I think both handle 24fps as an input, but does either display 24fps?

I know the Pearl takes the 24FPS input and displays it at 96Hz. I assume the Black Pearl does the same.

yes it does

Somebody please tell me what that means. I was looking to upgrade my HD DVD player to the A35 model which will output 1080P/24, and I was looking at getting the Black Pearl to take advantage of that. So, is the Black Pearl a bad choice for getting smooth 24fps delivery? I'm a little confused about this.

it means, the Black pearl is a perfect match for your planned Toshiba HD-DVD player.

It also means, given your answer, that he is still confused. So jump back in and finish what you so glibly started. I.m not going to do it for you.

I guess what I'm asking is if the Black Pearl accepts a 24fps, but outputs it at 96hz is that less than ideal? Is it better that it output 24fps to natively match the inputed signal? I know that 96 is a multiple of 24 which must be good, right?

I guess what I'm asking is if the Black Pearl accepts a 24fps, but outputs it at 96hz is that less than ideal? Is it better that it output 24fps to natively match the inputed signal? I know that 96 is a multiple of 24 which must be good, right?

Yes, 96 is an even multiple of 24 giving judder free motion from film source material. The higher the multiple the clearer the motion pans, less lag.
In theaters you are seeing 48 because the projectors use a 2 blade shutter flashing the image two times per frame. Next time your at a theater pay attention to the lag during motion. I have a three chip DLP that takes 24 and doubles it outputting 48 and I see that same lag as I do with film.

It also means, given your answer, that he is still confused. So jump back in and finish what you so glibly started. I.m not going to do it for you.

LOL, lucky for me, that Alan got rid of the confusion.

Yes, 96 is an even multiple of 24 giving judder free motion from film source material. The higher the multiple the clearer the motion pans, less lag.
In theaters you are seeing 48 because the projectors use a 2 blade shutter flashing the image two times per frame. Next time your at a theater pay attention to the lag during motion. I have a three chip DLP that takes 24 and doubles it outputting 48 and I see that same lag as I do with film.

Thanks, Alan.

And I would imagine that 120hz displays would even be smoother than 96hz. I see those advertised on some LCD flat panels. Are there projectors that do 120hz or is 96hz about the best there is? I certainly do see judder with horizontal pan at movie theaters and I see them as well with my current G1 HD DVD player and my Sony HS51 although I'm not quite sure what it's outputting -- maybe 1080i/30fps with 3:2 pulldown? Is that what's happening?

Anyway, I'm trying to put together a good upgrade combination of HD DVD player, receiver and projector. I already purchased an Onkyo 605. Now I just need to decide on a player that outputs 1080p/24 and a projector that takes full advantage of that. The Toshiba A30 (or 35) and the Black Pearl are on my short list. I'm also looking at that new Epson Cinema 1080 UB, but I don't have a lot of information on that one. Anyone know if the Epson also takes 24fps and outputs it at 96hz?

120Hz is a nice number because it's also a multiple of 60 for video-based content (like sports, music videos, studio-based shows, etc). I don't think it's necessarily going to be the feature that should sway your decision to one projector or another though.

I still don't know what happens with 50Hz content (SD and HD) in these new projectors though. Anyone enlighten me?

Maybe this is a silly question, but I am a bit confused about why 120Hz, 96Hz or even 48Hz would be "smoother" than 24Hz for film based material on a fixed pixel display. I understand that judder from the 3-2 conversion is avoided and thus moving objects display more uniformly. But there is no flicker effect here as in film projectors or CRT displays. A pixel stays the same until a new frame comes along to change it. Since the source is running at 24 fps, what does a projector do differently at the higher rates?
Thanks.

Al

Please patiently read all 11 pages of this topic from Blu-Ray.com forum :

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=5155

It explains all details about 1080p/24fps...

Sony's Black Pearl can do 4:4 pulldown (96Hz refresh rate) and this is better than 3:3 (72Hz) or 2:2 (48Hz) pulldown.

After reading a lot about this feature here and in other places I'm really inclined to choose a projector only from these 9 at the list (well, I pass on numbers 1 and 9 due to their......$$$ize :D).

The Black Pearl is a heavy contender..........and despite the fact that it was just launched prices are already falling!

The Black Pearl is a great pj especially for the price range. I am very happy with it and it is only day 2! :eek: Test drive one and you will buy it... :)

Hey Joe !

Can you do a little test for me on the Black Pearl ?
Can you try to send 48Hz with your CII to it ? I know it worked with the Pearl and a VP50 ?!

Thanks my friend !

I already did. It works perfectly! :)

Soooooo that should solve all cadence break issues (still too much with 24p when 1080i in) ? Doesn't it ?
It is over HDMI right ?

Maybe this is a silly question, but I am a bit confused about why 120Hz, 96Hz or even 48Hz would be "smoother" than 24Hz for film based material on a fixed pixel display. I understand that judder from the 3-2 conversion is avoided and thus moving objects display more uniformly. But there is no flicker effect here as in film projectors or CRT displays. A pixel stays the same until a new frame comes along to change it. Since the source is running at 24 fps, what does a projector do differently at the higher rates?
Thanks.

Al

I wonder the same thing too. I scanned through all 11 pages of the bluray.com discussion thread (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=5155) but nothing in there really addresses that specific question (if there is, could somebody provide the post #).

Starting with a source the has 24 frames per second, a 120 Hz display will show the same frame 5 times for every 1/24 of a second. But as stated in the above quote, fixed pixel displays are continuous - no flicker/refresh - so there aren't any 'breaks' between cycles of showing the same frame. It's exactly the same as showing the same frame for 5 x 1/120 = 1/24 of a second, or just plain 24 hz.

Assuming that we're not talking about black frame insertion or adding interpolated frames, which very few (if any) currently available displays can do anyway, why would 24fps source material look better on a 48/72/96/120 Hz fixed-pixel display than on a 24 Hz display?

We watched Fantastic four: Rise of the Silver Surfer and Reign Over Me sending 1080p/24 from my new Pioneer 95FD and the picture was flawless being displayed by the Black Pearl! To date I would have to say it is right up there with some of the best picture Q I have seen... :eek:

Maybe this is a silly question, but I am a bit confused about why 120Hz, 96Hz or even 48Hz would be "smoother" than 24Hz for film based material on a fixed pixel display. I understand that judder from the 3-2 conversion is avoided and thus moving objects display more uniformly. But there is no flicker effect here as in film projectors or CRT displays. A pixel stays the same until a new frame comes along to change it. Since the source is running at 24 fps, what does a projector do differently at the higher rates?
Thanks.

Al

You are correct. The additional frames at multiple-of-24 rates don't do a thing for film judder.

The higher rates are there becasue the panels need to be refreshed faster than 24Hz in order to keep their "charge". But as long as the frames are identical, it's just as you stated: the image appears static to us until the next film frame is displayed for 4-5 panel refresh cycles.

Hi Steve-

Nice to hear from you. Hey, have you seen the VW-60 demoed yet and if so, how would you compare it with your VW-50 (I know that you have that relatively LARGE screen). I still have NOT pulled the trigger on a FP.

Wolvernole

Tom, how goes?

No, I haven't checked a -60 yet. From what I've read, I don't think it'd be worth the upgrade expense for me. Not to mention that it's so hard to get a decent evaluation in most show rooms.

I'll try and see it at some point, but I'm so satisfied thus far I'm in no hurry.

When you going to jump in?? The water's fine.... ;)

Tom, how goes?

No, I haven't checked a -60 yet. From what I've read, I don't think it'd be worth the upgrade expense for me. Not to mention that it's so hard to get a decent evaluation in most show rooms.

I'll try and see it at some point, but I'm so satisfied thus far I'm in no hurry.

When you going to jump in?? The water's fine.... ;)

Well, I'm still hoping upon hope that the Scaesare family will adopt me as a REALLY old foster child, and then I could enjoy one of Virginia's very finest home theaters ! :D

Regards,
Tom (Wolvernole)

Well, I'm still hoping upon hope that the Scaesare family will adopt me as a REALLY old foster child, and then I could enjoy one of Virginia's very finest home theaters ! :D

Regards,
Tom (Wolvernole)


:o

Steve, I too have wondered about the "multiple of 24" question with LCD/LCOS displays. Your answer was both concise and understandable. Thank you.

Dick Fogg

Steve, I too have wondered about the "multiple of 24" question with LCD/LCOS displays. Your answer was both concise and understandable. Thank you.

Dick Fogg

Hey thanks. Glad I could help.

I'm thinking seriously about upgrading my HD DVD deck to one that's 24p capable, as my Pearl can do 24/96.