I close on my new house (new construction) tomorrow morning. DirecTV is coming to install (standard installation) on Saturday Oct 6 (9 days).

I've just heard that the dual-tuner HD-DVR requires 2 seperate input lines from the "central box" in my house...

Well, my brand-spanking-new house, complete with finished basement, has 1 and only 1 co-ax output sticking out of the wall in the "Family Room" where I want to put the DVR. I'd like to avoid having the technician drill holes in my brand new walls and floors as much as possible...


1) Is it true that 2 seperate inputs have to come from the box? That the line can't simply be "split" right in front of the DVR?

2) If not, what will "standard installation" get me?

3) Does anybody know of any minimally-invasive tricks to prevent as many new holes in my brand new walls as possible, without having wires running along all over my floors?



Is there anything out there that can be done?

1. True. It's always been that way. Only recently have they talked about a single cable solution but it is still months away. And if you want OTA, then get a 3rd line run. I have close to 30 lines run to a single location for 3 DVRs, OTA, subwoofer, RF video, composite video, component video and analog audio. Then there is speaker, IR and other control wires. A little bit of reasearch in during the building stages is great. My electrician drilled the holes and allowed me to run all of the cable I wanted in a single weekend.

3. Wait for the single wire solution.

-Robert

1. True. It's always been that way. Only recently have they talked about a single cable solution but it is still months away. And if you want OTA, then get a 3rd line run. I have close to 30 lines run to a single location for 3 DVRs, OTA, subwoofer, RF video, composite video, component video and analog audio. Then there is speaker, IR and other control wires. A little bit of reasearch in during the building stages is great. My electrician drilled the holes and allowed me to run all of the cable I wanted in a single weekend.

3. Wait for the single wire solution.

-Robert

Robert,

thanks for the quick reply. One question, what does "OTA" stand for?

Over the air, aka an antenna to receive local OTA broadcasts.

The single wire multiswitch (SWM) is what you need and it is NOT I repeat NOT months away. The DirecTV CSRs have been notified of its availability. I am getting a new installation next Saturday WITH the SWM. I have not switched before because of the 2 wire problem but now it is thankfully solved. I have confirmed BOTH with DirecTV and the local installer here in Houston that I will be getting a SWM. I suggest that you do the same.

The single wire multiswitch (SWM) is what you need and it is NOT I repeat NOT months away. The DirecTV CSRs have been notified of its availability. I am getting a new installation next Saturday WITH the SWM. I have not switched before because of the 2 wire problem but now it is thankfully solved. I have confirmed BOTH with DirecTV and the local installer here in Houston that I will be getting a SWM. I suggest that you do the same.

I would LOVE to do that...

However, I just called a DTV CSR... truly a terrible experience, you would have sworn I'd ask her to solve a partial differential equation or provide the air-speed velocity of an african swallow...


I described my problem (or tried to) to her, as I have you... the difference is, you guys immediately understood my problem... after I spoke to this rep for more than 10 minutes, she gave me VERY LITTLE satisfaction, and certianly never mentioned any sort of single-wire-multiswitch. Is there any more information out there about this that I could see/read? This is fantastic news if true... All I'm saying is the [moron] service rep I spoke to just 10 minutes ago did not mention it.

Satellite and cable companies have the uncanny ability of hiring an almost uniform group of low IQ people ignorant of the product they are supposed to service and sell. My experience in three different cities across the country have been the same. Gross incompetence, horrible customer service, and indifference and/or ignorance with regard to their products.

The average AVS or Dbstalk poster has a wealth of knowledge compared to the average cable or satellite employee. I try to cut them out of the process as much as possible. I have always gone directly to the cable service center in order to get the equipment I want. If I relied on them to bring it to me they would bring me refurbished obsolete crap.

I was fortunate enough to speak to a CSR who actually seemed competent, knowledgable, and friendly (yes I know a shocking event). Despite getting what I want, I have confirmed numerous times since because I do not trust these idiots to get anything right. Just a couple of weeks ago, I was inquiring about ordering DirecTV and one of their CSRs flat out told me that I could not get 3 HR-20s and 1 H-20 despite the fact that I would be paying them almost a friggin GRAND in upfront costs. When you are dealing with that type of stupidity, pull the plug, roll the dice, and see if you hit the jackpot and find someone who knows their head from their ass.

I would LOVE to do that...

However, I just called a DTV CSR... truly a terrible experience, you would have sworn I'd ask her to solve a partial differential equation or provide the air-speed velocity of an african swallow...


I described my problem (or tried to) to her, as I have you... the difference is, you guys immediately understood my problem... after I spoke to this rep for more than 10 minutes, she gave me VERY LITTLE satisfaction, and certianly never mentioned any sort of single-wire-multiswitch. Is there any more information out there about this that I could see/read? This is fantastic news if true... All I'm saying is the [moron] service rep I spoke to just 10 minutes ago did not mention it.

psuKinger, you just gotta understand. These CSRs are now in the big time making $7-$8 dollars an hour (gotta keep those profit margins up, ya know)! :eek: When they were hired by D* a month or so ago, they were working at Mickey D's or Burger Bugger making $5.25 an hour. This is a major move in upward mobility. They were given a D* "training course" on all the products and services offered for their first 4 hours on the job and then told to "go get 'em"! :rolleyes:

On the D* website, it is quoted that when you sign up for HD service, you may receive a H(HR)20 or H(HR)21. My understanding is that the new soon to be offered H(HR)21 has the single line installation you are looking for but the down side (for me and some others) is that they will not have an OTA tuner as the H(HR)20 has.

If you can get to talk to a CSR that has an IQ over 20, doesn't drag their knuckles on the floor or breathe through their mouth, maybe you can ask them about this new equipment that will address your needs (although they probably don't even know it's on their website). Good luck. :)

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPageNR.jsp?assetId=P4370038

Almost forgot. A little trick I learned back in the 80's. Too late for you now but you may want to consider it if you ever build/remodel again. In my last two homes I built, I included a 3 or 4 inch wide length of PVC pipe in the wall behind where my HT equipment was to go. Fortunately, I had attic space above. It dresses out nicely where it comes out just above the base moulding and provides permanent wiring access to your HT equipment. ;)

Well, I do have two cables running from the "outside" in to my distribution box... and it still just doesn't make sense to me that once in the house and at the HUB, the signal can't be split BEFORE the satellite box. I bought this: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103928&cp=2032057&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032057&categoryId=2032057&kwCatId=2032057&kw=digital+splitter&parentPage=search (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103928&cp=2032057&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032057&categoryId=2032057&kwCatId=2032057&kw=digital+splitter&parentPage=search), so I'm going to give that a try. If it doesn't work, I'm out $13, no big deal. I'll post on this thread and let everyone know if it does...


If it doesn't, I've made up my mind that no one is drilling holes in my brand new walls... I'll let them run a 2nd wire from my "HUB" (or some people call "Distribution Box", which is in my basement) to my BASEMENT tv location (no holes needed), and I"ll simply wait for the SWM to come out before I move the HD-DVR to it's desired location (the Family Room).


Installation is on Saturday, I"ll let those who are interested know how it goes shortly after...

It won't work, you can't split runs from the dish. Basically each tuners sends a combination of voltage and signal to the dish to tell it what group of LNB's it needs to see based on what channel you tune. Each tuner needs an independent line to the dish or they step on one another.

You'll want 4 runs from the dish location to your distribution box to feed the SWM.

PennHORN - The SWM is out in limited availability.

It won't work, you can't split runs from the dish. Basically each tuners sends a combination of voltage and signal to the dish to tell it what group of LNB's it needs to see based on what channel you tune. Each tuner needs an independent line to the dish or they step on one another.

You'll want 4 runs from the dish location to your distribution box to feed the SWM.

PennHORN - The SWM is out in limited availability.

I requested an SWM, at PennHORN's encouragement, and was told I was FOS and that it wasn't available. The CSR's acted as if I was from Mars, and then got irritated that I was pressing them for "something extra".

Most of the CSR reps I've spoken to so far have been downright rude... the last time I called, I was promised a phone call from a technician in my area who would be doing the installation... no call came. I hate calling CS. Very unpleasant. It's sad that the descriptions that many of you gave above arn't all that far from the truth...

First of all, you need to ask to talk to advanced tech support for HD issues...you will be transferred.

Secondly, running additional lines is no big deal, it's a couple of holes (or a wider hole) in your wall base or head plate, and then another wall plate mounted to the wall. They sell double RF jack wall plates.

Thirdly, barring the brand new SWM solution, you will still need to run multiple lines, two for any DVRs and another for OTA HD if you want to take advantage of that. I assume you ordered an HD installation, when you say standard, it implies you are just getting an SD installation.

Am I correct in assuming that the HR20 will work with a single input but you will only have access to one tuner? Certainly, that's how the dual tuner Tivos work. I have multiple dvrs in the house and don't need all of them to have both tuners activated.

First of all, you need to ask to talk to advanced tech support for HD issues...you will be transferred.

Secondly, running additional lines is no big deal, it's a couple of holes (or a wider hole) in your wall base or head plate, and then another wall plate mounted to the wall. They sell double RF jack wall plates.

Thirdly, barring the brand new SWM solution, you will still need to run multiple lines, two for any DVRs and another for OTA HD if you want to take advantage of that. I assume you ordered an HD installation, when you say standard, it implies you are just getting an SD installation.

ok thanks guys, you guys are ultra-knowledgeable about this stuff, I appreciate the info. I learned earlier in this thread that "OTA" means "Over the Air"... am I correct in understanding that "OTA" is the only way to get Locals (and HD-Locals, very important to me), and that "OTA" will require an additional "line" to every room I want locals (IE, the HD-DVR needs 2 lines to operate, 3 if you want OTA, the other 2 receivers need 1 line to operate, 2 if I want OTA)?

I am going to call DTV CS 1 more time tonight before my installation tomorrow, and ask to speak to advanced technical support... and I will ask them the following:

I'm getting 1 HD-DVR, 1 HD Receiver, and 1 Standard Receiver (with the probability that I will add a 2nd Standard Receiver sometime within the next couple of years). Assuming I don't use an SWM, and that I want OTA at all 3 receivers:

1) How many "lines" do I need going from my satellite to my Hub
2) How many "lines" do I need going from my Hub to the HD-DVR
3) How many "lines" do I need going from my Hub to the HD-Receiver
4) How many "lines" do I need going from my Hub to the Standard Receiver

I'm currently under the impression that, with no SWM, the answer to that is 2, 3, 2, and 2, respectively.


Then I'll ask the exact same four questions, but this time with a single-wire multiswitch... I'm assuming that if I install an SWM at all 3 TV's, I should need only 1 wire at each spot (including OTA's), but that the number of lines from the satellite to my Hub should go up (mjones indicated 4 before... is that 4 per receiver or 4 total for all 3 receivers?)


Anybody here care to comment? Your knowledge is much appreciated.

Solution 1 requires individual runs from each tuner back to the dish
1) 4 for the dish, 1 for the OTA antenna if you plan to install it on the roof, 5 total
2) 3 - If you want to diplex OTA into one of the feeds, you need to install the BBC module for the HR20 before you diplex the OTA feed in, in that case only 2 runs are needed.
3) 2 - If you want to diplex OTA into the feed, you need to install the BBC module for the H20 before you diplex the OTA feed in, in that case only 1 run is needed.
4) 1 - SD receivers don't tune digital OTA, unless you are in a very small market, D* probably carries your locals in SD anyway.

Solution 2 requires 4 runs to the SWM from the dish
1) 4 for the dish, 1 for the OTA antenna if you plan to install it on the roof, 5 total
2) 1 - you can diplex in OTA with SWM though I'd keep OTA on a seperate feed if possible, the BBC module is not needed when using SWM.
3) 2 - If you want to diplex OTA into the feed, you need to install the BBC module for the H20 before you diplex the OTA feed in, in that case only 1 run is needed.
4) 1

Matt,

Wanted to ask a clarifying question on your swm option above... since it is slightly different from other discussions I've seen regard the SWM...

I've seen other post imply that in a 'typical' case... you would be able to have a single run/cable from your dish (with its built in multiswitch) to the SWM. From the SWM, you could then run two cables to two tuners (either both in single DVR, or separate boxes). This helps with folks who already have single cable runs within their walls and can't/don't want to pull additional cable thru...

In your example, you mention that you would bring all 4 runs from the dish to the SWM? What is this really doing? And will the SWM really take that many cables in?

And secondly, for the HD-DVR (#2 above) don't you need two cables from the SWM still from the hub? Otherwise you would have an empty sat tuner on that box.

This leads me to an add on question about whether SWMs will be cascadable? In this HD-DVR case for example... could a single run from the SWM/hub be run into a second SWM just behind the HD-DVR to then feed both sat tuners on that box?

Nevermind... as noted in a similar thread, I think I figured it out...

The SWM is acting as a regular multiswitch in the sense that its giving access to all the dish outputs... so it needs the 4 runs from dish the same as any other multiswitch would today...

From the SWM tho, you could run the single line to any receiver location... and then at the receiver, you could 'split' the single line into two (as in the case of feeding both HR20 sat inputs).

So, for my add on question... since the SWM seems to only send out one line, it doesn't make sense that it would be cascadable... the more interesting question is how much splitting can you do on the output of the SWM?

For psuKinger's case... the 4 dish feeds go to the SWM, the SWM could also diplex in OTA... the SWM feed then would have to feed say a 3 way splitter at his hub... each feed from that splitter could go then to the various receivers.

For the standard receiver, that's it... For the H20, you'd need a 2-way splitter just behind the box to separate sat from OTA. For the HR20 you'd need a 3-way splitter... to get two sat lines and an OTA line.

you could use the box with one line (one tuner) until the single line switch becomres avaiable to you.

Dish uses a separator for their two tuner receivers when you have one cable at that location. Works good as I am watching it right now. I find it hard to believe Direct tv doesn't do the same.

Directv has a solution that is available in limited availability, should be available everywhere shortly.

I actually ran three lines to each HD DVR to ensure I can have OTA channels.

The single wire multiswitch (SWM) is what you need and it is NOT I repeat NOT months away. The DirecTV CSRs have been notified of its availability. I am getting a new installation next Saturday WITH the SWM. I have not switched before because of the 2 wire problem but now it is thankfully solved. I have confirmed BOTH with DirecTV and the local installer here in Houston that I will be getting a SWM. I suggest that you do the same.

PennHORN, have you gotten your SWM installed yet? How is it? Has reality lived up to the promise?

Regarding the SWM 15' minimum length - how would this apply to my application as follows:

I have a single homerun coax cable run from the dish to my H20 which I want to replace with an HR20. I suppose I would unplug the coax from the H20, plug into the SWM, and then plug two cables from the SWM to the HR20, all in the same location.

Is it that simple for my simple application or am I missing something?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Are there any specific problems I should look for if I hook up an HR20 DVR with just one coax cable coming into it? I know I won't be able to use the dual tuner capability which is OK as long as I can record HD programming.

I just found out that the SWM will not work for my configuration.

writenick - You need 4 runs from the dish to the SWM, the SWM would not go at the location of the HR20, you'd probably end up installing it at the dish location in your case.

So to summarize... if you have a single coax at an internal wall going to the HR20 there is no way to watch or record two shows at a time. The only way to get the HR20 to work as designed is to have two separate coax lines coming directly into the HR20.

Until you can get a SWM, yes, that is correct.

Dont really mind two cables except the installer had to drill an extra hole into the wall.