i am confused about the BD 1.1 deadline on 31st Oct, what does that mean actually? And will we see sales spike (that would help BD in the format war) after the deadline, because when a such deadline is hyped, presumably consumers will think that after the deadline, all players will be 1.1 compliant!

But then, we have numerous BD 1.0 players announced during IFA and CEDIA in CEs attempt to prevent making the deadline, so that they can continue to sell non BD 1.1 compliant players after 31st October?

Because this is the most likely scenario. I refuse to believe that CEs announced 1.0 players so that they can sell them in the remaining 31 days when most of the players have not seen the light of day!.

If indeed this is the case (BD 1.0 players announced prior to 31st October) can still be sold after the deadline, what is the point of having the deadline because even after the deadline, 100% of the standalone BD players sold will still be with the lesser spec of 1.0?

BD 1.0 players launched before the Nov 1st deadline can be sold *forever* as BD 1.0

There is no requirement that they *ever* be sunset or retired.

That is why there has been such a rush to get these "new" BD 1.0 players announced and into the market before the deadline. And also why the BDA changed the deadlines in the past, and most recently, from the April deadline, to Oct 31...

They don't have any BD 1.1 players ready and are having, reportedly, LOADS of problems getting any ready.

So long as Blu-Ray players remain incomplete and inferior to HD DVD counter parts I will not buy a Blu-Ray player.

As Rob said - the BD CEM's cannot announce a new BD player after 11/1/07 that is not at least profile 1.1 compliant. They can on 10/30 - but not on 11/2.

But 1.1 is only DS PIP and DS Audio. It is NOT 2.0 - Web enable. So will they actually try to sell a 1.1 only player? Only half of the special features will work.

For anyone who is curious about the Blu-ray player profiles here is a thread about them (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=868226).


And also why the BDA changed the deadlines in the past, and most recently, from the April deadline, to Oct 31...rdjam, there is no need to exaggerate and last I checked the deadline was only pushed back once from June 31 to October 31.


So will they actually try to sell a 1.1 only player? Only half of the special features will work.Just to point this out but that statement would only be true if half of the special features are internet extras.

What's the hurry...THe profile 1.1 players are far more reliable than HD DVD players...and at this point I'll take reliablility over PIP...and so will the non technical public who will simply want a stable player ofr HD movies...As far as I am concerned, the next profile should occur after BD has eliminated HD DVD.

BD should delay players with profile 1+ to post Q1 next year. By doing so they can be assured of 1 less major studio support. Profile 2 should be deferred to Oct of next year....that way we'll end up with one HD format by end of Q4 08.

So, delaying the advanced BD profiles seems like a good idea to me. Makes sense. Especially if HD gets their TL disks online before then.

What's the hurry...THe profile 1.1 players are far more reliable than HD DVD players...and at this point I'll take reliablility over PIP...and so will the non technical public who will simply want a stable player ofr HD movies...As far as I am concerned, the next profile should occur after BD has eliminated HD DVD.

After ALL your posts.. I still refuse to think that you are actually serious.

Do you even own a standalone BD player?

What's the hurry...THe profile 1.1 players are far more reliable than HD DVD players...
I see the profile 1.1 as a total mystery in regards of reliability. What all kinds of technical/practical issues can be seen in the future? I guess nobody really knows how the profile 1.1 players will perform.

After ALL your posts.. I still refuse to think that you are actually serious.

No worries, it's just typical blandspeak for "I hate HD DVD and will always try to influence others to hate it along with me using the majority of my posts", nothing more - thankfully though, he's does it so much, looks like nearly everyone knows it and hardly take his thoughts seriously...when you toss out more negative comments about the format you don't like vs the positive posts about the format you actually favor = a shining example of a sad fanboy. :D

I have never had a single problem with my A2, not the combo's, non combos, DVD's, etc. =)

What's the hurry...THe profile 1.1 players are far more reliable than HD DVD players

so, let me get this straight...if this is correct:

They don't have any BD 1.1 players ready

you're comparing the reliability of an unreleased, unqualified product with an established one? I only come into this forum to lurk, because it's pretty funny to see the blindly stupid things that come out of both rabid camps. this one pretty much takes the cake.

What's the hurry...THe profile 1.1 players are far more reliable than HD DVD players...and at this point I'll take reliablility over PIP...and so will the non technical public who will simply want a stable player ofr HD movies...As far as I am concerned, the next profile should occur after BD has eliminated HD DVD.

As someone who has both Panny BD player and an HD-A1, I find both to be equally reliable. I have had no issues at all with the HD-A1. It boots up a little slower than the Panny but that is all. Far more relaible? Give me a break. The only real plus I have noted with the Panny is it is easier to calibrate the analog audio outs. It took me longer to get the sound perfect from the HD-A1.

Update: The Samsung BD-UP5000 has been moved back to December. The BD-UP5000 is a dual-format player and with this new release date means it is a minimum 1.1 spec, but it has all the required hardware to be a 2.0 spec. This may confirm my assumption that the BDP-2400 was canceled because they couldn’t meet the Oct. 31 deadline.

http://wesleytech.com/samsung-bdp-24...-canceled/380/

What's the hurry...THe profile 1.1 players are far more reliable than HD DVD players...and at this point I'll take reliablility over PIP...and so will the non technical public who will simply want a stable player ofr HD movies...As far as I am concerned, the next profile should occur after BD has eliminated HD DVD.

Damage control 101

Even I Can see that and I'm a profile 1.0 owner

As far as I am concerned, the next profile should occur after BD has eliminated HD DVD.

So what your saying then is profile 1.0 should be the last one then??


Please be more clear, or better yet, shut off your computer and go run some more.

What's the hurry...THe profile 1.1 players are far more reliable than HD DVD players...and at this point I'll take reliablility over PIP...and so will the non technical public who will simply want a stable player ofr HD movies...As far as I am concerned, the next profile should occur after BD has eliminated HD DVD.
You've GOT to be kidding. There are NO BD 1.1 players - yet you make a claim that "they" (that don't exist) are more reliable???

Get real, bland...

Besides, if there WERE any BD 1.1 players, I think we ALL know that they'd be completely unpredictable and would all each run the same content differently and be full of bugs.

What's the hurry...THe profile 1.1 players are far more reliable than HD DVD players...and at this point I'll take reliablility over PIP...and so will the non technical public who will simply want a stable player ofr HD movies...As far as I am concerned, the next profile should occur after BD has eliminated HD DVD.

Well, enjoy the wait.

This may confirm my assumption that the BDP-2400 was canceled because they couldn’t meet the Oct. 31 deadline. Perhaps - but I think it's more likely that Samsung have figured out that there is not much of a market for BD-only players and they already have two on the market, so little point for a third. I don't think Samsung would have had any trouble at all getting this BD 1.0 player out in time - I just think they felt it would have not made enough sales to recoup the investment in manufacturing.

I think Samsung will focus their efforts more on Dual-format players from here on. That's where the real money will be next year. How about a nice Dual-format HQV player that outputs 24p from whatever you put in it, even DVDs?

And yes, it's possible that they will do an HD DVD player too.

No worries, it's just typical blandspeak for "I hate HD DVD and will always try to influence others to hate it along with me using the majority of my posts", nothing more - thankfully though, he's does it so much, looks like nearly everyone knows it and hardly take his thoughts seriously...when you toss out more negative comments about the format you don't like vs the positive posts about the format you actually favor = a shining example of a sad fanboy. :D

I have never had a single problem with my A2, not the combo's, non combos, DVD's, etc. =)

Sounds like a lot of HD supporters to me, all they talk about is Blu-Ray.

Perhaps - but I think it's more likely that Samsung have figured out that there is not much of a market for BD-only players and they already have two on the market, so little point for a third. I don't think Samsung would have had any trouble at all getting this BD 1.0 player out in time - I just think they felt it would have not made enough sales to recoup the investment in manufacturing.

I think Samsung will focus their efforts more on Dual-format players from here on. That's where the real money will be next year. How about a nice Dual-format HQV player that outputs 24p from whatever you put in it, even DVDs?

And yes, it's possible that they will do an HD DVD player too.


The 5000 can do 24P from either HD DVD or BD. No reason why it couldn't do DVD as well if a HD player can already do this.

The 5000 has the Reon HQV chip in it. The only thing it was missing were the BD profiles. If they have decided to delay it so they can add the 1.1/2.0 hardware and have a FW UP make it all profile compliant - then good for Samsung. At least one BD CEM is trying to deal with the profile issue seriously.

So we heard about the new Sony BD players at IFA and CEDIA yet not a peep since. And to be compliant they have to street before 11/1. Same thing with the Loewe BD player.

What's the hurry...THe profile 1.1 players are far more reliable than HD DVD players...and at this point I'll take reliablility over PIP...and so will the non technical public who will simply want a stable player ofr HD movies...As far as I am concerned, the next profile should occur after BD has eliminated HD DVD.
I bet the non technical public would rather spend between $199 - $299 on a player as opposed to paying a much higher price of $450+.

By the way, can you give us a review of a BD player with a 1.1 profile? I'd love to read it. Also, when will BD eliminate HD DVD? I'll just write down the date so I can prepare for it mentally. thanks

Sounds like a lot of HD supporters to me, all they talk about is Blu-Ray.

No argument from me, each side has their share of this, as well as their cheeleading captains.

Please don't feed thebland. It gets off by moronic trolling...

OOPS......I had a typo....read 1.0 instead of 1.1.....


.....Now back to bashing me :).

OOPS......I had a typo....read 1.0 instead of 1.1.....


.....Now back to bashing me :).

I think you are safe for now. They are busy in another thread bashing Beatboy (again).

You've GOT to be kidding. There are NO BD 1.1 players - yet you make a claim that "they" (that don't exist) are more reliable???

Get real, bland...

Besides, if there WERE any BD 1.1 players, I think we ALL know that they'd be completely unpredictable and would all each run the same content differently and be full of bugs.Pretty much my thoughts. More of the same bland. What a character!!...:o...I can't imagine he's truely as ignorant as his posts lead on.

I'm sure he writes such posts for the sole purpose of extracting such responses from the group. One thing I know for sure is he's not here to provide any sort of real information, debate, or other contribution. The only value I have found is that his posts are one more entertaining aspect of this stupid war...:D

Hey,

I wish they didn't do this new profile thing. I prefer to just watch the movie without super-imposed directors and actors commenting on it. So, I wish they hadn't started this new profile idea.

Still, my Ps3 will be update-able to whatever the finally decide upon as final and the sooner the better so we can get releases that are being held back by this.

-Brian

BD 1.0 players launched before the Nov 1st deadline can be sold *forever* as BD 1.0

There is no requirement that they *ever* be sunset or retired.

That is why there has been such a rush to get these "new" BD 1.0 players announced and into the market before the deadline. And also why the BDA changed the deadlines in the past, and most recently, from the April deadline, to Oct 31...

They don't have any BD 1.1 players ready and are having, reportedly, LOADS of problems getting any ready.

Loads of problems ?
Care to elaborate on the specifics or is this your general lobbyist propaganda statement
you seem to post regularly to spread FUD?

btw:
I agree and congratulate HD DVD for having their specs ready and released but their players
have issues to. These are a few I found for you. There's a lot more that even
new FW updates still haven't resolved. How many FW updates have Blu-ray players had to resolve there issues due to realiability or features ?
(Yes I know, your general comeback will be that they can't do PiP or web access but how well do they do their current features that are implemented.)


A20 problems (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=915081&highlight=issue)
A2 issues (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=766230&highlight=issue)
A20 stuck on welcome screen (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=885835&highlight=issue)
Can't watch movies - Error 408bc504 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=834960&highlight=issue)
XA2 power off by itself during movie playback (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=890618&highlight=issue)
Lip sync issues (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=912094&highlight=issue)
A30 issues - multiple error codes (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=910378&highlight=issue)
A20 dies after firmware update (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=908678&highlight=issue)
More XA2 lip sync issues even with new 2.5 firmware (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=907382&highlight=issue)



Perhaps - but I think it's more likely that Samsung have figured out that there is not much of a market for BD-only players and they already have two on the market, so little point for a third. I don't think Samsung would have had any trouble at all getting this BD 1.0 player out in time - I just think they felt it would have not made enough sales to recoup the investment in manufacturing.

I think Samsung will focus their efforts more on Dual-format players from here on. That's where the real money will be next year. How about a nice Dual-format HQV player that outputs 24p from whatever you put in it, even DVDs?

And yes, it's possible that they will do an HD DVD player too.


You think, you think and it's possible.....:rolleyes:

You talk like you are an insider and industry analyist but you mainly spread so much FUD with your speculations that it's insane.
Everytime you make posts like these, my A20 heats up....At this rate you might kill my A20.

Perhaps Samsung may release an HD DVD player but there has been no indications they will.
Also, if you haven't noticed, their 5000 player is listed as a Blu-ray player that can play HD DVD discs as well. Go look at the specs if you don't believe me. The packing list states you get a Blu-ray player.
The model is also BD-UP5000



Lee, where did you hear that the 5000 is being delayed til Dec.
I guess this would sort of be good news as they would have to be at least 1.1 compliant.

I agree that someone needs to step up and release a 1.1 player soon.

The profile situation is why I don't have a BD player yet.

For the sake of 2007 Xmas sales, the "battle" will be between existing models shipping in volume. Upcoming features on either platform are not relevant.

For HD DVD that includes 3 or 4 Toshiba models from about $250 - $750 and, possibly, a lower priced Venturer rumoured at street $150. There is choice for folks looking for 1080i features, 1080p features, and advanced Reon type upconverting.

For Blu-ray that includes profile 1.0 models from Sony, Samsung and a couple of others, mainly hovering around $450 - $600, and all, largely featuring the same features. There are no credible rumours of players to street under $400.

It doesn't matter about new players entering the market with spec 1.1 or 2.0 this fall since they will be niche of the niche ("niche to have" but not important overall). Consumers will be making their choices based on: price, availability and, to a lesser extent, specific movie choices. Cool features like Internet access have been demonstrated but not widely exploited yet; thus it becomes a matter of talking points over reality.

Plans are already being finalized for CES 2008 with last minute tweaking in November. Blu-ray will likely take that forum to do a big push for profile 1.1 and 2.0 promises later in the year. The Blu-ray studios will need to make good on some promises and be able to deliver the features in upcoming releases. You can also expect HD DVD folks to be touting wider spread HD DVD drives in laptops; much more extensive Internet features on high profile discs; and some cracks in the studio support as it is defined today.

The truth is that nobody outside of AVS or the few other sites involved in this stupid war even knows anything about profile 1.1. I am majorly involved through my purchases and I still don't understand what it is. But especially out in public where that means nothing and there is nothing advertised showing anything about profile 1.1.

For Blu-ray that includes profile 1.0 models from Sony, Samsung and a couple of others, mainly hovering around $450 - $600, and all, largely featuring the same features. There are no credible rumours of players to street under $400.


A couple Blu-ray players (new models, no EOL closeout) can already be found for under $420.

I'm not sure the 1.0 players have to be released before the 31st of October.

The front page of yesterday's Home Media Magazine simply said they need to be 'certified' before that date.

Can any BD-insiders clarify?

Do they just have to be announced?

Steve W

A couple Blu-ray players (new models, no EOL closeout) can already be found for under $420.

The cheapest one I am aware of that has ability for volume sales is the Samsung BDP 1400 with an MSRP $499 and streeting for an average $454 at the 11 vendors I track.

The truth is that nobody outside of AVS or the few other sites involved in this stupid war even knows anything about profile 1.1. I am majorly involved through my purchases and I still don't understand what it is. But especially out in public where that means nothing and there is nothing advertised showing anything about profile 1.1.

Ditto..... a worthless feature to be hung up on... Few. even here, could careless about 1.1 including myself....big whoop PIP.

The cheapest one I am aware of that has ability for volume sales is the Samsung BDP 1400 with an MSRP $499 and streeting for an average $454 at the 11 vendors I track.

Sony BDP-S300 and Sharp BD-H20U. Do a froogle search.

Sony BDP-S300 and Sharp BD-H20U. Do a froogle search.

the s300 needs to have truehd decoding ability to be worth a damn imo, esp with studios moving toward dropping lpcm in favor of truehd.

it does seem at least a couple of strong hd dvd supporters would go neutral when a profile 2.0 player comes out, really wish bda just get this out already. personally i couldn't care less about the PIP features and web capabilities, so i've already picked up a ps3 long ago. if i wanted to watch the extras i'd just watch them separately, i'm not at all interested in vh1 popup video on my movies.

i am confused about the BD 1.1 deadline on 31st Oct, what does that mean actually? And will we see sales spike (that would help BD in the format war) after the deadline, because when a such deadline is hyped, presumably consumers will think that after the deadline, all players will be 1.1 compliant!

But then, we have numerous BD 1.0 players announced during IFA and CEDIA in CEs attempt to prevent making the deadline, so that they can continue to sell non BD 1.1 compliant players after 31st October?

Because this is the most likely scenario. I refuse to believe that CEs announced 1.0 players so that they can sell them in the remaining 31 days when most of the players have not seen the light of day!.

If indeed this is the case (BD 1.0 players announced prior to 31st October) can still be sold after the deadline, what is the point of having the deadline because even after the deadline, 100% of the standalone BD players sold will still be with the lesser spec of 1.0?

Pathetic!:o

They will lose WB support over this.

I think you are safe for now. They are busy in another thread bashing Beatboy (again).


Thats because Beat makes it too easy.

They don't have any BD 1.1 players ready and are having, reportedly, LOADS of problems getting any ready.

Link please?

So long as Blu-Ray players remain incomplete and inferior to HD DVD counter parts I will not buy a Blu-Ray player.

Thanks for sharing that, though I'd be willing to bet even if it had a complete spec and 100% studio support you'd still back HDDVD.

Loads of problems ?
Care to elaborate on the specifics or is this your general lobbyist propaganda statement
you seem to post regularly to spread FUD?

btw:
I agree and congratulate HD DVD for having their specs ready and released but their players
have issues to. These are a few I found for you. There's a lot more that even
new FW updates still haven't resolved. How many FW updates have Blu-ray players had to resolve there issues due to realiability or features ?
(Yes I know, your general comeback will be that they can't do PiP or web access but how well do they do their current features that are implemented.)


A20 problems (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=915081&highlight=issue)
A2 issues (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=766230&highlight=issue)
A20 stuck on welcome screen (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=885835&highlight=issue)
Can't watch movies - Error 408bc504 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=834960&highlight=issue)
XA2 power off by itself during movie playback (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=890618&highlight=issue)
Lip sync issues (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=912094&highlight=issue)
A30 issues - multiple error codes (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=910378&highlight=issue)
A20 dies after firmware update (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=908678&highlight=issue)
More XA2 lip sync issues even with new 2.5 firmware (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=907382&highlight=issue)






You think, you think and it's possible.....:rolleyes:

You talk like you are an insider and industry analyist but you mainly spread so much FUD with your speculations that it's insane.
Everytime you make posts like these, my A20 heats up....At this rate you might kill my A20.

Perhaps Samsung may release an HD DVD player but there has been no indications they will.
Also, if you haven't noticed, their 5000 player is listed as a Blu-ray player that can play HD DVD discs as well. Go look at the specs if you don't believe me. The packing list states you get a Blu-ray player.
The model is also BD-UP5000



Lee, where did you hear that the 5000 is being delayed til Dec.
I guess this would sort of be good news as they would have to be at least 1.1 compliant.

I agree that someone needs to step up and release a 1.1 player soon. The difference is that HD DVD supporters are not afraid to mention these issues and get them resolved.

Almost anything you mentioned has now been firmware fixed or has been identified as an issue that Toshiba is working on.

Virtually every issue that came up has been resolved by Toshiba in a firmware update, including issues that only affected a few players or legacy equipment.

Try talking about a Blu-ray hardware issue on some other sites. You won't last long.

As Rob said - the BD CEM's cannot announce a new BD player after 11/1/07 that is not at least profile 1.1 compliant. They can on 10/30 - but not on 11/2.

But 1.1 is only DS PIP and DS Audio. It is NOT 2.0 - Web enable. So will they actually try to sell a 1.1 only player? Only half of the special features will work.


I seriously doubt studios will spend the time and money producing special features on discs for such a small percentage of players supporting the content initially. What I'm guessing will happen is that the players will get out there and common place over the next year, and over that same period discs will slowly start taking advantage.

The profile situation is why I don't have a BD player yet. Me too. :)

well...and the price. ;)

Show me a 2.0 profile BD-Live capable Blu-ray player for under $299 and you got my money.

I'll even finally take the 5 free Blu-ray movies too. :D

It'll be worth it to me to see the Sony, (and Fox and Disney) movies in HD. no mater what happens Sony would hold out for years as BD exclusive, so buying a Blu-ray player is the only way I'll see them on a HD optical disc before 2010 or so. Even though I can see them in upconverted SD DVD or HD cable or sat, I want to see them in HD DVD or Blu-ray.

Just show me the damn hardware and I'd burn some plastic.

Thanks for sharing that, though I'd be willing to bet even if it had a complete spec and 100% studio support you'd still back HDDVD.

"If... If... If..."

I'm not interested in the Blu-Fanboy dream scenario. I am only interested in what I can actually do with the products I buy, at this moment and for over the past year HD DVD has done what Blu-Ray can not. Because the facts are that Blu-Ray is not complete, it does not have 100% studio support, and HD DVD has been doing more despite the lower capacity and bandwidth, just look at 300, The Matrix.

And if your dream scenario came true and if all studios supported Blu-Ray and if Blu-Ray was a truly finalized spec and if specifications were finalized so I wouldn't have to triple dip on players then I would buy a Blu-Ray player. I've said from day 1 that I would buy a Blu-Ray player if the price dropped and the BDA got their act together and finished the specifications. However they have thus far failed to meet what HD DVD can do. Therefore they do not get my money and that is just the way it is whether you like it or not.

I am not going to pay more for less. Period

"If... If... If..."

I'm not interested in the Blu-Fanboy dream scenario. I am only interested in what I can actually do with the products I buy, at this moment and for over the past year HD DVD has done what Blu-Ray can not. Because the facts are that Blu-Ray is not complete, it does not have 100% studio support, and HD DVD has been doing more despite the lower capacity and bandwidth, just look at 300, The Matrix.

I'm really not interested in reading about your despise for blu-ray in every blu-ray related thread either, but I guess I am a glutten for punishment:p
Interesting, I could go on for an hour of things Blu-ray has done over the last year that HDDVD can not. Like releasing High bit rate AVC encodes with Uncompressed audio. Only when Studio's like WB cater to the inferior HDDVD spec does Blu-ray get the watered down Audio. I own both formats, and the only thing HDDVD seems to be doing more of, is depriving me of lossless audio, providing me with 2-3 star VC-1 filtered looking encodes and giving me content via web enabled that could have been included on the disc in the first place (had the space been there i. e: 30gb limitation).


And if your dream scenario came true and if all studios supported Blu-Ray and if Blu-Ray was a truly finalized spec and if specifications were finalized so I wouldn't have to triple dip on players then I would buy a Blu-Ray player. I've said from day 1 that I would buy a Blu-Ray player if the price dropped and the BDA got their act together and finished the specifications. However they have thus far failed to meet what HD DVD can do. Therefore they do not get my money and that is just the way it is whether you like it or not.

Heaven have mercy on HDDVD when BD's spec is finalized, because their "incomplete spec" is kicking HDDVD's complete spec 6 ways to tuesday as it is.



I am not going to pay more for less. Period

IMO you do now if you buy any HDDVD player over a ps3.

Ditto..... a worthless feature to be hung up on... Few. even here, could careless about 1.1 including myself....big whoop PIP.

I actually agree! Profile 1.1 does nothing of any intrest. Its a 2.0 profile BD-Live player that will matter.

Why have a phone, PDA, or game console these days without Internet access. Why have any kind of media player with out Internet access?

My bet is an Ipod will have 'net access long before any BR stand-alone. Oh wait...there is that Iphone thingy.

OOPS......I had a typo....read 1.0 instead of 1.1.....


.....Now back to bashing me :).

....my turn. CHEEEEEEZ...the guy can't even type.:D

What's the hurry...THe profile 1.1 players are far more reliable than HD DVD players...and at this point I'll take reliablility over PIP...and so will the non technical public who will simply want a stable player ofr HD movies...As far as I am concerned, the next profile should occur after BD has eliminated HD DVD.

How sad, then.:o There'll NEVER be a "next profile" BD player given those limitations!:cool:

Sony BDP-S300 and Sharp BD-H20U. Do a froogle search.

I don't get your point. Ok, so with a froogle search I get $438 for the Sony BDP-S300 currently at 1call; for the Sharp BD-HP20U I can get for $437 at American eSuperstore. Neither is below $400; certainly nothing remotely challenging entry level HD DVD.

But my point was volume sales potential (aka wide distribution such as BB, Wal-Mart, Sears, Target, Circuit City, Amazon and some 2nd tier players such as 1call, abt and ultimate) and average street price in those venues; same criteria applied to HD DVD as Blu-ray. Yes, you can always try to find a better deal somewhere (my pricing assumes free shipping/pickup).

There does not seem to be any player likely (at least not announced nor rumoured) to fall significantly below the $400 this season AND be widely available where that price point could impact overall sales.

Target could do that: but the deal as announced a few months ago called for Sony BDP-300 only to be sold in stores and at $499.

Ditto..... a worthless feature to be hung up on... Few. even here, could careless about 1.1 including myself....big whoop PIP.

I understand that some people on both formats do not really care about the extra features, etc. But personally I look at it this way, when I have watched my HD content and maybe get bored with it, I then can watch the extra content to increase my sense of pleasure with the films.

I usually do not watch the extras until a while after I have had the movies. I personally own both formats, but I prefer HD-DVD over BR. I have had just as many issues with BR as I have had with HD-DVD, minimal. Everyone is quick to say well this format has more issues than the other, but I feel the issues for the most part have to do somehow with the equipment used in conjunction with either format (Not counting combo issues). Non of the issues that I have experienced is going to stop me from ever purchasing more HD content because it is so much better than both SD and cable broadcasted HD.

Stop all the darn bickering about my d**k is bigger than yours. Enjoy which ever format you decide to support and wait for the others demise (if ever). Some of the post I have read reminds me of little kids arguing back and forth.

Profile 1.1 does nothing of any intrest. Its a 2.0 profile BD-Live player that will matter.Well personally speaking it is the opposite for me since I care little about internet extras but think that PiP decoding could be an interesting feature depending on how well it is done. And it is supposedly the reason that Warner has delayed releasing certain big name titles on Blu-ray since they want PiP included with them. Also just curious but how many HD DVD titles do you own that had internet features you liked and that couldn't have been put on the disc itself?

I seriously doubt studios will spend the time and money producing special features on discs for such a small percentage of players supporting the content initially. What I'm guessing will happen is that the players will get out there and common place over the next year, and over that same period discs will slowly start taking advantage.

I had read that a heads up display was on Transformers and more interactive content for Shrek like coloring in characters and such.This should give the underlings something to do for a few hours. I read you can then play the movie with the new colors.

Stop all the darn bickering about my d**k is bigger than yours. Enjoy which ever format you decide to support and wait for the others demise (if ever). Some of the post I have read reminds me of little kids arguing back and forth.

Ditto....I own both formats, purchase discs on both and enjoy both.


Most of the bickerers are single format owners (e.g. HD DVD only).

I'm really not interested in reading about your despise for blu-ray in every blu-ray related thread either, but I guess I am a glutten for punishment:p
Interesting, I could go on for an hour of things Blu-ray has done over the last year that HDDVD can not. Like releasing High bit rate AVC encodes with Uncompressed audio. Only when Studio's like WB cater to the inferior HDDVD spec does Blu-ray get the watered down Audio. I own both formats, and the only thing HDDVD seems to be doing more of, is depriving me of lossless audio, providing me with 2-3 star VC-1 filtered looking encodes and giving me content via web enabled that could have been included on the disc in the first place (had the space been there i. e: 30gb limitation).

Plenty of HD DVD's have lossless audio, and HD DVD gets movies which are >3 hours long w/ lossless audio. Despite the blu-talking points of higher bandwidth and capacity Blu-Ray has yet to out perform HD DVD. In fact HD DVD has out done Blu-Ray, just look at 300.

However you're right, WB catering to HD DVD does undermine Blu-Ray. It is one of the reasons why Blu-Ray didn't get lossless audio on Superman Returns and Happy Feet. Blu-Ray's incomplete specs is why HD DVD has The Matrix. However those are the faults of Blu-Ray, not HD DVD


Heaven have mercy on HDDVD when BD's spec is finalized, because their "incomplete spec" is kicking HDDVD's complete spec 6 ways to tuesday as it is.
HD does what BD can't. It is that simple



IMO you do now if you buy any HDDVD player over a ps3.

The PS3 is a good blu-ray player but a pitiful console. The 360 has more games which are of higher quality than the PS3. Yet again, a second area I am not willing to spend more for less.



My expectations for a Blu-Ray player are not unreasonable.
At minimum match what HD DVD can do, finished the specifications, lower the price. It is that simple.

It is not important what we want. The studios have already spoken. THEY want special features for HDM.

Argue all you want . . we are getting them whether we like them or not. A fact of HDM. So get over it already.

Plenty of HD DVD's have lossless audio, and HD DVD gets movies which are >3 hours long w/ lossless audio. Despite the blu-talking points of higher bandwidth and capacity Blu-Ray has yet to out perform HD DVD. In fact HD DVD has out done Blu-Ray, just look at 300.

However you're right, WB catering to HD DVD does undermine Blu-Ray. It is one of the reasons why Blu-Ray didn't get lossless audio on Superman Returns and Happy Feet. Blu-Ray's incomplete specs is why HD DVD has The Matrix. However those are the faults of Blu-Ray, not HD DVD



HD does what BD can't. It is that simple





The PS3 is a good blu-ray player but a pitiful console. The 360 has more games which are of higher quality than the PS3. Yet again, a second area I am not willing to spend more for less.



Before today started HD DVD did what Blu-Ray can't, at the end of the day HD DVD will still do what Blu-Ray can't. That is just the way it is whether you like it or not.

A comment like that tells more about the person making it than what they are talking about.:rolleyes:

A comment like that tells more about the person making it than what they are talking about.:rolleyes:

Yes, praising the PS3 for its Blu-Ray capability then slamming it for its lack of video games is a reflection on the person making the comment. Because from a gamers perspective, it is not up to par with the 360

And.... it is simply an accurate reflection on the reality of the PS3 situation.

What's the hurry...THe profile 1.1 players are far more reliable than HD DVD players...and at this point I'll take reliablility over PIP...and so will the non technical public who will simply want a stable player ofr HD movies...As far as I am concerned, the next profile should occur after BD has eliminated HD DVD.

Always a trooper :rolleyes:

Plenty of HD DVD's have lossless audio,

you can pretty much count em all off on your fingers and maybe a few toes.
Every Sony pictures group Title, Every Disney title, Every Fox Title, and Many Lionsgate support lossless audio....but you already knew that,;)


and HD DVD gets movies which are >3 hours long w/ lossless audio. So what happened with Kong? (BANDWIDTH!!!)


Despite the blu-talking points of higher bandwidth and capacity Blu-Ray has yet to out perform HD DVD. In fact HD DVD has out done Blu-Ray, just look at 300.
Implimentation is not the fault of the Blu-ray spec when PQ & use of lossy audio is concerned, however this is almost always the case on HDDVD. If your motto is "the look & sound of perfect" then shouldn't lossless audio fall under the sound of perfect? If not, then it's:

"The Look & Sound of Perfect....Sometimes, we'll do what we can do when we can do it"


However you're right, WB catering to HD DVD does undermine Blu-Ray. It is one of the reasons why Blu-Ray didn't get lossless audio on Superman Returns and Happy Feet. Not the fault of an incomplete spec, the fault of a lazy ass studio.


Blu-Ray's incomplete specs is why HD DVD has The Matrix. However those are the faults of Blu-Ray, not HD DVD
which evidently doesn't matter to blu-ray owners....300 is kicking ass and taking names on Blu-ray Disc. I've said it once, and I'll say it again, the only people who care about these supplimentary specs are people who slant toward HDDVD and have only one talking point to cling on to, but even that is going away soon...so then what?



HD does what BD can't. It is that simple
yeah....lose




The PS3 is a good blu-ray player but a pitiful console. The 360 has more games which are of higher quality than the PS3. Yet again, a second area I am not willing to spend more for less.

Credibility alert...lackluster content, i'll give you that....but give em til after Q4 to make that assessment, I even gave 360 the benefit of growing pains it's first year (which it had too) If next year this time it's the same story...then i'll agree with you. Pitifil console implies from a hardware standpoint that it stinks, and you and I both know it shits on even most gaming PC's from a spec standpoint....give it time.


My expectations for a Blu-Ray player are not unreasonable.
At minimum match what HD DVD can do, finished the specifications, lower the price. It is that simple.

agreed, and I think you will soon be a Blu-ray owner if what you say is true.

Ditto....I own both formats, purchase discs on both and enjoy both.

Bullshit. You spend most of your time on this board doing nothing but casting snide remarks at HD-DVD, so stop with the holier-than-thou "I enjoy both formats" crap. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I am always amazed at the concern HDDVD people show the BD people. While I don't mind people on both sides making positive spin posts for 'their' formats, can we please stop the thinly veiled digs at the opposition, whether it is the 'what if' threads, the fake 'questions' etc.

If you truly have a question about profile 1.1 and BD players, you either ask in the Blu Ray player group, or you could post the question in the insiders thread. Making it a whole new thread in the general discussion section for HDM is just to inflame.

Ditto..... a worthless feature to be hung up on... Few. even here, could careless about 1.1 including myself....big whoop PIP.

yupe same here, like 99% of the people out there, I dont give a poo about audio bits either. sooo we are even ? ;)

Bullshit. You spend most of your time on this board doing nothing but casting snide remarks at HD-DVD, so stop with the holier-than-thou "I enjoy both formats" crap. Nothing could be further from the truth.

I guess I am not the only one who found his comment a bit...wrong.

I am always amazed at the concern HDDVD people show the BD people. While I don't mind people on both sides making positive spin posts for 'their' formats, can we please stop the thinly veiled digs at the opposition, whether it is the 'what if' threads, the fake 'questions' etc.

If you truly have a question about profile 1.1 and BD players, you either ask in the Blu Ray player group, or you could post the question in the insiders thread. Making it a whole new thread in the general discussion section for HDM is just to inflame.

The reason we are concerned is because whichever format prevails everyone will be using it. In this case Profile and a few other issues quite noticably are a concern for all consumers if Blu-Ray becomes a primary hi-def format.

When I express concerns I'm doing it becuase I'll be forced to double dip or triple dip on players as well as regular folks out there that don't give a rats ass about 100% purity of the sound, but indeed care about whether or not they'll be paying $500 for a player they'll have to repurchase only a few months from now nad then again a year after that. I don't give a rats ass whether or not it affects you personally.

It's a simple fact HD DVD = completeness whatever player you buy it plays ALL features of the disk, no fuss no muss.. it is true hi-definition standard and it is cheap. Blu-Ray = profile issues, half-ass functionality and ridiculous pricing.

Yes, we have asked numerous questions at insider thread, but answers were never given, the questions were deleted or simply ignored.

And then you have this Blu-idiot coming out in public and saying that Blu-Ray profiles are really a non-issue, just a month or so after Sony issued a statement that said "Hey consumers, don't be dumb, it's better to pay more, because you know it's Blu-Ray", regardless that half of functionality that HD DVD offers simply doesn't work.

Ask HeavyHarmonies if he owns a player from the 'opposition' like I do .......I would bet not. 0at least I make comments from a perspective of owning and supporting both formats. He owns only one format (obviously content choices aren't important to him). That would certainly impede his senseless BD bashing....

BD guys should be very concerned about 1.1. PIP is going to be on discs. It can either be done by 1.1 players, or it can be done by having 2 full movies on the disc. Option one is a whole lot better in my opinion.

I think people coming to this forum to find out about HDM should be as fully informed as we can make them. HD DVD has satisfied their owners with PQ and AQ, and there's no reason to believe they are less critical than BD owners. However..

Ask HeavyHarmonies if he owns a player from the 'opposition' like I do .......I would bet not. 0at least I make comments from a perspective of owning and supporting both formats. He owns only one format (obviously content choices aren't important to him). That would certainly impede his senseless BD bashing....

Owning both formats does not make you unbiased.

Owning one format does not make you unbalanced.

Owning neither format does not make you irrelevant in discussions.

... any mountain monkey with some money can buy into a format for the sole purpose of bashing it. Funnily enough, you replied to a post calling for an end to the very thing you are guilty of.

Ask HeavyHarmonies if he owns a player from the 'opposition' like I do .......I would bet not. 0at least I make comments from a perspective of owning and supporting both formats. He owns only one format (obviously content choices aren't important to him). That would certainly impede his senseless BD bashing....

Lets be honest here. You own both formats and support one, you spend 100% of your posting time (IMHO) evangilizing BD. You use your position of dual-owning as a way to make your arguments more valid, when, in fact, they aren't any more valid than if you just owned BD. It's a little dishonest to see your position as anything but two-faced.

Apparemtly HeavyHarmonies isn't 'any Mountain Monkey'.... He only had HD DVD...

I think people coming to this forum to find out about HDM should be as fully informed as we can make them. HD DVD has satisfied their owners with PQ and AQ, and there's no reason to believe they are less critical than BD owners. However..Could it be that some people are satisfied with less? Or that their expectations are lower?

Could it be that some people are satisfied with less? Or that their expectations are lower?

Which format are we talking about?

Personally. I'd think the guy who owns both formats is less biased than the guy who owns only one and rails against the other.....

But that's just me..............

Personally. I'd think the guy who owns both formats is less biased than the guy who owns only one and rails against the other.....

But that's just me..............

Because a person who uses his hardware neutral bias as a free-ticket to bash one side exclusively somehow deserves a free ticket? It's self-deceptive to say that you are neutral, your posts show otherwise. You're trying to use your hardware neutral position to give yourself credibility, I think you lost that a long time ago.

At least the people who are one side or another are being true to themselves and don't try to be a faux fence sitter. Nice try, but I trust a political candidate's fence sitting before I'd trust yours.

Good God. You girls have been pissing on this tree all day. In that time, I watched (on the ever so inferior Blu-ray format): Memoirs of a Geisha (excellent PQ and a job well done by Sony), Black Book (has subtitles so some of you HD only boys will probably want to skip it so your lips don't get tired), and Pirates of the Caribbean (the first one -- again an excellent job done by Disney). Maybe you all should take a break from all this and watch some movies or something.

What's the hurry...THe profile 1.1 players are far more reliable than HD DVD players...and at this point I'll take reliablility over PIP...and so will the non technical public who will simply want a stable player ofr HD movies...As far as I am concerned, the next profile should occur after BD has eliminated HD DVD.

Considering there are absolutely ZERO (ie: none) Profile 1.1 players available, how is it that you know they are more reliable than HD DVD players? :confused:

EDIT: I see you updated that it was a typo ... why not edit your original post? :confused:

You are still here? I thought you were banned? I guess AVS has more loose requirements than blu sites. Any updates for the Tier thread?

He started it folks.

Ditto..... a worthless feature to be hung up on... Few. even here, could careless about 1.1 including myself....big whoop PIP.

If you could care less, doesn't that mean that you do in fact care? :D

you can pretty much count em all off on your fingers and maybe a few toes.
Every Sony pictures group Title, Every Disney title, Every Fox Title, and Many Lionsgate support lossless audio....but you already knew that,;)

Perhaps it's the exclusive studios trying to justify their choice?


So what happened with Kong? (BANDWIDTH!!!)


Nope, and nope ... look at the trendy for the studio ... they typically use DD+ ... why do you (and others) insist on raising this point that has been debunked several hundred times already? :confused:


Implimentation is not the fault of the Blu-ray spec when PQ & use of lossy audio is concerned, however this is almost always the case on HDDVD. If your motto is "the look & sound of perfect" then shouldn't lossless audio fall under the sound of perfect? If not, then it's:

"The Look & Sound of Perfect....Sometimes, we'll do what we can do when we can do it"


If you can't tell the difference between DD+ and TrueHD or PCM ... it might as well be perfect, no? I'm pretty sure that both formats have pretty excellent PQ/AQ ... so what's the point of spending 2-5x more? :confused:


Not the fault of an incomplete spec, the fault of a lazy ass studio.


Oh ... so the fact that the spec is incomplete which forces Studio's to cater to the least common denominator has nothing to do with the incomplete spec? :confused:


which evidently doesn't matter to blu-ray owners....300 is kicking ass and taking names on Blu-ray Disc. I've said it once, and I'll say it again, the only people who care about these supplimentary specs are people who slant toward HDDVD and have only one talking point to cling on to, but even that is going away soon...so then what?


Actually, the numbers are 2:1 or so, right? How is that 'kicking butt' considering the shear mass of PS3's out there and 300 catering to that demographic? Speaking of 'Talking Points', the BDA had a ton of them to start and now ... not so many ... it seems their talking points are slowly but surely being whittled down.


yeah....lose


:rolleyes:


Credibility alert...lackluster content, i'll give you that....but give em til after Q4 to make that assessment, I even gave 360 the benefit of growing pains it's first year (which it had too) If next year this time it's the same story...then i'll agree with you. Pitifil console implies from a hardware standpoint that it stinks, and you and I both know it shits on even most gaming PC's from a spec standpoint....give it time.


We'll have to see how this plays out ... PS3 is definitely behind the trend when compared to 360 and Wii.


agreed, and I think you will soon be a Blu-ray owner if what you say is true.

So you fill that Blu-ray will finish their spec and lower the prices 'soon'? Do you have an estimated date for this? Considering we're not likely going to see any Profile 1.1 players this year save perhaps 1 ... and likely no Profile 2.0 players at all ... do you consider 'soon' to be a year or so? :confused:

Ditto..... a worthless feature to be hung up on... Few. even here, could careless about 1.1 including myself....big whoop PIP.

The same could be said for lossless audio, no? Yet it seems BDA Supporters bring that talking point up quite often.

You are still here? I thought you were banned? I guess AVS has more loose requirements than blu sites. Any updates for the Tier thread?

He started it folks.

Did I get promoted yet?

Did I get promoted yet?

You definitely have to be in the Tier 0 group. You have the most cogent arguments on these threads.

Perhaps it's the exclusive studios trying to justify their choice?
Those who can Do ;)



Nope, and nope ... look at the trendy for the studio ... they typically use DD+ ... why do you (and others) insist on raising this point that has been debunked several hundred times already? :confused:
well you do the math, how do you figure they are going to squeeze in TrueHD when the disc is already maxed out with a lossy codec? Ahhh...yes, filtering..more VC-1 smoothies.:rolleyes:


If you can't tell the difference between DD+ and TrueHD or PCM ... it might as well be perfect, no? I'm pretty sure that both formats have pretty excellent PQ/AQ ... so what's the point of spending 2-5x more? :confused: Name one track in which there isn't a difference when both are on the same disc....ok, waiting...still waiting....why risk it? If it can be lossless GAURANTEED, then do it. It's really a weak ass argument. Why do HDDVD fanboys always insist that less is more? HDDVD started out of the gate pretty strong in comparison to those 15 or so low bit rate mpeg2 titles...but that was june 06. Have you not seen the trend pretty much over the entire last year, where HDDVD's get on average 3 stars (that is probably being generous) and BD's get anywhere from 4-5 on average? Oh and BD has kicked HDDVD's butt in audio since day one, and it always will due to the crippled bandwidth on it's "Complete spec".

Oh ... so the fact that the spec is incomplete which forces Studio's to cater to the least common denominator has nothing to do with the incomplete spec? :confused:
your smiley at the end here is appropriate, you are confused....whats 1.1 or 2.0 have to do with TrueHD or any audio codec for that matter? They have been ready to go since day one.


Actually, the numbers are 2:1 or so, right? How is that 'kicking butt' considering the shear mass of PS3's out there and 300 catering to that demographic? Speaking of 'Talking Points', the BDA had a ton of them to start and now ... not so many ... it seems their talking points are slowly but surely being whittled down.

According to you guys the ps3 don't count...or does it? will you guys make up your minds, Either way it's kicking your butt, nuff said.:)





We'll have to see how this plays out ... PS3 is definitely behind the trend when compared to 360 and Wii.
You think 360 and Wii will still be active sku's 8 years from now?
Yup, didn't think so..
Sony has 10 year cycles for their consoles...the ps3 is still in it's infancy and the 360 is bout 2 years from done and the Wii is already over the hill.



So you fill that Blu-ray will finish their spec and lower the prices 'soon'? Do you have an estimated date for this? Considering we're not likely going to see any Profile 1.1 players this year save perhaps 1 ... and likely no Profile 2.0 players at all ... do you consider 'soon' to be a year or so? :confused:

Because your name is Michael right? :rolleyes:
But since you asked, yes...I think by February or so your dream will come true. Meanwhile I'll be enjoying Spiderman 1,2,3, POTC 3, FF2, Die Hard Trilogoy, IRobot, Cast Away, and so on, and so on.
Have fun with the three hits on HDDVD, and keep on importing HDDVD's to prove your lame point, Lets see....stumbe through foreign menu's and overpay for them with insane shipping charges etc...or just buy a damn BD player....yeah the hassle of importing is worth it :rolleyes: Keep up with that buddy!

You really think the PS3 has some kind of special longevity? I'm really sick of the "just wait" remarks. The consumer won't just wait for the viable titles to get here when the 360 offers the same game, which looks graphically about the same (sometimes even better) at a lower price. I'm not sure why you Sony fanboys can't accept this. Apparently, you think the world is of the same mindset as you and that Sony sh*ts gold. The only area in which the PS3 is currently ahead is in hardware reliability.

The arguments for the necessity of lossless audio are also getting old. All such claims are worthless until one can point to some verifiable double blind testing to make such claims valid.

Those who can Do ;)


Not that strong of a point, really ... *shrug*


well you do the math, how do you figure they are going to squeeze in TrueHD when the disc is already maxed out with a lossy codec? Ahhh...yes, filtering..more VC-1 smoothies.:rolleyes:

Sorry, but this argument is still debunked. The PQ for King Kong was Reference, period. You have no idea if they would have been able to maintain reference quality or not by adding TrueHD. Remember, they would have *gained* the space used by DD+ to add TrueHD, so it's not like they would have needed to fit TrueHD only in what was left available. Since TrueHD decoding is mandatory in all HD DVD players (unlike in Blu-ray, where it is an option), Studios don't have to load up a bunch of different tracks and codecs to cater to least common denominator. So much for Blu-ray's capacity advantage when you have to throw a bunch of different things on the disc to make sure people can hear audio. :rolleyes:


Name one track in which there isn't a difference when both are on the same disc....ok, waiting...still waiting....why risk it? If it can be lossless GAURANTEED, then do it. It's really a weak ass argument. Why do HDDVD fanboys always insist that less is more? HDDVD started out of the gate pretty strong in comparison to those 15 or so low bit rate mpeg2 titles...but that was june 06. Have you not seen the trend pretty much over the entire last year, where HDDVD's get on average 3 stars (that is probably being generous) and BD's get anywhere from 4-5 on average? Oh and BD has kicked HDDVD's butt in audio since day one, and it always will due to the crippled bandwidth on it's "Complete spec".


Huh? If you can't tell the difference, why waste bits by providing both? It's funny how BDA Supporters say that no one wants PiP so it's a silly argument and it doesn't matter if HD DVD can do it ... yet they bring up the lossless talking point as if: (1) the majority of people cared and (2) more than a small minority could hear the difference anyways. Do you have any proof to back up your claims that HD DVD has gotten an average of 3 stars and Blu-ray and average of 4.5 YTD? I'd like to see a link to that, because it smells of garbage to me. As far as you claim of kicking buttin in audio, that is also incorrect. I'll thank you to provide some numbers/averages of actual reviews. And, since you want to bring up crippled bandwidth, HD DVD makes the most out of what it has available. If you pump Blu-ray up to maximum bandwidth, then the capacity advantage for Blu-ray becomes moot as you cannot fit a longer movie on Blu-ray if you max bitrate. If you pump bandwidth, you go through capacity faster -- but I'm sure you knew that. Now, let's consider that Blu-ray has all these PCM tracks sitting there and taking up bandwidth ... plus all the dub tracks that take up bandwidth as well. You're just throwing more stuff into the pipe that people simply won't use. For example, HD DVD uses it's bandwidth for High Bitrate Audio, Video, and PiP/IME. You can actually use all those things at the same time. Blu-ray, OTOH, stuffs a bunch of audio tracks in there -- which you obviously can't listen to simultaneously, yet they are using up your bandwidth pipe. Talk about crippled.


your smiley at the end here is appropriate, you are confused....whats 1.1 or 2.0 have to do with TrueHD or any audio codec for that matter? They have been ready to go since day one.


I'm sorry, did I say spec or profile? It seems you are the one who is confused. Blu-ray was 'ready' since day one? How so? They mandate DD at 640kbps. HD DVD, OTOH, has TrueHD support mandatory in every player, along with DD+ at 1.5 mbps. Blu-ray has a more defined spec how?


According to you guys the ps3 don't count...or does it? will you guys make up your minds, Either way it's kicking your butt, nuff said.:)


Deflection ... it's not kicking butt and you know it. Even Sony has said they are dissapponted with the results. If Sony it telling us they are dissappointed, don't you think it's rather silly of you to be posting about how well it is doing?


You think 360 and Wii will still be active sku's 8 years from now?
Yup, didn't think so..


Not sure I care really ... based on a (5) year rotation, we should be looking at Xbox 1440 by the time 8 years rolls around.


Sony has 10 year cycles for their consoles...the ps3 is still in it's infancy and the 360 is bout 2 years from done and the Wii is already over the hill.


That's because Sony is going to need 10 years to be able to make any money on the PS3 at the rate they are bleeding money even with the current price strategy. The PS3 sold 55% of it's total units in the first MONTH of release ... considering it's been about 10 months now, don't you think that's pretty sad? In 2-3 years, we'll see the Xbox 720 and it will likely be a little more expensive than the PS3 (at that time) -- though it will be Next Next Gen ... Either way, that is all speculation. The fact remains that even according to Sony, the PS3 has failed to meet expectations and has been a disappointment. For you to suggest it is kicking butt seems quite silly.


Because your name is Michael right? :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:


But since you asked, yes...I think by February or so your dream will come true. Meanwhile I'll be enjoying Spiderman 1,2,3, POTC 3, FF2, Die Hard Trilogoy, IRobot, Cast Away, and so on, and so on.

So by February ... of what year? 2008 I assume? By then you feel we'll see Profile 2.0 players for < $300? Wow!


Have fun with the three hits on HDDVD, and keep on importing HDDVD's to prove your lame point, Lets see....stumbe through foreign menu's and overpay for them with insane shipping charges etc...or just buy a damn BD player....yeah the hassle of importing is worth it :rolleyes: Keep up with that buddy!

Let's take a look at your 'hits' for Blu-ray ... how many of those are Day and Date? SM3, POTC3, FF2, and Die Hard. That makes four total releases. Four. You noted (3) hits for HD DVD, so I guess that's pretty close to evenm no? The beauty of HD DVD is that we *can* import some of these exclusive Blu-ray titles and still watch them in all their High definition Glory. This point of yours just sounds like sour grapes to me.

What hassle is there with importing? You go to a website, you click a few times, it shows up at your door. Basically, it's the same procedure for buying non-imports unless you are one of the few people walking into Best Buy paying $40 for a Fox title?

What do you mean Overpay for Shipping and Titles? Exploited Cinema is in Ohio man! You might want to get some of your facts straight. But, let's go ahead and assume that an import is $5 more than a non-import. Considering that the most inexpensive Blu-ray player is $200 more than an HD DVD player, and the PS3 is about $350 more ... it would take 40-70 movies before I would be break even! Why would I want to spend $200 to save $5? That makes absolutely no logical sense.

At least you can post your comments without being banned.

You really think the PS3 has some kind of special longevity? I'm really sick of the "just wait" remarks.

First off, name a Playstation that hasn't lasted 10 yrs? You can't. Second,
you don't have to wait any longer, the wait is over my friend...look at the holiday line up...from here on out it's business as usual for the playstation brand. Lets not forget, 360 had like 1 good game it's entire first year...they didn't start getting good titles until Nov 06, 1 full year after launch. Give the developers a chance.


The consumer won't just wait for the viable titles to get here when the 360 offers the same game, which looks graphically about the same (sometimes even better) at a lower price.
games on both systems are the same price. Don't know where you are shopping. Sure there is a price gap between systems, unless you try and evenly equip them...then you find that in order to make a 360 feature for feature like a ps3, you end up spending more. This is such an easy thing for PC consumers to grasp, how cme game console consumers don't get it?
Well alot do...only those trying to dismiss superiority of the ps3 have the problem.


I'm not sure why you Sony fanboys can't accept this. Apparently, you think the world is of the same mindset as you and that Sony sh*ts gold. The only area in which the PS3 is currently ahead is in hardware reliability.



The arguments for the necessity of lossless audio are also getting old. All such claims are worthless until one can point to some verifiable double blind testing to make such claims valid.

Do you even read the reviews? Do you even read the user opinions on here? If Lossless audio wasn't neccessary...then trust me, HDDVD wouldn't bother with it...even they try and fit it in when their crippled spec permits.

At least you can post your comments without being banned.

Unfortunately I can't do it without an ankle-biter such as yourself hanging on my everypost, Trolling and bringing absolutely nothing useful to this thread.
If you wan't to talk about something other than BD players/Profile 1.0 etc than start another thread...or cry me a river on a private message, otherwise, as I said in my PM to you earlier (that you obviously ignored)...STAY ON TOPIC.

Thanks!

I keep thinking about all this HDi vs BD-J and I keep shaking my head wondering what people are thinking. Even this PiP or internet ringtones thing is mind boggling. Ok, maybe seamless branching if there is minimal PQ effect on the main feature...

Maybe most people keep buying the players because they don't care about these things? I mean look at the HD-A2 and the 360 addon and the PS3, these things don't even have any 5.1 analog audio out, meaning most people can't even do the lossless audio.

Maybe, just maybe, people are buying these things without even 5.1 speakers? What if more than half of the HDM player buyers don't even have 5.1 speakers? Or don't care about BD-J or HDi? Or OOXML? What then?

This whole thing really could be as interesting as the topic of PiP on TVs, people who want PiP on TVs will buy the PiP TVs. People who don't really care won't even ask for it.

First off, name a Playstation that hasn't lasted 10 yrs? You can't. Second,
you don't have to wait any longer, the wait is over my friend...look at the holiday line up...from here on out it's business as usual for the playstation brand. Lets not forget, 360 had like 1 good game it's entire first year...they didn't start getting good titles until Nov 06, 1 full year after launch. Give the developers a chance.
What's that? Ratchet and Clank? Home beta? That's not going to give the PS3 the push you think it will. Most everything else is delayed until 2008. Yup, Q4 2007 for the PS3 is gonna' be a bust.


games on both systems are the same price. Don't know where you are shopping. Sure there is a price gap between systems, unless you try and evenly equip them...then you find that in order to make a 360 feature for feature like a ps3, you end up spending more. This is such an easy thing for PC consumers to grasp, how cme game console consumers don't get it?
Well alot do...only those trying to dismiss superiority of the ps3 have the problem.

That's exactly what I mean, startup cost. Don't forget about hidden costs of just connecting your PS3 to your new high def TV (HDMI cable not included). Also, none of these presumed additional features on the PS3 are required for gaming (Wifi, Blu-Ray this generation, cripped Linux installation capability) and the gamers have come to that realization in the states with PS3 sales sinking. And I suppose you're also inferring that XBL is inferior to Sony's online gaming offering? Only in the price...

Re: lossless
Do you even read the reviews? Do you even read the user opinions on here? If Lossless audio wasn't neccessary...then trust me, HDDVD wouldn't bother with it...even they try and fit it in when their crippled spec permits.
It's only necessary because of audiophiles who have dreamt up this shocking difference between 1.5Mbps (aka 320 kbps per channel) and lossless.

Hey, I have one BD player and I'm happy as hell, that I can watch my 42 Blu Ray movies on it. I couldn't care less about some crappy downloaded material, or some Director/Producer/Actor, giving me their opinion in a small box in the corner in glorious 480i. Just let me see the movie that I bought the disk for. 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, whatever the spec, I can't see it making a big difference in my life, or 98% of most Blu Ray supporters lives. It is just a dead horse that the HD DVD people want to revive. If you like that kind of stuff, go support HD DVD and watch it there. I'm sure both formats have more growing to do, just like a number of people need to do some growing up around here.

I really don't get why the BR standalones don't have Ethernet ports - it makes no sense. If nothing else, it makes it easier for the manufacturers to push firmware updates, and costs next to nothing. (I don't know which ones do and don't have ports - anyone have a quick list of those that do?)

I think all the Sammys after 1st gen have them; and I think the Pio's have them. Don't think any Sony's do; at leat not the one's out now. Not sure on Panny.

This is great news for Blu-Ray fans. Your 1.0 profile collection and players are safe from the threat of modern innovation.

I think people coming to this forum to find out about HDM should be as fully informed as we can make them. HD DVD has satisfied their owners with PQ and AQ, and there's no reason to believe they are less critical than BD owners. However..
True, but this thread was not meant to do that at all, no matter how the OP tries to say it.
You really think the PS3 has some kind of special longevity? I'm really sick of the "just wait" remarks. The consumer won't just wait for the viable titles to get here when the 360 offers the same game, which looks graphically about the same (sometimes even better) at a lower price. I'm not sure why you Sony fanboys can't accept this. Apparently, you think the world is of the same mindset as you and that Sony sh*ts gold. The only area in which the PS3 is currently ahead is in hardware reliability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems

Is a new console Einstein give it time. At least i know mine will turn on 99% of the time. What's the 360 rate 66% was it! Here's some more numbers 1 out of 3 360 have failed.
This is great news for Blu-Ray fans. Your 1.0 profile collection and players are safe from the threat of modern innovation.
That's funny more like HDDVD is. I mean really HDDVD is already being max out on bandwidth and storage! What will they do once more HD features get implemented i.e. Deep color, xxyycs(or whatever is called), higher resolution video! Oh what will they do then, were back into square one with DVD, lets just put 5 in the box and well split the movie into two disc, the rest for PIP and Internet movie games(which i can do with my computer).

So tell me HDDVD followers what will happen then. If HDDVD is at this point and time max out! Yes TL51 might solidify into reality but no ones know. Even then Blu ray disc can also do multiple layers so dont pull that card out.


Beware future owners of HD media, HDDVD is already at it's limits think about that.

Not that strong of a point, really ... *shrug*



Sorry, but this argument is still debunked. The PQ for King Kong was Reference, period. You have no idea if they would have been able to maintain reference quality or not by adding TrueHD. Remember, they would have *gained* the space used by DD+ to add TrueHD, so it's not like they would have needed to fit TrueHD only in what was left available. Since TrueHD decoding is mandatory in all HD DVD players (unlike in Blu-ray, where it is an option), Studios don't have to load up a bunch of different tracks and codecs to cater to least common denominator. So much for Blu-ray's capacity advantage when you have to throw a bunch of different things on the disc to make sure people can hear audio. :rolleyes:



Huh? If you can't tell the difference, why waste bits by providing both? It's funny how BDA Supporters say that no one wants PiP so it's a silly argument and it doesn't matter if HD DVD can do it ... yet they bring up the lossless talking point as if: (1) the majority of people cared and (2) more than a small minority could hear the difference anyways. Do you have any proof to back up your claims that HD DVD has gotten an average of 3 stars and Blu-ray and average of 4.5 YTD? I'd like to see a link to that, because it smells of garbage to me. As far as you claim of kicking buttin in audio, that is also incorrect. I'll thank you to provide some numbers/averages of actual reviews. And, since you want to bring up crippled bandwidth, HD DVD makes the most out of what it has available. If you pump Blu-ray up to maximum bandwidth, then the capacity advantage for Blu-ray becomes moot as you cannot fit a longer movie on Blu-ray if you max bitrate. If you pump bandwidth, you go through capacity faster -- but I'm sure you knew that. Now, let's consider that Blu-ray has all these PCM tracks sitting there and taking up bandwidth ... plus all the dub tracks that take up bandwidth as well. You're just throwing more stuff into the pipe that people simply won't use. For example, HD DVD uses it's bandwidth for High Bitrate Audio, Video, and PiP/IME. You can actually use all those things at the same time. Blu-ray, OTOH, stuffs a bunch of audio tracks in there -- which you obviously can't listen to simultaneously, yet they are using up your bandwidth pipe. Talk about crippled.



I'm sorry, did I say spec or profile? It seems you are the one who is confused. Blu-ray was 'ready' since day one? How so? They mandate DD at 640kbps. HD DVD, OTOH, has TrueHD support mandatory in every player, along with DD+ at 1.5 mbps. Blu-ray has a more defined spec how?



Deflection ... it's not kicking butt and you know it. Even Sony has said they are dissapponted with the results. If Sony it telling us they are dissappointed, don't you think it's rather silly of you to be posting about how well it is doing?



Not sure I care really ... based on a (5) year rotation, we should be looking at Xbox 1440 by the time 8 years rolls around.



That's because Sony is going to need 10 years to be able to make any money on the PS3 at the rate they are bleeding money even with the current price strategy. The PS3 sold 55% of it's total units in the first MONTH of release ... considering it's been about 10 months now, don't you think that's pretty sad? In 2-3 years, we'll see the Xbox 720 and it will likely be a little more expensive than the PS3 (at that time) -- though it will be Next Next Gen ... Either way, that is all speculation. The fact remains that even according to Sony, the PS3 has failed to meet expectations and has been a disappointment. For you to suggest it is kicking butt seems quite silly.



:rolleyes:



So by February ... of what year? 2008 I assume? By then you feel we'll see Profile 2.0 players for < $300? Wow!



Let's take a look at your 'hits' for Blu-ray ... how many of those are Day and Date? SM3, POTC3, FF2, and Die Hard. That makes four total releases. Four. You noted (3) hits for HD DVD, so I guess that's pretty close to evenm no? The beauty of HD DVD is that we *can* import some of these exclusive Blu-ray titles and still watch them in all their High definition Glory. This point of yours just sounds like sour grapes to me.

What hassle is there with importing? You go to a website, you click a few times, it shows up at your door. Basically, it's the same procedure for buying non-imports unless you are one of the few people walking into Best Buy paying $40 for a Fox title?

What do you mean Overpay for Shipping and Titles? Exploited Cinema is in Ohio man! You might want to get some of your facts straight. But, let's go ahead and assume that an import is $5 more than a non-import. Considering that the most inexpensive Blu-ray player is $200 more than an HD DVD player, and the PS3 is about $350 more ... it would take 40-70 movies before I would be break even! Why would I want to spend $200 to save $5? That makes absolutely no logical sense.

It's useless to argue with these willfully close-minded people.

They're like the anti-evolutionists who marvel at God's genius in putting shellfish remains halfway up the walls of the Grand Canyon.

You can't argue with the True Believers. Sony and BD are their religion. Faith is stronger than Reason.

True, but this thread was not meant to do that at all, no matter how the OP tries to say it.

This thread is about the fact that there are NO BD players or movies with advanced features like DS PIP, DS Audio and Web Enable. Nor do we know when a player will arrive. There have been announced titles but they are in 2008 - Q2 and Q3.

BD is still trying to catch up to HD DVD when it comes to features.


That's funny more like HDDVD is. I mean really HDDVD is already being max out on bandwidth and storage! What will they do once more HD features get implemented i.e. Deep color, xxyycs(or whatever is called), higher resolution video! Oh what will they do then, were back into square one with DVD, lets just put 5 in the box and well split the movie into two disc, the rest for PIP and Internet movie games(which i can do with my computer).

There are NO provisions in either format for xvYCC (30 million colors versus 16 million) or Deep Color. Neither format can do either.

What higher resolution? HD's highest resolution is 1920x1080. Both formats do this with ease.

So tell me HDDVD followers what will happen then. If HDDVD is at this point and time max out! Yes TL51 might solidify into reality but no ones know. Even then Blu ray disc can also do multiple layers so dont pull that card out.

No - let's pull this card out and another while we are at it. The TL51 is in the approval process - one more is needed - Final Production Approval. So where is this mythical multilayer (past 2) BD you are referring to? Please link to educate us.

The TL Twin is all set - ready to go. And go it will. This is something that BD cannot compete with because they have nothing like it. They tried . . .2X . . and failed 2X.


Beware future owners of HD media, HDDVD is already at it's limits think about that.

So is BD . . .so what?

Papi4baby, neither of the formats will offer greater resolution, genius...1080p is as good as it gets. If you wanted greater resolution, the spinning and data read rates would also have to increase.

66% failure rate for 360s? Sounds like FUD to me. And please, don't preach to me about the technical problems. They've been belabored ad nauseum by your ilk. I've owned 2 with zero problems

It's useless to argue with these willfully close-minded people.

They're like the anti-evolutionists who marvel at God's genius in putting shellfish remains halfway up the walls of the Grand Canyon.

You can't argue with the True Believers. Sony and BD are their religion. Faith is stronger than Reason.
Is this really necessary? One can just as fervently and blindly follow a theory as they can a deity (or a mega corp).

I'll try to get this thread back on topic...

100% set top BD players'll still be profile 1.0 after 31st Oct BD1.1 deadline . They probably will still be all 1.0 in January. I will probably be a year before we see BD Live. That is the oethat really matters.

Almost all stand-alones sold up until then will NEVER be able to do BD Live.

Everyone agree?

Unfortunately I can't do it without an ankle-biter such as yourself hanging on my everypost, Trolling and bringing absolutely nothing useful to this thread.
If you wan't to talk about something other than BD players/Profile 1.0 etc than start another thread...or cry me a river on a private message, otherwise, as I said in my PM to you earlier (that you obviously ignored)...STAY ON TOPIC.

Thanks!

Humm ... Topic of this thread: 100% set top BD players'll still be profile 1.0 after 31st Oct BD1.1 deadline.

Your last posts have absolutely nothing to do with that topic.

First off, name a Playstation that hasn't lasted 10 yrs? You can't. Second,
you don't have to wait any longer, the wait is over my friend...look at the holiday line up...from here on out it's business as usual for the playstation brand. Lets not forget, 360 had like 1 good game it's entire first year...they didn't start getting good titles until Nov 06, 1 full year after launch. Give the developers a chance.


Oblivion wasn't a good game? Sorry, but there were several good games released before November 06. But, I have no issues giving the developers a chance ... it's just that ... multiplatform titles mostly look better on 360.


games on both systems are the same price. Don't know where you are shopping. Sure there is a price gap between systems, unless you try and evenly equip them...then you find that in order to make a 360 feature for feature like a ps3, you end up spending more. This is such an easy thing for PC consumers to grasp, how cme game console consumers don't get it?
Well alot do...only those trying to dismiss superiority of the ps3 have the problem.


If the PS3 platform was superior, why do most multiplatform games look that much better (or the same) on 360? Why should someone go out and spend $200-250 more to buy a PS3 when they can save that money and put it towards games? Like you said, the games on both systems are roughly the same price ... so why spend the extra $250 on the hardware if you don't need to?


Do you even read the reviews? Do you even read the user opinions on here? If Lossless audio wasn't neccessary...then trust me, HDDVD wouldn't bother with it...even they try and fit it in when their crippled spec permits.

Actually, I do ... do you? Films like Hot Fuzz and King Kong are both Reference titles for PQ/AQ. In fact, I believe they said Hot Fuzz had one of the best (if not the best) audio tracks -- and it's DD+. Let's not forget that some reviewers are biased, so I'm sure you can find some links that say otherwise. That said, I'll take FilmMixer's opinion over that of any reviewer since he has access to the master. According to him, DD+ is essentially transparent. He finds it hard to even detect differences between DD+ and Lossless one out of ten times. That's a 10% hit rate for someone who's been doing this for a living for over a decade. But, fine, you go ahead and take a blogger's word for it that may or may not be being paid by Sony/BDA.

Finally, you keep suggesting that the HD DVD spec is crippled, yet by most accounts, it's the *only* complete Spec. So what does that make the BD Spec with 3 profiles for video, no mandatory baseline for persistent storage, and a crap shoot when it comes to HD Audio Codecs (a point you seem to focus on)? Throw in all the inconsistencies with BD-Java, how some players can't read Burned Blu-ray Media, and how some can't even read CD's and you certainly have something great there. :rolleyes:

You sig says you have (2) Blu-ray players ... is that because you needed both to be able to do all the things you wanted to do? Plus you'll need a third to do PiP and Networking stuff unless Sony decides to do something with the PS3. Oh, and before you say 'No one cares', I'd ask you to actually read the recent press releases by Fox and Disney. Apparently, PiP and Extra Features are main points of their releases -- so it's obviously important to someone. *shrug*

I'll try to get this thread back on topic...

100% set top BD players'll still be profile 1.0 after 31st Oct BD1.1 deadline . They probably will still be all 1.0 in January. I will probably be a year before we see BD Live. That is the oethat really matters.

Almost all stand-alones sold up until then will NEVER be able to do BD Live.

Everyone agree?

I hope so.

True, but this thread was not meant to do that at all, no matter how the OP tries to say it.

Is a new console Einstein give it time. At least i know mine will turn on 99% of the time. What's the 360 rate 66% was it! Here's some more numbers 1 out of 3 360 have failed.

Wikipedia is a credible source for this stuff? Okay, let me go update the PS3 article to say 1 in 2 PS3's fail. It's not like Sony would update information on a Blog to reflect something positive about themselves and negative for their competition. btw, David Manning tells me that alliwantforxmasisapsp. :rolleyes:


That's funny more like HDDVD is. I mean really HDDVD is already being max out on bandwidth and storage! What will they do once more HD features get implemented i.e. Deep color, xxyycs(or whatever is called), higher resolution video! Oh what will they do then, were back into square one with DVD, lets just put 5 in the box and well split the movie into two disc, the rest for PIP and Internet movie games(which i can do with my computer).


This is a silly argument. Insider's have confirmed that neither HD DVD nor Blu-ray have support in the spec to handle Deep Color Support. HDMI 1.3a can handle it, but there is absolutely no source material with it, and the format can't handle it, so it's silly. The fact that you're using this as a talking point just shows how few talking points the BDA has left.


So tell me HDDVD followers what will happen then. If HDDVD is at this point and time max out! Yes TL51 might solidify into reality but no ones know. Even then Blu ray disc can also do multiple layers so dont pull that card out.


Just debunked above. Do you expect movies to actually get longer? I don't think so. Do you expect codecs to get more efficient? Surely, I do. Today we know that everything can be done on HD DVD, BD50 is pretty much overkill for space on BD-Rom since PQ/AQ is roughly the same between platforms. Since codecs are likely to get better and better and movie length will likely stay roughly the same, I suspect that you'll just end up with a lot more wasted space on BD50 or you'll have them switch back to BD25 which has a higher yield and a cheaper cost.


Beware future owners of HD media, HDDVD is already at it's limits think about that.

Most Blu-ray releases are on BD25 ... what does that tell you? That's 5GB LESS than what is available on HD DVD ... that's a lower limit than Blu-ray. Furthermore, several Blu-ray releases have already come out on 2-disc editions ... I guess Blu-ray is at the limit already too! Perhaps we should all just wait for HVD. :rolleyes:

I am also waiting for spec 1.1 and 2.0 and the price needs to drop to at least $300.00 dollars. Most of my HT is Panny (Besides my A2) so most likely I will get a Panny BD (I have not bought a Sony Product in 10 years).

Rob

I hope so.

You do realize if that happens (standalones not doing 2.0), Disney and Warner are gone and BD likely dies unless it can be supported as a SuperBit format for enthusiasts. Not sure that's in Sony's plans.

Most Blu-ray releases are on BD25 ... what does that tell you? That's 5GB LESS than what is available on HD DVD ... that's a lower limit than Blu-ray. Furthermore, several Blu-ray releases have already come out on 2-disc editions ... I guess Blu-ray is at the limit already too! Perhaps we should all just wait for HVD. :rolleyes:

Most... so surely you would have to mean 90% or 95% by using the word most. Not perhaps... around 60%. So 60% of blu-ray releases are on disks that have 30Gb or less space as opposed to 100% of HD-DVD releases. At least blu-ray has the option of a larger disk and greater bandwidth if needed.

Having 2 disk editions by itself doesn't indicate a format limits being reached, when features that have to go on the movie disk because they are inline with the movie cannot fit because of capacity or bandwidth issues, that does.

Although I don't know where papi4baby was going with the deep colour argument since, as was pointed out, neither format has that in their specs.

The reason we are concerned is because whichever format prevails everyone will be using it. In this case Profile and a few other issues quite noticably are a concern for all consumers if Blu-Ray becomes a primary hi-def format.

When I express concerns I'm doing it becuase I'll be forced to double dip or triple dip on players as well as regular folks out there that don't give a rats ass about 100% purity of the sound, but indeed care about whether or not they'll be paying $500 for a player they'll have to repurchase only a few months from now nad then again a year after that. I don't give a rats ass whether or not it affects you personally.

It's a simple fact HD DVD = completeness whatever player you buy it plays ALL features of the disk, no fuss no muss.. it is true hi-definition standard and it is cheap. Blu-Ray = profile issues, half-ass functionality and ridiculous pricing.

Yes, we have asked numerous questions at insider thread, but answers were never given, the questions were deleted or simply ignored.

And then you have this Blu-idiot coming out in public and saying that Blu-Ray profiles are really a non-issue, just a month or so after Sony issued a statement that said "Hey consumers, don't be dumb, it's better to pay more, because you know it's Blu-Ray", regardless that half of functionality that HD DVD offers simply doesn't work.

I don't think you need to worry too much. If BD prevails (meaning it wins or have roughly 50% of the titles), it will take a while, and by then, the profile mess is cleaned up. I do feel sorry for the early adopters who bought in and may miss those features (not all of them will), but there is usually a price for buying into something new unfortunately.

Hey, I have one BD player and I'm happy as hell, that I can watch my 42 Blu Ray movies on it. I couldn't care less about some crappy downloaded material, or some Director/Producer/Actor, giving me their opinion in a small box in the corner in glorious 480i. Just let me see the movie that I bought the disk for. 1.0, 1.1, 2.0, whatever the spec, I can't see it making a big difference in my life, or 98% of most Blu Ray supporters lives. It is just a dead horse that the HD DVD people want to revive. If you like that kind of stuff, go support HD DVD and watch it there. I'm sure both formats have more growing to do, just like a number of people need to do some growing up around here.

It is great (really) that you are "happy as hell." Why wouldn't you be if your purchases give you the entertainment you seek?

The problem is that studios believe, based on their experience with DVD features, that these features add value to the discs and spur sales. The studios have plans the leverage these features to move more people to spend their cash on HD media. That's why Disney's big announcements for next year focus on BD-Live features.

Your happiness and preferences are fine for you, but they will not be enough for studios to stick with BD long term.

Have fun with the three hits on HDDVD, and keep on importing HDDVD's to prove your lame point, Lets see....stumbe through foreign menu's and overpay for them with insane shipping charges etc...or just buy a damn BD player....yeah the hassle of importing is worth it :rolleyes: Keep up with that buddy!


Funny!! Go to bluray.com and look for the ZILLION posts by angry BD folk asking if Transformers and other movies can be imported.

But even better folks, now to expose BTBuck for what he is. Here is his direct quote from BlueRay.com regarding a title from the UK. Transformers 1986.

"i'll buy this as soon as I can verify it will play in my US devices (s300/ps3)"
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=247255#post247255

I guess when HDDVD people import its dumb, but when BD folk import its smart?:rolleyes:

Wikipedia is a credible source for this stuff? Okay, let me go update the PS3 article to say 1 in 2 PS3's fail. It's not like Sony would update information on a Blog to reflect something positive about themselves and negative for their competition. btw, David Manning tells me that alliwantforxmasisapsp. :rolleyes:



Oh, are we playing discredit wikipedia now?

The 33% figure came originally from Dailytech (http://www.dailytech.com/Retailers+Estimate+Xbox+360+Failure+Rate+High+as+33+Percent/article7892.htm).

Oh, are we playing discredit wikipedia now?

The 33% figure came originally from Dailytech (http://www.dailytech.com/Retailers+Estimate+Xbox+360+Failure+Rate+High+as+33+Percent/article7892.htm).

And this means what? There are about 200,000 AO's in the wild. So 5.8 million 360's are not being used for HD playback.

Funny!! Go to bluray.com and look for the ZILLION posts by angry BD folk asking if Transformers and other movies can be imported.

But even better folks, now to expose BTBuck for what he is. Here is his direct quote from BlueRay.com regarding a title from the UK. Transformers 1986.

"i'll buy this as soon as I can verify it will play in my US devices (s300/ps3)"
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=247255#post247255

I guess when HDDVD people import its dumb, but when BD folk import its smart?:rolleyes:

I wasn't aware that was an HD DVD title over here, if anyone wants that title over here they'll have to import it. HD guys will just have to buy a BR player first if they want to watch it.:D

I wasn't aware that was an HD DVD title over here, if anyone wants that title over here they'll have to import it. HD guys will just have to buy a BR player first if they want to watch it.:D

Your clearly not reading what I am saying. He is ragging on importing in general, yet talks about importing?

I never said Transformers 86 was HDDVD.

So let me understand the logic.

If its an HDDVD exclusive title, and can be imported, thats ok.

If its a BD title not available in the states, and can be be imported, thats ok.

If it's a BD exclusive title that can be imported, HDDVD fans are wasting money, and thats stupid.

Your logic astounds me.

After ALL your posts.. I still refuse to think that you are actually serious.

Do you even own a standalone BD player?

He (i.e. thebland) likely doesn't. When would he have time to watch movies when he posts that heavily?... :rolleyes:

Your clearly not reading what I am saying. He is ragging on importing in general, yet talks about importing?

I never said Transformers 86 was HDDVD.

So let me understand the logic.

If its an HDDVD exclusive title, and can be imported, thats ok.

If its a BD title not available in the states, and can be be imported, thats ok.

If it's a BD exclusive title that can be imported, HDDVD fans are wasting money, and thats stupid.

Your logic astounds me.

The only thing I'm saying is if it's one or two titles, buy them. But if your importing one or two a month, swallow your pride and buy a player. You don't even have to let everyone here know you did it. You can keep it on the down low.:D

I'm not watching anything now....My theater is down as I am renovating the video and audio. I have HDDVD, BD, DVHS. Should be back to movies in 2-3 weeks.

The only thing I'm saying is if it's one or two titles, buy them. But if your importing one or two a month, swallow your pride and buy a player. You don't even have to let everyone here know you did it. You can keep it on the down low.:D

Importing is expensive, I own a PS3 as well, so there is no reason for me to import of course.

Importing would be more important for those who refuse to buy the other format. I guess they dont want to feel icky about buying the other format, dunno.

I'm not watching anything now....My theater is down as I am renovating the video and audio. I have HDDVD, BD, DVHS. Should be back to movies in 2-3 weeks.

No wonder...So, if you are not using your HD DVD and BD players (which clearly you do not have) and not even the teenager-oriented PS3, where do you get your information against the HD DVD format? It is so sad..., at least some make money from Sony and the BDA for advertising for them and bashing the other format. Had you been a tad smart, you could have financed your (mum and dad's) HT with Sony money. I bet you are not. :(

The only thing I'm saying is if it's one or two titles, buy them. But if your importing one or two a month, swallow your pride and buy a player. You don't even have to let everyone here know you did it. You can keep it on the down low.:D

Thank you, someone see's things rationally. Some will import til the day they die just to stick to some loyalty about being diehard this, or diehard that. For as much a Blu-ray Fanboy you guys think I may be, Remember I own both formats, and two players for each...I do own over 60 HDDVD's so it's not like I don't have personal experience with this stuff from both sides to form my opinion with. As for Transformers 1986, if it were available here in the U.S. from either HDDVD or Blu-ray I would buy it here rather than Import. YOu can see my collection on Blu-ray.com (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=2629), you can see that I haven't imported anything yet (haven't had to) though I have had my Eye on Running scared (HDDVD), another title not available on either format here.

Thanks!

Michael9009 you're the first to accuse me of not owning HD players (or even a theater)...I think my theater might make you blush and take your words back.... click on my link young man for a surprise...

Oblivion wasn't a good game? Sorry, but there were several good games released before November 06. But, I have no issues giving the developers a chance ... it's just that ... multiplatform titles mostly look better on 360.
It was, so was COD2 but really was there anything else? Sure ps3 has resistance FOM & Motorstorm...but is there really anything else? I am an equal opportunity Disser, don't worry....but I am also an Equal opportunity optimist.



If the PS3 platform was superior, why do most multiplatform games look that much better (or the same) on 360? Why should someone go out and spend $200-250 more to buy a PS3 when they can save that money and put it towards games? Like you said, the games on both systems are roughly the same price ... so why spend the extra $250 on the hardware if you don't need to?
For the same reason Like titles on BD/HDDVD look the same...cut & paste jobs by the producers...come on, you know better. Nobody should do anything they aren't comfortable with. I am of the opinion that some games will be better on some systems, just like SNES vs. Genesis. I owned both then, I own Both now. From a Hardware standpoint though, to say the ps3 is inferior is just pure ignorance of the subject. It's personal opinion, not FACT.


Actually, I do ... do you? Films like Hot Fuzz and King Kong are both Reference titles for PQ/AQ. In fact, I believe they said Hot Fuzz had one of the best (if not the best) audio tracks -- and it's DD+. Let's not forget that some reviewers are biased, so I'm sure you can find some links that say otherwise. That said, I'll take FilmMixer's opinion over that of any reviewer since he has access to the master. According to him, DD+ is essentially transparent. He finds it hard to even detect differences between DD+ and Lossless one out of ten times. That's a 10% hit rate for someone who's been doing this for a living for over a decade. But, fine, you go ahead and take a blogger's word for it that may or may not be being paid by Sony/BDA.

If you're cool with the look & sound of good enough....by all means, do what you do pimpin.

Finally, you keep suggesting that the HD DVD spec is crippled, yet by most accounts, it's the *only* complete Spec. So what does that make the BD Spec with 3 profiles for video, no mandatory baseline for persistent storage, and a crap shoot when it comes to HD Audio Codecs (a point you seem to focus on)? Throw in all the inconsistencies with BD-Java, how some players can't read Burned Blu-ray Media, and how some can't even read CD's and you certainly have something great there. :rolleyes:
Those highlighted things are obviously all very important things to YOU, not to me. Second, whats the point of Mandating a Lossless audio codec when hardly any movies (less than 3%) use it? I'll stick with Sony's optional, their studios make lossless audio more the rule than the exception, thanks! CD players...lol I have about 14 options in my home for that (all of which include my BD players too) What is it like one BD player that can't play a CD...:rolleyes: And if you want to compare recordable media I say...what HDDVD Recordable media? How can you be the successor to DVD when you have no recordable devices/media?


You sig says you have (2) Blu-ray players ... is that because you needed both to be able to do all the things you wanted to do?
Funny you say this...I bought the 360 add on to watch the movies my HD-A1 would stutter through So yeah, the things I wanted to do....Like just watch the damn movie without it having an epileptic seizure 1/3 of the way through:rolleyes: BTW, All My BD's play flawlessly on both my players ;).


Plus you'll need a third to do PiP and Networking stuff unless Sony decides to do something with the PS3. Oh, and before you say 'No one cares', I'd ask you to actually read the recent press releases by Fox and Disney. Apparently, PiP and Extra Features are main points of their releases -- so it's obviously important to someone. *shrug*
If the consumer cared about these features, the HDDVD version of 300 wouldn't be getting owned in sales figures. If Disney wants to do all that, GREAT! maybe it will be the thing that gets some of you guys who think it's so important to get on board with Blu, so we can wrap this war up. For me, so long as these movies I buy will play back in the machines I have now, I'm good!:) But unfortunately My HDDVD players have problems just doing the base thing they are supposed to do...play a damn movie :(

Michael9009 you're the first to accuse me of not owning HD players (or even a theater)...I think my theater might make you blush and take your words back.... click on my link young man for a surprise...

Anyne who has D-VHS player gets my vote. I know there are a lot of HD DVD fans out here that don't like you, but I think secretly you are a guy who like to watch HD movies in any of the HD formats (yeah, you prefer BR). I would never question your commentment to that.

Michael9009 you're the first to accuse me of not owning HD players (or even a theater)...I think my theater might make you blush and take your words back.... click on my link young man for a surprise...

Friggin sick!

Lexicon, Crown K2's ? Is that a motorized masking system.

I'm definitely envious!

I keep thinking about all this HDi vs BD-J and I keep shaking my head wondering what people are thinking. Even this PiP or internet ringtones thing is mind boggling. Ok, maybe seamless branching if there is minimal PQ effect on the main feature...

Maybe most people keep buying the players because they don't care about these things? I mean look at the HD-A2 and the 360 addon and the PS3, these things don't even have any 5.1 analog audio out, meaning most people can't even do the lossless audio.

Maybe, just maybe, people are buying these things without even 5.1 speakers? What if more than half of the HDM player buyers don't even have 5.1 speakers? Or don't care about BD-J or HDi? Or OOXML? What then?

This whole thing really could be as interesting as the topic of PiP on TVs, people who want PiP on TVs will buy the PiP TVs. People who don't really care won't even ask for it.

Good point, and I work in CE sales and not once....not one single time has any one of my customers asked anything about BD-J, Pip or HDi.

They all pretty much ask:

"How much bettter is the PQ than a DVD"

"Will it make my DVD's look better"

"whats better 1080i or 1080p?" -Never am I asked anything about 24p

And suprisingly I get this one alot:

"Does it have optical output?" -which leads me into explaining lossless audio.

Anyne who has D-VHS player gets my vote. I know there are a lot of HD DVD fans out here that don't like you, but I think secretly you are a guy who like to watch HD movies in any of the HD formats (yeah, you prefer BR). I would never question your commentment to that.

I think it's unfortunate that people like TheBland and myself, who own both...and technically support HDDVD with our dollars (probably more than our hearts) which is the bottom line, are slain around here because we simply see something better in Blu-ray and prefer it. I post regularly here and at Blu-ray.com and for as messed up as you guys think that site is, none of them have anything negative to say about me owning both formats. Though here when I mention blu-ray in any positive light I feel like I dropped the N word at the million man march.

Wow, this thread has turned out well. :)

I think it's unfortunate that people like TheBland and myself, who own both...and technically support HDDVD with our dollars (probably more than our hearts) which is the bottom line, are slain around here because we simply see something better in Blu-ray and prefer it. I post regularly here and at Blu-ray.com and for as messed up as you guys think that site is, none of them have anything negative to say about me owning both formats. Though here when I mention blu-ray in any positive light I feel like I dropped the N word at the million man march.

Get used to it, posting here with a preference towards BR will get you that.

But man is it fun. :D

I think it's unfortunate that people like TheBland and myself, who own both...and technically support HDDVD with our dollars (probably more than our hearts) which is the bottom line, are slain around here because we simply see something better in Blu-ray and prefer it. I post regularly here and at Blu-ray.com and for as messed up as you guys think that site is, none of them have anything negative to say about me owning both formats. Though here when I mention blu-ray in any positive light I feel like I dropped the N word at the million man march.
Cry me a river. You were the author of the "hit list," were you not? You're the one keeping the list archived for anyone who wants a copy, right?

If you're unhappy with the way you've been treated, perhaps you should have considered that before attacking numerous members on this site over on that fanboy forum.

:) Ok here we go
This thread is about the fact that there are NO BD players or movies with advanced features like DS PIP, DS Audio and Web Enable. Nor do we know when a player will arrive. There have been announced titles but they are in 2008 - Q2 and Q3.

BD is still trying to catch up to HD DVD when it comes to features.

Yes HDDVD hardware is finalised and it does have that on BD, nothing that cannot be done with Blu ray players your point???? Again i know is not available, but it will. Yes? Good.


There are NO provisions in either format for xvYCC (30 million colors versus 16 million) or Deep Color. Neither format can do either.

Because is not on the spec does not mean it can't happen. And if it does get implemented on the future Blu ray is a safer bet that it might be compatible

What higher resolution? HD's highest resolution is 1920x1080. Both formats do this with ease.

Higher resolution, yes is wiki no directed to you but for the rest of you get over it, i dont have any other sources nor do i feel like spending my day looking for them
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_resolution

No - let's pull this card out and another while we are at it. The TL51 is in the approval process - one more is needed - Final Production Approval. So where is this mythical multilayer (past 2) BD you are referring to? Please link to educate us.

TDK, do i really need to post a link for it?
here's a 4 layer 100GB
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,120896-page,1/article.html?RSS=RSS
and a 200GB 6, yes 6 layers
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2011173,00.asp

The TL Twin is all set - ready to go. And go it will. This is something that BD cannot compete with because they have nothing like it. They tried . . .2X . . and failed 2X.

You win i have no idea what this is.


So is BD . . .so what?




Papi4baby, neither of the formats will offer greater resolution, genius...1080p is as good as it gets. If you wanted greater resolution, the spinning and data read rates would also have to increase.

See above post about higher resolution

66% failure rate for 360s? Sounds like FUD to me. And please, don't preach to me about the technical problems. They've been belabored ad nauseum by your ilk. I've owned 2 with zero problems

English is not my first languague i know i make spelling errors. But if you read it again i said that because of the supposed 33% or so failure rate, that would leave 66% in good working order that will turn on every time.



Wikipedia is a credible source for this stuff? Okay, let me go update the PS3 article to say 1 in 2 PS3's fail. It's not like Sony would update information on a Blog to reflect something positive about themselves and negative for their competition. btw, David Manning tells me that alliwantforxmasisapsp. :rolleyes:

Well tell me where else i can find info about general stuff and i'll go search for it there. The point is that if it goes againts your believe you will debunk it huh? Ok fine you can have it.


This is a silly argument. Insider's have confirmed that neither HD DVD nor Blu-ray have support in the spec to handle Deep Color Support. HDMI 1.3a can handle it, but there is absolutely no source material with it, and the format can't handle it, so it's silly. The fact that you're using this as a talking point just shows how few talking points the BDA has left.

See above for answer. One more thing, i speak for myself not the BDA.Don't try to change the subject.


Just debunked above. Do you expect movies to actually get longer? I don't think so. Do you expect codecs to get more efficient? Surely, I do. Today we know that everything can be done on HD DVD, BD50 is pretty much overkill for space on BD-Rom since PQ/AQ is roughly the same between platforms. Since codecs are likely to get better and better and movie length will likely stay roughly the same, I suspect that you'll just end up with a lot more wasted space on BD50 or you'll have them switch back to BD25 which has a higher yield and a cheaper cost.

No such thing as overkill when it comes to digital space my friend, the more the better. Yes size does matter no matter what the nice nurse told you. Codecs will get better, but there will always be a need for more space.


Most Blu-ray releases are on BD25 ... what does that tell you? That's 5GB LESS than what is available on HD DVD ... that's a lower limit than Blu-ray. Furthermore, several Blu-ray releases have already come out on 2-disc editions ... I guess Blu-ray is at the limit already too! Perhaps we should all just wait for HVD. :rolleyes:

Yes compare your 2 layer format to my 1 layer format, how original. Now which cost more to produce BD25 or HDDVD30(seriously)?

some posts deleted: including one who sent the report

The reason so many BD fans are happy with 1.0 (aside from they already own it) is that they may realize the world of pain BD will have dealing with multiple incompatibilities that will arise from
- the different hardware implementations of each profile from the different CEM's and even for each of their models
- the different implementations of the profile features by the studios
- the difficulty in propagating updates for non-profile 2.0 models

The HD players have had multiple updates even though they are all of the same "profile", have fewer CEM's and studios, use the simpler HDi, and all are internet capable from day 1.

I was thinking of buying BD when the price is right, but I think I need to wait until the format is stable.

several more posts deleted:

just want to bicker? please go somewhere else

Thank you

:) Ok here we go

Nice links - they are both RECORDABLE MEDIA - not ROM:


Digital recording media maker TDK claimed to have reached a landmark on Aug. 31 in the development of recordable media by announcing the prototype of a 200GB Blu-ray laser disc.

TDK Develops 100GB Blu-ray Disc
Prototype disc also can record data at twice the speed, company says.

You have no idea what Deep Color or xvYCC are yet you think that BD can accomodate them?

The TL Twin is a 3 layer HD DVD/SD DVD:

30/4.7 - 2 layers of HD, 1 layer of SD - all on the same side
15/9 - 1 layer HD, 2 layers of SD - all on the same side.

There is NO planned increase of resolution past 1920x1080 for the foreseeable future with the exception of Digital Cinema which will be 4000x2000. (called SHD - Super HD) and is TOTALLY incompatible with BD or HD DVD.

The reason so many BD fans are happy with 1.0 (aside from they already own it) is that they may realize the world of pain BD will have dealing with multiple incompatibilities that will arise from
- the different hardware implementations of each profile from the different CEM's and even for each of their models
- the different implementations of the profile features by the studios
- the difficulty in propagating updates for non-profile 2.0 models

The HD players have had multiple updates even though they are all of the same "profile", have fewer CEM's and studios, use the simpler HDi, and all are internet capable from day 1.

I was thinking of buying BD when the price is right, but I think I need to wait until the format is stable.

I assume you have polling data to back you up?

And this is a good thing?

There is NO planned increase of resolution past 1920x1080 for the foreseeable future with the exception of Digital Cinema which will be 4000x2000. (called SHD - Super HD) and is TOTALLY incompatible with BD or HD DVD.

Interesting. I'd need a much bigger TV to be able to discern the difference between 1080p and SHD--or I'd need to sit a hell of a lot closer. Talk about overkill...

I assume you have polling data to back you up?

And this is a good thing?Fixed
I suspect the reason so many BD fans are happy with 1.0 (aside from they already own it) is that they may realize the world of pain BD will have dealing with multiple incompatibilities that will arise from
- the different hardware implementations of each profile from the different CEM's and even for each of their models
- the different implementations of the profile features by the studios
- the difficulty in propagating updates for non-profile 2.0 models

The HD players have had multiple updates even though they are all of the same "profile", have fewer CEM's and studios (in this case a good thing), use the simpler HDi, and all are internet capable from day 1.

I was thinking of buying BD when the price is right, but I think I need to wait until the format is stable.

Nice links - they are both RECORDABLE MEDIA - not ROM:






You have no idea what Deep Color or xvYCC are yet you think that BD can accomodate them?


The TL Twin is a 3 layer HD DVD/SD DVD:

30/4.7 - 2 layers of HD, 1 layer of SD - all on the same side
15/9 - 1 layer HD, 2 layers of SD - all on the same side.

There is NO planned increase of resolution past 1920x1080 for the foreseeable future with the exception of Digital Cinema which will be 4000x2000. (called SHD - Super HD) and is TOTALLY incompatible with BD or HD DVD.

Fine Lee, you are smarter than me, i dont know anything.
P.S. The TL thing is nice, but i got and HD tv to watch HD material. I got a BD player to watch HD material. I personally are not interested in DVD's anymore. I haven't bought once since i got a BD player. The only one i bought about a week ago was Superman Doomsday.
The reason so many BD fans are happy with 1.0 (aside from they already own it) is that they may realize the world of pain BD will have dealing with multiple incompatibilities that will arise from
- the different hardware implementations of each profile from the different CEM's and even for each of their models
- the different implementations of the profile features by the studios
- the difficulty in propagating updates for non-profile 2.0 models

The HD players have had multiple updates even though they are all of the same "profile", have fewer CEM's and studios, use the simpler HDi, and all are internet capable from day 1.

I was thinking of buying BD when the price is right, but I think I need to wait until the format is stable.

I think the current BD structure is bought into because it works plain and simple.
-Does BD movies deliver the highest available film definition to consumers?
Yes it does.
-Does BD deliver the best possible audio to consumers?
Yes it does.

-Could it be better?
Yes it could.
-Will it be better?
Yes it will.
-If i have a profile 1 player, will disc with Java(1.1) work?
As of right now no one knows, im pretty sure Sony wont shoot themselfs in the foot and screw this up. Now im not saying that it will support the special features but it should support the main content; which is the movie and audio.

-Does HDDVD do the same?
Yes it does.
-Will i buy HDDVD?
Not at this moment, on paper(tech specs) BD is better, so im bettin on that fact as of right now. I will buy a HDDVD player if BD fails and HDDVD wins. I already invested on BD, i dont plan to have two players to watch movies, or two formats of movies that are not compatible. To me is not smart or cost effective.

Only two Denon players have been announced as 1.1 ready, of which one is $1999.99 and both have been delayed until 2008. No manufacturer, including Sony have announced any plans to upgrade existing players and studios such as Fox are "worried" about compatability issues. And this is just 1.1, 2.0 no word yet. This is exactly why I don't buy into Blu-ray.

Fixed
I suspect the reason so many BD fans are happy with 1.0 (aside from they already own it) is that they may realize the world of pain BD will have dealing with multiple incompatibilities that will arise from
- the different hardware implementations of each profile from the different CEM's and even for each of their models
- the different implementations of the profile features by the studios
- the difficulty in propagating updates for non-profile 2.0 models

The HD players have had multiple updates even though they are all of the same "profile", have fewer CEM's and studios (in this case a good thing), use the simpler HDi, and all are internet capable from day 1.

I was thinking of buying BD when the price is right, but I think I need to wait until the format is stable.

Better:)

I wouldn't say I'm "Happy" with 1.0, I fully expect advancement. Now me personally all I care about is the movies. But I know people who love extras, so I expect Blu-Ray to progress to 2.0. I agree with pretty much everyone here, to survive the format has to get to 2.0, unlike a lot of you here I don't see a problem with them doing it.

studios such as Fox are "worried" about compatability issues. And this is just 1.1, 2.0 no word yet. This is exactly why I don't buy into Blu-ray.

Where's this info available???

Where's this info available???

Give me a few to find that, unless someone beats me. I knew someone was going to ask, and was almost hesitant to say it since I knew it would be a pain to find it. I'll search, but it was posted on AVS in the last few days. Thanks.

Give me a few to find that, unless someone beats me. I knew someone was going to ask, and was almost hesitant to say it since I knew it would be a pain to find it. I'll search, but it was posted on AVS in the last few days. Thanks.

Thanks, and really this is the first time i see this, so yeah i would like to read it myself. You sure is the backwards compatability, i thought it was BD+ was the big issue for Fox. But nothing has been said about it, other than it has been finalised and approved.

Thanks, and really this is the first time i see this, so yeah i would like to read it myself. You sure is the backwards compatability, i thought it was BD+ was the big issue for Fox. But nothing has been said about it, other than it has been finalised and approved.

Maybe not sure, in the last few weeks I have been reading thousands of articles for both sides so it's easy to confuse them. It could be BD+, I am still searching. Thanks.

Better:)

I wouldn't say I'm "Happy" with 1.0, I fully expect advancement. Now me personally all I care about is the movies. But I know people who love extras, so I expect Blu-Ray to progress to 2.0. I agree with pretty much everyone here, to survive the format has to get to 2.0, unlike a lot of you here I don't see a problem with them doing it.

I believe you! Early adopters are used to this type of situation and when updated players are available, they'll buy one and move their current player to another room. But the timing on producing the updated players is critical. If mass adoption comes, say this Christmas, and BD sells a lot of obsolete players, they will create a public relations nightmare. And the studios aren't going to wait forever either. Warner can't release several movies until the SA's can support the planned features. I think they'll walk on BD if they don't get their act together soon.

I believe you! Early adopters are used to this type of situation and when updated players are available, they'll buy one and move their current player to another room. But the timing on producing the updated players is critical. If mass adoption comes, say this Christmas, and BD sells a lot of obsolete players, they will create a public relations nightmare. And the studios aren't going to wait forever either. Warner can't release several movies until the SA's can support the planned features. I think they'll walk on BD if they don't get their act together soon.

Iceman i dont see why the players would be obsolete? They should still play the movie. If they dont, well im sure most BD owners will not be happy, and Sony's campaing might end there. I dont forsee that happening thought. No one is that stupid....well nevermind, i'll leave that open to interpretation :D

Nice links - they are both RECORDABLE MEDIA - not ROM:






You have no idea what Deep Color or xvYCC are yet you think that BD can accomodate them?

The TL Twin is a 3 layer HD DVD/SD DVD:

30/4.7 - 2 layers of HD, 1 layer of SD - all on the same side
15/9 - 1 layer HD, 2 layers of SD - all on the same side.

There is NO planned increase of resolution past 1920x1080 for the foreseeable future with the exception of Digital Cinema which will be 4000x2000. (called SHD - Super HD) and is TOTALLY incompatible with BD or HD DVD.


Not to mention ALL TVs

Iceman i dont see why the players would be obsolete? They should still play the movie. If they dont, well im sure most BD owners will not be happy, and Sony's campaing might end there. I dont forsee that happening thought. No one is that stupid....well nevermind, i'll leave that open to interpretation :D

No, I assumed they would still play movies. That's why I said the EA would just move the player to another room. I meant obsolete as far as profile 1.1 and 2.0.

I believe you! Early adopters are used to this type of situation and when updated players are available, they'll buy one and move their current player to another room. But the timing on producing the updated players is critical. If mass adoption comes, say this Christmas, and BD sells a lot of obsolete players, they will create a public relations nightmare. And the studios aren't going to wait forever either. Warner can't release several movies until the SA's can support the planned features. I think they'll walk on BD if they don't get their act together soon.

Moving your non-BDROM Profile 2.0 player to another room is fine as long as there's another room that makes sense for it. I've two setups in two rooms and both are wireless capable. A non-2.0 machine simply doesn't fit in :(! That means that although I've already started to purchase BD, I've no way of knowing when a BR standalone will be introduced that makes sense for me :confused:!

It's a very frustrating situation! This is compounded by the BR insiders saying BDROM Profile 2.0 is fully optional to manufacturers -- unlike 1.1, 2.0 isn't expected to be mandated!

Maybe not sure, in the last few weeks I have been reading thousands of articles for both sides so it's easy to confuse them. It could be BD+, I am still searching. Thanks.
Here's the link http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11597230#post11597230

If mass adoption comes, say this Christmas,

No worries. By Xmas 2007, there will be about 50 million households with HDTVs in North America; and possibly 1+ million hidef standalone players split between HD DVD and Blu-ray. To reach "mass adoption", or even "critical mass" you're looking at something closer to 10-15 million players. The CEs don't have the capacity to make those in time.

The newest samsung model has an ethernet port on the back, which is right next to the java logo, which suggests that the player could be upgradable to 1.1 or possibly 2.0.

The newest samsung model has an ethernet port on the back, which is right next to the java logo, which suggests that the player could be upgradable to 1.1 or possibly 2.0.

The P1200 has an ethernet port as does the P1400.

Java has NOTHING to do with 1.1 or 2.0. These are primarily hardware issues having to do with the SoC.

The SoC must have twin processors so that DS PIP and DS Audio are possible. Plus the SoC must be able to handle Luma Keying. The player must have 256 MB of memory.

For 2.0 Web enable (BD-Live) the memory climbs to 1 GB and Ethernet port is mandatory.

If the correct SoC is NOT in the player than it is impossible to upgrade it with firmware. There is talk that extra memory may be solved . . . you are going to love this one;

By the owner of the player having to buy an additional memory module of some kind with 768 MB and plugging into the USB port. It will be propriatary.

The newest samsung model has an ethernet port on the back, which is right next to the java logo, which suggests that the player could be upgradable to 1.1 or possibly 2.0.

There is another problem here also. And that is that both these players use the broadcom 7411 chips. And even broadcom does not advertise that chip as 1.1+. Now if they had used the 7440 then it would be very possible.

There is another problem here also. And that is that both these players use the broadcom 7411 chips. And even broadcom does not advertise that chip as 1.1+. Now if they had used the 7440 then it would be very possible.I don't believe this is entirely correct. The Sammy 1200 (now discontinued) used the 7411. The Sammy 2400 has apparently been cancelled, and the Dou Player (U5000) had been previously reported (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/11038.cfm) to be using the 7440b. I don't know what the 1400 uses, which is the player shipping now. Anyone know?

The newest samsung model has an ethernet port on the back, which is right next to the java logo, which suggests that the player could be upgradable to 1.1 or possibly 2.0.
Ethernet has nothing to do with 1.1. 1.1 requires two a/v decoders, which either are there or they aren't (except with the PS3).

so that DS PIP and DS Audio are possible.I give up! Just what does your "DS" acronym mean? :confused: Nobody else seems to be using it. Now SD PiP, I would understand.

I don't believe this is entirely correct. The Sammy 1200 (now discontinued) used the 7411. The Sammy 2400 has apparently been cancelled, and the Dou Player (U5000) had been previously reported (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/11038.cfm) to be using the 7440b. I don't know what the 1400 uses, which is the player shipping now. Anyone know?

Economies of scale would suggest the same chip for both, however the 1400 is much cheaper which could overturn that. I haven't run into any discussion on the 1400 innards yet, only external behavior. The thing I view as a downer for the 1400 is just that Samsung described the 2400 as being DTS-HD MA upgradable, whereas no mention was made for the 1400. I expect we'll eventually see a disection.

I give up! Just what does your "DS" acronym mean? :confused: Nobody else seems to be using it. Now SD PiP, I would understand.

DS = Dual Stream

Off topic and bickering posts removed.

So long as Blu-Ray players remain incomplete and inferior to HD DVD counter parts I will not buy a Blu-Ray player.

then you can live with all of the glitches that are present with hd dvd that personally i am sick and tired of. (i own an a1 and xa2 and 100+ hd dvds) i have not had one single glitch on the blu-ray side... inferior technology = toshiba hd dvd not blu-ray. i can't believe i bought into toshiba, i don't know what the hell i was thinking! :eek: i LOVE my hd and that's the reason, yeah that's it.. :rolleyes:

then you can live with all of the glitches that are present with hd dvd that personally i am sick and tired of. (i own an a1 and xa2 and 100+ hd dvds) i have not had one single glitch on the blu-ray side... inferior technology = toshiba hd dvd not blu-ray. i can't believe i bought into toshiba, i don't know what the hell i was thinking! :eek: i LOVE my hd and that's the reason, yeah that's it.. :rolleyes:

Aside from the combo disc there isn't anything wrong with HD DVD. So long as HD does what Blu-Ray can't I am sticking with HD DVD, and I use that language in a precise manner. HD DVD does what Blu-Ray disc can't. It's not a studio decision that is preventing Blu-Ray from equaling HD DVD, it is the incomplete hardware.

All I want from the BDA is a finalized player so I won't have to triple dip on players. I believe that is a reasonable request before I spend almost twice as money on a Blu-Ray player than I did HD DVD player.

Here's the link http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11597230#post11597230

Wayne he was talking about Fox having issues with BD+ not 1.1 profile disc not working on 1.0 players. By the way he says on that article they might have problems, and might not be compatible. As much as i would give credit to Denon because of the market they cover i think Panasonic Sony and the rest of the main CE on the BDA are smarter than that, and know better.

Might: Used to indicate a possibility or probability that is weaker than may.

All I want from the BDA is a finalized player so I won't have to triple dip on players. I believe that is a reasonable request before I spend almost twice as money on a Blu-Ray player than I did HD DVD player.

I would have bought a BD player by now if I knew that it really would work in the future. We have no ideas what features will be on future discs that will not work on 1.0 players. We also do not know how 1.1, 2.0, and BD+ discs will work on older players. There are just too many unknowns for players priced that high.

This situation must be frustrating for BD player manufacturers. True, most viewers probably don't care about PiP and interactive toys. But this is in the spec. A promise was made. The studios seem to like the extras. So the machines will be produced and sold.

But now that 1.1 is a reality and has a firm date for implementation, movies will need to conform as well. Perhaps studios can continue to put two copies of the movie on a (BD50) disc...one with PiP and one normal (The old fashioned way). But that may present problems to either the newer machines or the older players. And what about the menu system? Will "Pirates of the Caribbean" take even longer to load?

This transition period is troublesome for manufacturers and could cause delays. Research and Development can get quite expensive and result in higher prices for equipment. R & D time must also be invested in updating 1.0 players so they still work with the 'new' releases. Payment for the time spent updating a few older players can only be obtained from selling the new players. Look for prices to remain higher for BD equipment.

Many early adopters, me included, will simply wait and see how this plays out before embracing a second format for Hi-def movies.

-Byrd

This situation must be frustrating for BD player manufacturers. True, most viewers probably don't care about PiP and interactive toys. But this is in the spec. A promise was made. The studios seem to like the extras. So the machines will be produced and sold.

<snip>


It looks like Samsung, at least, is having a hard time ...


Samsung's high-end Blu-ray Disc player cancelled


Samsung was one of the first to market with a Blu-ray Disc player last year, but the South Korean company now appears to be pulling the plug on the release of its high-end player that was originally slated for this fall.

The Samsung BDP-2400 has been cancelled and will not be brought to market, according to WesleyTech. The report speculates that Samsung decided to cancel the player as it was unable to meet the October 31 deadline for BD 1.0 specifications.

The BDP-2400 isn’t the only machine to hit a release date snag, though, as Samsung’s dual-format HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc player is also reportedly pushed back to December.

The hybrid player, originally announced back in April, was expected for a release in October or November.

Samsung VP of Digital AV marketing Reid Sullivan said in a previous story, "Samsung is excited to introduce a new line of high-definition players that will enrich the theater experience at home... From the top-of-the-line BD-UP5000 to the entry BD-P1400 to the company's first home theater system with Blu-ray disc playback, Samsung offers a range of products at different price points to suit the growing consumer demand."

The news that Resident Evil: Extinction will be a Final Standard Profile title with a second stream Picture in Picture commentary feature has been confirmed by a Sony Pictures insider on the blu-ray.com forum, indicating that this will be the first such title from Sony Pictures on Blu-ray Disc.

With the FSP deadline at the end of October getting closer, it is comforting to know that the new features are coming - though not likely this year.

http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2007/10/03/final-standard-profile-title-from-sony-confirmed/

The news that Resident Evil: Extinction will be a Final Standard Profile title with a second stream Picture in Picture commentary feature has been confirmed by a Sony Pictures insider on the blu-ray.com forum, indicating that this will be the first such title from Sony Pictures on Blu-ray Disc.

With the FSP deadline at the end of October getting closer, it is comforting to know that the new features are coming - though not likely this year.

http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2007/10/03/final-standard-profile-title-from-sony-confirmed/

by final do you mean 1.1 or 2.0?

by final do you mean 1.1 or 2.0?


1.1

2.0 is called BD Live

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6490438.html

Full-profile Blu-ray players coming;

LG Electronics will launch one of the first Blu-ray Disc players boasting picture-in-picture functionality this month.

LG’s second-generation dual-format model will handle HD DVD advanced interactivity, as well as comply with ‘full profile specifications’ for Blu-ray players, reported the company’s product development director Tim Alessi at the HDTV DisplaySearch Conference here on Thursday.

As mandated by the Blu-ray Disc Assn., all Blu-ray hardware streeting after Oct. 31 must be full profile, carrying certain enhancements not required of earlier players. This broadened spec includes picture-in-picture and greater memory capacity.

Sony’s PlayStation 3 is expected to offer a firmware upgrade to fit this spec, but no availability date has been set.

To date, only HD DVD players can playback picture-in-picture, which has played a big part in such HD DVD titles as Warner Home Video’s 300.

Additionally, Pioneer Electronics will unveil its first full-profile player during January’s Consumer Electronics Show, said Pioneer senior manager of product planning and marketing Chris Walker at the conference.

Walker said Korean firm Daewoo and Japan-based Denon also will soon bow full-profile Blu-ray players.

However, HD DVD backers still own the market on Web functionality for now. No manufacturer has announced the rollout of BD Live players, which would be capable of such Web connectivity.

In fact, HD DVD will offer its most advanced Web features yet with the launch this year of remote networked control. With this feature, users can be linked up for private presentations, in which a group leader can direct the sessions remotely from a variety of devices, including mobile phones and PCs.

Microsoft HD DVD evangelist Kevin Collins said studios envision a filmmaker treating fans who’ve bought his or her HD DVD to exclusive discussions and video presentations.

Collins declined to name the HD DVD title set to first include remote networked control, but he said it will street by the end of the year.

The truth is that nobody outside of AVS or the few other sites involved in this stupid war even knows anything about profile 1.1. I am majorly involved through my purchases and I still don't understand what it is. But especially out in public where that means nothing and there is nothing advertised showing anything about profile 1.1.

No know. It is SAD that there is no disclosure about this from the BD camp. It is also sad that the new/review media have only recently started really talking about this.

How many people will feel screwed when they cannot even play those new features that come out next year and are heavily advertised for BD commercials?

Maybe with this war going on, the BDA companies would have gotten out of neutral on this IF the media had forced their hand by bringing this up from the start. I personally think the BDA companies that keep announcing the death of HD DVD actually believed what they were saying so they figured there was no rush. :D :p

How many people will feel screwed when they cannot even play those new features that come out next year and are heavily advertised for BD commercials?

Maybe with this war going on, the BDA companies would have gotten out of neutral on this IF the media had forced their hand by bringing this up from the start. I personally think the BDA companies that keep announcing the death of HD DVD actually believed what they were saying so they figured there was no rush. :D :p

That's exactly it. HD-DVD was supposed to already be dead and then the consumer would simply have no choice BUT to replace players to access enhanced features. It's the Sony way.

It appears to have backfired. Should be interesting to see if the discs have problems or not. We will know with the new resident evil flick.

That's exactly it. HD-DVD was supposed to already be dead and then the consumer would simply have no choice BUT to replace players to access enhanced features. It's the Sony way.

It appears to have backfired. Should be interesting to see if the discs have problems or not. We will know with the new resident evil flick.

its our moral responsibility to spread the word and let them know then. All the best ;)

BD should delay players with profile 1+ to post Q1 next year. By doing so they can be assured of 1 less major studio support. Profile 2 should be deferred to Oct of next year....that way we'll end up with one HD format by end of Q4 08.

So, delaying the advanced BD profiles seems like a good idea to me. Makes sense. Especially if HD gets their TL disks online before then.

yeh ok. TL not compatible with ANY currently released HDDVD player, and somehow this will end the format war.

And oh yeh, so you are basically agreeing that TL is the savior for HDDVD because it currently lacks the space necessary to do a decent encode? What happened to the 30gb is MORE than enough for any movie?

hypocrite

yeh ok. TL not compatible with ANY currently released HDDVD player, and somehow this will end the format war.

And oh yeh, so you are basically agreeing that TL is the savior for HDDVD because it currently lacks the space necessary to do a decent encode? What happened to the 30gb is MORE than enough for any movie?

hypocrite

I keep seeing this, yet everything that I have read says they still havent tested it. Until the TL is finalized and companies are testing and releasing results I dont either side can say anything really. As far as encodes go I have seen MANY decent encodes done with the space available today. The larger capacity discs open more doors then just for higher encode rates.

As far as 1.1 goes there are those people who will probably let behind as far as features go that is a given. Hopefully they will still be able to watch the moves without issue. I think as early adopters there is always a risk factor that we take when jumping into these things.

I do agree though with something that was said earlier outside of the forums and those in the business, customers dont even know about profiles much less the format war that is going on.

...

I do agree though with something that was said earlier outside of the forums and those in the business, customers dont even know about profiles much less the format war that is going on.

These outsiders are not going to like it when they learn about profiles and the format war the hard way.

yeh ok. TL not compatible with ANY currently released HDDVD player, and somehow this will end the format war.

And oh yeh, so you are basically agreeing that TL is the savior for HDDVD because it currently lacks the space necessary to do a decent encode? What happened to the 30gb is MORE than enough for any movie?

hypocrite

At this stage a TL51 HD DVD disc is as much science fiction as the BD50 was. :p

yeh ok. TL not compatible with ANY currently released HDDVD player, and somehow this will end the format war.

And oh yeh, so you are basically agreeing that TL is the savior for HDDVD because it currently lacks the space necessary to do a decent encode? What happened to the 30gb is MORE than enough for any movie?

hypocrite

I see this argument repeated all the time ... and, I guess, in a way, that's a sign that the BDA Supporters have run out of completely logical things to attack HD DVD about. You see, Profiles and TL51 are not the same thing. For example:

How many HD DVD PRG advertisements (print, TV, radio, etc) have you seen that discuss HD DVD's Capacity of 51GB, and tells everyone that it is larger than Blu-ray and that movies will be better because of it? Exactly, none.

Now, how many BDA advertisements have you seen that discuss PiP, advanced interactivity, and Networking connectivity? Exactly, a ton. In fact, you have to look no further than the Sony BDP-S300 add on this very Forum that touts 'Advanced and Next Generation Interactivity' and then links you to the "Now Lower Priced" $499 Sony BDP-S300.

TL51 is what it is ... and I'm not worried about it. It was never sold as being able to work on current players, so people shouldn't really care about it. If it doesn't work on current sets, then it's likely to never see the light of day. Furthermore, according to insiders, Studios have expressed no real interest in TL51. Why? Because, you really don't need it. Movies aren't getting longer, but codecs are getting better ... and we already have 3+ hours movies with reference PQ/AQ, and Interactivity on HD DVD.

Or do you expect movies to get longer and codec efficiency to get worse over time? :confused:

Ditto....I own both formats, purchase discs on both and enjoy both.


Most of the bickerers are single format owners (e.g. HD DVD only).


Actually bland it is both sides that bicker. I originally started out with HD-DVD and I bought my son a PS3 for games, but without any games I started buying BR movies now I enjoy movies on both formats.

Me too. :)

well...and the price. ;)

Show me a 2.0 profile BD-Live capable Blu-ray player for under $299 and you got my money.
i feel exactly the same way.

i feel exactly the same way.Patience. Maybe this time next year ;).

By that time -- same time next year that is -- we'll want BD Profile 2.0 + HD DVD Profile 2006 available for $299 in a dual player. ;)

LG Electronics will launch one of the first Blu-ray Disc players boasting picture-in-picture functionality this month.

LG’s second-generation dual-format model will handle HD DVD advanced interactivity, as well as comply with ‘full profile specifications’ for Blu-ray players, reported the company’s product development director Tim Alessi at the HDTV DisplaySearch Conference here on Thursday.

As mandated by the Blu-ray Disc Assn., all Blu-ray hardware streeting after Oct. 31 must be full profile, carrying certain enhancements not required of earlier players. This broadened spec includes picture-in-picture and greater memory capacity.

It would be nice to see an actual press release from LG and not just some guy jabbering at a conference. They are less than 3 weeks away from release and no official press release since early September.

BTW isn't profile 1.1 officially called "Final" not "Full" or am I just remembering this wrong?

It would be nice to see an actual press release from LG and not just some guy jabbering at a conference. They are less than 3 weeks away from release and no official press release since early September.

BTW isn't profile 1.1 officially called "Final" not "Full" or am I just remembering this wrong?

"Final" is 1.1. "Full" IMO means 1.1 and 2.0 (BD-Live - Web Enable)

I see this argument repeated all the time ... and, I guess, in a way, that's a sign that the BDA Supporters have run out of completely logical things to attack HD DVD about. You see, Profiles and TL51 are not the same thing. For example:

How many HD DVD PRG advertisements (print, TV, radio, etc) have you seen that discuss HD DVD's Capacity of 51GB, and tells everyone that it is larger than Blu-ray and that movies will be better because of it? Exactly, none.

Now, how many BDA advertisements have you seen that discuss PiP, advanced interactivity, and Networking connectivity? Exactly, a ton. In fact, you have to look no further than the Sony BDP-S300 add on this very Forum that touts 'Advanced and Next Generation Interactivity' and then links you to the "Now Lower Priced" $499 Sony BDP-S300.

TL51 is what it is ... and I'm not worried about it. It was never sold as being able to work on current players, so people shouldn't really care about it. If it doesn't work on current sets, then it's likely to never see the light of day. Furthermore, according to insiders, Studios have expressed no real interest in TL51. Why? Because, you really don't need it. Movies aren't getting longer, but codecs are getting better ... and we already have 3+ hours movies with reference PQ/AQ, and Interactivity on HD DVD.

Or do you expect movies to get longer and codec efficiency to get worse over time? :confused:

+1,000,000

Interactivity is neither web enabled features nor PiP. So yes, 1.0 BD player can have advanced interactivity. What it can't have is downloadable content(which should be in the disc in the first place...), access to studio stores(consumers shouldn't be happy about it...) and PiP(so that you can not only listen, but also see the director talking his ass off while you try to watch the movie...) :-)
And if 30GB are enough, why the HDDVD forum is wasting time developing a TL51 disc? A TL39(1xDVD+2xHDDVD) is usefull, but a TL51 would not be. So either Toshiba engineers have too much time on their hands, or someone actually wants 51GB...

Allan

ps. And regarding the title of the topic, the PS3 will be profile 1.1 after the October deadline... Hence why the firmware upgrade is set for 30 October, and the launch of the new 40Gb model is predicted to November 2nd...(which would force it to be 1.1) And unless plans change again, the LG dual-player should be 1.1 too...

Countdown: 17 days till the October 31 BD profile 1.1 deadline

Interactivity is neither web enabled features nor PiP. So yes, 1.0 BD player can have advanced interactivity. What it can't have is downloadable content(which should be in the disc in the first place...), access to studio stores(consumers shouldn't be happy about it...) and PiP(so that you can not only listen, but also see the director talking his ass off while you try to watch the movie...) :-)
And if 30GB are enough, why the HDDVD forum is wasting time developing a TL51 disc? A TL39(1xDVD+2xHDDVD) is usefull, but a TL51 would not be. So either Toshiba engineers have too much time on their hands, or someone actually wants 51GB...

Allan

ps. And regarding the title of the topic, the PS3 will be profile 1.1 after the October deadline... Hence why the firmware upgrade is set for 30 October, and the launch of the new 40Gb model is predicted to November 2nd...(which would force it to be 1.1) And unless plans change again, the LG dual-player should be 1.1 too...

It's a case of sour grapes for most blu boys. You keep saying web is nothing more than a shop, but it's so much more. Transformers will feature dynamic content that evolves and expands the product lifecycle of the disc. Creates perpetual value with new features and exclusives such as special TF2 trailers, features and information. Among others. The web is dynamic, live and ever changing, this mandatory features that have been mastered by the DVD Forum since day one of HD DVD are engaging and bring a new experience to consumers.

You can't put a trailer for TF2 on the disc, there is not one but you can offer it as a special and exclusive download at a later date. You can't do that with static discs like Blu-ray.

Why shouldn't consumers be happy with stores? Stores can be great, being able to purchase movie props, gifts and items sounds awesome and remember it's optional. Too many Blu fans like to pretend that the web is just about hawking movie merchandise and nnothing more. It's opens up an e xciting world, like community based features, sharing content, updates. And now the new live screening function, where you can watch a movie with friends all around the world in real-time, and share messages and thoughts. This is the future. I love love love it. HD DVD is the ultimate and clear choice, why wait for Sony to get their profiles in order, could take years and pricing is already so high, all of the announced 1.1 players are $1999. 2.0, oh good grief will probably run you even more and no set time frame for that. Why wait? When you can have the future of next-gen features and engaging experiences today - on every single player!!

Sony is trying to play catch up, but has a long way to go.

It's a case of sour grapes for most blu boys. You keep saying web is nothing more than a shop, but it's so much more. Transformers will feature dynamic content that evolves and expands the product lifecycle of the disc. Creates perpetual value with new features and exclusives such as special TF2 trailers, features and information. Among others. The web is dynamic, live and ever changing, this mandatory features that have been mastered by the DVD Forum since day one of HD DVD are engaging and bring a new experience to consumers.

You can't put a trailer for TF2 on the disc, there is not one but you can offer it as a special and exclusive download at a later date. You can't do that with static discs like Blu-ray.

Why shouldn't consumers be happy with stores? Stores can be great, being able to purchase movie props, gifts and items sounds awesome and remember it's optional. Too many Blu fans like to pretend that the web is just about hawking movie merchandise and nnothing more. It's opens up an e xciting world, like community based features, sharing content, updates. And now the new live screening function, where you can watch a movie with friends all around the world in real-time, and share messages and thoughts. This is the future. I love love love it. HD DVD is the ultimate and clear choice, why wait for Sony to get their profiles in order, could take years and pricing is already so high, all of the announced 1.1 players are $1999. 2.0, oh good grief will probably run you even more and no set time frame for that. Why wait? When you can have the future of next-gen features and engaging experiences today - on every single player!!



Sony is trying to play catch up, but has a long way to go.

Did you copy that out of a flyer inside one of your HD DVD Movies... lol I will say for the record if you spend more than 5 min in one of these stupid stores through your slow internet player then you need something better to do... These are movies, not a giga pet, your copy of Transformers isn't going to transform into anything except for a movie you will watch a few times and it will sit on the shelf when the next big movie comes out just like all movies, so before you go off thinking Transformers is a life changing event... wake up!!! This movie isn't going to change the format war and it isn't going to solve world peace its a movie with some nifty 5 min gimmick tricks to get you to open up your pocketbook more than the 30 bucks you already shelled out.

Did you copy that out of a flyer inside one of your HD DVD Movies

Wow thank you, I appreciate the compliment. No actually I wrote that, but looking back it does sound like a marketing statement. I have to say, I am very flattered:p

Wow thank you, I appreciate the compliment. No actually I wrote that, but looking back it does sound like a marketing statement. I have to say, I am very flattered:p


It just sounded to corporate like a commercial to make up but hey send that stuff in they going to need some good marketing by the end of qtr 4 :) Maybe they will pay you enough to get a Blu Ray player....

It just sounded to corporate like a commercial to make up but hey send that stuff in they going o need some good marketing by the end of qtr 4 :)

Thanks, I think Sony will need some major help come Q108, beyond even my tiny writing skills to weasle out how the war didn't end, how PS3 didn't sell as well as expected and how WB defected ;)

EDIT: Why didn't you just add that new stuff to a new reply, versus editing? Now I have to go back to address it lol

I will say for the record if you spend more than 5 min in one of these stupid stores through your slow internet player then you need something better to do... These are movies, not a giga pet, your copy of Transformers isn't going to transform into anything except for a movie you will watch a few times and it will sit on the shelf when the next big movie comes out just like all movies, so before you go off thinking Transformers is a life changing event... wake up!!! This movie isn't going to change the format war and it isn't going to solve world peace its a movie with some nifty 5 min gimmick tricks to get you to open up your pocketbook more than the 30 bucks you already shelled out.

My connection is hi-speed but thanks for the concern. And it's called evolution, next-gen. Were video games always intended to be played online and content to be updated? No, the gaming industry embraced the web and changed the way we play games by being able to share content, play against people, receive updates, buy content and games and other exclusives. The same with home movies, it's all about changing the experience. If you want to remain in a time capsule and watch movies the old school way, simply don't use those features or don't even plug in the ethernet cable. No one is forcing you to engage this exciting new experiences. They are optional.

No need to be condescending or so aggressive about it, did I say this movie is a life changing event? Certainly not, but cool it is. No need to be bitter about it. I get it, you like watching movies the old way, I don't care either way. The web can expand the use of the features by changing them, something new to watch is something new afterall. As I stated among others have, don't like? Ignore the extras. No one is twisting your arm here. I call sour grapes.

Reggie Fils-Aime, President of Nintendo of America made this eloquent statement at E3 in 2006 and it's just so true. Applies to Sony's original position of just offering a format that is basically 1080p DVD versus a new experience and the arrogance of PS3 in general, by offering the same old experience of late:

The graveyard of any industry is filled with the headstones
of companies who decided to keep doing things the same old way.
Playing only on the margin, making things only just a little bit better.
That strategy works for a while, but ultimately it's fatal. It's about
being different, and engaging the market with new experiences that
will radically change how the public perceives your product.

Transformers will feature dynamic content that evolves and expands the product lifecycle of the disc.Interesting promotional spin but do you have any idea what will actually be added to that disc as time goes on? Don't forget that the studios have an incentive to release new editions of movies so some of the theories I have heard about internet extras and how they will allow for studios to add content as time goes on somewhat ignores the economic reality that studios exist to make money.


The web is dynamic, live and ever changing, this mandatory features that have been mastered by the DVD Forum since day one of HD DVD are engaging and bring a new experience to consumers.It took Toshiba over a year to update the firmware to enable internet extras and few HD DVD discs have internet extras at the moment so I don't really see how they mastered it since day one.


Why wait? When you can have the future of next-gen features and engaging experiences today - on every single player!!Personally I can understand why you post about internet extras on HD DVD but there are many factors in this format war and to me the advantages that Blu-ray has are more important.

You keep saying web is nothing more than a shop, but it's so much more. Transformers will feature dynamic content that evolves and expands the product lifecycle of the disc. Creates perpetual value with new features and exclusives such as special TF2 trailers, features and information. Among others. The web is dynamic, live and ever changing, this mandatory features that have been mastered by the DVD Forum since day one of HD DVD are engaging and bring a new experience to consumers.

Yup, that's it in a nutshell.

Lots of folks thought TV was stupid, too; who wants to look at pictures when all you get are talking heads? Do you have to see the orchestra when what you really want to do is listen to it? And then who has the time to sit in front of gall danged contraption when there are chores to do and you can listen to the wireless in the background?

There's a "vision thing" going on with HD DVD which is slowly being executed in reality. We've only seen glimpses so far -- proof of concept stuff like Blood Diamond, Bourne Identity and Heroes. I am expecting Transformers and Shrek 3 will suprirse and delight many people as the creative folks in Hollywood and Webland start to marry reality with concepts.

On the Blu-ray side, there is nothing yet like this. PiP commentaries, btw, aren't just about some director yaking in a chair in front of a camera instead of into a microphone -- they include mini-documentaries keyed to specific scenes as well. Done right, it's very cool -- and adds great value to the movie experience. Batman Begins is a great example of this.

The irony is Blu-ray is supposed to be the "cool" platform where Mac like designer folk hang out but the platform is consistently missing this: execution, execution, execution. Talk is normally cheap; in a format war talk is not enough and probably fatal. Still, Disney has big plans some months from now; one wonders if they might find implementing them on HD DVD will get them to market sooner and more profitably. I'd bet more than one Disney exec will be lining up to buy Shrek 3 to see how well it dances.

Thanks, I think Sony will need some major help come Q108, beyond even my tiny writing skills to weasle out how the war didn't end, how PS3 didn't sell as well as expected and how WB defected ;)

EDIT: Why didn't you just add that new stuff to a new reply, versus editing? Now I have to go back to address it lol



My connection is hi-speed but thanks for the concern. And it's called evolution, next-gen. Were video games always intended to be played online and content to be updated? No, the gaming industry embraced the web and changed the way we play games by being able to share content, play against people, receive updates, buy content and games and other exclusives. The same with home movies, it's all about changing the experience. If you want to remain in a time capsule and watch movies the old school way, simply don't use those features or don't even plug in the ethernet cable. No one is forcing you to engage this exciting new experiences. They are optional.

No need to be condescending or so aggressive about it, did I say this movie is a life changing event? Certainly not, but cool it is. No need to be bitter about it. I get it, you like watching movies the old way, I don't care either way. The web can expand the use of the features by changing them, something new to watch is something new afterall. As I stated among others have, don't like? Ignore the extras. No one is twisting your arm here. I call sour grapes.

I am saying high speed internet or not these types of machines do not do internet all that well and the interface is usually quite slow, did you ever think that if you don't buy the junk they hawking and lets be honest they just trying to sell you more stuff its not usually good information its like watching commercials, so lets say you and I don't buy this stuff you know it costs money to put up these servers to maintain them to hire people to write the programs to add new stuff, then what they pull the plug on the server and there is nowhere to get the stuff you thought you were getting with the purchase of the disc when in reality you getting these special features online is based upon you paying for them whether it be a higher priced movie or buying the stuff they selling online. Lets be honest if MS wrote the codes for the secure transactions I would be scared to put my CC info into the machine.

Interesting promotional spin but do you have any idea what will actually be added to that disc as time goes on?

Personally I can understand why you post about internet extras on HD DVD but there are many factors in this format war and to me the advantages that Blu-ray has are more important.

No spin, just the opinion of a consumer. In terms of extras, we will find out on Tuesday. Though the plan is to add new content everyday for a week after street date and then periodic updates as we near TF2. I post about what appeals to me as a consumer, some guys go crazy for VC-1 and lossless audio, I am more of a content and features guy. Thus that's what appeals to me. Different consumers = different needs.

You make a good point, it's so early. Look what's being done now and with TF, among other films this quarter. Imagine what can be done later. It's too early to impugn HDi and web features are useless extras with no appeal. We have no idea how this will evolve in the future. MS redefined online gaming and has the best gaming experience of any console, imagine what the HDi consortium will do for HD DVD.

Yup, that's it in a nutshell.

Lots of folks thought TV was stupid, too; who wants to look at pictures when all you get are talking heads? Do you have to see the orchestra when what you really want to do is listen to it? And then who has the time to sit in front of gall danged contraption when there are chores to do and you can listen to the wireless in the background?

There's a "vision thing" going on with HD DVD which is slowly being executed in reality. We've only seen glimpses so far -- proof of concept stuff like Blood Diamond, Bourne Identity and Heroes. I am expecting Transformers and Shrek 3 will suprirse and delight many people as the creative folks in Hollywood and Webland start to marry reality with concepts.

On the Blu-ray side, there is nothing yet like this. PiP commentaries, btw, aren't just about some director yaking in a chair in front of a camera instead of into a microphone -- they include mini-documentaries keyed to specific scenes as well. Done right, it's very cool -- and adds great value to the movie experience.

The irony is Blu-ray is supposed to be the "cool" platform where Mac like designer folk hang out but the platform is consistently missing this: execution, execution, execution. Talk is normally cheap; in a format war talk is not enough and probably fatal. Still, Disney has big plans some months from now; one wonders if they might find implementing them on HD DVD will get them to market sooner and more profitably.

Well said, thank you.

I am saying high speed internet or not these types of machines do not do internet all that well and the interface is usually quite slow, did you ever think that if you don't buy the junk they hawking and lets be honest they just trying to sell you more stuff its not usually good information its like watching commercials, so lets say you and I don't buy this stuff you know it costs money to put up these servers to maintain them to hire people to write the programs to add new stuff, then what they pull the plug on the server and there is nowhere to get the stuff you thought you were getting with the purchase of the disc when in reality you getting these special features online is based upon you paying for them whether it be a higher priced movie or buying the stuff they selling online. Lets be honest if MS wrote the codes for the secure transactions I would be scared to put my CC info into the machine.

In terms of cost, I am sure they will just be "HD DVD" editions of their current web sites and come out of the budget for web. I don't expect it to be huge costs for them, but I cannot speculate on the matter as I am not privy to such details to make a proper assessment. They already have web teams, the layout is built into the discs, you're just accessing content as I understand it based on an interview regarding Evan Almighty.

If MS wrote the code, I surely would not mind. Have they ever had a credit card breach? Not that I've heard of, whereas AOL has it repeated ones.

I am saying high speed internet or not these types of machines do not do internet all that well and the interface is usually quite slow, did you ever think that if you don't buy the junk they hawking and lets be honest they just trying to sell you more stuff its not usually good information its like watching commercials, so lets say you and I don't buy this stuff you know it costs money to put up these servers to maintain them to hire people to write the programs to add new stuff, then what they pull the plug on the server and there is nowhere to get the stuff you thought you were getting with the purchase of the disc when in reality you getting these special features online is based upon you paying for them whether it be a higher priced movie or buying the stuff they selling online.

If you love movies you might enjoy Jean-Luc Godard's classic Breathless (http://imdb.com/title/tt0053472/). Or perhaps something by James Joyce who also abstained from punctuation.

No spin, just the opinion of a consumer. In terms of extras, we will find out on Tuesday. Though the plan is to add new content everyday for a week after street date and then periodic updates as we near TF2.It will be interesting to see what those periodic updates are and whether that sort of thing will be common or rare for the other HD DVD movies that have internet extras.


You make a good point, it's so early. Look what's being done now and with TF, among other films this quarter. Imagine what can be done later.Note that I am interested in certain types of internet extras but personally speaking I would rather wait for them to arrive on Blu-ray than to give up the advantages of Blu-ray.

It's a case of sour grapes for most blu boys. You keep saying web is nothing more than a shop, but it's so much more. Transformers will feature dynamic content that evolves and expands the product lifecycle of the disc. Creates perpetual value with new features and exclusives such as special TF2 trailers, features and information. Among others. The web is dynamic, live and ever changing, this mandatory features that have been mastered by the DVD Forum since day one of HD DVD are engaging and bring a new experience to consumers. I remember hearing all the same things about the DVD ROM content on SD DVDs.

Wasn't that just a smashing success.

It melts my heart to hear so many HD-DVD fans concerned about Blu-Ray's novelty features. In a few months, I wonder what they'll have to talk about.

It will be interesting to see what those periodic updates are and whether that sort of thing will be common or rare for the other HD DVD movies that have internet extras.

Note that I am interested in certain types of internet extras but personally speaking I would rather wait for them to arrive on Blu-ray than to give up the advantages of Blu-ray.

I understand, but for me it's not about giving up any BD advantages just for these features. I am very satisfied with HD DVD, and I also have BD. Since this topic is about 1.1, that's why my posts have focused on that and the HDi features of HD DVD. These aren't sole reasons, and I think it's unfortunate too many blu boys like to insist when someone says they love HDi, it means at the expense of everything else.

We all enjoy different things and I don't expect everyone (especially the older demographic, which usually doesn't enjoy this content) to be amazed or interested in interactivity.

It melts my heart to hear so many HD-DVD fans concerned about Blu-Ray's novelty features. In a few months, I wonder what they'll have to talk about.

It will be longer than a few months, has 2.0's release been announced?

I remember hearing all the same things about the DVD ROM content on SD DVDs.

Wasn't that just a smashing success.

Yeah they failed for many reasons, Yankee Research Group showed it had reasonable success but the problem was the PC. The difference here is that with HD DVD they can offer a consistent streamlined product from their TV versus varying experiences on PCs. There was plenty of hardware confusion among consumers and studios didn't push it that much, except Disney at the start.

For me, it never attracted me much because the extras were usually scripts or a game and had to be done on my PC.

It melts my heart to hear so many HD-DVD fans concerned about Blu-Ray's novelty features. In a few months, I wonder what they'll have to talk about.

of course they need to obsess about BD.....BD is the market leader even with 1.0 players. So once 1.1 players start showing up, and the PS3 is upgraded to 1.1 as well, the sales gap will just increase. Add to the fact that the PS3 will be priced at $399 for the holiday season and its pretty much game over.

Basically Shrek/Transformers/Bourne has to turn the sales numbers around for HDDVD. If the same ratios (or worse) still turned up AFTER these titles are released, I don't see how they can survive.

of course they need to obsess about BD.....BD is the market leader even with 1.0 players. So once 1.1 players start showing up, and the PS3 is upgraded to 1.1 as well, the sales gap will just increase. Add to the fact that the PS3 will be priced at $399 for the holiday season and its pretty much game over.

Basically Shrek/Transformers/Bourne has to turn the sales numbers around for HDDVD. If the same ratios (or worse) still turned up AFTER these titles are released, I don't see how they can survive.

You mean that new $1049 1.1 player? I think too many are awaiting for a victory that isn't coming at least not this quarter. Last Christmas was suppose to be the end, PS3 was suppose to end it all, then with the price drop to $499 and now the weight and success is being bound to a game console, that is basically a PS3 Lite for $399. Too muchy focus on a game console, when SOny should be focusing on affordable players, not new $1999 1.1 machines due next year or that LG for $1049 in December.

1.1 won't even support existing hardware, with the exception of PS3. You have the problem of varying and inconsistent experiences. If studios push interactive features like PiP on a film, how are consumers with 1.0 static players going to feel about it? It will surely increase operating costs, consumers are confused, calling in for support and thus costing manufacturers money and satisfaction, which could lead to disloyalty and frustration. Disney's Cars now with PiP, but only select players - doesn't sound very consumer friendly. Nor does Panasonic having to inform people with $1000 hardware that it cannot be upgraded and they need to now purchase a new 1.1 player, sometime in 2008. I know some will argue that most or some won't care about these features, but face it, people just want stuff just to have it sometimes and I think there will be a real market interested in at least experiencing these features when they see adverts touting the them.

I think there will be a myriad of problems for studios, manufacturers and consumers, that's the issue with launching a format that is incomplete. The experiences will vary and it's difficult to consumers.

On a side note, wow HK; I loved visiting HK. The Peninsula HK is amazing, I hope to go back ;)

Basically Shrek/Transformers/Bourne has to turn the sales numbers around for HDDVD. If the same ratios (or worse) still turned up AFTER these titles are released, I don't see how they can survive.

Those titles will turn in very strong figures: starting with Transformers on Tue Oct 16 at 1000s of Wal-mart stores across North America. And a nice follow-up with Shrek 3 on Nov 16 leading into Black Friday.

And while it's a three format release, Harry Potter from Warner is the dual punch with The Bourne Ultimatum on Dec 11. Harry Potter on HD DVD and nice new DVD player (which happens to be an HD A3 plus plays the DVD versions also included) makes a nice final Xmas splurge for many families; the Blu-ray edition, alas, is only Blu-ray (can't be played in the car or elsewhere in the house) and requires a $500 DVD player. For Wal-mart audiences, the choice will be easy.

It will be interesting to see what those periodic updates are and whether that sort of thing will be common or rare for the other HD DVD movies that have internet extras.


Note that I am interested in certain types of internet extras but personally speaking I would rather wait for them to arrive on Blu-ray than to give up the advantages of Blu-ray.

Except Blu-ray has no real tanigble advantages. And you need to sit back and wait for it to merely catch up to HD DVD. But, hey, whatever works for you.

Does it make sense to wait years to get these extra features when players are available now for $200? Maybe, depends on your budget ... but I'm pretty confident that most people that can afford a $1000 Profile 1.0 obsolete Blu-ray player can also afford a pair of bills for an HD DVD player.

But, I guess that's the difference between being a fan of HDM versus a fan of one company versus another.

It melts my heart to hear so many HD-DVD fans concerned about Blu-Ray's novelty features. In a few months, I wonder what they'll have to talk about.

In a few months, we'll hear from the BDA how great these features are. In fact, it already started. You don't have to point towards HD DVD fans to point this out. Blu-ray Exclusive Studios like Fox and Disney are pushing these features and they are key points in their press releases. You can choose to belittle it all you want -- it just makes it look like sour grapes. In the end, once these features are available, I'm sure Sony will tell us that 'Next Generation Interactivity started with them'. :rolleyes:

If anyone is running out of talking points, it's the BDA ... not the other way around.

Interactivity is neither web enabled features nor PiP. So yes, 1.0 BD player can have advanced interactivity. What it can't have is downloadable content(which should be in the disc in the first place...), access to studio stores(consumers shouldn't be happy about it...) and PiP(so that you can not only listen, but also see the director talking his ass off while you try to watch the movie...) :-)
And if 30GB are enough, why the HDDVD forum is wasting time developing a TL51 disc? A TL39(1xDVD+2xHDDVD) is usefull, but a TL51 would not be. So either Toshiba engineers have too much time on their hands, or someone actually wants 51GB...

Allan

ps. And regarding the title of the topic, the PS3 will be profile 1.1 after the October deadline... Hence why the firmware upgrade is set for 30 October, and the launch of the new 40Gb model is predicted to November 2nd...(which would force it to be 1.1) And unless plans change again, the LG dual-player should be 1.1 too...

So all the features exclusive to HD DVD are 'lame'? Yet if the tables were turned it would be "Awesome features!", right? :rolleyes:

So all the features exclusive to HD DVD are 'lame'? Yet if the tables were turned it would be "Awesome features!", right? :rolleyes:

Of Course!

The old "BD Double Standard." So what's new?

:confused:

Except Blu-ray has no real tanigble advantages.Personal opinion, and personally I think that both HD formats have advantages and I just prefer the advantages that Blu-ray has.


But, I guess that's the difference between being a fan of HDM versus a fan of one company versus another.For someone who doesn't own a Blu-ray player are you actually criticizing me for not owning a HD DVD player? Also I have said many times before that if it had been Toshiba and Microsoft that had made Blu-ray I would support it because what I care most about is the video format itself. That is the truth regardless of what you seem to think.


Of Course!

The old "BD Double Standard." So what's new?When I see criticisms like this against Blu-ray supporters while you ignore HD DVD supporters who say the same things about Blu-ray I can't help but wonder if you really don't see the irony in that. If your going to accuse someone of having a double standard simply because they have different priorities than you the least you can do is be fair about it. In other words don't claim that ninjanki has double standards if you are not willing to say the same about jdg345. Both have said the same things about the other HD format but for some reason you think that only ninjanki should be criticized for such statements. To me that is a real double standard.

Those titles will turn in very strong figures: starting with Transformers on Tue Oct 16 at 1000s of Wal-mart stores across North America. And a nice follow-up with Shrek 3 on Nov 16 leading into Black Friday.

And while it's a three format release, Harry Potter from Warner is the dual punch with The Bourne Ultimatum on Dec 11. Harry Potter on HD DVD and nice new DVD player (which happens to be an HD A3 plus plays the DVD versions also included) makes a nice final Xmas splurge for many families; the Blu-ray edition, alas, is only Blu-ray (can't be played in the car or elsewhere in the house) and requires a $500 DVD player. For Wal-mart audiences, the choice will be easy.


Thats because wal-mart sells a ton of hdm and players don't they, yeah oops they don't your lucky to find any hdm movies at Walmart and the people that go to walmart are going to be upset to find transformers on HD DVD but then nothing but a xbox 360 add on to play it on

Thats because wal-mart sells a ton of hdm and players don't they, yeah oops they don't your lucky to find any hdm movies at Walmart and the people that go to walmart are going to be upset to find transformers on HD DVD but then nothing but a xbox 360 add on to play it on

And you know this how?

Have you to been to all 4300 Wal-Mart stores?:rolleyes:

Personal opinion, and personally I think that both HD formats have advantages and I just prefer the advantages that Blu-ray has.


Like ... for example?


For someone who doesn't own a Blu-ray player are you actually criticizing me for not owning a HD DVD player? Also I have said many times before that if it had been Toshiba and Microsoft that had made Blu-ray I would support it because what I care most about is the video format itself. That is the truth regardless of what you seem to think.


And who says I don't own a Blu-ray player exactly?


When I see criticisms like this against Blu-ray supporters while you ignore HD DVD supporters who say the same things about Blu-ray I can't help but wonder if you really don't see the irony in that. If your going to accuse someone of having a double standard simply because they have different priorities than you the least you can do is be fair about it. In other words don't claim that ninjanki has double standards if you are not willing to say the same about jdg345. Both have said the same things about the other HD format but for some reason you think that only ninjanki should be criticized for such statements. To me that is a real double standard.

Wow ... now you're smearing me. :rolleyes:

Seriously, it's ironic that you bring this up when you have done exactly this in the format battle thread (and others) over and over. In fact, you just used the term, "HD DVD Supporters" above when in the Format Battle thread, you went on for what seemed like *pages* about how I shouldn't use the term 'BDA Supporter' because it contributes to tribalism which you felt there was already too much of. Look no further for a definition of 'double standard'. :rolleyes:

So it's October 15th, and only about 2 weeks to go till the BD 1.1 deadline, and still no BD 1.1 players.

BD 1.0 players still look to be the only option on the horizon...

Thats because wal-mart sells a ton of hdm and players don't they, yeah oops they don't your lucky to find any hdm movies at Walmart and the people that go to walmart are going to be upset to find transformers on HD DVD but then nothing but a xbox 360 add on to play it on

Then it looks like some of the 11 million XBox 360 owners might decide to upgrade :)

So it's October 15th, and only about 2 weeks to go till the BD 1.1 deadline, and still no BD 1.1 players.

BD 1.0 players still look to be the only option on the horizon...

PS3 might receive a firmware upgrade enabling 1.1.

But at any rate, WRT standalones, it's very disappointing. They lost a sale with me.

PS3 might receive a firmware upgrade enabling 1.1.

But at any rate, WRT standalones, it's very disappointing. They lost a sale with me.

Keyword is "might"

I still have $399 burning a hole in my wallet waiting for that to be official. Maybe I'll just buy some HD DVDs instead of sitting around waiting.

The real problem with web content for the HDM formats is this simple: Why the heck a person that DOES have broadband internet on their homes need the HD-DVD or BD player to access movie trailer, online stores, trivia tracks and other stuff the content providers may offer in exchange for the possibility of selling something or keeping the franchise strong??? I don't think I know of ANYONE that has purchased and installed internet access on their homes to serve their home-theater player and NOT their PC... If I have a PC, why do I need to access the content through HDDVD? I mean, sure, it is nice to have it on the player too, but I am a tech freak and I don't see much advantage. Most normal people don't care, or want to do specific things on their internet time, which is not what BD-live or HDi propose. And it seems that the PS3 and the x360 do this trailer/promotional thing much better, for not much more money than a dedicated HDM player...

To me, the only thing really worth downloading to the player is more subtitles, IF the original disc did not had all the subtitles tracks. Any trailer will eat up a huge amount of space on my local storage, could be equally downloaded on a PC, and has nothing to do with the consumer interest on the movie they bought, but is actually a commercial for another movie...(so it is a studio feature, not a consumer feature...)

GizmoDVD and Lee,

You guys should be the last to talk about double standards. I have the right to care or NOT care for stuff that is offered in the formats. From the beginning, my priorities have been: Video Quality, Audio Quality, seamless branching(for the possibility of having different cuts of the same movie on the same disc...). And that's all. There is no double standard here as I never cared for the other stuff. To this day, I've not touched that POTC BD-game on my PS3. I buy DVD, and now BD movies to have them at hand when I am in the mood to watch them, not to expend time over and over again with a disc, in the hopes the next time I put it in the players, there is something new to watch(and that is not guaranteed either)...

Allan

So it's October 15th, and only about 2 weeks to go till the BD 1.1 deadline, and still no BD 1.1 players.

BD 1.0 players still look to be the only option on the horizon...

And this is going to stop you from buying a Blu Ray player? Come on, you know you really want one, otherwise you wouldn't be worried so much about them.

And this is going to stop you from buying a Blu Ray player? Come on, you know you really want one, otherwise you wouldn't be worried so much about them.

His profile says he has a Samsung BD-P1000. ;)

His profile says he has a Samsung BD-P1000. ;)

Well at least he made one good decision in his equipment buying. ;)

Well at least he made one good decision in his equipment buying. ;)

At least that one stuttered through the Fox titles instead of not playing them at all. :p

:) Yes, early on in the war, a work colleague had bought it and didn't like it. As a good friend I took it off him for less than half what he paid (he now has HD DVD). So at least I could know what I was talking about when comparing the two formats.

Yes, the menus on this and other BD players are very sluggish in comparison to the HD players I have, and it did stutter a lot on one of the new Fox titles.

But I would never buy a BD 1.0 player other than the deal I got from my friend on this. Especially now that the BD 1.1 players are (supposed to be) coming.

At least that one stuttered through the Fox titles instead of not playing them at all. :p

Funny thing is that the latest update took care of that problem. Plays all the Fox titles (and anything else) just fine now.

Funny thing is that the latest update took care of that problem. Plays all the Fox titles (and anything else) just fine now.

Did they release the update for the 1000? I thought it was the 1200 only? Or was it the other way around?

OK, without having to wade through 200 posts, what players besides the Denon and LG combo are going to be 1.1 compliant? I'm looking to replace my Sammy 1200. Please, no PS3 recommendations!
J

Did they release the update for the 1000? I thought it was the 1200 only? Or was it the other way around?

Both.

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/download/supportDownDetail.do?group=mp3audiovideo&type=blu_ray&subtype=blu_raydiscplayers&model_nm=BD-P1000&mType=FM&dType=D&cttID=1191071&prd_ia_cd=03020100

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/download/supportDownDetail.do?group=&type=&subtype=&model_nm=BD-P1200&mType=FM&dType=D&cttID=1488557&prd_ia_cd=03020100

OK, without having to wade through 200 posts, what players besides the Denon and LG combo are going to be 1.1 compliant? I'm looking to replace my Sammy 1200. Please, no PS3 recommendations!
J

*crickets*

Both.

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/download/supportDownDetail.do?group=mp3audiovideo&type=blu_ray&subtype=blu_raydiscplayers&model_nm=BD-P1000&mType=FM&dType=D&cttID=1191071&prd_ia_cd=03020100

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/download/supportDownDetail.do?group=&type=&subtype=&model_nm=BD-P1200&mType=FM&dType=D&cttID=1488557&prd_ia_cd=03020100

Cool! Nothing on the LG yet though, right? I actually thought they'd get to it first.

Like ... for example?In terms of technical advantages capacity, bandwidth, durability, and BD-J.


And who says I don't own a Blu-ray player exactly?You have said that in the past and has that changed or are you just being confrontational?


Wow ... now you're smearing me.What I said is true and it was made without any insult so what is wrong with what I said? Explain in detail.


Seriously, it's ironic that you bring this up when you have done exactly this in the format battle thread (and others) over and over.How typical jdg345 that you use a personal attack against me instead of discussing what I actually said. Do you actually disagree with what I said? If so could you explain why?


In fact, you just used the term, "HD DVD Supporters" above when in the Format Battle thread, you went on for what seemed like *pages* about how I shouldn't use the term 'BDA Supporter' because it contributes to tribalism which you felt there was already too much of.Blu-ray is a video format the BDA is an organization and I have explained to you before why I dislike the term BDA supporter. Also wasn't it like 5 posts that I made partly because I thought you agreed with me with the first answer that you gave and partly because you argued with me about that term? You have brought this issue up more often than that to attack me with and I find it amazing that you took such offense at a benign request.

*crickets*

... or silence before the storm?

Both Sony (S500) and, apparently, Panasonic (30AK) are releasing new players. Neither has announced 1.1, but doing so would make a lot of people postpone purchasing decisions. So I personally wouldn't be surprised if these turn out to be firmware upgradeable. Somehow it starts feeling like Oct 31 is kick-off day.

In terms of technical advantages capacity, bandwidth, durability, and BD-J.

Except Capacity and Bandwidth benefits so far have only been ... well ... technical paper advantages showing no real-world benefits. As far as Durability, HD DVD uses the same setup DVD does and that has been fine for a decade. In fact, based on Insider information, it seems that the spin coating is limiting capacity on discs for Blu-ray ... I'm not sure you'd call that an advantage. As for BD-J, I'm assuming you have hopes for what it can do in the future? Because certainly today the advantage goes to HDi.


You have said that in the past and has that changed or are you just being confrontational?


You have stated as fact several times that I don't own a Blu-ray player. I'm just wondering where you received your information?


What I said is true and it was made without any insult so what is wrong with what I said? Explain in detail.


You suggested I have a double standard.


How typical jdg345 that you use a personal attack against me instead of discussing what I actually said. Do you actually disagree with what I said? If so could you explain why?


What I said is true and it was made without any insult so what is wrong with what I said? Explain in detail. :rolleyes:


Blu-ray is a video format the BDA is an organization and I have explained to you before why I dislike the term BDA supporter. Also wasn't it like 5 posts that I made partly because I thought you agreed with me with the first answer that you gave and partly because you argued with me about that term? You have brought this issue up more often than that to attack me with and I find it amazing that you took such offense at a benign request.

I see ... so it's okay to support the format, but not the organization behind it?

As far as the double standards point you made ... really, all anyone needs to do is go back through the last few pages of the Format battle thread to see where Blu-ray Supporters (there, happy?) have posted opionions as fact and blatant misinformation regarding these formats and have gone completely unchallenged by you while you were quick to point out these mis-steps from others supporting HD DVD within a few posts of the same. Is it okay to allow misinformation that's beneficial to Blu-ray to spread? You seem to have taken upon this crusade to enlighten about the shortcommings of HD DVD and to immediately identify and call out speculation stated as fact ... but only when it's pro HD DVD.

In the Format Battle Thread, I even replied to certain Blu-ray supporters correcting them and posted that I wondered if you would chime in as well since it was so important for you to correct misinformation. You never did.

In fact, in this very thread, you stated, as fact, that I don't own a Blu-ray player. Yet you have no fact to back that up -- unless I should be *really* concerned and you have cameras in my home or something?

So, to make it a simple question (since you'll likely avoid and spin most of what is above):

Why is it that you only call out the HD DVD Supporters for stating speculation as fact and do not also correct the Blu-ray Supporters for doing the same? The same goes for misinformation.

I'm sure you're going to spin this around and say things like:

I think that what is happening here is that you are taking something I said and saying it in such I way that I did not mean for it to be said. I understand that you probably just made a mistake and I am okay with that but what I really wanted to do is to be clear so that we can clean up some of the misinformation and why do you think that I think these things when clearly I have stated something entirely different?

... or silence before the storm?

Both Sony (S500) and, apparently, Panasonic (30AK) are releasing new players. Neither has announced 1.1, but doing so would make a lot of people postpone purchasing decisions. So I personally wouldn't be surprised if these turn out to be firmware upgradeable. Somehow it starts feeling like Oct 31 is kick-off day.

Paidgeek confirmed in the Insider's Thread that the S500 is Profile 1.0 only and does not appear to be upgradeable to Profile 1.1. Ironically he did so just after debating a statement that a bunch of Profile 1.0 players were being released just within a month of the new standard mandate.

I have no information on the Panasonic 30AK.

... or silence before the storm?

Both Sony (S500) and, apparently, Panasonic (30AK) are releasing new players. Neither has announced 1.1, but doing so would make a lot of people postpone purchasing decisions. So I personally wouldn't be surprised if these turn out to be firmware upgradeable. Somehow it starts feeling like Oct 31 is kick-off day.
We'll see. I'm skeptical. The S500 is coming out "on or about Oct. 31". I'm betting it won't be compliant.
J

We'll see. I'm skeptical. The S500 is coming out "on or about Oct. 31". I'm betting it won't be compliant.
J

I noted above; Paidgeek confirmed it would be only Profile 1.0. ;)

btw, Richard, here's a case in point:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11918098#post11918098

You were quick to respond to xboxboi's post where Paramount stated that the reason they dropped Blu-ray was for the technical advantages of HD DVD. You were quick to state that he was wrong and that you could interpret what was said by Alan Bell (Paramount CIO) differently -- though I don't see how. Then you go on and on to say that Alan's reason wasn't really what did it, what really did it was some payoff -- which has been debunked numerous times.

In any case, when Woodshed posted an entire thread about Paramount dropping lossless due to capacity issues, you didn't correct that. And Woodshed's "fact" came from a reviewer that said the studio said -- no format quote or statement from Paramount.

So why not correct Woodshed's statement yet quickly jump on xboxboi's?

Why are you giving more credence to a reviewer who says the studio said (without providing any other detail) than what the CIO of a company is saying? :confused:

btw, Richard, here's a case in point:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11918098#post11918098

You were quick to respond to xboxboi's post where Paramount stated that the reason they dropped Blu-ray was for the technical advantages of HD DVD. You were quick to state that he was wrong and that you could interpret what was said by Alan Bell (Paramount CIO) differently -- though I don't see how. Then you go on and on to say that Alan's reason wasn't really what did it, what really did it was some payoff -- which has been debunked numerous times.

In any case, when Woodshed posted an entire thread about Paramount dropping lossless due to capacity issues, you didn't correct that. And Woodshed's "fact" came from a reviewer that said the studio said -- no format quote or statement from Paramount.

So why not correct Woodshed's statement yet quickly jump on xboxboi's?

Why are you giving more credence to a reviewer who says the studio said (without providing any other detail) than what the CIO of a company is saying? :confused:

It has not been debunked. Only that the payoff wasn't all in cash.:p

It has not been debunked. Only that the payoff wasn't all in cash.:p

:p

Except Capacity and Bandwidth benefits so far have only been ... well ... technical paper advantages showing no real-world benefits.Obviously you believe that but I believe those advantages do provide real world benefits.


As far as Durability, HD DVD uses the same setup DVD does and that has been fine for a decade.Meaning you simply don't care about that advantage in the same way that ninjanki doesn't care about certain advantages of HD DVD.


As for BD-J, I'm assuming you have hopes for what it can do in the future? Because certainly today the advantage goes to HDi.Certain BD-J games have been made that have no equivalent with HDi from what I have read. Amir has mocked them as nothing more than "cell phone games" but from what I can see it shows that BD-J is more versatile than HDi.


You have stated as fact several times that I don't own a Blu-ray player. I'm just wondering where you received your information?Technically I stated it as a fact once in this thread and I only did that because you used to say that you were HD DVD exclusive (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=10976906&postcount=1059) and if you now own a Blu-ray player than simply say so.


You suggested I have a double standard.No, I didn't. I was replying to Lee Stewart and I didn't say anything negative about you in that post. Read it carefully and you will see that is true.


What I said is true and it was made without any insult so what is wrong with what I said?BS, you accused me of having used double standards many times which is both a false accusation and rude. That is a personal attack so don't be surprised that I took it as one.


I see ... so it's okay to support the format, but not the organization behind it?I have explained this to you before (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11593762&postcount=3810) and just read my explanation and disagree with it again.


As far as the double standards point you made ... really, all anyone needs to do is go back through the last few pages of the Format battle thread to see where Blu-ray Supporters (there, happy?) have posted opionions as fact and blatant misinformation regarding these formats and have gone completely unchallenged by you while you were quick to point out these mis-steps from others supporting HD DVD within a few posts of the same.Strawman argument, and I barely have enough time to challenge a hundredth of the posts that are made against Blu-ray so of course I pick and choose the posts I respond to and from what I have seen so do you.


Is it okay to allow misinformation that's beneficial to Blu-ray to spread? You seem to have taken upon this crusade to enlighten about the shortcommings of HD DVD and to immediately identify and call out speculation stated as fact ... but only when it's pro HD DVD.LOL, I can't even make a thread criticizing the worst propaganda website in this format war (hdnowonline) without having it get closed down by trolling within a day so you vastly overestimate what I am capable of doing.


In the Format Battle Thread, I even replied to certain Blu-ray supporters correcting them and posted that I wondered if you would chime in as well since it was so important for you to correct misinformation. You never did.You were baiting me (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=11608096&postcount=3849) with those comments so don't pretend that you were only asking me for help :rolleyes:.


So, to make it a simple question (since you'll likely avoid and spin most of what is above):I'm sure you're going to spin this around and say things like:
...Honestly jdg345 you are one of the rudest posters I know of on this forum.


Why is it that you only call out the HD DVD Supporters for stating speculation as fact and do not also correct the Blu-ray Supporters for doing the same? The same goes for misinformation.First off that isn't true and I have corrected misinformation and speculation for both HD formats. Now I do spend most of my time defending Blu-ray but that is because I support it and I think you have no right to criticize me for that.

I'm done now ... most folks can clearly see what is going on here, so I'll happily let you have the last word. :D

btw, Richard, here's a case in point:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11918098#post11918098

You were quick to respond to xboxboi's post where Paramount stated that the reason they dropped Blu-ray was for the technical advantages of HD DVD. Prove to me that in that article Paramount stated that one of the reasons they dropped Blu-ray was because of the Blu-ray player profiles. Show me where in that article that was said.


You were quick to state that he was wrong and that you could interpret what was said by Alan Bell (Paramount CIO) differently -- though I don't see how.I didn't need to interpret what he said since he didn't say what xboi stated in that thread title. Even markrubin said that based on the thread title it should have been in the rumors thread.


Then you go on and on to say that Alan's reason wasn't really what did it, what really did it was some payoff -- which has been debunked numerous times.If you have any proof that refutes what the NYT and WSJ reported than post it.


In any case, when Woodshed posted an entire thread about Paramount dropping lossless due to capacity issues, you didn't correct that. And Woodshed's "fact" came from a reviewer that said the studio said -- no format quote or statement from Paramount.Would you mind posting a link to that thread so I can see for myself what he said?


Why are you giving more credence to a reviewer who says the studio said (without providing any other detail) than what the CIO of a company is saying?When exactly did I say that?

Done ... :D

Richard, this thread is 2 weeks away from becoming the total and truth fact ;)

Sony (as you have posted in the News thread) has quiet and low profilely slotted their two new BD players for sale at Sonystyle.com ;) . Guess what, one of the 1.0 profile player is priced at $1,299 ;)

Richard, this thread is 2 weeks away from becoming the total and truth fact ;)

Sony (as you have posted in the News thread) has quiet and low profilely slotted their two new BD players for sale at Sonystyle.com ;) . Guess what, one of the 1.1 profile player is priced at $1,299 ;)

Don't you mean 1.0? Or is the ES2000 Profile 1.1?

Don't you mean 1.0? Or is the ES2000 Profile 1.1?

Both the S500 and the ES2000 were announced at IFA. At that show Daewoo said they would be the first BD player to be 1.1/2.0 compliant . . . and Sony did not contradict them.

NO mention of 1.1 or 2.0 was ever made by Sony at IFA about these two new Sony BD players.

If they are streeted on or before 10/31 then they do not have to be 1.1/2.0 compliant.

Don't you mean 1.0? Or is the ES2000 Profile 1.1?

sowwy. my mistake. edited :o

Well - here we are - 10/22 - a little more than 1 week away from the deadline - and still no 1.1 players released.

And on a sidenote - the new BD WB version of T3 will not be a 1.1 IME but yet another dual encode like The Departed and Crank.

So no true IME movie and no true 1.1 player. Has there been a release date for the Sony S500 and the ES2000?

Do we even know if BD 1.1 discs will play on BD 1.0 players without a FW upgrade?

Well - here we are - 10/22 - a little more than 1 week away from the deadline - and still no 1.1 players released.



Were you going to buy one if there were? :rolleyes:

Were you going to buy one if there were? :rolleyes:

Not yet - but I would never consider a BD player until it was 1.1/2.0 compliant.