http://www.betanews.com/article/HD_DVD_and_Bluray_Toward_an_Endgame/1190836560/1

Cliff notes: NPD/BetaNews giving grim outlook on either format.

Has an interesting take on what would've been too.

I hate that they advertise upconversion as HD.

I have both the a20 and the PS3, and upconversion is not HD.

The problem is that it just might be good enough, and it is far cheaper.

So out of 100 million homes in the US only 27 million of them will buy into HDM in the near future.

That's still a lot of money out there for the movie industry.

Yes I think the missleading advetizing of upconversion players has a lot to do with it. sure it can look better but its no were near HD...

Some upconverted DVDs can look amazing; others not so good...

I watched Monster's Inc the other day and was blown away by it. I watched Raider's Of The Lost Arc today and found it to be a mixed bag. Parts were pristine and beautiful, other parts had dirt on the print, artifacts etc. The more I am exposed to HD via my satellite the more I am tempted to snag a HD optical format. I will wait another 6 months or so though...

So out of 100 million homes in the US only 27 million of them will buy into HDM in the near future.

That's still a lot of money out there for the movie industry.

Actually, what you said. If that many people had HDM we'd be set in stone.

The others would come when the post 09 increase in HD broadcasts started looking better than their DVDs.

I suppose we can each put our own spin on this. Mine would be that there are: lies, damn lies, and polls!

I think mass consumers are inherently ignorant consumers and to some degree you must 'teach them what to want'. Look how long it took to get a reasonable penetration of HD displays - I bought my first one in 2001 when the vast majority of people had never heard of HDTV. I'll bet back then 73% of poeple were satisfied with their current TV picture.

Would it be better if there were only one HDM format: of course! Regardless, I think we will see a gradual adoption of HDM (very much like HDTV) and along the way there will be plenty of pundits predicting its demise! I wouldn't have it any other way!

The same manufacturers who sell HD and BD players today are the same ones who were saying for a couple of years that upscaling players make your DVDs HD. They are certainly at least part to blame. I always knew this would come back and bite them in arse.

they must have watched HD DVD's only, so they dont really see the big differences between HD and upconverted dvd's

73% of people satisfied w/ upconverted DVD, not interested in HDM because they haven't actually seen the difference.

:)

Once one of their friends pick up true HD-DVD or Bluray players and put on a brand new movie (something made in the past year or two) on their big plasma for them to see... that 73% will go down...

This is how DVD came to be. They advertised the heck out of it.. but it wasn't until the viral marketing of person to person demonstrations that it actually took hold.

ALL of my friends and ALL of my family got DVD after watching it at my house. (Of course they waited until the prices came down a tad). All of them said "Why would you get DVD? I don't see a difference.. I'm not replacing my VHS collection... I just bought a new VHS player."

Good. I don't want those *******s crowding up the HD aisle or buying up all the new releases before i can get into the store anyway.

I'm praying HD carves out a nice little Laserdisc-like niche. Because then I can enjoy all the HD I want, whilst still lording a certain superiority over J6P.

If there is mass adoption, weird shite will start happening. Like Full-Screen TV shows cropped to widescreen to avoid those 'damn black bars' on the sides of their HDTVs.

Who wants that? Not me. The advantage with HD over Laserdisc (aside from the obvious quality) is that a niche format could be more successful and last longer in this day and age of buying and discussing media online. The Laserdisc guys didn't have that advantage until well towards the end of that format.

I don't know why people are panicking about mass adoption. Enjoy your niche formats and screw the average Joes!

they must have watched HD DVD's only, so they dont really see the big differences between HD and upconverted dvd's

I'm format neutral, but every time I read one of these useless posts, I feel like canceling a Blu-Ray preorder. Grow UP!!!! :rolleyes:

they must have watched HD DVD's only, so they dont really see the big differences between HD and upconverted dvd's
Posts exactly like this one do nothing but lower the Science of this forum. This adds NOTHING substantial to the discussion. post reported.

If you stay hidden, things might be better around here. Just a suggestion.

This % will change very slowly. SD, HD-lite, upscaled DVDs go hand in hand with the old, small HDTVs and typical viewing distances. At a size/distance that gives one marginal 720 resolution, one can tolerate SD and be "happy" with HD lite. Size/distance will slowly migrate toward better. But, not much hope for the overly compressed cable/sat crap.

At HDM prices, the value is considered poor.

When I told my friends I had 63 HD-DVDs they said what theirs that many already. I said that only a small amout of what's out their.
I think the low yeilds many stores get make some fell like thiers nothing out their. More so when even the big box store won't carry catalog in some area. All my local BBs just carry new stuff never catalog. Although I've read some do in other areas.

The same manufacturers who sell HD and BD players today are the same ones who were saying for a couple of years that upscaling players make your DVDs HD. They are certainly at least part to blame. I always knew this would come back and bite them in arse.

What do you mean a couple years ago?

I was just at BB and the Samsung and Sony upscalers had the same gold FULL HD 1080p badges on the front as their Blu-Ray players.

Toshiba didn't have the gold badges but they were almost as bad with the 1080p logos.

I have to agree with the article. I own a 32" lcd and a hd ready projector but I am o.k. with upconverting dvds through my toshiba upconverting dvd player.
I also have DTV with the hd package and it didnt make me go blu ray or hd dvd. I think the dual format players at $500 will be the only way consumers like myself and others will enter the hi def dvd market. just my OPINION

The $69 entry price for a 1080p upconvert doesn't help either.
And at places like Frys that have great TV's matched with a good upconvert player, it's hard to dispute that the upconvert isn't doing a good job or "near" HD quality.

I also wonder if the "near HD" quality works against HD DVD more then Blu-ray since it does have "HD" as part of it's name. Since Blu-ray says it's "Beyond High Definition", J6P might be confused and believe that upconvert is "near" HD DVD quality but maybe Blu-ray is better. :confused:

I mean, you don't see upconvert players advertising "near Blu-ray" quality.....

Since Blu-ray says it's "Beyond High Definition"

Isn't this false advetising? How does Bluray go "Beyond" 1080p?

Isn't this false advetising? How does Bluray go "Beyond" 1080p?

Come on, let not got there.... "The Look and Sound of Perfect." :confused:

There is already an identical thread on this report - suggest either merging or deleting this one.

However - important to note what the report ACTUALLY said - is that 62% of those surveyed indicated that they would be interested in buying into HD when the price drops.

And, importantly, this survey was undertaken in mid-JUNE of this year, BEFORE anyone knew about the more affordable HD DVD players coming form China.

This report is actually VERY good news for HD DVD, since it shows that more than Half of those waiting to buy, will be more interested when the prices drop to $200 - meaning HD DVD will likely have the lion's share of their purchasing dollars.

Come on, let not got there.... "The Look and Sound of Perfect." :confused:

Saying you are beyond HD is something that can be measured.
HD is a standard. It's between 720 and 1080 lines of resolution.

You could say "Bluray = HD"

..but "Beyond HD" implies that it is above 1080 lines of resolution.

The Look and Sound of Perfect is subjective. Perfect can not be measured.

Ok. I've just started another useless thread off-shoot.

I'll agree to disagree.

My opinion:

TV programs provide a big difference between SD and HD, be it 720p or 1080i, even on an EDTV. A big factor is the 16:9 vs. 4x3 AR.

Movies on 720p sets (or their cousins) do not have a big enough difference between upconverted DVD and HDM. They do not have the AR advantage. If I have to wait to get an HD rental, I am just as happy to get it in DVD. Lacking a decent sized 1080p display, I find the novel of HDM movies thin.

What a total shock.

2 things though

1. HD DVD will be better prepared for mass adoption

2. EVERYONE will buy a player at $200


The funniest thing is that every time one of these studies comes up, HD DVDers just seem to "not get it".

They just keep convincing themselves that their format will be able to handle the MAD RUSH of software demand when the players hit the "magic" $200 mark.

It is like group therapy.

i was looking in the walmart add for this sunday. in it they have a upconverting DVD recorder. it say unconverting 1080p dvd player play your DVDs in high defintion. that right thier is why folks are ok with upconverters to those who dont know. they see this as hey all my current dvd are no HD DVDs if i buy this player.

many will say well you "need" a large display to see HD.we yes a DVD next to a HDM disc on a 50" plus TV will be seen by most. but ive only got a 30" CRT HDTV and i can tell the diffrence. some movies not so much but others i really can

I thought dvd upconverted was good enough until I saw and heard HD DVD. Then, close to 150 movies later........

sadly i think upconversion is going to become the video equivalent of an mp3 and hddvd and bluray are going to be sacd and dvd-a

I don't thin $200 or even $150 is the "magic" number not when the average DVD player sells at $50 and the low low end models go for $28 bucks.. I don't think VHS players ever got that low. Infact I think the last VHS player walmart sold was a 2head mono player they still wanted $40. At the time the lowest DVD player was $34.99..

So pepole can buy a whole DVD player for the spare room or 1 HDM movie for the same price..

I think what also hurts is if you but a HDM player at BB what's the first thing they do. try to sell you on the $99 monster cable and 2-3 year extended plan.

I think the players need to fully work at all times what I mean by this is no more firmware updates. I would guess it will irate new unknown buyers. " I have to wait 10-30 minnites to download a update just so I can play this new movie.
DVD dosent have that I'm taking this thing back"

Plus you can watch ALL of your movies on DVD.. you don't have to worry about a movie being "exclusive"...

No one wants to buy a high price player that only plays "some" movies.. They want 100% support from EVERY movie studio.

I'm quite sure the percentages were nearly the same when dvd's came out and people still used vcr's. In fact, people still use vcr's but no where near the numbers of dvd users. They will be interested when the price is right, and after mass adoption takes place, upconverting will not be "good enough" anymore.

As pointed out many times before, HDM is an evolution, not a revolution. Adoption will be much slower and will only happen when swoftware prices get much lower.

Besides, there is this format war which by default will prevent any mass adoption unless combo players reach the $200s, or one format loses.

I'd not be here if it weren't for the PS3. I'd just sit and wait while the big guys face off.

As pointed out many times before, HDM is an evolution, not a revolution. Adoption will be much slower and will only happen when swoftware prices get much lower.

Besides, there is this format war which by default will prevent any mass adoption unless combo players reach the $200s, or one format loses.

I'd not be here if it weren't for the PS3. I'd just sit and wait while the big guys face off.

Quick question. As a PS3 owner, would you consider buying an HD DVD player for $149? Is that too high, or are you sticking with one format until this thing is decided?

This is an honest question.

I guess there is one positive if upconvert players are flying off the shelves.
This means that these people have a HiDef capable TV so getting a HDM players is not that big of a jump besides the price and 2 different exclusive movie selections/catalogs.

I guess there is one positive if upconvert players are flying off the shelves.
This means that these people have a HiDef capable TV so getting a HDM players is not that big of a jump besides the price and 2 different exclusive movie selections/catalogs.

I think both sides need to market their players as future proof upconverting players. Of cousre that's not really true if the format dies, but hey, its marketing!

I am not sure if the average person realizes that an HDM player plays SD DVD and even upconverts them (usually better then those $50 players).

On my TV....upconversion via upconvert DVD player makes the picture look soft. Then I set the DVD player output of 480p...& the picture looked much better on my HDTV.

I am happy with the picture (since I dont want to replace my DVD collection anytime soon)...but I am tempted by HD picture quality also. I might buy a HD player in the christmas....& buy some movies only on HD. But I will not stop buying DVD anytime soon...unless that can price the HD media the same as DVD. Sorry..dont have that big wallet

....& buy some movies only on HD. But I will not stop buying DVD anytime soon...unless that can price the HD media the same as DVD...

That is what I do. I see no reason to buy most comedies in HD. I try to only buy the films that look great on the big screen in HD...Action...some Drama.
When the price between HD as SD becomes the same, I'll change.

Quick question. As a PS3 owner, would you consider buying an HD DVD player for $149? Is that too high, or are you sticking with one format until this thing is decided?

This is an honest question.

I'd not buy an HD DVD player even at $50. The reason is that I wouldn't have where to put it. Besides I find it pretty ridiculous to have two boxes doing exactly the same thing.

Once it's decided, if it's HD-DVD the winner, I'll get a stand alone player and move the PS3 elsewhere (though I'd have to buy another good TV for it).

BTW, PS3's performance isn't much different than the 360's in it's first year. I don't want to go there, just pointing out that the doom and gloom are IMHO just FUD as usual.

In My Humble Opinion:

Upconversion whilst it can be GOOD, it NEVER delivers the results of true HD.

The weaknesses are all the more apparent in DVD now especially with the increasing number of 1080p displays. Even on an SD plasma the improvements from DVD to HDDVD is like night and day.

Unless you have high end video processors, high end disc players etc which most common consumers cannot and will not afford, DVD is simply not good enough for the new displays. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

The publics willingness to accept mediocrity is absolutely annoying beyond belief.

The publics willingness to accept mediocrity is absolutely annoying beyond belief. You should not, I think they actually watch the movies. And I don't think they get annoyed at people who choose to watch the pictures either.

There's one central issue here from which all others spring. The public isn't ready for HD media. Why? Because the same entities that want to sell it have failed to set the table. These same entities control the TV networks that have held back the HD transition for the better part of 2 decades now. If the major networks were all-HD already, it would lend some reality to the notion of HDTV.

It's too hard to get HD unless you go straight home and hook the bleeder to an antenna and something HD is actually on.....PBS is your best bet..... :rolleyes: Cable companies are driving away customers with miserablely bad set-top boxes that cost too much a month. They're passively resisting their mandate to service those few, thoughtful customers who bought an HDTV with a Quam tuner and want to actually use it, so it would appear. It's just push, push, push the super-sized meal, their way more profitable set-top box. Quam-mit! ;)

Direc wants folks to drop their far-from-worn-out HD equipment, incur additional expense for new HD equipment, and then recieve a pitiful few more exciting HD channels like, well blow me down, the Weather, aka Disaster Channel, CNN, TBS. What an exciting proposition, not! My mom says she'll never switch till they offer an MPEG4 DirecTivo. I'm tempted to feel that way too.

Half the population doesn't give a big, fat, steamin' crap about TV beyond the news and sports, if even them. They don't care how TV elvolves and are just P'ed that prices went up on sets. They proably, mostly, don't want set-top boxes to interfere with the simplicity of their TV remote.

HDTV hasn't even come close to being made easy enough for civilians! It's got to be so easy that, "you don't even have to think". Remember, this is Estados Unidos, terra de wed-neck wabbits...."what's up doc". Let's just leave at civilians just want s-i-m-p-l-e Tee-Vee.

The industry simply hasn't set the table properly. Belch me bay-bay! They've been so deluded and preoccupied with devising a grand scheme for windfall profits off the back of the Digital Transition. They forget all about how to market it and sell it.

When there's somethin' amiss with the indians, take a look-y at the chiefs.

You should not, I think they actually watch the movies. And I don't think they get annoyed at people who choose to watch the pictures either.

Correctly said...not to mention not everybody can pay for all these expensive things. There r more important things in life that needs money then Hi-Def everything.

I'd not buy an HD DVD player even at $50. The reason is that I wouldn't have where to put it. Besides I find it pretty ridiculous to have two boxes doing exactly the same thing.

Once it's decided, if it's HD-DVD the winner, I'll get a stand alone player and move the PS3 elsewhere (though I'd have to buy another good TV for it).

BTW, PS3's performance isn't much different than the 360's in it's first year. I don't want to go there, just pointing out that the doom and gloom are IMHO just FUD as usual.

+1

Correctly said...not to mention not everybody can pay for all these expensive things. There r more important things in life that needs money then Hi-Def everything.yeah, imagine all this energy is used for other causes, school for example. Sorry, OT.

Retail themselves have a part to play in adoption rates. If they really were interested in pushing a product.. it would be pushed.

Lack luster title selections. Hidden off in a dark corner jumbled together. Using the term "HD DVD player" on upconverting units. Poor sales rep education about the formats. They all lead to consumers really not even being exposed to either format.

I think both sides are near decent price points for hardware -- it's time to start flushing some cash over to the retailers and buy some floor space. I like the Walmart idea with a big flat screen, big HD-DVD/Bluray sign, a movie playing on a player and all the available titles stacked neatly around it. Sure this costs money, but guaranteed people will at least know what HDM is if they see this bad boy in the store. Even if it's just to influence a future purchase... it would work.

they must have watched HD DVD's only, so they dont really see the big differences between HD and upconverted dvd's


is this a feeble attempt of being funny? :confused:

There's one central issue here from which all others spring. The public isn't ready for HD media. Why? Because the same entities that want to sell it have failed to set the table. These same entities control the TV networks that have held back the HD transition for the better part of 2 decades now. If the major networks were all-HD already, it would lend some reality to the notion of HDTV.

It's too hard to get HD unless you go straight home and hook the bleeder to an antenna and something HD is actually on.....PBS is your best bet..... :rolleyes: Cable companies are driving away customers with miserablely bad set-top boxes that cost too much a month. They're passively resisting their mandate to service those few, thoughtful customers who bought an HDTV with a Quam tuner and want to actually use it, so it would appear. It's just push, push, push the super-sized meal, their way more profitable set-top box. Quam-mit! ;)

Direc wants folks to drop their far-from-worn-out HD equipment, incur additional expense for new HD equipment, and then recieve a pitiful few more exciting HD channels like, well blow me down, the Weather, aka Disaster Channel, CNN, TBS. What an exciting proposition, not! My mom says she'll never switch till they offer an MPEG4 DirecTivo. I'm tempted to feel that way too.

Half the population doesn't give a big, fat, steamin' crap about TV beyond the news and sports, if even them. They don't care how TV elvolves and are just P'ed that prices went up on sets. They proably, mostly, don't want set-top boxes to interfere with the simplicity of their TV remote.

HDTV hasn't even come close to being made easy enough for civilians! It's got to be so easy that, "you don't even have to think". Remember, this is Estados Unidos, terra de wed-neck wabbits...."what's up doc". Let's just leave at civilians just want s-i-m-p-l-e Tee-Vee.

The industry simply hasn't set the table properly. Belch me bay-bay! They've been so deluded and preoccupied with devising a grand scheme for windfall profits off the back of the Digital Transition. They forget all about how to market it and sell it.

When there's somethin' amiss with the indians, take a look-y at the chiefs.

Looks like somebody's milk ran out while trying to eat Cheerios this morning! :rolleyes:

Looks like somebody's milk ran out while trying to eat Cheerios this morning! :rolleyes:

That doesn't seem like an at all nice thing to say. Excuse moi! (place explecative here) you!

Adding one more thing to this. Like someone said before most drama's and cartoons doesnt look that much different in hd than an upconverted dvd. To me the only movies that look really good in hd is action movies but again this is my opinion

HD DVD and Blu-Ray are going to have a hard time competing against up converting players.

"You mean this $99 DVD player does 1080p with my normal DVDs? Well thats the same as those other players which cost over $300 and even then I'd have to pay more for each movie!"

I know there is a market for up converting players, but they are going to hurt both HD DVD and Blu-Ray in the long term.

Hey,

I think all it takes is seeing some movies on High Def Optical Media. From what I've seen Blu Ray and HD DVD offer better quality then most of what you could get from HDTV cable sources.

I have lots of DVD's (about 600) and read in the past that once you see HD you won't want to watch DVD's again but it took more then just 1 film in HD to have that affect on me. Upconverted DVD can look better then DVD at native res of 480p ( or 480i depending on what's actually on the disc sometimes) but once you've seen a handfull of movies on HD you can't stand it much anymore.

I find now there's more available then I can afford (doesn't take much) so I'm blessed with the ability to buy only HD (Blu Rays actually but I mean HDMedia.) And I'm happy to trade DVD's 10 to 1 for HDM.

-Brian

This article is interesting. It's a survey of the holiday "wish lists" of Canadians (sure they may be a different demographic that Americans) but it's still interesting if only for this:

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/October2007/02/c7313.html


TORONTO, Oct. 2 /CNW/ - Canadians' love affair for all things digital is
in full bloom - over 80% identified a digital lifestyle product as an item on
their wish list leading up to the Christmas season according to a national
survey by Solutions Research Group.
Following a robust back-to-school period, Canadian consumers are
optimistic and confident, suggesting a very strong Christmas period - 80% say
they have about the same or more money to spend for leisure or lifestyle
purchases up 7-points from 73% saying the same thing last year.
Among the findings of the research:

The top three wish list items overall were: (No. 1) flat screen high
definition TV set - on the wish list of 30%, followed by (No. 2) a
new digital camera (21%) and (No. 3) a new laptop (20%).

- Rounding out the top 10: (No. 4) a new cell phone, (No. 5) a new
desktop PC, (No. 6) digital video camera, (No. 7) Nintendo Wii,
(No. 8) Apple iPhone, (No. 9) a Blu-ray or HD DVD unit and (No. 10)
a GPS Navigation unit for the car.


As it has been said. Q4'07/Q1'08 will be interesting.

I don't thin $200 or even $150 is the "magic" number not when the average DVD player sells at $50 and the low low end models go for $28 bucks.. I don't think VHS players ever got that low. Infact I think the last VHS player walmart sold was a 2head mono player they still wanted $40. At the time the lowest DVD player was $34.99..

So pepole can buy a whole DVD player for the spare room or 1 HDM movie for the same price..

I think what also hurts is if you but a HDM player at BB what's the first thing they do. try to sell you on the $99 monster cable and 2-3 year extended plan.

I think the players need to fully work at all times what I mean by this is no more firmware updates. I would guess it will irate new unknown buyers. " I have to wait 10-30 minnites to download a update just so I can play this new movie.
DVD dosent have that I'm taking this thing back"

Couldn't have said it better myself !

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I think it's a waste of money for someone with a 42" or smaller TV to buy into any high-def disc format. From a normal viewing distance, the improvement will be subtle *at best*. Combine that with the added cost of the hardware and software, limited availability/selection of software, and incompatibility of software on other DVD players you own and it seems pretty sensical for the average consumer to not give a darn about high-def discs.

My opinion:

TV programs provide a big difference between SD and HD, be it 720p or 1080i, even on an EDTV. A big factor is the 16:9 vs. 4x3 AR.

Movies on 720p sets (or their cousins) do not have a big enough difference between upconverted DVD and HDM. They do not have the AR advantage. If I have to wait to get an HD rental, I am just as happy to get it in DVD. Lacking a decent sized 1080p display, I find the novel of HDM movies thin.


I agree
Until more homes have large format HD 1080p displays its going to be hard to get most casual purchasers to invest in either format.

The other side to this is more people are buying into HD every day and if you have a large format 1080p display you are not seeing what you need to see with upconverted DVD's.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I think it's a waste of money for someone with a 42" or smaller TV to buy into any high-def disc format. From a normal viewing distance, the improvement will be subtle *at best*. Combine that with the added cost of the hardware and software, limited availability/selection of software, and incompatibility of software on other DVD players you own and it seems pretty sensical for the average consumer to not give a darn about high-def discs.

On my 37" LCD, 10 ft watching distance, the colour rendition (but not the resolution) is clearly apparent when playing HD material.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I think it's a waste of money for someone with a 42" or smaller TV to buy into any high-def disc format. From a normal viewing distance, the improvement will be subtle *at best*. Combine that with the added cost of the hardware and software, limited availability/selection of software, and incompatibility of software on other DVD players you own and it seems pretty sensical for the average consumer to not give a darn about high-def discs.

I think you are right - for most 'casual' viewers HDM probably is a waste of money, at least for now. I am fortunate to have a 37" LCD 768p HDTV, a 60" 1080p LCOS RPTV, and a 1080p LCOS front projector beaming onto a 120" cinescope screen. My experience is that on the smaller LCD set, the difference between HDM and SD DVD is negligible; on the LCOS RPTV the difference is material; on the front projector the difference is enormous.

So, in the short to medium term, the market for HDM seems largely limited to the installed base of 50"/60"-and-up HD-capable displays. Will that be enough to secure the sucess of the two formats? If the historical president of laserdisc is any indication, then the answer is 'yes'!

I still believe both HDM formats are here to stay, that dual-format-capable playeres will become 'de riguer', and that SDDVD and HDM will co-exist as complementary formats in the marketplace for may years.

I still believe both HDM formats are here to stay, that dual-format-capable playeres will become 'de riguer', and that SDDVD and HDM will co-exist as complementary formats in the marketplace for may years.
I'm pretty much in agreement with with your predictions.

In My Humble Opinion:

Upconversion whilst it can be GOOD, it NEVER delivers the results of true HD.

The weaknesses are all the more apparent in DVD now especially with the increasing number of 1080p displays. Even on an SD plasma the improvements from DVD to HDDVD is like night and day.

Unless you have high end video processors, high end disc players etc which most common consumers cannot and will not afford, DVD is simply not good enough for the new displays. PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

The publics willingness to accept mediocrity is absolutely annoying beyond belief.

Maybe on the 1080p displays DVD is not "good enough". I got a 50" 720p display a year ago and some of the DVDs upconverted are simply amazing. I het HD through my satellite carrier here in Canada and some of the movies I PVR are very similar to the DVDs upconverted. Some are and some aren't. I am onboard for HDM when one format emerges. To say that DVD is not good enough though does not apply (this is subjective of course) to some titles which are simply amazing to watch upconverted. The Pixar and Dreamworks animation are some examples and some of my Superbit and THX certifed discs are pretty nice to view. I am just shy of 7' away from my 50" set and at a "normal" viewing distance a lot of DVDs look more than okay.

Again, I am a believer in HDM and will get a 1080p set one day in the 55"-60" range. For now a 720p player would fit the bill and the A-2 would be a nice pick-up. I still hate that not all titles are in one HDM format.

My prediction: HD adoption will be slow this year in the US. Why? If you have room for a display, most likely you already have one. It is very hard for one to retire a 3-year old display for a newer model. While you can afford it, you cannot justify it. This is why they have trade-in in cars. You feel less guilty about getting a new one. Furniture and larger TV sale usually go with new homes. They are created empty, and thus space to be filled. With the slow down in housing, not much room to fill.

HD DVD and Blu-Ray are going to have a hard time competing against up converting players.

"You mean this $99 DVD player does 1080p with my normal DVDs? Well thats the same as those other players which cost over $300 and even then I'd have to pay more for each movie!"

I know there is a market for up converting players, but they are going to hurt both HD DVD and Blu-Ray in the long term.

that about sums it up. we need to show everyone this site i found at blu-ray.com to get ppl on the hdm bandwagon. http://www.zonadvd.com/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=749

The publics willingness to accept mediocrity is absolutely annoying beyond belief.

Agree that HDM is materially better than upscaled SD DVD, but the latter is hardly mediocre! SD DVD has been a worthy flag carrier for 'best available picture' for over a decade.

Broadcast 480i television .... now THAT'S mediocre!!

Agree that HDM is materially better than upscaled SD DVD, but the latter is hardly mediocre! SD DVD has been a worthy flag carrier for 'best available picture' for over a decade.

Broadcast 480i television .... now THAT'S mediocre!!

Agreed! 480i TV blows.... I end up watching more 480i broadcasts than I like because there is a documentary or History channel show that I find interesting. I watch these channels up here in Canada that aren't in HD here yet (at least not on Bell Express Vu my satellite carrier): TLC, National Geographic, History, Showcase etc. I have been watching Saving Grace (with the cool Holly Hunter) and I only get it in SD!:(

DVDs are not such a bad thing after watching enough SD... Thankfully there is a fair bit of HD on (especially shows like House, CSI, ER, Two & A Half Men etc) that I can PVR all sorts of cool HD content. I have 2 full time HD movie channels that I PVR all sorts of flicks from.

Sorry, I went on a tangent again. It is surprising how many DVDs come close to the HD versions I see on my movie channels. I'm sure that HDM would be even better than the HD versions though. I am all ready for HDM when the "war" ends...