I'm looking for an HDD recorder that has two features that I need:

-hard drive defrag
-ability to record JPEG images onto the hard drive from an external card reader or digital camera, or built-in card reader

So far the only HDD recorder I've found that has these two features are the Sony RDR HX750 / HX950. The Pioneer DVR-550H is the only other HDD recorder I've found that has defrag (I've searched through many PDF manuals), but it doesn't have USB inputs.

I'm looking for an HDD recorder that has two features that I need:

-hard drive defrag
-ability to record JPEG images onto the hard drive from an external card reader or digital camera, or built-in card reader

So far the only HDD recorder I've found that has these two features are the Sony RDR HX750 / HX950. The Pioneer DVR-550H is the only other HDD recorder I've found that has defrag (I've searched through many PDF manuals), but it doesn't have USB inputs.
The 2006 Pioneer DVR-640H-S has defrag and a PhotoViewer that allows upload of JPEGS, copying to DVDs, etc. It also has a Jukebox for storing music.

Thanks. I don't know if those are still available here in Canada - but I'll keep an eye out for it. Right now I'm checking Best Buy & Future Shop every few days - their HDD recorders often go on sale.

The Pioneer 550 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pna/product/detail/0,,32171715_32252751_457433468,00.html) and 650 (http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pna/product/detail/0,,32171715_32252751_457433472,00.html) do indeed have USB inputs for music and photos. I have last year's 640 and I highly recommend Pioneer recorders. Very reliable and flexible.

The 550 was recently on sale at FS for 399.00, and is now on sale at BB for $449.00.

Hmmm...if I search in the DVR-550H-K manual for the word 'USB', nothing comes up. And the manual says "You can import files and save them to the HDD from a CD or DVD" - no mention of importing from a camera or card reader. Maybe I'll go to Best Buy or Future Shop to see one in person.

If it can do that, I'd prefer the Pioneer over the Sony.

FYI assuming it's like last year's 640, the USB ports are behind the door that flips down on the bottom half of the front panel.

Where did you download the manual for the 550? I don't see it available from Pioneer's Manuals download page (http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/poc/product/manual/0,,32171715_32253025,00.html). Maybe you are looking at the manual for an international model? (Pioneer is wacky that way...they sometimes use the same or very similar model number to represent 2 different models intended for different parts of the world.)

The Pioneer-Canada description for the 550 is here (http://www.pioneerelectronics.ca/pna/product/detail/0,,32171715_32252751_457433468,00.html)... it does indicate USB input for music and photos (Jukebox and PhotoViewer).

The Lite-On HD-A760GX has defrag,
but is no longer for sale.

The manual I downloaded is from Pioneer Europe, the Canadian Pioneer site doesn't have the manual for this model. Based on that Pioneer Canada description, the Canadian version has USB input, it says:

"Connect thru USB to PC to Transfer JPEG pictures and Music files to the HDD"

Can I also transfer files from a camera or card reader?

"JPEG Photo Viewer - Allows you to view and create slideshows of photos stored on the HDD, DVD, CD or USB"

On my Pio 640, I've transferred JPEGs via USB from a flash drive loaded w/pics from my computer. I've also copied "slide shows" directly from my dig. camera that included both stills and video. Used std video cable from my camera's cradle in playing the slide shows to a line input on the 640. Made copies of the photos and videos on DVD from the 640's PhotoViewer.

I also copied music from CDs to the Jukebox and played it from the 640 thru my AV receiver. (Music files can't be copied to anything from the 640.)

If the 550 can copy files directly from a PC, as stated, that would eliminate the need for flash drives, CDs, etc. for stuff already stored in the PC.

...Can I also transfer files from a camera or card reader?Yes, pretty much any USB storage device including external HDDs.

It's a bit slow reading large JPEGs but it reads ahead during a slideshow so it's no big deal. (Those slideshows save a lot of $$ in printing photos.)

The jukebox on the 640 works fine and can play and copy music files including MP3s from USB. Unfortunately it doesn't have random play, but you can copy store-bought CDs etc to the HDD and then delete songs, program a play list etc.

Thank you everyone - now I just need to wait for either the Pioneer or Sony to go on sale, which shouldn't take long.

It looks like the only advantage of the Sony is that it has a universal remote, whereas I don't think the Pioneer's is universal.

-hard drive defrag


Why do you want this? Seriously, it sounds to me like you're too much in a PC mindset. (To be specific, you're in an MSDOS/Windows mindset.)

The enlightened of us haven't had to deal with defragmenting for a very long time. (Gee, UCSD Pascal discs required defragmenting (called Krunching)).

What specific issues are you seeing that you have PROOF would be solved by defragmenting?

I do a lot of editing; I record many shows and cut out many large portions in each, leaving many small portions behind.

I do a lot of editing; I record many shows and cut out many large portions in each, leaving many small portions behind.

I do that all the time with my Pio 640, for well over a year, and have NEVER had to reformat the HDD. If I ever get the HDD empty, I just might do it for saftey's sake, but the machine has never said it needs it...

I believe using playlists are in order here. The Toshiba XS series allows for any number of active playlists that can be saved to the HDD for subsequent editing at a later date/time. No USB though.

I do that all the time with my Pio 640, for well over a year, and have NEVER had to reformat the HDD. If I ever get the HDD empty, I just might do it for saftey's sake, but the machine has never said it needs it...
There's a big difference between Defrag and Format. :D

Why do you want this? Seriously, it sounds to me like you're too much in a PC mindset. (To be specific, you're in an MSDOS/Windows mindset.)

The enlightened of us haven't had to deal with defragmenting for a very long time. (Gee, UCSD Pascal discs required defragmenting (called Krunching)).

What specific issues are you seeing that you have PROOF would be solved by defragmenting?

The Pioneer 550 & 650 use a fat file system (most probably fat32), therefore degramentation is a requirement.

The enlightened of us haven't had to deal with defragmenting for a very long time...What specific issues are you seeing that you have PROOF would be solved by defragmenting?I'm curious, what makes you think new DVDRs don't suffer from fragmentation, especially when they have to store such large amounts of data in a short time period and file editing is so common? Maybe I'm missing something here, but surely you don't believe that all the files on the HDD are somehow instantly kept congruous after edits do you?

Just because modern hard drives are faster and usually fairly resilient doesn't mean they won't wear faster if the heads have to jump all over the place when reading and writing due to fragmentation, and the more fragmentation, the more complex (and prone to errors) the file system may be, regardless of the OS in use.

Indeed some pc operating systems take measures to reduce head movement when possible, but to eliminate fragmentation would require complete file rewrites every time an edit takes place, (which would take much longer,) and/or buffers larger than 5Gb (which would substantially increase the price.) There would also be large amounts of wasted space.

Seems to me from all the posts I have read the people who have had early DVDR failures are those who allowed the HDD to fill up which will undoubtedly result in more fragmentation and more work for the HDD heads.

I wonder how you managed to become so "enlightened" about the proprietary file systems that are in use on DVDRs? I little logic and knowledge of the workings of any file system would seem to be sufficient to conclude that fragmentation could indeed result in problems, so where is your proof that defragmenting is not necessary, especially considering top tier manufacturers like Pioneer found it prudent to include a defrag feature? Those DVDR manufacturers that did not include a defrag feature probably left it out to reduce costs using the excuse that a HDD DVDR for recording DVDs and is not necessarily intended to be used as a PVR. The HDD is there for convenience and to assist with editing. (Not my opinion, just a possible excuse.)

Personally I don't defrag, but prefer to empty the drive periodically because it is much less work for the drive, but I know most other people won't do that, so a defrag is the next best bet even though it contributes to the wear & tear on the drive. For those people that don't empty the drive periodically, I think it is irresponsible to recommend against defragging unless you have inside information from all the DVDR manufacturers regarding the file systems in use, and I find that to be unlikely considering to date very limited information has been reported because the file systems are kept secret intentionally, probably for DRM reasons.

Certainly on a PC defragging should be unnecessary if the drive is empty, and I believe that to be the case on my Pioneers because as an experiment I ran the defrag when the HDD was empty and it just took a second or two as expected. This however is not necessarily the case for other manufacturers. I heard older Panasonics and Toshibas used a linked-list file system that had to be reset (formatted) periodically to avoid serious problems, even if the drive was emptied.

The Pioneer 550 & 650 use a fat file system (most probably fat32), therefore degramentation is a requirement.Pioneers can read FAT file systems via USB for photos and music files, but what makes you think the HDD uses a FAT file system? No one has been able to read the file system when connecting the HDD to a computer using Windows or Linux, and of course DOS can't read a drive over 2.2Gb which is FAT's maximum storage capacity.

Pioneers can read FAT file systems via USB for photos and music files, but what makes you think the HDD uses a FAT file system? No one has been able to read the file system when connecting the HDD to a computer using Windows or Linux, and of course DOS can't read a drive over 2.2Gb which is FAT's maximum storage capacity.
Hkan's pioneerfaq.info website has a procedure for archiving a Pio file system for later installing on a new HDD, if needed. An element of the procedure is preparing a HDD for receiving the Pio file, and it starts with formatting that HDD as FAT32... seems to suggest FAT32 for the Pio HDD, or at least that the Pio HDD file is "compatible" with FAT32?

The pdf file for the procedure can be downloaded here. (http://pioneerfaq.info/filer/DVR-630/pioneer_file_extract.pdf) The intro states:

"This procedure was used to extract the file from a working Pioneer DVR-531H 80 GB
Western Digital hard drive for the purpose of archiving the file. The file can then be used
to restore these functions to a new hard drive in the event the original drive has failed or has been corrupted."

Hkan's pioneerfaq.info website has a procedure for archiving a Pio file system for later installing on a new HDD, if needed. An element of the procedure is preparing a HDD for receiving the Pio file, and it starts with formatting that HDD as FAT32... seems to suggest FAT32 for the Pio HDD, or at least that the Pio HDD file is "compatible" with FAT32?I believe formatting as FAT32 is just to make the drive visible to Linux in preparation for a sector by sector (bit for bit) copy. This is necessary because as it says the Pioneer drive isn't readable with Windows or Linux. If it was FAT32 it would be readable and all the extra steps wouldn't be necessary.

Probably the process would be much easier if you own a 3rd party program which can do a bit-for-bit copy of the Pioneer partition.