auto EQ result is...underwhelming.

After running MCACC room correction on my Pio and hooking up the RCAs from the SMS-1 for the base curve from my L/R speakers, I see the strangest thing:

I had to bump up the master volume on the receiver to near reference (-3 db) to get the right hand side of the SMS-1 curve to around 80 db. I normally listen to the receiver at -20 to -25 db and that is plenty loud.

In any case I proceeded to match the left side of the curve and had to bring the SMS-1 volume to 5.

I then ran the auto eq and it shows me the strangest curve at the 15 - 50 frequency range. There is no steep drop off at around 15, instead it's the most gradual curve. My Velo HGS15 is set to the 15 subsonic setting.

I left the EQ as is, and played movie content, and immediately felt a great loss in LFE effect. I was playing the receiver at -20 db, and had to bump up the SMS-1 volume to 10 to get some LFE.

At this time I'm not even sure what to do next as my direct sub connection sounded much better to my ears.

My room is untreated (no traps, panels etc).

Will it help to upload a pic of the EQ curve so y'all can tell me if I've missed something?

Thanks,
KS

Hi All,
I finally got a chance to setup my SMS-1 because my Pioneer SC-37 just got back from the shop. My initial experience with the auto EQ result is...underwhelming.

After running MCACC room correction on my Pio and hooking up the RCAs from the SMS-1 for the base curve from my L/R speakers, I see the strangest thing:

I had to bump up the master volume on the receiver to near reference (-3 db) to get the right hand side of the SMS-1 curve to around 80 db. I normally listen to the receiver at -20 to -25 db and that is plenty loud.

In any case I proceeded to match the left side of the curve and had to bring the SMS-1 volume to 5.

I then ran the auto eq and it shows me the strangest curve at the 15 - 50 frequency range. There is no steep drop off at around 15, instead it's the most gradual curve. My Velo HGS15 is set to the 15 subsonic setting.

I left the EQ as is, and played movie content, and immediately felt a great loss in LFE effect. I was playing the receiver at -20 db, and had to bump up the SMS-1 volume to 10 to get some LFE.

At this time I'm not even sure what to do next as my direct sub connection sounded much better to my ears.

My room is untreated (no traps, panels etc).

Will it help to upload a pic of the EQ curve so y'all can tell me if I've missed something?

Thanks,
KS

Pictures will help

K

Go into the SMS-1 setup menu and turn off the crossover settings and change the subsonic filter to zero. Your receiver also is doing crossover and the sub has a built in facility for a subsonic filter to protect itself....and you don't want to do each twice. Then try rerunning the SMS-1 auto calibrate, then MCAA.

Jim,
I had disabled the SMS-1 crossover prior to running EQ, based on the instructions in the Outlaw guide. However I did not change the subsonic filter to 0. Will definitely try that and also see if I can upload some pics as well.

Thanks,
KS

Hi All,
I finally got a chance to setup my SMS-1 because my Pioneer SC-37 just got back from the shop. My initial experience with the auto EQ result is...underwhelming.

After running MCACC room correction on my Pio and hooking up the RCAs from the SMS-1 for the base curve from my L/R speakers, I see the strangest thing:

I had to bump up the master volume on the receiver to near reference (-3 db) to get the right hand side of the SMS-1 curve to around 80 db. I normally listen to the receiver at -20 to -25 db and that is plenty loud.

In any case I proceeded to match the left side of the curve and had to bring the SMS-1 volume to 5.

I then ran the auto eq and it shows me the strangest curve at the 15 - 50 frequency range. There is no steep drop off at around 15, instead it's the most gradual curve. My Velo HGS15 is set to the 15 subsonic setting.

I left the EQ as is, and played movie content, and immediately felt a great loss in LFE effect. I was playing the receiver at -20 db, and had to bump up the SMS-1 volume to 10 to get some LFE.

At this time I'm not even sure what to do next as my direct sub connection sounded much better to my ears.

My room is untreated (no traps, panels etc).

Will it help to upload a pic of the EQ curve so y'all can tell me if I've missed something?

Thanks,
KS

This is what mine looked like. I've since reversed the phase which greatly improved parts of the curve and let me reduce the eq to nearly all flat levels. Don't have a current pic though.


235562

Hi All,
Apologize for the delay, but I finally managed to use my limited understanding to perform some manual EQ configuration. Please see attached pics showing the EQd curve as well as the settings screen.

Key Notes:
1) The SMS software version is 2.1.4. I manually updated the firmware before doing any EQ
2) No matter what I try, I'm not able to rectify the crossover issue that you can see on the curve
3) My SMS-1 crossover is set to OFF and my SC-37 is set to 80 Hz
4) Based on an earlier suggestion, I set the SMS-1 subsonic filter to 01 because my Velo HGS15 is set to 15
5) Based on the Outlaw manual suggestions, I set the polarity to "-", while my HGS15 is set to 0 Phase. The curver is definitely better than what I got with the default "+" polarity on the SMS-1.
6) After running EQ, I have not (and am not planning to) run Pio MCACC again. Let me know if this is required.
7) Lastly, I have liternally no flexibility to move my Sub in the room
8) The room is carpeted, but otherwise has no Diffusers, Traps, or other treatments
9) My Front L/R speakers are around 10 feet apart and are slightly "toed in"
10) The subwooofer is between my FL and the C speakers
11) The SMS-1 Mic is directly set on the couch so the head of the mic is at ear level in the listening position

The table below shows the Parametric settings for the 8 bands (sorry the columns are not aligning properly):

Parametric EQ Settings
Freq Band Default Freq Level Freq Q
1 20 4.5 15 9.2
2 25 -5 21 2.1
3 32 0 30 5.8
4 40 -4 40 4.3
5 50 -11.5 43 2.8
6 63 3 46 5.5
7 80 2.5 60 6.2
8 100 6 65 4.3

Questions to the experts:

1) Am I on the right track?
2) If so, how can I, if at all, smoothen the crossover range dip/peak?
3) If not, what am I doing wrong?

Bottom Line:
1) With this EQ setting, I'm already liking how the SMS-1 has really tightened the LFE for movies. It hits hard, goes low, and is simply authoritative.
2) I would really like to smoothen the curve between 63 - 80 hz for music listening (and so I can sleep at night)


Thanks in advance for your feedback.

KS

KS

That dip at the crossover bothers me.

Did you say that using "-" polarity improved the dip??????? Usually, the polarity should be "+".

If you move the mic left or right a few feet, does that dip go away? Stay away from sidewalls.

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the quick reply. Please see my comments below.

KS

That dip at the crossover bothers me.

Did you say that using "-" polarity improved the dip??????? Usually, the polarity should be "+".]



If you move the mic left or right a few feet, does that dip go away? Stay away from sidewalls.

KS>> The "-" did not drastically improve the dip per se, but the crossover curve looks better with "-" than it did with "+", if that makes any sense


KS>> My couch touches the rear wall, and so the mic is close to the rear wall. Per your recommendation, I tried a couple of things:
1) Moving the mic left to right (not anywhere close to the side walls) did not help with the dip
2) However, moving the mic forward 6-8" and slightly lower than listening position flattened out the curve at crossover point. Please see attached image after simply moving the mic forward with my hand

Not sure what this finding really means though.

KS

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the quick reply. Please see my comments below.



KS>> The "-" did not drastically improve the dip per se, but the crossover curve looks better with "-" than it did with "+", if that makes any sense


KS>> My couch touches the rear wall, and so the mic is close to the rear wall. Per your recommendation, I tried a couple of things:
1) Moving the mic left to right (not anywhere close to the side walls) did not help with the dip
2) However, moving the mic forward 6-8" and slightly lower than listening position flattened out the curve at crossover point. Please see attached image after simply moving the mic forward with my hand

Not sure what this finding really means though.

KS

Looks like you should move your listening position about 6-8 inches forward. You should leave the mic 6-8 inches forward and raise it so that it's back at ear level. If you get the same result, then that definitely confirms that you should move your listening position forward 6-8 inches if you can. I keep telling everyone that bass is like a FM Radio Station. You can be driving along and listening to the radio, and the station is really clear. However, once you come to a complete stop at the red light, you begin to hear a little static; but, once you inch up, the static completely goes away. Bass is the same way, it's a matter of inches to make it really dial in.

Looks like you should move your listening position about 6-8 inches forward. You should leave the mic 6-8 inches forward and raise it so that it's back at ear level. If you get the same result, then that definitely confirms that you should move your listening position forward 6-8 inches if you can. I keep telling everyone that bass is like a FM Radio Station. You can be driving along and listening to the radio, and the station is really clear. However, once you come to a complete stop at the red light, you begin to hear a little static; but, once you inch up, the static completely goes away. Bass is the same way, it's a matter of inches to make it really dial in.

Point well taken. Before I do that, does this mean that there is no point in trying to tweak the SMS-1 further to correct these types of oddities?

Thanks,
KS

When I see a dip at the XO freq, first thing I look at is phase. Try adjusting the phase on the back of your sub and watch what the SMS-1 graph does on your display.

Dave.

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the quick reply. Please see my comments below.

KS>> The "-" did not drastically improve the dip per se, but the crossover curve looks better with "-" than it did with "+", if that makes any sense

KS>> My couch touches the rear wall, and so the mic is close to the rear wall. Per your recommendation, I tried a couple of things:
1) Moving the mic left to right (not anywhere close to the side walls) did not help with the dip
2) However, moving the mic forward 6-8" and slightly lower than listening position flattened out the curve at crossover point. Please see attached image after simply moving the mic forward with my hand

Not sure what this finding really means though.

KS

Looks like your stacking the eq.

I'm considering purchasing the SMS-1. However, I'm not sure if I would like it or not.

A little background; a little over a year ago I purchased an SVS EQ-1. While it seemed to do a good job giving a flat response, I really didn't like what I heard, or more accurately, what I didn't hear (low bass seem to disappear). Even playing good classical recordings the low bass didn't sound anything like I hear in a live concert; removing the EQ-1 sounded closer to "live" to my ears.

Here's the before and after sub measurments as reported by the EQ-1

236188

236189

I would have thought that I would have preferred a perfectly flat frequency response, but after my experience with the EQ-1, perhaps the reality is that I just don't like a flat bass response. Since the EQ-1 doesn't offer any manual or user customized settings, I returned it.

I seems that I may prefer a "house curve" over a flat response. Looking at the before graph, it kind of looks like that's what I have. The bump around 20hz doesn't really bother me; it gives a little extra oomph to movies with low bass effects:D).

This brings me to my interest in the SMS-1. It seems from what I've been reading I can set my own preferred curve, for example, if I wanted a smooth rise from the crossover frequency down to the lowest frequencies (am I pretty much there already?)?

Might the SMS-1 be appropriate for me, or am I more likely to be disappointed based on my experience with the SVS EQ-1? Am I better off with another product would a sub EQ just be a waste of money in my situation?

For reference I'm using a single SVS 16-46PC+ powered cylinder sub with no EQ, low pass set to 80hz.

I would greatly appreciate feedback.

Thanks.:)

When I see a dip at the XO freq, first thing I look at is phase. Try adjusting the phase on the back of your sub and watch what the SMS-1 graph does on your display.

Dave.

Topend - I tried setting the Phase to 180 on the sub and switched polarity back to "+" on the SMS-1. No luck with the XO dip.

Bill - Can you tell me how to avoid stacking the EQ? Are you looking at the levels and the Q values?

From what I read, stacking EQs is bad for the Sub so I definitely don't want to do that. Just need to know how to avoid it while EQing.

KS

The dip you have may not be crossover related, it could simply be a null. If it is there is little you can do beyond moving the sub to different positions. Cheer up, I think all of us have seen far worse response graphs :)

JP

I'm considering purchasing the SMS-1. However, I'm not sure if I would like it or not.

A little background; a little over a year ago I purchased an SVS EQ-1. While it seemed to do a good job giving a flat response, I really didn't like what I heard, or more accurately, what I didn't hear (low bass seem to disappear). Even playing good classical recordings the low bass didn't sound anything like I hear in a live concert; removing the EQ-1 sounded closer to "live" to my ears.

Here's the before and after sub measurments as reported by the EQ-1

236188

236189

I would have thought that I would have preferred a perfectly flat frequency response, but after my experience with the EQ-1, perhaps the reality is that I just don't like a flat bass response. Since the EQ-1 doesn't offer any manual or user customized settings, I returned it.

I seems that I may prefer a "house curve" over a flat response. Looking at the before graph, it kind of looks like that's what I have. The bump around 20hz doesn't really bother me; it gives a little extra oomph to movies with low bass effects:D).

This brings me to my interest in the SMS-1. It seems from what I've been reading I can set my own preferred curve, for example, if I wanted a smooth rise from the crossover frequency down to the lowest frequencies (am I pretty much there already?)?

Might the SMS-1 be appropriate for me, or am I more likely to be disappointed based on my experience with the SVS EQ-1? Am I better off with another product would a sub EQ just be a waste of money in my situation?

For reference I'm using a single SVS 16-46PC+ powered cylinder sub with no EQ, low pass set to 80hz.

I would greatly appreciate feedback.

Thanks.:)


Anyone?:(

Isn't the after measurement one that's calculated as opposed to real?

Isn't the after measurement one that's calculated as opposed to real?

Good question. I thought that it was the measured response, but you could be right. I don't know enough about how exactly the SVS EQ1 works to say for sure. I do know that I did not like the sound (or lack of) after the EQ calibration, and since the SVS EQ1 offers no manual/customized adjustments, I returned it.

I'm trying to get a feel if the SMS-1 might work better for me, or if I would just end up with a curve that looks alot like what I already have.

I thought posting here I might hear from users that use some sort of "house curve" that may give me some idea if the SMS-1 would be appropriate for me.:)

Anyone?:(

yes, it will do what you describe. You have 100% total control of the FR.

Using the parametric EQ: frequencies, boosts/cuts, Q values (wide or narrow/ notch)

Plus, phase angle, rolloff slopes, preset volumes, and others. You can adjust low pass Xover or turn it off when used with a AVR's own Xover (recommended).

There are 6 customizable presets. For example, when you make changes in the EQ'izer, you can apply them globally in "setup" mode or make them apply just to a specific preset. The same is true for all the other settings, including phase.

The way the GUI works is sort of DOS-like but is highly customizable.

As long as you stay with Manual mode and don't use the Auto-EQ modes, you can create various target house curves using Velodyne's Action, Jazz/Classical, Rock, Movie presets OR you can EQ them globally and set up #5 as your custom house curve. #6 is a defeat mode, bypassing EQ'er & settings.

I combined the use of the AS-EQ1 with the DD sub's built-in EQ'er (same as the SMS-1), leaving my 1-4 presets as they were pre-EQ1 and used #6 to bypass everything the Velodyne did so all I got was the AS-EQ1's adjustments. That way, I could do a/b comparisons. I could also have used the Velodyne system to create my own house curve on top of the AS-EQ1 by using preset 5. I just haven't taken the time to do that yet since I only setup the EQ1 between Xmas & New Years ;)

If you didn't like the EQ1 because you couldn't adjust what it did, the SMS-1 will give you all that flexibility.

Both are excellent bass EQ systems, each has its own strengths & weaknesses. The main limitations with the SMS-1 are it doesn't EQ in the time domain (decay times), only 1 position, and the time it takes....I could spend several hrs tweaking it. It's not an auto-pilot device. It CAN be (auto-EQ) but not too many recommend the auto-EQ mode over manual; it's main use is for beginners just starting out.

I liked the Velodyne system a whole lot, it did a good job. My reasons for getting the EQ1 was to see if there was something even better & to see if an Audyssey approach would work better with 2 nulls above the Xover I couldn't smooth out with the Velodyne.

yes, it will do what you describe. You have 100% total control of the FR.

Using the parametric EQ: frequencies, boosts/cuts, Q values (wide or narrow/ notch)

Plus, phase angle, rolloff slopes, preset volumes, and others. You can adjust low pass Xover or turn it off when used with a AVR's own Xover (recommended).

There are 6 customizable presets. For example, when you make changes in the EQ'izer, you can apply them globally in "setup" mode or make them apply just to a specific preset. The same is true for all the other settings, including phase.

The way the GUI works is sort of DOS-like but is highly customizable.

As long as you stay with Manual mode and don't use the Auto-EQ modes, you can create various target house curves using Velodyne's Action, Jazz/Classical, Rock, Movie presets OR you can EQ them globally and set up #5 as your custom house curve. #6 is a defeat mode, bypassing EQ'er & settings.

I combined the use of the AS-EQ1 with the DD sub's built-in EQ'er (same as the SMS-1), leaving my 1-4 presets as they were pre-EQ1 and used #6 to bypass everything the Velodyne did so all I got was the AS-EQ1's adjustments. That way, I could do a/b comparisons. I could also have used the Velodyne system to create my own house curve on top of the AS-EQ1 by using preset 5. I just haven't taken the time to do that yet since I only setup the EQ1 between Xmas & New Years ;)

If you didn't like the EQ1 because you couldn't adjust what it did, the SMS-1 will give you all that flexibility.

Both are excellent bass EQ systems, each has its own strengths & weaknesses. The main limitations with the SMS-1 are it doesn't EQ in the time domain (decay times), only 1 position, and the time it takes....I could spend several hrs tweaking it. It's not an auto-pilot device. It CAN be (auto-EQ) but not too many recommend the auto-EQ mode over manual; it's main use is for beginners just starting out.

I liked the Velodyne system a whole lot, it did a good job. My reasons for getting the EQ1 was to see if there was something even better & to see if an Audyssey approach would work better with 2 nulls above the Xover I couldn't smooth out with the Velodyne.

Thanks for the great information.

In your opinion, does my "before" measurement in my ealier post look like a "house curve" (ie - gentle curve upward as frequency decreases)? Or does it look like there are significant improvements that the SMS-1 bring to that curve (enough to justify spending $350?)? If it matters, I let my processor (Anthem AVM20) handle crossover duties; low pass filter is set to 80Hz.

Thank you again for your information and help.:)