Not yet - but I would never consider a BD player until it was 1.1/2.0 compliant.


I beg to differ.

Looking at the multiple threads about Transformers lock ups, it appears the 'cookies' and other web enabled features have joined the ranks of PC gremlins that have now found their way into HD DVD players (and soon Blu Ray players). I see these cookies / internet downloads cause delays in playing the tracks, player lock ups and freezing.

I look at my Panny 1.0 BD player as the last of a true BD movie player. The machine plays movies great and no lock ups ever...I would see moving to the next step (1.1, 2.0) as a liability at this point..

I think it's a pretty safe bet that we likely won't see any BD 1.1 players for a long time, yet.

And I certainly won't be buying any BD 1.0 players, particularly at that price.

And I certainly won't be buying any BD 1.0 players, particularly at that price.

I'm pretty confident your non-purchase won't be missed. :)

I beg to differ.

Looking at the multiple threads about Transformers lock ups, it appears the 'cookies' and other web enabled features have joined the ranks of PC gremlins that have now found their way into HD DVD players (and soon Blu Ray players). I see these cookies / internet downloads cause delays in playing the tracks, player lock ups and freezing.

I look at my Panny 1.0 BD player as the last of a true BD movie player. The machine plays movies great and no lock ups ever...I would see moving to the next step (1.1, 2.0) as a liability at this point..

Well Jeff - that is your opinion and I respect you for it. I don't agree with it but that's what makes horse races.

I look to the future for the success of HDM. I can visualize many cool things that IF can do and access. The list is almost endless.

I have been into HT since 1983. Got real serious in 1990 by building a dedicated FPTV HT so it is been along time that I have enjoyed HT as it can be. Plus I am a true movie lover since 1963.

Yet at 56, I want something different. I want the technology to change - to enrich the presentation. I want to see 4K D-Cinema in both 2D and Dual PJ 3D. And I want to see how successful Hollywood can be using the IF feature.

So as I understand your feelings about the movie presentation (been there, done that, bought the T-Shirt) - I personally want more. And I am willing, at this point, to put up with some of the problems that implementing this feature can produce. That is the main issue of being an EA - more patience than the general public concerning things that are terchnical.

Sounds like you have no need for BD+ either then ... ;)

Sounds like you have no need for BD+ either then ... ;)

Not sure BD+ applies to this discussion. This is all about features that enhance the movie presentation. BD+ DEFINITELY does not do that;)

I beg to differ.

Looking at the multiple threads about Transformers lock ups, it appears the 'cookies' and other web enabled features have joined the ranks of PC gremlins that have now found their way into HD DVD players (and soon Blu Ray players). I see these cookies / internet downloads cause delays in playing the tracks, player lock ups and freezing.

I look at my Panny 1.0 BD player as the last of a true BD movie player. The machine plays movies great and no lock ups ever...I would see moving to the next step (1.1, 2.0) as a liability at this point..

There may be problems for some with TF, but as you know, regular people without issues don't come to forums to discuss how flawlessly their discs work. With an A2, I have had no problems with TF, combos, or any other HD DVD discs. I've downloaded a few things on TF just to see if it works, and it works fine.

The future of HD media offers some possibilities for online extras. That's fine with me, although not the reason I purchase movies. The reasons I want a 2.0 player are twofold. For one, I want to be sure all past and future titles play fine, and I won't be convinced until discs with 1.1 and 2.0 features are released. Second, I want to have the ability to access all features of any future title, whether I think now that I'd like those features or not.

Believe it or not, there are some of us who claim to be waiting for BD-Live players that have legitimate reasons. I don't really care if BD or HD DVD win this thing or if we have a dual future. What I do want is to know that future features will be fully supported by my player of choice.

Not sure BD+ applies to this discussion. This is all about features that enhance the movie presentation. BD+ DEFINITELY does not do that;)

It was a response to a deleted post ... doesn't make much sense anymore. :(

yeah, what's new for the BD camp?

One semi-decent BR player (PS3) with no idea if/when 1.1 will ever work. Every other player on the market is obsolete. I don't care what you think about special features, but if your player can't play them back and never will, it is OBSOLETE.

Even Warner has become so annoyed that they're re-encoding movies just to use PiP. Pretty sad if you ask me. We're going on a year and a half now.

yeah, what's new for the BD camp?

One semi-decent BR player (PS3) with no idea if/when 1.1 will ever work. Every other player on the market is obsolete. I don't care what you think about special features, but if your player can't play them back and never will, it is OBSOLETE.

Even Warner has become so annoyed that they're re-encoding movies just to use PiP. Pretty sad if you ask me. We're going on a year and a half now.

Will WBs releases use true PiP? I thought I heard they may try and fudge for BD.

I look at my Panny 1.0 BD player as the last of a true BD movie player. The machine plays movies great and no lock ups ever...I would see moving to the next step (1.1, 2.0) as a liability at this point.

No arguments with that sentiment.

Blu-ray 1.0 is a liability for the future and Blu-ray 1.1/2.0 is a figment of an engineer's imagination and has not been officially announced by a single manufacturer despite the "Oct 31 2007 Best Before" date stamped on EVERY existing Blu-ray player.

Even the "overwhelming studio support" of BDA hasn't announced a single title requiring (non-existent) Blu-ray 1.1 player and the big supporters, like Warner Bros, have instead offered titles like Terminator 3 with poor-cousin "in movie experience" where the ENTIRE movie is duplicated on the disc with the "secondary window" burned into the image for two hours.

Oh, yah. Now that's HD and the Future Delivered Today. :rolleyes:

Paramount, Transformers, affordable players, changes everything. :)

No arguments with that sentiment.

Blu-ray 1.0 is a liability for the future and Blu-ray 1.1/2.0 is a figment of an engineer's imagination and has not been officially announced by a single manufacturer despite the "Oct 31 2007 Best Before" date stamped on EVERY existing Blu-ray player.

Even the "overwhelming studio support" of BDA hasn't announced a single title requiring (non-existent) Blu-ray 1.1 player and the big supporters, like Warner Bros, have instead offered titles like Terminator 3 with poor-cousin "in movie experience" where the ENTIRE movie is duplicated on the disc with the "secondary window" burned into the image for two hours.

Oh, yah. Now that's HD and the Future Delivered Today. :rolleyes:

Paramount, Transformers, affordable players, changes everything. :)

I am surprised that WB would lower themselves to this (what were they thinking). Lionsgate did it and were criticized for it. These tricks are "not next generation" IMHOP.

yeah, what's new for the BD camp?

One semi-decent BR player (PS3) with no idea if/when 1.1 will ever work. Every other player on the market is obsolete. :eek: I can just see the minutes from that last meeting at Sony HQ... "What do you MEAN you can't get the &@^^%$$*ing BD 1.1 working on the &#^$%#@ing PS3!! Why couldn't you tell me that 6 months ago!?!"

As far as the double encode . . . I am sure that the BGA is thinking that something is better than nothing.

I am surprised that WB would lower themselves to this (what were they thinking).

Warner Bros did not lower themselves to anything.

Blu-ray simply hasn't delivered a single in-market player capable of Profile 1.1 -- such as playing a simple PiP that HD DVD has offered since Apr 2006. Not a single Profile 1.1 player is YET even announced -- let alone on store shelves -- despite a format expiry of Oct 31 2007.

What was Warner Bros thinking? Dreams of HD DVD, and sugar plums, no doubt. And, as a business ... they are churning out real content, today, capable of playing on real players. If BDA can't be bothered to adhere to its own schedules, Warner will release content consumers can actually play.

Would you buy high octane gas for your tractor that couldn't leave the station if it tried to run on it?

Will WBs releases use true PiP? I thought I heard they may try and fudge for BD.

no, they are not using true PiP

they are fudging.

They re-encode the whole movie with the PiP window and put another copy of it on the disc - Beyond High Definition huh?

I am waiting for my update with my PS3.

Hopefully the content will follow, and I do feel sorry for the folks who overpaid for the BD players.

Early adopter tax!

Warner Bros did not lower themselves to anything.Of course they have. They have lowered themselves to producing "IME" the only way Blu-ray's incomplete "standards" will allow: using a burned in PiP window. WOW!!...if that's not next gen...:rolleyes:

Going to be interesting if this issue explodes in the media. Headlines such as 'all current Blu Ray players are obsolete' would dampen player sales a bit...

Warner Bros did not lower themselves to anything.

Blu-ray simply hasn't delivered a single in-market player capable of Profile 1.1 -- such as playing a simple PiP that HD DVD has offered since Apr 2006. Not a single Profile 1.1 player is YET even announced -- let alone on store shelves -- despite a format expiry of Oct 31 2007.

What was Warner Bros thinking? Dreams of HD DVD, and sugar plums, no doubt. And, as a business ... they are churning out real content, today, capable of playing on real players. If BDA can't be bothered to adhere to its own schedules, Warner will release content consumers can actually play.

Would you buy high octane gas for your tractor that couldn't leave the station if it tried to run on it?

You really should get your facts straight. LG has already stated that the new Dual Format player they are releasing shortly is going to be 1.1 compliant.

You really should get your facts straight. LG has already stated that the new Dual Format player they are releasing shortly is going to be 1.1 compliant.

Was that the $1999 or the $2599 player due in 2008? Then we have to consider 2.0 players at some point in 2008/2009 and beyond.

Blu-ray 1.0 is a liability for the future and Blu-ray 1.1/2.0 is a figment of an engineer's imagination and has not been officially announced by a single manufacturer despite the "Oct 31 2007 Best Before" date stamped on EVERY existing Blu-ray player.Not a single Profile 1.1 player is YET even announcedYou might want to read this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=868226) since there are a few BD-Video 1.1 and BD-Live players that have been officially announced. Also for anyone interested their is an owner review thread for the the LG BH200 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=926099).


Even the "overwhelming studio support" of BDA hasn't announced a single title requiring (non-existent) Blu-ray 1.1 playerDisney has announced a few BD-Video 1.1 and BD-Live titles for next year and from what I have read Resident Evil: Extinction will be the first Sony title (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=253707&postcount=3914) to use a secondary video stream.

There have been players and titles announced. But announcements don't make for a strong end-user experience.

There have been players and titles announced. But announcements don't make for a strong end-user experience.

With real release dates?

Announcing something means nothing without a firm release date.

They re-encode the whole movie with the PiP window and put another copy of it on the disc - Beyond High Definition huh?

That's hilarious. So basically there are 2 encodes, leaving 25GB for each? Way to use that disc space advantage.

That's hilarious. So basically there are 2 encodes, leaving 25GB for each? Way to use that disc space advantage.

This was done on the movie Crank, notice it is an 87 minute movie that fills a 50g disc

4 more days to go! any sightings of 1.1 players yet? HD DVD's $198 is already on display when they are selling then November 3rd. Any news on PS3 firmware update ?

4 more days to go! any sightings of 1.1 players yet? HD DVD's $198 is already on display when they are selling then November 3rd. Any news on PS3 firmware update ?

Well it did get worse. The latest on the Samsung 5000 now puts it at late December. Based on the track record of this player and what the Samsung Exec. told PC World (no 1.1 players till 2008) my bet is 2008.

And AFAIK there are NO 1.1 BD titles scheduled for 2007.:o

Hopefully, 1.1 is pushed back to 2009...Why ruin a good thing?

Hopefully, 1.1 is pushed back to 2009...Why ruin a good thing?

Nope. Andy Parsons specifically said in his last interview that the drop dead date stands at 10/31.

Nooooooooooooooooooooo.................................

I am afraid that 1.1 will bring about the afflictions effecting HD DVD... (freeze ups, cookies, lock ups, etc.) Keep it simple!

Nooooooooooooooooooooo.................................

I am afraid that 1.1 will bring about the afflictions effecting HD DVD... (freeze ups, cookies, lock ups, etc.) Keep it simple!

Don't worry - BD fans already experience those:D

Heh . . . no HD DVD movie has failed to play on ALL of a series of player . . . good milestone for BD:eek:

Even the "overwhelming studio support" of BDA hasn't announced a single title requiring (non-existent) Blu-ray 1.1 player and the big supporters, like Warner Bros, have instead offered titles like Terminator 3 with poor-cousin "in movie experience" where the ENTIRE movie is duplicated on the disc with the "secondary window" burned into the image for two hours.

Oh, yah. Now that's HD and the Future Delivered Today. :rolleyes:


I disagree :) What's more "Beyond High Definition" than 2 copies of the same movie. IMHO, that's "Double High Definition" which certainly has to be twice as good as "Beyond High Definition". If they only had the 4 layer quad layer 100 gig discs around, they could move that secondary window around the screen at will (well, at least to 3 different places). That would be "Quadruple High Definition" which would blow HD DVD marketing out of the water.

The future is indeed here today, until profile 1.1 rolls out in which case today's future is tomorrow's past, and next month's (or is that next year's) future is the real future, or something like that. In any case, you are doing entirely too much thinking. Just read the press releases and marvel at the Blu-ray juggernaut :D

4 more days to go! any sightings of 1.1 players yet? HD DVD's $198 is already on display when they are selling then November 3rd. Any news on PS3 firmware update ?
Look over here(dangles carrot to focus attention to Blu-ray profiles while HD DVD /Transformers lost to Blu-ray sales.......... again)

Don't worry - BD fans already experience those:D

Heh . . . no HD DVD movie has failed to play on ALL of a series of player . . . good milestone for BD:eek:

Yes, what was it for, a whole 4 days?

Tragic.

(or are you talking about the 12,000 LG players on the market?)

Look over here(dangles carrot to focus attention to Blu-ray profiles while HD DVD /Transformers lost to Blu-ray sales.......... again)

So not to go off topic as you are trying to do. Please tell us, of all those BD titles that were part of the BOGO - how many were 1.1 titles?:rolleyes:

So not to go off topic as you are trying to do. Please tell us, of all those BD titles that were part of the BOGO - how many were 1.1 titles?:rolleyes:
Let me turn this around.
How many(percentage) of HD DVD have PiP included ?
100% ?

Yes, what was it for, a whole 4 days?

Tragic.

(or are you talking about the 12,000 LG players on the market?)

Hey - you are the one who always say 1 is enough to be counted. So how about those 12,000 people? They get a Firmware upgrade yet?

Make a count of the people who can't play Liar's Dice yet? You do keep track of stats very well.;)

Let me turn this around.
How many(percentage) of HD DVD have PiP included ?
100% ?

Ah . . . avoiding the question are you? NONE would have sufficed.

Hey - you are the one who always say 1 is enough to be counted. So how about those 12,000 people? They get a Firmware upgrade yet?

Make a count of the people who can't play Liar's Dice yet? You do keep track of stats very well.;)

Liars Dice - yes, AFAIK it works on all players from the BD-P1000 onwards.

As for those 12,000 people - if they're not on LG's ass I can't help them. I agree with Fox - Panasonic has a Hollywood Test Lab for stuff like this for companies to ensure their product meets the specs.

As for the thread title - I'd just like to add that as of 10.31.07 all Blu-ray Disc titles will still be 1.0 profile compliant.

:)

Liars Dice - yes, AFAIK it works on all players from the BD-P1000 onwards.

As for those 12,000 people - if they're not on LG's ass I can't help them. I agree with Fox - Panasonic has a Hollywood Test Lab for stuff like this for companies to ensure their product meets the specs.

As for the thread title - I'd just like to add that as of 10.31.07 all Blu-ray Disc titles will still be 1.0 profile compliant.

:)

That''s funny - I seem to remember a video that contradicts you.

But to make sure the thread stays open . . .

At this moment in time - are there any 1.1 and 2.0 BD players that I could buy? We already know there are no movies encoded with them yet.

That''s funny - I seem to remember a video that contradicts you.

Oh really, what month was that from? May?

Oh really, what month was that from? May?

So now you are saying that everyone who has the POTC BD with the game has successfully played it? Or have many just not tried again because of the fustration they experienced?

So now you are saying that everyone who has the POTC BD with the game has successfully played it? Or have many just not tried again because of the fustration they experienced?

I don't know - I've never tried to play it and I have it.

I don't know - I've never tried to play it and I have it.

So how we doing on this question:

At this moment in time - are there any 1.1 and 2.0 BD players that I could buy? We already know there are no movies encoded with them yet.

So how we doing on this question:

You've never asked me that question.

There are no 1.1 or 2.0 movies released, what do you need one of those players for? Future proofing? Wait another month or two and get a DMP-BD30K or wait for the CES announcements in January.

You've never asked me that question.

There are no 1.1 or 2.0 movies released, what do you need one of those players for? Future proofing? Wait another month or two and get a DMP-BD30K or wait for the CES announcements in January.


"Just wait"

OK:D

So now you are saying that everyone who has the POTC BD with the game has successfully played it? Or have many just not tried again because of the fustration they experienced?
I personally had no problems on a BDP-S300 or BD-P1200.

I wonder if all players can play the new Transformers HD DVD with no problems ?(See HD DVD section for details. :))

I personally had no problems on a BDP-S300 or BD-P1200.

I wonder if all players can play the new Transformers HD DVD with no problems ?(See HD DVD section for details. :))

What you hear that TF's won't play on ALL 360 AO's or ALL A1's?

Haven't you noticed that someone always has a problem with every film released? Just look at both the HD and BD Software Forums.

But it did have IME and IF. How about SPM3? Any of those on the disc? No? I thought not.

"Just wait"

OK:DBe glad you don't have to.

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=195672&modelNo=Content10252007122010583&surfModel=Content10252007122010583