I am having some trouble with my crown molding. I have watched a few tutorial videos and I undestand the process completely. I am having one of two problems.
1. I may not be getting the crown flat against the botton and side of the saw which is causing inprecise cuts. The crown I have has a very small surface that contacts the ceiling and wall. This makes it hard to get square in the saw. Plus the back rail of the saw is a little short which makes it even harder.

2. I may have gaps because the corners are not 90 degrees. I can find out by purchasing an angle protractor (or whatever it is called).

Any suggestions for placement in the saw? I'm still working on my 1st piece. One corner matches perfect, the other side does not. Scrap the piece and start over.

You can try making an auxiliary backstop for your saw with some scrap 1X lumber to make a taller stop.

It also helps to put a pencil mark on the fence or the base to insure that each piece is being cut at the same angle. If you have more than a couple of cuts to make it is worth the time to use a block at the bottom instead of a pencil mark to insure that each piece is against the fence at the same angle.

I'm not an expert, but Norm doesn't miter inside corners. He cuts the longer run square, i.e. 90 degree flush to walls, the cuts the shorter run ends at 45 degrees and copes the end to fit. There's a small special wood saw like a hacksaw called a coping saw you use to backcut the angled end to the profile of the already mounted piece. When he does it, it fits perfectly and doesn't even need caulk. My first attempt was not so good, but it was still easier than getting a miter joint to work right.

Coping doesn't work for outside corners; you'll have to perfect your miters for those! But Norm also always reminds Steve to put the molding on the chop saw upside down and backwards, and measure twice, cut once...

Have fun!

Mike

above post is correct, because of geometry, you will NEVER be able to miter an inside corder (it is not 90 degrees to get peaks and valleys to meet, you will need slightly less than 90). (you can see this by imagining a peak, where the material is high, it will meet, where it is low, you will see raw wood) ---***for the post police: I know you can cut inside 90's on some types of crown, but it still requires perfectly square walls to line up right and probably caulk, neither of which you need to get an ultra-tight fit with coping---***

Upside down and backwards is all you need to know for outside corners and they should be nice and tight and dont suffer the geometry problem of insides because all the peaks and valleys are moving away from each other.

Coping is a skill that you can learn and should learn if you are doing a full room. Cut your 45 degree, then BACKCUT (cut back into the RAW WOOD, using the opposite 45 degree, but getting only the raw wood, like you would be making an outside corner). The cut away everything that looks like wood (i'm assuming it is primed white), dont cut any white off, can cut at a 45 degree angle inward (again, like you were doing an outside corner). So you are left with a very fine edge that has traced the primed white part, that will fit perfectly in the other piece. Its not as bad as it sounds because you only have to get 4 cuts right instead of 8 (ie, with miters you have 2 cuts per corner, with coping, one piece is flat and just butts up to the wall, the second is the one you cope that mates with the first).....

Thanks for the replies. That makes sense. I searched and watched a video of how to do coping on crown as well. Can I use a hand help coping saw or do I need a powered one? If powered...what the heck do I need?

I misread your original post and assumed you were coping the joints. An inexpensive handheld coping saw does fine. Try it on a few scrap cuts first until you get the hang of it and cope one end before cutting the other end to the finished length, that way you get more than one whack at it without winding up too short. The last piece up is the hardest because it will have two coped ends.

Use the handheld it works better also. Cut your straight edges with the electric saw first if needed.

yeah, definitely handheld saw...the coping blades are very sharp and cut like butter.

and definitely make the "first" piece of crown on a run the coped piece so that you can keep shortening it as you mess up, adding scarfed pieces behind it to make the full run to the next corner.

You might also consider a jig system like this:

http://www.cutncrown.com/

above post is correct, because of geometry, you will NEVER be able to miter an inside corder (it is not 90 degrees to get peaks and valleys to meet, you will need slightly less than 90). (you can see this by imagining a peak, where the material is high, it will meet, where it is low, you will see raw wood) ---***for the post police: I know you can cut inside 90's on some types of crown, but it still requires perfectly square walls to line up right and probably caulk, neither of which you need to get an ultra-tight fit with coping---***

Upside down and backwards is all you need to know for outside corners and they should be nice and tight and dont suffer the geometry problem of insides because all the peaks and valleys are moving away from each other.

Coping is a skill that you can learn and should learn if you are doing a full room. Cut your 45 degree, then BACKCUT (cut back into the RAW WOOD, using the opposite 45 degree, but getting only the raw wood, like you would be making an outside corner). The cut away everything that looks like wood (i'm assuming it is primed white), dont cut any white off, can cut at a 45 degree angle inward (again, like you were doing an outside corner). So you are left with a very fine edge that has traced the primed white part, that will fit perfectly in the other piece. Its not as bad as it sounds because you only have to get 4 cuts right instead of 8 (ie, with miters you have 2 cuts per corner, with coping, one piece is flat and just butts up to the wall, the second is the one you cope that mates with the first).....

When you cut your 45 degree angle before coping, are you laying the molding in your saw upside down and backwards to cut the 45, then cope it? Or, do you lay it flat and do the 45 degree miter cut?

I am having some trouble with my crown molding. I have watched a few tutorial videos and I undestand the process completely. I am having one of two problems.
1. I may not be getting the crown flat against the botton and side of the saw which is causing inprecise cuts. The crown I have has a very small surface that contacts the ceiling and wall. This makes it hard to get square in the saw. Plus the back rail of the saw is a little short which makes it even harder.

2. I may have gaps because the corners are not 90 degrees. I can find out by purchasing an angle protractor (or whatever it is called).

Any suggestions for placement in the saw? I'm still working on my 1st piece. One corner matches perfect, the other side does not. Scrap the piece and start over.

For problem 1 if you still have problems and you are using a compound mitre saw there are referance tables with the proper angles that you can use to set both the bevel and mitre that allow you to place the moulding flat on the saw base and achieve the proper cut.

Here is one link with a ton of the referance tables http://www.altereagle.com/Crown_molding.html

for the first 45 you lay it upside down and backwards, for the 2nd 45 (the one i said was like cutting an outside 45) you just want to remove a bunch of extra material quickly so you dont have to cope through so much, its just a back cut, so it doesnt matter how its done.


When you cut your 45 degree angle before coping, are you laying the molding in your saw upside down and backwards to cut the 45, then cope it? Or, do you lay it flat and do the 45 degree miter cut?

An additional tip- if you need to adjust your cut after coping, use a wood rasp.

Thanks again for all of the tips! I think the biggest obstacle right now is getting the molding flush on the saw each time. I'm going to try to clamp on a guide board. I may move on to base and chair rail first to get warmed up for the crown then go back to it. :)

If you have issues with outside corners, I have seen professional trim guys take a couple of short pre mitered pieces around the room with them and put them up to judge whether to make the cut more open or closed.

For inside, as mentioned it is definitely best to cope and you will screw it up the first couple of times. It might also be a good idea to take some scrap pieces and do it a few times for practice. Also, someone touched on it a little, but definitely make your cope cut on each piece first, then cut the sqaure end to length in case you screw up while cutting the cope.

Anyone have suggestions on coping? I tried to cope some of my base molding. I didn't have any clamps, so I tried holding the molding in my lap while using one hand on the coping saw. Not the best method. Do most lay it flat on a bench or table and clamp it down so they have two hands to guide the coping saw around the outline?

If you are still having problems cutting crown I suggest you use the method outlined at www.compoundmiter.com. The book you will purchase coupled with the "True Angle" tools will allow you to easily measure and perfectly cut crown molding. The crown I installed in my theater room was my first attempt at crown and I promise all you'll need is a compound miter saw. You simply measure the angle with the "true angle" tool and cross-reference that angle to the miter angle and blade tilt as outlined in the book. Adjust your compound miter saw accordingly and cut. The book clearly shows you which way to turn the crown and which side of the blade to place the crown depending on whether it's an inside or outside corner ... right or left side. You WILL acieve perfect cuts every time. I also did the video thing but had no success. A few pictures of my results are posted at the site. Good luck ...Then again you will not need it !!!

although this is true, that if you know the correct angles and your miter saw is actually accurate (most of the angles are not even, like 22.5 degrees, etc) then you can cut it correctly without coping, BUT your walls still have to be perfectly square for the valleys and peaks on detailed crown to line up properly...if the room was built by a DIY'er it probably has a good shot at being square (since we dont know better and actually TRY to square things up, lol), if it was built by a construction crew....good luck.


If you are still having problems cutting crown I suggest you use the method outlined at www.compoundmiter.com. The book you will purchase coupled with the "True Angle" tools will allow you to easily measure and perfectly cut crown molding. The crown I installed in my theater room was my first attempt at crown and I promise all you'll need is a compound miter saw. You simply measure the angle with the "true angle" tool and cross-reference that angle to the miter angle and blade tilt as outlined in the book. Adjust your compound miter saw accordingly and cut. The book clearly shows you which way to turn the crown and which side of the blade to place the crown depending on whether it's an inside or outside corner ... right or left side. You WILL acieve perfect cuts every time. I also did the video thing but had no success. A few pictures of my results are posted at the site. Good luck ...Then again you will not need it !!!

Is a compound miter saw a must? Compound meaning the blade can tilt?

If you are still having problems cutting crown I suggest you use the method outlined at www.compoundmiter.com. The book you will purchase coupled with the "True Angle" tools will allow you to easily measure and perfectly cut crown molding. The crown I installed in my theater room was my first attempt at crown and I promise all you'll need is a compound miter saw. You simply measure the angle with the "true angle" tool and cross-reference that angle to the miter angle and blade tilt as outlined in the book. Adjust your compound miter saw accordingly and cut. The book clearly shows you which way to turn the crown and which side of the blade to place the crown depending on whether it's an inside or outside corner ... right or left side. You WILL acieve perfect cuts every time. I also did the video thing but had no success. A few pictures of my results are posted at the site. Good luck ...Then again you will not need it !!!

I'm going to second this quote. I just did my first crown job in a living room. I used 5" crown molding with a lot of detail. With my true-angle tool (I bought the 18" model) and a compound miter saw (I was lucky enough to be able to borrow a double compound saw), and every joint I cut fit perfectly and looks great. I needed no caulk, and the complete countour lined up properly. Sure, some of the angles to set on the saw might be fractions, like 33.7 degrees but you just eyeball it. You measure the angle with the tool, look up the saw settings for that angle, set the saw, and cut. Everyone told me how hard it was going to be - this made the job quick and easy....

I need to either try the coping method or locate a compund miter saw.

http://oldelexington.com/2004-06-30-0022.jpg

solves the problem quickly....only straight cuts after these are used.

I need to either try the coping method or locate a compund miter saw

I vote for coping - it's cheap - you only need a $10 saw. There are inexpensive ($30-40) jig systems available at Lowes and HD that can help you cut the angles properly on a non-compound saw, which solves your original problem. Then you just cut the excess out of the back side of the angle-cut piece and as someone said above, use a rasp to fine tune the fit.Take the time to practice coping a few pieces. It's not too hard - if I can do it, you can too. I even taught my 14 year old son to do it and he did one of the joints in my theater room by himself. LTL's advice in post 5 summarizes the steps very well. Non coped inside joints can separate more due to normal seasonal changes in the wood (moisture content) even with the best-cut compound mitered joints, unless you live in a place where the humidity is the same year round.

I vote for coping - it's cheap - you only need a $10 saw. There are inexpensive ($30-40) jig systems available at Lowes and HD that can help you cut the angles properly on a non-compound saw, which solves your original problem. Then you just cut the excess out of the back side of the angle-cut piece and as someone said above, use a rasp to fine tune the fit.Take the time to practice coping a few pieces. It's not too hard - if I can do it, you can too. I even taught my 14 year old son to do it and he did one of the joints in my theater room by himself. LTL's advice in post 5 summarizes the steps very well. Non coped inside joints can separate more due to normal seasonal changes in the wood (moisture content) even with the best-cut compound mitered joints, unless you live in a place where the humidity is the same year round.

OK. I'll give it a go that way.
Is this what I am looking for? I didn't see anything like that at HD the other day.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10565&cookietest=1

For the price, I may look at cutncrown.com and get the protractor and jig.

I by no means am an expert but have put crown in my entire house and theater. I would recommend this book and measuring tools:

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=10886&filter=crown%20moulding EDIT: Just saw people rec this book above.

HD and Lowes carry the book too.

If you are going to go with paint grade crown or composite it is quick and easy to miter all corners, caulk as needed and paint. If you get a good quality caulk it should not crack. If you are going the hardwood route it is much better to cope. Hardwood is more susceptible to shrinkage and the caulking will crack. Paint grade/composite is more stable.

Also if you can swing a compound miter saw your life will be much easier that using a jig.

RxMan1,

I don't think you have said, do you need to do inside corners or outside corners? I believe you only need to cope inside corners. You still mitre outside corners.

We must be pretty close in our projects. A few weeks ago I tried to start putting my crown molding around the top of my columns. My first attempt didn't go so well. So I decided to put it off and do my baseboards first. I'm almost done with them, so I'll have to face the crown molding again soon. I did buy the book and protractor tool mentioned above, but haven't looked at it yet. Hopefully they will help.

Guy

I am going to be doing inside and outside corners. Four colums total, two on each wall. I will look for that book at HD or Lowes. I am going to be painting the crown, so that will help.