So I just finished reading a thread about the Onkyo 605 and it was brought up over and over again about 5.1 vs 7.1. Some mention being a purist and only listen to 5.1 because that is the way the movie was meant to be heard and the back 2 speakers(channels) are "fake" because they are matrixed. Others say 7.1 is the way to go. When you go to a movie theater there are always more than 2 surround speakers. Are these additional speakers matrixed as well or do they each have their own channel of information sent to them?

With a 7.1 setup you need some space behind your listening position for those two extra speakers to make it worthwhile.

When your home theater room is the size of a movie theater I do not think that even 7.1 will satisfy you.

When you go to a movie theater there are always more than 2 surround speakers. Are these additional speakers matrixed as well or do they each have their own channel of information sent to them?Each speaker doesn't have independent information. In commercial theatres, the speakers are broken down into 2 arrays (left, right) or sometimes 3 arrays (left, right, back). Using the latter as an example, all the speakers on the left wall of the theatre get the same left channel signal. Ditto all the speakers on the right side and the array of speakers behind you.

It's different at home, where each of the 4 surrounds in a 7.1 set-up get a different signal (albeit matrix derived). 2 surround channels are scaled to 4 surround speakers. Think of it like video scaling, where 480i material can be scaled to a 1080p display. You're not simply repeating information but matrix deriving additional scan lines.

Sanjay

In addition to what sanjay points out about the speaker arrays in most theaters (SR/SL, or SR/SL/SB);

Some mention being a purist and only listen to 5.1 because that is the way the movie was meant to be heard and the back 2 speakers(channels) are "fake" because they are matrixed.

This is erroneous logic. Surround sound began with Dolby Surround which is matrixed and is very much intended to be heard in a surround sound system. Matrixed just means matrixed, not "fake." DD EX soundtracks are very much intended to be heard played back with a matrix-derived rear channel in EX equipped theaters, and there is nothing "fake" about it simply because it is a matrixed rear-surround channel.

A purist, if he/she were honest about the intent of the content creators, would very much be advocating the utilization of these matrix encoded channels wherever possible, not shying away from them. The idea that only discrete channels count as "real" is silly, and reflects an uninformed point of view.

Now, applying a matrix decoder to extract channels from audio that was not expressly and purposefully mixed with that in mind, the purist certainly has an argument there in terms of 5.1 audio that was not mixed in EX or the like (or stereo that was not mixed in Dolby Surround/PL). But that's a very different question then the specific one presented here, and also one where there is a differing perspective, but where there certainly is some merit to the argument that sticking to 5.1 (or stereo as the case may be) is more accurate, though it's not a clean-cut case.

Re "matrixing" 6.1 or 7.1 centre rear(s) speaker(s)...

Would the decoder in the receiver "strip out" information from the available side surround information or merely add part of the available side surround channel information & direct it to the rear centre(s)?

Doug,

The processing extracts (strips out) sounds from the side speakers that would have normally phantom imaged behind you, and sends those sounds to the rear speakers. It then phase-inverts the rear sounds and sends that signal back to the side speakers to cancel out those specific sounds. This way, rear information comes from behind you only, not from the rear and sides (which would make directionality less distinct). The information that wasn't cancelled remains in the side speakers.

The advantage is that you are no longer relying on phantom imaging for rear sounds, like you would with a 5.1-speaker set-up. Because those sounds are coming from actual speakers, you can be seated anywhere on your couch and those sounds will always appear to come from the correct direction: behind you. You don't get that sort of imaging stability with only 2 surround speakers, hence the reason for using 4 surrounds.

Sanjay

Lexicon explains it as ambience attraction. Russ Hershelmenn always said: "It is hard to be surrounded by sound with just two speakers".

Lexicon explains it as ambience attraction.Close. They refer to it as ambience "extraction", where all the surround information comes from the recording itself. They use that term to distinguish it from other types of processing technology, such as ambience "generation", which adds reverb and early reflection to simulate a larger listening space. That's the type of processing used in Lexicon's studio/pro gear, and ported to their consumer surround processors.

Sanjay

only listen to 5.1 because that is the way the movie was meant to be heard

Actually, most movies these days are meant to be heard in 6.1. I know of no commercial movie production that generates two separate rear surround channels. 6.1 is worth it for those movies that are ES/EX mastered. If you go 7.1, you get the same signal in both rear channels.

Close. They refer to it as ambience "extraction", where all the surround information comes from the recording itself. They use that term to distinguish it from other types of processing technology, such as ambience "generation", which adds reverb and early reflection to simulate a larger listening space. That's the type of processing used in Lexicon's studio/pro gear, and ported to their consumer surround processors.

Sanjay


Opps, typo bro. How are you anyway man? I may relocate in Cali soon.

Opps, typo bro.Sure buddy, sure. How are you anyway man? I may relocate in Cali soon.I'd doing well. I'd be happier if you relocated to the SoCal area. How are things in Mesa?

Sanjay

Mesa was good to me, but Modesto may be my next stomping grounds. We will have to get together, maybe go tour Dolby Labs or something.

Sanjay,

Tx for the explanation - I figured that might be the case.

OT ?? (... sorry)

How would my Yam RXZ-1 (digital input) "interpret" & "translate" all of the newer DD & DTS HD sound formats?? ( I know I have a 6.1 mono rear centre)
Would the Yam be able to regognize & then process them?
or
Would it just process them as a greater bandwidth DD & DTS 5.1/6.1?