Does any one the differences between the hr-20 and hr-21 recievers/dvr available from DirectTV?

I am close to making a decision on getting Direct Tv hd service and the rep onthe phone said that they have tow models of recievers but the hd-21 wasn't avilable yet.. Is there any reason to wait for the hd-21 ??


Thanks

Don't get the HR-21. It's probably going to cost as much as the HR-20 to get, and the only difference is that the HR-21 doesn't have an OTA digital tuner. That means you're forced into however much DirecTV wants to compress your local HD channels, then get it via satellite, which means if picture quality sucks, tough luck -- you have no alternatives within the machine. In addition, you, through that HR-21, won't be able to get any SD subchannels that may be available over-the-air (and through cable, incidentally), including local weather subchannels.

The hr21-200 Pro is not a replacement for the hr20 but a high end pro version of the HD DVR.

-considered a Pro version HD DVR
-Black/Rack mountable
-1080P
-built in fiber HDMI port for long runs
-larger hard drive with double the storage capacity of the HR20 (about 100 hours of MPEG-4 HD).
-no HD off air tuners
-more money than the hr20
-projected delivery November

Any idea if the HR21 is going to have an improved season pass maximum? The max for the HR20 is 50. That's a pretty small number for anyone will little kids and a new season around the corner! Also do you have an idea about cost for the HR21?

I think the OP is confusing the H20 and H21 non DVR models with the HR20 HD DVR and the HR21 Pro HD DVR.

The new H21 is basically the same as the H20, with the addition of an ethernet port and no ATSC tuner.

its difficult to get good information out of the DirectTV people but they ahve tried to tell me that there are no technical differences between the hr20 dvr/ reciever the hr2100 dvr/reciever and hr2700 dvr reciever.

The hr-21 dvr/reciever (they cant tell me if its a pro or not) is 1080p allthe others are 1080I which I think is enough for me to wait for the new reciever....even though they say they don't know when they will have them.

Are there places these are being sold on the open market insdead of leasing and having to put up with the two year comitment? I'd consider that depending on the price.

thanks

There is no way around the 2 year commitment regardless how you get the receiver.

The HR21 is a rack mount pro model, there is more about it here.

http://dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=97714&highlight=HR21

The model numbers for the DVR's are HR20 and HR21. The -xxx added to the model number designate the manufacturer.

"There is no way around the 2 year commitment regardless how you get the receiver."


I'm workingform information from customer service reps but I asked directly from two different reps and got the answer that if I own the equipment outright that I am not subject to the two year commitment. If I lease the equipment from them I am subject to the two year commitment. It dosen't sound like that was your understanding mjones? What are others experiences with this?

Also since this discussion has become one of HD DVR/recievers. I may ask it on that more apporpirate board (didn't see that board when i started this thread)

"There is no way around the 2 year commitment regardless how you get the receiver."


I'm workingform information from customer service reps but I asked directly from two different reps and got the answer that if I own the equipment outright that I am not subject to the two year commitment. If I lease the equipment from them I am subject to the two year commitment. It dosen't sound like that was your understanding mjones? What are others experiences with this?

Also since this discussion has become one of HD DVR/recievers. I may ask it on that more apporpirate board (didn't see that board when i started this thread)

Prior to 3/1/2006 you could buy a D* box outright. As of that date, D* switched to a lease plan with a 24 mo. commitment. Because there are owned boxes in use that were bought before 3/1/2006, the CSRs have to explain both situations.

Dana

Mr. Jones - It appears that there is a HR21 model that is not rack mountable (i.e. rack ears). Someone posted on a thread on dbstalk.com that they received a HR21 in gloss black. The pictures posted do not show a rack mountable model.

Mr. Jones - It appears that there is a HR21 model that is not rack mountable (i.e. rack ears). Someone posted on a thread on dbstalk.com that they received a HR21 in gloss black. The pictures posted do not show a rack mountable model.

You must mean this thread. "Just got a HR21-700." http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=100595&highlight=Just+got+a+HR21-700

Dana

dtv is pretty confusing. I thought one of the benefits of dtv was being able to buy your own stb & save the monthly lease fee but seems that isn't the case anymore.

so the hr21 does have some features that the hr20 doesn't most notably no ota input anymore on the hr21.

by 1080p does that mean it upconverts everything to 1080p the way some high end hdmi recivers do? if so that's pretty huge. I guess I have to see if I'm going to make use of ota or not.

being dtv isn't allowed to offer my rsn in comcast sportsnet philly & I heard there is no CW Philly hd either (smallville etc) I may want the ota feature of the hr2 & try an ota hd antenna.

I do need a second dtv hd dvr for another room where I prob need use ota so figured I'd do the hr21 there but its a 720p/1080i tv so that wouldn't be put to full use.

again I guess I have to see if I'm going to want to try an ota hd antenna in fam rrom & if so maybe will upgrade my 42" 720p plasma in bedroom to a 1080p lcd for use with the hr21 but I'm leaning towards getting it for main room larger tv & just use the hr20 in bedroom.

then there is the non dvr hd box I'm getting which I'm assuming is the h20. I guess atsc tuner is more useful on the h20 then losing that for the ethernet port of th h21.

that is the only difference there?

this again depends on which room I'm putting the dvr box. h20 with atsc tuner (why can't it have qam also?) would be best for kitchen where as if I put the hd box in office where I have ethernet cable behind tv then the h20 would be better.

prob go with h20 hd box in kitchen & just sd box in office though maybe later could go h21 there & might try the hr21 in fam room for 1080p & use the hr20 i.n bedroom.

so where can the hr21 be bought?. dtv acts like its available at best buy but they don't have it.

The HR21-700 can be preordered through solidsignal.com There was confusion by some bloggers/editors that announced that the HR21 was available at Best Buy. Not true. The model that is available at Best Buy is the H21 (non-DVR HD receiver).

The HR21 cannot be ordered through Directv...yet.

Again, 1080p is not available on the HR21-(any version), another mistake by some on the web (the original HR21-Pro picture did show 1080p)

Here is dbstalk's First Look at the HR21-700 (http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=1218628&postcount=1)

ok yeah that clears some things up. Now i'm wondering what the difference between teh HR20-100 and HR20-700 are.

Because I received an HR20-100 from D* when I thought I was going to get an HR20-700 and saw my BB has that model.

isn't the 700 newer and better? dtv cust. service supervisor told me that th e 700 doesnt' have an ethernet port so some ppl actually ask for the 100 but he pretended not to know waht about the 700 was newer/better.

seems that when you get the stb from dtv though, its just luck of the draw random and the cs guy just said its based on availability which i take to me just whtever they have.

you can't request anything.

had to get the first hd dvr through dtv for installation because otherwise my initial free installation would have just been teh hd and sd box i was getting and they would have to come back to do the 2 dvrs. as it is they only did 1 hd dvr (the 20-100) the 1 std box and the 1 hd box and have to come back to do the second hd dvr.

the cs guy told me that they now can install 2 dvr at same time and said it could have been done at once so he was waiving some install fees that otherwise would have been charged for the second install.

speaking of the hd box, its an H21 and i forget the difference between teh h20 and h21 hd box but i remember something about one having an atsc tuner (the 20 i think) and the other hving an ethernet port (the 21 i think)

i hope for the second hd dvr i get a hr20-700 or hr21 as supposedly a couple ppl has actually recieved them but not sure how considering like you said its not even avilable yet and dtv tells you they dont have them.

install wasn't too bad, i think fios install was worse , longer and more days plus with several diff guys.

i got lucky with one good guy that found the easiest way to do it all and install the massive 5lnb slimline dish. i guess i can check the box it came in cus i kept it and i'm assuming i got the newest dish for all the hd mpeg4 and all that but what is the model or type dish that is preferred?

i thought there was a 7lnb but maybe not.

dtv is going to take some getting used to. the hd chans aren't grouped which i knew going into it and to go into the guide and select just the hd channels works but then if you pick one you have to do the guide all over again to go back into them. where as on comcast and fios they are grouped.

I like how it says HD though for the program if its airing in hd as even on the hd chans not everything is so. Thing is ToonHD (cartoon network) it never says HD for the listing but it looks a lot better then the non HD Toon chan and the hd version displays in 1080i as i leave the stb setting on native.

no comcast sportsnet philly on dtv which sucks but saw some of a flyers game on HDnet i believe and it looked pretty damn great HD. But then other chans including showtime hd didn't look that great and i'm thinking overall sd and even surprisingly a lot of the hd doenst look quite as clear as fios was, i hate to say it. i see more noise in the pic i think with dtv.

also a shame is there is no clock readout on the front of the box like the moto boxes that comcast and fios use.

i know i have to get used to it and it will mostly just be different with many things better and some things i'm used to not as good or missing.

there is no Live button on the remote so if you rewind live tv and you want to go live during a commercial or something you have to ffwd till it catches up with live?

is there a swap button to go to the other tuner when recording 2 shows. so far i've just been turning the chan so the message pops up the 2 shows recording and i note the chan of the other one i'm not currently on and then exit and type it in then i can just do prev chan to switch between the 2 recording shows.

we'll see what hd dvr box i get for the second one. was going to buy the second one myself and sounds like no hr21 yet anyway and only thing was worth it was prob for 1080p upconversion which sounds false but i could at leat guarantee an hr20-700 if i buy myself but getting through dtv allowed the super to apply some discounts for the second install so i'll have to just take what the availability is but i'm hoping to get something diff then teh hr20-100 just to try something different then teh 20-100 we have on other tv.

Now i'm wondering what the difference between teh HR20-100 and HR20-700 are.That was explained in a previous post. the -x00 suffix at the end of the model number denotes the manufacturer.

-100: Made by RCA (the original manufacturer of D* receivers)
-600: Made by LG
-700: Made by Pace

Different manufacturers' models often run different software, but the functionality and GUIs are the same for the most part.

There are add'l suffixes that denote other mfgs like Hughes, Samsung, etc., but these three are the only ones I know for sure. Someone over at dbstalk.com might know more...

There's a lot of confusion about the HR21 because of the pictures of the HR21 PRO.

The HR21-700 is basically an HR20-700 without the OTA tuner, and in black. It has been announced but is not yet available.
The HR21 PRO is as rick describes, it is a DVR designed for commercial users - rack mountable, fiber HDMI, 1080p upconversion, extra storage capacity, no OTA. More expensive than an HR20 or HR21, but no idea how much. Supposed to be available later this year but we shall see.

If yyou order a DVR from DirecTV the installer will bring an HR20-100 or an HR20-700. When the HR21 is available, these will just go into the normal supply stream and the installer will bring an HR20 or HR21 depending on what is in stock at the time.

The HD receivers (non-DVR) are the H20-100, the H20-600 and now the H21-200 (no OTA). Again, you will get whichever receiver the installer happens to have on the truck.

...When the HR21 is available, these will just go into the normal supply stream and the installer will bring an HR20 or HR21 depending on what is in stock at the time. Even in markets with no HD LIL?

Just came from a BB in Plano Tx. They had a stock sticker on the shelf for
a HR21-700 price 299.00 but no stock. The clerk said they have received a
couple of them but they sold quick. They do have a lot of the H-21 black
receivers in stock.

ps: The manual for the HR-21 is now available at Directv.com/manuals.

Mike

Bestbuy in South Florida had a shelf sticker marked hr700-250 attached to the hr20 unit. No stock also. But the tag definately didnt say hr21 or hr20. Weird

ok so basically you don't want the hr21 or h21 as they are exactly the same as the hr20 & h20 but without ota tuner.

speaking of which I just figured out how to have the receiver look for what it calls of air channels (ie. 6-1 that a qam tuner in a tv would find) so it found all those ota or off air sub channels but when go to one it just says searching so I may have to call up & see how I get these working now that im able to view them on the guide.
also during a heavy downpour which I guess dtv considers "severe weather" we had dtv service outage. this on second night of dtv so it gives me some concern as your going to be watching t v when the weather is bad not vice versa so it kind of sucks. plus all they gave me was a 33¢ credit so its not worth it. id rather have uninterupted tv service during a downpour/storm he the 33 cent. does this mea when were snowed in during a blizzard we won't have dtv service? but on a nice clear sky day that were outside the picture will be great.

anyway back to receivers it sounds like maybe the hr21 pro is worth giving up the ota tuner for 1080p upconversion but the regular hr21 or h21 are not worth as you gain nothing but lose ota.

sucks I got an h21 as our one hd box.

got an hr20-100 as one of our hd dvr so I don't feel bad that its not a 700 (pace?) and is a 100 (rca) if the only diff is manufac. though the 600 (lg) is prob best or whichever model # the samsung is.

well see what one we get for the second hd dv but it sounds like any hr20 is fine & again you actually don't want an hr21.

nothing I can do about the h21 hd box we got and now we won't get the ota chans on that one but its just bedroom (moving to kitchen or home office once we get second hd dvr for bedroom) so I guess not a big deal.

somewhat interested in the 1080p upconversion of the hr21 pro though and will have to see how much it is when available.

but how what would I do with the hd dvr it would replace which is technically leased from dtv? just give them back the hr20 even though I aid $299 for it?

so yeah sucks I got an h21 with no ota but luckily the hr21 isn't out yet so ill be fine whichever manufac (-x00) hr20 I get.

only thing cool about the h21 is its black but so is the sd receiver so bleh.

is there really nothing better about the hr21 &h21 over the hr20 & h20? and they actually worse cus you lose ota. maybe the hr21 has a larger hdd. but I still wouldn't want it.

again the hr21 pro might be worth it for 1080p upconversion if it does help all the sd & hd chans look better because I have to admit tht so far right now the dtv sd & hd chans both don't look as good as the fios ones did.

as much as thought that comcast looked just as good as fios on both sd &hd, I have to sadly admit that for the most part sadly dtv sd &hd chans don't look as good as fios or comcast.

maybe I am just seeing a lot of the old mpeg2 chans as I've seen a couple hd chans that looked better but yeah overall sadly both sd & hd look better on comcast & fios compared to dtv.

dtv should look better though after I get the newer set in fam room isf pro calibrated but its 67" so it shows the flaws in pq.

despite the signal loss in rain storm on second night, seemingly lower pq compared to my other 2 tv providers & other minor ways dtv seems inferior im still going to stick with it as there is a lot that is better then both the other 2 main choices in my area which I've had both.

plus I know dtv is going to take some getting used to especially dvr wise as its considerably different while fios wasn't a bigh change from comcast because they bothe use the moto stb's.

plus dtv should be getting even better next month with vod and then more hd chans in dec. on top of what is already considerably more then the other 2.

the best buy that I work at just received 4 HR-21's last night they were black with no OTA tuner but advertised 90 HRs of HD record time instead of the 50 that I believe the HR-20 has. We are going to try to get one activated and demo'd today. ill post any other finds after work.

my install was 2 weeks ago .
i got the HR20-700 .does it have the over the air tuner?
how big is the harddrive?

my install was 2 weeks ago .
i got the HR20-700 .does it have the over the air tuner?YES.

Go into the setup menu and tell the HR20 you have an OTA antenna. Enter ZIP codes for up to two OTA markets and you should be all set (assuming you've connected an OTA antenna suitable for your market (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453241) to the ANT-IN jack on the back of the HR20).

YES.

Go into the setup menu and tell the HR20 you have an OTA antenna. Enter ZIP codes for up to two OTA markets and you should be all set (assuming you've connected an OTA antenna suitable for your market (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=453241) to the ANT-IN jack on the back of the HR20).

thanks

I had a D* installer out today to install my new HD-DVR. He was scheduled to come out last Saturday, but I got an 11th hour call saying they had run out of HD-DVRs. So I rescheduled for today. Today's installer told me when he got here that they had received 20 palettes of "these new fellers" on Thursday, and mine was only the second one he'd installed. It was a glossy black, brand new HR21-700. He left here a few hours ago, so I haven't had a ton of time to play with it. I never had the HR20, so I don't know exactly how to compare them, but I'd be happy to answer questions about it for those interested.

I had a D* installer out today to install my new HD-DVR. He was scheduled to come out last Saturday, but I got an 11th hour call saying they had run out of HD-DVRs. So I rescheduled for today. Today's installer told me when he got here that they had received 20 palettes of "these new fellers" on Thursday, and mine was only the second one he'd installed. It was a glossy black, brand new HR21-700. He left here a few hours ago, so I haven't had a ton of time to play with it. I never had the HR20, so I don't know exactly how to compare them, but I'd be happy to answer questions about it for those interested.
Does the HR21-700 require two cables in to utilize both tuners? I thought that I read somewhere that the turners in this receiver can be utilized with only one cable going in. I have been reading about a single wire multiswitch (SWM) solution, so maybe I've got this mixed up. I would appreciate your thoughts relative to this receiver's performance. I am thinking about getting one as well.

The HR20 and 21 have the same requirements. Each needs two inputs from a traditional dish or multiswitch or one input from the single wire multiswitch when it becomes available.

getting second hd dvr tomorrow. so it sounds like the hr21 is available now & has more hd space for dvr.

is that the only thing it has over the hr20? so where as at first I thought you don't want the hr21 as you lose ota, for ppl that don't use an ota antena anyway the more recording space may be worth it.

why did a dtv cs rep walk me through adding the ota chans and act like they would come in when they don't unless you set up an ota antenna. im not sure what all is involved in an ota antenna or where id put it. can it be indoors? I prob don't really have room for it anyway and if it has to be ouside that means drilling another hole in wall for a 3rd coax. if I could put it on floor behind my tv maybe it would be worth it but prob won't work. what do you get anyway just those sub channels like 6-1 etc? I get those through coax straight to tv with comcast & yeah its great for getting some ota hd without a stb but what's the benefit of it with an hd stb? I don't think anything is in hd if its not on the reg chan. is te hd sometimes betterquality on the ota subchan then the hd counterpart?

even so I don't think I can be bothered with buying and setting up an ota antenna and would rather have the larger recording space of the hr21 then if im not going to make use of the ota input. if I don't add an ota antenna & therefore can't view these subchannels then I don't want to see them on the guide. how do I get rid of them?

so now I really hope I get an hr21 tomorrow as the gloss black will go with gloss black tv & ps3 and black reciever upconvert dvd player & black xbox 360 elite (i have the white faceplate on it though for 2 tone & to go with my white deftech speakers) so yeah id like the gloss black & extra recording time/space & prob won't make use of the ota anyway if it requires an extra expense of ota hd antenna & install.

plus I have the one hr20-100 already if I ever did need to d ota & the silver of that will go in bedroom with silver tv & components.

but again looks like no way I can request what box unless I call my local installer & ask if they even got them in yet.

fingers crossed but if not I'll just wait for he hr21 pro which will be even more worth it with 1080p upconversion on top of the extra recording space & gloss black finish. I just wish the dtv stb's/receivers had a digi display to show chan # and time.

when the hr21 pro does come out & I got one then what can you do with your old hd dvr receiver? you can't sell it can you cus technically its leased from dtv? so you just lose the $299 you spent.

as far as my h21 (non dvr) we got, sucks its not glos black & doesn't have the benefit of larger hdd as its not a dvr, so basically no apparent redeeming quality over the h20 & you actually just lose ota, but again prob not going to use it anyway & the black will go good in kitchen with black & silver lcd its used wth. although aren't some ota hd antennas small & in kitchen we might have a higher shelf above tv to put it. then you just connect it to tv with coax. the antenna doesn't have to be outside right?
can't do it with the h21 anyway & prob don't need in kitchen on smaller tv anyway.

additional ota hans would be good on fam room tv but I guess still only worth it if somehow they look better then the other ones if I get another hr20 (which is likely) then I may want to try just to make use of the feature the hr21 can't do since ill mostly be pissed I didn't get one for the gloss black & extra recording time.

but if ota hd really looks better then dtv hd chan because of compression or something then why have dtv? just for the extra hd chans I guess. but comcast & fios don't seem to compress the hd chans as much. so a I understand all the older hd chans on dtv are mpeg2 and don't look as good? will they upgrade those to mpeg4 like all the newer hd chans are?

if dtv compreses the picture and as I've heard it explained that comcast & fios don't so basically you get the quality that is being broadcast where as dtv changes it. they way I heard it explained was that in a way the hd gets downgraded slightly (compresed) compared to comcast or fios but the sd gets upconverted in a way? but so far both the sd & hd don't look quite as good as comcast or fios on 67" tv which really shows any flaws.

getting isf pro calibration in a couple days which im hoping helps as I think it will be a fairly significant improvement as the out of box picture/colors were never that great or at least not as good as the previous year model of same tv. but in the end its just improving the tvs picture not the source. basically I just seem to see more "noise" & compression in the dtv picture over comcast & especially fios which is supposed to have the better sd & slight better hd pq. I never thhougt it did so much as we had a good comcast pq but maybe sd was sligh better on fios. but either way im concerned it seems like dtv I not quite as good sd or hd pq as the other 2. and we keeping comcast for now for all standard & basic cable chans plus ota chans through qam on a tv with no stb. plus get all standard & basic on an analog crt tv (will eventualyy upgrade that room to an hdtv with qam)through comcast in another side room with little to no use so no reason to pay for a stb. kept on hd dvr stb with comcast for basement home theatre which is used more for gaming on 61" (while majority tv & movies on the 67" in fam room, though the basement ht kind of has the stronger sound despite being 6.1 as opposed to 7.1 of fam room & supposedly not quite as good of a receiver & more or less equal speakers but they're yama in walls & maybe they are somehow slight better then my def techs & why basement sounds better plus shape of the room/walls etc). will come in handy for local sports only on comcast sprtsnet philly (not on dtv) in hd but its expensive to have dtv with 2 hd dvr, one hd & one sd stb plus comcast with even one hd dvr ( as comcast charges more per mo for an hd dvr). would get rid of the dvr but comcast is getting tivo software on their dvrs soon & I record some stuff on the comcast box though I guess the only thing comcast has to dvr that dtv won't now is my rsn csn phila & maybe mojo though dtv will prob have that soon unlessthats another comcast owned chan that they block dtv from getting. all I know is I hope dtv gets g4 tech tv in hd before comcast even though they own that chan too.

its nice the sd recievers are free with dtv as I don't think comcast or fios aren't and prob why my cheap bro in law with only sd tvs prefers dtv ( he got $50 for referring us & so do we which is nice) but for us with all hdtvs (except one which were upgrading) it means nothing & instead of figuring out how to connect those 2 rooms to dtv feed & put sd stb id rather leave them on comcast & get all digi & ota hd through coax & the qam tuner of the tv which I guess you can't do/get with dtv. in fact since im prob putting the hd box in the kitchen 26" lcd now instead of the home office 42" as we watch the kitchen tv more while ofice is just to put some news or sports on while on the pc & its facing the other way so you have to spin around in chair to see so you wind up looking at the pc the whole time anyway (ideal with pc is having tv in same line of sight as monitor either next to or ideally larger tv then monitor in distanc & slight off to one side like a computer desk you sit at facing towards tv instead of with back to tv like my setup but couldn't really do it the other way)

orig I tried upgrading the kitchen 26" lcd to the newer year versions of it but both were not as good pq (i think comcast at the time) through coax believe it or not so I kept the old one. when we got fios I switched that tv to fios & got a sd box free I think (but it might have only been for a year which we didn't keep fios for a year as replacing it wth dtv & luckily no fios etf as we keeping internet & phone)
I put the fios hd box for office tv which is an ed plasma which has no built in tuner so needs a stb or something anyway. it looks really good with hd but again doesn't get watched enough to be worth paying for an hd box but I put the comcast & the fios one there anyway & kept the kitchen lcd (with no qam) on coax & the sd box with fios as you don't get any chans really through coax with fios unless you have qam. even with qam I think you get more chans through coax with comcast then fios as ghey have analog for one thing. what I should have done is kept kitchen tv on comcast & upgraded it to one with qam tuner as weve been happy with that on another smaller lcd.

when dtv setup the kitchen tv there were scrolling line or 2 rolling up the screen with both sd & hd box. he though it migh be because it was old coax (rg59 as opposed to rg6 I believe?) so luckily the lines from the dish were coming down right outside that wall so he drilled hole & tied in from that but the 2 diff sd box still got th line rolling up screen using both svid & composite/rca but ironically not with just coax input from dtv sd box to tv and not with hd box & hdmi cable. either way I have 2 coax now behind kitchen tv but no need for dvr there bu maybe can make use by getting qam capable tv for that spot & switching the one coax to the comcast feed. that would give us ota hd plus our rsn in kitchen & then could maybe just do the free sd receiver from the dtv coax just for more chans. how else could I make use of 2 coax outputs in kitchen if we don't need dvr there? should have gone qam there by now just for some hd in kitchen as though smaler its still an hd tv & good to make use of it. would have been interesting to see what chans we got through coax with fios & compared to comcast (which weknow from another tv) but I guess the ota hd would have been about same just no analog chans with fios and I wonder if having the coax go through the sd stb would stop you from getting the ota hd chans through qam? if so then you prob wouldn't even want the sd stb, but if not that would be great cus you'd get your ota hd with a slight better then coax connection with svid or rca from the sd box plus you get all the extra digital channels from the box that you don't get with coax straiht to tv . but will prob just do the hd box with dtv in kitchen for now as the whole point of dtv is all the hd chans & we don't really watch in office so can only justify a free sd box there. but for the sake of getting our rsn (without having to go up or down a floor) & freeing up the hd box for elsewhere might make use of the 2 coax in kitchen & do qam with comcast on one& just sd box with dtv from the other going svid or rca from box into tv leaving the reg ant in coax on tv free for the comcast feed. but wait a min if the whole point of doing ota through the stb is so you get the chans in the guide and don't you get same chans through qam connection from cable provider as you do with an ota antenna? if so, then couldn't I just plug the comcast coax feed into the ota/air input of the dtv stb & get all my comcast digi chans including csn phila & ota hd from comcast in the dtv stb guide? that would rock & then wouldn't have to install an ota antena which im not even sured get comcast sportsnet philly with ota antenna anyway. but yeah aren't qam & ota more or less the same just with qam you need to bave an actual cable subscription feed coming through. so ota antenna is cheaper cus one time fee & instal but no monthly. prob get much more chans with coax cable subscrip feed to qam tv plus same ota hd & subchans.

problem is to try that in kitchen I guess I need a qam capable tv? or does the stb with air input act as the same as qam tuner? so you can just plug the comcast cable fed coax into the ota input of the dtv stb instead of coax from ota antenna? if so that would be great cus we wouldn't even need to get a new qam capable tv for kitchen.....problem now is we have the stupid h21 dtv receiver with apparently no ota input, argh!

does the sd box have an air input? cus if so then that would work maybe & would just mean no dtv hd but wed get csn & ota hd through the comcast fed coax in dtv stb guide & on same tv source input (svid). then would free up the hd box for elsewhere & wed still have some hdin kitchen. if sd box does have air input & that does work using comcast coax feed then I could drop the h21 hd box (with no ota input) run a comcast feed in office & do the same thing with dtv sd receiver.

ill check the sd box now. yes the d12-300 has an off air input! so now if I can just get the dtv guy to switch the line going to that first coax to come from a comcast feed & plug into air input on sd box then im thinking the box acts as the qam tuner? so tv doesn't need it & the comcast fed coax acts as the ota antenna? so I don't need to buy and install/place one of those & should get all comcast standard & basic chans we get analog&digital including comcast sportsnet phila (not on dtv) in the guide of the dtv sd receiver?! (just no csn in hd I guess as only way to do that would be with a comcast hd box.) but that way I wouldn't worry about ota in the fam room as it would require running a 3rd coax (comcast fed) in wall or ota antenna with coax from that. but now ill def want the more recording space of the hr21 there.

if dtv can't give me an h20 hd stb instead of the h21 with no ota we have then im just going to downgradd it to a free sd box & run a comcast fed coax to a free dtv sd box in ofice also.

anyway sorry if post was too long, and here's hoping for an hr21 for our second hd dvr tomorrow, that the comcast fed coax to dtv sd box air input works same as qam tuner or ota antenna without actually needing either of those and that we can switch the h21 to an h20 with ota for our one non dvr hd box (or ill downgrade it to a free sd box) and I guess will be fine with the hr20-100 we already got as our first sd stb.

oh and actually we could make use of ota input in fam room & even bedroom when the single lin multi switch becomes available to allow one coax into dtv hd dvr. then we would just have to reconnect that original in wall coax back to the comcast feed and plug it into air input of dtv hd dvr reveiver.

the supposed extra hard drive space for dvr of the hr21 over hr20 is nice (allegedly 90 hrs compared to 50) but you can just use an ext usb hd for more space (though I think not both internal & ext. at same time & have to reset box to switch)

the gloss black color of hr2 being the only other feature besides larger hdd for dvr over the hr20 is just a cosmetic one so yeah I may not want the hr21 at all now if I can make use of my comcast subscription for ota with it coming from a second coax into air input of hr20 and get my rsn of csn philly on the dtv stb guide.

prob won't get an hr21 tomorrow anyway and again maybe that's better. in fact for bedroom since I have to make a new hole for second coax for dvr, ill just wait for single line multiswitch to run comcast to that rooms dtv stb into air input.

but for fam room since its right on other side of outsidee wall where some dtv lines are available I could jus make a second hole for third coax there and change the feed of the orignal coax in wall to comcast so well get ota hd sub chans & csn phila. etc on our main larger tv now without having to wait for single line multiswitch.

if it is possible to use the stb with air input as the qam tuner & and the comcast fed coax acts same (or better gegting more chans obviously) as an ota antenna then yeah it might be worth drilling hole fr third coax to do it on main tv.

either way I def want to do it in kitchen to make use of second coax as we don't need dvr there.

omg I just realized there is another coax in kitchen not to far away. if its still active (we never used it as its for putting tv on kitchen counter that e didn't need/want to do)and on the comcast line then I might have a long enough line of coax to reach the dtv sd box & try it.

Best Buys in Dallas now have the HR-21 in stock, I bought one Saturday,
it is scheduled to be installed along with a dish upgrade Thursday.
This receiver does have the SWM input, I hope the installer has the new
SWM. I guess I will attach my OTA to the TV, as a backup for my local
HD channels.

Mike

to the author of the post above, what is the sWM?

Got my 2nd HD dvr today and it was another HR20-100. kind of sucks especially now finding out that an ota antenna wont give me anything I dont already have with the 5lnb slim line hd dish. a backup of locals that you already have in hd.

And according to the installer though not confirmed but anyone else really is the fact that you can't plug the coax from a cable subsribed line like comcast into the off air input of the dtv receiver and get the channels in the guide so that sucks.

the installer today when he had to run a new line for the second dvr used a 2 in 1 cable so that leaves my existing interior wall coax available to receive the comcast cable from. But I guess it will have to go directly into the tv. Problem is that existing coax was already switched and reconnected to the dtv feed and before that it was on fios, so it may be hard to find where that line is to connect to my comcat feed.

But now I wish the first installer of first hd dvr box had done a 2 in 1 line and kept my original existing interior wall coax free. Tomorrow a field supervisor is coming, basically a install tech that has been doing it for 2 years or more so they are higher up but can acutally do work. I'm hoping to have him change the line coming in from outside for first hd dvr in main room to a 2 in 1 freeing pu the orig coax which im hoping to have him find and connect it to my comcast feed. that may be what they wont do but it was their guy who unneccesarily disconnected it and i have a running work order with a resolution specialist that knows this so hopefully it will get reconnected.

that main room tv has a qam tuner I believe (Samsung HLT6756, i'll have to check) so i will get all the comcat standard and basic chans plus ota hd through the qam and of course comcast sportsnet philly missing from dtv. NOt sure if CSN comes in hd through coax with qam. doesn't come in hd ota does it? but having it even in sd will be better then not at all. and if i wanted to i could always bring up the comcast hd dvr box from basement for that tv but qam is good enough.

its just the point if i'm going to have a new dtv line run it mine as well be a 2 in 1 coax and leave my existing free to use to make use of my comcast. I'd rather do that then an ota antenna anwyay as it gets more channels obviously. And being I then cn't use and dont need the ota input of the dtv receiver, that makes me want the extra recording space and gloss black color of the HR21 but of course i got another hr20-100.

the tech said you can get a new one swapped out if almost anything goes wrong with it which from my exerience it seems they last a year with heavy use and recordings and deleting before they go on the fritz so well see, if i can get one sooner then that. didn't sound like my local place really had any yet anyway.

I still want to try plugging the comcast fed coax into the off air input of the hr20-100 just to confirm it doesnt work and if not then yeah i really have no need for the hr20's ota input and would really rather the extra hdd space of the hr21.

meantime, the tech tomorrow has to neatne up the lines at the dish, as the orig installer who did the dish and first hd dvr was a sub contracter anddid the lines sloppe cutting the corner over the edge of the roof and it looks bad. he also used bathroom white cault which was still wet and soft several days later and wan't the right stuff to use. they supposed to use the clear silicone to seal the holes they make so all the holes hav to be patched.

the guy today had it but he was all impatient and rushed it and didn't follow up and seal the previous guys stuff. it wanst' even that hard of an install but he was bitching and complaining on the phone and wan't that good but at least he had better materiails including 2 in 1 coax that the first guy didn't have.

so hopefully tomorrow the guy changes main tv to 2 in 1 coax, and reconnects my comcast feed to the orig coax, neatens up the cables at dish and seals all the holes with silicone. Then have to either connect previous fios line in 4th room which i never got done on initial install as part of free 4 room install. prob having him runa new line there as it prob will need to anyway as its in front of hosue and dish and most othe connections are in back. that will again leave my orig coax for comcast which also has to be found though so its going to be a pain to find all these lines and find them a place to connect into the comcast feed. but its worth for csn and for the qam capable tvs so i'll get the ota hd and su b chans etc. without an ota hd antenna. plus with comcast all the analog chans too so way more chans then with an ota antenna and no need for the extra hardware.

hopefully can get tech tomorrow to connect the kitchen and/or the bedroom tv also spare orig available coax to comcast feed. but the kitchen i know doesnt' have qam and id otn think the bedroom philips pf9630 (i think) does either, but will prob eventually upgrade both those to a newer tv most of which have qam which will give me more use out of the comcat coax feed direct to those tvs in those spots. paying for 2 tv providers will at least get my money worth.

and will not miss out on comcast sportnet now that dtv is missing.

then i'll work on swapping the one hr20-100 for an hr21. with any luck they can bring one when they bring the hd box to upgrade my one std which they said they'd do now but i wonder if its going to cost me more in thelong run. its prob just free upgrde for now but will charge me more per/mo for it where as the std box they said is free but not sure if its free equipment or free per/mo. prob just free equip so will get teh hd box free ($99 value) which they do anyway for new cusstomer. if it costs more per/mo then i'll just have to downgrde or get rid of it.

still wish the dtv recieves had a digital display to show chan and a clock on the front. got used to those moto boxes with digi display from comcat and fios and came in handy all 4 rooms they were in as our main or secondary clock.

hopefully everythign gets resolved and squared away finally with my install tomorrow and then with any luck they bring me an hr21 on wed when they bring an hd box to swap fro the sd receiver.

i'm still goign to try plugging comcat fed coax into off air input on the stb to see what it does.

It is my understanding that the new SWM will allow you to run 1 wire from the
multiswitch to the receiver. This single wire is then split at the receiver like a diplexer setup to activate both tuners in the DVR I understand that the SWM will work with both the HR-20 and HR-21 dvr's. I don't know if the SWM's are available yet, I understand that they have been used mainly in test setups. I guess I will find out Thursday when they come to do my upgrade. I sure hope so, because running a second wire to my receiver is a real bit*h.

Mike

The SWM has limited availability at the moment, should be available more widespread in the near future.

"And according to the installer though not confirmed but anyone else really is the fact that you can't plug the coax from a cable subsribed line like comcast into the off air input of the dtv receiver and get the channels in the guide so that sucks."

That is correct, it's an ATSC only tuner. You need NTSC to get analog cable channels and QAM for digital cable channels.

PS - You may get better responses keeping your posts short and to the point, not many people will take the time to read long posts.

Only one cable from the SWM to an HR20/21 with no splitter is required. One of the ports is labeled FTM or SWM and will serve both tuners from an SWM. Splitting is only required to serve more than one box.

yeah sorry for long posts. dtv stuff has been a lot to digest and figure out the best plan of action/ cable layout for my complex setup especially with trying to get a dtv hd dvr & leave a spare coax for comcast.

supposedly old tivo dtv boxes could accept a separate cable tv feed. prob were just atsc & ntsc before qam was common for digital and now they just took out the ntsc, but who knows.

they did away with it just as they doing away with ota input.

don't really need ota with hd dish. id really rather have the hr21 now for larger hdd.

got a nasty attitude rude testy tech this morning which was disturbing especially in front of wife & baby but luckily he left & later got a decent guy who ran a 2 in 1 line in frm outside in place of the one & reconnected my old orig coax to the comcast feed for main fam room tv which has qam.
nevertheless comcast sportsnet phila isn't in hd through coax even with qam and of course its not in the dtv guide as its connected to tv but its better then nothing I guess.

prob not even worth conecting other 2 tvs that have a spare open coax to the comcast feed as they don't have qam. maybe when I upgrade them to qam tvs. but in the end I think the only channel on comcast from coax with no box that dtv doesnt have is csn phila and again its not hd so its not that worth it.

still have to get install of 4th receiver/room

will be a shame I had two new lines run in 2 places leaving the orig coax for comcast when the singlewwire multiswitch comes out but I wasn't waiting for that to get dtv with dvrs.

also according to the one tech, on demand may require the hr21 & use the ethernet port. that doesn't make sense to me as then they,ll have to give everyone the hr21. plus the hr20-100 has an ethernet port & most ppl don't have ethernet cable from their router ran through walls to behind tv. I have 2 tvs with ethernet ran to wall plate for ps3 & 360 mostly. but if dtv techs think they go crazy running a second coax for dvrs then imagine if they have to run ethernet for everyone. plus not all ppl have broadband and a router. phoneline won't be fast enough for hd on demand.

I think the picture is slight better with the 2 new lines run rather then one new & one old. the pq seems on par now with comcast & fios & sometimes some chans seem better. nust be the mpeg4's which the tech said the old mpeg2s will switch over to mpeg4 eventually.

heroes on abc? had the worst audio sync I've ever seen but will have to find out if that was on every provider or a dtv dvr problem. most of the time there is just slight audio lag or vice versa at times on dtv but then other shows (live or dvr) are fine. might be the source so I don't want to attempt adjusting audio sync option of my hdmi receiver.

once get this 4th receiver/room installed ill be happy to be done with dtv install and will hopefully get an hr21 to replace one of my dvrs.

besides the receiver talk I guess my posts would have been better for a dtv installation & setup thread.

VOD or DOD, DirecTV on Demand, is via the Internet so use of the Ethernet port is required for it to work. It can be done wirelessly by using a wireless router or access point in the network and an Ethernet to wireless bridge or gaming adapter on the HR20/21. I've had it for a while and have had no problems with it. See http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=130

Forgive my ignorance here, but OTA is short for "over the air" ??? So are you saying you need another antenna with the HR21 to get local channels or something? Sorry, I'm sure this is basic stuff, but I've always just breezed by OTA without ever stopping to figure out what it is.

Forgive my ignorance here, but OTA is short for "over the air" ??? So are you saying you need another antenna with the HR21 to get local channels or something? Yes to the former. The HR21 does not have an OTA tuner. It will only receive locals DirecTV provides over the dish.

Thnaks for the reply! So, if I get my locals from DirecTV now (with my regular DVR and satellite) when I upgrade to HD, I will get the same locals and would not need an OTA tuner in my DVR? Thanks for the help!

Not all locations that get SD locals get HD locals. Also, the HD channels are fewer in number. Plug your zip in at http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/packProg/localChannels.jsp?assetId=900018 to see your situation.

I just had D* installed. Dumped Time Warner. I received the HD DVR H21 for free (new customer).
It seems to work great. It is very fast and has great settings you can adjust. I am in the San Antonio Texas area. So no complaints...actually it seems to be one of the best DVRs I have used.

Is it possible to record to a conventional vcr/dvd from these HD units. I assume it is possible with the SD channels, maybe the HD channels are downconverted like on the Panasonic DMR-EZ47V.

Thanks

Sure. The composite outputs always output 480i regardless of the resolution setting on the HDMI and component outputs.

I got a HR21 installed yesterday and it doesn't say that it records for 90 hours. It says 50 hours (HD) and 200 hours (SD) and it says on the side of the box that the hard drive is 320 GB. Also, it's not rack mountable.

well whats the hard drive of the HR20-100? 300gb. so at least you got 20 more gb. the rack mountable is the HR21 pro which isn't available yet

thats the one that may have 1080p upconversion.

How did you get your HR21 box to give the recording time? I can't find that anywhere in the menus.

Thanks,

JCM

How did you get your HR21 box to give the recording time? I can't find that anywhere in the menus.

Thanks,

JCM

The record times are listed on the box it came in.

It is my understanding that the new SWM will allow you to run 1 wire from the
multiswitch to the receiver. This single wire is then split at the receiver like a diplexer setup to activate both tuners in the DVR I understand that the SWM will work with both the HR-20 and HR-21 dvr's. I don't know if the SWM's are available yet, I understand that they have been used mainly in test setups. I guess I will find out Thursday when they come to do my upgrade. I sure hope so, because running a second wire to my receiver is a real bit*h.

Mike


Please let us know how your setup goes. I have the same problem. I only have one wire running to the receiver and running a second one would be impossible. I am hoping the SWM works or that it will eventually work. I guess I will be waiting to install until I know it will work for sure. Maybe by then Direct TV will get off of their high horse and quit charging $199 for the Hd DVR like Dish Network and cable companies.

Yes to the former. The HR21 does not have an OTA tuner. It will only receive locals DirecTV provides over the dish.

What are our options if we want a OTA tuner in STB for HD programing via DirecTV.

I'm considering ordering a new HD-DVR from Direct. Can I use one reciever to watch two TVs in HD and if so, on different channels? Thanks for the feedback.

What are our options if we want a OTA tuner in STB for HD programing via DirecTV.

This is the very reason why I am not going to switch to DirecTV. I live in the Syracuse DMA and the local channels are delivered from DirecTV in SD. I can get all the local HD channels via OTA, but the HR21 takes this option away. Is there a way to request [demand] that the DirecTV installer deliver the HR20 model DVR? I am really surprised they didn’t consider this fact when upgrading the inventory to a model without OTA support. I guess I get to stick with TWC crap.

Had to cancel because I cannot receive local channels in HD and the HDDVR they had would not accept an OTA antenna ?????
Was told they could not give me a definate timeframe as to when a HDDVR that will accept an OTA antenna would be available !!!
Also was told if I had 4 receivers in the house that they would have 4 separate cables from the dish to each TV, so I guess that means no splitting.
I guess I'll have to stay with Comcast.


:(

Had to cancel because I cannot receive local channels in HD and the HDDVR they had would not accept an OTA antenna ?????
Was told they could not give me a definate timeframe as to when a HDDVR that will accept an OTA antenna would be available !!!
Also was told if I had 4 receivers in the house that they would have 4 separate cables from the dish to each TV, so I guess that means no splitting.
I guess I'll have to stay with Comcast.


:(

That blows. I live in Utah and it snows in the winter so OTA is mandatory for me. I have 1 OTA antenna in the attic as a back-up and one on the roof along with the DirecTV dish. the OTA in the attic in connected directly to the HDTV so I lose DD 5.1 if I have to go to that.

When are they making the older STB obsolete? Is the there a drop dead date?

the OTA in the attic in connected directly to the HDTV so I lose DD 5.1 if I have to go to that.If your TV has a built-in optical audio output, you can run a Toslink optical digital audio cable to an AV receiver and get OTA stations in 5.1.

I cancelled my D* install, as the tech was in my yard, because he brought an HR21 with no OTA input. I spent a hour on the phone with the install service people, D*, and the supplier warehouse. To make a long story short, D* will not garauntee which receiver you will get. If your local warehouse does not have any HR20s you can't get one. The digital tuner in the HR20 costs D* extra. They wanted an ethernet port on the HR21s for the on demand service. Evidently, you can't get both. It chaps my a$$ that you pay the same $199 for either receiver and the new one does less.

I cancelled my D* install, as the tech was in my yard, because he brought an HR21 with no OTA input. I spent a hour on the phone with the install service people, D*, and the supplier warehouse. To make a long story short, D* will not garauntee which receiver you will get. If your local warehouse does not have any HR20s you can't get one. The digital tuner in the HR20 costs D* extra. They wanted an ethernet port on the HR21s for the on demand service. Evidently, you can't get both. It chaps my a$$ that you pay the same $199 for either receiver and the new one does less.

What is the difference in the digital tuner between the 21 and 20. I though the only difference was the OTA tuner and the color. Or is the OTA tuner the digital tuner you are talking about?
Why don't you just get Dish Network. I understand that their boxes are much better and they have the OTA tuner. And you only need one wire to run a DVR. I decided not to go with Direct TV also because I don't have the ability to run a second wire for the DVR. I also decided not to go with Dish Network because they don't carry my local channels in HD. I guess I am stuck with Charter...at least for a while.

No more HR20-700s are being made. Those in the stream have been recalled to be used as replacements when customers' HR20s fail.

Wow... that's news! Where did you hear this? I'm about to upgrade to an HD DVR and was wondering what they'd give me... ? Love to know more about this...

I just got a further update. It's only the HR20-700s that are stopped. HR20-100s are still being made.

Wonder which one they'll throw my way... part of me wants the newer HR21, especially when I hear all the complaints about the HR20... but with any new technology comes bugs that are probably worked out a bit better in the HR20.

So which receiver is better the HR21-700 or the HR20-700? do both have the ethernet port for the VOD?

The digital tuner in the HR20 costs D* extra. They wanted an ethernet port on the HR21s for the on demand service. Evidently, you can't get both.That's a bunch of BS. The HR20-700 was the first D* DVR to support D* On Demand, while the HR20-100 and HR21 are still waiting for their support.

Would it be technically possible for D* to provide a dongle to attach to one of SAT inputs that would contain an ASTC tuner and a connection for an ASTC antena so that the HR21 could receive and display OTA channels?

It has been said that D* has a solution for those who have the HR21 but are dissatisfied that it does not have an OTA tuner. A dongle would seem to be the least costly and efficient way to do this if it is technically feasible.

Anyone have any ideas about the feasibility of such a dongle?

fafner

Wonder which one they'll throw my way... part of me wants the newer HR21, especially when I hear all the complaints about the HR20... but with any new technology comes bugs that are probably worked out a bit better in the HR20.

what are the main complaints with the HR20?

For those of us with no MPEG4 locals, the 21 series will prevent us from recording network shows in HD. To make matters worse, one of my local channels is not compatible with the tuner in my Philips HDTV and I can only receive it using my D* STB. I may need to risk chapping the wife and run to my local retailers in search of another HR-20 before they sell out.

I recently purchased an HR21 and a Samsung LNT4069 from BB.

I am having a problem getting a steady picture on HistoryHD and other channels. Pixelation occurs regularly; and the audio also fades in and out.

I noticed that when I had the same channel on my H20 with Fujitsu Plasma,in another room, the signal from the HR21 was not consistent; while the H20/Fujitsu was.

When I switched channels on the H20/Fujitsu, the HR21/Samsung signal was okay.

I am not sure if this a HR21 problem or a Samsung problem; but it sure seems like the receiver is not locking in on the station.

I checked signal strength meters; and all transponders (5 LNB) were in the high 80s to high 90s.

One more thing. I am using a Zinwell splitter to send D* feeds throuhout the house. I have been using this for over a year with no problem with the H20s.

Perhaps the HR21 receiver is not as good at picking up the sat. signals?

Any ideas, comments or suggestions?

Confused.

If changing the channel on the other receiver has an effect, the problem probably is not the HR21. The 5LNB dish takes more power than previous dishes to run so many LNBs so the cable spec was changed to all copper from the typical copper coated steel center wire RG6 cable. The Zinwell WB68 multiswitch, it's not a splitter, is not powered but also takes power to work. The HR21 may be on a longer cable run. If the HR20 is tuned to a channel on the same transponder, they would combine to power the LNB but, if the HR21, was the only tuner powering the LNB it could come up short. If that is what is going on, replacing the WB68 with a WB616 powered multiswitch or adding a power inserter will fix the problem. http://www.sonorastore.com/510.html It's marketed to allow running two WB68s in parallel without incurring power problems but works fine to add power to one. Just connect the four DBS terminals to the four WB68 inputs and connect the four cables from the dish to the four LNB terminals as shown in the PDF link but leave out the splitters and second WB68.

Had DTV installed on Sat, with the HR21 in the main viewing room. Sunday HD football wasn't great as with any rapid movement I had pixellation... annoying. The set was taking a 1080i signal, and I couldn't change it ( I guesss I could have had I disabled the receiver from this format. Ended up watching on non-HD station.

Any ideas on how to get a smoother picture for next Sunday?? ( have a panny 50" plasma..1080i )

So if I go with DTV and the SR21, I need suggestions on how to bring in my local stations in HD (OTA antenna). If I did away with the DVR, is there another way to 'record' programs ??

Is a dongle the same as a di-plixer ????

If changing the channel on the other receiver has an effect, the problem probably is not the HR21. The 5LNB dish takes more power than previous dishes to run so many LNBs so the cable spec was changed to all copper from the typical copper coated steel center wire RG6 cable. The Zinwell WB68 multiswitch, it's not a splitter, is not powered but also takes power to work. The HR21 may be on a longer cable run. If the HR20 is tuned to a channel on the same transponder, they would combine to power the LNB but, if the HR21, was the only tuner powering the LNB it could come up short. If that is what is going on, replacing the WB68 with a WB616 powered multiswitch or adding a power inserter will fix the problem. http://www.sonorastore.com/510.html It's marketed to allow running two WB68s in parallel without incurring power problems but works fine to add power to one. Just connect the four DBS terminals to the four WB68 inputs and connect the four cables from the dish to the four LNB terminals as shown in the PDF link but leave out the splitters and second WB68.

Thanks for the info.

It appears that both the WB616 and the power inserter do the same thing; add power! Since I don't need 16 outputs, is the power inserter my best choice?

Since my post, I replaced the HDMI cable provided with the HR21 with a Monoprice cable with ferrite cores; and the problem seems to have beem eliminated. Does that seem right?

Thanks Again.

Is a dongle the same as a di-plixer ????

No. A dongle is a very small piece of hardware that can be attached as an add-on to an existing piece of harware to provide new functions.

fafner

It appears that both the WB616 and the power inserter do the same thing; add power! Since I don't need 16 outputs, is the power inserter my best choice?

Since my post, I replaced the HDMI cable provided with the HR21 with a Monoprice cable with ferrite cores; and the problem seems to have beem eliminated. Does that seem right?

Thanks Again.The PI would be less expensive but require more connections. Whatever works for you. I don't see what effect a different HDMI cable would have on a problem that is variably dependent on what channel another receiver is tuned to. If it works, it works though. Check to see if the HR21 works with the H20 unplugged.

The PI would be less expensive but require more connections. Whatever works for you. I don't see what effect a different HDMI cable would have on a problem that is variably dependent on what channel another receiver is tuned to. If it works, it works though. Check to see if the HR21 works with the H20 unplugged.

I will get the PI.

Thanks Much.

I had posted earlier that my local sat supply warehouse had no HR20s in stock and that they had no idea if they would ever get any more. I spoke to the warehouse manager (Exceptionally helpful and friendly) and he advised that new shipments came in on Mondays. He said I could call and ask for him by name and he would tell me if he receieved any HR20s. As luck would have it, I called on 11/13 and Frank said he received 2 pallets of HR20s Monday afternoon. I then called D* and scheduled an install on 11/17. I then called Frank back and told him I couldn't get installed until 11/17. He said there should be plenty of HR20s left. If the tech came with the wrong receiver, I was to refuse it and call the warehouse.

It seems that the OTA capable receiver is surviving the rollout of the HR21s.

Had DTV installed on Sat, with the HR21 in the main viewing room. Sunday HD football wasn't great as with any rapid movement I had pixellation... annoying. The set was taking a 1080i signal, and I couldn't change it ( I guesss I could have had I disabled the receiver from this format. Ended up watching on non-HD station.

Any ideas on how to get a smoother picture for next Sunday?? ( have a panny 50" plasma..1080i )

I have the HR21 and Panny 50 inch 1080p plasma (there is no such thing as a 1080i plasma). I have absolutely excellent picture and no pixellation whatsoever. If you have a HDTV, either 1080p or 720p, the 1080i DirecTV feed should give you the best picture with Native on, letting the Panny do the scaling and interlacing.

My first guess is that you have a problem with signal strength. Check you signal strength under Setup.

Set it to native, big improvement THANK YOU !!

I was about to give up on this forum as I've posted 2 questions now... and no response

:)

Well, things could be worse here. I just got the the "new" reciever installed today and I was not even aware that there was NO OTA tuner! I was pissed. I just thought that would be a no-brainer on their part! Who knows when Dead Moines will get the locals through the dish....like everything else....hopefully before I'm dead. And thats a long shot.

It took me a while to get the ant. programmed into my Sony direct veiw but I was a little more satisfied when I started getting my locals in. For some reason, I had to tweek my video because the picture was very dark. Maybe 'cause it was a new input I had not calibrated yet. So far, the picture on all locals is just as good as through the old H20. But yes, not getting 5.1 through the reciever is SUCK. Stupid on their part, really. Just makes no sense. But, like I said, it could be worse. At least I can watch the game or race in HD and the sound on my Sony is not all that bad. Sure miss the bass, though.

I don't think I have the optical output to run from my display to the reciever. It only has regular outputs. So would I just get a normal stereo signal if I used those outputs? The woofer would still be of no use though, right? As would the surrounds. Maybe stereo for games would be better than nothing.

Where do you go to check the status of local HD channels that may be coming to my area?

THANKS!

Not to hijack the thread, but I've read some things here that DirectTV didn't mention a week ago -

1) I called and asked for 2 HD DVRs as was told I would need 4 cable lines. I have only 2 run and difficult to run more (have been on DTV for 8 years with SD boxes and basic dish). Can I have 2 DVRs and only 2 cable lines?

2) What HD dishes are available? Anything for side mount that matches up to the original dish mounting plate? Preferrably without the extra post supports? I don't want to wreck my siding with all those mounting points?

3) Any advantage to the HR21 over HR20? I don't care about no ATSC tuner as I'll keep my media center PC installed. I can get locals HD (MPEG-4) in St. Louis. Can the Ethernet port pull data (pictures, etc.) from PCs which are not Intel VIIV? I've read on the DTV site that it supports VIIV PCs.

4) What is the best retention deal I can expect to get? At one time, 4 months back I had worked a deal for 1 free MPEG-4 DVR and new dish along with install, with $99 purchase (lease) of HD receiver for 2nd TV. Now I'm greedy and would like it all free but both units to be DVRs. That is what DISH is offering now, right? I've been waiting loyally for the promised Media Center DirectTV solution, but I'm tired of waiting for a broken promise.

1. Right now, one cable will not allow recording two programs at once or recording one while watching another live. Those functions take two cables. There is a single wire multiswitch due soon that will allow full function on one cable. It can be mounted outdoors if necessary to get four cables to the dish. See http://www.sonoradesign.com/slide_display.php?presentationId=27&target=homeowners for sample SWM wiring schemes.

2. The only dish now available for full HD service is the AU9-S or slimline. The Ka/Ku band signals require a larger dish than the old Ku only model. The dish is not only heavier but is subject to a higher wind load. That requires a larger foot and mast as well as one or two extra support struts in most situations.

3. The HR21 has some improvements in hardware but trails in software development. New software downloads will catch it up. Other programs besides Viiv including Windows Media Program 11, Tversity and Twonky will work.

4. Each individual case is different. Since your last deal was only four months old, that will work against you. Since you are willing to investigate other options, that will work for you. Make sure to compare available programming. DirecTV has more bandwidth available for HD and will get even more at the next satellite launch. It's looking like the ability to connect HR20/21s via an Ethernet network and combining them into a media center type solution will be developed.

I'm getting my HD DVR installed today... they said they'd have both HR20s and HR21 on the truck... which to choose? which to choose!!!???? I hear the HR21s are locking up on people! Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks greywolf. I knew I would get some good answers.

Actually my "deal" I had worked out with DTV I cancelled (gave them plenty of notice). So I'm hoping as a long-term customer with no current contracts, I can work something good. Since they have the most HD right now, that may work against me though.

I think I'll wait a little longer for that multi-switch to be available, can't run the lines (part of basement ceiling is now drywalled) and don't want to hide them outside. The switch could be inside as that area where dish lines come in is not finished. So that sounds ideal for my situation.

Do you know the approx. timeframe on that multi-switch? weeks, months?

I did put in CAT5 from upstairs to down so putting the DVRS on Ethernet will be easy.

DISH went to MPEG-4 as well correct? So they I assume are planning more HD channels too?

Can you inject the sat signal and OTA signal at the roof and then seperate them at the set? I have a couple of rooms that are setup for my OTA antennae and I would like to have the sat and HD OTA in there but I only have one cable going to the room.
tia

Can you inject the sat signal and OTA signal at the roof and then seperate them at the set? I have a couple of rooms that are setup for my OTA antennae and I would like to have the sat and HD OTA in there but I only have one cable going to the room.
tia

You absolutely should not do this. The DirecTV receiver pushes electrical current out through the satellite input ports to power the electronic circuitry in the LNB pickups mounted at the dish. This current could damage the OTA receiver, possibly the antenna, and anything else you might attach to it. Do not - repeat, DO NOT - attempt this.

You absolutely should not do this. The DirecTV receiver pushes electrical current out through the satellite input ports to power the electronic circuitry in the LNB pickups mounted at the dish. This current could damage the OTA receiver, possibly the antenna, and anything else you might attach to it. Do not - repeat, DO NOT - attempt this.It's commonly done. Diplexers that do the job only pass power on the Sat leg and stop it on the OTA leg. See one example at http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=SPDX100

With the new DirecTV HD channels though, the OTA and SAT channels overlap frequencies so diplexing on present equipment will cause problems. A single wire multiswitch is in manufacture that will allow diplexing, splitting and feeding two DVR tuners with one cable. It is not yet available but is very close to shipping.

Thanks Pat, I did this several years ago but didn't know if anything had changed.... so the DTV channels are mapped low and will overlap. I think I will have the cable cut and run the Sat signal only to 2 of the rooms (that are not accessable) and then at a later date get the product you list above. At least this way I can revert back to OTA if i need to.

Anybody have the H21-200 non-DVR receiver connected to a Sharp LC-32D43U and not be able to get a picture with a HDMI connection?

Component, YES....HDMI, NO for me

D****TV installer said some of their boxes with HDMI do not recognize some TV"s(or Vice-Versa)

Could this be possible? I will try another cable,first.

GREAT HD picture(720p), nonetheless

Thanks

Will the HR21 output both the digital coax and optical output simutaneously?

I want to attach a wireless headphone to one output; and my amp/receiver to the other.

Thanks

All outputs are always on. HDMI/HDCP incompatibilities exist throughout the industry between devices. I've even read about problems between Sony TVs and Sony playstations.

All outputs are always on. HDMI/HDCP incompatibilities exist throughout the industry between devices. I've even read about problems between Sony TVs and Sony playstations.

I am not using the hdmi output for audio; only video.

Are there any known issues having both the digital coax and optcal audio outputs used simultaneously?

Thanks Again.

I am not using the hdmi output for audio; only video.

Are there any known issues having both the digital coax and optcal audio outputs used simultaneously?

Thanks Again.I've never heard of any. I don't see how it would be a problem.

Is it me or is the surround sound quality of the hr20 lacking?

I just got a HR21-700. Two questions. 1 is there any need for both eithernet jacks to be plugged in. 2 my eithernet adress is stuck in auto config. Is there a way to specify DHCP?

I just got a HR21-700. Two questions. 1 is there any need for both eithernet jacks to be plugged in. 2 my eithernet adress is stuck in auto config. Is there a way to specify DHCP?

Im not sure about using both jacks, but you only need 1 for Dtv on demand. I havent noticed any problem with hard wiring, only problems going wireless until dtv releasing its wireless adapter.

I just got a HR21-700. Two questions. 1 is there any need for both eithernet jacks to be plugged in. 2 my eithernet adress is stuck in auto config. Is there a way to specify DHCP?
As far as I know, only one jack actually functions. I'm not sure how to configure the IP address though, since my install is still upcoming...

I have both the HR21-700(black) and the HR20-700(silver) and have both connected to my home network and able to reach the internet. The "silver" box *is* able to do VoD via D*TV's beta VoD system but the "black" box is *NOT* able to do VoD. The menu simply tells you to look at the D*TV website at www.directv.com/ondemand. When you go there the site indicates that you need an HR20-700 to get the VoD beta. Not sure when they will hook up the HR21 for VoD but it is not active on mine and works great on my HR20 silver box.

I am not using the hdmi output for audio; only video.

Are there any known issues having both the digital coax and optcal audio outputs used simultaneously?

Thanks Again.

I don't know whether it will work or not, but you won't hurt anything by trying it.

Has anyone been able to get DTV on demand to work? I call the techs and no one seems to know what I'm talking about. http://www.directv.com/ondemand

Has anyone been able to get DTV on demand to work? I call the techs and no one seems to know what I'm talking about. http://www.directv.com/ondemand
It's still in Beta and only active on the HR20-700. If you have the HR20-100 or the HR21, you won't see it.

I just got a HR21-700. Two questions. 1 is there any need for both eithernet jacks to be plugged in. 2 my eithernet adress is stuck in auto config. Is there a way to specify DHCP?
1) Only one jack is required.
2) Your router has to be enabled for DHCP since that's what determines how the box get's an IP. If it is, the unit should pop right up with an internal IP address as soon as you connect it and turn it on. Just be sure you have allocated enough addresses in your router for all the devices that are connected (+1 for the router itself). If you have the router assigning addresses manually, you'll have to go into the DVR settings menu and specify one that corresponds to what you manually assign in the router.

I have a hr-21 after 2 bad hr-20s.

I have a hr-21 after 2 bad hr-20s.
Then you'll have to wait a bit longer for VOD on that unit. Be patient - it's coming. ;)

I was messing with my HR-21 last night and I got a new option on my DVR. It had video and picture section. It saw my server and wireless laptop, but not my main desktop (where I have over 10,000 songs). I was able to acesse the server and was hear track and look at pictures. But not able to connect to the internet. Now this morning nothing. The music option is gone but, now it will connect to the internet. How do I get the music option back? Thanks

Looking for opinions on SD picture quality with HR-21 and HDMI connection.

I will be upgrading to an HR-21 and using the HDMI to my Samsung plasma. Currently I am using an older D* Tivo unit with an S-video connection. The SD picture quality on most channels is pretty bad, I'm just wondering if this may improve with the new HR-21 and using the digital connection.

Thanks

Currently I am using an older D* Tivo unit with an S-video connection. The SD picture quality on most channels is pretty bad, I'm just wondering if this may improve with the new HR-21 and using the digital connection.
No. The quality of the SD channels is crap no matter what connection you use. The only way it gets any better is when the SD is sent over the HD channels since it's getting better bit rates.

No. The quality of the SD channels is crap no matter what connection you use. The only way it gets any better is when the SD is sent over the HD channels since it's getting better bit rates.

Hmm, that sucks!

So they send SD programming over the HD channels? How does that work?

Looking for opinions on SD picture quality with HR-21 and HDMI connection.

I will be upgrading to an HR-21 and using the HDMI to my Samsung plasma. Currently I am using an older D* Tivo unit with an S-video connection. The SD picture quality on most channels is pretty bad, I'm just wondering if this may improve with the new HR-21 and using the digital connection.

Thanks

Why haven't you used your component connection to get better SD PQ???

Component is much better than SVideo and HDMI is somewhat BETTER in my opinion than Component with my HR21-700. YMMV!!!

Hmm, that sucks!

So they send SD programming over the HD channels? How does that work?
The networks do that. When they have SD programming instead of HD, they upconvert it on the HD channel. In theory, provided they don't stretch it or crop it, it should look better than the SD programming on the SD channel.

Why haven't you used your component connection to get better SD PQ???

Component is much better than SVideo and HDMI is somewhat BETTER in my opinion than Component with my HR21-700. YMMV!!!
Because he has an older SD TiVo. It may only have S-Video.

The networks do that. When they have SD programming instead of HD, they upconvert it on the HD channel. In theory, provided they don't stretch it or crop it, it should look better than the SD programming on the SD channel.

Interesting, I hope that it does look better. I guess that makes sense, I mean they have to show something on the HD channel between the HD shows.

Why haven't you used your component connection to get better SD PQ???

Component is much better than SVideo and HDMI is somewhat BETTER in my opinion than Component with my HR21-700. YMMV!!!

My D* Tivo box only has an S video. No components, :(

It's old!

I hope that the new HR-21 will look much better! (Fingers crossed)

I was at Best buy this morning and I noticed that there selling the HR-21 600.

Is there a difference between the 600 and 700?

The hr21-200 Pro is not a replacement for the hr20 but a high end pro version of the HD DVR.

-considered a Pro version HD DVR
-Black/Rack mountable
-1080P
-built in fiber HDMI port for long runs
-larger hard drive with double the storage capacity of the HR20 (about 100 hours of MPEG-4 HD).
-no HD off air tuners
-more money than the hr20
-projected delivery November

*****
Can someone confirm the spec that this receiver will output 1080p. I keep reading that in chat rooms, but the one pdf of specs I saw did not mention 1080p. Basically, if this machine cannot output 1080p, it is not worth the extra $$ since it only features a larger hard drive and optical HDMi.

*****
Can someone confirm the spec that this receiver will output 1080p. I keep reading that in chat rooms, but the one pdf of specs I saw did not mention 1080p. Basically, if this machine cannot output 1080p, it is not worth the extra $$ since it only features a larger hard drive and optical HDMi.
No TV receiver outputs 1080p. There is no 1080p television programming available for it to output. No TV network sends out a 1080p signal - at least not in the US, anyway.

The only way you can currently see true 1080p is with a Blu-Ray or HD DVD player.

The only reason 1080p TVs are so hot right now is they're they only way for flat panel displays to show a 1080i picture. Flat panel displays are natively progressive, which is why they display 1080p instead of 1080i. CRT displays do true 1080i, but many cannot natively display 720p.

My D* Tivo box only has an S video. No components, :(

It's old!

I hope that the new HR-21 will look much better! (Fingers crossed)

Well, I activated my new HR-21 last night. Connected to my TV with HDMI - and to be honest, the SD picture is still CRAP! :mad: Oh well, I should have HD by Monday (of course, AFTER the superbowl) :mad:

This may already have been covered but does anyone know if the IR Codes for H21-200 are the same as the were for the H20. Trying to program URC and the database only has codes for H20.

Looking at pics I noticed the remotes look identical.

Please help...thanks.

The remotes are identical. All the new receivers use the same codes, even the D10 in the kid's room.

I was at Best buy this morning and I noticed that there selling the HR-21 600.

Is there a difference between the 600 and 700?

The 600 or 700 number tell which company made the reciever for DTV. There should be no difference in fuctioning.

On either of these receivers (hr20 and hr21), if I am watching letterman live on one channel and have leno live on the other tuner, can I pause letterman and watch leno for a bit. And then pause leno, and switch over to letterman and unpause him and watch for a bit. I seem to have gotten the impression somewhere that I couldn't do that, like I can now on my d* tivo SD receiver. I pause both tuners now constantly.
Thanks!

On either of these receivers (hr20 and hr21), if I am watching letterman live on one channel and have leno live on the other tuner, can I pause letterman and watch leno for a bit. And then pause leno, and switch over to letterman and unpause him and watch for a bit. I seem to have gotten the impression somewhere that I couldn't do that, like I can now on my d* tivo SD receiver. I pause both tuners now constantly.
Thanks!

The DirecTV DVRs don't have two live buffers like the TiVo, so you can't just flip between the tuners. But if you set one program to record, and watch the other "live", you can flip between them using pause and then the "previous" button. Not as convenient but a reasonable workaround.

I have had nothing but, trouble since I got "upgraded". Show not taping , sound dropping out, and HD channels are flakey. I miss my HD tivo.:(:(:(.

New HR21 owner and have to agree, some scheduled HD shows record, others do not? Ones that do not record have a consistent bug, I go to play the recording, get the record (time) bar and then it jumps immediately to the "Do you want to delete?" menu?? Definitely looks like a software bug.

New HR21 owner as well. I am also having the same problem recording the shows that I had scheduled. Wonder what the deal is.

^^^^^^I was told by the tech that it is a know problem that they are working on.

I have direct TV but must get my locals through an external antenna. I know the HR20 has in input on the back while the HR21 does not. I could hook the external antenna feed directly to my TV if I got the HR21. I am just looking for opinions from folks in the group as to which unit would be my best bet. I can get the HR20's on ebay. Any other sources out there?

Thanks in advance for the advice.
Wayne

I would buy the HR20 if you want a simple solution if you don't want to add the AM21 OTA Tuner to get OTA.

Or buy the HR22 and add an AM21.